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I don't know what you're all talking about (lol) but beautiful is not a good enough word for that tank in my opinion!

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BTW - I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the lotus leaf all the way up in the middle. The actual plant is right inside the those rocks (1st and 2nd ones) on the left side and get's almost no light.

Thats why it is so dark in the middle of the tank! You should probably trim that thing!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the lotus leaf all the way up in the middle

I thought it is a floater that you forgot to take out
Only now do I see that there is a thin line connecting it with the rock group.

Cleaning the diffuser - you know I am in the camp of never cleaning it with bleach. Instead I put Excel on top of it once it is exposed during a water change. Well, that's what I did for I don't know how many months in a row now, but last week I had to bleach it as the resistence on restart was so strong that it blew off the hose. So - my new rule is, maybe bleach once in about 3 months.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Fish patty, thanks for the nice comment and to all the regulars as well.

Here's an update full room shot of the tank lastnite. I did make some changes. The big rock on the right now is bare and doesn't have riccia covering it, although there are some patches (experiment). I also reduced more wisteria on the sides and you could see more rock work. I might actually decided to gradually ween the tank off the wisteria and use a smaller leafed plant, not sure yet. I Also cut the cord to the Lotus leaf that was at the surface, it was kinda annoying. You could also see more aromatica on both sides wrapping around the front of the rotala.

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My Scapes

I like how the rotala was trimmed in this shot. More of a gradual slope up rather than WHAM here they are.

I also wanted to ask about what looks like a crypt poking out of the rock...does it grow? It always has 2 leaves.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I find it interesting that when you show us the tank without surroundings it looks much larger than when seeing the surroundings.

Or am I the only one who thinks so?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm with fishpatty - it's very beautiful.

as can be seen when looking at their drop checker (another gadget I don't need).

So what is a drop checker anyway? I take it it's not the probe tetratch mentions?

For me I simply can't tell the color differences on the chart.

I agree it - it is total guess work for me using any of these colour charts.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

A Drop Checker can be seen here. It works by adding a solution in the bubble and see its color change depending on the CO2 content of the water (it is submersed completely in the tank).

Look at the extended information tab in the screen to see the colors associated with CO2 levels.

From what I hear, "too much" really means very high values of CO2, but I am not certain how much that would be.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow, for $40 and shipping I'd rather put my money towards a digital readout. Probably cost 50 cents to make

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks for the comments everyone. Matty I know its hard to see but the crypt actually has about 5 leaves at the moment and I end up cutting off some that grow into the stems. I actually have a few baby crypts on the left that were spawned from the main one on the right.

Yeah, your right LF, the tank does look smaller in the room shots, but I would think that would be normal, no? You can tell how big it is by the fish.

I agree about the drop checker, I really don't want to spend $40 to put more equipment in the tank. I bought this ph meter and with the calibration fluid it was only $26.

http://www.aquariumplants.com/pH_METER_Hand_Held_Milwaukee_pH600_p/pr1408.htm

Seems to work fine, I initially measured my ph at lights out and it was 6.0, in the morning it was 6.5 and at about 1pm it was 6.5, makes sense.

My Scapes

... in the morning it was 6.5 and at about 1pm it was 6.5, makes sense.

Not to me, somehow.

That would mean that your CO2 in the morning has no effect at all, or not?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That would mean that your CO2 in the morning has no effect at all, or not

Well here's the logic:
My co2 is at it's highest by lights out, thus the 6.0 ph.
In the morning co2 diminishes of course and I awake to a ph of 6.5. Lights come on around 10:30 as does the co2, so by 1:00 the co2 hasn't built up enough to move the ph off the 6.5 but between 1pm and 7 there is enough of a buildup to move the ph. That or this probe sucks

My Scapes

Did you get calibration solutions with the tester? It might need recalibration.

Also, make sure you don't do what I did & accidently stick the good end in the water. Mine never worked again after that.

I have a pH controller (I know, I know another unneeded toy - which I love BTW), so my pH is always constant at around 6.6. If my bottle runs out my pH will rise to 7.5 & above. If I reconnected a fresh bottle at 10.30am & looked at the pH reading at 1pm, I am positive there would be movement.

Cheers
TW

Did you get calibration solutions with the tester? It might need recalibration.

Could be, Robyn how often do you recalibrate yours? Yes I did calibrate when I first got it with the solution.

My Scapes

Well, if you are talking about my little pen one like yours - it is kaput, due to me sticking wrong end in the water - but I think principle of regular recalibration would be the same.

With my fancy smanshy C02 pH controller/solenoid combined, I do it monthly. Being electronic, it's simple. I punch in approx room temp, put the probe in pH 4 solution & it buzzes when it's happy with that, then I put the probe in pH 7 solution & it buzzes again when it's happy - then I'm done. Easy-peezy.

I think with my little stick pen thing, it involved dipping it in the solutions & adjusting with a little tool until the readings agreed. Did you get instructions? I might still have mine & will check tonight, but think from memory you are to recalibrate if:-

- the unit was not used for an extended period of time
- otherwise monthly

My cleaning system is that the first water change to occur after the 1st day of the month is where the "extra" bits get done, eg

- clean the filter media, hoses, tubes
- recalibrate the pH controller & clean the C02 diffuser
- & now I'll have to add cleaning the pesky UV filter (which I'm a little nervous of how to do without water going everywhere).

Hope this helps. As I say, I am positive that between 10.30am to 1pm, my pH would have moved.

Cheers
TW

Yep, sounds familiar that's pretty much what I did dipped it in the ph4 and ph7 solutions. After you use the solution to dip, do you discard the used solution or can you reuse. It did come with instructions, but didn't mention any of this.

