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LITTLE_FISH 125G Log | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now, this week cannot be complete without showing the Apistos again They are truely lovely fish and I can only recommend them. It would break my heart if they would not make it in my tank(s). The initial aggression of the Platies towards them has stopped, the male is now clearly the boss in the tank. Here is the female.She spends most of the time perusing the tank and nipping on plants and gravel. I don't know if she is going for small snails or plant matter. When she feeds on the surface it makes a clicking sound. Beautiful to watch. Female |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 19:08 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is the male. He spends all day patrolling the tank and chasing the Platies, in particular after feeding when all the food is eaten. I wonder why he does that? I think he has colored-up even more and he for sure is nice to observe. Both male and female are true stalkers. They swim up to something (like moss or gravel) hover for a second or two in front of it, and then they go in for the kill (or whatever they do there), really fast. The same can be said for their routine of surface feeding. They hover just below the surface, eye the food, and then shoot forward to catch it (with a click). Even without reading about it I can say that in nature they eat flies etc. that fall in the water. Isn't he beautiful? Male |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 19:13 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Gorgeous LF. Really gorgeous. Have you considered using your 20 or 29g as a breeding tank. Might be kinda fun? My Scapes |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 19:43 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks tetratech I first want to make sure that they make it though QT. My Rams also looked fine for a while, and then they died . And if you don't tell my wife, maybe a commited 10G for breeding (at some point) might be appropriate. What I know so far is that there is quite some time invoved in growing out the fry. Also, it is virtually impossible to identify males and females for a long time. This would mean that you have to keep as many fry as you can to assure possible pairs later on. So overall this would be quite a challenge. Ingo |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 20:14 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Thay are absolutely beautiful! I love the way he flares his spines in the pic of the male. Their behavior is typical cichlid hunting behavior I think as my krib does the same things. It's a delight to watch her picking around the tank. I love it when she jumps out from behind the main driftwood and lunges at one of the other residents, they flee madly away from her and she looks so smug, it's like she's playing a game only she can understand. They may eat bits of the plants but not destroy them. I feed algae flakes every now and then, it is good for the digestion. Most cichlids are omnivorous opportunity feeders. They are truly magnificent Ingo, I really hope they make into their final home with no issues, once there they will quickly become the rulers of their territory I'm sure. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 20:47 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I so have to get my hands on a couple Apistos. I was talking to my boss about it the other day and he said that I am better off trying to get them through the local club rather than him. He also said that they are hardier than Rams. I said cool man! Although I really do like rams too... I guess I will have to set up another tank sometime or change a tank over. I can see some problems occoring later on when I am married... Oh my boss has gone on colecting trips to SA for discus because he used to breed them. I guess I will have to trust him on this one. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 21:39 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | There is one more thing I would like to share about the Apistos, especially the female. I swear I didn't tinker with the camera settings and the lens is reflecting what I see in the tank. I had a feeling this morning that she is coloring up and then I checked again this afternoon. She is getting yellow, which - in terms of Apistogramma viejita - means she is getting ready. Wow, that would be almost too fast . But see for yourself and let me know if I am fooling myself. First sequence is from the evening I got them, so 3 days ago. The middle one is from around 10:30 AM today and the other one is from a few minutes ago, so 7 hours later. EDIT: It also appears as if the middle part of her caudal fin is growing back in already, nice. Do I see Yellow? |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 00:33 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I see yellow! Therefore you should come see my tank! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 01:26 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | Not quite egg guarding colors, but getting yellower nonetheless. You'll know when she's getting feisty. Lovely couple LF, good luck with them. Breeding them in your water would be difficult though, I think it's a little hard? Acid Rain told me that the eggs harden if the the water isn't soft enough. A 50/50 RO/Tap combo would probably do the trick. I love apistos and other dwarf cichlids(look around at some nannacara sp.), they make up for their size with outstanding colors. Can't believe you completely made over the tank again. This is the 4-5th time? Those plants must get tired of moving, I know I would. Looks nice every time, don't let any nitpickers tell you different. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 02:45 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Matty, Thanks for the input Yeah, I am getting tired of these major overhauls as well, although I think it is only the second time around that I removed almost all my plants at once. I think I have actually very soft water, the one time I checked my GH I got a reading of 1dH (same as my tab KH), that is why I add the Seachem Equilibrium after each water change. So maybe there is egg hope in the future, although I am certainly not in a rush with anything. All I really want them to do is to survive happily Ingo |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 03:13 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | No phosphates ? You killed Duckweed, a plant that could survive a nuclear holocaust ? Where was all the "I have got a lot of P in my tap" nonsense we've been listening to for the last 65 pages ???? Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late I have to agree the "execution" of the ANubias planting is not the best. Too flat. Get some rocks and tie/rubber band the Anubias on to crate some shape and a bit of mound. Or a bit of rock pile and use the Anubias to fill in cracks etc. You got fill that area with a real nice feature that would be almost maintenance free. It would make a nice playground for the Apisto's too I know you have crypts on the left but add more don't wait for the existing ones to fill in. More, more. hat and the Anubias structure would fill out that side of the tank real nice. Very little work to keep looking good. Those Apisto's have something in common with me - they get better looking with age The after feeding aggression is normal for lots of fishes. After the initial feeding frenzy is over it's time to collect the scraps, lot's a fish will suddenly get territorial and chase away others to give itself a better chance of getting the scraps before anyone else. They poke around the plants looking for things like snail eggs , hydra and other little micro-organisms. Great to watch. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 04:35 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late Yeah, the loss of Duckweed is a miracle to me. Having kept up my dosing of N even with reduced plant mass, and having more fish (by growth, not number) should mean that N was not a factor. The only nutrient I tinkered with was P and I am rather certain that I did not let that one bottom out but more likely had it between 1 and 2ppm. But given that nothing else changed, that must have been it. Or - I see the Rainbows and Pearls occasionally nibbling on it and during my last overhaul about 5 weeks ago I did reduce the amount of duckweed so that only a handful remained. Maybe, just maybe, the fish ate more than the growth rate of the plant. I will create a picture of an Anubias mount on the left of the tank later, and then talk about issues I could see with it. Thanks for the info on the "after feeding" aggression and the poking . Ingo |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 12:23 | |
Tainted Glory Hobbyist Posts: 97 Kudos: 41 Votes: 0 Registered: 03-Dec-2005 | Wouldn't you know it...I went to work on Sunday and found a tankfull of awesome Rasboras. I took a bunch home. Gotta love how that works! Fish are awesome man, Tom hasn't shut up about them yet! Tank looks good too. Good call on the Apistos. |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 01:21 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Its fun bringing fish home from Local breeders. Tonight I just brought home a BN from this guy that is older than dirts tank. He is thinking of pulling the female because he still has way too many of them in his 90G. I think he brought in about 100 of them and he said he has more where that came from....... Nice healthy fish though. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 01:51 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Tainted Glory, So you got some of my Espei, great . How many did you get? Glad to hear that Tom likes my fishies, I guess they sell pretty good then (if not snatched up by all the employees first). Now you take good care of them as I had a rather hard time letting them go . And give me some updates on them once in a while, will you? Ingo |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 12:47 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Gang, I would need all your brain power to help me on the Anubias Mount idea that Bensaf just recently mentioned. It makes perfect sense to me to have the Anubias in that arrangement, but I have quite a few issues with the actual implementation. The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center, orange starts off low on the left and continually rises to the right to attach to the main Star Grass group. Here are a few thoughts: - The main issue I believe is the water flow in the tank. The spray bar is on the top left side (horizontally) and the intake sits also on the left side at the back bottom. I am concerned that a mount right in front of the intake would create a rather strong current in that area. I also could see that such a layout would cut off the right side from the water flow completely. - If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake? - Keeping the overall structure in mind, would that create a nice horizon (light blue) for the whole length? What are your ideas? Ingo Some Options |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 19:50 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Ingo after all the work you just did on the tank, are you sure you're ready to mess with the structure more? If so here's my idea for making the retreat for fry safe from the intake and keeping a nice horizon. Here It's in very bright colours but I think it's straight forward. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 21:27 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake? Umm, do you want more Espei fry? It's also no guarantee that they'll breed over there, plus this isn't an Espei breeding tank, so i would'nt change the landscape around just to fit their needs. As for the Apistos, if you want to make things nice for them to breed make a little bit of rock work on the far side of the tank, on the right. They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse. Besides, in order to survive with the pearls and rainbows they'll have to hang out in the undergrowth and not wander too far - by the time they're big enough to safely come out they should be strong enough swimmers |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 21:39 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | luvmykrib - Yup, bright colored, but easy to understand . I was almost afraid that someone suggests this "change" as it was an option that I had on my mind but neglected to mention because of the work involved . Actually, I think this would be the best solution for all things considered. NowherMan6, sure do I want more Espei . Didn't you see the entry above from Tainted Glory? He works at the LFS where I just traded my Espei. Imagine if I could get all future fish on a reduced price ba And again, as I mentioned to luvmykrib , I thought that this is how it would have to be. Anubias on rocks to the right, doubling up as a breeding ground for Espei and Apistos. That may work. It might actually not be such a mess to swap the 2 groups. All Amubias are sitting rather lose on the gravel at the left and most plants on the right can be easily pulled (except the Red Rubin Sword, that will be a little messy). At least the gravel does not have a lot of gunk on it as it had been cleaned very well last weekend. In addition, I will recieve (I believe tomorrow) a plant order of: Mother plant Green Wendtii Mother plant Red Wendtii A Few Stems of Ludwigia arcuata (Needle Leaf) And for the fun of it - 1 Anubias pynaertii and 1 Anubias afzelii I guess I will "park" them in the tank until I have more time to plant on the weekend. |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 22:34 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | I am glad you were also thinking of that suggestion, I didn't want it to come from left field but I think it will look quite nice when it's done. I recently added the l. arcuata to both my tanks, it's a great plant with small needle leaves, the one in the 10 is shedding leaves as quick as it is growing new ones, but it is still growing and that's what counts, maybe keep it away from the current will help, and the one in the 25 looks great, it is a wonderful contrast to the lager leaves of the crypts and the nana it is beside. Too bad it doesn't come in red, it doesn't does it? More anubias to fill in the mound? The more the merrier! How will you be able to tell them apart? Little garden tags beside each one? Can't wait to see them. Have you decided which rocks to pile together and how it may look when it's finished? "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 23:21 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks luvmykrib for the info on the arcuata. I ordered only 4 and given the prize for it I assume it means 4 stems (I actually wanted to have another type of Ludwigia, but they were out of that one and called me to select a replacement, very nice). With such a small mass to begin with it will take a while before I have a needle forest . Good idea about the plant tags, I am sure that it is only a question of time until I will have to look at photos on the web to identify which plant is what. Fortunately I am pretty good at adding the names of the plants I have to my profile, so at least I don't have to even search for that. I have loads of rock of the kind that you see holding down the big branch. I simply assumed that I will go ahead and pile them up somehow, leaving small openings and overhangs for the Apistos and the Espei. Do I know how it will look in the end? No clue . I think the one thing that stopps me from becoming a good scaper is the fact that I am rather bad at imagening how things will look like when all is said and done . Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 00:50 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse Yes that's really true the 2 times I did see eggs in my tank from my rams they spawned in two different areas of the tank. First time it was on the surface of a flat rock the 2nd time they spawned on the vertical face of one of the rocks making up the beachfront. So ya never know what they're thinking. Might be a coincedence but the 2nd time they spawned in the front the eggs never made it to fry. The first them I had about 100 fry, but you know the story from there............ My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 00:56 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks tetratech, certainly an interesting observation. I hope one day I can report back on multiple spawning sites, but until then we have to hope that they make it though. And tetratech, no comment on the desired Anubias mount? You currently are the man of the perfect layout, I need your advice . Besides that, I am in love with a girl. Yes, besides my wife and daughter, I have a new girl. The female Apisto has taken my heart by storm. Just look at her development in only 5 days: My Love |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 02:21 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | I can't see any problems with flow etc. Many people use big structures like this hide intakes etc. I know I do. Take out the Anubias , get a few rocks and put them in and arrange, study, re-arrange 'til you are happy (late August 2012 is my guess ). You are not uprooting anything so it'll be minimal disturbance. If you like you rubber band select Anubias to the rocks, the rest can just be put in cracks or gaps (don't force them in). I gurantee you'll be happy with the look. It's a very natural vista and it will help highlight and balance the more delicate lines of the driftwood. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 03:54 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Besides that, I am in love with a girl. I assume your not like ther rest of us poor slobs and you go for personally as well as looks. Unless you go saltwater it's tough to beat the personally and looks of the dwarf cichlids. I have to go back again to look at the anubias situation. Remember I only had anubias once and I didn't like the way it looked in my setup. My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 04:48 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, Your fish is looking really nice. She must like you too. Well at least what you have given her. As for the Anubias mound. Bensaf has already kind of said what to do. Just keep playing with it until you find something that flows for you. This will be easy for you to change and mess around with too. The one thing I would like to add though is to try using fishing line instead of rubber bands. It won't jump out at you as much. Just make sure to not tie it too tight and cut the plant. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 05:09 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | you go for personally as well as looksYeah, she seems to be very smart, well spoken, and displays great manners at the dinner table Honestly, I thought these fish may be a little on the shy side first, but when they swim near the front glass they don't move away at all when I touch it. It almost seems as if they would like to come even closer so I can pet them (I think I lost it completely). Wings - thanks for the info. I have gotten pretty good at tying things down with thread and I think I will stick to that method. And for Apisto food, appetizers are flakes and the main course is some freeze dried tubifex worms. Speaking of Anubias (), I am currently paying the prize for letting them sit out of the water during the overhaul. As I mentioned before, various leaves did not like the hours in the air and started wo wrinkle up and appreared very dry. Most seemed to have recovered though, but a few are now displaying holes and missing pieces on the edges. Maybe during the creation of the mount I will cut them off, albeit they don't show signs of disintegration, just missing parts. Speaking of mount etc., anyone has any idea where I would place the two Wendtiis (red/green)? I don't have them yet, but given the prize and desc Sorry about the long entry, Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 15:44 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Long entries are cool but you better check the thread out about Flourish Excel. (someone is in trouble...) So you know that you do not do will with Crypts so what do you do... get more of them.... just remember half of being smart is knowing what your bad at and staying away from it. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 16:06 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | half of being smart is knowing what your bad at and staying away from it ... and the other 90% of being smart is learning from your mistakes and making it better the next time around . Crypts are simply to nice to only try once. Although you are right and I had no success with them so far, I still managed to maintain some of them for one year now. They just never turned into anything and all just have a few leaves (new ones come, old ones melt). It may have to do with the fact that I divided the original plant way too early, just a guess. Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 16:45 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center I'm not following this anubias mound. You do mean mound right, because you keep saying mount (2nd language thing or typo?) If I follow correctly an anubias mound on one side of the tank. Aren't anubias used scattered around a big tank to fill in between rocks, wood and sometimes other plants for contrast. Can't you make an "anubias playground" in front of the main rock/dw/stargrass area making it dense in the middle front then less dense as you move away from the middle. If not enough space, you might be able to move the grassy plant in front of the stargrass into two groups that are left and right of the center with the anubias group sort o in the middlefront and blending into it. My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 17:01 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | mound - ah yes, that is what I mean, thanks See, logically for me, a small mountain is a mount and not a mound. So where did the t get replaced with a d? That's the problem with English as a second language. In front of the Star Grass group may be nice as well, you are right. But the tank is only 18" deep and I would have to build the group over the main flat branch it the front all the way to the glass. I think it will become very crowded there with this approach. Also, the Anubias leaves will lose their contrasting appearance with the overwhelming Star Grass behind it. I will take a closer look at this option tonight. Otherwise, what do you think about a mound on the left of the Star Grass? Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 17:19 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Otherwise, what do you think about a mound on the left of the Star Grass? Personally I think it would look good if you did one on the right side as well. I'm not saying everything has to be symmetrical, but in this case I think it would'nt "flow" good to have anubias just on the left. I think you also need to decide on your corners. You know you could lay those heaters down so you won't see them. You could also buy those hydor inline heaters and it will completely eliminate those two heaters in the tank. I just think heightening the corners reduces your flexiblity and competes with the center. Unless your gonna build a back of varying height all the way across. My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 17:41 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Hay, all these decisions Unless your gonna build a back of varying height all the way acrossThat is pretty much what I have, isn't it? Also, I think you may misunderstand the mound idea. I would like it to be really low on the way way left, rising towards the Star Grass. I could even go so far as leaving a few inches open all the way at the left and all the way to the back. if you did one on the right side as wellHm, sounds nice, but the downside would be that there will be not much space left for any other type of plant. buy those hydor inline heaters and it will completely eliminate those two heaters in the tankI actually have currently 3 heaters in the tank, two stealth at 200W each on the left and one regular with 300W on the right. If I am not mistaken then the Hydor have a max capacity of 300W. I would have to have a few in line (or parallel) and I don't know how feasible that would be. Too many thoughts, "overload - Will Robinson" Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 18:21 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Well, when I look at your tank right now, I see mostly high center and high corners. I think I understand the mound, but I guess I would have to see it with anubias only in one location. If it's a tank in itself with an anubias mound that of course we have seen. Your right about the heater. I bet you don't even need the 300 watt visi-therm. I have one 250 watt stealth and I have absolutely no fluctation and I just went through a New York Winter. Actually if the mild winters keep up I'll have to get a chiller. You know they sell these regulators inline that chill and heat? I think you could fit a 6-pack in there as well. My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 19:09 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Too many thoughts, "overload - Will Robinson" So just to prove that I have some sort of reading issue. I read Will Robinson as Robin Williams. Inline heaters? Sounds really sweet. tetratech. post a link! I guess it is hard to see what you have in mind for the Anubias. Can't wait to see whats in your head. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 00:14 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Welcome to neurosis central folks ! Pull up a chair and grab a Prozac Anubias are very very versatile. They can be used to fill gaps , make backgrounds, mounds etc. Remember too that LF has some of the taller bigger varieties. It doesn't have to be a mound - it can be a peak if you want. Whatever rocks your boat. But whatever it is it can only look better then laying flat on the substrate, a waste of plant and space IMHO Tetra didn't like the look of Anubias in his tank becasue he chopped it up into little bits and spread it around the tank in really odd places Thankfully he has learned to aquascape since then Something has to be done with the left section it's a barren wasteland compared to the rest of the tank. Ingo, With the crypts if they fit I would put them altogether. I've mentioned before crypts always seem to do better when planted in groups. Individual plants always seem to be a bit wimpy. A 6 footer is not easy to 'scape. I'm guessing that the best way to approach is take a small section perfect that and then see what will work best to flow away from there. Basically work your way from one side to the other. I think the pile of rock with Anubias fronted by a thick grove of crypts would be real nice, simple but effective. The tall species like the Congensis are particularly suitable for this approach. It'll be darker there but that will offset the brighter stargrass even better. How long is it going to take to temporarily rubber band a few Anubias to rocks and put in the tank and play around with it ? Stop pulling the last two hairs on your head out and get your hands wet Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 03:56 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Tetra didn't like the look of Anubias in his tank becasue he chopped it up into little bits and spread it around the tank in really odd places If the plant can't stand being chopped up and put in strange places and positions then "GET OUT OF MY TANK" It's funny I originally got that anubias for my 12gallon and it didn't make the cut in their either. My Scapes |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 04:26 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Gang, Thanks so much for your input, but anything that came after Noon yesterday has not been read until all was planted . As such, the tank is yet again a product of my skewed visions of what may look good. But first things first, the plants were already at home when I arrived, not too bad for having ordered them just the day before. Well, upon opening the package I was a little in shock. The order was a bit larger than expected, in particular the Wendtiis were huge and the