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  L# 72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
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Subscribe72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
tetratech
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male usa
Thanks, I was just really surprised to see it. And I don't remember it being so big when I first got it. I'm thinking I should move my intake to the right side since the spraybar is attached to the left side wall. This way any debris will be caught on the other end and won't work it's way back into my main grouping. What do you think LF?

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Hm,

I think that the position and arrangement of intake and output are different not only for each tank but also for each scape per tank.

Generally, I would think that you should have them together on the left so that the back of your tank does not become stale. I wish there would be some colored water that one could add to the tank that shows you the current flow, then - within minutes - the color should disappear. I try to derive mine based on food flow.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Perhaps your right about the flow. Speaking of stale I need to get used to virtually no aggitation on the surface. Now that the spray bar is completely submerged the only distrubence is from some pearling and some co2 not getting into the intake, but it's extremely minimal. I'm awaiting my oil slick.

BTW - You very quietly became a FISH MASTER. A belated congrats /:'

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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It's confirmed their in love, or it's big brother love. My rams have not left each other's side for the last few days. They've been spotted togeher all over the tank:



tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 22-Nov-2005 16:44
[/font]

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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If my experience is anything to go by, I think your Rams are going to get busy with it in the very near future. Have fun!

-P
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luvmykrib
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They do look really nice swimming together like that. Me and Mini-me. I really am liking the look of them though. When my betta goes I may need one for my 10g if possible. I now have two favorite cichlids, kribs and rams. Are they really easy like kribs, or harder to keep?

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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If my experience is anything to go by, I think your Rams are going to get busy with it in the very near future
Oh great, another tank. On second thought a perfect excuse to get another tank. My wife's a softy for babies.

Luvmykribs,
They are hardy fish, but different water conditions than kribs.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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or it's big brother love. My rams have not left each other's side for the last few days


Not that there's anything wrong with that...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Thanks for the “upgrade” congratulations.

Now we are waiting for the pink spot on the female’s belly. Any signs there yet?

Yeah, when the surface agitation is removed a film forms easily on the water. I am not sure if I should be worried about it or not, so far it doesn’t seem to harm the fishies in any way. Also, I moved the spraybar to horizontal again a few weeks back and now no film occurs anymore.

Ingo

NowherMan -


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I took my ph reading last nite and it was around 6.0 - 6.2, it was a shade of yellow, which on my test kit is 6.0. I guess I'm getting better co2 diffusion now with the airstone than I did with the hagen ladder. I had to adjust the needle valve (always a scary thing to do) for the first time that I could remember. With a kh of 3 the 6.0 ph would give me a co2 ppm in the 40's. I was currently running at around 36 ppm. Still high, but I see no problem with any fish, including my oh so sensitive cardinals. All 9 look tight.

EDIT: Actually with a kh of 3 and ph of 6 I would have 90ppm. I don't see how that is possible looking at the fish.

Last edited by tetratech at 23-Nov-2005 11:14

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tetratech
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No sign of pink belly yet. I don't any fry will survive in the tank, especially with the pencilfish, they are quick and cunning and go after everything.

BTW - I saw both of my yamato shrimps alive and well. I think the new flow in the tank probably brought them out.

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LITTLE_FISH
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I would assume that the Rams will turn into fierce fighters once they have babies (except if they come from a strain of tank raised Rams that supposedly lose their parenting skills). Maybe it would be a good idea to get a QT set up . You know, just the usual 55G spare tank that otherwise would look so empty .

Ingo

You didn’t happen to take your water sample from within the spraybar stream? There, the CO2 concentration might be higher.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 23-Nov-2005 12:41


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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I remember in one of these logs, someone mentioned anubias needs a host. What sort of host is suitable? I have no room for more driftwood in either tank. Would rocks be an ok host? Right now I have the anubias and the lace java fern just stuck into the gravel in both tanks. I'm sorry if this question is in the wrong thread but it might take me forever to find it. Thanks in advance.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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luvmykrib,

You can attach anubias & java fern to rocks. Just tie with a rubber band until the root attaches itself to the rock.

-P
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tetratech
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Looky what I found at my LFS today. Just in time for the holidays.



tetratech attached this image:


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tetratech
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Another pic, beauty amongst the weeds.




tetratech attached this image:


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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Is that the pencilfish that you were looking at before, tetra? (I don't feel like digging through the pages to find it ) What was it labelled at? It looks like a variation of nannostomus marginatus (dwarf pencilfish), but with more red in the body and tail.

Oh hang on, I think I found it: nannostomus marginatus mortenthaleri]http://www.aquabase.org/picture.php3?action=view&id=685[/link]. More info [link=here]http://www.pecescriollos.de/go/nannostomus-mortenthaleri[/link] and [link=here. LF should be able to translate the last one.

Anyways, very pretty fish! Never seen them around here. How many did you get?

-P
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tetratech
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Yep that's the one upikabu. I ended up buying three of them. This is the first time I saw them in any LFS. This fish is so bright, that it really does give the cardinal a run for it's money. The LFS had just gotten them on Monday, so I'm hoping they do already. I hate buying fish tha have just been acclimated at the LFS and then having to acclimate again. Thanks for the additional info, where's LF when you really need him. ]:|

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upikabu
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Just 3? I would've gotten at least 6 they're so colourful! I'm having trouble finding more n. marginatus for my dwarf tank (only have 3, b/c that's all that was available).

But I take your point about waiting until they're more acclimatised in the LFS - I do exactly the same thing.

-P
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LITTLE_FISH
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Sorry, was out drinking .

I know, I am no use - never here when really needed - If all the advice asked of me is to TRANSLATE ]:|



The home of this form is Peru. Here, the upper parts of flowing waters are their living area. The species was initially classified as a sub-species of Nannostomus marginatus but became its own species in 2003.

This fish is cared for in either a species tank or with similar small decorative fish. They appreciate a dark substrate and, besides dense vegetation, open space for swimming as well as clear slightly acidic water created by peat moss.

The omnivore eats all kinds of food as long as it fits in their mouths. Fine live food should be offered to get them into breeding conditions.

For breeding, a small darkened tank is sufficient. The water in that tank should be very soft and acidic (< 6° dGH, pH-Wert < 6,2, Temperature > 25 °C). The constant egg layers, which can be bred every few days, lay 30 to 40 eggs per session. Hatching happens about 30 hours later, the fry is free swimming after 3 to 4 days. First foods should be infusorians (Ingo Edit: the usual small fry food, don’t know how that is spelled) or tiny critters (again, the very small live food, like green water etc.).

Distinctive is the extreme territorial behavior of this species' male fish. (Ingo Edit – Oh Oh)

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 24-Nov-2005 03:36


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tetratech
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LF how many drinks did ou have or are you translating from that German website that Upikabu linked to me?

You sound like a pencil fish encylopedia. You already have them breeding, I still have them floating in the the LFS bag.



upikabu
They one had a few more and two of them had alot of torn fins, and as you knon they were just in the store since Monday. I also have 5 beckford pencils in the tank, so I'm assuming they'll interact with those.


Last edited by tetratech at 24-Nov-2005 06:35

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

You know, drinking was from 3PM to 7PM

I got up for you this morning (at 4:30) and translated the German article, that was my entry above. Guess that’s why it sounds like an encyclopedia.

I sure hope you read the last line of that entry as it might explain the torn fins.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 24-Nov-2005 06:39


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tetratech
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Distinctive is the extreme territorial behavior of this species' male fish

Oh great first the rams now this. I should have just used my tank as a backup to your espei. When I first saw them at the LFS I honestly thought they were dyed fish.

So if my red corals breed with my other pencils will I get pink coral.





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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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They one had a few more and two of them had alot of torn fins, and as you knon they were just in the store since Monday.


Man, you both sound drunk and isn't Thanksgiving Day only *today*?

Thanks for the fascinating translation, LF. That's interesting about the male's aggression in this species because the regular n. marginatus I have are very peaceful fish and never bother each other or other fish. Sometimes they even get chased around by the botia sidthimunki. Perhaps their personality is more like the Beckford's, which would fit right in your tank, tetra!

-P
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Does sound like a drunk statement.

So far they are very peaceful, but probably too soon to tell. What surprised me is the Black Neons. They seem to be very aggressive toward the red pencils. I was going to move them anyway so I guess this clinches it.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
Well if I would have know my co2 diffusion methods would have made such a stir, I probably would not have posted the change, but this is a log. LF I feel bad now, I was just trying to get a point across that different things work for different people and it's tough to draw absolute conclusions sometimes. For example, I have seen at least 10 different methods of co2 diffusion that aquarists who have incredible tanks use, so again, few things are black & white. You didn't need to delete your log entries, but since you did I'm going to delete mine as well.
Let's keep having fun.

TT


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LITTLE_FISH
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OK


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Hey Man,

Where is your weekly update?

No falling asleep on the job permitted .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, I think my rotala had run it's course after topping it 5 or 6 times, it simply wasn't growing anymore, so I decided to savage any good stems and completely uproot it. I think Bensaf, had said you could go along time without uprooting, well after 2 months the plant had it. Unfortunately, I had just topped some of them about a week ago, so I didn' have that many stems with tops, so I had to replant stems that I had topped a week ago and now I threw out the bottoms, so basically I'm replanting the middle. By the time I got done it was lights out, so I'll try to post a pic tomorrow or Tuesday.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Well, at least in one point I seem to have been right about rampant growth and high maintenance :

Rotala – …, but here is my observation. Constant trimming will make the stems look ragged and at some point the stems will have to be taken out and replaced with new cuttings.


This was on [link=Page 9]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/64496_9.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link], in case someone cares.

I think that your middle sections will provide a good base for new growth. I remember to have cut stems at least 3 times and planted them all back in the tank when I was increasing the size of the initial group in my 29G.

But I wonder if you would like to keep on doing this in the long run, replanting every 2 months.

How are the lower sections of your Star Grass looking? Mine in the 20G basically have no leaves on the lower parts of the skinny stems.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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"Rotala – …, but here is my observation. Constant trimming will make the stems look ragged and at some point the stems will have to be taken out and replaced with new cuttings."

Yes, you did say that on page 9 and this was my response also on page 9.

Yes, this I believe will happen, but the area behind the rock is actually quite large and accessable. It's tough to tell from the photo.

So we were both right, the area was easy to replant, there is alot of room back there. It was only a matter of how often you need to replant. I really like the look of stem plants in my setup, so I don't mind uprooting every 2 months. I don't think I have much of an option.

As far as the stargrass one grouping looks very solid still the other I think hasn't been as thick for a while (remember the flow conversation) so I'm thinking of restarting that one as well.

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LITTLE_FISH
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Is the Star Grass group that is not as strong the one on the left (when looking at the tank)?

If so, maybe it could have something to do with the larger Rotala group shading this area.

Ingo


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tetratech
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Yes, the smaller group to the left when looking at the tank. Could be the shade, but the light is directly overhead, so not sure how much of a factor that would be. I also noticed each individual leave is not as elongated as they were on both groups.

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tetratech
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Day 65 (I think) - 9th Week.

This has been a transition week for th tank. I had to pull out the main rotala grouping because it seemed to stop growing after about 5 or 6 toppings. I also pulled out one of the stargrass groupings for the same reason. I also added a big piece of DW to the center. Right now it looks a little heavy in the hardscape and I still don't have the DW I really want but I plan to have my stem plants grow around tha middle piece just exposing the top third of it. I also don't have the heart to remove it because for some reason, my two yamato shrimp are calling it home. I don't know if it's because of the height or the crevices in it, but they seldom leave it.




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tetratech
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Another pic as it sets in my kitchen. You could also see the only visible equipment now in my tank is the green eheim return. I'm still not sure why the company makes these an ugly mint green. I actually ordered a black intake from another brand of filter. You probably can't even see my heater which is just to the right of the return. It's a visi-therm stealth and is all black. My diffusor is now an airstone inside the intake and the airline tubing, what else black stealth.



tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 29-Nov-2005 18:55
[/font]

Last edited by tetratech at 29-Nov-2005 19:07

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Cup_of_Lifenoodles
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Stealths are the best heaters ever.
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tetratech
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Cup,
I would have to agree!

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I really like that minimilist "iwagumi" look. Something tall and very thin in thick solitary group at the back wopuld be an amazing look. Cyperus Helfiri or Vallisnera Nana would be stunning. Really show off the Cardinals too. Not the entire back , just one thick grouping.

If you go back to the old look, I'd swap out the Rotala (not uprooting for 2 months was pushing it a bit - I didn't mean you could go THAT long) for something more dramatic, bolder - Limnophilia Aromatica or Ludwigia Cuba or Ammania or if you're feeling real brave Eusteralis Stellata.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

You know, I think it looks just awesome the way it is now. Maybe you shouldn’t plant anything else at all and just let the Wisteria and Hair Grass cover the entire ground.

On the other hand, that would mean that you are done. And that would be really boring . And if you should decide to go with Bensaf’s advice and try his Cyperus Helferi idea then tell me where you got it as I seem not to be able to find it at any online retailer (it’s either out or they don’t have it at all). This plant is No1 on my wish list.

About the filter return. Eheim has kits (called No1 for intake and No2 for return) that are not green, more of a dark gray. You can look at my tank pics to see them. Maybe the No2 is an option for you.

Again, I like the current look very much,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 30-Nov-2005 03:26


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tetratech
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Thanks for the comments, To be honest I didn't think anyone would really like the tank right now, because it is in transition and alittle off balance.

I like those pinkish plants Bensaf mentioned, I'll have to see if I could locate. I know aquariumplants does not have them.

LF I did see that Eheim return you have sold as a kit, but as you said it is grey so I'm trying at this point to get all black.

You can't tell from my pic, but my tank does has a haze to it. I'm not sure if it's from the distrubance of removing the plants or the fact that my plant mass is smaller. There seems to be a very fine line between clarity and cloudiness in my tank.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I like those pinkish plants Bensaf mentioned, I'll have to see if I could locate. I know aquariumplants does not have them.


All apart from the Stellata should be easy enough to find. Try Aquabotanic. The for sale forum on APC should throw some up.

Helferi is a bit more difficult (very slow grower)but again they pop up on APC from time to time. Try a WTB post.



Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Helferi is a bit more difficult (very slow grower)but again they pop up on APC from time to time. Try a WTB post.

I just checked AB. The only thing they list as available is the Helferi. Everything else I can't find when I search their site. I guess I need to make more friends at APC.



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Yeah tetratech,

I ordered it about 40 min ago

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You mean you beat me to the last stem. You Jersey guys are all the same when it comes to New Yorkers.

Is that all you ordered and what do they charge to ship?

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What

Does that mean that there was only one left? Or none? I sure didn’t mean to do that.

I bought 5 and I also bought 5 Potamogeton gayii – looks like an interesting plant, will se what it does (and where it goes).

I was reading about shipping after I placed the order as I assumed it would come up in the ordering process (but didn’t). They charge around $ 18 to $ 24 for shipping in handling, if I read that right. I should have put my shipping preference in the field “Note to us”, but I didn’t know that when I placed the order (you know, I had to rush to beat all the NY guys to it ). It will be shipped next week (I hope) via UPS 2day.

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I think I have to put together a bigger order if I'm going to pay $25 for s&h. I just did my monthly BigAls order and the wife see's all the bills? I was just kidding about the last stem.

BTW - Off topic, what is your current temp in your 125G? Mine is at about 78F. Wondering if it's more beneficial for plants to reduce to 75F. I got into a habit of keeping it warmer for the cardinals and too make ich tougher to establish itself.

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tetratech,

You almost made me feel guilty .

I have both of my smaller tanks at about 80F but decided to keep the 125G a little cooler (mostly because of heating cost considerations). I have two thermometers in the tank one left front one right back side. The first one reads 76F and the other one 78F. The are both glass thermometers and I assume my true value is in the middle. My heaters (Visi Therm – but not stealth) are set to 76F (I believe).

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 30-Nov-2005 09:28


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Thanks for the temp reading. I'm pretty much right where you are, maybe alittle warmer. I'm glad I don't have the ebo heater anymore, set it at 75 and 81.

