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“Don't make me go over there”

Man, you are always welcome to come over here, if I have to under-dose in order to give you a reason – so be it .

Now seriously, I will keep up my dosing schedule but this is maybe also the right time to talk about the EI dosing and water change routine. All measurements on the EI are assuming that one performs a 50% water change weekly. Well, that would mean that I empty 60G of water each time and I am not sure if I want to do that.

Tom Barr (please reply if you should read this) mentions that lesser water changes can be performed as well, and if I remember right then he talks about spacing out the dosing more rather than reducing them.

So here is a suggestion on how I could handle this (in the form of a list ):

- Assuming a 25% water change weekly
- Add macro nutrients right after water change and then every 3 days (rather than 2)
- Add micro nutrients the next day and then every 3 days (rather than 2)
- Monitor Nitrate over the following few weeks to assure it will not breach the 20ppm mark

This would make the nitrate the control substance and, because I maintain the proportions of fert ingredients, all others should be in sink as well. If the Nitrates don’t reach 20ppm then I could increase the dosage volume. If they exceed 20ppm then I could reduce the dosage volume.

In any case, adjustments to the fertilizer composition would have to be performed if particular deficiencies become visible on the plants, but that’s going to be a different question when I see it happen.

What do you think?

Ingo

PS: tetratech – thanks for the tank compliment. Your tank inspired me to re-do my 20G once the 125G is all settled, you gave me some good ideas. Actually, maybe I will re-do the 29G then as well .

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
If I could be an inspiration to you in even a small way (your 20 and 29g) I'm touched.

Getting back to your 125G. I feel the intial setup of the tank is a unique time and has to be handled in a unique way. The following is a excerpt from Amanos Nature Aquarium.

During the first week after initial set-up, plants either photosynthesis, or absorb nutrients. As the anaerobic bacteria in the filter are not fully colonized, they too will not absorb the existing nutrients in the water. Due to these factors, algae will begin to appear. By quickly absorbing the uneaten nutrients that algae will then spread wildly throughout the aquarium. How does one deal with this nuisance that systematically destroys a beautiful layout? The followings are a few tips for dealing with algae.

1. Use Cardina japonica freshwater shrimp (commonly known in Japan as : Yamato-numa Ebi)
2. Scrape off the algae on the glass surface with a plastic triangle (see next step page)
3. Draw out the algae with a suction hose
4. Change water frequently.

He actually changes water a few times during the first week, simply because the anaerobic bacteria can't absorb all extra nutrients in the water. I know you said your starting to see algae problems. They probably will abate, but I believe the above will help.



My Scapes

I am liking it! Are our tanks ever really finnished? I think mine are always a work in progress. At least thats just me. Not that I mess with them everyday or week but there are always little changes here or there.

The two sets of rocks that are standing up facing eachother look a lot like a scene from Lord of the Rings.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Firstly, where did you learn the make up of your reactor? I ask as I am familier with it, and just wondered. And, where does the CO2 tubing go? Does it go into the power head or into the top of the reactor?

I cannot tell, so I will make a suggestion. Have the CO2 go into the power head, and thus making it a venturi. This will make many more smaller more easily and quickly up take bubbles. If at this time it goes into the top of the reactor, this is no problem. Just make another small hole in the reactor, and run some tubing from there around into the intake of the power head.

HTH...

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There is always a bigger fish...

lookin good lf i like the rocks the way they are

Marc,
I believe it's the Plant Guild reactor. Basically a commercial version of a DIY reactor.Got a good reputation.


Ingo,
Not quite sure what you're getting at with the change in number of dosages. Sounds like a reduction disguised not to upset me
Tom has always maintained that the water changes are variable. This is because they are simply a safety valve to allow us to overdose and forego the test kits. Basically a re-set. Don't remember him ever suggesting a drop in nutrients allows for lower water changes.