My Scapes

By now I will have Ingo gnashing his teeth & yawning in boredom with talk of these unnessary toys Just skip reading this post LF & also any post I make tonight correcting my info. Sorry Ingo

I will check tonight. Definitely for my fancy one, I discard used solution. I'll see what my original instructions for the pen one say (if anything). My guess would be to discard, unless you are really, really careful to make sure that no tap water, pH4 or pH7 cross transfer in your used solutions. Plus the solutions aren't expensive anyway. (Yay, at least something isn't - you don't want to know what the controller cost me, but the cost is one reason why I am very protective of it - but lucky, it's easy to care for)

So for my fancy smanshy one, I have a dipping container for pH 4, another for pH 7 & yet another container for a neutral solution (distilled water I think) that I dip the electrode in before I move between the 2 solutions. Film cannisers or old tubes from test kits work well here, as they are narrow enough that it means you only need a little solution each time you do this - so waste is minimal.

My C02 now runs 24/7, but it turns on & off according to target pH (6.5). I'm happy my tank has a more stable pH now, as my natural pH is really high & I have some aspistos & nigerian red in there that don't like high pH. Regularly each morning my pH was between 7.8 to even 8.0, before C02 brought it back down daily to 6.5pH. No one gasps at night & funnily, my C02 is lasting longer, as it no longer has to play daily catch up - but merely keeps things steady. I know I am told not to worry about this daily catch up - but I worry did anyway.

All my pH 4 & 7 solutions are from Sera (the brand of my fancy ph controller) and the distilled or neutral solution is from Dupla.

I'll double check all this tonight & give you the corrections.



Cheers
TW

By now I will have Ingo gnashing his teeth & yawning in boredom with talk of these unnessary toys.

No you don't. Besides, this is not my log and tetratech did not grant me a monopoly on thread entries (with regards that they all should have to interest me) .

tetratech - if your observation would be true then this would be the first time that I hear something like this, meaning that the CO2 would have no influence on ph and only after a certain saturation point is reached it would change the ph. Somehow I would imagine that this is a rather linear event, meaning more CO2 = lower ph and visa versa. A tank with a certain KH and a certain ph has automatically a certain CO2 content - adding any more CO2 should therefore alter the ph.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn thanks for all the info on the calibration, etc. I checked my ph this morning a little while ago and it was 6.8, so maybe the previous 6.5 wasn't first thing in the morning as I had thought. Then I put the probe in my 5g nano and it came out 7.5 (same as my tap). That tank doesn't have any co2 to speak of so it made sense.

Ingo yes that does make sense that it would be a linear event, but if co2 is consumed by the plants as they wake up wouldn't there be less of a jump in concentration until the tank is so filled with co2 that it pushes the number up making it a nonlinear event. I'm not a scientist just thinking out loud.

My Scapes

I'm not a scientist just thinking out loud.

Hey, that could be my line as well

Anyway, I don't think that there is such a thing as "sucking up CO2" until a saturation point of it is reached. Main argument:

Any additional CO2 added after such a saturation point would have no effect on the plants (as they are saturated) and as such useless to the tank.

Furthermore, even if it would be true then you should actually see an increase of ph a little (like an hour or so) after the lights come on as not enough CO2 has yet been added to the tank to saturate and the plants use what is available so far (like the 20ppm at the time of lights on).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The procedure for the fancy gadget is more or less as I said earlier.

But the instructions for the pen type one - very vague indeed. Just says to re-calibrate when:

* it has been used for a long time since the last calibration
* if it has been used in particularly taxing conditions * when the utmost accuracy is required.

Doesn't actually say to discard the calibration solution after single use, but I think it is implied between the lines, as it talks about being careful to minimize contamination.

When I water change, I will notice how quickly the C02 changes the pH by degrees.

Cheers
TW

If you have a constant input of the same amount of CO2 throughout the day you will in fact see a decrease in pH at night and an increase in pH throughout the day as plants use CO2 during the day to photosynthesize and give it off at night to respire.

No real conclusion can be made by those of us without the means if you change the amount of CO2 input at any time of the day. It would be guesswork only to try to decide what observations in pH fluctuations are in the morning if you had just recently turned the CO2 on along with the lights. To classify a change decisively, everything else needs to be constant.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Robyn, thanks for the additional info. Matty that makes alot of sense. You mean if running co2 24/7.

Anyway I confirmed (I think) that my co2 is pushing 60 ppm at it's peak I've been increasing ferts all the way around and I believe I'm seeing improvement in my aromatica. They are now playing a more prominent role in the main areas of the tank.



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My Scapes

Yeah, sorry, instead of saying "all day" I should have said 24/7.

I definitely notice a positive change there for them. I'm thinking I need to get a digital pH jobby and I've been thinking that for quite a long time. It just feels useless to test with the color test kit. Even the salifert kits are hard to read, though better than the others.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah, hopefully the aromatica is for real this time. I can't remember the last time it looked good. These guys don't seem to mind the high co2. Well you could see why these guys are on the glass. How embrassing

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My Scapes

Don't worry...
Non of us noticed the algae on the glass

Nice, Healthy, Ottos!

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

We can all see why the Otos are so fat!

Add more Phosphates!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

"Everybody Sing - La La La La La"

In reference to the Wiggles song that each parent of younger children probably knows all too well.

Nice shot of tank and Otos, tetratech,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Everybody Sing - La La La La La

Right you have very young kids. Have you checked out Ditty Doodle Works on PBS? A close friend of mine created the show it's for youngsters between 1 and 6.