Maybe you shouldn’t plant anything else at all and just let the Wisteria and Hair Grass cover the entire ground.
It's funny that you said that, because if I do nothing my wistera will completely take over the substrate. It does not grow vertically anymore. It crawls along the substrate. I used to get all kinds of algae on the wisteria, it was almost like a magnet, but now it grows too fast and incredibly clean. In this pic the wisteria reaches all the way to the back glass and will probably reach the right side glass next week. It kinda looks like a thick field going uphill to the rocks and main group.



tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 30-Nov-2005 11:07
[/font]

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* imagines tetratech standing next to the tank with a whip saying “crawl Wisteria, crawl” *



Yeah, I know I am crasy.

It would be interesting to see what will happen when it wants to grow and the glass is in its way. Will is “crawl” up the glass or start to grow vertical again?

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* imagines tetratech standing next to the tank with a whip saying “crawl Wisteria, crawl” *

(Scratches Head) How did you know?

Switching to stargrass. I find this to be a really weird plant. It's not dying, but the leafs are more compact now and I'm getting some black and I have good light. It's supposely a macro hungry plant and I know I have no3 and po4 cause I've been dosing. The flow is hitting a gently. I've even replanted some tops and it's really not taking off. I've heard of alot of people not being able to figure stargrass out. I knew you had problems in your 20g with light, but mine is directly under my light :%)

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tetratech,

Are they getting black at the bottom or on the leaves?

If it is at the bottom then maybe the compact leaves create enough shade to have the bottoms die.

If it is on top then I don't know. It doesn't seem to grow in my 20G as well as it used to. Some pieces came lose and I took the chance to plant a few in the corner of the 125G. Maybe in a few weeks I can tell you my experience (if I still have it then).

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It pretty much has black areas all the way around, not just on the bottom. Leaves are smaller and not as "lack of a better word" flurry. I guess that's a disadvantage for me only having a few dense stands. If one goes down it puts a big hole in my scape. With all your plants it doesn't affect it as much.

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Since I have such a fine line between clear and cloudiness I've decided to purchase a UV sterilizer. Some aquarist have never used these others swear by them. I think it all depends upon your situation and who knows maybe one's tap water and it's contents plays a role in water getting cloudy.

One of the reasons I've decided to purchase one was also fish-based. Since I plan on having a large school of Cardinals which have shown themselves to be e to internal infections I feel the UV will help since it destroys harmful bacteria and parasites. I believe it will also save me money in the long run in both replacement fish as well as water clarifiers, etc.

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Interesting... and I guess it makes sense in your situation. Rather than buy from an LFS that does not use them, you're just going to get one yourself so that "conditions" stay constant.

How much do those run on a tank your size?


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Actually my tank still looks like the pics I posted on page 19. The cloudiness doesn't really show up, but I promise to take a before and after pic and post. I guess if I adjust the camera setting I could show the cloudiness more, I think you could see it looking through the side.

And yes, I believe I will need the force!

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as in KH2PO4?


Actually, I meant k2so4, not the one mentioned above.

Well, sounds good to me .

I hear you on the inconsequence of measuring based on the described tank volume vs. the actual water mass.

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tetratech – you say you stopped SO4 ( as in KH2PO4? ). Where do you get your K from? Shouldn’t the K be as high as the NO3 and doesn’t KNO3 contain less K (in ppm) than NO3

As in Flourish Potassium. Actually when I ordered my kh2po4 from Greg Watson also ordered k2so4, but haven't even used it because I still had alot of Flourish Potassium. Anyway without dosing Flourish Potassium this is what I get per dose.

N - 5.85ppm
P - .72ppm
K - 3.98ppm

My wildcard with the K is the eco complete, so I'm not worry it's not enough. This is based on the fertilator. Another interesting observation with this fert calcuators, is that they compute these ranges based on the size of your tank, but do they take into consideration they actual water volume. I have alot of DW, rocks, pretty deep substrate which obviously reduces the water volume, could be as much as 5 gallons, so whatever your dosing based on calculator your probably putting even more in.

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I use a smidgeon spoon to measure small quantities for up to 1/32 tsp, which is a little more than 0.03 tsp.

tetratech – you say you stopped SO4 ( as in KH2PO4? ). Where do you get your K from? Shouldn’t the K be as high as the NO3 and doesn’t KNO3 contain less K (in ppm) than NO3?

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Good question nowher,

You know some of those nh3 test kits come with the little spoon. Anyway my old nh3 test kit add three regents for nh3 and the first you add to scoop with this little spoon. Well it takes 20 of those spoons to equal my 1/2 tsp, so I know what the 10 to 1 ratio is. So if I'm dosing .5 tsp no3 than I know I need 2 spoonfuls to get to .05 tsp

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NowherMan6
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hey tetra, how exactly do you get .05 tsp of po4? I mean, how exactly do you measure out such a small amount.


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After consulting the PPS system I realized my no3 and po4 levels where low, which might have accounted for my stalled growth during all that trimming here are my current dosing levels:

no3 .5 tsp 3/week
po4 .05 tsp 3/week
flourish 10ml 3/week
flourish trace 5ml 3/week

I stopped dosing so4 since I think I get enough through no3, po4 and my eco substrate.

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Good point. I did actually set it up on the output side of my canister, so this way any debris is obviously caught by the filter media. I know some people run the UV just off a powerhead and they do recommend a prefilter.



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Hi,
Regarding the UV sterilizer, if you are running "raw"
water through it (unfiltered water) then you will probably
have to clean the insides out at a regular interval as the
detritus (floating debris) from the tank eventually will
coat the UV cage and dim the light reaching the water.

Best results are obtained when the output of the canister
is plumbed through the UV filter.

Frank


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Here's another pic looking through the right side of tank showing the clarity.



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What are the maintenance requirements on the UV filter? Do you have to frequently check if the bulb is still working? How much does a replacement bulb cost and did you already buy one (just in case this one breaks)?

The unit I have as a sort of translucent window to the side of the chamber that allows you to see if the light is working. the bulb supposely lasts 8,000 hrs and is about $10 and it's only 9watts, so very little long-term costs.
Havent' bought a new bulb and considering that GW isn't a dangerous thing just asetitic I probably won't bother until I see that this bulb has become ineffective. The entire unit was only $74.99 no tax and no shipping when I bought it for VIP members from BigAls.

I haven't decided yet if I'm going to run it 24/7 or put it on a timer and have it run at night only. Supposely turning the light on and off decreases bulb life. I guess I'll see how my plants do, because the UV supposely has the ability to unchelate FE, but many have said if you dose FE every day it's not an issue. It makes me feel better that Greg Watson uses one 24/7 as well.



Last edited by tetratech at 11-Dec-2005 10:15

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tetratech,

The Wisteria really looks lovely and the UV filter worked wonders.

What are the maintenance requirements on the UV filter? Do you have to frequently check if the bulb is still working? How much does a replacement bulb cost and did you already buy one (just in case this one breaks)?

It is too bad that the Rotala group is so diminished. I hope it grows back soon or you find another plant that you would like to put in its place.

Ingo


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This pic captures how thick my wisteria is growing. Besides some black fringes on some of the lower leaves the plant is really full and very soft. It really has become a carpet to 80% of the substrate from back to mid surrounding the main island:



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Here's a shot a little closer in. A few have asked why my shots are dark. Remember I have a black background and dark drifwood and a dark substrate. If I take the pics any lighter it looks washed out and not what it really does look like. If you look at the plants they are bright and that's pretty much what I was looking for. I probably will search for a new plant group that will add extra drama. This pic you could see the rotala r starting to burst once again behind the main rock and the anubias I split and has grown many new leaves.



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Last edited by tetratech at 11-Dec-2005 09:18
[/font]

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Week 10 has been a good week after using the UV since Tuesday the water has attained a level of cleariness I don't think I've ever had except in the very beginning.
Here's a full tank shot.



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Actually, it's only brown because of your lighting and it's actually yello.
It really does look brownish rust under 96w and under 192w.

I wanted to ask why does your tank always look so dark? Is it just the pictures or the lighting on the tank?
As you know I have a black background and black substrate, plus when I take most of my pics one set of lights is off, so I only have 96w over the tank. If I use a slower speed it's not as sharp. To be honest, I like the way my tank looks under the lower light.

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Now it is time to wait and see if it has any longer-term negative effect, although I wouldn&#8217;t know what that would be.
Let's make a list with different possibilities:

1. Fish start to glow.
2. The existing protists that don't get sucked through the UV stage a major revolt and start attaching themselves to the fish turning them green instead
3. A new breed of protist evolves that is UV resistant and is even greenier than the original breed.



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Your ram is just colouring up, this is how they look like when they're happy, and it gets more intense just before they breed. Actually, it's only brown because of your lighting and it's actually yello. This is, of course, a male ram, both males and females have that yellow bit.

That reminds me... I wanted to ask why does your tank always look so dark? Is it just the pictures or the lighting on the tank? It's very atmospheric, but it's hard to spot details on the wood and rocks.
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tetratech,

Well, without any doubt the first step of the UV functionality has been verified, without a doubt it killed off the GW . Now it is time to wait and see if it has any longer-term negative effect, although I wouldn&#8217;t know what that would be.

When I saw the text and picture of the Ram I was first excited as I assumed it is the female&#8217;s spot marking readiness to breed. Then I got a little worried though. If you refer to the area in the red circle then this is most likely what it is, although German Ram&#8217;s have a rather pinkish-red spot that stretches from one side to the other around the belly. If it is further up then I don&#8217;t know.

Ingo

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My ram has a new brownish area in the middle of it's body.



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My rotala has breached my main rock and is back growing again.



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At closer inspection....



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Last edited by tetratech at 09-Dec-2005 18:25
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At closer inspection:



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Here's the tank today, about 72 hrs after UV start:



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It's been about 10 days since I posted a full tank shot, so here we go. Here's a shot on Tuesday before the UV was activated. As I said the front shot doesn't show as much difference, but looking at the next two shots separated by 72 hours shows a big difference.

Tuesday's pic before UV:





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It's been about 10 days since I posted a full tank shot, so here we go. Here's a shot on Tuesday before the UV was activated.



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Bob,

Well if I hadn't gotten the UV I would have darkened the tank already. I've done big WC on GW doesn't do anything. Here I'm testing just the UV and it's ability.

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Bob Wesolowski
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Tetra,

How about a 50% water change tonight before you go to bed? Can't hurt as the murk draws you closer and closer to darkening the tank...

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Latest Pics

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GFG sounds good to me.

Anyway here's a pic summary of the UV treatment. The tank didn't look tha much different to me from this morning at 39 hrs and this evening at 47 hours. I also kept my co2 running which several aquarists said helps sustain GW, The think in the morning with the co2 off all nite will tell the tale.



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I sleep loads better with my tank in my room, falling asleep to the fish swimming around, the light is an excellent night light cos it goes off on a timer, when you can't sleep you can watch the fish and fall asleep without thinking about it too much.

GFG

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tetratech,

Well lets see here. I am done with my classes for the winter break so I just don't have much else to do. Thanks though!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Thanks LF, I think I'll change my avatar for the occasion.

Wingdsc - Funny! Your on a hot streak with your tank and your jokes

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The fish tank puts off a romantic glow?? #3??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Uh,



Just saw that we have now a Guru in the mix.

Congrats tetratech, and take a picture of yourself sitting on a needle bed.

Ingo

PS: Number 2000 was in NowherMan6's thread

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 08-Dec-2005 12:15


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Those are all very funny guys,

How 'bout this:

"I promise there will never be any algae in the tank"

I put that with all those other thing you say in the bedroom!

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Man,

I have many ideas but,

a) none is as good as Bob's
b) none is suitable for this forum (so don't ask)

Ingo


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Actually 1.) was the reason I almost moved my 46 OUT of the bedroom... instead of putting me right to sleep it made me get up every 10 minutes and go to the bathroom...

2.) Who needs a painting when you can have a living work of art on the wall instead!

bob -


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2. It comes with a diamond tennis bracelet?

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Thanks, Any ideas on how I could conveience my wife to let me put my old 46 in the bedroom? So far I came up with:

1. The gentle splashing of water will put you right to sleep.

2.?
3.?

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Yeah, who needs a radio when you can listen to your fish :%)

Good luck on the Rams being funky, maybe you should make sure that you have a flat surface (stone) ready for egg laying. And get that fry tank going, while you are at it .

Ingo


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It seems to work very well, I guess NowherMan6 will have to place an order with Big Al's soon


You're gosh darn right on that one.

Clears the water, makes fish want to get down/ get funky too?? To heck with the satellite radio, I want a UV sterilizer for xmas!


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tetratech
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Definitely something up with my rams, the bigger one's fins have turned bright orange and the two are really getting funky. Maybe it's the UV Radiated water





tetratech attached this image:


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Yup tetratech,

It seems to work very well, I guess NowherMan6 will have to place an order with Big Al's soon ().

Yeah, I agree on the Anubias findings, mine grow pretty fast as well. In particular the Barteri get a new flower stem once every 2 weeks .

Ingo


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Looks good

You're right, the rotala definetely is growing well, even in a short time span like that. I've found that plants go through HUGE growth spurts when there's green water... i guess it's just a great big ol' ice-cream social in there for Protists and higher Plants alike...

Good to hear about the anubias too. I understand why it's called a slow grower, but with CO2 and high but shaded light I've found that it's capable of putting out a leaf to a leaf and a half per week.


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tetratech
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Now 40 hrs (actually 39 hrs) after UV startup:



tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 08-Dec-2005 08:36
[/font]

BTW - Looks like my Rotala has started growing again, but I think it's just the replanted tops, which would make me thing it was the trimming and not the water itself. I'm also having good growth from an Anubias I split into two pieces a few weeks ago, I have about 3 new leaves on one and the other is developing as well.

Last edited by tetratech at 08-Dec-2005 08:39

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tetratech
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O.K here's a 40 hr UV update water definitely clearing (LF did not play with camera settings)

First the photo from the other day



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tetratech
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I did keep the setting the same but available light, extra, I can't conrol. I think the 48 hour pic will tell the tale.

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Yup,

I can see the difference, or did you change your camera settings .

It seems like you are winning this battle, now go on and win the war, yeah.

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Well tetra, it's definetely working... slowly but surely


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Here's the pic:



tetratech attached this image:


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tetratech
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Here's a pic after 24 hours with the UV. Not much change although I think it's slightly clearer.





Last edited by tetratech at 07-Dec-2005 19:28

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I'll send you guys a PM if it does go up on Ebay

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"Tetratech Special - Complete GW Tank Setup"



Oh really? I have been wanted a bowfront for a while.......

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"Kills single-celled Protists! You don't have to know what that means, it kills them just the same!"


Nah, I'm sure it'll work just fine. And if it does.... hello BigAlsOnline for me!


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tetratech,

Very nice picture of the green tank. I guess you will have to let the UV filter run for at least a day to see any changes, right?

Ingo


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Even with the greenish haze over it the wisteria looks so good! Hope you get thet under control it has been bothering you for some time. Could it be too much light? Not enough CO2? I'm just tossing stuff out there. I haven't had an algae bloom yet (knock on wood). Did the willow branches work before? Or I also read about philodendron cuttings, they would actually look pretty neat I would think. And they would take root, then you could pot them up and put in new ones. I really have no idea what I'm babbling about so I'm shutting up now!Still love the tank!

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tetratech
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Here's a pic of wisteria with alittle Lobelia cardinalis in front of it. My bristlenose almost completely consumed this plant, but it's making a comeback.



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tetratech
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O.K. you asked for it. Here's a pic from the side, from the front you can't appreciate it. At least I could still see the faint glow of Paracheirodon axelrodi



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LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah tetratech

Now all you have to do is to get up every hour and give us an update on the progress.

And where is that "before" picture?

Ingo


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tetratech
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At approximately 6:30 est the eradication of the single-celled protists (thanks Megil) has begun.

Here is a pic of my setup under the hood that now includes the UV Sterilizer.



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tetratech
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I think you take better pics than me Nowher. I was only ablle to capture the true extent of the green from the side. Tonite I will take a before pic as LF alluded to and than I will take another on the same setting to see what affect the UV is having.

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Actually my tank still looks like the pics I posted on page 19. The cloudiness doesn't really show up, but I promise to take a before and after pic and post


Woah woah woah... then what was all this talk about it looking like "Nowher's on steroids" ??? If you can see more than 2 inches deep into the tank, it can't be THAT bad...


