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Nice close-up tetratech,

I have noticed it before, but in this shot I was reminded of it - one cannot say that you have only a few fish either. What did you say? Around 40? And on average all of your fish are quite a bit bigger than mine (I would assume 1 card is like 2 espei).

About the triangle, let me see if I got that straight. You plan to keep the shape like my yellow lines. If so, the area I referred to as becoming "less interesting" is the one in the orange circle.

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Lines and Circle

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Let's see:

23 Cards
8 Otos
5 Pencils
4 Black Neons (moved from 12g)
4 Rummys
2 Rainbows
2 Rams

48 Fish Total
8 are otos, 5 pencils (tiny)


With the addition of the rainbows and the black neons I'm definitely pushing it. But remember light is the driver. I have less of it for algae to utilize. I also keep hitting on the feeding. When I lift rocks or plants there is almost no mess. That to me is an indicator of the waste level in the tank.

I could see from the pic why you see triangle, but with a few snips this is what my tank is really about:




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Yeah,

That type of mound makes more sense, given the current left side.

Fish:

23 Cards (x 1.5 per Espei = 34 Espei)
8 Otos (have 6, plus 2 Espei)
5 Pencils (6 Espei)
4 Black Neons (moved from 12g) (8 Espei)
4 Rummys (6 Espei)
2 Rainbows (my 3 Rainbows)
2 Rams (my 2 Pearls)

So this means: all others than the Espei are covered, plus 50 Espei. Plus 53 extra gallons of water in my tank for the additional maybe 40 Espei. Basically, I have less fish than you do

I know that's not good math, but hey, makes me feel better

Ingo

EDIT: uh, forgot the Apsitos and the 3 additional Rainbows in a few weeks

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, I don't know if 1 card equals 1.5 espei in terms of waste. As I said it's also a matter of feeding, plus mass, plus light. Mabye because 90% of my substrate is covered with fert hungry wisteria it all get's sucked up quickly.

Anyway did some add'l trimming to get this:



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Your tank looks great. I have no idea how you cut to shape like you guys do. Do you trim while the tank is full? Otherwise, I assume the tall stems just bend over. Must make it even harder to shape the triangle when you cut from the bottom (although I usually get to do a couple of wisteria trims from the top, before I have to do that).

I like the low wisteria in the front & that's how I hope mine goes. Guess that means frequent removal & triming from the bottom?

Anyway, looking good.

Cheers
TW

Ah, the mound

Yeah, I that looks nice, now simply go ahead and freeze-frame the tank

Two things though, one that I thought about but forgot to mention, the other one from this picture:

1) A assume you noticed that the branch on the right of the main group is pretty much consumed by the plants.

2) What happened to the rock that you just introduced us to? Was this picture taken from a different angle or why can I not see it anymore?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

Thanks. A little tip on the wisteria. If you want it to stay low longer, when you trim and replant, replant the top on like a 45 degree angle. It will be more likely to grow roots along the stem and will anchor itself in the substrate and grow along it. That's pretty much how I spread mine. It's basically layer upon layer of horizontal growth.

LF,
The branches and rock at this point look O.K. but are pretty much marking the spot where longer branches and a bigger rock will go. I'll have to trim more to keep branches visible.

The pic is taken down low so you don't see the rock (Not tall enough). I think the other pic was taken higher up.

Here's a pic showing the edge of my mound with Rotala R, Rotala W and the rock that was hidden in previous pic.
The taller wisteria in the back behind the rock is not rooted below. It is growing from the right alway across the back alittle off the substrate.



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I wasn't going to post any more pics tonite, but I thought these were pretty good.

First since we've been talking otos:



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And a nice shot of one of my Bosemani Rainbows. These guys have colored up nicely already:



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Looking Good Tetra, Looking Good.

I always enjoy seeing your tank pictures.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Wow tetratech,

Somehow I did not see this fish pictures until this morning. Did you secretly aquire a new camera? These are really cloe-close-ups . The Oto in particular is frightening large in the picture.

Nice shot on the rainbow as well, although I have to say that he doesn't look very happy to see you out there with the camera

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Rick,
Thanks! Always nice to hear comments.

LF,
That was my first reaction, hugh. Do you know there really is a giant oto species? I saw them one time in a LFS. Not very attractive. No same camera, I've discovered the "super macro mode". The limitation of my current camera (Canon S2 IS) is film speed. Only goes up to 400.



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No, I have never heard about a giant Oto. I wonder if they just gave that fish some name based on similar features (or behaviors) but basically it is a completely different species.

Super Macro Mode - - up to 400, I guess that would be fast enough for pictures of your snails .

No really, nice shots, once again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I can't confirm that it was an actual oto species, but it did have the same triangular head. Speaking of otos have you ever seen the zebra variety at your LFS. I did one time and wish I would have bought them.



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No, I have never seen them, cute.

I wonder if they exist in nature of if they are some form of special breed only available from fish farms.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Beautiful pictures - I have serious camera envy. I've never seen those striped otos - they are very nice.

Cheers
TW

Good Morning!

I meant to discuss this some time ago. What does it mean when you have no snails in your tank. I mean I've had snails that obviously came with plants, but they simply don't survive in my tank. I don't have any snail eaters either.




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Oh yes tetratech, you do have snail eaters

Your Rams eat the snails, and lots of fish will eat snail eggs. When I crush my snails in the 29 the Platies are all over them. When I had my Apsitos in the QT, in about 3 weeks I could not find any snails anymore. Now, that they are in the big tank, the QT has snails again (but not too many) and it appears that the 125 has much less.

