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Any chance on more color variation, not that it doesn't look great already?

Hey Cup,

I might put something inbetween all those rocks in front of the main grouping. There's actually dwarf hairgrass there that is coming in, but it's tough to see.

My Scapes

I personally think Bensaf has an algae problem and is waiting for it to clear up.

Sorry to disappoint you. Nope, no algae. Just been real busy. Have a long vactaion here next week, it's the end of Ramadhan, which is like Christmas here in Indonesia, so it's been hectic getting everything in work cleared up before the shutdown.

Plus I made a few small changes. Move the Reineckii further back, it was too distracting were it was and put some Rotala Rotundifolia in it's place, it's about 2 or 3 trimmings before it can even bedin to compete with yours and Franks !

Also added some Rotala Macrandra to the right side to break up the divison between stems and rossettes. That stuff grows like a weed, goes from a few inches to the surface in a week ! Lots of hyperactive pearling.

So I get one area trimmed, later trim another area, by the time that's finished , the first area needs trimming. I'm like a dog chasing it's own tail.

Well I'll have plenty of time next week to whip it into shape, so pics will be coming.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

LF I think your right about the Stargrass

Glad I am right about at least one thing

Bensaf - your tank must be like the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge. They start painting on one end and once they reach the other they have to start all over again . Good that you have vacation next week so you can spend a lot of time on here to get our tanks up to snag .

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 27-Oct-2005 03:41

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Errr....maybe I should elaborate.

The end of Ramadhan means the bars are open fully again.
Guess where I'll be ?:88)

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Oh come Bensaf, I'm sure your scaping skills are still above average even after a night at the pub. :%)

Small gliTCH I gots ICH.
Noticed at on my Black Neons this morning. I thing it's from a small drop maybe 1 to 2 degrees overnite. Heaters at 78f but room temp dropped to 70f. I also thing I'm cutting it thin with my one 250 watt visi-therm. Should probably put another heater on the other side. I've already dosed coppesafe at half strength and I'm raising temp a few degrees. Speaking of raising temp, do you guys raise the heater setting in colder weather?

Last edited by tetratech at 27-Oct-2005 12:51

My Scapes

tetratech,

I seriously doubt that the Ich is from a slow drop in temps over night by 2 degrees. I am rather sure that you create a much faster temp change when you do a water change.

About heaters in winter: for some reason my tanks are getting warmer (78 up to 80 now).

I will elaborate more later, have to go to a meeting now…

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 27-Oct-2005 12:55

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey fantastic tank tetra, well done. My only comment is that, from that last pic you posted, it looks like that rock on the left side has a big afro

I'm sure once the hairgrass grows in it'll look much more proportional, but right now I can't look at it without picturing a green-haired Jimi Hendrix.

Sorry bout the ich, by the way. I luckily haven't gotten the stuff for over a year now. I'm pretty sure the temp treatment still applies even when outside temperature drops... but if anything it's all the more important to keep it constant. A second smaller heater on the other side may be a good investment, as you've said.

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Back in the saddle!

green-haired Jimi Hendrix

NowherMan, whatever your on, me, LF and Bensaf want some.

I think your talking about the big rock in the middle. There's actually three main rock pieces (might be tough to see dark pic). The rotala is growing so fast I can't even keep up with the trimming, it's definitely overdue.

Last edited by tetratech at 27-Oct-2005 13:11

My Scapes

NowherMan, whatever your on, me, LF and Bensaf want some

I think I overdosed NO3 in my green tea this morning. Diagnosis - do a large water change, cut back on macros, shorten photoperiod.

And yes, I'm talking about the big rock towards the middle, the one with the rotala growing like mad... Hendrix Rock, if you will...

::ahem::

I'm actually kind of bummed I haven't been following along this Log more closely, there's some really good info in here. I'm talking about that info regarding green/ cloudy water being caused by ammonia and too much light. All along I - and I know many others - have been thinking it happens when there's too much NO3, or just too many nutrients hanging in the water column. I had one such problem several months back, and even running a diatom didn't help... it would come back in a matter of days. Then on a whim I added some hornwort and it was gone in a day. I thought it was because the hornwort was consuming excess nitrates, not excess ammonia... and here I must've been mini-cycling the whole time

Anyway, really great stuff you all have going on here. Very helpful.

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Back in the saddle!

I hope none of the "fishie" folks read this

I never treat Ich. Never had to. Not that I haven't had Ich in the tank, it just simply doesn't survive long.

Reason? The temperature. Living in the tropics I don't use a heater, quite the opposite I have to find ways to keep the water cool. I have a small fan attached to the top of the tank that runs for a few hours mid day to keep things cooled down.

If Ich ever shows up the fan goes off and the tank temp naturally rises to about 30o. This doesn't bother the fish at all, hey I'm in the tropics , if they couldn't take this natural rise from the outside temp they'd all be extinct by now.

Ich dissapears within 2 days, never ever gets out of hand, never more then a few spots. 2+ years never lost a fish to Ich. Usually only see it when new fish are introduced, even then it takes a week or so for the first spots to show up (so it may not be the temp drop in your case).

Most Ich meds and salt are very very hard on plants. The ones using dyes like Methylene Blue etc are lethal.

So I don't use meds just let the tank take care of it.

You find in a tank with a lot of healthy plants that fish rarely ever get sick. Their recovery time seems a lot quicker too. The high oxygenation, clean water, natural interactive environment and feeling of security that plants provide is an absolutely enormous factor in reducing stress and producing strong healthy happy fish.
Go to any planted tank specilist site and you will find very very few posts relating to sick fish.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

tetratech,

I would not recommend that you raise your tank temperature to 300 degrees, as Bensaf suggests

No seriously, I am sure you know all the things that are to be done to reduce the chance of a serious outbreak, like medicine, gravel vacuum (remove the “fallen off” stage), raised temperature. I wonder if you have the luxury to move the fish out of the tank (all of them) and treat in their temporary home. This way your plants will have no problems.

I had 2 Ich bouts in my 29G and treated with Quick Cure, both times without any losses (that I can directly attribute to the med). I used a ¼ dosage every other day for 2 weeks straight, with water changes on the days between dosing (including gravel vac). All plants in the tank did just fine, including my Rotala and Star Grass.

Once again though, I seriously doubt that a lowering of the temp over night by 2 degrees is a reason for an Ich outbreak – except if your fish are stressed for other reasons already and their immune system is way down. Temperature changes are a natural occurrence in every body of water, for example because of high sun vs. nighttime, or heavy rains, or snow melts in the mountains that carry cold water downstream. Did you ever have a power outage for a day/night? My tank dropped over 10 degrees last April with no consequence.