Why the reluctance to do a 50%? I can understand if you are using a bucket to move 60 gals a week, but if it's python job there's not much difference. Doesn't bother the fish and believe me when you see the plants go nuts after a big water change you start to look forward to them.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi jsmith_2003, thanks for your comment and welcome to FP

HTH – I am not quite sure if I understand your question. Do I assume right that you think I made the Reactor myself? Well, that is not the case; this reactor was suggested to me by other members here at FP.

It can be purchased online from various sites, for example the PlantGuild (I would have provided a link to them, but their site is either defunct or highjacked) and you can see a full description of it Here.

About adding a small hose from the reactor to the powerhead, well – there is no powerhead, it is a Rio 50 pump. I wouldn’t know where there would be an inlet for a hose. Or do you mean that I just fix the hose so that its ending is right in front of the inlet slits of the pump?

Thanks,

Ingo

EDIT: Bensaf – sorry I was writing this entry while you posted so I haven’t seen it until after I posted. Anyway, you are just not letting me reduce anything . You probably know how it is, the wife is nagging that I spend too much time on the tanks instead of watching the kids etc. Yes, I have a python and I guess I will follow your suggestion (or should I called it instruction ?)

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 28-Sep-2005 10:15

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, the hose would go to the inlet of the pump. A pump is a power head, sorry for the confusion. I did not know anyone was "making" these for comercial sales. I have seen this type of reactor for a couple of years now, but they are all DYI models. I used one a few years back, but opted for the ladder instead due to hiding it was easier in the tank I had.



BTW, the HTH... stands for Hope This Helps, lol

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There is always a bigger fish...

HTH

I should really know that this is not your name as I was the one who fingered you as the person mentioned in the TFH magazine.

In my defense, it is not that easy to focus on FP when being at work. Actually it is not better at home either, except when everybody else is still sleeping.

But I have to ask again, I don't think the pump has an explicit inlet. I will inspect it tonight when I come home but I am rather sure that there are slits through which the water is drawn into the pump. How do I hook up the hose?

Ingo

EDIT: BTW, the reactor sells for about $50, in case you care (including pump).

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 28-Sep-2005 10:25

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And I must agree, the water changes are good for the plants. It is true, that if your fish load is not too large, that you will not need to do many water changes, but your plants will not flourish as much as they can, unless you add trace and minerals to the water. The water changes usually do this for you.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

Just run the tubing to the intlet. Stick it in through the cage around the inlet. Just has to be around the entrance as the CO2 can get sucked into the inlet. Not right up against it.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

Day 5

Tonight I don't have too much to write about.

I added my 12 Harlequin Rasbora Espei to the big tank and they are patrolling its entire length - back and forth and back and forth .

I took them out of my 20G which is going down quickly. BGA is returning and it had a whopping 40ppm Nitrate. Not enough plants in there for EI, I guess. But the twin bar Platy had babies as I still see one tiny bugger swimming in there.

I measured 20ppm Nitrate in the big tank, which makes me a little worried as tomorrow would be the next scheduled addition of Macros. I wonder if I should maybe make a water change before that (don't scream at me Bensaf ), so I hope one of the wise elders will help me out and give advice.

Here is a not so great picture of the Espei school partolling the tank.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

My turn to do a list:

1. You trust your test kits too much.
2. 20ppm Nitrate is not that high.
3. You can give a touch less in macro dosing today, but still dose some (say 5ppm) in case your kit is wrong.
4.They ain't Espei's.
5. They are Hengeli Rasbora. Espei's have a much bigger black wedge, overall orange tint on the body. Hengeli have a much narrower black wedge bordered by an bright irridescent orange stripe and a silverish body.
6.You have the same fish as me
7. I need a drink.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

They look like porkchop rasboras....not sure of the scientific name there, might be either of the aforementioned species. Anywho...still lookin good.

LF I think you are right when you talk about not having enough plants for EI as they assume a heavily planted tank. I also think you may need some more in the 125(as well as the completion of a cycle/stable environment) before everything measures out.