My Scapes

Man, the Wiggles. Here I am working a desk job, while they sing goofy songs and dance around - which i do in my free time anyway! - and make megabucks. Makes me think I'm in the wrong business...

Anyway, I think Bensaf would have a thing or two to say about that GS algae tetra - more phosphates!

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Back in the saddle!

Anyway, I think Bensaf would have a thing or two to say about that GS algae tetra - more phosphates!

Yeah, I think I've been underdosing everything especially with the co2 so high. Is that pretty solid that GS is caused by low phosphate or is it similiar to saying BGA is caused by low nitrate?

My Scapes

IMO low phosphates is one possible cause of green spot. I get some green spot and I know my PO4 levels are good. I'm not sure it's worth messing with things too much, just from where I'm sittin' and lookin'.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I don't know this for sure, and I have not been in a serious discussion about it either, but I doubt that low P causes GS.

I always had some GS developing on the glass, and if you don't clean your glass frequently it will multiply (not as in making more out of one, just simply more). And as you all know (or not) my tab P is already 2ppm and I add some to it during the week (2 to 3 times) as well.

I made an overservation in my 125 over the last few weeks. As lazy as I am, I did not clean the back glass of my tank for quite a while. Over time, I saw a buildup of GS in the open glass area behind the Blyxa on the left of the tank (here is another side observation - I usually don't see GS behind plants, just in open areas). The interesting part is that there was a clear horizontal line about half way down on the glass with GS below but barely any above. And guess what? This is how low the water level falls during water change. Makes me think that exposire to air is not so good for GS.

What do you think?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What do you think?

I think that you might not get as much light in those areas. I have been doing some pretty large water changes the past few weeks and I still have some GS abover where my water line goes down to.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Oh Oh tetratech,

Did you run out of your Premium Membership again?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Looks like he did, LF.

Time to pass the collection plate for tetra!

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Back in the saddle!

Yeah I got a couple of reminders and didn't do anything. I'll have to decide if I'm going to renew the premo. There's really only a few dedicated planted enthusiasts here. Let's see Skywalker(nowher), Solo(LF), Darth Vader (Matty-darkside), Wings(C3PO)and Princess leia(tankwatcher). Of course the great Obi-Wan (Bensaf) is somewhere out there, probably in a galaxy far far away............

O.K. Frank you could be Yoda


My Scapes

Nah, I think Frank is the Emperor!

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Back in the saddle!

Princess leia(tankwatcher)

Glad I didn't end up being a female version of Chewy. Must tell the family they have to treat me more as a princess now and less as their personal slave ?

What happens if you re-new now ... will all your older pics come back too? I hate to think we won't get to see your beautiful tanks again. However, it is good to learn that once you cease membership your older pics disappear. I never considered that before - just thought you wouldn't be able to post new ones. Thinking about it, I can understand it's fair enough for FP to do this - I just hadn't thought about it. Thought my log pics would always be there, as my textural & pictorial record of tank's life. Makes me think I should also keep this in a home document as well, as you never know what might happen in the future.

BTW, I've read here and there of your previous brewery incident & know it had something to do with your C02 system - but can't imagine how this happens with a pressurised system. What happened & did you have DIY at the time? Just curious. Is there a thread here you could point me towards, if that's easier than rehashing it here

Cheers
TW

Must tell the family they have to treat me more as a princess now and less as their personal slave

Now you sound like my wife.

The brewery incident was when I had DIY Co2. In fact it prompted my conversion to pressurized. I'm still not sure exactly how it happened, but somehow enough of the mix got into the tank to start reacting and it really smelled like a brewery. There was a big billowy cloudy that was moving about the tank it was pretty freaky. It happened in my old 46g before I started the 72g. If I find any pics I'll post them or should I say link them.

My Scapes

Well,

I guess that would leave Chewbacca and R2D2 for tetratech, make you pick young man

BTW, isn't your birthday sometime in May?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BTW, isn't your birthday sometime in May?

Actually it was May 3rd. 44

I guess that would leave Chewbacca and R2D2 for tetratech

Yeah, I let you guys have all the cool characters. I guess I'll be Chewbacca since he most resembles what I look like anyway. My days of being incognito will soon be coming to an end as I will probably reveal myself sometime in the near future. Please make sure the kids are not near your computer as you gaze upon my most heidous form.

My Scapes

So tetra,

You are setting up your old 46G bow? What are you plans?

Did you ever get that salt set up running?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well the salt setup never happened because I simply didn't have a place to put the setup. All the equipment (sump, substrate, sock, etc are setting in my garage)

You are setting up your old 46G bow? What are you plans?

Yep this one is underway. I'm deciding on what kind of layout I want to do. I already have all my equipment and the tank will be in my bedroom. I couldn't have put the salt setuip in the bedroom because the sump and setup would have been too noisy.




My Scapes

Very good to hear you're setting up a new one, looking forward to seeing it come together.

Guess we wont have our competing tanks afterall, mine isnt close to being ready

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Back in the saddle!

I'm too young to be a father.....but I still like being vader.

Can't wait to see the new setup.....too bad about the SW.

You should def get your premie renewed...it's only a few bucks, and it's a different atmosphere here than on a larger site.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

it's a different atmosphere here than on a larger site.

Very true. Thats why I keep coming back here. Plus we all have a history together!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Me? The Emperor? Isn't he the "Old Dude" in the black
cape/hoodie with all the wrinkles and bad speech, one
of the "Bad Guys?"

Actually, I would think that keeping the
Premium Membership would be an ideal thing unless you
were only casually visiting FP only once in a while.
The site, its software, and staff, have provided a first
rate place for you to exchange ideas, theories, and facts
about a wide range of subjects. In this one forum alone
"We" have covered various fish species, snails, shrimp,
and even frogs. And thats not counting the various
substrates, lights and lighting, filtration and filters
and hundreds of plants.