If the temp should be the trigger then I would say your fish are stressed for other reasons as well. One thing that I could think of is that you have very few hiding places for the Neons. Is any other fish chasing them? Also, the group of 5 is insufficient to give them a sense of security (just guessing).

Anyway, no matter what caused it, I hope you can beat it successfully.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I don't get ich, (sure fire way to get it!)

I run my tanks at around 79/80. which is probably too high, but everyone is growing and seem good.

I do have other disease problems though, random deaths and long sickness - although I more or less traced that back to water treatments and cleaning by the water company! I think high temps and stable fish populations(ie don't buy loads of news fish all at once)have a lot to do with not getting ich?

Actually the main reason why I am posting is cos I am going to the LFS today, new 6700k lights and loads of simple plants.

be prepared for questions boys!!!

GFG

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

As was very surprised I got ICH. Could be the fish were sick when I got them. The tank is very lush, plants are pearling, no aggressive fish in the tank. LF I doubt if it's because I only have 5 neons (I think that's a stretch)
Temp had been a steady 78F and I noticed the other morning dropped to 76F. I didn't think in nature temp drops by 2F in a few hours.

Living in the tropics I don't use a heater, quite the opposite I have to find ways to keep the water cool
What temp fluctations do you have overnite, if any?


My Scapes

What temp fluctations do you have overnite, if any?

It's goes from damn hot and humid to just hot and humid.

Only about 2 to 5 degrees tops. Very little seasonal change. We have hot and dry and hot and wet.

I suffer more then the fish.

The rainy season has just started. Tropical storm at 5 every evening like clock work. Quickly followed by a infestation of the insect du jour. I have a team of lizards running wild in the apartment to keep the insect population under control. I have had bats get into the bathroom. I found a snake outside the main door. Woke up morning after a night of heavy rain to find hundreds of fish flopping around the car park.I live outside town, it really is a jungle out there

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I have a team of lizards running wild in the apartment to keep the insect population under control. I have had bats get into the bathroom. I found a snake outside the main door. Woke up morning after a night of heavy rain to find hundreds of fish flopping around the car park.I live outside town, it really is a jungle out there
I'm very envious. I'm actually a big herp guy. I want to eventually do a paludarium, with chamelons in the branches above and fish swimming through the branches below. But for now it's just a dream.

My Scapes

You can have my kitchen then. The biggest lizard lives under the stove, about 6 inches. One of them must have been breeding 'cos we're finding lot's of little one inchers around the apartment.

I don't mind them at all. They keep the bugs away. Haven't seen a cockroach in yonks. I'l take the lizards over the roaches anyday.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Are you talking about "cicak", bensaf?
If so, I love them - they eat the mozzies and roaches. Well, except that one time when one dropped on my neck accidentally. Felt something cold and wiggly on the back of my neck - freaked me out a little.

-P

Day 34 Pic

I started adding wisteria and now stargrass to the left front rock area to spread the green alittle, but still keep the high in the focal point. This pick also shows the hairgrass coming in better, BN still trampling it. BTW - does dwarf hairgrass spread runners above substrate as well as below or is that my BN ruining.

Tank is looking good, except for some ICH. So far it's only affecting the Black Neons, dosing coppersafe and temp raised to 82f. Got a really high po4 reading last nite, like 5ppm. I give up. I've only been dosing the following.

1/4 tsp no3 twice/weekly
1/16 tsp po4 twice/weekly
Flourish 5ml once/weekly
Flourish postassium 2ml once/weekly

I know it's not the eco, I'm not a heavy feeder.



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

IMe dwarf hairgrass spreads through runners that are extremely close to the suface, though i will occasionally send runner deep beneath the substrate. if they are above the surface it is more tha likely you BN fault.

I think your right, the BN kinda sits on the grass and sucks on the leaves pulling them out. I might move him, but go try and catch him.

My Scapes

Man tetratech,

It looks very nice, in particular because I can see your hairgrass carpet for the first time. Good idea to add some green to the left side.

About the phosphate, are you sure you have none in the tab water? If it isn’t the tab, the feeding, and the Eco Complete, then what is left there? Maybe the rocks? I have no idea either.

Good luck with the Ich,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Lf,

I've tested my tap p04 levels "0". I don't feed alot so I don't think it's the fish food, although I haven't been doing alot of heavy duty vaccumming with the water changes because oof the cycling and also because the eco is like sand in many parts of the tank. That and I've been doing 30% wc not 50%, so that might add up, but the way the plants are growing I'm still surprised.

My Scapes

tetratech,

I did some calculations regarding your Phosphates and the info you provided. A few assumptions had to be made:

* based on Chuck’s Calculator, 1/16tsp of Phosphate (KH2PO4) dissolved in 72G concludes in 0.75ppm.
* Added twice per week concludes in 1.5ppm per week added.
* 1 - 30% Water Change per week (if done more often, values will be lower).
* Assumed is that the Phosphate dissolves equally with in the water column.
* Zero uptake is assumed (if uptake happens, values will be lower).

That said, I come to the conclusion that the maximum Phosphate concentration ever to be reached is 5ppm just before the water change. After that you reached equilibrium where addition and change is balanced. This point should be reached at 19 weeks.

If you tested your Phosphates before the water change (week 5) then a reading of 4.41ppm would be in line with this math example. If you tested after the water change then you should never have 5ppm.

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is the same example, but with the water changes twice a week between the addition of Phosphates:

The maximum reading before water change should be a 2.5ppm.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:


Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 30-Oct-2005 03:28[/font]

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You people have too much time on your hands, honestly.

Either that or you really enjoy testing for phosphates (I won't knock it as I've never tried it) and discussing it in detail. Personally, I don't see any algae in your tank and I really don't understand why you keep testing it.

I love discussing Phosphates

tetratech has a phosphate phobia (and I guess I do as well) based on his really bad experience with his initial Eco Complete substrate. I am sure he can, and will, tell you more about it.

I can tell you that my Phosphate issue is based on my readings of “The Krib” website, in particular the Collin Sears paper and the follow-up discussions. I know Bensaf says that the findings of these days are by now outdated, but it has a major impact on me.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Thanks for the analysis. So that does make sense mathematical, but I guess I assumed uptake would keep the po4 number always low. I have good plant health, etc, so is this further confirmation that the plants really only use a tiny amount or it's a bad test kit, although I've never had a problem with my po4 kit.

Another thing too, I have 5 willow branches, supposely sucking out nutrients and I'm still getting large po4 readings. I'm going to remove the branches and see if I get green water again.