It also doesn't matter where you put the co2 tubing as long as the bubbles stay in the reactor for as long as possible.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Bensaf,

I remember your fishies from one of Your Entries in the Photo Booth forum and I remember the following discussion between Cup_Of_Livenoodles and you as to what Rasbora these are and me throwing in that I once saw them at the LFS (I actually didn’t see yours, I saw Espei as I know now) and correcting you that they are not called Hengali.

I still think that I have the Espei though. After reading the before mentioned post, I did some research as to what the visual difference between the Hengeli and the Espei is and I found this:

Hengeli is …“Very similar to Rasbora espei, the body is a bit more translucent, and Rasbora hengeli remains smaller (3.5 to 4 cm vs. 4.5 cm {I added this from another section in the same listing}). The body color in Rasbora espei is furthermore more red, and Rasbora espei has a small black line behind the head, which in dead specimens of Rasbora hengeli isn't visible.”

Here is A Link that contains the info.

I also found these two pictures that best show the difference between the Espei and the Hengeli:

Espei]http://www.rasbora.de/Zierfischgalerie/NOTespei.jpg[/link] and [link=Hengeli

Although mine look a little pale in the picture, they for sure are bright orange when fully happy (I released them into the tank about 15 min earlier). Given the picture mentioned above and your pictures in your post, I conclude that you truly have the Hengeli. Given my crappy picture but the clear view that I have at them in my tank, I have the Espei.

Ingo

Matt – The Espei is also known as the Lambchop Rasbora. I didn’t know there is also a Porkchop () or were you just very hungry when you wrote this post? With regards to EI, I guess I need more plants then.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

This is one of my Rasbora Espei

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 29-Sep-2005 03:05[/font]

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Very nice Little_Fish.
I really like the rock set up

Robby

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I know human beings and fish can co-exist peacefully.

Well, I don't see anyone addressing this ]:| (You
ll have to excuse, haven't had my java yet this morning), so here I go again.

If the tank is going thru a mini-cycle because of plants, etc. wouldn't the nitrate level be increased by this, plus your adding no3.

I just took my readings last nite and I had:

Oops, sorry that's another thread.....




My Scapes

Sorry, me wrong. Now I see a close up it's definately an Espei

I had to fill the list with something

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

LF,

Not sure if you already mentioned this in the thread but are you running all your lights 11, 12 hours? Reason I ask is that you have 386 watts and I have 196, but our tanks are the same height and width, yours is 2 feet longer (goes on forever). I'm currently running running 96 watts 12 hours and 192 watts 9 hours.

My Scapes

Good question as I have not mentioned it before.

Currently, I turn half of my lights (the 6,700K) on at 9AM and off at 8PM, that means 11 hours. With it, the CO2 is turned on as well.

The other half (5,000K) are on from 10AM to 7PM, means 9 hours.

And, last but not least, my disco lights go on at 8PM for about an hour and a half. In case you don't know what I mean, these are the 6 blue LEDs in my light strip. It looks cool although the dark green sponge in my CO2 Power Reactor shines a light green neon . I was hoping the orange in the Espei would have the same reaction, but this didn't happen .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Disco lights - cool

I have actually one of those on my light right in the middle, but it gets covered by the center support on the tank.

I think those work well for coral and other saltwater animals.

My Scapes

Not too much has happened since my last entry as I had to do a water change in my 20G because I started treating it for BGA (with Maracyn sp?).

Then I went to the LFS and got a few smaller stems of Wisteria and a long rope of Ceratophylum demersum (Hornwort). Once home I planted them quickly and then the tank lights went out, so no pictures for today as the plants and fish need their disco night to start .