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You guys are awesome.

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So just to recape a bit.

On this site we have people who:

1. Read to their plants every night.
2. Play slave driver to get their plants to grow.
3. Now play Algae War/Star Wars with their tanks!

What is next??

LF,

Sould have said.....May the Flurish Excel be with you!

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tetratech,

I know that you are not too keen on posting pictures of your tank when it is not in top shape, but please be so nice and give us the "before the treatment" shot .

And then go ahead and put your Luke Skywalker uniform on and fight the "Algae Wars".

May the force be with you .

Ingo


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tetratech
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Give 'em hell, tetra! The only good single-celled Protist is a dead one
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Nowher, are you in the middle of your blackout. I'm sure you did this, but don't forget to stop co2.

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Give 'em hell, tetra! The only good single-celled Protist is a dead one.


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tetratech
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Hm, last time I checked 10 liters where 2.64 US gallons

Sorry guys, I meant quarts. Yes that would change things just a bit. :%)

BTW - I should be getting my UV sterilizer today. So say your prays you single-celled Protists. This is the
"Algae Wars" Yes I really am 42.



Last edited by tetratech at 06-Dec-2005 09:03

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We make it too complicated?

Fill a bucket with 10 liters (10.5 gallons) of tap water.


Hm, last time I checked 10 liters where 2.64 US gallons .

I hope this was only a typo because otherwise your conclusions would be way off.

Ingo


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How do you measure the KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4 to make the standard solution?

The article will tell you how to do this for no3 and po4, not sure about so4. The po4 is similiar to the no3 they tell you how much po4 to add to 10 liters to measure the different ppms.

NO3.PO4.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ca.geocities.com/pps@rogers.com/01.01.Test.NO3.PO4.pdf

Last edited by tetratech at 05-Dec-2005 20:23

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upikabu
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Tetra,

How do you measure the KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4 to make the standard solution? Do you have a scale that could measure those precise amounts given in the article? I don't reckon using tsp/tbsp equivalents would be very accurate.

-P
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tetratech
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Half way back? maybe a quarter.

No, you guys are making it way to complicated. All you do is:

Fill a bucket with 10 liters (10.5 gallons) of tap water.
Add in 2ml of no3 - test the bucket for 5ppm color
Add in another 2ml of no3 - test 10 ppm color
Add in another 4ml of no3 - test for 20 ppm color

*I only did up to 20ppm, but you could go further.

After you done with the color tests, than test your tank water and see where you color falls. I took a pic of the all the test tubes so I would have a photo of the colors. Now in the futre if you set up the same photo conditions you could match the color. The test really is meant to train your eye to see low, normal, high so you'll know what's going on in your tank, but the photo will help if you think you'll forget what the color means.

BTW - I don't know what's in your tap, it can't be that much no3, but either way your using tap in your tank so that's the color.




Last edited by tetratech at 05-Dec-2005 15:34

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You just fill a bucket with 10l of water and then add in the recommend amount of no3 for each ppm you want a color for


What water do you use &#8211; tank water? I thought it would be tab water &#8211; but what is the NO3 concentration in tab water?

It also appeared that you had to add hundreds of drops of test solution to the water then, did I read that right?

Ingo

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ohhhhh, it said 10 liters ?? That explains a lot. Glad i wasnt the only confused one


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LF,

Glad you conscious once again from your holiday celebrating

It's really very simple. You just fill a bucket with 10l of water and then add in the recommend amount of no3 for each ppm you want a color for. Then when you test your tank water you could match the color to the controlled sample. As you could see from my test, I had much less no3 than I thought once I matched it to the control.

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I skimmed through the article as well, but I didn&#8217;t really have time to focus.

I got confused in the part where you have to add a solution to 10 liters of water or something like that. Then I wondered off in my mind and started to think about if 6ppm are enough and 20 are only the max after which one would do a water change of 50% given that there is zero nutrient uptake, and then my old brain got confused .

But I promise I will make a better effort to understand it the next time I read the article.

Ingo


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I did take a brief look at that article, though I didn't read every word. However, the first thing i thought of was how Tom Barr (the Pope is it?) always mentions how most test kits are off and give readings that are higher than they should be. This looks like a good method to get a better idea of where your levels really stand when calibrated to the test kit itself.


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So sorry to hear this tetra. You were doing so well too. Does this mean you won't be sending me the willow branches and magic fairy dust?

Thanks Nowher!
Just when you think you have it all figured out ]:|]:|]:|

I always had a very delicate balance between clear and hazy water, so I think when some of my plant mass got reduced after I replanted my rotala and it hasn't grown back so well, there was not enough mass left. One thing I don't understand my wistera which is suppose to be an excellent fert sucker is growing great and literally takes up 85% of the bottom of my tank, grantly I have it growing like a carpet, but it's still alot of mass, so I'm not sure what's causing the GW. There are some aquarist, very advanced ones that use UV because they simply can't get away from green water. I actually use the seachem product Clarity and it did absolutely nothing. The P-Clear product from Hagen always cleared the GW but it would eventually return.

BTW - No one has mentioned the calibration testing procedure I did for no3 and po4 testing. Look above 5 or 6 posts. It's very simple and will give you a much better read on your macro levels.


Last edited by tetratech at 05-Dec-2005 14:04

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My favorite plant (single-celled floating) algae continues it's domination of my tank. My tank look like Nowher's on steriods



So sorry to hear this tetra. You were doing so well too. Does this mean you won't be sending me the willow branches and magic fairy dust?

But yeah, it's good that your UV is on the way, it'll be a good test to see how well it works.

besaf - .....


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I laughed.

Also, the term "algae" doesn't really have any taxonomical significance whatsoever. TECHNICALLY, certain "algae" as they are commonly called, are in fact simple plants, IIRC.




Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 04-Dec-2005 22:24
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algae are not plants they are protists


Does that mean they don't believe in the Pope ???


A bit of good 'ol Irish Catholic humor.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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I liked it
Thanks LF!

Well, did something constructive today I calibrated my testing procedure using the PPS System. Here is the link explaining it if your interested. This is for no3 and po4.

NO3.PO4.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ca.geocities.com/pps@rogers.com/01.01.Test.NO3.PO4.pdf

Bascially we all have problems interperting the color on the test kit charts, so the calibration allows you to use tap water and add a set amount of N03 for example and see what color develops. You do the same testing for different levels like 5ppm, 10ppm, 20ppm then when you test your water you'll know what the color really means.

After doing my no3 test, I realized I have low nitrate. I honestly thought my no3 levels were fine, before the calibration. Here's a pic showing 3 different levels that I calibrated and then my tank water. You could see by the color I have between 5 and 10ppm no3 and this was after I dosed 1/2 tsp today, which according to the FERTILATOR adds almost 6ppm to my size tank. So I basically had 1 and 3ppm based on water changes, etc. I'm hoping this has alot to do with why my plants haven't been growing that well. I know stargrass for example is no3 hungry.




tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 04-Dec-2005 19:36
[/font]

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LITTLE_FISH
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I liked it




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My favorite plant (single-celled floating) algae continues it's domination of my tank. My tank look like Nowher's on steriods.

Megil,
Technically you are right, I acutally meant it as a joke ]

I guess it wasn't a good one

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algae are not plants they are protists



Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 04-Dec-2005 11:01

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My favorite plant (single-celled floating) algae continues it's domination of my tank. My tank look like Nowher's on steriods.

Anyway pretty sure it's from all the reduced plant mass since 2 of my 3 main stem groups are not functioning. I think the UV will help, but not going to be here till Tuesday. I did order some Seachem Clarity in my last BigAls ordered and I dosed some last nite and it hasn't put a dint in the cloudiness.

Some parameters of my tank I took this morning:

ph 6.6
kh 2
gh 5
nh3 0
no3 10-20 ppm
po4 (waiting for new test kit)

The only surprising think here is the kh at 2. This has been 3 pretty consistently. At the gh of 5, maybe I should be using the Seachem Equilium product. On the otherhand my PH is incredibly stable only moving between about 6.2 and 6.6 at the most extreme times.

Wisteria, hairgrass, anubias continue to grow great. I've been dosing flourish 5ml 3/week which gives me about .18 Fe each week, plus the eco complete. So I think the plants have what they need to grow.

I'm vexed, terribly vexed.

On the bright side, the fish seem fine, all my cardinals are doing well and I have no algae on the plants themselves.





Last edited by tetratech at 04-Dec-2005 09:10

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Fish - Excellent
Greenish Tint - ]:|]:|]:|

Not again, I hope it holds off until you get the UV filter. Then we can put it to the test right away .

Ingo


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Well my tank is definitely starting to get a greenish tint to it. I definitely think it's from the reduced plant mass now that two of my three groupings are much smaller.

I eagerly await my UV.

I was also in aquarium adventure today and purchased 5 more cardinals and 3 more otos. Assuming all the cardinals acclimate O.K. I'll have a total 15 cardinals and 10 otos in the tank.



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Thanks Upikabu. That is very handy.



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Do you know how much FE is in TMG vs Flourish


Not sure if you've seen this before tetra, but according to it, Flourish has 4.6x the amount of Fe than TMG for the same dosage amount.

-P
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Thanks Bensaf! My main stems groups look like they just stopped, literally. They aren't dying although the stargrass has black edging, the rotala looks like it just totally stopped. So I think you thought that is from unkind trimming and should restart eventually.

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Sorry don't know. Can't get Flourish here.I would imagine pretty similar. I do remember that TMG uses a different chelating agent - ETPA. By all accounts this is superior and will keep the Iron from oxidising much longer then Flourish.

How many PPM am I dosing a week ? Don't know that either.I suppose I could check the Chelated FE bottle (it's Azoo BTW)

What's my levels ? Nope , no idea.

I have an FE test kit somewhere. I've used it once, I think it was 0.5ppm.

You should know me by now. I don't test, I watch the plants.My test kit for FE is Mayacca Fluviatis. The color tells me how I'm doing for Iron. Right now it's telling me I could take a bit more Iron.

5mls of Flourish is not a lot for a tank that big.If the tanks is established and running well a bit more micros is always a good idea.


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Bensaf,

Do you know how much FE is in TMG vs Flourish. I've been dosing 5ml Flourish 3/week for a total of FE of .18ppm.
You said your also dosing Chelated FE, so what is your total ppm of Fe weekly?

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LF you definitely have an eye for detail. Actually that one stargrass stem I kinda pulled through from the main stand to wrap in front of the dw. I could be wrong, but the main grouping looks just like that stem pretty much. It's black on top as well and it's right under 192watts of light as it was from the getgo. I've actually increased my 192watt time from 5 to 7 hours to see if it sparks anything. When I first planted the stargrass even little cuttings were growing low at the substrate level.

BTW - Sorry to hear about the Gourami

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Hey tetratech,

Is this plant in the red circle one of the Star Grasses? It looks like it has long stem parts between the leaves which could indicate a lack of light.

If it is, are the other ones, when looked at one at a time, looking the same?

Just trying to guess my way to the answer of the no-grow phenomenon.

Ingo

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Rotala Pic (crappy pic)

See the circled areas those show little buds that came out pink, but haven't grown any bigger over 3 or 4 days.



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See that Rotala stem in the lower left. It looks healthy, but it's been in that position probably for 3 or 4 days doing nothing.

Here'a wisteria pic:



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Thanks! I hope your right that it's just a nasty trim. Thing that concerns me is the bottoms and the tops aren't growing. Thing I need to address is the relationship between root uptake and leaves for micros. Part of me always thinks I got the eco, so I don't have to worry about micros as much as the next guy, although I have been dosing 5ml flourish 3/weekly and sometimes I throw in some flourish trace. Anyway here's a couple of pics of the wistera (looks normal to me) and the stargrass (just about every leave in this pick has some black on it.

BTW - I haven't tested kno3 and po4 in probably 3 weeks, ran out of test stuff (really get sick of testing), but since I ordered some stuff I did reorder a po4 and no3 test (hopefully last one).



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Hmmmm....ok.

Keep an eye on the Rotala. If the new small shoots stop growing and the plant produces new small shoots that also stop growing report back to me, corporal.

If the shoots continue to grow but just stay smaller that's ok, you've just over trimmed.

The fact that the Wisteria is still normal rules out one suspect.

Stop the additional Potassium dosing. You don't need it you'll get enough from the KN03 and KH2PO4.

Stunting has become a problem for some people. It's quite the little controversy in the planted world.Some say it's the CA/Mg ratio going out of whack, some say it's too much Potassium blocking CA uptake , some say it's too much Potassium full stop.It's tricky one , usually hits the same species of plants, looks like a CA problem but's hitting tanks with decent Gh which should plenty of CA.

Got my own opinions but don't want to get into them here. I'm pretty convinced Potassium plays a role somewhere for a very few plants. Difformis is one of them.

I've noticed lately Tom Barr is reccomending Mg additions if the GH is over a certain level as part of EI. Suspect he has his theories on this issue.

I don't think that's what we're dealing with here but back off the extra K and keep an eye on things. If you see pinholes showing on old leaves up the K again. If not leave it out apart from what you are dosing with No3 and PO4.

Sounds like you just over trimmed the plants and knocked them back. Keep a close eye on the Rotala.

You can always get a new bunch of Rotala and watch that. If it grows as normal you've just over trimmed. If it shows the same problem you've got a nutrient issue.

As to your plant mass question. Well if you truly believe that excess nutrients don't cause algae well you don't have to worry about the plant mass in relation to your dosing so much. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I don't think you have a nutrient issue. If you do it's not going to be NO3 or PO4. But you can test them anyway.



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If your GH is 3o dgh or above you should have no need to dose additional CA or Mg.
KH IS 3 GH IS 5

Are you seeing any new growth at all ? When you say stunted has it just stopped or is the new growth coming out really small or twisted not fully formed leaves.
ROTALA - SMALL RED GROWTH, I GUESS I HAVE ENOUGH FE OR LOW NITRATES, WHICH WOULD EXPLAIN STARGRASS PROBLEM?

If it's simply stopped growing , how are the existing/old leaves looking.Are they yellowing or disintegrating ?
NO YELLOW, NO HOLES

The fact that there's roots , even if only small on the tops you re-planted is good. There's hope. I ALSO ENDED UP RUNNING SHORT ON GOOD STEMS SO I REPLANTED SOME STEMS THAT I HAD JUST CUT THE TOPS OFF, SO BASICALLY I REPLANTED THE MIDDLE, NOT MUCH HAPPENING ON THOSE.

Any new leaves looks like their are bits missing?
NO WISTERIA LOOKS AS GOOD AS ALWAYS. LEAVES ARE COMING IN DIFFERENT SHAPES, ETC, BUT IT IS DIFFORMIS.

I guess what surprises me is I didn't change anything and the plants were growing so lush and then (Hits brick wall).

Yes, In addition to no3 and po4 I am using Flourish Potassium. I'm only getting my FE thru Flourish I am not dosing Flourish Iron or any other Iron fert and according to the Fertilator my 5ml dosing 3/weekly would give me .18 ppm for the week and whatever the plant is getting through the Eco.

See what happens when you disappear for too long. Feels like old times, thanks again for meddling

One las thing, In a tank like mine, where it's mostly ground cover and a few thick (was) stands of stems, I'm still not sure how the whole EI calculation fits in. Although Wisteria is taking up a considerable amount of real estate it's low and crawling and I know it's a n03 sucker.

BTW - Observation, It doesn't look like the plants are reacting to light. They aren't reaching toward it.


Last edited by tetratech at 02-Dec-2005 07:03

Last edited by tetratech at 02-Dec-2005 07:27

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And where is Dr. Watson?

Bensaf,

Your explanations are, as usual, wonderful and extremely informative.

tetratech,

I sometimes wonder about my CA as well.

Ingo


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Lets try to break it down a bit.

If your GH is 3o dgh or above you should have no need to dose additional CA or Mg.

Are you seeing any new growth at all ? When you say stunted has it just stopped or is the new growth coming out really small or twisted not fully formed leaves.

If it's simply stopped growing , how are the existing/old leaves looking.Are they yellowing or disintegrating ? Holes ?

The fact that there's roots , even if only small on the tops you re-planted is good. There's hope.

The reason I'm asking these questions. If you are getting new growth but very small, or the older or existing leaves are dying off we're dealing with a nutrient issue. Depending on the answers we can zone in on which one.