Untitled:
We don't have too much time on our hands, what LF, Bensaf and myself do, we do for the good of all aquarists. We are martyrs for the rest of you, we sacrifice time with family, friends, etc. for the pursuit of perfection.




Last edited by tetratech at 30-Oct-2005 06:55

My Scapes

I also love to spend time on my tank in the pursuit of perfection, or at least a pleasing result. But I was just wondering why you two are still so bothered about PO4 if you now have 5ppm PO4 and no algae?

I can offer some new topics for conversations if you're interested...

Untitled,

Hm, when was the last time you looked at my log? No algae, I don't think so. Wanna have some of mine ?

I got the purigen, but I am too chicken to use it. I am afraid it would filter out the microscopic food for my Espei fry (as I don't feed them explicitly in any form).

Ingo

PS: Let's hear the other topics that you have in mind, I am always open to add to my confusion :%).

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have had the worst day, got some great plants but have ended up getting stuck on stupid DIY rubbish and suffering seriously from owning too much worthless rubbish, I have whinged to my BF who was is and always will be lovely but this thread has just made me laugh and laugh and laugh.

THank you. seriously there are tears in my eyes.

my new plants - all low light and simple are currently in the bath.......... the tank they are to go in is in the loft. ho hum time is 11.30. pm

and me? I am taking apart a cupboard thing which has far too many screws.

but my BF, chocolate and this thread = light relief and happiness.

and some actually useful infomation.

GFG

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

Little Fish,

I also look at your log and I do see the algae. That's why I didn't post my "don't worry about phosphates" in this one and not yours... However, if I'm not mistaken, you're getting much less algae now, don't you? I have the feeling that you're dealing with persistent algae rather than flourishing algea. In other words, your existing algae is surviving while no new algae is growing. If that is the case then all you need to do is get rid of what you have and no new algae will grow. Possible solutions (in a list form for your pleasure):
1. Removing it manually, a little everytime until your tank is clean.
2. Dipping plants in bleach solution to kill the remaining algae (wouldn't do that to your moss, though).
3. Overdosing flourish excel for about a week to kill the algae.

I must say that I've never tried overdosing excel myself. A warning: there are discussions going around whether this method is safe for your fish or not, and for a tank your size it's not going to be a cheap solution.

As for the Purigen, I think you give it much more credit than it deserves. It clears the water to an astonishing degree, but it doesn't sterilise, it's not a UV lamp.

I'd like to dedicate a few pics to my Bolivian Ram. Many times this fish takes a back set to the German Blue Ram because of the it's lack of color. But lately my Bolivian has really been showing some nice color. This fish I believe is one of the best fish to have in a S.A. setup. It's colorful, hardy and has a great personally with alot of expression.

This pic shows off some of it's color:



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

And this one shows some personally. A really great fish.



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Wow an amazing ram I wish mine was that colorful. What do you feed?

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

bcwcat22
I basically feed tetra tropical crisps, hikari algae wafers and frozen blood warms once a week.
His colors might also been an indicator of water quality. A have a pretty big load of healthly plants right now which is probably making the water very o2 rich and good for the fish.

My Scapes

algae wafers?? never thought of that. Mine has ok color but it is in kinda a small tank though I keep the water quality pretty well have had some serious buffer problems though. Thanks for the info I always want to improve my feeding variety whenever I can.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

I feed the wafers to the tank, cause I have bristlenose plecos, but I notice the ram eats alot of it too. In fact I see him trying to wrestle the sinking algae wafer away from the plecos.

My Scapes

I'd like to point out that those phosphate charts assume that there is absolutely NO PO4 whatsoever in your tap water. That is quite an assumption to make, and one I wouldn't bet the farm on. I have enough phosphates in my tap water that I've never dosed ANY K2PO4 supplements. Some areas might have enough PO4 to cause problems in tanks.

Nice Ram by the way tetra...looks like quite a character!

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

Good point on the p04 charts. I actually have a zero po4 reading out of the tap, but I know many others do not.

Big question really is, how high is too high with po4. This seems to be of great debate, obviously the relationship to the no3 number is important, but to keep po4 of 5ppm you would technically need no3 of 50ppm and that would make me uncomfortable.

My Scapes

Hi,
I have the Seachem Phosphate kit.
In it under "interpretation" it says:

"Phosphates are non-toxic to fish and most inverteberates,
but are ideally kept below 1 mg/L to minimize hair algae
growth. In freshwater, phosphates are not critical and
the allowable concentration is dependent on variables
such as nitrate, manganese, iron and vitamin
concentrations as well as the extent of use of live plants.
...... if excessive algae growth is not a problem then
the phosphate concentration may be considered as
acceptable."

That, sounds typically vague to me!

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Typically vague, well said Frank

tetratech, as you know I have a tab phosphate of 2ppm, which is in line with Matty&#8217;s statement.

And based on Franks statement I am in a pickle as I have hair algae. I would assume that if I use a phosphate remover then I would not be able to add phosphates again. You know what I mean?

The Ram is gorgeous. How come that he looks so blue in the first picture? Does he switch colors? And your ability to take nice photos helps the selling of this fish as well .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Frank,

It is kinda vague, but like everything else in life nothings black and white, it's shades of Grey.

Basically the po4 levels are o.k. as long as your other ferts are in the correct ratios to achieve a balance. (I'm starting to sound like Bensaf - :%)) As he would say look at the plants, what are they telling you.

Last edited by tetratech at 01-Nov-2005 10:06

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LF,

We posted at the same time.

PO4:
Yes I do remember you have 2pp out of tap, with 50% wc you probably don't have to dose alot. what is your number?

As far as the ram, at times it does look more colorful than other times and it's rich color in recent days is what inspired the pics. The blueish hue in the 1st photo is probably partly due to the camera, but the second photo does not due it justice colorwise. It has these flurescent red hues on it's fin edges that really seem to radiate at times. It actually has light blue dots on it's anal fin (visible in 1st pick).

But the personally of the fish, prancing up and down the front of the tank is very similiar to some of the big saltwater fish.





Last edited by tetratech at 01-Nov-2005 10:24

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tetratech,

I don&#8217;t know my current number

Seriously, I haven&#8217;t tested in about 2 weeks, ever since I got the value down from 10ppm to 1ppm. But based on Bensaf&#8217;s advice I started to add phosphates again about 1.5 weeks ago, with a smaller dose than before.

I figured it cannot harm as I had just as much algae before reduction than after .

Yes, I saw the nice red fin edges on your Ram, they struck me as well .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think there is so much to be said for consistency. There is a wide range of parameters that are acceptable, but when something changes too much from week to week, we open the door to problems, even if we are trying to correct a problem.