I am also sure that water conditions, like low GH, have an influence on snails, less calcium means weaker shells and earlier demise. Also, if you had (which I think you don't) MTS, they would eat other small snails.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am also sure that water conditions, like low GH, have an influence on snails, less calcium means weaker shells and earlier demise

I wasn't even thinking of that, but your probably right. I know my water has a very low GH and I've differently seen white snail shells around.

I guess my rams could be eating somes snails in the jungle of wisteria, but I've never witnessed them doing so.

Here's a pic from this morning taken thru the side showing the plants "waking up"


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Holy (Fill in your option)

Now here is a totally surprising view of your tank. I would have never guessed that it is so narrow and how steep the incline to the background plants is.

Nice visual tetratech,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Holy (Fill in your option)

Holy "Wisteria Monster"

Anyway some updated pics. You'll notice two things. I've added more riccia to the right front and I've upped my po4 dosing while reducing no3 somewhat. Plants look more red I think?






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Full view from above:



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Full view from straight ahead:

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Looks so lovely!!!
What about some carpet plants

Great job tetratech!!!

JQW,
I think thats the wisteria and riccia's job.

Tetra,
Tank looks really nice as normal.

I think things are looking more red too. Are you still adding higher iron levels? How much have you been messing with your levels?

I am working on trying to get some more color in my tank. I had a lot of green in the old set up but I want to mix it up a bit. Still not quite on a normal schedual after coming back yet...



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I also think that it looks more red than at an earlier stage.

So you say you up P and lower N. What do you think its current proportion would be?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

JQW,
Thanks for the comments. As wings said my riccia and wisteria are pretty much my carpet.

Wings,
I have stopped dosing FE on a regular basis. I just wasn't seeing much out of it. I'm still dosing Flourish 3 times a week, but the red now is from higher P.

So you say you up P and lower N. What do you think its current proportion would be?

Well let's see. For the longest time I was dosing 10 to 1:

0.50 tsp no3
0.05 tsp po4

As my mass increased I went to:

0.75 tsp no3
0.08(approx.) tsp po4

Still a 10 to 1 ratio, now with my new dosing:

0.50 tsp no3
0.10 tsp po4

So I'm at 5 to 1, which is probably what alot of people do anyway, but I wasn't.

I'm deciding whether I should increase it to:

.75 tsp no3
.15 tsp po4

Either way I'm dong things sloooowly

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Either way I'm dong things sloooowly

Good man! Thanks for the info!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks tetratech,

0.50 tsp no3 is what I intend to dose the new 40G, given that I dose 1.5tsp on the 125 and this one is a third of that size.

How much po4 I dose has yet to be seen, I currently dose 1/8tsp (what's that, like 0.125tsp) on the big tank. A third of that would be 1/24 of a tsp, or 0.0417tsp ( how much is a smidgeon again? )

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
When you guys figure out how much to dose a 40G tank, then
I'll know about how much to dose my 30. Its a nightmare
without a set of scales from my chemistry class!
I'm thinking that measuring spoons just arn't gonna make
it! Guess I'll have to give them back to Susan...

Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Well if we were in Europe we would all have scales bug most of use are not there or from there. On a side note, when I was in a college chem class they got a little funny about letting use bring the scales home. I asked my instructor about it and he said that they tend to get used for drugs a lot... Yay for being a small town fishing kind of guy.

BTW does LF have a thread running for his 40G?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

0.50 tsp no3
0.05 tsp po4

That was a very small amount of PO4.

I must admit I never sweat the dosing. Very un-scientific. Don't even use a measuring spoon. Just get a rough idea dip the spoon, toss in the tank. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

The tank looks good tetra, looks redder to me.

One little thing though, I'd love to see some pics with "proper" light.I find your photos very dark. Tends to make things look a bit lifeless, can't see the fish or any interaction going on

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

One little thing though, I'd love to see some pics with "proper" light

Yes, people have said that. Probably because when I take most of my pics it's in the evening after the second bulb has gone out, so it's only lite by one 96watt bulb. Of course if I forced more light it would look more alive. Since you asked, here's a slightly brighter shot.



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What's the matter tetratech,

Did Bensaf's comment cause you a sleepless night?

Well, with loads of light or not, your tank is still beautiful .

One day I will have a nice looking tank as well.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Did Bensaf's comment cause you a sleepless night

Look who's talking! Oh Bensaf is just nervous because the USA is going to take the cup this year. I guess in order to please Bensaf I'll have to invest in $10,000 worth of professional photography equipment and have a fan blow ripples across the surface of my tank.



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because the USA is going to take the cup this year

Good joke, tetratech

See, that is the beauty of this hobby. Even if your tank looks good, there is always at least one person who has something to nag about . This is what drives us, what makes us go the extra mile (although I personally have quite a few miles to go).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good joke, tetratech!
I'm not laughing

Well Bensaf has just given me a reason to post a whole bevy of new pics.

I'm off to Home Depot to buy a fan

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Your pictures are always welcome, tetratech.

And, if I may suggest, don't get a fan, get a wave maker .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks littlefish,

Here's some more "lively brighter" pics to please "My Master" and others who might find them interesting:



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Closeup shot of the Main Area and Eco Beach:

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Some of the main inhabitants:



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Another shot:



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This pic was taken around 8pm on Sunday. I haven't done a water change since last Sunday. I'll have to do my weekly wc tomorrow.



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Oh Bensaf is just nervous because the USA is going to take the cup this year.

The day USA wins a World Cup I'll eat my plants. There's more chance of Paris Hilton winning a Nobel Prize for science Even though your guys had a really successful qualifying campaign against such sporting superpowers as Jamaica and Costa Rica

Anyway I wasn't being critical of the tank I justed wanted some brighter pics
And the tank does look much better in the brighter photos - there's fish and life going on. Really nice job

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

The day USA wins a World Cup I'll eat my plants

Well, now I really would like the US to win, but Bensaf will have to send us pictures of moss stuck between his teeth then .