Hey tetratech - these lights don’t work anywhere for anything. They are just an extra gimmick and are supposed to give the viewer the option to see night active fish by mimicking the moon light (I have 6 moons shining in my tank ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Actually,

I have a picture for tonight - I call it Disco Inferno

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Porkchop = lambchop I'm sure

That is a sweet pic LF, I'll definitely upgrade to those for my new reef tank.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

An addition to last night’s activities:

I added the third dose of macros and finally received my Seachem Equilibrium. I dosed 1/2 tsp, man this stuff is hard to dissolve .
The Vals are continuing to get thinner and thinner, I am not sure if I like the look of disintegrating plants in my tank. If this is how they look for good then I am sure I will not hang on to them for too long.

Today I will add the third load of micros and I think I will skip tomorrows macros as I will do a water change (50%, right Bensaf? ) the following day. This way macros and micros have been fed 3 times each and should be in balance. Sounds like a good plan for the long run as well – feed micros and macros from Sunday to Friday and have Saturday as a rest day.

Ingo

Edit: The Espei really enjoy their new home. They changed their patrol route from the front of the tank to the back, where they have fun fighting the current generated by the spraybar. It is fun to see how they swim through the 2 suction cups of the Power Reactor, all coming together to squeeze through that narrow area.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 30-Sep-2005 08:08

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Arent' Vals like Swords in that the original leaves usually die off when they are moved from the supplier to you. Someone stop me if I'm wrong, but if there getting thinner and going to pollute you tank why not just trim off all of the original leaves and see what new growth you get. With you conditions I bet they come right back.

My Scapes

Ok, I barely understand any of the technical talk but I think the tank looks fantastic and I have "moonlight" on my thirty five and it looks very good, I love watching the pleco doing his thing and the other fish asleep in their particular spots.

one day I will have a 125G.

GFG



Last edited by goldfishgeek at 30-Sep-2005 15:21

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

By the way Ingo, how do you like the combination of 5000K and 6700K tubes?

I actually have my 5000K on first as that colour is supposed to be better for the plants (and is also dimmer, giving a illusion -- at least to me -- of morning and evening) and then the 6700K later, and the off first.

Not that I think this is a make or break issue, just my preference...

Sorry, I haven't been feeling well so I haven't been posting much.....

Everything is looking good but I think you need to toss the kits. Really. If your plants are looking pretty good and your fish are healthy, who cares what some test kit believes your NO3 to be in ppm. Even if the kit is totally off and it's 40 ppm it's not going to hurt anything. You will, on the other hand, have problems if you don't dose enough KNO3. Forget about it.

IMO you're worrying too much. You should enjoy this part, just follow what you're supposed to be doing on autopilot, sit back and watch your plants grow. The hard stuff is done.

Sounds like a good plan for the long run as well – feed micros and macros from Sunday to Friday and have Saturday as a rest day.

Exactly the way I do it. For rest day read beer day

Don't woory about the old leaves on the vals, is there any new growth ? If there is it's fine and the new growth will come out looking better then the old. When I plant Vals I see quite a lot of the old leaves fade away but replaced by new thinner, longer, brighter green leaves.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Goldfishgeek – Thank you for the complement. And don’t worry about the “not understanding” of the technical part as we all just pretend that we understand it .

Untitled – I like the color combination of 5,000 and 6,700, I balances pretty nicely. Although I haven’t played with a 10,000 instead of the 5,000 yet. I somehow thought that the best light for plants would be around 6,500 and that’s the reason why I turn on the 6,700 on first.

Tryst – “If your plants are looking pretty good…” – Herein lies the problem. How do you define good? Is the growth of strands of algae on the Water Sprite good? How about melting crypts and vals? How about various leaves of other plants that are covered with short hairy algae? Sure, my tank is not covered in algae and I see some nice bubbling when I come how from work, but I would like to avoid a problem before it happens. Just think of this tank as being my first child – and I am the father who is extra cautious and interprets even the slightest cough as something serious .

Bensaf – Thanks for the info on the Vals, I will check for new growth AFTER I have my beer – As it is Saturday .