In other news:

Oh happy day. I caught the bristlenose pleco that has been destroying my hairgrass and pretty much ate my cardinalis plant. I moved him to another tank. I still have an albino bristlenose, but I haven't seen that fish causing any damage.

BTW - LF I caught the pleco by placing an algae wafer in front of a net and then scooping him out when he was munching on the wafer, it's also a great way to count your otos. I have seven and six of them came down to check out the algae wafer. But on the other hand if you have alot of yummy algae , they just might laugh if they see that puny little wafer. Just kidding, I couldn't resist.

Last edited by tetratech at 01-Nov-2005 16:11

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tetratech,

My Otos have never gone for the wafers that I offered them in the smaller tanks. The Platies were always faster .

And I don&#8217;t know if they went for them at night (the times I fed the wafers after lights out) as it was dark.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow, I drop wafers in during the day and the otos are basically all over it. The suspense in your other log is killing me.

My Scapes

Day 38 Pic

I've extended the wisteria pretty much to the glass edge of the tank on both sides sort of tapering into the corners. I've also cut and planted some stargrass tops to give it a kind of cascading effect, since stargrass is so versatile. Still having trouble with some black leaves, but I undestand that is quite common with stargrass.





Last edited by tetratech at 02-Nov-2005 10:45

My Scapes

Here's the pic:




tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Black leaves = not enough light

But I am sure you knew that . Keep an eye on it as it can be the beginning of whole stems and their leaves rotting away. I had this a few times when I place the Star Grass in &#8220;not so favorable&#8221; light conditions.

Otherwise it looks very nice, I think the Star Grass group on the left, just below the upper group, should grow up to form a combined group.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, it's a great plant, but it's so delicate. I might try to angle the rotala on the left alittle more to let more light pass through to the stargrass. The lower stargrass on the left will eventually join with the main grouping (good catch) The front was only planted a few days ago and hasn't reach the height yet the front grouping on the right was planted about a week ago and has that nice cascading effect.



My Scapes

Here's a pic of the java moss actually growing. I think it picks up some current in this spot.



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Here's a pic of one of my pencil fish. Bensaf was right these fish colored up, although they are a bit aggressive definitely pushing the bigger black neons around. Speaking of Bensaf?

tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Oops, there's that Ram again. He's always getting in the way.



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Hey Tetra, does your Ram always stay that colour (with dark patches in his body), or do you find that the dark areas lighten up sometimes? Is he the only Ram in the tank? The reason I ask is because my Bolivian Ram pair darken up considerably (just like yours) whenever they're in spawning mood and remains so for about a week or two after they've spawned. At other times they look more like this]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/witje/Fish/parents_babies.jpg[/link] and [link=this. Maybe you should get yours a mate if he doesn't already have one (and if you're interested in that sort of thing). Fascinating fish aren't they!

-P

He is doing the solo act right now, but I do plan on adding another one or two. I better get going on it, because he's about 18 months old. As far as the dark patches, I don't think those come and go. Your rams look young. How long have you had them. Mabye they get darker with age.

My Scapes

Nice pictures tetratech,

I commented already on the Bolivian, but I wonder why your Pencils are aggressive. Maybe it has to do with the fact that you only have a few of them?

Are you still dealing with Ich? If not, how about adding a few more?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The pencils are interesting, they move around the tank and pick at everything. They like to swim through the rotala and pick at the leaves (probably some algae in there )

Two of them do a dance in the middle of the tank, they actually rub up against each other. I'm not sure if this is agression or mating ritual. I would like to get more, but I don't want a bunch of agressive fish scattered around the tank.

I beat the ich, but I did lose one black neon in the process. Treated with coppersafe and raised temp alittle and increased surface agitation. So far I've lost 2 rummynoses early on and the one black neon. When you dealing with tetras, your going to have some loses, their just to sensitive to many things.





My Scapes

Day 41 Pic

Everything looking good, hairgrass continues to fill out. The Wistera really is growing horizontial I have not really had to cut any height down, just a few strays here and there. Added 2 more pencilfish for a total of 5.



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

tetratech,

I am glad that you are still around, I thought already you and Bensaf jumped ship .

Your tank looks lovely, now I can really see a nice hairgrass carpet. I guess removing the BN helped.

Also, your group of Star Grass on the left is coming together nicely.

Keep them coming,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nope, I plan on sticking around for a while. I was at Aquarium Adventure today and I was very tempted to buy alot of fish, but I left with just the two pencils.

They had some really nice bolivians and I was even thinking of getting a keyhole cichlid, but I wanted to read up more on sexing the bolivian and the compatability of the keyhole they also had some orange apistogrammas. These had flamming orange fins, but again, I didn't know enough. I almost bought 20 cardinals, but backed off because the tank is only 41 days old. Looking forward to seeing some nice new pics of your tank and the rescaping.



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tetratech,

Wise decision to wait on the purchases and to find out more about the individual fish first. Apistogrammas are a fish that I am interested in as well, but like you I know too little about them (and I am not buying any new fish now anyway).

So you have what now, 5 pencils? Why did you not beef up the group of Neons?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yep, got 5 pencils now. They are definitely not real schoolers, but have a pecking order and the one with the most color seems to be the boss. Not sure what would happen if I had 20 of them. I do want one big school and I'm still not sure what that's going to be. The black neons are good because they seem hardy (lost one to ich) and are readily available at most lfs at very reasonable prices. The pencils I only see at aguarium adventure. I still like the cardinals but I'm not in the mood to buy 20 and end up with 15 after the acclimation etc. When I mean acclimation I mean from the time the lfs nets them and getting them realized into my tank.

Last edited by tetratech at 07-Nov-2005 08:50

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Yep, got 5 pencils now. They are definitely not real schoolers, but have a pecking order and the one with the most color seems to be the boss. Not sure what would happen if I had 20 of them. I do want one big school and I'm still not sure what that's going to be. The black neons are good because they seem hardy (lost one to ich) and are readily available at most lfs at very reasonable prices. The pencils I only see at aguarium adventure. I still like the cardinals but I'm not in the mood to buy 20 and end up with 15 after the acclimation etc.

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I got it,

did you post this one here twice so you have the honor of No. 300?

See, I got lucky with the decision of which fish should be the big school. My Espei took that job on themselves .