If the plant has simply stopped growing and no other signs of problems it's more then likely not a nutrient issue , more one of over zealous pruning. The plant may be just re-establishing. The new roots are interesting. Generally a stressed plant, especially a cutting, takes a bit of time to bounce back. Most of the plants energy is put into producing new roots. The roots are mainly for anchoring not nutrient extraction, it's finding "a home". Once it's found that home and is secured it will then focus on extracting nutrients. Generally from the water column, they extract nutrients through the roots only when the water is lean.

I'm guessing from what you say it may just be a wait a bit thing. If the plant was truly "dead" it wouldn't produce any roots and the existing leaves would decompose pretty quickly.

You answers should clear up the nutrient issue.

Usually when there is a shortage of one or more nutrients the plant will continue to grow but, depending on the nutrients involved, the plant will exhibit stress. Some nutrients are movable by the plant from old growth to new, hence knowing the leaves affected is a big clue.

Bottom line I've never seen a nutrient shortage cause a plant to simply stop growing, rather it will disintegrate or show deformities.

Nutrient toxicities or imbalances on the other hand may cause a plant to stop. I've seen it and I've seen it bad in Rotalas. But it's usually a very select group of nutrients that cause this.Also it's a relatively small selection of plants that get affected. Rotalas are definately one, some Ludwigias, Ammania and strangely enough Wisteria seems a bit fussy about levels of one specific nutrient.Stargrass i'm not sure , as I said never had any. Your answers will tell me a lot.

I can rule out Nitrates. Rotala likes lower NO3 levels , stargrass likes higher levels. If the NO3 was causing a problem for the Rotala, the Stargrass would do well. And vice versa. The fact that it's affecting both rules out No3.

One last question: are you dosing Potassium apart from what is in KNO3 and KH2PO4 ? K2SO4 or KCL ?
If you are can you please look at the newest leaves of your Wisteria and tell me if you see anything unusual. Any new leaves look like they have bits missing ?

I feel like Sherlock Holmes here :%)


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tetratech
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Sorry Bensaf, not sure what I was thinking. I guess I'm always thinking S.A. cause of the fish. What I can't figure out is everything just stopped. I continued to dose everything and it just stopped. I shouldn't say everything. The wistera and hairgrass are fine, but the stargrass and rotala which were so lush just stopped. I don't even see any growth on the replanted tops. First off I have eco-complete, they should be uptaking some stuff from that. I actually tried dosing 5ml of Flourish everyday this week, no change, I even upped my dosing of no3 and po4, nothing, I pulled up some of the replanted tops and found very little root growth. My pho has been a steady 6.4 and kh 3, so that gives me real good co2 levels and my tank has gotten alittle cloudy again, maybe from reduced plant mass or FE dosing. The only thing I'm not really adding is CA/MG, I know I'm getting some from flourish/flourish trace as well and it's in the eco.

I just don't understand how these plants totally stall like this?

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Who knows what's in that magical south american water where Bensaf lives. I bet it's alot different than our water.


Huh ? Have I moved to the depths of Brasil without knowing it ?
But I can tell you my S.E. Asian water is not so magical. Kh of 5-6, Gh 8, pH 7.6 out of the tap. Not the soft tropical water one would expect. Sometimes all we get from the tap is brown sludge. You wouldn't drink it if your life depended on it. It is a perfect temp though. No hot or cold faucet, just one. Water comes out at 26 -28o C. No or very low levels of Chlorine. The fact that if you drank it would doubtless result in you spending 3 days never more then 10 feet from a bathroom would suggest it's a haven of parasites.

Never had Stargrass, for some reason impossible to find here. What I've heard is that it's a real hungry plant, likes high levels of everything. Most seem to think the black is caused by a shortage of Iron.

Increasing micros is usually a good idea in a well growing tank. The lack of color in your Rotala recently would also indicate low micros, especially Iron. I'd try increasing micros or at least give an extra shot of chelated FE.

In my own tank which is almost the same size as yours I dose 10ml of TMG and 5ml of Chelated FE 3 x week. Works well.

Almost forgot, The UV. I've never used one. But as you mentioned I know a lot of good planted people do use them. Can't see a reason where they would be detrimental.Even in the unlikely event they affected some of the micros it's real easy to add more to compensate. I think it's one of those thing that's by no means neccessary, but if you can afford it it's a nice tool to have at your fingertips. Go for it.

Last edited by bensaf at 01-Dec-2005 21:11


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Others say that they create an environment that is as far from nature as can be as a sterile river/pond/lake does simply not exist.


Meh, trimmed and groomed rotalla and wisteria also are found nowhere in nature but you don't see me complaining

I'm also curious to see how it works out with your tank tetra, keep us posted


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I did alot of thread reading before buying. But your right, people are on both sides of the fence. It falls in that "if it ain't broke, why bother" category, but I think it makes sense for me.

I did read that someone named "Greg Watson" uses one 24/7 and he's in the states. Who knows what's in that magical south american water where Bensaf lives. I bet it's alot different than our water.

Others say that they create an environment that is as far from nature as can be as a sterile river/pond/lake does simply not exist.
Some do say that, but others say it actually mimics nature more since their are more problems in a closed ecosystem than in nature where rain, runoff, etc is constantly refreshing things. Remember the only thing sterlized is the stuff moving thru the water colum. Like GW algae, pathogens, etc. The bacterial filter is unaffected since it's affixed to things. If Greg Watson - Mr Ferts is running one 24/7, I'm not too concerned about the ferts. As you said it will be interesting and that's part of the fun.

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Yeah tetratech,

It sounds interesting. I know there are many debates about them destroying all kinds of bacteria the good ones and the bad ones (whatever that means). Others say that they create an environment that is as far from nature as can be as a sterile river/pond/lake does simply not exist.

Personally, I would like to see the long term consequences you get while using it. It sure makes sense with regards to the Cardinal sensitivity.

Ingo


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Nowher,

I bought this one at BigAls. Treats up to 125g

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22513;category_id=3247

I would love to support my LFS, but this unit would probably be twice as much if you could even find it.

Last edited by tetratech at 01-Dec-2005 12:36

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From what I'm reading it probably will take a few days and different flow rates kill different things, so I might have to tinker with it.

On the otherhand if it doesn't work, look for the big sale on Ebay in a few days titled:

"Tetratech Special - Complete GW Tank Setup"

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Well, it's been about a month since I changed my diffusion from the hagen ladder to a micro-airstone inside my filter intake and it's working flawlessly. My co2 is in the steady high 30's and I've had no problem with my filter either mechanically or biologically. If my biological filter was destroyed I would expect some nh3 to show up and it's testing zero. Although in a large tank that's planted how much of the bacteria is actually in the filter as compared to the tank itself.

The only maintenance on this diffusion method is that "gunk" does build up on the airstone and it must be cleaned or probably replaced every few months.

I also like the ability to adjust my spraybar so the it's either below or slightly above the water line so the co2 enriched water either goes in under water or I can create alittle bubbling.


Last edited by tetratech at 14-Dec-2005 14:14

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I have to say I really enjoy the UV sterilizer, so I put together my 5 favorite reasons for having one.

5. If I&#8217;m thirsty during the day I could drink the water
4. I could dance around my tank and shout, &#8220;try to get cloudy, just try it&#8221;
3. I could stir up my substrate and say &#8220;like that, how bout that, and that.
2. No more willow branches ever

And the number one reason is:

Go ahead make my day you protist!




Last edited by tetratech at 15-Dec-2005 07:57

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# 6 (pending): Keeps cardinals alive!!! Hallelujah!


Tetra man, you're really making me jealous with this UV talk. Right now I'm banking on, lack of po4 is my limiting factor which is stunting my plants and allowing algae to bloom - I'll remedy that problem this weekend. C'mon po4, dont make me get that UV sterilizer...

Glad to see it's working out for you


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Yes the cardinals! I'm going to buy another batch this weekend and see if any effect on the survival rate. Right now I'm down to 10 from my first 21.

Actually I know you said you lost a fish after 2 years, my albino bn died the other day after having him about 2 years. Fish will die, it's that simple.



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"5. If I&#8217;m thirsty during the day I could drink the water
4. I could dance around my tank and shout, &#8220;try to get cloudy, just try it&#8221;
3. I could stir up my substrate and say &#8220;like that, how bout that, and that.
2. No more willow branches ever

And the number one reason is:

Go ahead make my day you protist!"

Oh no, he lost it

Live is going to be boring for tetratech now that his arch enemy is defeated

Ingo



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Not so fast LF,

There's now the 12 gallon high light tank... cross your fingers...


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LF,
Don't worry something else will come up.

Nowher,
Thanks for remaining me. I'm already seeing alittle BGA in that tank. (You could start laughing LF)



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Ok Then




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Well it's been a while since I posted some pics. Really hasn't been much change since some of my stem plants stalled. In this pic my main rotala grouping is growing really well. I've already trimmed it once and replanted so you can't really appreciate it behind the rock yet. I've also decided to replant the tops of my stargrass after watching it just kinda freeze. It wasn't dying or melting it just was't doing anything. I am now noticing some fresh bigger leavess coming out of the replanted tops.





Last edited by tetratech at 18-Dec-2005 11:58

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Here's the pic:

tetratech attached this image:


BTW - I replaced that ugly eheim intake with a black marineland one, it's alittle short, I need to get an extension, but now there is really nothing distracting from the layout and I don't really need to plant to cover something up in the future. I like that flexibility.

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To be honest with this tank if I simply had wisteria surrounding all the protruding hardscape and had a big school of lemons, blues or something dramatic I would probably like it. Because the simplicity would show of the big school of fish more I think. But I'm going to regrow my stems in the center as I did before.



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This pic from the left size will show the rotala and some fresh growth on the Stargrass (bottom left). I find this plant very strange and from what I have read many other do as well. I would like to see what Bensaf would do with it if he ever got his hands on some.

Pic looking through the left, see how clear my sterilized water is.



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Another shot thru the right side. The main rock is about 3 feet thru the tank and you could see how clear it is (nowher - not rubbing it in, just showing the facts)



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Here's a good shot of my colored up ram and his/hers mate, friend, partner:%)

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I know many consider the wisteria to be a weed, but it really grows soft and billowy in my tank;



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tetratech,

I hope the rotala and star grass group will come back nicely. I really like the shot of the Ram, what a lovely color it has.

And when I talk about the Wisteria as a weed then I don&#8217;t mean that in a negative manner. I agree that it is a lovely plant, in particular when one is able to tame it so it crawls

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Love the little oto in the last pick, and those rams are so cute! I finally found Bolivian rams at Big Al's in Edmonton, couldn't find them anywhere else in the city. Poor Buddy the betta may not get his 10g tank, a ram may move in on him.
The tank looks great, I also really like the simplicity of it. Very Zen! It must be very relaxing to sit and watch, if one doesn't have any water issues to worry about. I find I sit and watch the tanks until I start dozing off, they are not as Zen as yours but they have the same relaxing effect on me.

Does the UV sterilizer impact the biological filter at all? It is certainly keeping the tank all nice and clear!


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nowher - not rubbing it in, just showing the facts


I know. The tank looks great. Just out of curiosity, how big were your bolivans when you got them?


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Thanks for the comments

Luv,
No the UV will not impact bio-filter. It only impacts things that are free floating and pass through the UV and yes I find my tank very relaxing as well.

Nowher,
The big ram with all the color I've had about 18 months and I think he/she was the size of the smaller one I that I've only kept a few months.

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Ok thanks. I've been looking around for bolivians. Found a store with them, but they seem pretty full grown, 2 inches or so already. But i found another store selling german blues and they were maybe 1/2 to 3/4 inch long. I'd like to buy them smaller rather than larger, but i wasn't sure if maybe it was common practice for stores to sell them larger rather than smaller. Oh well, thanks.


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NowherMan6,

Problem with buying them smaller is that it is almost impossible to sex them. And don't you want to have a nice pair?

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If you want to be sure you have a nice pair and you can't buy a bunch then take them back, the best way is to contact a breeder that has established pairs already. I think tetra got lucky in that his two seem to have formed a domestic partnership, they could just have easily been fighting. I'll see about the rams, maybe i will maybe i won't go for it, but just wanted to see what tetras expereince was with buying them.


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From my experience in about 6 different lfs's I haven't seen any really small and your right the blue rams I have seen smaller sizes, but remember the bolivian is a bigger fish so I guess you need to judge size accordingly.

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I'm definitely seeing some nice new growth now on my stems and I think I might have bottomed out on something due to my low EI dosing and test kits being tough to interpret.
Bensaf did warn about this and I think it explains alot of the stalled growth.

Current dosing

3/weekly
no3 - .5 tsp
po4 - .05 tsp
flourish - 10ml
flourish trace - 5ml

Current levels

co2 38 to 57 ppm (no way to know for sure)
ph 6.2 to 6.4
kh 2.5 to 3
no3 20ppm
po4 2 ppm
temp 78f



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tetratech,

I would like to bring something up again that we have talked about recently (yesterday or so) in other threads.

I don't think it is a problem though, but 20ppm should be, by EI standards, the maximum that is reached before the next 50% water change. I know that Tom Barr also mentioned that No3 can go up to 30ppm without problems for the fish, but I am curious why you try to have a constant of 20ppm.

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but I am curious why you try to have a constant of 20ppm.
I'm really doing it to see if it will bring back new life to my stargrass. I understand it likes high no3. I am noticing nice new growth with those big full leaves that I had when I first bought the plant. I'll post some pics tonite. As you could see I've upped everything in my tank and have seen no sign of new algae. Of course I have the UV, but on the plants very little. The only place I'm having an issue is on the hairgrass which I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the maintenance. Even with the flow directed there, everything still get's caught in it and there is definitely BBA in their as well.

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The few pieces of Hairgrass in my tank have never done anything

By now they have been taken over by the Glosso and only 2 or 3 stronger sections still fight for survival. But that was a battle that I foresaw a while back anyways.

My Hairgrass also always stayed a dull dark green which I think is not too nice for a ground covering plant, I like it brighter at the bottom.

Maybe you should give the Glosso a try

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My foregrounds gonna be a tough one, because the wisteria I thing has a similar color to glosso and many other foregrounds so it's not really gonna show that well. My tank might be better suited for a few small foreground plants scattered around in front of the wistera with open space. I pulled up a few of the hairgrasses and they have grown quite and extensive runner system but many as I said I covered in BBA.

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tetratech,

You remember a few weeks back when I treated my tank with Excel for all kinds of algae?

The one that did not come back was BBA, maybe it is worth a try.

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I guess so, what did you do treat like 5 times normal dose right for a few days?

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Nooooooo,

First I treated the tank to a full dose, means the amount for the total gallons (because there was no Excel in the tank yet) - 50ml

Next I used the same full dosage again because I did a 50% water change. - 50ml

The next 5 or 6 days I used a limited dosage just as a refresher - 20ml

And that was it, I could see the algae turn red and die.

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I meant the 5 times regular dose not the initial or wc dose.

Another thing I'm realizing in regards to high no3 is that it seems that the stargrass likes it, but I know to get a reddish hue on the rotala you need to keep no3 lean, so see it's hard to be balanced on everything. I've started over the last few days to stop my uv during the day so when I dose FE the plants will take it all in, in case the UV is unchelating it.

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A couple of new pics and a couple of changes. First a full frontal. I decided to remove most of the hairgrass. It was growing and it pained me to take it out, but it was a pain in the hairgrass. Gunk and BBA kept getting stuck to it and when I really looked at my tank the hairgrass really didn't look that great with the wisteria right behind it. I decided to wrap most of my hardscape sorta of on an island of wisteria if you will. As you could see.



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Here's another shot taking from the right front. You could see the Rotala has made a good comeback and was pearling today. I actually saw my wisteria pearling as well, I believe that's a first. If you look closely I left a little patch of hairgrass in the right front.





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To be honest, with the wisteria acting as a carpet midground I like the constrast with the almost black eco-complete. I might put a foreground, but it's gonna have to really work well I think it's neater looking this way with a few scattered rocks and maybe a few scatter grass short plants here and there. Here's a close up shot of stargrass. I pretty much started from scratch with small top clippings, but the new growth is coming in very full like it used to be. I attribute this to increased no3 dosing.



