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Actually I missed a dose while I was out of town.

See my other thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/67955.html?200601111643

Last edited by tetratech at 11-Jan-2006 16:58

My Scapes

I have seen the other thread,

But I didn't dare to comment in it as one never knows if an entry was your last, once you are on a roll .

Maybe the skipping set it back, let's hope that this is the issue then dosing longer should fix that.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's just wild to look back on it and see it so lacking in wisteria because wisteria has become such a ounced and dare I say, defining element in your tank.
Yes, you may say that. It just comes in so nice and it's low maintenance.




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For those of you who mentioned my tank lacks depth (you know who you are)

*whistles nonchalantly*

Pity most people look at the front of a tank and not at the sides

To be fair though, pictures never do a tank justice. They always look better in person, can't beat the 3 dimensional view. Photo's do tend to flatten the look of a tank, moreso when you use any kind of zoom.

Maybe we were a little harsh.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Maybe we were a little harsh.
I can take it, keep the honesty coming.

Anyway here's a pic of the E.Stellata Wideleaf. I'm starting to enjoy the constrasting leaves. It hasn't colored up so I'm thinking of upping my FE dosing or maybe my light isn't intense enough to get the color.

Current dosing schedule:

n03 - .5 tsp
po4 - .05 tsp
Flourish - 10 ml
Flourish trace - 5 ml
Flourish excel - 20 ml (currently treating bba)
co2 - slow moving stream of bubbles

Although plants look really healthly I don't get much pearling. Although I don't necessarily associate pearling with plant health I do like to witness pearling at times, so I've changed my co2 diffusion from canister intake to a limewood airstone under my spraybar (too cheap to buy a glass diffusor.) I do see all the tiny bubbles bing wooshed to the plants. I want to see if it increases pearling




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Last edited by tetratech at 12-Jan-2006 09:57[/font]

My Scapes

I have a glass difuser setup for a few days so far and I have already noticed some pearling..Not on any of my wisteria tho.

The Excel will definately reduce pearling. So you may not see much until you're finished with that treatment.

Depends on the plants too. Heavy oxygen producers pearl heavier, faster. Riccia is the classic example, Java Fern while slow growing makes a lot of oxygen and will pearl at the drop of a hat. Wisteria seems to be somewhere in the middle.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

bensaf,

Why does the excel cut back on pearling?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Don't know. But it's certainly widely reported and it's something I've experienced myself in the past.

Maybe it somehow slows down the plants oxygen output or reduces the amount of oxygen in the water.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Pic update. I believe it's Day 110 (give or take)

The tank has definitely entered a new phase of lushness with the revival of all my stem plants, plus the additional ones. Here's a shot looking through the left size.




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Oops alittle too big,



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Shot of the main group showing contrasting colors and shapes


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Full room shot,



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tetra,

Tank certainly does look great, but looking at how well the stem plants are growing, I can't help but feel that you can take it to the next level by doing something with the right side of the tank, building up more height with stem plants etc. The hardscape is there, it just needs to be filled in.

the wisteria carpet can remain, of course...

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Back in the saddle!

You know what,

For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long. It seems tiny, what happened?

Don’t misunderstand me, it is very very beautiful and the shot you took makes it look like a piece of art, but the fact that this is a big tank is not coming across.

Maybe it is because of all the small leaved plants, I don’t know.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tank certainly does look great, but looking at how well the stem plants are growing, I can't help but feel that you can take it to the next level by doing something with the right side of the tank, building up more height with stem plants etc. The hardscape is there, it just needs to be filled in.
I could appreciate your comments, but I probably will not do that. I feel keeping the stem plants bunched in a tight group off center gives me my stems, but also allows me to have the drama of open water which will eventually be populated by a big school of something. Again I need more tanks.

For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long
You caught me, I knew I couldn't fool the LF eye for long. It is a 20g, I just couldn't admit it with your big tank.

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No, it’s not a 20G

I know that the plants cannot be that small when proportioned down to the size of a 20G, except if you would have miniature versions of each in which case I would love to have some of them.

I guess once a load of schooling fish are swimming in the tank and they become visible in the picture then it will be much easier to judge the tank when comparing the size of the fish to the rest of the tank. Yeah, I guess that’s it, thinking about it more made me realize that even some of Amano’s tanks would appear small if there wouldn’t be the 100 Cardinals swimming around.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That's a very good point about Amano's tanks. Sometimes the only way to get a feel for the size is by seeing a large school of fish. Speaking of Amano did you see this additional link I put in that shows more pics of his big tank in his home. It also is part of a gallery of pics from ADG and Oliver knott that will make you sick.

http://www.pbase.com/plantella/niigata2005amanoshome

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For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long
"Cheeky young pup" Stick this in your 20g.





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Last edited by tetratech at 13-Jan-2006 16:09[/font]

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I thought this pic was a good fusion of fish, plants and art.



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Cheeky young pup

You are flattering me, not with the cheeky part, but with the young pup one .

Looking very nice, the Star Grass is really coming in strong. Also, the front of the hill (do we have a name for it yet? ) is coming together. Did you trim the Diandra?