If one takes the time to actually read all of these
posts (and I have not just because I'm one of
the moderators, but because the topics interest me)
there is an amazing amount of knowledge here and
it continues to grow.

We now have new members with new tanks, that are interested
in plants, lighting, and substrates. I expect we will see
many of them posting questions and logs here.

There are other sites, many for plants, but they seem
"Stuffy" and not as "open" or friendly as FP is.
I would hope that you do renew, and continue to support
the site that has given you so much.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

My days of being incognito will soon be coming to an end as I will probably reveal myself sometime in the near future. Please make sure the kids are not near your computer as you gaze upon my most heidous form.

Oh Oh,

I guess that means that you are into something big. Why else would you all of a sudden after many years decide to show yourself? I am looking forward to it.

And now go and renew your subscription before they see your image and ban you from the site (as in: too hairy, Chewbacca)

Ingo

EDIT: I assume you have seen my mug-shot at the latest event published on NJAGC, right?

EDIT EDIT: And belated "Happy Birthday" to you, welcome to my age (and Bensaf's )

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Thanks for the belated BDay Wish

Oh Oh,

I guess that means that you are into something big. Why else would you all of a sudden after many years decide to show yourself? I am looking forward to it.

Oh, it won't be something that big. You know me, I'm such a drama queen.

Now that a darkside presence has been discovered here within the moderator group, I might have to go into hiding and seek out (Obi-Wan/aka Bensaf) and return to fight the Protists and the Tdapbaraf (Threads disquised as planted but are really about fish).



My Scapes

Of course the great Obi-Wan (Bensaf) is somewhere out there, probably in a galaxy far far away............

Try an airport far far away.......

Don't have a life anymore, at least not one that doesn't involve work

Logged on to look at the pics and see how the tanks were coming a long, but yours are all gone

I'm sure it looks way better then my neglected overgrown moss infested ones anyway

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Try an airport far far away

It's alive!!!

Now I have to just talk you into showing us your moss-dominated tanks, maybe next airport layover. Glad all is well with you. If you check back in go here for the most recent published pick of my tank.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/files/1/8/9/5/IMG_7967crop_original.jpg

Best regards,
Jeff




My Scapes

Great to see a pic of your tank again tetratech.

Those are great rocks you have there. I can never really find any that I think look natural, no matter where I look. Did you buy them, or did you collect them bushwalking?

Cheers
TW

Hi Tetra , Love the design of this tank . Want to see more of your work . Look forward to it
Garry

It's alive!!!

And so are you tetratech,

And I am with Robyn, nice to see your tank again. Doesn't seem like much, if anything at all except trimming, has changed in your tank. All looks healthy and clean

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

The rocks are all Petrified wood purchased at LFS in my area. My twigs are from Pier One Imports (a very exotic store)

LF,

Actually that pic of my tank is from April, I was just directing Uncle Ben to a recent pic, since he hasn't been around. I have added a species or two of plants and fine-tuned things a bit. I'll try to post a pic soon.

Garry,

Thanks for those comments!

My Scapes

Well here I am back in Dubai again, on the way home this time.

Tank looks great, being a lot of changes. Plants look incredibly healthy and vibrant, not a lick of algae

Just as impressive is the photo itself. Finally a shot with some light and you can see everything. Crisp and crystal clear, just the right amount of light. Has somebody been taking photography lessons?

I don't even have a photo of mine since I moved house. There's pretty much no stem plants in it as I don't have time to trim and the crypts and moss have spread and taken over everywhere. Whole thing needs to be tore down and re-arranged. Someday.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Yes My Master, I've served you well!

Well here I am back in Dubai again, on the way home this time.

Bensaf, nice to catch you here. Thanks for those very nice comments. Yep the tank is incredibly stable, regardless of what I do with ferts, etc. I have to preach organic and light control as the biggest factors.

Dubai seems like a surreal place with their progressive architecture, etc. If you play tennis, don't forget your parachute. Glad all is well with you and I hope you settle enough to put another beautiful scape together.



My Scapes

Wow,

two Bensaf entries in 4 days, I can only hope that he has a layover at that airport at least once a week .

So tetratech, tell me more about your preachings with regards to light control, please.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So tetratech, tell me more about your preachings with regards to light control, please.

or call me Jeff, please

Anyway, I'm convinced that by reducing the length of the photo period, not the intensity you will control more algae situations, That in combination with good solid co2.
This is nothing new, but I do feel the plants only use what eight hours or so and then it's feast time for algae.

This has worked in my tanks on several occasions when I noticed BBA starting to grow. I've reduced lighting duration and bumped up co2 slightly and the BBA was controlled and didn't come back. I notice my rocks are staying cleaner. I'm about to setup my new 46g. I'm pretty sure I'm going to try my hand at an Iwagumi and I will be only running lights at about 7 hours initially and moving up to 8/9 max.

My Scapes

Good to see the old man is still around and well (at least health wise)

I wish I knew how to be active in more than one forum at once, then I could stay on top of these things.

Tetra, nice to hear about the 46. In the amano-related set-up manuals I've seen he suggests the same. Start off with a short photo period and little to no ferts and gradually build them up. This will be especially tricky with the Iwagumi style, since the first thing we think of when starting a new tank is to stuff it with plants right away. Nutrient control will be more important than ever with this style, sounds like a fun challenge

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Back in the saddle!