Tetratech, looking very nice, bright, full, colorful, and any other compliment that I just cannot come up with right now

I guess your camera is a tad to slow to get a clear shot of the zooming Cardinals, you somehow will have to try to convince them to stay still for a monent

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, now I really would like the US to win, but Bensaf will have to send us pictures of moss stuck between his teeth then

I think Bensaf is really worried because he knows some of his lush plants are quite edible so it's not much of a bet.

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Czech Republic 3 - USA 0

so it's not much of a bet.

Well you got that darn right

Guess I won't have to dig up recipes for a Ludwigia salad with Riccia on the side for a while

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Czech Republic 3 - USA 0


Were just getting warmed up, we'll take the Italians and be on our way.

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Were just getting warmed up

- They better get warmed up quickly, otherwise they are all hot when it is time to pack the suitcases and to go home .

On the other hand - Bensaf, how did the Irish do so far?

BTW, if I had to put money on a winner, it would be Brazil, as much as I would like the Germans to win.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Beautiful fish & plant pics Tetratech.

BTW, you wouldn't believe the fuss being made here because Australia beat Japan in their first game - but I guess the rest of you would probably say - "Oh, I didn't know Australia sent a team?" Yep, I think we qualified last (or just about) & from the fuss here, you'd think we'd won the series, not a game.

Cheers
TW

"Oh, I didn't know Australia sent a team?"

Robyn,

You underestimate the importance of soccer in the world. Of course I know you have a team there and most certainly did I know that you won, with 3 goals in the last 5 minutes. That is a reason to celebrate, give your fishies some special treats

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh, you wouldn't believe the big deal it is here. Apparently, we haven't even qualified since sometime back in 70's. When we qualified, you'd have thought that we'd won the whole cup then & there. One of our newspapers today had a headline saying something along the lines of "Australia's greatest sporting moment" or some such comment. So, everyone here is very excited.

So yes, my fishies will have to get a special treat. But this fishy here, is trying real hard qualify next time himself. http://assets.shns.com/SH06A250TRICKFISH.jpg
I guess this is just trick photography.

Cheers
TW

Robyn that is a really great pic!

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Isn't photoshop great!

Tetra,
How big are you rainbows? I wish I could get a picture of mine for you. They are really great fish. Way too fast though! I tend to get wet when its feeding time.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

My rainbows are about 2.5 inches. You could get an idea in this pic when comparing to the rummynoses? These guys seemed to have settled in nicely and I like them. They are voracious eaters as you know so I basically have to spoon feed my rams (net method as LF knows)



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Thought this was a nice colorful pic showing alot of fish activity:



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Oh and this is the wisteria salad that Bensaf is going to eat when the USA wins the cup:

It really does look pretty appetizing, don't you think?





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Oh and this is the wisteria salad that Bensaf is going to eat when the USA wins the cup:

It does look rather tasty, but I doubt I'll get to sample it. All kidding aside , of the games I've seen The US have been the weakest team I've seen so far. I thought that honor would go to Trinidad or Togo. The USA team were shockingly bad against the Czechs. One thing's for sure they can only improve from here on out.

USa has a deceptively high rating in the FIFA rankings, I think they are top 10 team, but if analysed and you look at the opponents they have played it's a very deceptive record.They really haven't come up against any opponents of quality, especially in their qualifying rounds.

Ingo,
I know I asked for that, we ain't there this year sadly
We got screwed over by the worlds dumbest referee and an Israeli that fell to the ground screaming like he'd been shot by a Hezbollah everytime somebody looked crooked at him, cheating git. A piece of Thierry Henry genius was our final undoing after getting the better of France for 2 games. Shame we have a pretty useful team, even better then our last World Cup team (who if you remember gave Germany a pretty rough time ).

We'll be back.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

They are voracious eaters

Yeah, feeding my rather hesitant Apistos is pretty hard with rainbows in the way. Yesterday, one of them in the QT made such a splash that all food in the container got wet.

And yes, your Wisteria salad does look very appetizing, if it wouldn't be for that one line of poop.

Bensaf - Irland is my favorite underdog in Europe. Whenever the Germans are already out I cheer for Irland. Today is another Germany game, we will see how that goes. I would say 3-1 Germany.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And yes, your Wisteria salad does look very appetizing, if it wouldn't be for that one line of poop.

You amaze me, but the poop is seasoning.



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yuk




Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well ya see, I was in the store and yada, yada, yada.....I ended up with two blue rams. I guess it's my turn to try.

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Nice fish Tetra,

I hope you have better luck than LF with them. They seem to be a little easier to sex than LF's.

It also seems that you have been buying a lot of new stuff at random latly. Must be all that

yada, yada, yada.....

stuff.

More fishing time for me. I am out....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Very nice tetratech

With all my heart do I wish you way more luck than I had so far. If you fail then it for sure cannot be bad tank conditions as yours is very settled.

And I see you got a pair there

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks guys, I caught these myself. We'll see how they do. So far I see no aggression from the bolivian rams that have been in the tank a very long time.

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Couple more shots:



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One more:



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Very nice fish. Good luck with them.

Cheers
TW

Very nice tetratech,

Me wonders now how your opinion on Bolivians will change (in regards of beauty) .

In a related topic, I was wondering what is known about interbreeding between Bolivians and Germans (Rams, I mean).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Me wonders now how your opinion on Bolivians will change (in regards of beauty)

Remember I've had blue rams before, one for as long as 6 to 7 months. Without a doubt the colors are more vibrant overall, although the bolivians have those radiant red trim to the tale and they do color up nicely before breeding. I don't think bolivians and blues will mate.