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and the rams continue to be inseparable.

1.



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2.



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and 3. Notice the nice color on the fins in this pic.
they are definitely up to something alot of dancing around and very warm orange coloring.




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really nice man..i love that set up the dark substrate and the light green plants are awesome together and the tank looks like its really thriving..i am in the peak of planting my 46 gal bow and i really enjoy reading ur log!
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While the Wisteria is nice, the way it is now going across the tank at almost the same height, it looks very flat and there's no sense of depth.

Something mixed in with the Wisteria would help. You want to keep what everb goes in there low maintenance.

One option is something like Blyxa Japonica , the grassy look should contrast well with the Difformis.

Different sized rocks covered in either moss or Riccia to form mounds would be nice. Easy enough to maintain, just pull out the rock and trim once in a while.

Just rocks mixed in would be ok, but they'd need to be interesting rocks with varying heights.

What would I do ? A couple of decent size rocks or small pieces of wood, planted with Narrow Leaf Java Fern. 2 or 3 strategically placed. I know I keep going on about NL Fern, but it's an incredibly beuatiful verstaile plant that requires almost zero maintenance. Notice how almost every single tank Amano has done recently is using N.L Fern as centerpieces. In good light the leaves grow out almost horizontally and into a thick ball. Mine is just starting to fill out now and it's almost all horizontal.



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One option is something like Blyxa Japonica , the grassy look should contrast well with the Difformis
Wow you and I on the the same wavelength. I just went shopping and bought a few plants online.

1. Blyxa japonica
2. Eusteralis stellata
3 Didiplis diandre

I obviously know what I want to do with the Blyxa. The other two I plan on kinda placing in and around the rotala to make a centerpiece and softing up all that hardscape. I might not keep them all I'll have to see what works and what doesn't. I guess I was getting bored.

P.S. I'll have to get some NL Fern.


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Wow you and I on the the same wavelength.


That's a pretty scary thought

Nice choices. Those plants would work real well with the look and shape you have. Tricky though.

Stellata needs the nutrients kept well under control and decent light. It'll stunt at least excuse, but once the nutrients are always available it's not so difficult.

The Didiplis can be a bit finnicky, it's like the Stargrass in that it can cause problems for no reason. Mainly the problem is with stems suddenly blackening and rotting. Other then that it's generally fine, nice color.


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Looks nice,

I had Didiplis and Eusteralis on my initial shopping list as well but didn&#8217;t buy them as they are better &#8220;raised&#8221; in a mature tank (which you have by now). Both are to my knowledge pretty light hungry to show their best. In particular the Stellata will need the light to turn the leaf color to a nice reddish tint.

Now I don&#8217;t want to have them anymore because I want to reduce the amount of trimming and replanting I have to do. Obviously you don&#8217;t mind that this much.

Cute Ram couple, I just wish you could make some brighter photos so we could see their beautiful colors a little better.

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I just wish you could make some brighter photos so we could see their beautiful colors a little better
LF - So hard to please.

A few things I think lend themselves to my slightly darker pics.

1. I take most pics at night when I only have 96watts
2. The rams in particular are in in the front and on a bowfront it is a darker area.
3. I have a black background and gravel.
4. I don't have a camera with a high iso setting.

Most really high quality pics of tanks they put extra light above to get better pics, etc.

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LF - So hard to please


That's right

It is just that your Rams have almost convinced me that Bolivians are a very attractive alternative to Germans (Rams - that is). I love to see their colors as they seem to be way more colorful as I imagined them to be.

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When you see the rams in the LFS's they looked more washed out, but after they acclimate they develop better color. The body itself really can't compete with the blues, but he fins are equally flourscent and my big one's body right now as a sort of orange brown tone to it.

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Bolivians are better looking than Germans (rams...) anyway, they have more of that Geophagus "real cichlid" look to them. Can't wait to get mine, although if they dont work out with the yo-yos then i dunno what to do.

And tetra, take a chair, stack a couple books/ phone books/ dicitonaries on it and stick that camera on top. Set 10 second timer, shutter 1/40, f/2.8, fire away! Then 1/30, then 1/20 and so on...


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Bolivians are better looking than Germans (rams...) anyway


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

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And tetra, take a chair, stack a couple books/ phone books/ dicitonaries on it and stick that camera on top. Set 10 second timer, shutter 1/40, f/2.8, fire away! Then 1/30, then 1/20 and so on...

Thanks Nowher, I actually use a tripod on many picks and the rams are one of the easier fish to catch using those shutterspeeds because they have a stop and go motion, but for example tetras are much harder.

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder


I know, I just assumed everyone agreed with me because, well, I'm so damn smart


Aaaaaaanyway, tetra, looking at the way you've been tinkering with your tank, do you plan on keeping things low? I know you just ordered some new plants, but is the plan to keep them low the way the rotala and stargrass are growing? It seems like that piece of driftwood is the highpoint in your tank, just wondering if youre going to keep it that way or grow over/ around it.


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I plan on growing the rotala and any othe stem in the middle pretty high. I'd like it to be that the middle DW only is seen from the top half. I other DW left and right will be surrounded by low cover. I think my new plants are coming today.

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O.K. this is 1/5, 2.7.



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Well I got my plants today.

The BLYXA is much taller than I thought. I have 9 total stems. I'm going to put them in groups of 3's. I don't know if that will be to crowded, I never worked with the plant before.

The EUSTERALIA has a really thick stalk and is very purple.I have 3 stalks, again group of 3 is that too crowded.

The DIDIPLIS loooks like it gonna be alot of work, I was almost tempted not to bother with it, but I put it in.





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Nice picture of the ram

I think Eusteralis and Didiplis are not planted with multiple stems together. They should be so far apart that the leaves don&#8217;t shade each other.

The Blixa I don&#8217;t know, sorry.

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My ram is really freaking me out. It's colors keep changing like a chamelon. This pic is not altered.
It now has a aqua color dorsal fin.



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Very nice, but I can't get past the time lapse shot of the cardinal, very pretty

That may be a good idea for a shot: keep the camera at a low angle, looking upwards in the tank, then try to get a very slow shutter speed shot of the cardinals against the black background


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This that would be very nice Nowher.

BTW- I planted all my new plants, I'll try to post pic tonite. I'm having a hard time getting used to the variety, but we'll see what I keep and what I don't.



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Interesting color change.

Is that the smaller one? Looks like a female belly marking there (or my imagination is running wild).

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Nope that's the big one.
This guy was a $5 fish from Petco about 18 months ago.


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O.K Here's the new layout



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New Layout with Labels



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tetratech,

So far, the new plants look good. It is going to be interesting to see how they look once they have grown in. Most of the time I see the Stellata and the Diandra used as streets while you seem to use them as bushes. I wonder if you have to cut the front ones rather often to maintain the picture of a full group rather then having long stems visible. Time will tell .

I also like that we finally get to see your tank with some light on it .

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Thanks LF,
As I said I'm more into an overall dramatic look than growing different plants, so I might not even keep all these in. I also have alot of plants that have reddish and purple hues and it will be interesting to see how well they color up with the UV running. I might start putting it on a timer to run only at night.

BTW - Looks like after I started my cardinal addition back on Nov. 10th I hav ended up with 10 solid ones out of 21.
I'll probably add one more batch and see if the UV keeps the infections away that they seem to get during the first week of acclimation.

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Adding more Cardinals sounds like a good idea, if you made up your mind that they are the ones of which you would like to have a BIG school.

And serves as a nice Xmas present to yourself as well .

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Rams have spawned! This explains all the color changes, etc.

Pics and details to follow

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Uh

tetratech is a father yet again

How exciting, what now? Large school of Rams?

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Eggs have been located on a piece of petrified wood all the way in the back. The smaller ram is guarding the nest. I already saw small agression for the first ime when the annoying pencilfish got close. I'm playing catch up now and trying to read up on them. I know they take turns guarding the nest so I'm still not sure which is the boy/girl. I've read there sometimes not the best of parents, but they are suppose to grab fry in their mouth when they stray to far.

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Congrats tetra

They may eat this batch though... after a few more they should get the hang of it. The parenting, that is.

If you do raise these up, you may want to consider selling one or two to your old pal NowherMan6, maybe?


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Thanks Nowher, if I do raise some a few have your name on it. I just read that the fry ar sensitive to nitrate, so that could pose a problem right there. They usually hatch in 3 days. If that happens I guess I will try and scope out a few and put them in an empty 5gallon I have or I guess I could hang a breeder tank on the 72.

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Putting them up in the spare 5g sounds good. Wouldn't want that hanging breeder tank to ruin the polished look of your tank

It must be nice to actually be able to see where and when your cichlids bred. When my Brevis breed the only way I know is when I see 10 more fry wriggling along the sand...


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Wouldn't want that hanging breeder tank to ruin the polished look of your tank
This is true, especially since I just got my new plants. Did you notice pic a few posts up.

Anyway, I don't know exactly when they spawned but the choice a small piece of petrified wood all the way in the back that is partially covered by wisteria, but I could see the eggs. Gonna try to get a pic, might be tough. I could remove the entire rock and put it in the 5g. I was reading about how aquarists artifically raise them, but one I don't really want a 100 fry, two it will probably freak out the rams and might cause stress. I understand they could breed every few weeks.

Last edited by tetratech at 23-Dec-2005 09:37

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Here's a shot of the eggs taken from above the tank.

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NowherMan6
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Yes I did see the pics up top. In my opinion it already gives the tank a bit more dynamic, contrasting leaf shapes to the bottom which is dominated by wisteria. I'm not sure what LF means by it's normally used for "streets", but it will be interesting to see how it grows in.

And re the rams - if they're anything like brevis, they may be cycle spawners - they may spawn every two weeks or so, then stop for a month or so, then pick up the cycle again.

EDIT: Wow! That's actually a very clean shot. Well done... yep, that's a proud parent keeping watch there.

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 23-Dec-2005 09:47


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Thanks Nowher, I guess the smaller one is the female, because she on the eggs most of the time and the other one is in the area, pushing fish away. Even if some do survive and I scoop them out, do you know if it's a must to feed them new hatched brine shrimp.

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Even if some do survive and I scoop them out, do you know if it's a must to feed them new hatched brine shrimp.


I don't know about it being a must. I've been feeding my fry frozen abby brine shrimp/ brine sheimp eggs. They also go for finely crushed flake that falls to the bottom. When they get a little bigger I notice they go after sinking New Life Spectrum small cichlid pellets, which is always funny because the pellets are about the size of their heads Never got them to grow any bigger than that, because at that point they get big enough that they're not as quick and unintrusive as they used to be, and the parents eat them Then a new batch comes along. Ah, the circle of life.

Anyway, you could also try putting a patch of java moss down near the eggs. That will help cultivate some little bits of algae and what not that the fry will use to feed themselves. They're surprisingly good at feeding themselves once free swimming.


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Thanks for the fry advice. I guess I'll have my 5aga (future nano) ready for the fry if it gets that far. If the fry are sensitive to no3 I don't know if any will make it anyway.

I'm not sure what LF means by it's normally used for "streets", but it will be interesting to see how it grows in. He's referring to scaping a plant from back/mid to the front of the tank so it looks like a "street" between plants. This is popular in dutch tanks which my tank definitely is not. I've actually seen the plant in question used many ways. Look I'm using wisteria as ground cover.

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"Streets"

Are you talking about me?

Yeah, I know your reputation as wisteria tamer, that's why I say it will be interesting to see how these turn out.

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Yeah who else.

It's been an interesting week:

1. New plants
2. New eggs
3. Bigger shrimp

Let me explain number 3. I found what I thought was a dead shrimp, but it was simply the old skin after the yamato shrimp molted. I have 2 yamatos and one is huge. These guys stay 24/7 in that piece of tall DW in the middle of my tank. I think they are feeding off of the javamoss. I might add a bunch more. LF, you might want to consider a crew as well. Maybe they will help with the thread algae.




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You know,

just the other day I was looking at shrimp and there are a few kinds that I liked, like Amano shrimp and Red Cherry shrimp etc.

I am just thinking that I might hold off with them until I finally know where what plant in my tank will end up. I am too worried that I might kill them by mistake during my replanting events.

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I guess that could happen. The cherry shrimp definitely show up better. The Amano/Yamato are almost invisible on driftwood,etc. The ghost are almost completely invisible.
I don't see that many cherries around me and when I do they are expensive. I pay about $3 each for the Amano.

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New colorful plants, big shrimp and 100 little eggs what more could one want for the holidays.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS to all! Be safe and enjoy

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HAPPY HOLIDAYS to you too, tetratech.

Hope you still can make time though to keep us posted on the egg situation.

Ingo


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I'll be around LF. I'll have to decide if I want to intervene if I do see baby rams swimming around. I might try and pull a few out and put them in the 5g I mentioned.
I read an article of aquarists artifically raising the fry by putting the eggs in a small tank with an airstone and a heater and then raising them that way, but that would require me removing the rock they are on. Don't think I'm going to do that.

Happy Holidays - LittleFish!


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[font color="#C00000"]Well, if you do happen to save some then please save me a mated pair if possible! lol I have been looking for bolivians everywhere and I cannot find any near me at all! It really stinks because I want a pair for my 55 SO bad! Yours are so pretty I would LOVE to have a pair from yours! [/font]

[font color="#C00000"]Happy [/font] [font color="#008000"] Holiday [/font] [font color="#C00000"] Everyone!!![/font]
[font color="#008000"]Have fun tomorrow, and make sure to stuff yourelves to the fullest extent! [/font]


[font color="#000080"]Christina[/font]


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Just popping in to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas. Hope you all have a good one.

Living in Indonesia, I don't have any holidays as it falls on a Sunday this year. I'll probably spend tomorrow trying to finding somewhere that has a good Turkey dinner on offer.Hmmmmmmm......roast spuds I miss me spuds

Enjoy yourselves.

Congrats on the fry tetra Green water is great fry food btw , maybe you can borrow a cupful from nowhere


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Same to you Bensaf, a Merry Christmas for you and family.

maybe you can borrow a cupful from nowhere
That or pull the plug on my UV

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O.K. Eggs were moved to a borrow and have hatched in the substrate. Fry are not free swimming yet, but remain in borrow as the male stays over them.

The male is under a leaf of the Didiplis diandre.





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Last edited by tetratech at 27-Dec-2005 11:02
[/font]

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That is fantastic tetratech,

It seems like there are quite a few of them in the circle. Are the other fish showing interest in the little wigglers?

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Instinct is an amazing thing. The borrow is down low between a piece of driftwood and a rock where there was no wisteria. So the ram is down there and the fish are passing right over it. Once the babies become free swimming that's when the other fish are going to go crazy.

Here's the location of the borrow. Th ram actually uprooted some of the Didiplis diandre and threw eco on the wisteria.





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Nice,

Are you interested in removing the fry to a net breeder or something like that?

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I'm going to attempt to remove some of them to either a breeder net or the spare 5g I have. I've also heard that the fry do not do well with high no3 levels, so if that's true none might survive. I think in this case my no3 at 20ppm would be high to non-planted tank aquarists.

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Some new pics. Close up of the rotala and Didiplis diandre which is growing nicely. In the front you could see some of the the Blyxa which is also taking root.



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Closeup of the Stargrass that has made a comeback after cutting it way back.



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Full shot from right front.



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I leave to go home for a week and boy do I miss a lot! Your tank looks very nice like this and congrates on the rams doing their thing. I started looking for some rams over my break and I had to hold my self back from buying them. I have to pay the rent first.


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Looking nice tetratech,

But, now I am wondering if the leaf structure of Didiplis Diandra, Star Grass, and Rotala Indica is too similar and the plants blend too much into each other.

There should be some color differences between them though, but I cannot really tell from the pictures.

The Blixa looks very nice; It will be interesting to see how it grows. If I remember that right then it can reach a medium height which would fit that area just nicely.

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But, now I am wondering if the leaf structure of Didiplis Diandra, Star Grass, and Rotala Indica is too similar and the plants blend too much into each other.
Had a feeling you might say that. I guess we know each other very well.

Actually what you can't see is that the Stella wideleaf is between the Didiplis and the Rotala. Also what's good about DW is that it breaks up to plants that are similiar in structure. So far the diandra is coming in very green and the rotala has a pinkish hue. When I bought these plants I think I stated that I might not even keep them all in the tank, since I prefer the natural drama to a tank as opposed to growing a large variety.