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 01-Oct-2005 05:54

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just think of this tank as being my first child – and I am the father who is extra cautious and interprets even the slightest cough as something serious

Ingo. But you can replace your plants if you don't like them.

-P

Ingo,

Now, there might be a dispute regarding what is the best K temp. for plants. According to the my modest research and my experience the 5000K is slightly better, but as I said it's a make or break issue. You can also start with a combination of both and turn the rest on later. Never had 10,000K so don't ask me about that.

The other thing you have to remember is that this is a new tank with new plants which didn't have the time to establish themselves yet. Once it's established I don't think you will have any problems but it will be, as Trystianity said, an auto-pilot kind of thing. A little algae doesn't bother me at all when and if I do get some, I just consider it as food for the shrimps and otos. When I do have some it is usually a very small amount and it disappears without me having to fuss about it. I think that fussing and trying to correct may cause more damage than it would help.

In any case, most of us have been there, worrying and constantly checking for the slightest possibility of something going wrong. Then we see that for the most part things are okay and we feel that we don't need to fuss so much anymore, and we also get a bit tired fussing with everything all time (or is it just me?). Again, now when I see algae I just ignore it, knowing it won't be there next week. My point is that it's okay to fuss a bit and worry, as long as it doesn't get you too mental.

I also think it's time for another full shot of the tank so we can see how things have progressed and compliment you about how it looks. So far, well done!

So, here it is – the first week summary update.

I have been away for the last 2 days and could not provide any live feed to you, but when I came back I recognized visible growth in the tank (for the first time). Besides the plant growth, I also have now every algae under the sun, BGA, hair, string, spot – you name it I got it . But I have faith and will wait and see.

Sadly, my German Rams (had not been added to the 125 yet) didn’t make it through the weekend, I have no idea why. [link=Here]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Cichlid%20Central/64566.html?7168651E-04" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] is the post about them.

Otherwise, I made my water change (yes Bensaf, 50% as instructed), added my macros, added 2tsp of Baking Soda, and 1/2tsp of Seachem Equilibrium. Given my beautiful algae, I dared to add 4 Otos to the tank that I had in my 20G. I also cut 3 stems of Ambulia from that tank and added them as well.

The following are a few pics of the tank, remember to keep in mind that I added a few plants since the first tank picture was taken a week ago.

First, the Mayaca Fluviatilis:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now, the tank a week ago when it was set up:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here today, after one week:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow your tank really looks great! About your "disco lights" where did you get the blue nocturnal lights? and how much were they? I think they would really look nice in my tank once I have it set up

Very nice tank. I enjoyed reading it's "life story"

What type of gravel is it?

Nice, starting to look nice and full! I bet that algae will be disappearing soon with all that plant growth.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Gang,

Thanks for the comments, I really appreciate it.

uniqueyat – the LEDs have been part of my lighting system, means they are build into the strip light. I think to remember that you can also buy kits with only these LEDs, just peruse the web and you will find them.

djtj – the gravel is called “Deep River” something. It is actually darker than the pictures might make you believe, most stones are dark gray or a darker brown, but some light stones can be found as well. It is natural gravel as I don’t like the artificially colored kind.

Matty – I don’t think you should retire your log, I am sure that there are more things to happen. I think I never added a comment to it as I never felt qualified to do so.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tank is definitely looking more lush.

LF,
Did you ever do the multiple no3 test?

Water Change.
When you do the 50% wc with the python, are you adding the dechlorinater to the tank as you fill it and are you dosing on the tank volume or the wc volume?
BTW - I've decided to do 2 water changes a week, until the tank stablizes.

My Scapes

LF - Nobody seems interested in it (besides you I guess) anymore. I'm glad at least one person was still interested in the log. I'm the only one who has posted on that thread since august, and I've been spending more time on my salt tank anyways (maybe I should write up a log over in the marine section).

And one does not have to be "qualified" to post on my thread. If you've read through it there have been many beginners(though I wouldn't call you a beginner) or whatever asking questions about my setup. I appreciate comments from anybody. But as I stated in the first few posts, I'd only keep it up as long as there is interest.