Good to see the old man is still around and well (at least health wise)

Yeah that is good news. Speaking of old men, I was sorry to hear you mention your tank is delayed. Maybe your a little of this old man from Lawn Guy-land

My Scapes

Speaking of old men, I was sorry to hear you mention your tank is delayed. Maybe your a little of this old man from Lawn Guy-land

Who, me?

I still haven't redone the 4G which needs it the most. My target for that is next week. I've just been putting money into non-aquatic plants and haven't budgeted for the new ones to go in the 4G. Just got a few nice small begonia species the other day, and I've been setting up the outside plants now that the weather has turned warm.

Funny thing is, the 65 and all accessories are set up in my room already - stand, tank, filter stuff, driftwood, lights etc. All I need now is AS, plants... and a kick in the behind to get going on it

But I am looking forward to your Iwagumi. Thus far I don't think any one we know from FP has pulled one off yet (haven't seen one from Bensaf if he has). ChaosMaximus tried one a year or so ago but that went down the tubes rather quickly I remember. So should be interesting.

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Back in the saddle!

But I am looking forward to your Iwagumi. Thus far I don't think any one we know from FP has pulled one off yet (haven't seen one from Bensaf if he has). ChaosMaximus tried one a year or so ago but that went down the tubes rather quickly I remember. So should be interesting.

Yes, how can we forget ChaosMaximus. Poor guy, never knew what hit him.

Anyway, how can I fail, I'm in a Zen-like state of mind

My Scapes

Anyway, I'm convinced that by reducing the length of the photo period, not the intensity you will control more algae situations, That in combination with good solid co2.
This is nothing new, but I do feel the plants only use what eight hours or so and then it's feast time for algae.

I am with you on this one. I am running about 9 hours max for my photo period with the intensity up to 5.25WPG. I keep my CO2 up around 70 some ppm and I have a light fish load and keep my feedings light. Hardly any algae to speak of in the tank.

Just remember that algae needs long photo periods to prosper while plants can turn it on and off to get by.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yes, how can we forget ChaosMaximus. Poor guy, never knew what hit him.

I know. Started right off the bat with a few clumps of HC, a few petite nanas, and lemon tetras. Algae city within a week. I guess he never stuck with it. Well, live and learn.

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Back in the saddle!

Start off with a short photo period and little to no ferts and gradually build them up.

Well, of course I have to disagree

True, Amano says that, but in what context? Answer: in the context of using his substrate and bacter. This stuff leaches ferts like mad in the beginning, that is why one should not add more ferts.

At least that is my opinion,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

ummm what is Iwagumi style

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Just type Iwagumi into google and you will see. basically, it is a low planted tank (as in mainly low plants like HC and such) with rocks sticking out, similar to my 20G QT currently (although I would get spanked by Amano for remotely linking my tank and Iwagumi, ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

True, Amano says that, but in what context? Answer: in the context of using his substrate and bacter. This stuff leaches ferts like mad in the beginning, that is why one should not add more ferts.

I didn't think AS leached ferts into the WC. It shouldn't anyway, unless you're dumping water directly onto it and making it leach everything.

And tetra, I believe your mailbox is full.

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Back in the saddle!

And tetra, I believe your mailbox is full.

Thanks, I just cleared it.



My Scapes

Tetratech Revealed

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/announcements/40902-june-2007-tank-month-jeff-pogrob.html





My Scapes

AAAAHHHHHHH



Now that is an accomplishment, Jeff.
'Petrified Valley' - interesting name choice, I sure was not petrified when I saw the honors, I was delighted.

And this is not at all how I pictured you would look like, .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well done, Jeff!

Congrats as well! That's no small accomplishment.

I agree with Ingo. With all the "old man" talk I expected to see an old guy sitting there with his tank. Though I guess the Chewbacca comparison holds up...

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks both of you!

Believe me, I'm old. with a Son almost as big as I am, I'm feeling pretty old. I have good hair genes, but that's about it. I actually don't usually look like Chewy, but I get lazy when I work from home. I was tempted to take the pic in my pjs, but I opted for the ripped jeans.

Ingo thanks for those nice words in the thread, that is oh so true, but I think your editorial piece in TFH next to Amano beats it.

My Scapes

Actually, now that I think about it, you look exactly like the guy who played Harry Ellis in the original "Die Hard". I mean, you're a dead ringer for that guy! Know who I'm talking about?

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Back in the saddle!

Actually, now that I think about it, you look exactly like the guy who played Harry Ellis in the original "Die Hard". I mean, you're a dead ringer for that guy! Know who I'm talking about?

You mean that really obnxious coked out guy that they couldn't stand listening to anymore and shot in the head. Great thanks "Checky young pup - Bensaf"

My Scapes

Yeah, that's the guy! Just like him, only that instead of being coked up and obnoxious, if he entered a Zen-like state of mind after discovering the ability to bring the beauty of nature into his home through the art of the aquascape.

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Back in the saddle!

That's a really descriptive set of shots of the maturation of your tank tetratech....ermmm Jeff. As I've said before, your tank is very nice and well deserved of the honor. Congrats.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Jeff , the beautifull simplicity of the scape of this tank is breathtaking . I can't wait to see the new setup . Congrats
Garry

Editorial piece in TFH beating the "Tank of the Month" ???

Not when it comes to what we (the plant nerds) value most, a planted tank, not by a long shot .

Granted, the TFH thing was a nice accomplishment as well, but it was all about breeding Espei, and for that your tank can (theoretically) look like a bomb exploded in it.

There is no taking away from the work, thought, and even restrain that you have displayed to make your tank what it is today, and that's why you really earned this reward.

And yeah, I had to request my password to log into the site as I haven't been logged in in ages. My postcount there is the opposite from here

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tetra,

Any plans to enter this tank into the AGA contest? If you haven't already I think you should.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

well done houseofcards, aka tetratech, aka Jeff.