Is the right side the area that the Rams call their home? Or are they perusing the whole tank?

What’s the latest on fish? What are your current thoughts on the large school. Wanna have about 20 Espei?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The front of the hill (do we have a name for it yet? )
Not as of yet, I'm open to suggestions.

Did you trim the Diandra?
Yes, I think I mentioned it in an earlier post (I know it's hard to catch them all) that I was amazed at how well the diandra grew and then when I looked closer to see a black section 3/4 down the stem. I guess it shows that the plants get most of what they need thru the water column. So I cut back. It's kinda struggling, I don't know if it's one of these plants that doesn't do well with the excel overdose treatment.

Is the right side the area that the Rams call their home?
How did you know. They do peruse the whole tank, but are on the right side 99% of the time.

Still haven't decided on the large school yet, your espei's do look nice. Here's an updated pic from tonite. The stargrass is almost to the top as well as the rotala. I'm not looking forward to the trimming. I'm torn between replanting all stem tops as opposed to cutting and letting the lower part regrow.



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I also decided to change my method of co2 diffusion. There was nothing wrong with the canister injected method, plant health was really good, but I wasn't getting any pearling. As Bensaf pointed out it could be a possibly of the excel treatment that you pointed out as well, but I wanted to try something else. So I setup a limewood airstone right below my spraybar. Here's a pic as the microbubbles go up and then across the tank. (I'll probably eventually get the glass diffusor for aestetics and for effectiveness,although this limewood airstone gives off really nice small bubbles.



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tetratech,

I just set up my 2nd DIY Co2 with a limewood block. I really like the small bubbles it makes too. Right now I have the ladder going on one side of the tank with the block under my filter. I havent noticed tons of change but its only been going for a day. My Bacopa did crack the surface today but I have added some other stuff in the mix too.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I hear ya Wingdsc. Something about those little bubbles.
Make sure you test your co2 levels with both of those going.

BTW - I was in my lfs the other day. I picked up some otos for my 12g as well as 2 kuli loaches to help move around the sand and on my way out I noticed they were selling riccia.

So I took some as well. Fiqured it would be fun to play around with it. I thought it was interesting the way it was priced $1.99 per ounce.




Last edited by tetratech at 15-Jan-2006 18:48

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Nice find on the riccia!..I'd like to see how it turns out in your tank setup

I thought it was interesting the way it was priced $1.99 per ounce.

So how much surface area is an ounce?

As far as my Co2 levels go....
I might have to actualy go buy some test kits but right now as long as my fish aren't freaking out then things are good. I was actualy thinking of hooking up a 3rd bottle just to see what happens.

Edit:
Maybe that will have to be a new thread.....

Last edited by Wingsdlc at 15-Jan-2006 21:47

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Fiqured it would be fun to play around with it.

It is fun to play with. But once you've got it, you pretty much have it for life. It's remarkably easy to grow and grows fast. You only need one little tiny scrap to survive and you have a whole new batch.

I got rid of mine a while back to make room for other plants. Thought I got rid of it all but it keeps cming back. Even in the small non Co2 tank it keeps popping up.

Not a big problem it's easy to remove. It pops up tangled in moss , ferns Anubias. I just leave it be til there's a big ball of the stuff, then I pull it out. But a tiny piece will remain snagged somewhere a few mionths later you have a big ball again.

I think it will work well in your tank. Just hold it down on a stone with a hair net or mix some in with the moss.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

tetratech,

Yeah, I think Riccia is a very nice plant, look at all the Amano tanks that have full ground covers with it.

But I also believe they are a pain in the neck to keep trimmed. You will have to cut them short frequently to avoid the bottoms from dying off and the rest floating to the surface (or being swirled around the tank and settling all over the place).

And unfortunately I currently know one other person who has problems with not maintaining his ground cover right .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You will have to cut them short frequently to avoid the bottoms from dying off and the rest floating to the surface (or being swirled around the tank and settling all over the place).
Yes I have heard that. I plan on just using it on a few rocks, etc., but I know the little pieces are going to be a pain.

My Scapes

I really like the look of the E.Stellata Wide Leaf. It reminds me of exploding fireworks (especially if it starts to color up more), unfortunately it has a very week stem structure as you could see it's being straighted with a bbq stick.



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Eusteralis Stellata, var. barbequii



It is very pretty though

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Eusteralis Stellata, var. barbequii

You know I read this and for a second I was going to look up that name. Not enough coffee yet:%)

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I'm sorry to intrude in such impolite manner, but according to what I see in the pictures, especially the last one, you have Limnophila aromatica there, and not Eusteralis stellata. I say this because of the shape of the leaves and also because of the slight colour that can be seen on the underside of the leaves.

According to my experience with L. aromatica, your problem is lack of nutrients rather than lack of light. Try to add a little more fertiliser before you mess with your lights and see what happens. If that is the problem you'll see that it colours up very quickly (2 - 3 days), and it will also become more robust so that the skewer will not be necessary anymore.

Last edited by Untitled No. 4 at 16-Jan-2006 13:29

Son's of a $%#&. I know the aromatica is many times sold as E. Stellata. This pic below from the Krib is saying it's E. Stellata and this is exactly what my plant looked like when I purchased it. The new growth looks much different from the original growth tha melted away.



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And where have you been all that time Untitled No. 4? I missed you.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I've heard of the water sprite for wistera trick, but this is ridiculous.

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That picture from the Krib shows a really poor E. stellata, if you ask me. It can, and it often does, look much better. But there's nothing wrong with L. aromatica, it's actually quite a nice plant. Add some more Flourish/TMG/whatever it is you're using and see how nicely it grows as it developes deep purple shade on the leaves, first on the underside and then on the top as well. It's also a little less moody than the E. stellata, but it shows right away when it doesn't get enough nutrients.

As for where I have been, I was here lurking most of the time. I was also busy at work (not all of us have the time to surf forums from work...) and then busy with setting up a new tank a few weeks ago. And anyway, I don't think I've had much to add to all that was going on here, but it is nice to see both of your progress.

Untitled, yep I think your right I pretty much confirmed that it's the aromatica, but each one looks very similiar here's two better pics from the Plantfinder at APC. The first one is aromatica and the next is e. stellata. These pics are taken from the same tank with the same conditions.

First the aromatica:

null

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and the E. Stellata



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The E.Stellata is smoother and does grow bigger as well.

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They usually sell Aromaitica and Stellata side by side here in the same tanks. When I see them together they look almost identical yet there's always a difference I can't quite put my finger on. Seen seperately I can never tell the damn difference.

The narrow leaf Stellata is very easy to spot, but that's one finnicky plant.

I prefer the Aromatica anyway, it's easier to grow. like the light purple undersides, real nice shade. I think it's a bit more subtle too, the Stellata is a bit "show offy" for my taste.

If it is Aromatica I agee with untitled the color will come from nutrients rather then light. Think about it, the main color is on the underside of the leaf, light is not going to play much of a role there.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

If it is Aromatica I agee with untitled the color will come from nutrients rather then light. Think about it, the main color is on the underside of the leaf, light is not going to play much of a role there.
That's really an excellent point. I'm going to try and up my Flourish dosing. I'm not using a dedicated FE supplement, the diandra is not coloring up as well. Guess they aren't getting much FE from the roots thru the eco. I was hoping with the eco and the flourish they would be fulfilled in the FE department.

Last edited by tetratech at 17-Jan-2006 06:23

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My stargrass has reached the top of my tank, from maybe a 1 inch clipping in about 30 days time. So that's about 3/4 inch per day based on my tank being 22inches tall.



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And what are you going to do with it now, tetratech?

I am very keen on finding out how the next trimming will go.

I will keep my fingers crossed,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And what are you going to do with it now, tetratech?

You must be reading my mind. After I put up this post I was going to edit and say "what do I do know?"

It looks really good right now, but I know it's just a moment in time. I know last time it stalled after cutting it back, but I wasn't running the same levels of no3 at the time. I did prune some stems and they did grow right back. Maybe I should run a poll?

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Well,

How does the bottom part of it look like?

My tall ones usually have very thin bottoms, with loads of water roots (that sometimes find their way back into the substrate), and no leaves at least in the center parts of a group.

I guess not trimming it is no option anyway, so the poll should be like:

a) just trim off the tops
b) replant the tops and dispose the bottoms
c) other options (please explain)



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I guess another possibility is to trim out some of the middle stems to allow more light to enter the middle. Not sure how that would look.

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I like the idea of replanting the tops for this one. With a tall stem plant theres always the risk of making it look stringy. If they're tall they should be bushy, IME

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Back in the saddle!

Wow..Nice growth!

Here's an updated pic of the foreground area of my tank.
I covered two rocks with riccia and placed them jutting out from some of the other rocks that are now almost forming a border with the wisteria in a more classic open foreground look. (Need some bigger rocks to complete).

I also decided that the controverial E.Stellata is better suited as a midground/background plant because of it's one thick stalk, so I'm going to attempt to move that forward a bit.



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Nice picture tetratech,

It also seems that the Blyxa has settled in nicely.

I agree with you that you need bigger rocks to make an impact with the Riccia.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think the Riccia is a really good choice in your tank.

You'll be able to propagate it pretty quick. When the current rocks get to "haircut" time you can use the clippings to make new rocks. It'll fill in that central area where the group of 3 Japonica are real nice.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks guys!

As you can see, my 1 ounce at $1.99 riccia didn't go that far, but as Bensaf points out I'll probably just wait for it to grow. One concern I have with the bowfront and growing foreground plants is this. I have 2.7 wpg the tank is 22inch deep. The bowfront does have a darker area in the front of the bow, so I'm hoping there is enough light to grow the riccia.

I agree Bensaf, the riccia works well with the dark substrate in that center area it will green it up without being too distracting.


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tetratech,

I think the Riccia will be very distracting as it will create the bubble effect that you always wanted and as such draw a viewer’s attention to it in no time. A living air stone .

But in a good way .

I hear your concern about the lack of light in the front section. You might have a point there. The Riccia I have (and yes, I do have some that came in with the moss) doesn’t look too good in the areas that are low light within the moss. I guess we will have to wait and see how low the light in front there really is.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think the Riccia will be very distracting as it will create the bubble effect that you always wanted and as such draw a viewer’s attention to it in no time
You give me too much credit


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Well my little experiment with my co2 diffusion methods definitely confirmed something. I had recently changed my diffusion from thru the intake to a limewood diffusor under the spraybar. Both methods have kept my ph at around 6.2 to 6.4, but I'm noticing pearling on both my rotala and stargrass which never happened with the thru the intake method. So Bensaf's comment about the bubblemist is dead on. I'm sure I would get even more pearling with the finer bubbles that the glass diffusor makes.

Here's a pic (not a great one) showing current diffusion method. The wood airstone is right below the pic. You could see all the small bubbles going up and then sprayed across the tank. My bubble counter is set to a slow moving stream.

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Last edited by tetratech at 19-Jan-2006 19:09[/font]

Last edited by tetratech at 19-Jan-2006 19:11

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You should try the glass diffusers. You'll get much smaller bubbles. Your 'ol mate Robert @ Aquabotanic is selling some nice ones for $8.99 - on sale.

If I remember correctly the wood airstones will corrode and disintegrate over time due to the CO2.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Errr, ya'll know my feelings on glass diffusers


But whatever works for ya... by the way, what did you do with the tubing going from the CO2 tank to the airstone? Did you hide it or am I missing something?

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

You don't like the glass diffusers? I must have misses something, some where...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Love 'em my friend, love 'em. One of the best moves I've made. Neat looking, cleans up easy, not at all unsightly, does a great job saturating the water.

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Back in the saddle!

Thats what I thought but I guess I read into your post wrong.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Your 'ol mate Robert @ Aquabotanic is selling some nice ones for $8.99 - on sale
I think I'm on his do not sell to list.

Bensaf, you know the wood diffusor is just a bridge to the glass one.

Nowher the tubing is there, right in the middle of those bubbles.



Last edited by tetratech at 20-Jan-2006 00:10

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NowherMan6,

I guess you didn’t know that tetratech is also known as “The Man in Black”. He managed to so almost completely into stealth mode for his entire equipment, all black.

Sounds good with the new diffusion method. This glass diffuser thingy (that I am sure you will switch over to in no time) is very seducing. But I think I would have to give it a little more thought before I am sold on (for my tank, that is) the hassle of splitting the line and making sure each end gets the same amount CO2 worries me.

tetratech, I am a little surprised about your bubble rate. Given that we have the same unit you must be injecting more than I do (although my flow rate is fast too, it is not a low stream). Is your rather low ph a target you desire or is it a necessity because of the CO2 level you try to achieve?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Man in Black
Might have to come up with a new av!

As far as the bubblerate. I'm a believer that the co2 should be pushed to the highest rate possible. Right now my plants look good and the fish seem really good to.
Could also be my diffusion rate isn't as good as the glass diffusor cult members. My ph looks to be between 6.2 and 6.4 late afternoon, so with a kh of 3 that gives me anywhere between 36 to 58 ppm.






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Yep I gave up counting bubbles too a while back. Just a steady stream going in, i'd guess 4 or 5 bubbles a second .I try to keep the pH at 6.6 but my Kh is higher at 5.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I guess you didn’t know that tetratech is also known as “The Man in Black”.

Hate to burst your bubble here, but there's only one Man in Black, and his name is Johnny Cash. Sorry tetra. Still, maybe he liked fish tanks, I dunno...

As for the bubble rates, I'm in a similar position as tetra. My CO2 is somewhere in that range - according to CG calc. - but fish have shown no signs of stress, and that's good enough for me.

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Back in the saddle!

his name is Johnny Cash
Yeah, but does Johnny Cash have:

Black trimmed AGA tank
Black self stick background
Black substrate
Black heater
Black intake tube
Black tubing

and black diandra stems

I really doubt it!

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Ye forgot the black beard algae !

I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire
Are you having a bad day?

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It's Saturday. Getting ready for beer. Just humming my favorite Johnny Cash song.

Always thought that particular song would work well in an advertisement for hemorrhoid ointment.:%)

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

OMG! Every time I peek my head in here I leave laughing so hard it's just not right. (After three kids laughing too hard is not a good thing...)
The things you guys get up to!
Funny I've often though the same thing about that song!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I really wish I could join in on the singing and beer drinking, but although it is Saturday I will have to go to work for a few (up to 14) hours. ]:|

That is my ring of fire, at least today.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire
I must admit I don't know many Johnny Cash songs. Sounded more like something out of "Lord of the Rings" You know, movie stuff.



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Some updated pics and changes. I decided to establish a "beachfront" since I was so close to it anyway with all the petrified would. So the wisteria is now contained behind pieces of rock leading to the open foreground that contains blyxa and riccia and some hairgrass. I also trimmed some of the stargrass (yes, I blinked first) and planted it on the right of the main group so again I have stargrass bordering the group. The diandra is still very weak and it's now behind the new stargrass stand on the right. It has been given me alot of problems and I don't have the luxury of adjusting my parameters to fit it and I don't have another tank that I could play around with. Could be lighting or the excel treatment weakened it.






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Last edited by tetratech at 22-Jan-2006 10:29[/font]

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In case it's hard to see in the previous pic the whiteline follows the rock border.



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Here's a comparison of before and after the beachfront.



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Closeup shot of some of the rock border to the right showing riccia cover rock. Missed a few spots covering the rock with the riccia also I have some duckweed I noticed trapped under the hairnet. &*$% lfs



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Yes I can grow moss. This is one of the few places it grows well.



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Blink Blink

Well, looks nice, and so far the Star Grass on the right of the main group fits right in. Once grown in, it will give the Rotala and the Stellata more of a center stage in the tall plant group.

Funniest thing is: I just finished my maintenance (couldn’t do it yesterday, worked 13 hours in the office) and opened FP and what do I see, your beachfront. I just happened to start the removal process of the Glosso and cleaned the area in front of Rock Valley, making it an open gravel space, like a beachfront . More about this later this evening in my thread (can’t take good pictures now, have to wait until all the bubbling wears off a little).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I like the beachfront look, it adds a different dimension to the tank, I wish I new more to be able to say that better but I do like some open ground in a planted tank, I think it gives the eye a path to follow and a place to rest in between all the green. Tetra your tank looks great as always and I'm sure the riccia will fill in and cover the whole rock pretty soon. Ingo I can't wait to see the pics of your new beachfront. Man that glosso really grew though!

Last edited by luvmykrib at 22-Jan-2006 13:53

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thanks for the Beachfront comments,

LF,
Yep, pretty much fine-tuning the center display. Looking forward to seeing your beachfront.

Lumykrib,
Thanks for the comments on the beachfront, still adjusting a few things, but so far I'm happy with it. I agree that it breaks it up more and gives more constrast.



Last edited by tetratech at 23-Jan-2006 04:53

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Yeah dude, that beach front thing literally works. The right side of your tank can now be called the wisteria jungle, because it looks very much like a miniature jungle on the edge of a beach. Ever been to the carribian, to any of those islands down there? Seriously, that right side reminds me of flying over some of those silands in a plane, looking down from above. very cool.

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Back in the saddle!

Seriously, that right side reminds me of flying over some of those silands in a plane, looking down from above
I'll take it!

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Any new ram breeding? it's been a while now...

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Any new ram breeding? it's been a while now
It's funny that you said that. Just the other day I noticed that rich brown-orange body color again. So the courtship as begun once again.

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Must've been all that time relaxing on the beach together. A few new life spectrum coladas, some brine shrimp cocktail served chilled - it was a regular honeymoon for them!

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Back in the saddle!

Here's a closeup of the ricca after about 5 days. Seems to be growing. I didn't do the greatest job covering the rock and as I mentioned I trapped a piece of duckweed in there as well.



tetratech attached this image:


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The rock looks very natural that way, moss doesn't pop up and entirely cover a rock all at once, it takes over gradually, you've captured the look where the moss is showing it's potential and the rock being slightly visible doesn't detract at all from the moss. I would give it the time it needs.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,
Thanks for the nice comments about the riccia. I of course agree with you. I think in another week or so it will really look good.

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More Rams to look out for, lovely

I like the Riccia Rock and I can’t wait to see its progress. If you haven’t done so already, try to make pictures of it from the same distance and angle all the time so maybe one day you can post the stages in comparison.

Having it on a rock should make pruning rather easy, I guess. Do you see any fish nibble on it? I think my Platies in the smaller tanks do that.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I thought this was an interesting pic. It shows the microfine co2 bubbles that are coming off my wood airstone that aren't even strong enough to break the surface. If you look closely you could see some pearling on the rotala.



tetratech attached this image:


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I notice I get the same thing periodically, though to me it's more of a bad thing than a good thing - it means my filter outflow has slowed down enough that there's no longer enough water movement throughout the tank. That's when i know to clean.

In the past I've noticed this buildup of little surface bubbles right above plants that are pearling heavily. The bubbles would be so fine they wouldnt break the surface. Before the redo it usually coincided with BGA showing up somewhere...

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That's an interesting point. I really didn't contribute it to reduced flow just that the bubbles are so fine coming up from the diffusor that they aren't breaking the surface. In fact I have these little bubbles all across the 4 feet of tank. Another thing you'll love about the ehiems is that with all those bioballs instead of pads your clean out your filter every 3 to 6 months.

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I really didn't contribute it to reduced flow just that the bubbles are so fine coming up from the diffusor that they aren't breaking the surface. In fact I have these little bubbles all across the 4 feet of tank.

It's most likely quite different in your tank than mine. I have a HOB, remember, and the intake and outflow both take place nearer the surface of the water than with a cannister set-up. What SHOULD happen with mine is, little bubbles go up to the surface but dont break cause they're so small, but then get pushed around to the filter outflow and get broken up eventually. When mine sit I've learned to associate this with a dead-zone forming. Since the intake on a cannister is much lower in the water you have sufficient flow lower down, something I don't have... yet. That's why to me it's a lovely looking thing... but nevertheless I try to avoid that with my present set-up.

Another thing you'll love about the ehiems is that with all those bioballs instead of pads your clean out your filter every 3 to 6 months.

Already looking forward to it...

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Back in the saddle!

The bubbles clinging to the surface is quite common, even for fairly large bubbles. Normally there will be thin film or slick on the suface of the water. How thick that film will be is dependent on a number of factors.

The bubbles get got under this film and cling to it raher then bursting.

By the time they get to the suface they may not even be Co2 bubbles but rather o2. As the small micro bubbles reach for then the surface and there's agas exchange where the co2 is dissolved and replaced by O2.

This is probably one reason why so many where sceptical about the glass diffusers and so surprised when they worked. People assumed the bubbles just went to the top and burst. Waste of gas was the common perception. Chances are most of the bubbles hitting the surface are no longer Co2.

I notice myself, as maybe you do, that a very large proportion of the bubbles produced by the diffuser make it to the surface - yet we have no problems getting and mintaining the good required Co2 levels. QED.

Last edited by bensaf at 24-Jan-2006 20:42

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

here is a thread from another place and this kind has kind of a neat set up for diffusion. 200G with DIY Co2. A little crazy if you ask me but his tank looks nice.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I guess I'll bring my thread back to life with a pick.

Here's a current shot of one of my riccia covered rocks.
Growth in length, but not too much add'l coverage. The riccia is really beautiful and it's not hard to see why it's so popular as a ground/hardscape cover.

LF I promise I'll get a comparison shot soon.





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Looks like a Chio Pet, or however this is spelled



Ingo,

No really, looks nice

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It really does look nice. I still like the bit of bare rock sticking out. Not really like a chia pet at all, that's just grass or something, the riccia is much more interesting.
This is one held on with a hairnet right? What's your plan for removing the hairnet when the riccia is fully attached? Please do give a comparison shot to one that is tied on, it will be neat to see if there's a difference.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thanks luvmykrib. You know that LF, he has such a way with words.

Actually the comparison between hairnet and thread is in my 12g tank with java moss. This tank has only riccia held down with hairnets. The hairnet will remain as long as the rock is in there. Without it the riccia will simply float to the top since it's incapable of really attaching itself. The comparison was going to be by time not by how it was held down.

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I got them mistaken, so a comparison of attachment will be showing up in the other thread then? Using a hairnet to hold the riccia on is a stroke of genius, I never would have thought of it...then again I don't have hairnets on hand...or wear them...ever!
A growth comparison to what exactly, from when it was planted to now? Do you have some in another tank to also compare it to? That would be neat, but if not it will still be interesting to see how much it has grown.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Update:

1. Beachfront completely established with rock.
2. Added a bigger piece of wood to left to match the other two pieces.
3. Stargrass on the right has taken off and is growing in front and behind the center DW. Stargrass on left is also growing in front of DW.
4. The diandra is pretty much gone. I left it to fend for itself behind the stargrass on the right.
5. Cut one stalk of E.stellromatica to bring the grouping closer to midground. I would like to wrap another plant behind it if possible.


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Tetratech,

Looking very nice.

You said you trimmed the Star Grass but it seems (with the other plants in the group) to still reach the surface. Is it growing that fast?

If I would have a say (which I don't ) then I would recommend to let the Star Grass group on the right grow only half heigh.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF,

Yes, it growing extremely fast and I do plan on "blinking some more" in fact I'll probably end up cutting both stands of stargrass lower than the rotala and stellaromatic.



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tetratech,

diandra...is that....http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/SAP/DD

I kind of like the way that plant looks. Why types of problem are you having with it because I have been eyeing it for sometime now.

Edit:I was really thinking of this stuff......sorry!
http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/SAP/ENAR

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingdsc,
I had the diandra I never had the egeris. Both seem to be fine-leaved. The diandra kept getting black stem sections 2/3 the way down. It seems like my lite wasn't strong enough for it.

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Wings,

The Najas is much smaller in diameter than the Diandra. Also, it is by far not as pretty, and it will melt when one is using Excel (to kill algae, for example).

But on the upside it needs less light than the Diandra.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just did some testing as far as kh and ph. Lately my kh has been 2, usually 3. PH is anywhere between 6.2 and 6.4

Assuming the kh kit is sound (pretty old - more than 1 year) my co2 ppm is anywhere between 24 and 38. That's a pretty big range. I think this is a classic example of why you have to watch the fish and plants. Many might interpret their ph as closer to the 6.2 and swear their co2 is in the 30s, but it is actually in the 20s.

I'm still getting bba and if Tom Barr is correct my co2 is probably closer to the 20s. Plants are growing and pearling so things are good I just want to beat back the bba without going broke using excel.



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Excel is just cost too much but it works so well. What is a guy to do? I have actualy stoped using it in my 40 gal but I have upped my DIY Co2 to two brews of mix. Things are growing really well. I have plants that are growing to the top of the tank. Its way cool.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingdsc,
Glad to hear the plants are doing so well. I guess I'll have to up my bubble count to raging rapid.

Anyway here's a comparison pic of one of my riccia covered stones. The angle is slightly different, but you could definitely see the flatness under the hairnet and then 9 days later.



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Here's a pic of it against a backdrop of wisteria and some blyxa to the right. I think it constrast very nicely with the petrified wood. What do you think? I'd really like to know

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Looking nice and growing well

The only thing that I can say that would not be perfect (if I had to ) is that it is too small to make an impact.

We need more of this stuff, either on larger stones or maybe on growing matts .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks,

I do plan on greening up the center area with more of this stuff. As I mentioned I barely had enough to cover the two rocks. Now that I have the border of rocks I will be added more rock to the inside in selected areas and they will be covered with riccia. Maybe I'll do a different chia sculputure of each one in your honor.

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More would be better but it does look really nice. I am thinking of getting some Pellia moss. I like the looks of the stuff.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Maybe I'll do a different chia sculputure of each one in your honor

Yeah

How about if you start with a Little Fish

I am glad that you are planning on expanding the Riccia group, it could be very very pretty (or a mess, but as long as it is not free in the tank you can easily dispose of it).

Ingo

EDIT: NEXT ONE IS 1000 - Leave it for tetra

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Yes, it's the 1,000 post to my log that was started about 4 months ago. Biggest conclusion is "You can't be all things to all inhabitants. If you constantly try to fine-tune parameters, etc there is always a conter reaction. You most pick your flora and fauna wisely if you don't want to .

Here's a pic from today. Trimming time is overdue and has already cost my a blyxa that was unfortunately under the canopy of the overgrown stargrass and rotala. Also the pencilfish are pulling at the blyxa and riccia like spagetti. They are starting to bother me. But all this is a foregone conculusion.

LF, Thanks for saving me the 1,000th

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You are welcome tetratech,

I think 1000 is a very special number, the next one of that kind would be 1 million, and if it takes us 4 month for 1000 then it would be 4000 months, or 333.33 years to 1 million. I don't think you and I will be around for that one .

Anyway, from your statement I take it that Blyxa needs to be in full light. Good to know, as this means that the plant would have a hard time being the borderplant between tall and short plants as rather often than not the tall plants will create some shadow.

And yeah, trimming is overdue

Congrats to the 1,000

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hopefully by replying I can freaking veiw the last 2 pages of your log! Whats up with this? Some kind of glitch from the new fish profiles look?

saltnewbie,

Right on the money. You are seeing everything there is the see. There are just extra pages beeing added here and there on some of the threads.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Interesting side note I recently introduced 6 add'l cardinals tetras to my existing school of 9. This is the first group I have added since my UV has been running. All other groups that I have introduced prior to my UV resulted in some inevitably getting an infection within a few days and dying. So far after about a week all 6 are fine and I see no signs of any infection. Is the UV the answer for fish that are sensitive to pathogens and other diseases. It's only one group of six, so I'll probably purchase anothe group shortly and see if I have the same success. And yes LF, my rummys do school with my cardinals at times

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Glad to hear you're having success with the new cardinals! I was wondering how they would do, since you hypothesized earlier that going from UV holding tanks to your non-UV tank may have been shocking their immune systems. As you've been saying, keeping the tank clean is one thing, keeping the fish infectionf ree is an added bonus. You're on your way to that big school

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks nowher UV good, GW bad

Speaking of big schools, looks like my rams are getting the honeymoon suite ready. Colors are out of control, pushing gravel around. What do you think if I just use a net breeder in the tank and feed BBS. Think any will survive.

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I'm not familiar with how a net breeder works

The important thing is getting them away from those hungry cardinals and pencils. As long as you get any fry to their safe house, whatever that might be, mix them with some java moss for them to peck through and feed them the BBS they should be OK.

Another option, if you want to help the fry survive, is maybe putting a clumo of java moss right next to their rock in the back. This way they'll have a hiding place to run to to keep away from the pencils til they grow a little larger. They should be able to feed themselves with little bits of whatever in the moss/ on nearby plants.

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I'm not familiar with how a net breeder works

I'm just referring to those little rectangle nets that people hang in their tank. It's about 8" wide. It would set in the 72g and I could siphon some free swimmers right into it.

The javamoss is a good idea in the back. I guess the wisteria isn't dense enough and the pencils go thru it.



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You know me well tetratech, the rummie in the school was the first thing I noticed

A netbreeder might be worth a try, just make sure it doesn't hang in full current or a stale area. Also, it shouldn't be in direct light.

Glad to hear the Cardinals are doing well.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF,
As you know I have a million and one uses for wisteria, so if I get the net breeder I will fill it with wisteria clipppings to block light, etc.

When I take pics of my tank it look's empty but there's actually 45 inhabiants in the tank.



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45 fish in your tank. That is really wild being you never see any thing in your pictures. How do you do that??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

yeah, post some livestock pictures

1.) so we can get an idea of what fish are included in the 45

2.) to fill up this log so something actually appears on pgs 40-41

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Back in the saddle!

I don't think I'll ever catch up to the last page they keep reproducing like LF's espei. I'll have to do that but the flauna list is as follows:

15 Cardinals
9 Otos
8 Pencils
4 Rummys
2 Corys
2 Bolivan Rams
5 Shrimp

45 Total





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All pretty small fish. I don't think I could get a shot of my tank with out a fish in it. Most of my fish are bigger than yours though. Pictures would be cool as Nowher said.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

The riccia grows real fast. You'll be able to give it a haircut soon and use the trimmings to make new rocks.