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 03-Oct-2005 10:18

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

Can you link me to your log, for some reason I can't find it. I'm really bad looking for stuff, I usually look at what's active and try to comment when I can. - Thanks!



My Scapes

Here is Matty's beautiful log.

Matty - I don't know why your pictures are not showing on the early pages, did you remove them from your "photo bucket"?
With regards to adding comments to your thread, you have to remember that you started your log about 2 months before I got my very first tank and an additional 2 months until I joined FP. I AM A BEGINNER when one counts the years of experience as an indicator (and I certainly still make beginner mistakes).

I would say that FP should consider the creation of a file system that allows these logs to stay visible for an indefinite time period so that newer hobbyists have the chance to skim through them.

tetratech - No, I haven't done the multiple NO3 test yet as I have to carefully balance my time between the tanks and my duties as a father and husband. I am already stretching my wife's patience with all the planting, fertilizing, water changes, moving fish from here to there, trips to the LFS, etc. You know how it is . But I will try to do that soon.
Yeah, before I refill the tank I fill the cap of the Prime Canister (2 liters) half way (should be about 5ml) and while I add the water I pour it in the water stream in maybe 5 small doses. That's it.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 03-Oct-2005 12:24

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Thanks for the link. I actually did participate in Matty's log back in Feb'05. I didn't realize it was that one.

BTW - Does your water appear clearer in the morning than it does by the end of day. My tank is starting to look hazy by late afternoon?

Last edited by tetratech at 03-Oct-2005 16:48

My Scapes

First to answer tetratech’s question: I haven’t seen my tank in the morning ever since the day I started it. I am always either at work or I was away (last weekend).

Now to some questions that I hope someone can answer:

- How do I manage to dissolve the dry fertilizers before I add them to the water? In particular the Plantex (1/2 tsp) and the Seachem Equilibrium (1/2 tsp) give me trouble. I mix them up with 2 cups of tank water and stir like crazy; I even repeat the procedure after pouring about 4/5th into the tank by refilling to cup and stirring again. It does not dissolve for the life of it. They always create individual grains that first float in the tank and then collect on the gravel and the leaves.

- I am getting more and more algae. Still no reason to worry? The Water Sprite is growing like mad and a few other plants (for example Egeria Najas) are growing good as well.

- I was considering of adding a school of either Black Neons or Glow Light Tetras to the tank. I read today that they are more sensitive to the water chemistry than Cardinals and also require a dimmed tank to show themselves from their best side (and in the open). I also read that Rummynoses (another school I would like to add) are even more delicate. True?

- Should I add first another set of Otos? Other suggestions (remember – little fish)?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 03-Oct-2005 19:17

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

First to answer tetratech’s question: I haven’t seen my tank in the morning ever since the day I started it. I am always either at work or I was away (last weekend).

So I guess that's a no to "does your tank look hazy/slightly cloudy by days end" This was happening to my old 46 as well and I never figured it out. I wonder if it has something to do with high co2 levels and low ph by end of day. If anybody else knows or has this experience please chime in.


Dry Ferts
I don't use plantex or the Seachem equil so I'm not sure, but I am doing the same thing you are to dissolve my so4, po4 and no3.

Tetra sensitiviy
I haven't met to many fish that are more sensitive than cardinals to water. I will not attempt to put cardinals into my tank for at least 4 months, probably longer.
I wasn't aware that black neons were sensitive, I was also considering these fish. I already have a school of rummynoses in my tank and so far they are doing fine. I've had good luck with rummys, but maybe my water just agrees with them.






Last edited by tetratech at 03-Oct-2005 19:30

My Scapes

LF with the ferts you should dissolve them in a larger amount of water first, then add that water to your tank. The only dry ferts I have used is KNO3. This readily dissolved in 2 Liters of water to make 1mL = .25 ppm in my tank. You should have them stored in a dark cool place.