If I wasn't so scared of the mess I'd make, I'm almost tempted to try the two substrate idea (eco & sand) in my new tank. I still just don't get it. How do you keep it separate. I have no digging fish - so no problem there.

Cheers
TW

If I wasn't so scared of the mess I'd make, I'm almost tempted to try the two substrate idea (eco & sand) in my new tank. I still just don't get it. How do you keep it separate. I have no digging fish - so no problem there.

There's always going to be some mixing issue, but if the substrates are separately somewhat by a rock border it will be minimal.

My Scapes

I've been searching for petrified wood, since you told me that's what your rocks are. Couldn't find any here & I am bidding on a couple lots on ebay in USA. Hope they look okay in real life, when I get them.

None of the rocks I find in LFS ever look natural.

I will think about this twin substrate idea. If it doesn't work for me & everything gets messy, I assume it be a real hassle to remove the sand from the tank.

but if the substrates are separately somewhat by a rock border it will be minimal

Should I place the rock border, which divides the 2 substrates, directly on the glass bottom of the tank?

Cheers
TW

I've been searching for petrified wood, since you told me that's what your rocks are. Couldn't find any here & I am bidding on a couple lots on ebay in USA. Hope they look okay in real life, when I get them.

Be careful what you are getting. some petrified wood isn't very attractive in both structure and color. Some look very light and orange and other's might be very straight and flat. So make sure it's WYSIWYG.

I don't think it's critical that the rocks are on a clean glass bottom. I mean some substrate underneath the rock is fine. Just make sure the darker substrate is held back by the rocks. You can pour some more substrate in the area and see how much leaks through than adjust your rocks.

My Scapes

So make sure it's WYSIWYG

That's what I'm scared of. I've been outbid on this one already, & I don't know if I'll up my bid or not. What do you think of this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110132809194&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com.au%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D110132809194%2B%2B%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1

I already one a batch of this stuff http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Petrified-wood-All-natural-Arizona-petrified-wood-1-2_W0QQitemZ140123651975QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3219QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem I'll ask if the seller can pick out the red / brown ones for me. What do you think of these. They were fairly cheap, so I won't be too heartbroken if they are no good & I can't use them. Also, the guy seems to have heaps of them. If I like them & want more of the same, shouldn't be a problem.

Comments invited.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The first piece you were out bid on, looks kinda light and it will look almost white when placed in the tank under the lights. I haven't found those that attractive, but again that's my opinion. The ones that are more brown and less orange or off white like the one in the pic usually look better and more natural. Also stay away from pieces that look like they have broad striping from brown to white, again they don't look natural in the tank. You want to try and find pieces that look like little boulders and not flat rectangles, if that makes sense. Happy rock hunting.

My Scapes

Robyn,

The first piece you were out bid on, looks kinda light and it will look almost white when placed in the tank under the lights. I haven't found those that attractive, but again that's my opinion. The ones that are more brown and less orange or off white like the one in the pic usually look better and more natural. Also stay away from pieces that look like they have broad striping from brown to white, again they don't look natural in the tank. You want to try and find pieces that look like little boulders and not flat rectangles, if that makes sense. Happy rock hunting.

My Scapes

Thanks for the comments. I won't bid again on the first one then. What about the 2nd bunch? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Petrified-wood-All-natural-Arizona-petrified-wood-1-2_W0QQitemZ140123651975QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3219QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300116230944&rd=1&rd=1 AND THIS? TOO RED?

Cheers
TW

Hey,

I don't know much about this type of wood/rock, so I let you two figure out the right color and such.

But I want to comment on the last link from Robyn:

that chunk of rock is 8 ounces - meaning half a pound, right? I recently saw a rock of the kind that I have in my 20G at the LFS, about the same size as the larger ones in there (as such, not really big). Asking what it would cost, and learning that price is by weight, we checked the latter. 3 Pounds ++ !!!

Petrified Wood is just as heavy, I take it, so this 8 oz. one must be tiny, I doubt the measurements.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn sorry to be critical but that last link is very glassy looking and I don't think you will like it in your tank. I have a few pieces like that and I don't really use them or I use them in the back somewhere.

Do you definitely want petrified wood. Aren't there any landscaping supply type stores that you could look over their rocks. Around me I recently went to a landscape supply store and they let me pick through a pile of Moss Rock and take anything I wanted for $10. I might be using these in my new 46g.

My Scapes

ha,

funny thing:

and they let me pick through a pile of Moss Rock

Just last night I heard the name Moss Rock for the first time, from a NJAGC buddy. He likes them very much but couldn't show me an example as we were at AF and they had none.

Can you get a picture of one up here, tetratech?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

the criticism for the rocks is just what I want

I don't think you've commented on these ones yet. Seller said he can pick out the darker & browner ones for me. I'll also ask if he can pick out the rounder ones, instead of the flat ones - but I may not have a lot of control over what he sends me. At worst, I can always the tops completely with riccia and use them as little borders.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Petrified-wood-All-natural-Arizona-petrified-wood-1-2_W0QQitemZ140123651975QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3219QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem
.
This is what I have now. I sort of like the rock itself, but doesn't look natural. It's typical of the sort of rocks I find in LFS - more pretty patterns than natural. I will wander around some gardening type places & see what they have as well.

BTW, I'm posting my pics these days via photobucket - so they will never disappear, unless I remove them from the photobucket album - even if I'm no longer a premie, I think they'll remain. Is that right Matty - or will they still disappear?