Oh well, another riccia moocher:

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Just eatting a snail or two I am sure. Even if it was eatting the vegies you have plenty of it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yeah,

I am with Wings. Do you actually see strips of Riccia hanging out of their mouths? Very often, I find that snails love to hang out in the shrubs, like mosses etc. Your Ram may have well found one of them in there and decided that she needs some meat in her diet

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tank is still looking great tetratech. Nice blue rams, we just got a nice batch of those in our store.

Hows the SW tank coming along?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty, I'll keep my fingers crossed with the rams.
I'm definitely doing the sw tank. Just got really busy with work, etc. Hoping to have it up within a few weeks.



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I'm definitely doing the sw tank

Well, I hope that my rather limited input in the upcoming SW thread will not be interpreted as a lack of interest, but I only can say "how pretty" so often.

That's what happened to me with Matty's thread, all I can comment on are the nice pictures (and algae ).

Good luck tetratech,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, I hope that my rather limited input in the upcoming SW thread will not be interpreted as a lack of interest, but I only can say "how pretty" so often.

Understood LF!

Well Day 3 with the ram pair and all is well. Yes that's LF that's GSA on the glass and you could stop laughing. I've been lazy cleaning it.




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I wasn't laughing

Actually, I was just about to write a response yesterday when out router died .

I am glad to hear that the Rams are still doing fine, and I hope it will stay that way.

Ingo

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Well if these rams do O.K. I have a theory, but I'll wait to see how they do.

BTW - USA was robbed the other day against Italy by some psyco ref. Now it will take a miracle to advance

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Now it will take a miracle to advance

It always did

Are you aware that the US has not yet even shot a goal?

Tank related: I cannot wait to hear the theory. If it isn't all too wild then I may try it out.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Are you aware that the US has not yet even shot a goal?

We did score, but the psycho ref took it away. It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion. I should really move to S.America where the soccer is great and the fish aren't bad either.

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Very pretty rams tetra! Great pics too. Hope they do well for ya.

And I second LFs post about commenting on your soon-to-be SW tank. I'll also be adding "oo, that looks great!" comments, along with the occasional remark about how SW folks just cultivate flouresent fungus and blobs etc., not as nice as plant tanks etc. You get the drift...

And by the way:

when soccer is a 5th sport here

\

Football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, golf, hockey, Indy car - soccer doesn't get a sniff in the states professionally at least. Popular in schools and such but not at a main level. I know what you mean.

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Back in the saddle!

Football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, golf, hockey, Indy car - soccer doesn't get a sniff in the states professionally at least. Popular in schools and such but not at a main level. I know what you mean.

So are you saying soccer is the 7th sport, right in front of shuffleboard

Anyway things for popping in and the comments. Enjoying the rams so far and I'm thrilled that there is absolutely no aggression with the bolivans (until they breed anyway) I guess your living up to your name. How bout a pic once in a while. Cats got your camera.



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Couple of updates:

- Trimmed everything and cut every stem of the aromatica and removed bottoms and replanted tops.
- Added a few more riccia covered stones.
- Changed dw pieces slightly by either cutting some and moving around other ones.

I am really amazed by how little gets stirred up when I remove plants and rocks. As I mentioned I removed every stem of the aromatica and there were some pretty big root systems and very little came out of the eco. I think this is part of the reason I don't have algae issues but it's also a reason why many of my fish are eating the riccia - they're switching to salad since the beef isn't available. And yes I saw the rams sucking it down. There are no snails in my 72g.

Here's a few tank view from today:



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Here's a compare shot from 9 days ago and today after the trim. You could see the changes I spoke of:



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I haven't really fiqured out what makes the rotala and other plants look red. I've pretty much stopped dosing Iron and I've been dosing my po4, but sometimes it doesn't look that red. The last week or so it has though. Maybe there's a longer delay than I thought in getting the red color to show. Here's a good shot of the rotala currently:



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Well whatever you are doing the Rotala looks much healthier then ever before.

Ok, that was my token effort at staying on topic.

Now for the important stuff !

It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion. I should really move to S.America where the soccer is great and the fish aren't bad either.

It sounds like you are that rarity - an American whounderstands and appreciates football ( I hate calling it soccer, it's football, don't you guys insist on calling a game, where the ball is in the hands and thrown far more often then it's kicked, football).

The reason why it's a poor 5th in the US and a religion everywhere else probably says a lot about American attitudes to sport and the American psyche in general.

Americans have a rather strange attitude to sport. There seems to an obsession with winning and statistics. For a start tied games seem to be an abhoration to Americans
There always has to a winner and winning seems to be everything rather then the actual joy of playing and the manner in which a game was played.
High scores seem to be a requirement for US sports too. A lot of Americans don't seem able to get their head around a 1-0 scoreline.baseball would be the possible exception here.
Never understood why Basketball is so popular there. Any game that has a losing score of 80 or 90 points is a bit ridiculous to me ( a bit like any "sport" where you get points for artistic interpretation is not really a sport in my book). To me it's just a game where you run down one end throw the ball at the net , score or miss , now it's your turn to run to the other end and you throw, score or miss ! It always struck me as a game you didn't so much win as whoever missed the least won. The court is the size of a footbal penalty area yet these athletes have to rest every 10 mins!? Good god it's not like the game is even played at any kind of real pace !
The obsession with statistics is another thing I don't get. We don't bother much with statistics in football, except for someones scoring record. Statistics are meaningless when you try to apply to a sweet defense cutting pass, how can you match a statistic to the movement and ball control of a Platini, a Maradonna, a Cruyff ?
I wonder if these scores and obsessions with stats are a reflection of the fast food society, the quick fix, the low attention span, the need for bigger more powerful things then the other guy?
All of this I think will always keep football way down the pecking order in the US. The game just doesn't fit with the American way. Maybe if the US started winning soccer tournaments that would change. There has to be a reason why a baseball played between a bunch of US cities and a couple of Canadian one is called the World Series ?!
But it's Catch 22 - it'll never gain poularity til you start winning but you'll never win until it's given more attention.