I think you should expect troubles while your tank "cycles" this is a real unstable period and you really have to wait it out. You may not find any ammonia or nitrIte, but things are still going to be a bit trying. In a couple weeks I would expect that your algae troubles will cease to be. I was lucky enough to start with a cycled filter and what not.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Oh, I'dd add rummynose for sure if your tank chemistry is stable. A good 20-30 would be a great school for a tank that size. And tetras aren't all that sensitive, a well planted community will be perfect for them. I keep cardinals, and don't do anything special for them - save for some baby brine from work every now and then(which I wouldn't do if didn't have such easy access to it), they also take frozen brine and flake too. Pretty easy critters if you ask me.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I think you should expect troubles while your tank "cycles" this is a real unstable period and you really have to wait it out. You may not find any ammonia or nitrIte, but things are still going to be a bit trying. In a couple weeks I would expect that your algae troubles will cease to be. I was lucky enough to start with a cycled filter and what not.

I definitely agree with this and that's another reason I wouldn't put any sensitive fish in the tank yet. My readings of nh3 are about 0.25 and I'm sure at this point nitrate are being produced, plus we are adding nitrates. Definitely see the benefits of adding "weeds" and then removing.

Even if your conditions are good, remember change kills fish. So if the fish are going from a non-co2, higher ph, etc. tank they should really be acclimated over a long period of time to your tank (2hrs +).

My experience with cardinals is not the same as Mattys. I did keep a successful school for 18 months without losing any, but they have never done well in an immature tank. If you are going to get cardinals I would find out the water parameters at the store. If it's far off from your tank I would move on to the rummys.

Last edited by tetratech at 04-Oct-2005 05:18

My Scapes

LF,

I don't think we talked about filter media. What are you using in your tank. We both have eheim filters, I think you have the 2028. Are you using the mech, coarse and fine pads. Also did you start you tank with carbon? What is your maintenance schedule going to be?

My Scapes

tetratech,

You are right, I have the 2028 from Eheim.

In the filter, I have 1 liter of Ehfimech in the bottom container that is topped off with the coarse pad (blue) and the next two containers upwards contain 4 liters of Ehfisubstrat topped off with the fine pad (white).

About the maintenance routine, I don’t have one yet .

I would assume that the ball that is floating in the connector section between the filter and the tubing (aka visual flow meter) will show me when the pump is not working at its full capacity and then I would maintain the filter. I will then have to open the filter, remove all the content, rinse it in tank water, put everything back into the filter, close it, and prime it.

I don’t use activated carbon on my tanks anymore. I know it makes the water cleaner but it also (at least that is the word on the street) binds fertilizer elements. The only time I would use it is to remove meds from a tank.

Matty and tetratech – thanks for the comments regarding my questions.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF - consider running carbon every now and again. Not full time, but say for a week every 3 months. Carbon can take out all sorts of nasties and can really polish the water. This can be good for any sensitive fish you are thinking about getting. The plants won't mind a week without ferts once they are well established as they store up nutrients.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

The only reason I asked about AC is for the startup. I don't use AC either, except for med removal, but I believe it might have it's uses at startup before the bacterial colony is established.

My Scapes

Gang,

After removing some of the strains of algae from the tank by hand tonight, I decided it is time to check some parameters. I know, I am using the useless test kits, but how else can I check? Like are the plants growing – yes, are all other things in sink – no, I have too much algae of all kinds.

So here are my values:

ph – 6.9 (I haven’t had a steady bubble count over the course of 2 days except once last week)
KH – about 4.5 dH
GH – about 5.5 dH
Nitrate – maybe between 20ppm and 30ppm
Iron – maybe 0.1 (first time I used this kit)
And here it comes: Phosphates – a whopping 5ppm to 10ppm (more towards the 10 color than the 5)

Could it be that the phosphates cause all the algae? Shouldn’t it be maybe up to 2ppm?