Cheers
TW

Well here's one in the backyard. You can get an idea of the color. It has a flat sandy texture.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/files/1/8/9/5/IMG_7987_original.jpg

My Scapes

Well here's one in the backyard.

So, every time you want to add a piece to your tank, all you have to do is go outside with a sledge hammer and bang away

I like that type of rock, I for sure would not have assumed that it would be called Moss Rock, I thought such a stone should be greenish.

Once in a tank for a while, even the clearest sections of it should be somewhat "normalized" anyway.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So, every time you want to add a piece to your tank, all you have to do is go outside with a sledge hammer and bang away

I did attempt that to supply my new tank with rock (hint, hint) but I wasn't happy with the results so I ended up going to a landscape suppy and as mentioned picking throught a mountain of moss rock for the little pieces.

This is a a skid of moss rock you could buy for $250.
(not what I picked from). Many of the darker areas around the crevices, etc is actually dried moss, thus the name.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/files/1/8/9/5/IMAGE_001_original.jpg

Sorry for the bad quality. It was taken with my cellphone.

My Scapes

The best landscape place in my area, at least with concerns to rocks, is only open during the week, so usually not at the time when I can go there. I am off today, so maybe I have a chance go there.

Do you know of any other name by which this type of rock is known as? For example, the rock in my 20G and 40G and now also in the 125G (seems like I need more variety) is known in your fish store in LI (the big store, forgot the name yet again) as Picture Rock, but at my LFS as Zebra Rock.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All the landscape suppliers out here call it moss rock, but your right, I'm sure there are several names.

the rock in my 20G and 40G and now also in the 125G (seems like I need more variety) is known in your fish store in LI (the big store, forgot the name yet again) as Picture Rock, but at my LFS as Zebra Rock.

That big store knows very little about the fish, plants let alone the sticks and stones they carry. I believe Zebra rock is the term most use.



My Scapes

Update..

I promise fresh pics of this tank once my TOTM run has concluded. I've refreshed it a bit and added some new plants including HC Cuba and Ludwigia repens. I've also added in some additional hardscape which includes some locally found driftwood.

Stay tuned...........

My Scapes

Can't wait

Cheers
TW

TOTM

Dose this mean what I think it means?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Jeff ,Looking forward to the update .
Garry

Here's a current pic of the 72G. I've added some driftwood to the valley that I personally found in the bluffs overlooking the Nissequogue River on the north shore of Long Island. They are beautiful pieces that I've tried to incorporating into the curve of the valley in a sort of dramatic way. You can also see the HC growing in the foreground as well as a thicket of Ludwigia repens growing in the midground on the left side.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/files/1/8/9/5/IMG_0681apc_original.jpg



My Scapes

Tetra , Thats a very different look now in the central part of the scape .
It looks like you have moved some rocks out of the scape to accommodate the driftwood ?
You've also got some plants blocking the view up the river .
Much as it daunts me to say this ( of one of the "Masters" scapes ), isn't that a little distracting.
Oh well it is hard to improve of perfection ( geez I'm a suck up )
Love the driftwood BTW.

Garry

Hm ,

Not my favorite either, sorry to say that. Here is why:

- the driftwood, as nice as it is, seems artificial in these positions. I can imagine though that it will look better once it "ages" and doesn't look that polished anymore.
- the divider line created with the very bright green Wisteria is somewhat out of place. Why split the valley?

All other parts look nice and I am truly looking forward to the HC growth, in particular if you should go with the ADA substrate test. Once the HC covers the foreground the whole tank will look very different as any darkness from the ground will be gone. Hard to imagine now for me though.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, before I even posted the pic, I knew I would get comments similiar to LF and Country. The wisteria should have been cut so it doesnt completely cut off the valley and the pic is alittle dark to see the flow through it.

At this point it's experimentation with this tank. It's kinda done, but I'm looking for something maybe alittle different.

I just trimmed so I'll probably post a different pic possibily from a different prospective.

My Scapes

I knew I would get comments similiar to LF and Country.

Aren't you glad that you have such careful observers in your audience ?

As is often the case, a picture rarely represents the "real" tank, for better and worse. More shots from different angles for sure help in understanding the 3 dimensionality of a tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tetra,

Do you have any close ups of your riccia? Mine had been a little weird lately. Some parts are dark green, some are bright green. It looks like yours is the same.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hey tetra, what're the plants growing in the valley itself, in the sand part on the right side? Looks like e. parvi., but fluffier, like hygro poly.?

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Back in the saddle!

Hey tetra, what're the plants growing in the valley itself, in the sand part on the right side? Looks like e. parvi., but fluffier, like hygro poly.?

Nope that's just Difformis living up to its name. I must have 10 differnt leaf shapes depending on trim,light,location, etc.

I'm surprised no one picked up on the L.Repens as it slants in the same shape as the valley. That was the idea behind the wood on the left as well. It's sort of bending into the curve of the valley.

My Scapes

I'm surprised no one picked up on the L.Repens as it slants in the same shape as the valley.

I sure didn't see that

I didn't even notice the repens (which, btw, looks rather pale in the picture) as I focussed in on the wood and valley.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Current shot about 4 days post trim. Really nice color here, yeah the repens were recently hacked as well. I trimmed the wisteria on the sand so you could see through the valley again.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2460889960048205226BYLOVY?vhost=outdoors

My Scapes

I think that little change made all the difference. The wood somehow,oddly maybe, seems to fit much better than before.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Tetra , I agree with Matty , that makes a big difference .
Looks like you've done a big trim and added some Ricca ????? to one of the rocks on the left side of the river .
Looks like the HC has spread quite a lot in 4 days.

Great shot as always , and I agree with Ingo more shots from different angles would be a treat to see.