But it's ok the rest of liking having at least one thing we can do better then America

BTW, I should add, in these senstitive times, none of this should be considered American knocking. It's just observation on the differences. I like and respect Americans, at their best they have a bravery and compassion that is unmatched. Shame they can't play football for crap

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion

It's the same in Australia. Really, only the little kids play soccer here - the big boys play AFL & NRL which are both football games where the ball is in the hand most of the time. From what I gather, our Aussie socceroos have to play for overseas teams for their professional soccer career. Other than for the world cup, soccer can't capture the crowd here. Our team has to be called home every now then to form the socceroos, when they're called to play for Australia. My son played soccer though as a youngster & he still prefers it to NRL.

Cheers
TW

Well tetratech,

I think your tank looks very nicely, even after having received a major trim. I like the addition of the new Riccia, it makes the center part look less artificial and more like naturally grown.

You say you actually cut the driftwood? Just some clipping or big chunks?

On to soccer:

While Bensaf has a few points that I agree with, I have a few opinions on popularity and such myself:

- Bluntly, soccer is not as popular than other sports because it doesn't have any breaks to show commericals. If the Media in a TV obsessed nation would pick it up big time then it could catapult the sport way up that list.

- I agree on most other points though.

- The World Series, as much as I know, has a different meaning to the word "World" as I think to remember that this was some dude's name. But I am sure the Americans among us can clarify.

That's it for now, have to get ready to chear for a team that actually shoots goals

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Bensaf
Well thanks for the Rotala comments

I guess I know how to push your buttons to get you back in my thread.
Anyway at the risk of sounding unpatriotic I do agree with most of your comments. My son play's travel soccer and his coaches always applaud the goal scorer but I see very little attention given to the kid that setup the drive and the kid that executed the sweetest of passes to make it happen.

We can get into a whole debate on what's a "sport" and what's an "activity" but we would be way off topic for a long time. They are moving toward a true "World Series" in baseball now. I find it very difficult to watch baseball because of the soft cap that allows teams like the Yankees to pretty much get anyone they want. So it's not an even close to an even playing field.

I do disagree with you on basketball. Although I am not a hugh basketball fan it is quite a workout. Maybe because it's indoors or because you have 5 big guys trying to get free in a very small space so they have to always be moving.

I think you have to give the Americans some credit playing with 9 players against Italy's 10 and earning a tie. By the way the Italians played very dirty throwing elbows, etc.

It's funny cause I've often mentioned to people your comments about the "World" Series and American Football being referred to as Football. Compared to baseball it's football. We really are a cocky bunch.

LF,
Thanks for the comments. The riccia is really fun to work with. I was able to split some of my thicker pieces into thinner ones.

Don't forget soccer was popular here in the days of Pele when they were getting 60,000 people in the stadium. I took my kid to a Metrostar game (now Red Bulls )last year and there were maybe 7,000. We got great seats though and the kids went on the field on got to meet Freddie.

My Scapes

baseball finally a sport I can talk about. The World Series being named after someone called world is an urban legend. The first Modern world series was 1903. Before that there were varying leagues and one of them had a "Series for the Champion of the United States". The newspapers back then I guess weren't much different than they are today and exaggerated a bit by calling it the World's Series and it stuck.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Day 5 with the Rams and they seem to be doing fine. Here's the female on top of her favorite grazing area.



Attached Image:


My Scapes

You can't see this from the full tank views, but my main rock area is actually two rocks creating a cave:



Attached Image:


My Scapes

Hey, where did the crushed crab go ?

No seriously, nice pictures and close-ups tetratech. I am still keeping my fingers crossed for your Rams and I only will relax them after 2 weeks have passed (that was how long my first batch a few months back survived).

Say, did you put on your famous snorkle and mask and dive in there to get this close to the rock or do you have a new macro lense?

Rick, thanks for explaing that World Series thing

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Say, did you put on your famous snorkle and mask and dive in there to get this close to the rock or do you have a new macro lense

Remember super-macro mode. Anyway the crushed crab has been retired. I didn't love it and I thing it distracted from the riccia foreground.

Your last ram pair lasted 2 weeks?


My Scapes

Well after 60 something pages I thought it would be safe to throw something non planted tank related into the mix

Before we move off soccer - congrats to LF. Great performance by Germany yesterday, they were masterful in the first half, great movement and passing, 3 good goals, they pretty much dismantled Equador.

Well America is fascinating for it's contradictions. It gets an unfair rap. We Europeans tend to be a bit snotty about the 'ol US especially when it comes to culture. While, like all stereotypes, there is a grain of truth in it, it's generally unfair and and snobbish.
Without a doubt the US has produced the finest examples of almost every art form in modern history - along with some of the greatest dross ! The finest movies, literature, music and TV has come from America , hands down as good as European and in some areas far superior to anything produced in Europe. And with it came a pile of rubbish.