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I guess we know each other very well


I guess that is what over 1500 back and forth posts will do for you

And yes, you stated that you might not want to keep them. Same here, I already eliminated quite a few plants from my original plant purchase. It is always easier to see how something looks in your tank if you actually have it in there rather than having to imagine it.

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Not sure about this E. Stellata Broad Leaf. The main stem was bent over when I received it and it never straightened up. So now it has sort of a gooseneck shape with new growth coming out of the top. The new growth is light green so I guess it colors up as it matures. (Assuming it get's enough FE).

Here's a pic. I've duplicated the stem shape with the with line. The actual stem is right above it, but it might be hard to see. The Blyxa is in the foreground and so far is my favorite plant out of the three I ordered. You could see the Diandra to the right behind the driftwood.

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Here's a better pic of the E. Stellata Broad Leaf the red circle shows where it's planted the white cycle shows where the top of the stem is going back up to the light. As I said it has a gooseneck shape now.



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Here's a good pic showing some of the constrast in the tank now between different leaf shapes and hardscape.

LF, from this pic the Diandra and the Rotala do look similiar but the don't look as similiar in the tank and the E. Stellata is separating them. Everything is looking good and there isn't any algae on any of the plants. The only place I do see BBA is on the DW and rocks.





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Looking very nice tetratech,

I will wait a while and see what growth the Blixa will take on. I could see it replacing my rather boring Dwarf Sag and Chain Sword, at least in some places.

Good job ,

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Yes, I agree with both of you. The bottom actually is more realistic. I think in the real world the tank looks alittle lighter.

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Yeah,

Without a doubt I like the bottom one better as well.

It shows the color differences so much better.

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including Amano


Oh, of course. He's a photographer just as much as an aquascaper... I noticed a lot of little tricks and even photoshopping in the photos of his tanks - its all about making them look good, afterall

Personally the bottom one looks much better. Much warmer, brings out the reds nicely and leaves the black background black, rather than rendering it with a blueish hue. And notice how the tungsten setting renders the reds greyish or white, washing them out completely. Blegh!

Tungsten doesn't looks good in tank shots, mainly because we don't used tungsten lights over them, we use fluorescent i find that either a fluorescent setting or even regular daylight (probably what your camera chose) look the best. The tungsten WB makes it look like you're using an actinic light over the tank.

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This is more a photography question. These two pics are pretty much the same except the top one was taken with a white balance setting of Tungsten and the lower pic is with a auto white balance. Your suppose to match the white balance setting to your light source to get the most accurate pic. With photography you could try to match the real conditions or use a setting which looks best. Let's face it many of the high scapes you see I'm sure do just that, including Amano. Which of these pics do you prefer.



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LF

Do you think cutting it shorter would help? I don&#8217;t know, just guessing.
Well, I'm going to cut off the tops once the new growth get's bigger. It's one big stalk so I don't want to cut back yet. From what I understand the bottoms sometimes don't grow or take a few long time to regrow.

It does get light from pretty much straight above.

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I think the Wisteria might have told the Stellata that you are into the flat design and all the Stellata tries to do is to please you so you don&#8217;t have to pack out that whip .

Do you think cutting it shorter would help? I don&#8217;t know, just guessing.
Does it get light from straight above or slightly from the front?

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Believe it or not your second guess is much closer.
I put a skewer bbq stick in there to help the stella grow straight up. It keep growing into the rotala and another piece into the diandra.

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I'm sure LF will find it.


Hm &#8211; first guess would be red, aka dying, brush algae on the rock in the left front.

Next guess, and more remote, one of the stems from the Stellata is actually a Willow branch

But I stick with the first guess

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Frank

It has been said that UV light oxidizes some traces, most notably Fe making it unusable by the plants. I haven't been able to find any scientific data to back this.


LF,
Thanks, I was just going to upload my wisteria photo album.
I removed the Blyxa from the right because I thought it looked kinda lost. I think I need to add a rock or something so it looks like it's part of the main group.

There is something unusual in this photo, I'm sure LF will find it.




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tetratech,

You never bore us with pictures , except if you show us the Wisteria in 10 shots in a row from just slightly different angles .

I think there is some wonderful healthy growth there. In particular the Star Grass put out some large leaves.

Why did you remove the Blixa from the right side?

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Hi,
I missed something... Why would a UV light affect the
Fe in a tank?
Frank


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Here's a shot of the rotala that has come back. I see alot of red, so I guess the UV isn't having a big impact on the availability of FE for the plants.





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A closer shot of the front of the tank. You could see I removed the wisteria from the middle and it'a pretty much Blyxa there. I'm not sure I love it, I need to fine-tune and blend it more with the surrounding flora. I like this shut because you could clearly tell it's a bowfront tank with the black edging left in.



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Well since Bensaf is still cleaning the algae off his glass, I'll have to bore everyone with some more pics.

This first shut is a comparison with today and a few weeks ago (13 days) to exact. In the top photo you can't see the stargrass because it's too low and 13 days later a hugh change.



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Did a cardinal count today and I counted 9. This is from a total of 21 purchased from a few different stores about 2 months ago.

So after 2 months I ended up with a 43% survival rate.
At an average of $2.08 per fish and taking into account the 43% survival rate this brings the average cost per surviving fish to $4.86. So if this average holds and I want to have a solid school of 40, it would cost me a whopping $194 to establish the school.

Now I haven't introduced any since I got into the wonderful world of UV Sterlization. So I'm not sure how that would affect the survival rate.


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My thoughts exactly. That would look really cool on a small acrylic tank with green coming out the top.

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Great choice, I also planned on getting at least one of these for my smaller tanks when they materialize. Nice looking and should do the job.


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Yeah that does happen. If I had to do it again I would have gotten a prenup for like 10 fish tanks max. You don't want to get greedy

I was thinking about getting this filter to have around it would also look good with an open-top nano tank

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9821&amp;N=2004+22769

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Sorry to hear you've been cut off.. I guess I better start collecting tanks now before I tie the knot


That set-up should work fine for now with the fry. I think at this stage it's important to keep the water very clean and not just for the usual reasons... as they grow these little fish are releasing natural hormones that impede the growth of their siblings. It's all natural selection and the like, but if you want them all to grow up big and strong using AC or in this case water changes is a good idea.


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Thanks nowher, see post a few up. I can't have another tank (my wife will take my sawsall to them) so I have 3 options.

BTW - My surviving fry are in a 5g aga bowfront with:

Airstone
Some java moss covered rocks (removed from my 12g)
Wisteria cuttings (I find so many uses)
No filter, 50% wc every other day.

Any comments?

Last edited by tetratech at 03-Jan-2006 11:01

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Just my opinion, but if you're really intent on breeding rams and selling the offspring, or raising them etc. then you might as well do it right and set up a breeding tank for them and a grow out tank for the fry. It's a tough sell to put all that work into aquscaping your main tank and then plopping a big divider into the it and cutting off part of it. Breeding tanks wouldnt be too much work, no substrate, low lighting with a few pieces of slate for them to breed on, and a few clumps of java moss.


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As far as Blyxa I think the height depends on the light.
I like that "height depends on light" anyway if the light is strong it will grow bushier if not as intense it will grow lankier and taller. It also will turn during colors depending upon light and fert parameters.

Yes, I remember the paritiion. A possible way to go.

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Blixa always intrigued me but I seem to remember that it is capable of reaching at least medium height. This would work fine in tetratech&#8217;s tank but not in mine as I would like to use the plant more in the foreground.

About tank partition: If you care tetratech, look at the [link=First Picture]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/61406.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] in my 29G log. There you can see how I separate the left front corner of the tank with a standard tank divider. I think they might come in your tank height as well.

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Well I can't do another breeding tank so I could do one of these scenerios next time they are ready to spawn.

1. Take my fish in my 12g and put into my 72g and let them spawn in the 12g.

2. Parition my 72g somehow

3. Remove some of the tetras most notability the mini-barracadas (I mean pencilfish) from the tank.

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I will wait a while and see what growth the Blixa will take on. I could see it replacing my rather boring Dwarf Sag and Chain Sword, at least in some places


Great, yet ANOTHER trendy addition to the planted tank... first glass diffusers, then UVs, now this...


Sorry to hear about the further fry loss, but as LF pointed out somewhere above, your rams will breed again, Im sure this wont be the last batch you see.


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This morning I checked on the fry and I believe I have 3 still kicking in the 5gallon tank. They are still tiny being feed only Hikari First Bites.

I can't see any in the 72 although it's possible some have surivived but probably not.



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I don't think your chain sword or sag is boring.
One thing I'm quite certain of is when you do finally add some hardscape it's amazing how plants that you thought looked so so, look much more interesting. Everything reacts off everything else.



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Hey Bensaf whats the diff. from water sprite and wisteria


Wisteria is a stem plant. Water Sprite is actually a rossette type. If you look at the Sprite, the leaves unfurl from a central crown, while it may at first appearance look like a stem with leaves it's actually one big leaf. Wisteria is a stem with 2 leaves on opposite sides per node. It can be trimmed and it will branch out. You can't really trim Water Sprite in the same manner.

Water Sprite is a plant that deperately wants to float and does quite well as a floater. The large leaves will produce plantlets and if left to do this will eventually disintegrate into a lot of plantlets that will float with the roots hanging down. It sucks up a lot of nutrients particularly NO3. You can stop this by trimming off the plantlets as they appear.

Water Sprite grows at alarming speed, definately the fastest growing plant I've ever seen. While very pretty it's not a plant I personally like to use because of the growth rate and tendency to produce so many plantlets. I find the Wisteria easier to maintain and to use in a scape. It's just a bit prettier too IMO.

Both are very easy and can do well in moderately low light. The Water Sprite is definately more tolerant of lower light though.

If you want to fill a lot of space quickly, Water Sprite does that well. For something easier to control and shape Wisteria is the way to go.


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Bensaf,

I knew something was up with his stuff! It just didn't look quite right. Thanks for the ID! I am thinking of sticking that stuff in the back right corner of my tank by my wisteria.

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Hey Bensaf whats the diff. from water sprite and wisteria..J/W because I have water sprite and when I bought it I thought it was wisteria. Thanks in advance!
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I guess I will have to steal some of Bob's wisteria thats like a tree!

Actually I've seen Bob's photo's, he doesn't have any Wisteria. What he's identified as Wisteria is actually Water Sprite, quite similar in looks but completely different in habits.

Tetra, nice av, you look just like I thought you would

Glad you like the Blyxa. Having the right selection of plants in the right places is half the battle.


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And finally a full tank shot in the room because of some guy named Dan.



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The Eusteralis stellata wideleaf is putting out some new growth after the stemmed took on a goosneck shape after planting a few weeks ago. The new growth is mostly green but I could see some purple developing. I think once the new growth is larger enough I will replant the tops.



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My stargrass after almost being eliminated from the tank after it got stunted I think from low no3, has made a major comback and is coming in full after replanting the smallest of tops.



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This is the Blyxa, which I can see why Bensaf recommended it. It really is a beautiful plant and I think once arranged correctly will take me scape to another level.



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Next is the Diandra Didiplis. It's growing well, but staying green so far, this plant can grow quite red, but maybe my 2.7wpg or not enough FE is keeping it green.



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Here's the pic

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Some individual plant shots.

First a shot of the wistera. This plant covers 80% of my substrate and has been growing large lush leaves and staying low.



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Wingdsc,

Looking forward to the pics.

Luvmykrib,
The tools are for trimming leaves and planting. The thing that looks like a spatala is for smoothing out the substrate, etc.

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Nice avatar, your son is really creative!
The tools are nice, what exactly are they for? They look so surgical!
Do the fish flee and hide when they see them coming? ]

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tetratech,

I have kind of been doing such thing. Most of it has just been doing it on its own. I havent really been doing too much trimming. The ones that I have been trimming are bigger side growths with roots coming off of them. Then planting them so the roots are in the gravel. I am actually starting to get a pretty good carpet of wisteria down.

I will have to post a picture pretty soon. I really need to buy a cammera or have some one drop one off at my front steps.....wishfull thinking......

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Very nice Tetra, get 'em started in the hobby early


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Thanks Wingdsc,

One thing I forgot and you might be doing it, is when you cut a top off and you replant it, if you plant it at an angle roots grow along the entire stem and it goes into the substrate. After doing this time and time again, for the most part it stays down. If you plant it straight up you will get some that grow vertically.

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It's nice to know this is how my 12yr old pictures me. Notice the states are fishes.

Here' a similiar version with a statement:







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Yes, Sir that's me. Now you know what I look like.

Here's the full pic:





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Hey tetratech,

Is that supposed to be you head down in the tank?

Now I finally know your secret of taming the Wisteria, you scare it flat with your head right above it .

Seriously, nice drawing by your son

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Yes, I've heard every 4 weeks or so. I could definitely see the appeal of setting up a breeding tank, because it is amazing to see the fry swimming around the parents and protecting them.

BTW - The like the new Avatar, but you had the Beanie Fish for so long it was definitely your ID. I actually plan on changing mine too, because my artist son, give me a t-shirt he made with his own artwork as it relates to my fish hobby. I was going to use some of it for my avatar.


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Sorry to hear that you lost most of your fry

If it is of any condolence I only can say that you are probably going to have this kind of fry event from now on rather often as batch after batch may be laid by the Rams. Eventually you will have more Rams .

Ingo



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Fry Update

This morning was the first time I saw the female ram out n the front again. She had been in the back for about 6 days guarding the fry, so I fear they might all have been eaten. There' just too many tetras in the tank, especially the pencils that seem to go through the plants looking for things.

Out of the 10 or so fry that I removed about 5 days ago from the main tank, 4 are still alive. I think the others either died from lack of nutrients or from a water change that I did that might have been too much for them. I didn't feed BBS, but have been using Hikari First Bites.




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Very Nice Tetratech

I in particular like your tools, maybe one day I post a picture of mine. I still trim my plants with nail scissors though .

Somehow these kind of tools make aquascaping feel like surgery .

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I also got a nice late holiday gift when my wife surprised me with these. I guess she accepts my addiction. She searched for these all on her own.





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First tank photo of the new year. All plants are growing great.



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You have a very good eye. Yes I took that piece out and scrubed it to get some of the BBA off it. I know it's not going to cure it, but I cleaned it up and put it in facing the other way. I'm going to move it back.

Almost forget about this pic. You could see the diandra behind it.



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Yup,

All the growth you listed above is clearly visible.

But what happened to the driftwood on the left? It looks like it came lose from the main group?

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Yes, your looks full as well, very similar to mine. (I don't see any algae)

Here's a compare shut from about a week ago when I first replanted the tank. You could see good growth with the Diandra and the rotala. The Blyxa also got much fuller. The E.Stella which actually looks smaller in the second pic because one of the stalks melted. Not sure why it looked the same as the other. Also many of teh original leaves came off, which is probably normal for a broadleaf plant.



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tetratech,

The Star Grass is truly looking very nice again.

I have added a few small stems to my big tank a while ago when I redid the 20G. They have grown into a nice little group themselves that is on the right front corner of the tank. I think it would look nice if I replaced some sections of the Dwarf Sags with them, but your experience surely makes me hesitant to try it out. Last thing I need is a dying plant that leaves a gaping hole in the scape.

Anyways, here it is:

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Check out the Stargrass. It's growing well again. But for how long (talk about being alittle off) Stargrass is a headcase. The circles are areas on the hardscape that have BBA. Nothing on the plants just the rocks and wood.



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Thanks luvmykrib

Well I'll see how the babies do. I really don't have a grow out tank for them right now, unless I put them back in the 72 when they're big enough.

I find bolivians pretty easy to find in my area, but they are pricey at about $10 - $12 a piece. The one that had the babies was a petco special at $5.


Bensaf,
Good to know. The mom has abandoned the burrow and is moving around the back of the plants with the fry. I guess I won't have to feed any of my fish for a while.


Last edited by tetratech at 30-Dec-2005 11:46

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Congrats Tetra! I went away for a week and you had babies! Well at least the rams did. Very nice, glad you decided to raise some. Will you keep them or sell them? Some fish stores would buy them as they seem to be hard to find. There's only one place I found them here. The tank is looking very good.