Anubias pynaertii has a hight of about 18 inches. Also, I got 3 Anubias afzelii (ordered one) and 6 bunches of Needle leaf Ludwigia with 8 stems each. I think by now I can recommend this source of plants, I believe tetratech uses them as well - aquariumplants.com. New Plants have Arrived |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 12:12 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Next I had to wash them all. This took quite a while because the Wendtiis turned out to be multiple plants (5 green and 3 red), each encased with this nasty growing wool . After cleaning I placed them all in the tank to avoid drying out (as happened last weekend to some of my Anubias) while I ripped out my last two hairs wondering what to do now (where is the smiley simboizing a bald guy? ). The big mount idea was gone very soon as I determined that it would take loads of rock to create any significant height (played with the rocks I have on the coffee table). BTW, I was reading about Floating Meadows in TFH and somehow this arrangement just looks like one. The younger Espei really like zooming through these floating plants. Maybe there is an idea for the future or another hobbyist. Plants parked |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 12:17 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Then it was time to take action, and boy it was almost another major overhaul yet again . First I removed all plants from the far right, except the Alternanthera. Here I added all 5 Green Wendtii in the midground and some pearl grass in front of it. Gaps were filled with Helferi and Retrospiralis remains. Next it was the Pearl Grass valley's turn, out with all the plants. I placed some Helferi in the way back and a rock with the Congensis at the right of the valley. In front of that rock I tied my 2 mystery Anubias and my 3 new Afzelii to the rock that holds down the wood on the right. In the gap I placed one of the red Wendtii and another one in front of the Star Grass. On to the left side. All Anubias Barterii and Nana out of the tank and back in, closer to the Star Grass group, with the new Peruensis in the back (tied to a small rock as it had insufficient roots to be stuck into the gravel). A Helferi and 2 smaller Retrospiralis are added for contrast. Then I regrouped my existing crypt plants (small Wendtiis, Lucens, Lutea) in front of it, the narrow leaf and needle leaf Ludwigias to the left, and one new red Wendtii in front of that group. Last but not least I filled gaps with small plants, mostly Pearl Grass. So, 3 hours later- here is the result: New Tank Layout |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 12:20 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Then it was time to close shop as I got tired and it was almost time for lights out in the tank. I fed the fish (they can also be seen eating on top in the full shot) and just enough time for one more picture from the right half of the tank, an attempt to show more detail. Then the lights went out in the tank and it was time to say good night. Overall, as usual, I am not too excited with the results, but I am not disappointed either. The least I get out of this is a larger plant mass Right Half |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 12:23 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, Pretty good work my friend. I like it. Did you about poo your pants after finding plants that look as large as house plants to go in your tank? The one thing I sugest to you is move the grassy plants on the left closer to the center. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 14:29 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, I think you did a fine job placing the anubias in and around the wooded area in the center and spreading it out. Have you considered adding some more rock work to the left and right of the center to hide some stems and give it more depth and take out the flatness. Nothing overpowering just accents, but it will give it more visual interest and blend it with the center. My Scapes |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 14:55 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | ...after finding plants that look as large as house plants to go in your tank?I have to confess that I have never seen (in person) Wendtii this tall and full. This is a whole other plant than the tiny pieces that I have, and ever had. I knew I was getting a larger plant (mother) and as such the size did not really surprise me, but what did was the number of these plants (1 mother red = 3 large red, 1 mother green = 5 large green). In the end I am actually rather happy with their placement, for the time being , grouping all green was a good idea, but having the even larger red ones spread out seems to work as well as they connect the individual broad leaved Anubias groupings. Have you considered adding some more rock work to the left and right of the center to hide some stems and give it more depth and take out the flatnessI truely ran out of time . I can't see any stems on the right, and on the left I only see the roots of the Anubias as they are not buried but places losely on top of the gravel, held down by the gravel that attached itself to their roots when they were submersed. I would have loved to try rockwork on the left, but time was short and the old man got tired . I am currently waiting for Bensaf's report on the Ground Crew and that is one reason why I don't want to plant all the way to the front anymore. Other reasons are that it is easier to clean and that if intself generated more depth. Thanks for the comments to both of you, as always it is very much appreciated, Ingo |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 15:20 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Now them are some Crypts. Love them. I have to agree with tetra - I think you dd a fine job in planting them. Perfect. Is it just me or does the whole scape look more solid ? That's what I was trying to get at. You now have an anchor you can build around. I was think the very same thing as tetra (fools seldom differ ? ). A few rocks between the Anubias and Crypts on the left, just accents maybe la Great job. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 16:00 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Great job Come on, you just want me to agree with you on your upcoming Ground Crew report . Actually, the fact that I was not happy with the design but not horribly upset either indicated to me that it was pretty ok. I agree, the scape looks more solid and this is in most part due to the stretch of larger leaves all across the tank's width (I believe). I hear both of you on the rocks. One also has to keep in mind that the Ludwigia family on the way left behind the large red Wendtii will grow significantly higher. So maybe the best way to include rocks in the Anubias section would be a U shaped layout where the left side guides down from the higher Ludwigia and the right side guides up to the higher Star Grass. Thanks Bensaf, Ingo |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 16:28 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | My money is on ground crew. I'll be making a post later on this very subject. Just need to prepare some pics. A white paper on grounds crew dynamics. Oh this is gonna be good. My Scapes |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 17:18 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | It is already out there tetratech (and all others), Here is the link to it. It may explain why your substrate is so clean. Ingo |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 17:26 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I finished off the tank last night and tried to rearrange the Anubias on the left with the help of some rock. After playing for about an hour, rocks in - Anubias on top - Anubias back off - rocks rearrange - and so forth, I decided on having only one rock on the way right of this group. That elevated the Anubias there and has the group sloping down to the left. Then I added a little more Pearl Grass and my 5 Nana Petite that were still sitting in a bucket with water, and called it a night. Enough is enough Here is the tank: Full Tank |
Posted 24-Mar-2006 11:59 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is now a picture just of the left side. I hope that the arrangement is even remotely what you had in mind when suggesting the addition of rocks. BTW, not one Anubias in this group needed to be tied on as all have gravel on their roots that pulls them down. This made it a little easier. Left Tank Side |
Posted 24-Mar-2006 12:02 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is a close-up of my main log. As covered in algae as it is, it also has some beauty to it. If I could be sure that existing algae is not an invitation to disaster then I wouldn't mind this particular algae in only this area at all. I think it makes it look very natural Algae Log |
Posted 24-Mar-2006 12:05 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And last, here is the middle section of the tank that (I hope) brings the sides together. I added a little more Pearl Grass in some spots and placed the Nana Petite in front of the log. Could be a nice tank in itself. Center Area |
Posted 24-Mar-2006 12:08 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I think you are on the right track with the Anubius but I think you need to make it larger. Maybe have it be more of a rounded structure. I like the looks of the algae on the front log too! Natural looking. In the discus tank at work there is aglae growing on top of a peice of DW that actually looks pretty good. It has been there ever since I have started (about 7 months ago). When I started using Excel it started to go away but not that I am running CO2 on this tank its coming back. It is the only place in the tank that has it so I am not freaking out. Yet... 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 24-Mar-2006 14:58 | |
GandB Enthusiast Posts: 207 Kudos: 592 Votes: 68 Registered: 09-Dec-2003 | Man, I've been gone for awhile now. This is a very nice set-up (and the longest thread I've ever seen). One of these days things will slow down enough to where I can begin to get back into the hobby like this. Good work. -Keith http://www.ozarkgames.com |
Posted 24-Mar-2006 17:22 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Keith, Thanks for the input. I am flattered to have someone who hasn't been on FP for a while add his first entry into my log - and on top of it has something positive to say about my tank. Thank you very much, Ingo |
Posted 24-Mar-2006 17:32 | |
dan76 Big Fish Always Reading Posts Posts: 343 Registered: 08-Jul-2003 | be mindful of the future my young padawain, () kill the algea now or end up with a tank that looks like mine |
Posted 25-Mar-2006 09:17 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Hi, I too had a piece of driftwood in my tank. It became "encrusted" with hair algae and really looked beautiful as the long hairs swayed in the currents. But, alas, all was not well, and the "hairs" broke off and gathered elsewhere on my plants, and soon the whole tank was swaying in the currents. It took forever, and the removing of the dirftwood for me to resolve the problem. Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 25-Mar-2006 18:04 | |
Rob1619 Fish Addict Posts: 763 Kudos: 619 Votes: 626 Registered: 01-Sep-2004 | Looking really nice..love the drifwood Robby |