Hemingway, Faulkner, Wolfe, Mailer et al produced the most powerful and relevant literature ever known....and then there was Dan Brown.
In music you gave us Rock and Roll, Jazz, The Blues.........Britney Spears , the Backstreet Boys !
John Huston, Scorsese, John Ford , Orson Welles, Spielberg, every darn great movie, and not just the great entertaining ones, the stylized intelligent ones too, all came from the US.Somebody name one European movie that would make an all time top ten list (apart from maybe Lawrence of Arabia - but heck that what about an Irish guy ) and along with it some of the worst movies ever made too !
80% of American TV shows are sludge (but 80% of ALL TV shows are sludge) but when it's good it's pretty much the best - The Sopranos,24, Lost,The West Wing, Seinfeld , Cheers to name a few recent examples.

But it's these contradictions that make the place fascinating. MAybe it's something to do with the huge impact of the Irish on Americas history and heritage. The Irish have their own strange set of contradictions.

All art is a reflection of the human spirit and any society that can consistently produce the finest in so many art forms must be doing something right. But that's often overlooked these days - shamefully.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Your last ram pair lasted 2 weeks?

No - the pair that I had before the last one did. It was around the time when I started the 125G that I saw an obvious pair in the LFS and I knew I had to have them. I placed them in my 29G, which at that time was around 6 months old. After about 2 weeks we went away for 2 days and when I came back one was dead and the other minutes away from the same fate . There was no sign of illness before we left.

Bensaf, thanks for the congratulations, I sure played very hard . Now it is on to ply against Sweden, we will see if the Germans can keep up this "unusual" offensive drive, it would be nice.

Nice philosophial interlude there, bensaf . Arts as an indicator for a culture is sure important.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

When talking about sports in the US, hockey(even thought it came from Canada) never got brought up. It is so much like soccer in the aspect of scoring. I love how it is a fast game and there are not big breaks ever 3 seconds for who knows what.

On to the tank....
LF,
Whats with the crab thing?

Tetra,
Great pictures as normal! I so can't wait until I get a camera!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,
Yes you are right about the Hockey, although hockey is like a 4th sport here.

Don't know what camera your looking for, but my camera is down to like $300 from $499 when I bought it. Canon S2 IS.

My Scapes

Thinking a Canon Rebel right now. I am going to make the wife pick it out. She used to be a photo major. $300 isn't too bad to pay either. I will have to have her look into it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well, my worthless two pence:

I don't enjoy watching soccer all that much. I like the World cup because it's competition, a tournament and that's entertaining in itself.

What Bensaf said earlier about scoring drawing attention is true, and yes that in my mind is the biggest reason it's not huge in the States. That and lack of tackling And the inability (from lack of stats etc.) to make it a large sport to gamble on.

But that also rings true for nearly every major sport in the US. The true fans and true lovers of the sport will always appreciate the little things. There are a million things I love about baseball, things that would come into play regardless of scoring. Same in football - there's blocking techniques, footwork, precision of routes, line play - all things that are an essential part of the game that aren't shown on ESPN, things that take place away from the QB and wide receivers, but that are vital to their success. Fans of hockey appreciate precise passing and stellar goalie play as much as a soccer fan does.

The difference is I think in the US there's more than just sports, there's sport culture, and that's an entirely different animal. It's led by gambling of course, and that's probably one of the top 3 reasons why football has become so big - games take place once a week, 16 times per year. Tons of stats to allow you to make predictions. Then there's ESPN and the many ESPN channels, magazines etc all meant to attract the casual fan to come to a game and spend money. That's where soccer (and hockey, truth be told) fall out of favor with US fans. We as true fans of our favorite sports can appreciate effort and skill, especially if you've ever played these sports. Effort doesn't make the highlight reels. Scoring does.

So in the end it ties back to what Bensaf also said, about a lot of great cultural things coming out of the states and a lot of crud - sport as a commodity, a piece of media to be inflated and sold is one of those cruddy things. It's lead to holdouts, new contract demands etc. by the players, PED use and the overall degradation of the integrity of the games.

On a related note, do soccer players hold out for better contracts? Skip practice? Just curious.

---

Back in the saddle!

O.K. this is the planted tank forum isn't it

Maybe somehow this does relate to planted tanks

Here is my poor attempt at a correlation!
Americans like the big goal, big name, they don't appreciate all the little things that go into getting that goal. Maybe this is why they don't appreciate planted tanks like they do in Asia and elsewhere. They think more of the centerpiece fish than the scape. The fish come first for most in the U.S. not the delicate relationships that all the "players" in a planted tank do. In the states almost all professional tanks installed are Saltwater. The balance are usuallly african cichlids. Reason being Americans are attracted to the big fish, colorful and not the whole environment that is created. From the rocks,to the driftwood, to the foreground, mid and background plants it's all about working together to form something natural and beautiful and eventually to "score" with a beautiful tank.




My Scapes

Nice move on getting this thread back on track, tetratech

And I think your version of why planted tanks are not all that popular in the US (yet) makes a lot of sense. This, coupled with the 5,000 overtime hours at work every month to maintain the number one position and as such a lack of free time to mess with a planted tank, might be the reason.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

.........Britney Spears , the Backstreet Boys !

In the U.S, they and their pop brethren are pretty much a joke to anyone under 13.

Hmph, I wish the "tweens" of America would obsess over better music

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

I always though attitudes to planted tanks in the US are a bit similar to their attitude to cars. Bigger, faster, guzzle more fuel, have a bigger engine under the hood etc.

Even the stats obsession creeps in - KH, Ph, No3 numbers etc are always reeled off.

Everyone one wants the flashy over the top red plants.

Growth rates are compared like the 0-60mph rate of an auto.

Asian attitudes are much simpler. Everything is kept to a minimum. Plants are very carefully chosen, ease of use and maintenance is a higher priority then appearance. The lack of flashy plant species is overcome by clever design and use of hardscape. Generally the overall look is greater then the sum of the parts. Fish are secondary and very small species are used.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I agree Bensaf. I think the West tends to be more interested in the ends than in the steps taken to acheive them.