Oh wait a minute, I didn't want a big school

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

did you post this one here twice so you have the honor of No. 300?
Tried to delete but I always get an error. Wow 300, maybe I'll post 120 pics to overtake your log

It's amazing how fast you use up real estate in your tank:

5 Pencils
4 Black Neons
7 Otos
3 Corys
2 Rummynoses
1 Albino BN
1 Bolivan Ram

25 Fish and I want a big school of at least 30 or more.




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Well,

Assuming you want to keep all the fish that you have right now, there are a few additions that you &#8220;should&#8221; make:

At least 3 more Cories
at least 2 more Black Neons
at least 4 more Rummies

equals another 9 fish, totals to 32 fish. Now you add 30 of a big school and you are for sure &#8220;nicely&#8221; stocked .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Day 44 Pic:

My rotala starting to lose it's reddish pink hue, so I dosed more traces and it pinked up over the last couple of days as you could see in the pic.





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Here's a full tank shot as it sets in my kitchen. Taking from my kitchen table where I sit and ponder life, kids and aquaria



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hey tetra,

have you given any thought as to what you want that big school of 30 to be of?

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Back in the saddle!

LF,
Actually I do agree with your fish additions. Now that I've removed the BN, I'm trying to determine how much damage if any the 3 corys are doing to the DH (dwarf hairgrass) This is the catch 22, what's more important the fish or the plants.

Nowhere,
I'm leaning toward cardinals, since nothing else I've seen will give me the same striking effect, but my tank isn't even 2 months old and cardinals are very sensitive to instability.

BTW - I have some wiggle room to move fish, because I have my 12gallon setup, which currently is housing 4 gold tetras, 1 bn and about 8 guppy fry.



Last edited by tetratech at 08-Nov-2005 09:42

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H. Difformis

I definitely see why this planted is called Difformis, I counted about 10 different leaf shapes. It is actually creeping to the front of my tank and when I cut it back I discovered hairgrass growing underneath it.



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Yeah tetratech,

Even in your picture I can see various leaf shapes.

Now, I have one comment to make about your tank. Whenever I looked at it in the past (and today), I somehow thought that something is missing and I never could put my finger on it. I think I found it &#8211; There is a rather limited sense of depth. Your growth is all along a parallel axis to the tanks back, at least the bright plants. I wonder what could be done to show the depth of the beautiful bowfront.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Interesting observation!
Actually might be hard to tell with the pics but my tank actually has alot of depth. I main area is almost a half circle cresting to within 5 inches of the bowfront of the tank with that smaller rock in between and in front of the center and right rocks. Also the driftwood is placed at 3 different depths from front to back to also give depth. I believe I need to get more green behind the driftwood since it's very dark and so is my background.

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but my tank isn't even 2 months old and cardinals are very sensitive to instability

Is your tank cycled, tetra?

See, I have a theory about this: I think some fish are hardier than we give them credit for. While it may be true that cardinals wouldn't survive the cycling conditions that WC's could stand, I have no doubt that they'd be able to handle the kind of "instability" that some say they couldn't.

I think if you hang around a site like this long enough, and take in enough info you eventually get to the point where you recognize what having an aquarium is all about: we care for and take care of water - the fish are incidental.

My point is - logs like this one show how careful you are about water (you read through a phosphate level spreadsheet for crying out loud ), so IMO you shouldn't be overly concerned with fish sensitivity. You - and many others here - pay more attention to water quality than 99% of people with aquariums, so whereas you might have some qualms about adding a certain type of fish because of stability issues, the average person - and the fish for that matter - would probably consider your conditions pristine. That's not to say that fish deaths won't happen, but most of those times it's out of our control (Calli's panda cory tank for example), so there's no point in worrying about those situations anyway. My REAL point is, I guess, if your tank is cycled, I don't think you should worry about adding those cardinals now if you want to.

Just my 2 cents anyway...

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Back in the saddle!

What's wrong with my phosphate level spreadsheet ]:|



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,

Thanks for you insight. I actually have had a long history with cardinals and did maintain a school of 12 in my 46g for about 18 months. Many times I tried to increase that number and for some reason I would always net (no pun) 12. I tired this several times adding 4 or so to the established school and I would always end up with 12. It wasn't always the new ones that would die, sometimes the established ones would succumb and one of the new ones would take it's place. I know this sounds weird, but that really is what happened. I did this at least 5 times and I always ended up with 12. I don't know if it's the water in my area or the supply, but I am very anal with cardinals. I put them right behind Discus and blue rams.

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What's wrong with my phosphate level spreadsheet
You know what's wrong with your ]:|]:| po4 sheet. I'll tell you! It doesn't take into account when you dose coppersafe it kills alot of stuff besides the ich and that increases your po4 levels. So there!

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Oh wow, that is strange, tetra. Now I remember you talking about that in an earlier post some time ago. In any case, I'm sure a fresh start in this new tank will yield better results

And LF, nothing AT ALL is wrong with your spreadsheet. I just think it shows an attention to detail that's unheard of outside these parts, which was part of my point: what many wouldn't care about, lots of people here pay special attention to. I would look at it as a source of pride

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Back in the saddle!

You know,

I had the coppersafe initially in my spreadsheet, in various concentrations. But the sheet got so big that a) it wouldn&#8217;t fit on the screen anymore and b) it was way beyond the 100k upload maximum.

just kidding

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm sure you did LF

Back to the depth of my tank. Here's a pic with red line drawn in to show the the cure of the aquascaping. Might be easier to see from a side shot, but as I said the grouping comes out to the front in a half cirlce and even the wisteria on the sides is tapered into the corners on an arc.



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tetratech, I love the look of your tank. I think it has a zen effect or along that line. Do you know what I'm trying to say here? LOL Not overdone to the point you can't see the different textures and leaf shapes with out really concentrating hard.
I have really been enjoying and been helped by your log and Little Fishes. Good work
jan

Puddle cat,
Thanks for the tank comments. Yes I do understand what you are saying. I have tried to keep things simple, but dramatic by using only a few species of plants, but arranging them strategically. Glad my log was of some help to you.

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The tank is coming along, How are you keeping the difformis
so low? are you trimming it or is it growing that low?

BTW thanks for your response on APC,

Megil.

Hey Megil

I've been cutting down the difformis in one tank or another for probably well over a year and it honestly doesn't grow vertically any more except for a few stems. Actually if I do nothing it will crawl right to the front glass. I cut some away and I had alot of dwarf hairgrass growing underneath it.

I guess my avatar on APC gave me away

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tetratech (or should I call you HOC? ),

Yeah, I can imagine the depth of your tank, I guess it is very hard to show on a photo.

Maybe having some plants peak out from behind the smaller rocks on the left and right of the main group would help to intensify the depth vision. What do you think?

Ingo

PS: puddle cat, thanks for mentioning my log as well

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah that's me. Kinda obvious with the same avatar. Everybody knows everybody's business these days. ]:|. The APC site is obviously more advanced and I like the sponsor forums as well.