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I'm alittle concerned because I don't think the ram hasn't eaten much for many days.


Don't worry about it. You'd be amazed at how many weeks a fish can go without food. She'll eat when she's ready.


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Isn't breeding fish fun

I also have Hikari First Bites for my first batch of platy fry. I gave it to them and I believe to remember that they were better at eating finely crushed flakes. But hey, if they eat it - feed it .

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I passed a petsmart today and I bought Hikari First Bites.
It's tiny tiny pellets that sink slowly. Probably just a marketing thing and the crushed flakes are probably just as good, but I bought them anyway as well as some brine shrimp mix. They also had a liquid fry food made by Wardley's but that one I passed on. It's really interesting to watch the ram with the fry. Every once in a while the fry in the 72g venture above the wisteria they attract the attention of the other fish and when the other fish come close the ram comes well ramming out and pushes the fish away. So far I have about 12 in the 5 and I plan on putting another 10 or so in.

EDIT: Very impressed with Hikari First Bites. It looks like little daphina when it sink into the water. The fry went for it immediately.





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Boy oh Boy,

I guess I need glasses .

Glad you circled the spots, I would not have seen anything.

But whatever you did circle seems rather large, I guess finely crushed flakes might work then.

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A first pic of the fry. Tough to get a good one, but here are some.


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Here's a first pic of the fry setup. It's backed against the side of my 72g. I wanted an open-top nano but this wasn't the exact idea I had. Not only is it a nano but so are the fish.




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Glad you got the UV. You probably won't see much improvement the first few days, but after that it gets good.

I came home just before to some very fat and jolly cardinals, looks like they sampled the buffet first. I took gravel wash and sucked about a dozen babies directly into the 5 gallon. I'll put some micro pellets and crushed flake food and also put in some javamoss and a few BBA covered rocks.



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Nowher you said last of the pea soup. did you order the UV


Not ordered, went out and bought one, and it's just been hooked up I'm going to post details in my log, but right now the set-up is temporary, because there's more tubing and equipment in/ around the tank than I'd like.


Re: the rams. I see what you're saying about not wanting to raise them all. That's the way I feel about the brevis fry. I feed them, and if they grow up, they grow up, if they get eaten, they get eaten. The parents may very well turn on them once they get a little bigger, they'll know when it's time for those fry to be off. I'm sure this wont be the only time your rams breed


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At closer look the fry are free swimming. They are moving all around the mother ram in the general area of the burrow. The ram has been on top of the borrow for about 4 days now. I haven't seen it leave to eat. I guess my original ram was a female, becuase the other ram has not been near the borrow for days. This ram is actually a really good parent. Fanning and protecting the fry, I'm alittle concerned because I don't think the ram hasn't eaten much for many days.

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They'll peck at rocks and plant leaves, eating things we have no idea are there
Yes, I do agree, especially in a heavily planted tank where there are more things to peck at and more places to hide. If I let nature take it's course maybe I'll end up with a few. When people setup breeder tanks, fry tanks, bascially hand feed they are looking to keep the majority of the fry alive. So letting them find their own food might be the difference between 5 making it and 50 making it. I'm not really equipped right now to deal with 50 to 100 fry anyway, but I'll probably suck out a few into the 5 and see how it goes. I'll add some plant clippings and javamoss covered rocks. There's always alot of goodies in javamoss.

BTW - Nowher you said last of the pea soup. did you order the UV?

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But I got the UV, my water is sterile. OH NOOOOOOOOOO!

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NowherMan6,



Well, I can vouche for never having fed my Espei specifically. While initially the diatoms were probably their food source I still get new ones now although no diatons are visible to the eye anymore. I agree that they must eat some tiny things in the soup we call tank water.

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This is where Green Water would come in really handy, maybe NowherMan can ship you some



Just popped in to say, quiet you! ]:|

Bensaf, LF, tetra, enjoy your lush juicy salads. I'll be off enjoying hopefully the last of my pea soup


p.s. tetra, I understand your concern with feeding the fry, but I've seen - in the past and now - and even read that fry of all types are much better at feeding themselves than some would give them credit for. They'll peck at rocks and plant leaves, eating things we have no idea are there. The biggest issue is preventing them from ebing eaten by those pencils...


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I was going to try te crushed flake, might work I'm reading that the live stuff is a must, but who knows. The water has to also be changed daily, high temp, etc. I really just want to remove a dozen or so and see what happens. Right now the fry are hovering over the borrow.

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Does the LFS have any of these frozen?

This is where Green Water would come in really handy, maybe NowherMan can ship you some .

You could try finely crushed flakes. Do you know about the trick of putting the flakes in a ziplock bag and grinding them between your fingers? It might just work, if nothing else is available.

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I was considering that thanks. The bigger issue for me is what to feed them. They need baby brine ship or microworms.


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Just in case you didn't know, or forgot:

A Turkey Baster is a good fry sucker (don't tell the wife that you used it though ).

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I could clearly see the baby rams wiggling around. Looks like they are only a day or two away from being free swimming buffet. I think I'm going to set up my 5g and try to hose them right into it. Tough to get a good pic, cause I'm taking this from above the tank looking down. They are in a borrow below the normal substrate level.



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Last edited by tetratech at 29-Dec-2005 09:07
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you want to pull them up and eat 'em in a salad
That's funny, because many times I have looked at my Wisteria and said it looks good enough to eat.

Ah,music to my ears now let's all say it together -
Glad you enjoyed the concert.

What brand are the filter intake and output again
The output is the eheim, but it's a basic spraybar positioned horizontial and attached to the left side glass, so you really don't see it.

The intake is a marineland magnum that was too big to fit into the 1/2 eheim ecco tubing so I had to retrofit with some lawn sprinkler connectors at home depot. The strainer I'm using is also marineland, but I'm using my old one from my 12gallon eclipse setup (It was bigger than the one that came with the magnum tubing and I was able to fit my airstone inside it for the co2) which as you know is open-top so I couldn't use the eclipse all in one setup anymore.



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All Together:

I have to tell ya I think Bensaf was right about low no3.


Ok, I said it too . Nevertheless I am still experimenting with how much is good excess vs. too much excess. And I want to point out yet again that EI does not say 20ppm is the level to strive for. It is, by normal fertilization and minimum to no uptake, the maximum that should accumulate if one performs a weekly 50% water change. I will create an entry in my log stating my current &#8220;adjustment&#8221; attempt.

Tetratech &#8211; your latest full shot looks very nice. What brand are the filter intake and output again? Is the size of them an easy fitting for the filter?

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I have to tell ya I think Bensaf was right about low no3


Ah,music to my ears now let's all say it together -
I have to tell ya I think Bensaf was right about low no3
.
Now, didn't that feel good ?

Seriously though, I've never seen the point of trying to run lean on No3 (or anything else for that matter). Running out even for a short period can cause issues that can be more tricky to recover from then simply adding more Nitrate. The more wimpy plants will stunt and have a hard time recovering.Algae has an immediate advantage and as we all know it takes a lot longer to get rid of then it took to show up.

Good nitrate levels on the other hand do produce full healthy plants. Nitrogen is one of the moveable nutrients. Meaning if it's low the plant will move from older parts to the newer growth. This leads to leaf loss and raggedy bottoms and not so healthy tops. Losing bottom leaves quickly can be a good indicator for your NO3 levels. The plant is expending energy moving N around, energy that could be used in growing.

Obviously if the plant has sufficient N it doesn't need to move it around and you have healthier fuller plants with all it's leaves intact.I've got Ammania Gracillis, which likes a lot of light, way over 18" tall that doesn't lose a single leaf even the ones way down the bottom in the densest part of the bunch.

You can immediately tell a plant that is in prime condition. As tetra mentioned there's a visible differnce in appearance that's hard to quantify. I like to call it "juiciness", that just lusher fuller, like they're full of goodness, you want to pull them up and eat 'em in a salad.

This is what you want to aim for. The plants need time to look this way. In other words stability, having that full lush look is the result of good levels on a consistent and stable basis. Guarantee as your plants fill out and get closer to the light this will only improve.

This is what you need to look for. Forget algae. Pearling can be mis-leading. Watch the plants. Full "juicy" plants that aren't shedding unreasonable amounts of leaves and you will have no problems.




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Here's a full tank pic taken tonite. As you could see everythings growing even the rotala and stargrass have made a return. I have to tell ya I think Bensaf was right about low no3, Since I doubled my doses the fullness has returned to the stargrass and the wisteria is so soft and billowy you would not believe it. If I cut it I literally have a new fully developed leaf in 2 days. But remember none of this growth is possible without the co2 being up.


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The two yamato shrimp live in the tall piece of dw in the middle. It's a rarity that they venture off it. Here's a pic with one of the shrimps on top. The little white lines on the pic are little bubbles coming off the spraybar.



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Shot of some of the hairgrass I decided to keep as a small patch of grass. I kinda threw an extra piece of blyxa in the middle of it. Probably will move it.



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Some more pics. Closeup of the main grouping:



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Wing,
Thanks for the comments. Right now I could see the wigglers as they move around in the "nest". The bolivians are really great fish, especially from a personally standpoint. The pencilfish look like little sharks waiting to pounce so I don't know how many of the fry I'll be able to pull out.

LF,
The blyxa sends out short sideshoots that you could use for new plants. They supposely will grow short and full if all their conditions are met(light, ferts, etc.) It likes po4 in the 1-2ppm range and will have reddish hues and grow white flowers. So if this is true could be a good indicator plant for my fert levels)

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but the don't look as similiar in the tank


Yeah yeah yeah



The goose neck looks actually good as well.

How does Blixa propagate? By runners? It would look nice if there would be a whole group of them in front of the rock formation, don't you think?

I am glad you only have algae issues on the rock and wood, I wonder why that is. What does a rock have that a plant leaf (that is already grown out) doesn't? Very intriguing!

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tetratech,

Very cool pictures! Kids are really cool.

There is something special to making wisteria stay down? Most of mine is doing it. I actualy want some of it to grow higher! I guess I will have to steal some of Bob's wisteria thats like a tree!

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Are we done yet

Nice collection and naming of each set

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Actually I missed a dose while I was out of town.

See my other thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/67955.html?200601111643

Last edited by tetratech at 11-Jan-2006 16:58

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Yup tetratech,

That is what it did for me, and proportionally on a smaller dosage than yours.

Maybe it doesn't work equally on all tanks or on your particular type of algae.

I would say keep it up for at least 3 more days.

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Thanks Lf,

Question? I'm on day 5 of the excel treatment I've been doing about 20ml everyday, I haven't seen the bba turn red, but looks like it has stopped spreading. I think you said your's turned red around day 4.

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tetratech,

Yeah, I see the depth, from the side of the tank

I never doubted it is there, but sometimes it is hard to see it from the front of the tank (aka standard photo position). I am sure that it will look deeper once the area in front of the main group has filled in some more.

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Oh it's got depth baby!

For those of you who mentioned my tank lacks depth (you know who you are) I wanted to show this side shot. The grouping of blyxa is on three different levels with rocks pushing up the substrate aroundthe big rock. You could also see the big rocks are staggered as well at different depths. It's hard to see this from the front.





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It's just wild to look back on it and see it so lacking in wisteria because wisteria has become such a ounced and dare I say, defining element in your tank.


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Edit error on previous post. Anyway your referring to the day on pic right Nowher, yeah, the wisteria was left over clippings from my old 46 gallon and there wasn't much of it when I first started.



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Speaking of wisteria groups, holy cow! Look at the right side of that first pic - empty!

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Speaking of wisteria groups, holy cow! Look at the right side of that first pic - empty!


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It certainly does flow better, although I still find the left side Wisteria group to be isolated.

Also, from the pciture, one cannot easily see the driftwood stick on the left. I am sure that when looking at the tank directly it creates a flow towards that left side.

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Nowher, GW never visible from front, sometimes bad photo skills come in handy.



Not bad photo skills, I just dont think you had GW nearly as bad as mine, probably why it took your UV less time to make things sparkling clear for you. Anyway, I like the new look of the tank, even though Hendrix Rock is no more.


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The poor Blyxa has been uprooted and moved like 4 times already.


Well don't move it again

It's a relatively delicate plant, it does not take kindly to being moved. It takes quite a while for it to root and establish, every time you move it , it has to start over.

I'd go as far as to say the secret to growing it well is stick it in and never move it.


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Thanks Wingdsc.


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tetratech,

Things are looking really nice. I can't wait until I can do some more work on my tank!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Yeah I think I got it all out, actually I think I skipped a few pics. Nowher, GW never visible from front, sometimes bad photo skills come in handy.

If you look at the foreground I spread the blyxa further and scattered some wisteria into the middle to help blend. I guess I'll let it grow in and see how it looks. The poor Blyxa has been uprooted and moved like 4 times already.

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Today - reworked blended foreground to appease my critics



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3 Days ago - Nowher, not now, I'm on a roll!



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Day 97 - Happy New Year!

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Hmm... an obvious lack of GW pictures here, tetra... youre not telling the whole story here!


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Day 77 - The comeback

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Day 65 - Innocence Lost



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Day 38 - I had at all (in my naive mind anyway)



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Day 12 - Innocent growth

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Day 1 - The excitment

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[link=http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm]http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm" style="COLOR: #001700[/link]

Heard good things about him. probably worth a shot. When ig et around to restocking the 20G again i'm ordering from him what i can't find locally. (going to try getting some from deb first)

but to answer the earlier question none lived long enough to reproduce. shrimp aren't that delicate of shippers AZ gardens just has shotty quality. well I do have some rudolphs still, they are about all i ahve left from the purchase.

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I was going to order my shrimp from there, I guess I will have to find another source then.


Hehe, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe shrimp are just poor shippers? Never had them shipped before, but it seems the death rate shouldn't be as high as megil says it was. Will have to do some more searching for online retailers, I think I saw some place online called Frank's something-or-other, little pricy though... and there's always aquabid.


Chaos,

All true enough, but taking a pic of a tank with a black background/ substrate and high lighting is like taking a pic of a guy in a big black coat out in a snow covered field on a bright sunny day - if you expose to capture either extreme perfectly, the other is going to look crummy. if you want straight from the camera .jpegs, in the case of planted tanks I think it's best to underexpose only slightly - the point is not to see the background at its best, but to capture the detail in the plants. For straight out of the camrea .jpegs I think the exposure is pretty good. Ideally I think one would underexpose a little - no more than a full stop - and then play with shadows/ highlights in Photoshop... or if shooting .raw files it would be that much more effective.

Sorry, that was off topic. I'll control the photo-nerdness from now on


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Here's another shrimp shot. It's interesting to watch them. When a fish swims close the shrimp put up their arms in an effort to defend themselves.



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LF,
If I spend $70 for shrimp shipping my tank really would be over my head like in my avatar.

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Gee,

am I glad that I am reading this thread.

I was going to order my shrimp from there, I guess I will have to find another source then.

Thanks Megil also from me, I am sure you saved me quite some money (and hair).

Ingo


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Chaos,
Thanks for any advice, I am certainly not that photo savvy.
My camera is a Canon S2 IS, not an SLR, but from what I understand a pretty good camera, some shots I believe are limited because of the iso setting only going up to 400 and insufficient light. Most of the shots you see in my thread are taking with the manual seeings using shutterspeed as a priority.

The settings are using 1/10 - 1/20, f 2.7 to 4.5, with 2/3 underexposure. I do have a black background and black substrate so I do like the way it makes the plants pop out.

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Hey, i was wondering what kind of a camera you are taking the photos with. Because you were asking about photo exposres before I thought I might add a little more info. I believe that your camera is automatically over exposing your photos. [I see the etherial quality of many of your plants as evidence of this, though perhapse you like to use this as an awe inspiring effect? ] It depends on the kind of camera but you may be able to ajust its settings. What it does whne you take pictures, all of which seem to be without a flash which is great imo, is that it tries to make the net exposure for the immage what is called middle grey, as far as light inensity goes. The camera does not understand that your background is supposed to be black or that snow for example is supposed to be white. Because of this it over exposes the aquarium pictures with large ammounts of black in them. The 'false pearling' picture has good detail overall, because of the normal balance of light and dark. THe one below it shows heavenly wisteria. Anyway depending on the camera you might be able to force better exposures, but it depends.