Garry

Current tank shot:

Current Pic

My Scapes

Tetratech

How have you been able to compensate for the PH raise the petrified wood has put on the tank? If now how did you know that it wouldnt raise it? If it did how if at all are you keeping it down?

Thanks
Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Very nice tetratech,

but I wouldn't be me (or you wouldn't be yourself either, in that situation) if I couldn't find something to bicker about :

I think the rocks are now a little too bare. I would rather like to see some plants overhanging the outer sides of the rocks (sides away from the valley) or even some small plants growing on the rocks, for example (albeit not a good one) having Nana petites growing out of the gaps between the rocks and such.

But maybe you just did a trim job and that is why the center is rather bare.

Otherwise, just as gorgeous then the day you won TOTM,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Beautifully sculptured tank no matter what you keep doing to it

fishmonster
The petrified wood should not affect the PH / Hardness of the tank

LF
Thanks for your comment. Your right, there's always some tweaking to do here and there. Maybe if I could get my tank in TFH like someone else I know I'll go all out.

fishpatty
Thanks for the nice comment.


My Scapes

What happened to all your cardinals? Didn't you have something like 30 in there?

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Back in the saddle!

Jeff as always , your scape is nearly perfect . They are never quite perfect are they
always someting to do , that's what keeps us interested .

Not sure I'm as game as LF to make suggestions , but it does appear to be a little bare
in the area LF pointed out . Are you in the process of changing things ?

Garry

nowher,

You mean I'm suppose to have fish in my planted tanks, oops I forgot hehe. Actually there's about a dozen or so in there. I think I had 25 or so at it's peak. I'm coming up on two years for these cardinals so I'm sure some died off from age. Since they are wild caught, one never knows how old they are when acquired. Interesting though I still have an amazing 6 otos from my original 9 or so. And some of my Amano shrimps are pushing two years as well.

Garry,

I'm really debating a complete redo of the tank, but to echo Ingo, do I have the time to do it.

My Scapes

tetratech,

About the fishies: first off, I hear you on the ever decreasing "interest" in fish as they serve more of a decoration role for the tank (except worker bees).

I can see the cardinals having reached their age limit, and maybe the Amanos as well, althogh I am reading some reports of a life span of over 4 years.

Otos,on the other hand, will easily exceed 5 years, just ask Cali on this site.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well that's interesting about the shrimp. I didn't realize they can live that long. Anyway I haven't purchased a fish in I don't know how long. I'll probably let these fish run their course and then decide on one big school. It definitey won't be cardinals. I think the whole idea of a large tight school all the time is a myth to a certain degree. You can't go by those shots of Amanos tanks since he throws them in and takes pictures. They always school at the point. One of the artistic APCers referred to fish in his tanks as "Paint Strokes"

At current between my three tanks I probably have about 100 cherry shrimps

My Scapes

At current between my three tanks I probably have about 100 cherry shrimps

It doesn't take long. I still have 99% of mine in the little 1.5 gallon. I am guessing there are over 50 of them in there. Maybe it's time to sell some as I don't think I can set up the 20G long right now.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Here's a current pic about a week post trim. I'm pretty much moving things around here and there on a somewhat monthly basis. In this shot I added more riccia to the rocks in the valley. After moving the riccia away from some foreground areas I also added a new plant (Echinodorus tenellus 'micro')to both the foreground and valley area.

Current Pic

My Scapes

Tetra , The Ricca on the rocks is a great touch . So a new plant , how about a close up ?

I agree about your fish selection Btw , I'm so over Card's mine hide all the time ,
Rummys are a hoot to watch in a bigish school ( I have 17 ) they play follow the leader
at speed all the time . Occasionally this cause's a pile up .
I think you would love them .

Garry

tetratech,

Looking very nice and way more natural now that the center area had time (and your help) to incorporate the rock valley some more

Tenellus Micro, yes? It should grow rather similar to normal tenellus then, right (albeit smaller, and isn't it reddish as well? ) ? While individual plantlets look very nice right now, wouldn't you have to take care of runners all the time?

The darker green areas on the right hand rocks of the valley, is that Riccia as well somehow shaded or some form of moss?

The only slight criticism I can make is that it seems like the way left group is not attached cohesively to the closer groups at the left rock area. The way right side seems to create more flow, but the left has even a hole.

Otherwise, better than mine anyway

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the comments guys.

Garry,
Rummys are very nice fish and definitely much better schoolers than cards. I might in fact go with those in this tank since they are fairly easy to acquire around here. I'll try to get a pick up of the new plant soon.

Ingo,
As usual very perceptive. Yes the far left is slightly detached since there's a space where there isn't anything in the substrate and the wisteria is sort of hovering over that area. I was just to lazy to plant more wisteria there about a week ago.

Yeah I expect the runners from the ETM will go around things but I'm not to worried. I think they'll be easy to remove. Yes the plant does have sme nice reddish hues to it, one reason I wanted it. The guy I bought them from said the plant is a really slow grower, but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case.

Very interesting comment about the Riccia and yes it's all Riccia. The darker Riccia on the right was taken out of my Aquasoil-based tank and was growing very dark in there compared to this tank. After having it in this tank for about a month it continues to grow this way. Also the left shape is smaller and tighter. Here's a pic from a few weeks ago when they were both side by side in the tank. The AS-based Riccia is on the right.

Riccia


My Scapes

Back in the day (a couple of months ago) when I had my 40G set up, my riccia would grow dark sometimes too. I never really did figure out why...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

so what ever happened to the posting on this one i loved this tank

Yes Tetra ...long time ..how about an update ?


Garry

He does still stop in!

Last Visit: 04-Feb-2008 07:58

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric