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luvmykrib,

If you could convince his wife he for sure would .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, I'll probably start using the 5. A little concerned it might be two small for two bolivians. I'll have to look into that alittle more

Spare rocks, spare DW pieces, lot of clippings. No susbstrate necessary. bare bones. or use one of those coconut caves. like i said, they're proven breeders, i can't imagine aggression between them. if anything it may be post-breeding, when one wants to to guard the eggs... in which case you just move the other back to the big tank.

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Back in the saddle!

If you could convince his wife he for sure would

That pretty much says it all.

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tetratech,

We are sitting in the same boat

All I wanted for Xmas was a small 55G African Cichlid setup

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

We are sitting in the same boat

Yes we are. Sorry you didn't get the African Setup. I guess you'll have to keep working on it.

I think I might have scored some points by taking the two little kids away on a ski trip without the mrs. Little did I know how much work it was getting the two little ones in and out of their ski gear ever day, etc. Well at least we drank enough dark beer to make even Bensaf proud.

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Well at least we drank enough dark beer to make even Bensaf proud

You and the little ones?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You and the little ones

Yeah Bensaf pushes diffusers and I push black & tans.
I should have been more detailed. My friend went with his "little ones" as well.

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You guys are nuts... not that I am not being I beleive it takes one to know one... Sorry to hear about your fry. Who knows they might make it. I have a random Convict fry still hanging out in my 55G.

A 10G is really no threat. So small.. so little time and effort. Tell the wife you can make money doing it!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I have a random Convict fry still hanging out in my 55G.

What else is in the tank?

See if I had a basement maybe, but when I setup a tank it's gotta go in the kitchen, den, bedroom. I actually have 5 setups around the house

72g - Kitchen
12g - Bedroom
10g - Kid's room (newt/fish setup)
5g - Den (setup for possible ram fry)
.5g - Kid's room (Betta tank)

Yes and every tank has some wisteria in it.

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Lets see...

I have my rescued oscar...they had the poor guy in a 20G hex for a year and a half. M + F Con, Rainbow shark, 3 gaint danios, two B. Rainbows and a pleco.... I think thats it..

Ahh I see your problem... buy a new house...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

You could sell some of the wisteria to pay for the new tank and sell the ram babies to support your fish habit.

It would be very profitable to make that wisteria available to those of us up North who cannot find any and have to make do with water sprite, a very poor substitute for wisteria.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Yeah Bensaf pushes diffusers and I push black & tans.

By that comment I take it you're a Guinness man. My estimation, which was already high, has increased ten fold.

Liquid paradise. There's eatin' and drinkin' in it.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

By that comment I take it you're a Guinness man

Yes I am and then some.

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Thought this was a good pic showing my wisteria as a ground cover. This pic is taking thru the right side of the tank. The lower part is the wisteria pressed up against the glass.




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Good shot of my E (cough) Stellata Group. The underside does have purple coloring but the top is mostly green. I don't think there's enough FE in Flourish, been dosing 15ml every other day. I will be trying a dedicated FE fert soon. Either way nice plant.




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Pretty much full tank shot showing the reworked center. Everything trimmed. The E.Stellata has been brought forward and right behind the main rock with the rotala behind it. The stargrass now cascades over the left dw and rock.



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Tetratech,

Wow your tank is looking great! My wisteria doesn't even come close but its on its way!! Look out for when i get my real Co2!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings,
I'm sure your wisteria will look just as good once you get the co2 going. Here's a full pic from the front.



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I don't think there's enough FE in Flourish, been dosing 15ml every other day.

No, there isn't. Did you see this thread tetra? Turns out there's a lot less iron in Flourish than the online calculators (FertFriend, APC Fertilator, etc.) lead us to believe (only 10%). So 15mL of Flourish in your tank only gives you less than 0.02ppm of Iron (instead of 0.2ppm). 5mL of Flourish Iron gives you about 0.2ppm.

I just started dosing Flourish Iron in combination with Flourish last week (after reading the APC thread) and the difference in the red plants after just a couple of treatments was very noticeable.

-P

So 15mL of Flourish in your tank only gives you less than 0.02ppm of Iron (instead of 0.2ppm). 5mL of Flourish Iron gives you about 0.2ppm.

'


Thanks Upikabu,
I actually did see that thread and never read it. I would say that is quite a difference. All this time I was trusting the fertilator and I was only getting a 10th of what I thought I was getting.

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That actually explains why dosing Flourish Fe every three days my plants are still showing signs of deficiency! I figured because I have very low-light and no CO2 I would not need to dose as much or as often as if the light were higher and had CO2. I don't get the cloudiness though unless I dose more. But I don't have to dose a lot more to get the cloudiness, this is probably my high KH and pH.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Better shot of the tank this morning.



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Looks beautiful and very natural tetratech

But, just like you, I have a hard time with giving unconditional compliments

It seems the Blyxa is not growing in. Is that because it gets shaded by the beautiful group behind it?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Riccia rocks looks great, that wisteria is amazing, it sur elikes your tank man. Good chatter above pointing out the iron situation with flourish, that's quite helpful to a lot of people.

how are the new cardinals doing, any losses?

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks guys

Blyxa:
As bensaf noted is very light sensitive and I keep moving them toward the front because they do get shaded by the main group. Which I hate moving them because they are very sensitive. Also because of their so growth they are getting some bba on some of the leaves. I also don't know if the excel treatment is affecting their delicate leaves as well. To complicate matters further the bowfront where they are located is not the brightest spot in the tank.
I'm actually thinking about putting an additional light on the front of glass canopy to see if it has a better impact on any foreground plants there.

Flourish:
Yep, I'm definitely gonna look for a dedicated fe fert, any suggestions besides flourish.

Cardinals:
Beleive it or not I haven't lost one since I got the UV. I added 6 a few weeks ago all are good and I'm going to add another 6 this weekend which will give me a total of 21 on my way to 35 to 40.



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tetratech,

I can't wait for you to have a big school of cardinals. It will look super sweet to the max! Are you going to cut down on any of the other fish?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetra - great looking tank

question - how do you keep the wisteria short? and so it doesn't look cut?

mine is about 7-8inches tall and growing quickly - i want it to bush out not up?

do i just cut it?

cheers Karl

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

First off make sure you have wisteria not water spirit. Just cut it and replant the top. The old bottem will start regrowing again. This is the tetratech method btw. I use it and it works!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

simple as that - cheers

i'll do some trimming tommorrow, while doing water change.

Cheers

Karl.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

Thanks Shekoi,

What wingdsc said is true, I just keep cutting and replanting, but when you replant don't plant it straight up, plant it on an angle like 30 to 40 degrees this way more of the stem comes in contact with the gravel and will root along the stem keeping more of it down.

Also if the plant is growing fast, it only looks cut for a day or so because the new leaves are coming out so fast. When you cut and replant eventually the cut stems getting hidden by the leaves.






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SheKoi,

tetratech forgot to mention that he has a special whip to get the wisteria in just the right shape

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

always with the whipi perfer the red hot poker myself - probably not much use in water

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

tetratech forgot to mention that he has a special whip to get the wisteria in just the right shape

O Ya, forgot the whip. I think they sell them on eBay.



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Brand? Style? I want to be sure to get the right one!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Brand? Style? I want to be sure to get the right one!

Tetratech of course. Not to be confused with that company that puts out the Tetratec line of aquatic products.

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i couldn't find them!
http://search.ebay.co.uk/tetratec_W0QQfromZR40QQpqryZtetratech
sure they're on ebay - should look american site

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

looks fantastic

how tall is that at the front?

how often do you have to trim it?

/:'

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

It probably ranges from 2 to 4inches, but if you look at my tank from the front. The area in the pic around the driftwood is going up a hill so it looks taller than then it really is. My tank slopes up to the main grouping on each side so the wisteria looks like it's going up a hill.

The wisteria seems to be very no3 hungry. So if all the othe things are in place (light, ferts, co2) it will grow very fast. I trim different pieces every week to keep it looking like a smooth hill.

BTW - That search on ebay


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Send some trimmings my way! I really cannot find any locally, I ask and I get water sprite.

It looks really good though, I could just sit and stare at the wisteria.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

tetratech,

That is a very nice shot of the side of your tank. I like how the Wisteria creates a natural slope upwards towards your plant mountain.

And did something special happen in front of your tank while you took the picture? All fish seem to look out into that direction (almost all).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And did something special happen in front of your tank while you took the picture

I was doing my daily tetra dance to keep the tank in balance. Don't most of you do a dance in front of your tanks to keep the gods happy and balance your tanks

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Count me amongst the apostates, tetra. During the green water plague my prayers for balance and clear water were answered with only more green water.

All hail the mighty UV idol! /:'

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Back in the saddle!

Don't most of you do a dance in front of your tanks to keep the gods happy and balance your tanks

My fish usually hide in the darkest corners of the tank when I start to dance

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Interesting,

My kh this morning was 2, it's usually 3. Which means if my ph is 6.2 than my co2ppm is 24 and not 37 at same page but a kh of 3.

This might be part of my bba problem.
I guess I'm going to start adding baking soda during WC.



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This might be part of my bba problem

I guess you assume this relationship because of the lower CO2, right?

Your lowered KH is a reminder to all of us that tab water conditions change, sometimes very rapidly

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I guess you assume this relationship because of the lower CO2, right

Yeah, Tom Barr seems to repeat this over and over again like religion. I have to assume he knows his stuff.

The only other wildcard is light. I was playing around with my light and tilted it toward the front. When I did this the front got much brighter making me realize even more the dark front the bow creates. It might simply be the reduced light is slowing growth and letting the BBA get hold.



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O.K. Here's the tank with the grouping of Rotala Wallachi I added today:





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Here's a closer shot of the Rotala W.

It definitely adds more color, but does it take away from the main grouping. I plan on keeping it about the height it is now, so the slope up to the middle remains.



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As you could see from this depiction:



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tetratech,

Looking nice

It is going to be interesting to see what the group of Rotala wallichii will do. Sounds like it will not take too long until you have to trim it already.

Tropica's description of it sounds very promising.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Are you thinking of adding a second light? What type of light are you running now?

In my tank I just took off my glass lids because the hing was blocking too much light...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yeah I know another stem plant. I must be crazy.

Here's a pic of my Acer palmatum dissectum (Japanese Crimzon Queen Maple. Might give me an idea for a future scape.

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Are you thinking of adding a second light? What type of light are you running now?

I'm running 192 watts (2.7wpg), but because of the bowfront the light intensity is weak toward the front, because the light sets on the back piece of glass behind the hinge.

How is your light suspended that you removed the glass cover?

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tetratech - Nice driftwood Chop it down

Wings - May I say CONDENSATION?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have a Coralife 130W so I have the legs on that sucker!

Maybe stick a small t5 set up on the front of your tank?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech - Nice driftwood Chop it down

My wife would surely have my head
Actually that tree is growing thru a 4 by 4 opening in my deck that of course is covered by the snow.



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Wings - Once again (in case you haven't seen my last entry on the previous page), may I say CONDENSATION? You are going to wreck the Coralife fixture. If I am not mistaken that Coralife explicitly states to use the fixture only with a glass top.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey tetra, keepin gthe new rotala that height may become a pain, especially if it doesn't take too kindly to trimmings (i.e. wants replants all the time) I can see it growing a few inches higher, to the height of the DW, without taking away from the slope effect

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Back in the saddle!

Maybe stick a small t5 set up on the front of your tank

I might do that, only problem is the inconvienence. Everytime I open the top I'll have to remove ther reflector.

I'll tell ya I might eventually decide to do a MH light suspended from the ceiling. The wife will love it in here kitchen

Nowher, I'll have to see how the Rotala W. does. Curious to see if it will keep it's pink color. It really looks alot like a pink Mayaca

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LF,

Thanks for the heads up with the glass lids...Going to have to do some thinking..Maybe I will just have some glass cut so I dont have the hing in the way.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

When your snowbound, not much to do but take some pics.

Here's some pics from above. First E.Stellata (or so I'm told) This plant was the best surprise so far from my online plant order. It has grown very well, both bottoms and replanted tops. Some have developed multiple leaders as you can see from the stalk on the right.



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Next is the R. Wallachi from above. Nice plant for a LFS anyway. I'm cautiously optimistic.



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Here's a closeup shot of the main area of the tank. The rotala r. is alittle unruly but you could see the mound shape of the layout. My only problem right now is the foreground. I believe the blyxa and other foreground plants aren't getting enough light because of the bowfront. It's either that or co2 too low, so I've started added baking soda to bring the kh up a bit, but my gut know is telling me it's light related and slow growth is allowing the bba to take hold. Although if I have bba there has to be a cause which brings me back to the co2 level. So we'll see.






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Hi,
With the Rotala ind, turning pink, I would probably
suspect something other than the lighting. The Rotala
does not normally turn pink in less than favorable
lighting.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank,
Actually the lighting on the rotala I. and other plants I think is good, my problem is the light reaching the blyxa and other foreground plants in front of that big rock. It seems to be a dark area with the the current lighting setup because of the bowfront.

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Nice close-ups of the plants, tetratech

The Stellata looks very nice and full, should it change color soon?

And what are you doing up at this time of the day?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Stellata looks very nice and full, should it change color soon

I really need to find a concentrated FE fert. I guess I'll try Flourish Iron for now.

Couldn't sleep last nite, worry about my blyxa and the 2 cherry shrimps I haven't seen since I dumped them in what a week ago.



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worry about my blyxa and the 2 cherry shrimps I haven't seen since I dumped them in what a week ago.

They're probably off getting ready to produce babies as cherry shrimp tend to do.



I understand about the rock shading the blyxa, but i think it's that and not so much the bow front. It's not as if the blyxa is right up the the front glass, it looks to be pretty much under where it should be getting light, it's just being shaded by the rock and the other taller stem plants.

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Back in the saddle!

I understand about the rock shading the blyxa, but i think it's that and not so much the bow front.

Yes and no I think. It's probably a combination of thinks. Remember the light is coming from above and right now when I look thru the top of the tank. The Blyxa are in the clear, but because the lighting fixtures resides on the back part of the glass canopy the only way to get to the blyxa is on an angle and partially thru the main group. My tank is 15" on the side with the bowfront pushing out another 3". Another fixture on the front of the canopy would solve the problem, but be inconvienent. The BBA also affected the hairgrass I had all the way in the front that wasn't shaded by the main group.

If the cherry shrimps are off breeding somewhere I guess between ram fry and shrimp fry I could throw out my fish food.




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Hi,
I see the more forward plants are in the shadows. I think
you are right, either move the light so the angle is
different, or add another strip.

I tried both the Ghost and Cherry Shrimp. I even bought
the iodine that they need to supplement their diets, but
like you, I seem to have only enhanced the diets of the
tank denizens (Black Skirt Tetras, and Cherry Barbs).
As expensive as the shrimp were, I'll not do it again.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank,

The cherry's I purchased are quite small so I'm not sure yet what has become of them. I have so much ground cover that I bought a few amano shrimp about 4 months ago and didn't see them for weeks and then one day they appeared and are living in that center piece of driftwood with the moss growing on it. They only leave the driftwood at nite.

I find the amano shrimp to be bigger and more resilent than the ghosts.

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tetratech,

I saw 2 cherry shrimp for sale at my LFS this weekend and couldn't believe that they were even more expensive than Amano shrimp ($6 vs. $5 a piece).

Did you have the same experience?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
I paid $3.99 each, 2 for $7.50, but they were really small. Maybe too small because I haven't seen them. I also haven't research shrimp that much. I don't thing they fight with Amanos and Ghost because I have both in my tank.
The Amanos are by far the biggest and the only ones I've seen munching on BBA and other algae. Ghosts really don't do much.



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Ghosts really don't do much

Except,

Die quickly.

They supposedly have a live span of a few months to maybe (just maybe) a year.

That's what I have heard,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

They supposedly have a live span of a few months to maybe (just maybe) a year

I did not know that

Actually this sounds pretty stupid but I bought 2 Amano shrimps and was so happy with them I went back and bought 3 more when I got home I realized they were ghost shrimps. I have seen 2 as of last week and I bought a few months ago so I guess they won't be around too much longer. The shrimps have totally different behavior. The amano stay on that piece of driftwood all day and seem to defend it against any fish that swim nearby the ghosts just run across the front of the tank all day. Maybe they die of exhaustion in a few months. And the cherry's either hide or became lunch. They were small maybe the fish thought they were "brine" shrimp instead.

Moral of the story is always watch what the LFS employee is doing because you might be surprised when you get home. A couple of times I got a few neons in with my cardinals.

Any LFS FP people, please don't take offense. Just like anything else, some LFS employees know their stuff other ones are just "there"



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And sometimes things just happen the wrong way...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Did alittle trimming to the E.Stellata and the rotala r. to help reduce shade on the blyxa. For the first time I'm deciding whether I should replace my main rock to help with the lighting situation on the foreground.

What do you think. Keep it or change it to something shorter and maybe wider.



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Hi,
Actually, I think I like it where it is.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I agree with Frank, it looks great where it is and the way it is. I also like the new trimmed look, the blyxa looks like it's getting a bit more light. You may wind up pulling the one closest to the rock a bit more forward if it's not getting enough light where it is though. It's your tank though so do what YOU like and what you think it NEEDS.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

tetratech,

That is a tough one.

On one hand I think the taller rock keeps the focus group nicely together and removing it can conclude in the group flowing into the rest of the plants and as such lose its destinction.

On the other hand, that flow might look very good as it connects all elements of the tank.

If you don't try it you will never know. So, you may want to think about the effort it takes to change it (and maybe change it back later), and if you conclude that it is not too much hassle I would say go for it

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for all the comments. The rock is probably overdue for a cleaning so I might try to take it out and give it scrubbing and I could play around with some other rocks. I guess what I'm afraid of is a chain reaction and I'll end up adjusting different things to compensate.

LF, I see what your saying about the flow and that's where the above might come into play.

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Tetra,

Some change can be a good thing. I think you're right on track with taking it out to clean it and seeing what it looks like.

To me it seems like you're moving in the direction of adding more and more different types of plants, and with the wisteria taking up the real estate it does, and serving a purpose taking up that real estate, that's left you with squeezing all these different types of plants behind this one large rock, or around it. Something smaller will give you more room to play with different plant types and to scape the plants a bit more.

I guess what I'm afraid of is a chain reaction and I'll end up adjusting different things to compensate.

Isn't that the whole point?

But seriously, the wisteria is taking up so much space and you're not about to rip it all up, and you need not worry about lack of a hardscape because you still have plenty of it. I guess I'm saying, I don't think pulling it up won't ruin the shape and flow of your scape

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Back in the saddle!

To me it seems like you're moving in the direction of adding more and more different types of plants, and with the wisteria taking up the real estate it does, and serving a purpose taking up that real estate, that's left you with squeezing all these different types of plants behind this one large rock, or around it.

Nowher, I'm going to give you another and answer.
I'm trying to experiment with more variety and your right most of gets squeezed into the middle, but if you look where I put the rotala w. I basically cut a whole right in the middle of my wisteria slope and put it there away from the main group.

My other variable is that this tank is in my kitchen and it has to look good most of the time, so I can't experiment too much. LF is lucky his tank is in the basement and he can probably get away with more. The other day my wife looked at my tank and said "Those flowers (pointing to the top of the E.Stellata) are really pretty" My response "Aren't They" The fact that she thinks those are flowers allows me to score points on my quest for more tanks (with flowers of course)

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but if you look where I put the rotala w. I basically cut a whole right in the middle of my wisteria slope and put it there away from the main group.

I know, and it came as a shock to myself and I'm sure to all other followers of Tetra's bowfront log My only oint was - which I'm pretty sure you got - that clearing the big rock out allows you more room to experiment with different plants without compramising the overall flow of the tank. You even mentioned a few posts ago that the rotala w. will probably have to be trimmed often to keep it from disrupting the flow created by the sloping wisteria. Redoing the hardscape in the center gives you a little more freedom, IMO.

The other day my wife looked at my tank and said "Those flowers (pointing to the top of the E.Stellata) ( are really pretty" My response "Aren't They" The fact that she thinks those are flowers allows me to score points on my quest for more tanks (with flowers of course)

What can I say? You the man!




EDIT: and welcome back to premie land, BTW

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Back in the saddle!

LF is lucky his tank is in the basement and he can probably get away with more

Hey, my wife looks at my tank too, about once a week

I didn't know that your kitchen is your showroom where hundreds of people march through to view the exhibited tank

Your wife knows that things take a while to look good, just look at food in the makings - not the prettiest display. I wonder if having your tank not at 100% display level would encourage your wife to give you more input on what could be improved. Then you have to make sure she stays busy thinking about it and before you know it she wants to have a tank on her own, to show you how it is done (wishful thinking on my part - doesn't work here either ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I didn't know that your kitchen is your showroom where hundreds of people march through to view the exhibited tank

Lots of foot traffic with three kids and friends.
Hey, my wife looks at my tank too, about once a week

I wonder if having your tank not at 100% display level would encourage your wife to give you more input on what could be improved.

Then you have to make sure she stays busy thinking about it and before you know it she wants to have a tank on her own, to show you how it is done.
pause, catch breath



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And look at all these Gold Stars



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And look at all these Gold Stars

What can I say

I added 5 more cardinals to my tank and I now have a total of 20. Another 100 I'll catch up to LF's major school.

Anyone know the difference between a school of fish and a shoal?

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If you look them up in a dictionary they mean the same thing. A school is no different than a flock, no different than a swarm, no different than a shoal. We just use different words to mean the same thing when describing different animals. You dont say a flock of tetras, you don't say a swarm of watter buffalo, and you don't say a school of birds.

Now, maybe there's some specific difference when referring to fish but in my mind if there is it can't be a good one. prove me wrong. Fish that like to be with eachother school, or shoal, whatever. Fish that don't, don't. I've seen people say on other threads, shoaling means the fish stay loosley together, schooling is when they stay tight; bunk! Bunk I say! If they stay tight together, it's a tight school, if not it's a loose school. Just my opinion of course, but you won't catch me saying a school is all that different than a shoal, no matter what.

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Back in the saddle!

From my deep contacts within the intellectual fish keeping communities:

Schoolers form a tight streaming flow across a tank, and shoalers group together, but don't follow a pattern.

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A silly distinction to make, IMO. I can make my harlies form a "tight streaming flow across the tank" by sticking my hand in there and waving it around. Other times they're at rest and feel safe, they just drift about in a loose group. Are they schoolers or shoalers? Same thing with most fish we call schooling fish. Neons, cardinals, rasboras - "keep in a school of 5-6" the story goes, "because they're schooling fish". Fine, but when a group of these fish are at ease they dont flow from one side to another, they just hover. Sometimes they try to school with their reflections in the glass, especially when introduced to a new environment. The more friends and the closer they are to eachother, the better. Tight schooling formations are a defensive thing, when they feel safe they split up a bit, it makes sense.

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Back in the saddle!

The only time my Espei school these days is when I move fast to one end of the tank. Then all shoot over to the other end and eventually half of them return while the rest stays over there for a while.

the rest of the day they are spread out (if that is even possible with 100 of them in there), the leading males fight over who is the boss, and the rest just "hangs" .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is it me or do fish school or shoal more in the evening.



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See,

I feed mine only in the evening and as soon as I approach the tank at that time of the day at least 80% of all fish are in the front left corner of the tank within a second.

NowherMan6, First Gold Star hm?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

From Univ of Montana Study:

Shoals vs. Schools

Shoal: a group of fishes that remains together for SOCIAL reasons

School: a polarized, synchronized shoal

In this definition a school is a shoal of fish when they form that tight pattern based on predators, stress, etc.

Makes senses

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In this definition a school is a shoal of fish when they form that tight pattern based on predators, stress, etc.

Ok, I can buy that but I still don't think it;s much of a difference, especially for the intents and purposes of our little tanks.

NowherMan6, First Gold Star hm?

Well look at that, I guess so Don't worry, I'll lose it next time I take the quiz

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Back in the saddle!

Schoolers form a tight streaming flow across a tank, and shoalers group together, but don't follow a pattern

That univ defintions does blend with the original one, but I think the problem with the above statement it almost implys that we are talking behavior by species.

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Switching subjects, when I picked up my cardinals the other day I saw a 4" bamboo shrimp. At first I was like "no way I'm putting that in my tank", but now I am considering it. From what I understand they are filter feeders and just sift water for food basically. Probably good for GW

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Probably bad for your tank, or any tank that is

They will slowly starve to death as there is not enough food in the water column to keep them happy.

I think to remember that I read that somewhere

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

From what I understand they are filter feeders and just sift water for food basically. Probably good for GW

If a 4" shrimp clears up a 72 gallon tank full of green water I'll eat my hat.

Definetely not my cup of tea, a shrimp that large should be served chilled, with a splash of lemon.

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Back in the saddle!

They will slowly starve to death as there is not enough food in the water column to keep them happy

Well I would probably have to supplement with some food. But you bring up an interesting poing. Would the uv destroy some of it's food source.

Definetely not my cup of tea, a shrimp that large should be served chilled, with a splash of lemon

And I was going to have a tea party and invite you guys over. Nowhere your not going near my tank.

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Tea party? tetratech... I thought you were a liquid bread kind of guy!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Tea party? tetratech... I thought you were a liquid bread kind of guy!

Absolutely wings, definitely liquid bread, but nowher brought up something about tea. I think tea and gouramis go well together - very graceful

BTW - Might be all the beer I've been drinking, but I think I see an improvement in my Blyxa. I've reduced height of E.Stellata overhanging the main rock and I've tilted my light toward the front of the tank slightly using rubber feet at the front the fixture.

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As most of you know, I'm going to try my aquascaping skills in an east african biotope. I think part of the reason for doing so is this tank. I'm actually pretty happy with it and although I will always be fine-tuning it I think for the most part I'm going to leave it alone. I will add more riccia to the front and try to have the blyxa fill in more. Here' some random current pics of different areas of the tank.



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Looking good

That "stellaromatica" is coloring up nice. Been adding some extra micros have we ?

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

That "stellaromatica" is coloring up nice. Been adding some extra micros have we ?

You could tell right. . I've been dosing about 25ml 3 week of flourish combined with flourish trace. Still probably need more FE. Do you know another focused FE source other than Flourish FE?

stellaromatica
Yeah that's what it must be, a hybrid.

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tetratech,

I like the pictures number 2 (mixed school in formation), number 6 (new plant sprouting) and the full shot at the end the best

Yeah, seems to be allsettled there, except for the frequent pruning that you still will have to perform. Sorry that I can't pull even with the African tank, I am in trouble enough as it is .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am in trouble enough as it is

Aren't we always.

Don't worry even when I setup the 46g your still crushing me with total gallons. I think I need to move somewhere warm so I could have a tank in the garage.

Yes, I will have to prune alot, but it's not as basd as it seems. 80% of the bottom is made up of wisteria which I simply cut off and top that trys to resist creeping.
The Stellaromatic (as bensaf put it) is a thick stalk, so I think I have four stalk maybe five in all. So you just cut off the bottom and replant. The E.Aromatic has done really well. I only purchased one stalk originally and both th tops and bottoms have grown well thus far. But the top is very pretty and it would take a while for the cut bottom to look as nice. The rotala w. yes another stem, but it's in a very easy area to chop down. So that leaves me my original stargrass and rotala r. The rotala I've been replanting tops right now. I just don' want to take a chance so a little work there and the stargrass I did cut out all bottoms the first few times and replant, work there as well, but lately the plant has been given me multiple leaders so I've trimmed off the top right above the smaller lower leader and it's growing beautifully.





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That looks REALLY nice tetratech, bravo.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,
Thanks for the comment

Please meet the shoal, school, herd, oh whatever
I'm really amazed. I've acclimated in another 5 cardinals a week ago all are still fine. I now have a total of 20 and have not lost one since my UV was hooked up.


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I thought this was an interesting growth pic of my E.stellata .

The two stems on the left of the white line shows replanted tops that have colored up and have one stem each. The grouping to the right is the original bottom of one of the replanted tops. It has developed multiple stems from the thick bottom stalk.



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Guys,
Did some trimming and wc today. I pulled out the two major stalks of E.Stellata you see in preceding post and I hadn't realized how big these things were because alot of the length is hidden behind the tall rock. Here's a pick of one floating in my tank after pulling it out. You could really see the purple color on the underneath of the leaves. This pic is not altered. The stalk also has numerous side shoots below the level of the rock.



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This are some fat stems tetratech

Why did you pull them out again? And did you replant them?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Why did you pull them out again? And did you replant them

I pulled them out to cut off about 4" of the bottom and I replanted the tops. They were starting to shade the foreground too much. I will probably have to trim every week but because it's basically one thick stalk it's pretty easy to do so. So it's 4 cuts and replant - done.



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Nice,

So all you need now is a powerhead that blows the current upwards from under the leaves so we can see the beautiful reddish underside more often .

So, the general question here is (and it applies to my Althernanthera as well):
Why do some plants have leaves with red undersides? What is the point of this?

Ingo

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Why do some plants have leaves with red undersides? What is the point of this

Bennnnnnnnnnnnn?

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Why do some people have blonde hair, heck if I know

In most red the plants the red color is a defense mechanism against bright light (hence the need for bright light to bring out the colors) it's some kind of change in the chlorophyll pigmentation.

Why are the red underneath, or purple, or silver - just to look pretty I guess

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

maybe its so some fish wont eat it. The bright colored warning thing...???...??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

maybe its so some fish wont eat it. The bright colored warning thing...???...??

That could very well be, wings. Color is always used in the natural world as a warning system.

Speaking of bright light. I've pretty much concluded the front bow of my tank is not getting enough. I took a cut top from my E.Stellata and planted it about a week ago in front of my tank, closer to the front than the Blyxa where it isn't shaded from the main group and it really hasn't grown. The Stellata in the main group is growing great, which is right under the light. The bowfront design with the lights on the rear piece of glass isn't really reaching to the front. I believe that was a problem with the hairgrass and bba as well.



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tetratech,

Good idea, I guess that was a valid test .

Now that you know that, what are you going to do? Are you going to place a small light there as had been mentioned before?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Well, if I want lush foreground growth I think I'll have to. My only problem is it will be very inconvienent. to have to lift the light everytime I want to get into the tank unless I could rig something that would lift the light when I open the top, but right now I can't thing that deeply about it.

I could install a hanging MH system above the tank, but that would be rather expensive.



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I'd leave the front open like it is, it looks good, and I'm a fan of a little substrate showingdon't misconstrue that if possible

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I'd leave the front open like it is, it looks good, and I'm a fan of a little substrate showing

Thanks! Yeah, I do like the way the black substrate constrast with all the green, so I'm probably not going to bother with a lawn on this tank. I've said this many times before. You can't be all things in all plants and fish in one tank, so in this tank with it's bowfront design this is what works. I would like to add a few more riccia covered stones that would add a little more green to the front but not take away the black constrast.


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Oh just read your post(same time as mine). Don't get a MH. You'll likely need two for a light spread big enough to cover both sides of your tank. This light really is much too intense for planted tanks, unless they are really deep. Plus they are expensive to buy, run, and get toasty warm.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,
Thanks for the inside info on the MH lights. I guess I'll save that for my one day 250g opentop.

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They do make legs for T5 systems. A t5 set up should give you the light that you need for just the front of the tank if you can make a 4' strip work.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings. I'll have to look into that if I decide to add the extra light.

Almost got them all. Here's a pic of 19 out of 20 cardinals (unless LF could find the 20th)



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Not having much experience with shrimp, but I think this yamato shrimp is pregnant. The belly area is loaded with something. Even so, from what I understand the fry have to be raised in water with alot of salt and the calcium level has to be raised.



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The riccia continues to do well, although I think I might have seen alittle BBA. I did actually trim this rock a couple of times, but was alittle of anxious and I couldn't get anything big enough to use on another rock. So I'll wait alittle longer next time I attempt it.



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Tetratech,

Yeah, I count 19 as well
Plus 2 Rams, 1 Oto, 5 Pencils, 1 Rummy Nose, and one fish I cannot ID (in the center, above the Rummy and parially hiding a Pencil).

I also heard that Amano shrimp are not easy to breed in the community tank. But maybe you get lucky

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I only count 18.....where is the other one??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

also heard that Amano shrimp are not easy to breed in the community tank

They need brackish/ salt water for the baby shrimp to grow. Cherry's will breed in FW and can be raised in FW as well. Now if you can only find them...

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Back in the saddle!

Yeah, that's what I thought. I fear the worst for my cherries. Haven't seen them. I don't think the Amanos would have eaten them, do you? I'm thinking maybe the Bolivians, they were very small.

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Plus 2 Rams, 1 Oto, 5 Pencils, 1 Rummy Nose, and one fish I cannot ID (in the center, above the Rummy and parially hiding a Pencil).

LF, the hidden fish appears to be a blurred image of another rummy (see the tail) Actually almost all my fish are in that shot except (8/9 otos, 2 corys, 2 rummys, 1 card and 6/8 shrimp).

The store where I got my cardinals ($3 a piece ) has a great school of emperor tetras. I was tempted to add those in, but I feel they will just get lost in the tank with other fish I have of similar size and color. This store also has like 10 species of rainbows. As you could see from the cardinals prices he's very expenisve. I think he had huge bosemani for $40.

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Wings - Count the circles, 19

Yeah, the big Rainbows cost a fortune, tetratech. Remember that I paid for my juvenile Simple Neon Dwarfs $12, adults are $20. Supply and demand, man, they get you coming ad going.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

You the man!

My dwarf rainbows are 4 for $10.... that would be $2.50 each...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Count the circles, 19

Now if you could find the 20th. . I guess he's off-camera. I have such a good streak going with the cardinals that I almost don't want to spoil it, but I will attempt to add 5 or 6 more by the weekend. That will give me a total of 25 or 26 assuming they all make it.



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Well wasn't planning this, but I was at one of my lfs today looking for some more shrimp (bought 2 more cherries and two more yamatos and this guy was all alone in the shrimp tank and I caved and said "I'll take him too" Nice little fish. It's a variety of honey gourmai, really nice color. I couldn't get the best pick, because he went into hiding, but now he's exploring the place.





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Pretty fish, tetra

There goes the SA theme!

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Back in the saddle!

Your right, this does it fishwise, but I already strayed with some plants species and of course the yamato shrimps, etc. If Amano does it, I guess it's o.k with me.

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Welcome to the graceful world of Gouramies

I've got one of these guys, your's has much better color though Nice fish very peaceful , always on the move hunting for something.

Like the new siggie too

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.