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Megil,
Sorry to hear that. What kind of shrimp did you order and how many? Did any survive to reproduce?

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http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/71/sort/2/cat/4/page/1

I believe everything is covered there. The shrimp shipped were miniscule , and as stated hot very good survival rate.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 09-Jan-2006 13:47

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Just avoid az gardens for shrimp.


Any experience you'd like to share?


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get other shrimp apart from yamato's. there are other algae eating shrimp that will eat a different variaty of algae than yamatos and also reproduce in fw.

Just avoid az gardens for shrimp.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 09-Jan-2006 13:36

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Thanks for the pic comments LF.


I guess all you need is about 100 more shrimp
Yeah exactly, that' what Amano always says, so simple, $500 later. I don't think the 5 I have will put a dent in it. BTW I got all my yamato shrimp at aquarium adventure. They were $3.99 each minus 25% for being a AA member which was free since I signed up when the store opened. Wow $5 is high, I thought $3.99 was high, I wonder what Bensaf pays. The cherry shrimps were $5.99 but were not in stock.



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That is a beautiful shot tetratech

I guess all you need is about 100 more shrimp (). At my LFS they go for $5 each.

Ingo

I really like this picture


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I've definitely observed my otos munching on the bba. I don't have alot of algae on the menu, so maybe they are desperate. I've also caught the yamato shrimp pictured here making a snack of it.




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I think one phrase you made probably highlights the differnce in our attitudes. You want a tank with a striking background for a school of colorful fish. I lean the other way. Cardinals, Neons et al, while beautiful fish don't do it for me. They just seem to sit there. I prefer the fish to be more interactive with the environment.
That's a very good distinction. I'm always hesitant to add more fish because I feel it would eventually clutter the big school I plan on having one day. Although in a tank of my size I do want and have some fish that use the layout like pencils, rams, otos. I also currently have 5 yamato shrimp. As I said I need more tanks, I'm always torn between a tank with maybe two or three plant species and a large school or one with more variety buy not Dutch like. I really need 3 medium size tanks, this way you'll always have one show tank and the others you could play with.



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Well maybe I should clarify a little. Certainly I wouldn't suggest you go mad and add a lot more species. Something I've certainly been guilty of in the past is too many species with none making a impact. I'm trying to control that urge these days.

Certainly I think you've handled the stem plants very well and certainly wouldn't add more species. Let what's there fill out. You may even decide to drop one of the species later and it would still be impressive.

I''m thinking more of the smaller details. The mid/foreground areas. Accents for rocks etc. You really wouldn't need too many more species 2 or 3 would do it.

Certainly I wouldn't suggest you go down the road that my collectoritis forced me. These days I'm removing more species then I'm adding.

I think one phrase you made probably highlights the differnce in our attitudes. You want a tank with a striking background for a school of colorful fish. I lean the other way. Cardinals, Neons et al, while beautiful fish don't do it for me. They just seem to sit there. I prefer the fish to be more interactive with the environment. Gouramies gracefull winding thru plants, Bettas prowling through a mass of Anubias leaves, Pencil fish pecking and poking thru everything, and Ottos being Ottos. I got into the habit of building 'scapes to encourage that kind of behaviour. This works against me sometimes. Things I should keep simpler I end up overdoing.

You can see this trait even now. Remember when I re-did the tank? While the overall layout is the same it was much simpler and cleaner at the start, you can see in the last pics everything has got denser, more complex and darker (even though I now have more light over the tank). Guess I just can't help myself.



Last edited by bensaf at 09-Jan-2006 00:41


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Bensaf,
I could definitely appreciate your comments. I think I'm always torn between keeping my tank simple (less species) and letting this simple but dramatic layout show off a large school of fish (which I don't have yet) or adding more flora and giving it more complexitity. As you of course know some of the most striking tanks are one's that have only a few species of plants, not to say that certain elements aren't located strategically to add interest.

At this point I would like to see how things grow in a bit. Although I'm very happy with the Blyxa it has reduced the flow (as LF pointed out) and I need to make the necessary adjustments for it to work completely.

Any comments are always appreciated.



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Ingo,

The Bylxa won't get very tall. It'll get wider by producing side shoots. It's a very easy plant to control unlike the chain sword which can get out of hand.

Blyxa Aubertii is another one that would work well in your tank. Unlike the Japonica it's more of a true rossette type plant. Get's a lot taller and very wide.Similar texture and shape leaves to the Japonica, but a lot longer and softer.In your light it would turn red on the top portion quite easily so may give a splash of color while still retaining that grassy look.

I find it grows a lot faster then the Japonica.

Tetra,
If I may be a little critical.....

I do like your tank a lot. It's well laid out and the plants look full of health. But it also leaves me a little cold. It seems a tad sterile. There's no small details. I don't feel any mystery and because of that I don't feel any desire to investigate and look further. It's like "wow what a pretty tank"....and they I move on.

The Blyxa I think accentuates this problem. A pretty plant well laid out, put in the right place and then...nothing. There's a few rocks there but they're just sitting there doing nothing, they don't distract but they don't add anything either.

This may partly be due to my own bias. You know while we both appreciate any well done tank we also have quite different personal tastes. I certainly go for a more crowded look.

The most important and painstaking parts of my own tanks are the minor details, the ones that unfortunately don't come across in photographs. The greatest personal satisfaction is when I see somebody looking at my tanks and they crouch down, try to look thru the sides or they are almost breaking their necks trying to get a closer look at some detail because they think there might be something else there, even if most of the time there isn't.

Generally the placement of stem plants comes rather easy to me , more thought goes into the choice of species. But I have spent hours trying to get small details of where wood, rock and plants meet, so as the whole becomes greater then the sum of the parts.

All the good tanks have this I think. There's always sections of the tanks you can't see, at least not at first. There may not actually be anything there but you want to look to find out for yourself.

The thing with your tank, at least at the moment, it may change as plants fill out, is that I can already see everything.

Slight edit. You posted a new photo while I was typing this. The full tank shot showing part of the room. I have to say that it looks more impressive in that shot. Still think some detail around the Blyxa would be a big bonus.

Last edited by bensaf at 08-Jan-2006 21:06


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The Blyxa is a very nice plant. Seems like it works best when used at the base of structure, similar to tenellus... the question is how big it grows etc. Another planted tank fad... UVs, glass diffusers, Blyxa... what next?


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LF,
As far as the excel treatment. I haven't really dosed the regular amount. I assume you mean the 5ml for every 50g.
How many doses did you do to see any change? I dosed 35ml yesterday and was going to do this for a week every other day. No, that wasn't bba turning red, just some red color on the petrified wood. By the way when the bba turns red and dies do you jus leave it in the tank or do you remove it some how.

In terms of anubias, I didn't know you buried those in the substrate. I guess if the rhizome is hidden from view it would look alright. Thanks for the info.

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Starting to sound like LF


And what would be wrong with that

Slight shift of topic,

As promised, here are 2 pictures of an Anubias Nana planted in the gravel.

Full Shot:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:



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Was the Excel already added when you took that pic ? I usually find that grey bba is very unhealthy bba on it's way out.
No, the bba I have has been grey from the getgo. Definitely accmulating more in the path of the spray bar. As I mentioned other apc members have experienced same.

Co2 I know is high ph 6.2 to 6.4 and kh 3. I could start guessing buy I'm I think I'm done playing perfect scientist. Other than some nice healthy spot algae there is no other algae in the tank, leaves are very clean, full.

Bensaf, I would love to send you some of my stargrass, it is growing madly. (Starting to sound like LF). I'm glad I regrouped my rotala and stargrass from little pieces, much more satisfying than buying more. Especially the stargrass I had replanted 1 to 2 inch pieces, by tomorrow morning it will be the tallest plant in my tank.

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Jan-2006 20:49

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Ottos usually won't touch BBA. They prefer diatoms and the soft stuff. But then again a lot of fish will peck at any algae if it's young and fresh.

I agree that algae on rocks and wood look better with a coating of algae. As long as it's the right type, one of the more "attractive" algaes. The soft green ones are ok. Unfortunately ones like BBA and staghorn are just plain ugly.

Was the Excel already added when you took that pic ? I usually find that grey bba is very unhealthy bba on it's way out.


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I have a 9 otos in the tank and at times I have seen them clean a path of bba on the dw, but I they can't keep up with it. I also do think the bba is their preferable type of algae and there is some spot algae (normal) on the glass for them. I have 5 shrimp and I can't say I've seen them bother with the BBA. They stay on that piece of dw all day and nibble on that attached piece of java moss.

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Are the shrimp eating it at all? Is there anything that finds it tasty? Would otos be of any service? I have many questions, no answers. I don't remember if you tried otos in that tank at all. Mine do ok but I'm still scraping all kinds of algae off the glass. My vacation and the direct sunlight coming in for an hour a day led to all kinds of algae growing everywhere that it wasn't growing before. No GW water though knock on wood.

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Here's a pick of some of the bba on the recently named "Krusty Peak"

A greenish-grey in color. It actually doesn't look bad, if it could be contained, but it's definitely spreading too much.

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O.K. Thanks LF.

I guess my fear with over dosing the excel too much is the E. Stella which looks like it has "I'm melting" written all over it and the tolerance of the Yamato Shrimp which now total 5 in my tank.




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tetratech,

Before I treated the tank for the first time I had serious black rims on the Anubias and various other plants and hardscape. Never came back, except some small bushles (I actually assume of a different algae type) on my rock. This one has been eliminated during the last (second) sweep with Excel. I never physically removed any remains. As far as I can tell it turned red, then gray, and then disintigrated.

Ingo



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LF,
Thanks. Did the bba in your tank every come back and when it turned red did you end up cleaning it off hardscape and cutting leaves or did it pretty much just distegrate into the water column?

Thanks LF and Nowher for the anubias info.

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Anubias roots, when planted under the gravel, will grow thick, white and quite long, not unlike large crypt or sword roots. When we normally see them, the roots are green and on the thin side; not so when buried. During my replant I noticed one set of A. barteri roots that were roughly a foot long. Just be extremely careful when burying the roots as to not bury the rhizome (said often enough, I'm sure, but nevertheless...) It will rot and the plant will die at the slightest bit of being underground, and with the other ground cover you have you probably won't even know it.


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tetratech,

I guess I didn&#8217;t dose the normal dosage either, but I had a different regiment.

I started off with the first dosage (means there is no Excel prior in the tank) at the suggested amount, being 5ml for every 10G (suggested after 40+ % of water change), in my case I added 50ml, for you it would be the 35ml that you added.

Then I subsequently dosed every day 20ml, so maybe 15ml for your tank size, for one week. Changes occurred around day 4.

I think dosing every other day may not be as effective, on one day you attack the algae and the next day you give it a break &#8211; supposedly Excel stays active for only 24h (no evidence to back this up though).

About the Anubias: I will take a picture on the weekend and show you how it looks in my 29G where the roots are clearly visible from the front of the tank. I kind of like the look of the roots as it reminds me of a Mangrove tree.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I think you've used the Blyxa perfectly, it looks it's best against rock where they show each other off. Also you've planted it in an ideal triangular configuration (been studying your Amano principles ? )

But I do think it still looks a bit bare there though. I'd like some bunches of a small Anubias there, at the bottom of the rocks just behind/alongside the Blyxa. The braod leaves of the Anubias, with the thin Blyxa and the rocks would all set one qnother off really really well. It'll also give a more "aged" appearance.

I know you tried Anubias before and didn't like it. But the variety you had was a bit too big and not enough of it. I'm thinking a few thick bunches of small Nana or Petite. Grouping or tying a few rhizomes together gives that nice bushy look.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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LITTLE_FISH
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I love the Ram shot, great picture that shows its beautiful color

The only Dan I know is a member of this site, why? Did I mention a Dan somewhere here? Dan at FP has his own log with 4 65G tanks on a rack.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
ChaosMaximus
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Hey, something where I have some expertice, photography

I agree the bottom picture is better and I think I can explain why it is better. Im going to assume that your lighting is about daylight (65-6700k). Tungesten is significanly lower, is very orange in general. Your brain tends to do its own white balancing so you dont notice it. Tungsten is orange, the more steril looking florescents in offices are genreally green. The camera is doing what nowhereman said because the tungsten assumes the lighting is X ammount to orange and it ajusts all the colors accoringly. Thus you loose the nice red on the tips of those plants and the gravel, which I think is black in sunlight looks blue in the top picture.

In general when you are wondering about the color balance of a photo and have several to compare, the one that has the best color contrast, it kind of 'pops' more is the correct one. The wisteria for example has much better detail overall in the correct photo. If you had a photo with a color balance set for 1000k you would loose detail again as everything became too orange.

I dont know how much of what I am seeing is easily observed because it took me a few months of doing my own color photo printing to really start to see this stuff.

Hope it was reasonably clear,

Chaos

Actually, just to mention it, the bottom photo is probably a little to orange. The gravel isnt black in that photo either. So the perfect photo may be a little inbetween but much closer to the bottom one.

Last edited by chaosmaximus at 05-Jan-2006 12:21

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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ChaosMaximus,

Thanks, yes that did make alot of sense.
Your definitely in the right place. Your photographic knowledge with planted tank interest are definitiely a tough combination to beat in terms of challenge and beauty.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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The camera is doing what nowhereman said because the tungsten assumes the lighting is X ammount to orange and it ajusts all the colors accoringly


Right. Take a shot of a person under incandescent lighting and their face is orange, with tungsten film () or a digital setting it's much cooler.


Of course, if people shot RAW you could do whatever you want with it no matter the camera setting.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
ChaosMaximus
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nowhereman

Is RAW an acronym of some kind? or do you mean somthing else? just wondering

Chaos

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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You don't need to anchor them to anything as such. Tie or rubber band small rocks or stones to them,to weigh the plant down and plop them in. You can hide these stones easy enough or push the stone down into the substrate just make sure the rhizome is not covered. You can pile up Anubias pretty easy.

Current doesn't seem to make a difference to BBA. It will always settle on hard scape/equipment first. Equipment should be cleaned/bleached regularly. It can be hard to keep of hard objects even with good Co2. But it's always worthwhile to check Co2, test for KH and pH. It's easy to get got out. KH can shift from rocks etc. Needle valves can move and reduce the bubble count without you noticing etc.There's a few ways it can move, you need to keep an eye on it or you may find you're running lower Co2 levels then you thought. Always a good idea to check KH and pH regularly to make sure your where you want to be.

The Excel's a good idea, harrying and hassling BBA helps.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

You say that you overdose Excel, why? Have you tried the regular dosage for at least one week first? It worked very well on my tank. Back to your question picture - maybe it was an illusion on my end, but I thought I see some red algae on the rock to the left. Once it turns red it is dying and all you have to do is to keep up the regular dosage for a little longer.

About the Anubias: Bensaf is right ( what else is new? ), they don't need to be tied to something. Actually, all of mine were shipped to me with small regular roots already expaning from the rhizome (sp?). I buried all of mine in the substrate making sure the rhizome is above the ground. These roots become rather big after a short while and the plant will be savely anchored.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi Guys,
I did some initial research on the UV vs Fe effects.
This is a series from "The Krib" about it:
[link=http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/comments.html#m15]http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/comments.html#m15" style="COLOR: #FF00FF[/link]

There are others too, but the chemistry gets kinda deep.
The short is that it looks like there are no worries.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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This is a fun shot. Looks more like outspace than a fishtank in my kitchen. See the shooting stars.




tetratech attached this image:


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the comments bensaf. I agree it looks alittle empty in the mid are where the Blyxa is especially with the fullness of the wisteria. Not sure about the Anubias because I don't have anyting to anchor to over their. Are you saying to just anchor them to each other.

Another option might be to ad more rocks and try some riccia to add green to that area.

My new challenge now is BBA. It is starting to overwhelm the rocks and wood, I also noticed some of it on the Blyxa.
What's interesting is that it seems to be growing more where there is water movement from the spraybar which is positioned on the left wall of the tank pointed at a 45 degree angle. You could see the Blyxa swaying from it. It pretty much hits that mean rock and driftwood. I also noticed it accumulating on my intake right where the co2 is going in. Many aquarist on APC complained about the same thing. I have not touched my co2 and I know it's in the 30s unles my kh and ph tests are wrong. I've begun to overdose excel.

My Scapes
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