I think in America, we have forgotten how beautiful subtlety is.

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

I think in America, we have forgotten how beautiful subtlety is.

Thats why in all my tanks there are live plants and I make it a point to go out as far away from town I can get at least once a week.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Even the stats obsession creeps in - KH, Ph, No3 numbers etc are always reeled off.

Not Guilty

Everyone one wants the flashy over the top red plants.

Guilty if you count my stellaromatica a la hudson

Growth rates are compared like the 0-60mph rate of an auto.

Not Guility, but I know someone who is

Asian attitudes are much simpler. Everything is kept to a minimum. Plants are very carefully chosen, ease of use and maintenance is a higher priority then appearance. The lack of flashy plant species is overcome by clever design and use of hardscape. Generally the overall look is greater then the sum of the parts. Fish are secondary and very small species are used.

Somewhat Guilty

My Scapes

but I know someone who is

I don't think you mean me though, or do you? Just because I am once in a while inclined to rave about my Star Grass growth doesn't mean that I am obsessed with it .

Anyway, how did we get into this philosophical discussion again?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Anyway, how did we get into this philosophical discussion again?

bensaf started it - as usual

---

Back in the saddle!

Hi Guys,
Lets keep the "extra stuff" in the Recovery Room where
it belongs...
Thanks,
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Lets keep the "extra stuff" in the Recovery Room where
it belongs...

Frank, why?

Does the "extra stuff" take up less space in the recovery room then here?

This thread , log, whatever you want to call it has been going on for 60 some pages, to the benefit and enjoyment of a lot of members.It's basically a running dialogue between a few plant geeks, sometimes we accidently come up with somwthing that may actually be helpful Bound to go off on a tangent from time to time, the nature of the beast.

I would have thought better to keep it within the confines of here , then cluttering up recovery room with new threads.

I like the "stream of conciousness" format these logs have developed into.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi Guys,
There has been an "official" complaint and after reading
several posts that strayed from the stated purpose of the
forum, I thought I'd just nudge things a bit back to center
before we all strayed too far.

Essentially I agree Ben, the chatting back and forth
format between us all has been informative and friendly
and good for us all.

As I said Ben, "just a nudge."

Obviously, your plant eating worries are over for the year.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Tetra,

Love the Main Rock/cave, and the ram

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

As I said Ben, "just a nudge."

I hear you. Sad that somebody somewhere has nothing else to worry about but to complain about this. But that too is the nature of the beast I guess.

I 'll try to keep my meanderings to a minimum, but heck I'm Irish - you might as well ask me to try to stop breathing

Never had any real worries about having too eat my plants

Just to keep on topic - tank looking good tetra . Do you think that maybe the spot where the Wallichi is, is looking a little "weak" compared to the rest of the tank ? Maybe something a little stronger but at the same time not too strong to throw the look off balance.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I don't even want to talk about "complaints" as it would conclude in a rant and that would not be fair either.

So, back to topic and bensaf's recent input:

I agree, the Wallichi group appears to be too fragile compared to all the other full plants. But instead of replacing the group with a stronger plant, how about adding more Wallichi?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, you guys have a point about the wallachi. It's hard to put another good plant bunch there because it extends my mound so far to the right that it's really not a mound anymore. I would have to remove some wisteria and add it or something else more to the center of the scape, but that would end my wisteria jungle look.

On a fish note, the rams are still doing fine (Day 12). Interesting discussion in another thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/29759.1.htm?0.8601972#
about german rams vs blue rams. I posted a pic of my rams in that thread since their were some aquarists that seemed knowledgeable and one stated that my rams aren't even blue or german blue rams but a "Normal Ram" whatever that means.
Here's a current pic:



Attached Image:


My Scapes

Yeah,

I would like to know what Wfish means with his "blue" comment

But I have a question for you: why does the pink on the female belly look to be such a pure red? Did you mess with the camera settings or something?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

But I have a question for you: why does the pink on the female belly look to be such a pure red

I didn't change any settings. If you look at the cardinals they are deep red and the ram is more like a rosy pink red in reality.

BTW - I saw some other rams at the LFS the other day where I got these and they had a golden color over their whole body but they were clearly blue rams with the familiar blue and black markings.

My Scapes

had a golden color over their whole body but they were clearly blue rams with the familiar blue and black markings

Oh no

What are we going to call these then? Non-German-Golden-Blue-Rams?



BTW, I am glad your Rams are still doing fine,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What's in a name ? They are all the same fish, German, Blue
whatever they are called. A bit like like some people calling Myriophyllium names like "Frill" and Parrots Feather - doesn't change the fact it's the same plant.

There a Gold variety coming out of Asia now as well as other monstrosities like balloon and "jumbo" Rams. Why, in the name of all that's holy, anybody would want to take such a spectacular fish and mess with it is beyond me. Especially to come out with a variety that has less color or a deformed shape. And people buy these? To me it's like some idiot playing with the genetics of a plant and coming out with a new one - "look, it only has 2 leaves, but they're big ones and instead of being bright green they're a dull grey - wanna buy it ?"

For the spot where the Wallichi is I wasn't thinking of another bunch plant. Something different , more dramatic. I'm thinking maybe a crypt, but something with flat broad leaves. Anubias Coffeefolia type thing. Or one I think would really work visually , and no I'm not losing it, Spatterdock (Nuphar Japonica). Big unbelievably bright green ruffled lily type leaves, but it stays low doesn't head for the surface like lilies. Added bonus - algae resistant I really think that would work a treat !