Back to my depth issues? Actually if you look at the pic you know I started to put more stargrass inbetween the rocks and coming forward of them to give a cascading effect. I can't go any further to the front because it will interfere with the hairgrass. I'm finding the hairgrass to be a "pain in the hairgrass", I'm actually seeing alittle BBA in it (O.K you could stop laughing now ]) because of the detritus that collects in it. I think a powerhead will solve the problem, but I don't like putting extra equipment in the tank.

Last edited by tetratech at 09-Nov-2005 09:53

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tetratech,

OK, I stopped laughing (no, I didn&#8217;t).

May I recommend some Flourish Excel for the BBA .

I simply gave up on my hairgrass, at least for the moment. I let it fight it out with the Glosso of which one is the main plant by the Rock Valley. I actually have no doubt which one will win (the glosso).

About your Star Grass addition &#8220;between&#8221; the rocks &#8211; I actually mean &#8220;behind&#8221; the smaller rocks, just lurking out. This would show that the rocks are not all the way in the back and would add a third depth level (plants lurking, rocks, plants, from back to front).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

May I recommend some Flourish Excel for the BBA
I guess I might have to take my own medicine.

I know Tom Barr usually says BBA is low co2, but my co2 has been in the 30's for a long time now.

The BBA is nowhere else, and I know alot of people complain you included about the stuff that get's stuck in it. I guess I'll add some excel and see if there's any improvement then I'll either go to the powerhead or think of another groundcover. I might even go to the riccia but that's going to add alot of maintenance.

I Know what you saying with the stargrass, but I think I've done that, I'll have to take a pic from a different angle.



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Day 46

Against my better judgement I added 10 cardinals to my tank today. I'm going to really track this group and see how they do. I dripped acclimated them for 3 1/2 hours before putting them in. Once in my tank I noticed one or two have flat or their bellies are inverted, so I'm expecting a couple of losses. To be honest I'll be happy with a 70% long-term survival rate. Here's a pic you could see the streaks of blue and red.





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Wow Tetratech, you tank jsut looks more and more magnificent every time you post a picture. I jsut love your tank. I hope that mine will look that cool when I finally get to do one like that. I have one question for you though. I have heard a lot of people talking about how they "drip acclimate" some of their fish. What is "drip acclimating" and how exactly do you do that? Sorry to take away from your post but I know you will be able to explain it to me because I did not think it was worth startign a whole new post for this silly question. THANKS though!!! And again, I just LOVE you tank! It is SO GREAT looking!!!



Christina

Chrissy,

Thanks for the comments. As you could tell I'm really enjoying this tank.

Drip acclimation is simply taking a piece of airline tubing and tying a knot in it. The knot when adjusted will slow water flow to a drip. So if your acclimating new fish you could drip water from you tank into the bag the fish came in. It's good for any fish, but for fish like cardinals I think it's really important.

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tetratech,

&#8220;Against my better judgement&#8221; &#8211; Yeah, it is an addiction

In your latest picture I think I am able to see the &#8220;peeking&#8221; plants behind the rock. If I wouldn&#8217;t be so lazy I would copy the picture and process it to make it lighter so I can see what else is in there .

A question or two regarding the dripping:

- I assume you create a vacuum to get the flow through the hose going, how do you &#8220;fix&#8221; the hose on (in) the tank?
- How do you support the shipping bag that contains the fish? Do you stand there for 3.5 hours and hold it ?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good Morning.

Yeah it is an addiction, but the minute I put the cardinals into the tank I know I want a big school. As far as the drip method, here's a list LF style:

1. Float bag in tank for about 15 minutes
2. Put some tank water in a big cup or glass and place it on top of glass canopy
3. Tie a loose knot in airline tubing and get flow going into tank from cup or glass.
4. Adjust knot for drip rate desired and place in bag from LFS
5. Continue this so the bag is full emptied than full again. Usually around 3 hours, less for less sensitive fish.
6. Net fish and put in tank.

I usually go for a pretty slow rate, like two bubbles per second.

Last edited by tetratech at 11-Nov-2005 08:01

Last edited by tetratech at 11-Nov-2005 08:01

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Having technical problems. I give up!]:|]:|]:|

Last edited by tetratech at 11-Nov-2005 19:07

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Yeah yeah,

&#8220;Technical difficulties&#8221;, right. You are just trying to drive up your post count .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Was...

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it...

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that.....

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obvious...

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Little...

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Fish.

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That's a pretty bad survival rate for cardinals, but I bet your lfs doesn't quarantine them for a week when they get them in. Mine generally all survive, but like I said my lfs quarantines them(and the neons).

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

The 10 cardinals made it thru the first 24 hours, but today when I checked my tank one had died, and another has lost it's color on the back half of it's body and is not swimming with the school, so that's probably going to be two down. I'm shooting for a 70% survvival rate. Here's a pic:



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Well not sure. I've purchased cardinals from probably 5 different stores in the past year and they are very tough to acclimate. Some of my lfs have stopped selling them completely. Other's have told me they simply lose to many. Once you get them past the first few weeks their actually pretty solid. I have otos and rummynoses in my tank as well and I never have a problem with them as long as the tank is cycled. Some LFS have told me the supplier keeps them in RO water, which is another problem, because once they hit regular water they are dealing with things they were never exposed to.

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tetratech,

Do you notice a small white pimple like growth on your cardinal&#8217;s mouth?

I had that on my Neons and all, except 2, are dead by now. I first suspected NTD as well, but Heidi (Houston) asked her fish store guy and he mentioned to her about a strange, still unnamed, disease that cannot be cured and sooner or later (depending on the individual) kills the fish. He said that would be explicit to Neons, if I remember right, but I guess cardinals are so closely related that they could get it too. The white blister did not always stay on their mouths, sometimes it disappeared and the fish died later anyways. I treated with Melafix and Primafix to no avail.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Check out my other thread on the cardinals. I think I figured out what is causing the demise of this group.

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Tetra%20Talk/66224.html?200511140924

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Eep...

I remember having a cardinal school go down like that- same strange discoloration starting at the base of the tail and creeping it's way up to the head, resulting in death.

However, I think my problem was infected tubefix worms. I fed them all tubefix worms one day, and then next they're ALL dropping like flies. This was after they had survived 3 days in the thank, so I would hope it was not an acclimation issue.

Well I couldn't let day 50 go by without some picks. Here's some of the occupants fighting it out for an algae wafer.



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Here's a shot from the right front side.



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Front Shot



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Are those the pencil fish in that first shot? They're very nice And I love that ram! Any more cardinal deaths to report (I hope not)?

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Back in the saddle!