The fish will treat it like spaghetti, I once made a post with a series of pics of all the different species of fish I had treating the Riccia like it was an all you can eat buffet. Usually the stuff grows faster then the fish can damage it.

The Blyxa definately can't take any shading. I've had prblems with mine where the sags around it have gone wild and are shading choking it out.

It's the monsoon season here and it's almost like the plants can sense it, everything is gone wild growth wise and I can't keep up with the trimming. Even with trying to do some work on the tank every evening I have some plants growing out the top of the tank.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

bensaf,

Thats a very interesting thought. I wonder if the out side stuff plays a role with our little worlds...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I wonder if the out side stuff plays a role with our little worlds...

Well certainly the temperature has dropped. This is the coldest I've ever been in this country. It a wintry chilly 25oC 5 years in this country and I've never even owned a jacket , I bought one a couple of weeks ago. Mainly for wearing indoors, most places still have their AC set high, so it's a bit chilly in most indoor places. Going to the cinema is like watching a movie in a fridge.

Most plants are seasonal, usually aquatic's slow down in the hot summer months. Maybe the temp drop as kicked them up a gear or maybe it's the glass diffuser working do well. But everythings getting bigger, growing faster. A sword I've had for almost a year and a half has suddenly decided the tanks too small for him and is producing leaves over 2 feet in lenght and about 3" wide Java Ferns think they're Hygros

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Sounds like you are having fun then. Good luck with all that!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

When I take pics of my tank it look's empty but there's actually 45 inhabiants in the tank

Tell me all about it. As you know I have 100 in my tank and in full tank shots you can barely see 5.

Yeah Bensaf, makes sense with the growth of the plants based on climate changes. The same applies to fish, as much as I know. Some species are getting in the mood when there is a storm approaching. I would explain both with a change in conductivity (or something like that, I am not a weather guy) of the air. This sends a message to all living things that it is time for action.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Blyxa definately can't take any shading

Oh great now he tells me. Is there a moderator in the house?

A sword I've had for almost a year and a half has suddenly decided the tanks too small for him and is producing leaves over 2 feet in lenght and about 3" wide

Do you expect anything less in your Amano Paradise Utopia Setup

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25 C is chilly? You need a jacket? It is just about perfect from where I see it. We haven't dropped down to -30 C yet this year, it has been an unnaturally warm winter, my heaters haven't had to work nearly as hard as they did last year. My house temp is set at 19 C, or 20C when I feel cold, to save on heating costs, yet the tanks are all set at 26-28C usually. Must be nice to live in such a tropical area. When the temp drops here I'll be asking for any pictures of sunny places, palm trees that sort of thing. I'll tape them up on the tanks so the fish think it's really nice here and won't wonder why the people are all bundled up!

Oops, when I posted this I didn't realize there had been more pages added to it. Everytime I go to the last 2 pages there's nothing there!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Oh great now he tells me. Is there a moderator in the house?

Well you didn't have it in a shady spot. I'm just beginning to realise that light is it's only real finicky thing. It's growing terribly slowly for me. Lots of side shoots but they take forever to do anything. I suspect it's because the tank is relatively deep (almost 24" and they are struggling for light. I'd say the same light in a shallower tank and they'd be much happier.

Well, the "Paradise" is badly in need of some heavy work. I haven't had time for much more then trimming. Chain sword/sags need to ripped up and thinned out. Anubias need to be adjusted slightly, moss needs trimming and sculpting badly etc etc, it's a very thick jungly paradise at the moment.
luv,
It's just relative. I've grown used to >30o heat and high humidity almost the whole year round. 25o , storms and heavy rain that we are having makes it seem wintry here when actually it's more like a typical Irish summer day. I lived in Russia for a couple of years, it'd get down to -20 there so I've been thru all the extremes.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Uncle bensaf,

What is up with living all over the world?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

What is up with living all over the world?

Who knew so many countries had extradition treaties !

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

bensaf, you must have done some pretty dodgy things to get thrown out of russia of all places...


No offense meant to our russian friends...

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Back in the saddle!

Ouch!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

bensaf, you must have done some pretty dodgy things to get thrown out of russia of all places...

Well if I'd known at the time she was Vladimir Putin's daughter ............

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

It is getting deep in here. (where did I leave my chest wadders?)

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Bensaf, you're a strapping young lad, I'm sure I'd want you on my side in a donnybrook... but if you messed around with Putin's daughter, well, you wouldn't be here talking on FP - you'd be up in that big Amano Paradise in the sky!

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Back in the saddle!

I'd want you on my side in a donnybrook...

Donnybrook Now there's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time. Do you know where it comes from ? Donnybrook is a district on the southside of Dublin close to where I was born and raised. There's was a bit trouble there way back, bit of a spat between some rebs and the British army. The Dublin boys were armed with pretty much just their fists and anything else they could grab at the time. Hence the phrase.

Sorry I'm bringing this thread way off track.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.