Another option, if you can find it - Aponogeton Capuroni. Lovely plant, green transluscent ruffled leaves but unlike other Apons it maxes out at about 12' height , stays a nice size.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Right on, Bensaf

I personally think ballon Rams are truely ugly, like a bloated version of the normal Ram.

About the plant recommendations: I will have to check all these plants out, maybe I like them for my own tank. One question though - the Aponogeton Capuroni, is that one of the type that will periodically melt or become static before it starts to grow again (like most Apons) ?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Balloon rams look like fish that are extremely constipated.
Poor things. I've also seen the long-finned ones as well

Bensaf,

I will definitely look into some of those plants. It's been quite some time since I've added any new species, but I don't want my tank looking like a salad bar or a defensive line-up for a free kick

My Scapes

In the fish hobby it is every guy trying to make a quick buck.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Just to play devil's advocate about the rams - I wholeheartedly agree about the physical deformities, but sometimes i think the Gold ram variety is quite nice looking. They're not dyed, it's just a color variation. Although I do admit, the point about messing with a good thing is taken - for a bright beautiful little fish like the german ram to exist in the wild is amazing, why mess with it?

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Back in the saddle!

About the Gold Ram:

I have to say that I have a hard time with this fish. Although its coloration is not ugly or such, I am only reminded that this is a Ram (of any kind) when I see the fish moving around in the tank in a typical Ram fashion, like defending territories against other Rams, stop and go, and what not. When I just look at the fish briefly I cannot even identify it as a Ram.

Maybe I just have to get used to it first before it appears normal to me. But maybe I don't want to get used to it

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Speaking of golden varieties. Did anyone ever see these.



Attached Image:


My Scapes

No, I don't

Looks like your tank though. I would call these Albino Rummies or Match Rummies, if I had to invent a name for them.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Looks like your tank though

Actually the pic is from APC, but I did see these in the LFS.

My Scapes

Aponogeton Capuroni, is that one of the type that will periodically melt or become static before it starts to grow again (like most Apons) ?

Another advantage of the Capuroni is that while it will hybernate from time to time it doesn't melt and the bulb doesn't need to be removed , it simply will not produce a new leaf for a few weeks. I'll see if I have any good pics of mine.

Tetra I understand what you are saying about the salad bar which was why I wasn't envisioning another stem plant. I was thinking something broad but low to add a new shape to the tank while at the same time highlighting the big bunch of "flowers" in the center. You remember the winning tank from the AGA contest? I was think along those lines as regards function but for your set up I was think low and broad rather then the tall lily. Spatterdock came to mind not just because the shape is ideal but the incredible bright green of that plant would really pop out of the Wisteria field and then blend in with the explosion of color you have in the middle of your tank. The Anubias Coffeefolia would be a far more subtle , more mysterious version of that idea.

Well you probably saw my comments on the albino rummies on the thread in APC. It's the perfect case in point. Rummies are famed for their color, why oh why anybody thinks we need an albino version is beyond me. Why have that drab cream color when you can have the bright silver with a green irredescense that a normal rummie has? It's not about ethics as such , I just don't see the point.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Spatterdock came to mind not just because the shape is ideal but the incredible bright green of that plant would really pop out of the Wisteria field and then blend in with the explosion of color you have in the middle of your tank.

Yes that does sound nice

It's not about ethics as such , I just don't see the point.

Yes, I did see your comments and I agree! It's tough to top mother nature!

My Scapes

No these are not fish eggs .


I get alot of pearling with the "I can't count the bubble rate" method. All plants pearl most everynite with the exception of the riccia because it's very low and the shading has to be minimal. Last nite (6 days post-WC) I had some insane pearling. I've never seen my wisteria pearl this way before.





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My Scapes

Very nice pearling tetratech,

But are you sure that it is not some hair algae on the Wisteria leaves that pearls? I find that algae in general, and in particular in higher elevations, makes very good bubblers.

I am not implying that this is the case in your specific case, but it could be.

Do you have any idea why it may pearl on that particular day so well? Can it be that on that day you have reached optimum levels of nutrients and CO2 levels?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

But are you sure that it is not some hair algae on the Wisteria leaves that pearls?

Well if it is "hair" algae it's Albino.
Your probably right about the co2 and ferts. Actually I was getting alittle nervous last nite because many of my fish were at the surface. I routinely raise my spraybar slightly out of the water in the evening to create some more o2 exchange.

It wasn't only that one leaf, there were streams of bubbles all over the tank.

My Scapes

In case your wondering the Rams seem to be fine after 17 days. Here's a few current pics.



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My Scapes

And the other:



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My Scapes

Another shot

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These guy is very friendly

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My Scapes

Well if it is "hair" algae it's Albino

That fish-on-surface part was very interesting. So you must either assume that your CO2 is too high, or your O2 is too low. The latter should not be the case as your plants wouldn't pearl if the water would not be O2 saturated. So, what makes the fish gasp at the surface? Too much intake of CO2 although there is enough O2 in the water?

Rams look nice, pictres are of excellent quality. I am glad to hear/read/see that things are going so much better with them for you then they did for me.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tetra,
Do you have any readings on your CO2? I tested mine last night and came up with:

Ph: 6.7-8
Kh: 17
CO2: 81ppm

I turned it down a little bit....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

LF,
Many fish were at the surface last nite, not all but many. Although the plants pearl and co2 doesn't displace o2 there is still alot of co2 in the water. So I guess I'm pushing it right now. I do notice when I've acclimated new fish in the evening they went right to the surface if I did it too quickly.

Wings,
I can't even get an accurate co2 reading because my ph color is as yellow as the chart gets, but assuming my ph is 6 and my kh I know is 2 I'm looking at 60ppm. I'm very leary of the whole kh/ph chart thing.....


My Scapes