Yes, those are pencils I have 5 right now and they seem to be really hardy. Very active, but not really schoolers they move around thru the plants and chase each other around. They even chase the bigger black neons.

I lost a total fo 5 cardinals thru the first 4 days. I seemed to have stablized at the remaining 5. I was really hoping for 70% survival.

Here'a a pic of one of the pencils.





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Well,

I mentioned already how beautiful your tank, plants, and fish are, so I am not going to do it again .

But for the first time I seem to understand why you recommend to everyone that they should have some driftwood branches sticking out of their thickets (as I see them for the first time in your tank now).

And, for some reason I didn&#8217;t see that earlier either, the closeup of the Pencil also shows the &#8220;main&#8221; rock of your group in detail. Well, that is not a rock &#8211; is that some form of concrete with gravel mixed in? I though all your rocks are fossilized wood?

Sorry about all these Cardinal losses, I know I am not going to get some anytime soon. What are your plans there? Will you still try to increase the size of that group?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Driftwood,
Actually as you experienced it's tough to find good pieces I have three pieces left center and right and the only one really good is the one on the left. I need to take a pic with more light on top cause it's hard to see the DW with the black background.

Rock
The rock was sold as petrified wood from a very specialized aquatics store on Long Island. I believe it is petrified wood and the pieces of stone in it is just part of it's natural formation. I actually like it because of it. If it's not petrified wood, I'm going to be really pissed. If you look at my full tank shot you could see from a distance it looks like petrified wood.

Cardinals,
If the group of 5 hold on I will increase the school. These 5 look really good as of now, but with these fish you never know. BTW - Took you advice and added two more rummys. The acclimated same time as the cardinals and they are fine, so now I have 4. I'll probably add a few more. I might move the black neons into my 12 gallon with the 8 gold tetras. The black neons, pencils and belive it or not the otos all of the same basic colors.

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Well all 9 cardinals so far are looking good, the 4 new ones I bought look fine thus far. For me, it's cards or bust. Nothing else looks as good in my tank. I think I'm going to move the 4 black neons into my 12 they should be o.k with 8 gold tetras. That will pretty much max that tank.

So my current stock is:

9 Cardinals (plan to increase to 35 to 40)
7 Otos (plan to increase to 10)
5 Beckford pencilfish
4 Black Neons (plan to move to 12 Gallon)
4 Rummynoses (Increase to 7)
3 Corys
2 Bolivian Rams

34 Total Fish (Plan to increase to 67-70 fish)

I still plan to add a few other interesting fish that I might find. The cardinals and rummys are great schoolers and occupy lower 1/3 of tank. The Pencils and black neons occupy top 1/3. Bolivian rams stay on the bottom.




Last edited by tetratech at 16-Nov-2005 11:08

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tetratech,

But if you remove the Neons, then the 5 Pencils are the only fish that occupy the top 2/3rd of the tank. That&#8217;s a little empty.

You know, Gouramies will sound very interesting to you in no time .

Also, how about a nice school a Hatchet fish for the top?

Ingo

EDIT: so you plan on 1 fish per gallon, does that mean I should plan on 125 fish?

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 16-Nov-2005 11:39

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Actually I forgot about my guppies. I have 4 of them in the tank and have no where to put them. They actually stay on top as well. I was thinking of a few hatchets, but my glass cover doesn't completely cover the tank. I left the plastic shield of the back. I find it to be a pain and I'm afraid some of the hatchets might jump out.

Here's a pic of the cardinals. If you look closely you could see my new ram and some other fish as well. The pic is kinda blue looking I was experimenting with the settings.

I'm going to keep looking for one of those sparkling gouramis they are just like the croaking ones, but have nice color.

BTW - I think your probably way over with all your fry on the 1"/gallon.








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Nice fish tetra

How are the rams getting along? Any signs of aggression? I'm curious how your will work with a few of them, since they're unsexed and whatnot.

Cardinals look great too.

As for the lighting, looks like you used either custom WB or tungsten... or maybe a flash/ flourescent preset. Am I right?

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Back in the saddle!

Rams
So far a little agression from the original one, which by the way is alot bigger than the new one. I think I have two males, based on fin and color, but I'm not 100% sure.
I guess if I get one more and it's a female it wouldn't be good.

Cardinals,
I'm holding my breath. I 5 from the original group seem fine after the purge of 5 in 4 days and the new 4 I added all seem good. Problem with cardinals is that I got into this too relax, not worry.

Lighting,
Excellent catch. It's tungsten. I think the best way to get good pics is to hang extra light on top of your tank before you shoot.

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You need more corys, tetra!
At least 3 more, but I would probably add a bunch more (you have the space) because I love 'em.

Sparkling gouramis would probably be too shy in that tank with the boisterous pencilfishes and the Rams. I have 3 in my dwarf tank and even with other dwarf, peaceful fishes they tend to hide a lot in the broad-leaved plants.

-P

upikabu
How colorful are the sparkling gourmais? They had a pic of them in TFH Magazine and they looked really nice. Supposely they are very hardy as well.

Your probably right about the corys, My big problem with this tank are bottom feeders. Everything seems to uproot the hairgrass runners, even the cory's alittle.

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Here's a pic of my old ram and my new ram (mini me) I think they are both males. See them swim amongst the "weeds"



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Last edited by tetratech at 16-Nov-2005 20:02[/font]

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My sparkling gouramis are quite colorful, similar to the pics you saw in TFH. But since they are very small, you'd have to look closely to see the sparkles. From a distance they look quite plain, unlike some bright colored fishes like cardinals, Endlers, etc. Here is a pretty bad pic of one (with Endlers) that I took a while ago. They are pretty hardy fish IME, just make sure you get a group of at least 3. I made the mistake of getting only two initially and one (the one pictured above) bullied the other literally to death. I added 2 more and now they get along fine.

Ah, I didn't think about the hairgrass. Do hairgrass root well eventually? I have E. tennellus in one of my tank with a bunch of corys and their roots do anchor well so the corys can't uproot them easily when they're searching for food.

Love the pic of the Rams - looks like Dad &amp; son. Who knows though, the small one could turn out to be a female.

-P

The hairgrass does root pretty good, but the runners are so close to the surface that any little movement from the corys or something else will uproot them. I honestly think hairgras is more trouble than it's worth. I also think you need a powerhead directly at them so everything doesn't get stuck in it.

I might add a third ram, but I'm afraid I might get a female and the two males will fight (assuming I have two males)

BTW - I really like that gourami, I haven't seen any yet in New York.