Here is my feeding plan again:

KNO3 – 1.25tsp 3x per week
KH2PO4 – 0.25tsp 3x per week
K2SO4 – 0.5tsp 3x per week
Plantex – 0.5tsp 3x per week
Seachem Equilibrium – 0.5tsp 1x per week

Any thoughts or ideas?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I just did another Phosphate test, this time on my tab water. It comes out with a color of at least 2ppm, maybe even a little more (darker).

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

based on your numbers, light, co2 the plants aren't taking up enough nutrients. I'm getting high readings as well on most parameters and my water is starting to get cloudy. I'm vexed, terribly vexed by the cloudiness. By this time in your tank, your probably getting add'l no3 from the cycling. I'm a little concerned maybe the EI method is too agressive based on your plant mass and especially mine. Why else would all your readings be that high. I read that Amano does multiple water changes during the first week or so, to control algae, etc. Have you checked nh3 levels as well. If the tank didn't cycle or went through a mini one the nh3 should be about zero. MY nh3 readings are somewhere between .25 and .50 and this after a water change 2 days ago.

BTW - Remember all of the algae problems I had in my 46 when the po4 levels were through the roof.

Last edited by tetratech at 04-Oct-2005 20:01

My Scapes

I see a few tweaks that could be made to your dosing. I don't think you got those numbers from me ?

Your phospate dosing is a little on the high side. 1/4 tspn is adding almost 2ppm a shot. Cut down to about 1/8 teaspoon which will give you about 1ppm a shot should be enough.

Cut the Kno3 to 1 tspn which will give about 7ppm a shot, again this should be fine.

Way too much Potassium. Your are adding K with every dose of No3 and Po4, the Equilibrium is quite high in K also. On top of that you are adding K2SO4 3 times a week. Overkill. It's probably not harming anything but if you don't need that much why add it. I'd eliminate the K2SO4 altogether or at least reduce to just onne dose at WC.

Co2 is still too low. Try to keep pH in the 6.6 to 6.8 range. If the needle valve is still causing problems set the bubble count a little high so if it falls back you still stay in a good range. I've got similar KH and push the pH to 6.6 comstantly with no effect on fish. This will speed up the nutrient uptake greatly.

You can do a big water change to reset. Try the dosing above. When the plant bio mass has really increased you can go back to original dosing if needed. You'll find uptake will increase dramatically as plants bio mass increases, also as they grow and get closer to the light photosynthesis will be stronger = more uptake.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf,

The phosphate levels make perfect sense to me now.

A quarter of a teaspoon of KH2PO4 raises the phosphate by 1.7ppm; my tab has about 2ppm. In the first week I filled the tank and added 3 doses of it, means 7.1ppm overall. Then I did a 50% water change which should bring me to about 2.8ppm. And this week I added another 2 doses, so together it should be around 6ppm and that is about what I measured last night (not considering any uptakes from the plants and test kit color issues).

I would even go so far as to cut out the addition of KH2PO4 to the macro nutrients all together for a while until the level of phosphate is low enough. I might never have to add any if my tab water analysis is correct.

About the needle valve – it just drives me nuts. I come home at night to see it bubble at about 1.5bps. So I turn it up and the next position is a stream of CO2. So I turn it down again until it stays at about 3.5bps. The next day the game repeats itself. I already adjusted my low pressure valve to constantly have a reading (didn’t have that in the beginning) but nothing has changed with regards to bubble consistency.


So here is what I am going to do tonight
- perform a 50% water change
- add 1tsp of Equilibrium
- add 1.5tsp of Baking Soda
- add my micros as usual

And Tomorrow (macro day)
- measure the Nitrate and Phosphate
- if phosphate is still high (which I assume will be the case) don’t add any KH2PO4
- if the nitrate is high too, don’t add anything
- if the nitrate is low, add 1tsp of KNO3

Sounds like a plan?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club