Last edited by tetratech at 16-Nov-2005 20:29

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Jsut thought I would pop my head in and say Hi. Also, I wanted to tell you how great the tank is looking. I love the rams. They are SO cute. I think I woudl probably stick with jsut 2 for a while then mayb eadd another one after you get soem other things in the tank, jsut to see how they react to everything else. By that time you will probably be able to tell what kind of personality they have, that might make it easier to decide whether or not a 3rd one would get picked on or vice versa. I have been looking for pencil fish because now I want some after looking at the pictures of yours!
Great Tank! Please post some more pics soon. Maybe another full view of the tank please?


Christina

tetratech,

I like the Ram couple. I am wondering if 2 would swim side by side when both are male, even when they are of clearly different ages. Or was that the only time you saw them together in harmony?

And what is tungsten? A light type?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 17-Nov-2005 08:49

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

The new one does follow behind my original one at times, but when he gets too close the bigger one pushes him away. Reading up alittle on the fins male/female I do think I have 2 males. I'm ont interested in breeding them so I might add a third if I could get another male.

Yes, Tungsten is a light type. Did you see upikabu pic of his sparkling gourami

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/witje/Fish/sparkling_gourami.jpg

Nice fish!

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Christina,

Here's a full tank shot as requested. I changed something in my tank. Could anybody tell what?



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Anubias barteri, middle next to the rock!!!


EDIT: tungsten lighting is the basic type of lighting you see in normal light bulbs. take a picture of a lamp in your house with your camera WB on the daylight setting - the picture will have a yellow, warm tint to it. now change the WB to the tungsten setting (the indicator for this usually looks like a little upside-down light bulb) and you'll notice the pic looks more natural, much "cooler". this is good for taking pictures of people/ things indoors without flash. IMO I find I take my best pictures of the tank on the regular daylight setting, under-exposed by a stop or so.

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 17-Nov-2005 10:05

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Back in the saddle!

No, Anubias Nana

Just to say something different

Ingo

EDIT: Actually, Nana is Anubias Barteri var. Nana

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 17-Nov-2005 10:02

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Very good

If that's nana, it's the biggest-leaved nana I've ever seen...

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Back in the saddle!

But it is tiny in the picture

We need more than one opinion anyways so that a winner can be declared.

My Nanas and Barteries have rather similar leaf sizes (will check tonight to verify this statement), but the Nanas are shorter stems.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well I'm staying out of this one, I really don't know my Anubias. Do you guys think it looks good there. Not sure if I'm going to keep it in there. Would it look better with a few more scattered around.

Last edited by tetratech at 17-Nov-2005 10:16

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tetratech,

Actually, when I look at the Amano books I see that he rather often prefers to group them rather than scattering them around.

I like the grouping, although mine are scattered, at the moment.

And I like that you got one as it breaks up the leaf type (small fizzle stuff ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Anubias is a funyn thing, I think it depends more on conditions. I have anubias barteri with short stems and large leaves, and also with long stems and smaller leaves. The leaves on my anubias b. nana are small, but that's because I left them floating on the surface to grow out, so the high light made them come in smaller. So the question is, is this a mature v. nana grown in lower light, or is this a small, immature barteri? Only time will tell. As for placement, I think it kinda looks awkward where it is - doesn't seem to fit in with the other plants being that high up. Maybe move it to one of the red circled areas below? IMHO, of course...



NowherMan6 attached this image:

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LF, Are the anubias easy to break at the rhizome into two plants.

I think my Anubias is this:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=24&amp;category=lighting&amp;spec=Low

Nowher, we posted at the same time. Yeah that was my other idea lower and multiple places. I guess I'll have to experiment. My LFS also had a Anubias barteri 'coffeefolia' It was quite large and sold for $15.

Last edited by tetratech at 17-Nov-2005 10:36

My Scapes

ANUBIAS BARTERI VAR. NANA



Tetratech,

I would say that NowherMan6 and I have a tie, as either or could be right. Both are very similar and equally pretty, it is just a question of size. What makes you think you got that one? Did you order it there?

About the rhizome, I never separated my Anubias, but there are 2 basic procedures I have heard of:

1) use a really sharp tool (razor) to cleanly cut the rhizome in half.
2) Wait until the Anubis develops a side-shoot (for a lack of better words), and cut that one off. One of mine has that stage, new leaves are growing on both sections. One section is about 90 degrees sideways to the other.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

No I bought it at a good LFS, but it wasn't labeled specfically. Just looking at pics on that PlantFinder link mine looks like the ANUBIAS BARTERI VAR. NANA.

BTW - The 5 original cardinals are all doing well and I didn't lose any of the 4 new ones. So I might go back this weekend and pick up some more, assuming the 9 hold solid.

My Scapes

Why did you decide on cardinals instead of neons?

Have you thought abotu getting neons instead of more cardinals?

After all the bad stories I have heard about the cardinals lately. I have decided to stay away from them for atleast a while.

Good Luck with the ones you have though.


Christina

If you could get a close up shot of the leaves of the anubias we can tell for sure. Nana leaves will be mreo heart shaped, as in the pic from that link. I haven't given up on barteri yet!!

Also, good to ehar about the cardinals. They do look pretty good in that tank.

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I've always preferred the look of cardinals over neons, richer color, more elongated shape as well, but also the neons are e to NTD, neon tetra disease. Although the cardinals are tough to break in, once they are situated they actually do quite well. But to keep these fish you must be willing to put up with some losses initially and keep your water very clean.



My Scapes

If you could get a close up shot of the leaves of the anubias we can tell for sure. Nana leaves will be mreo heart shaped, as in the pic from that link. I haven't given up on barteri yet!!



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

I think he's right...



The replay shows that the evidence in inconclusive. Therefore, the ruling on the field that it is anubias barteri v. nana stands! First down!


p.s. damn that's a fat oto!

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Whatever you guys say.
I guess my 7 otos in my 72 are kept rather busy. I should probably add a few more.

What do you think of
Anubias barteri 'coffeefolia' It looked pretty large, but I guess it depends how big your tank is. To Little_Fish it must look small.

My Scapes

I agree,

This Oto is very well fed. Mine are not skinny, but not like this. I guess he eats a whole algae wafer in one sitting .

And to the First Down:

It is not that important

Ingo

Edit: Here I am not that sure, but I think Anubias barteri 'coffeefolia' is a form of Anubias barteri var nana.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 17-Nov-2005 14:00

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I had a lovely coffefolia anubias once. I think it's my favorite type. The leaves come in with a reddish hue and eventually turn dark green with deep grooves in them. It also grows much lower and is shorter than barteri. Big leaves, low growing plant. Mine melted when I transferred it into my shellie tank a few months ago Wish I had another one...

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