Posted 25-Mar-2006 21:09 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Tanks to all 3 of you for the input and information regarding algae on the driftwood. I did my water change today (photos and details will follow tomorrow) and used that chance to scrape off some of the algae. Not all is gone though, I may need a few sessions to get rid of it. This also gives me the chance to see if it spreads again. A slightly troublesome development happened today in the QT. After the water change in that tank I noticed that one of the platies was breathing really hard. On closer observation it seemed that the fish was not able to close its mouth anymore at all. Also, some slight swelling up of the fish was noticable, like the beginning of dropsy. It happened to be one of my original females that were added 7 months ago, I am rather certain that she must have been at least 1 year old because she was fully grown when I got her and had babies right away. I had to let her go . I will keep an eye on the situation, all others are doing just fine. My concern, besides that there is a chance of an illness, is that the young adult male will terrorize the remaining females. He was already a pushy little punk before, but now there are less females for him to herass. If he gets out of control (and there is no sign of further illness) then I will move him into the 29G, here he has to stand his man in a crowd of larger Sunset males, they are going to show him his rightful place . Ingo |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 00:24 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Weekly Tank Update - Week 26 The last week was rather boring, besides 2 events that are worthwile to be noted. 1) A new plant order came in on Wednesday and has been added to the tank, some re-arranging was required in the attempt to create some flow. 2) A side-discussion with Bensaf in another thread revealed that my addition of Seachem Equilibrium is rather insignificant. I forgot to read the instructions and basically added only enough to raise the GH by 0.17 dH . I measured my GH yesterday in the morning and I have to say that it was not easy to interpret the test kit. It seems I am having maybe 2 to 3 dGH, which in itself would be fine. After the water change I added double the usual amount of Equilibrium, I figure it cannot harm and I will see if things improve. The replant from last weekend (major) is still having an impact on the tank. The fool that I am I forgot to suberse the Anubias for hours and I am still losing one or the other leaf. Even worse, my 10 minute bleach dip turned almost all Helferi leaves brownish. I assume I will have to remove them soon. This week I am showing a series of pictures to demonstrate the change the tank underwent of the last 26 weeks. First, the tank when it was just set up: After Initial Setup - 26 Weeks ago |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 13:51 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is the tank 6 weeks later, in the meantime it underwent a Weed-Treatment to generate as much plant mass as possible in the shortest period possible to establish the tank quickly. Now the first attempts to scape have begun: Week 6 |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 13:53 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | By week 17 the tank had grown into a jungle and it became almost impossible to maintain it at that stage. Plants were shading each other, the substrate couldn't be reached anywhere anymore (except for the areasin which the Glosso had been removed because it killed itself by being 5 la In other words, a change was needed soon: Week 17 |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 13:57 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And onl 2 weeks later the tank underwent its largerst overhaul to date, all but one plant had been removed and replanted, or simply thrown away. A major piece of driftwood was added in an attempt to improve on the scape, I think it was a good move although, once done, the tank still wasn't all that great. Week 19 |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 13:59 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | The tank started to show major algae (thread) issues after this replant and the fact that I lost the CO2 for about a week while being on vacation made the situation even worse. Something needed to be done and I, once again, removed almost all plants and restyled the arrangement. Only the plants that had not too much thread algae on them were added back in, others were trimmed or discarded. This left me with the lowest plant mass in a long time. Week 25 |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 14:03 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And, as described in the update post above, I decided to add more plants for 2 main rasons: - Mass - Flow (design) So far I find the layout pretty nice. Yes, there is room for improvement, but not right now. And if you compare the Star Grass in the last 2 pictures you will see that growth is good, in particular when I add that I had to trim about 4 inches of the top. This Weekend - Week 26 |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 14:06 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here are just a few detail shots nothing much. The first one is of the arranged - and rearranged - Anubias group on the left half of the tank. As you can see, it slopes downward from the Star Grass to the Needle Leaf Ludwigia. I may play with this group in the future, but for now I will leave it alone. Anubias Group |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 14:09 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a shot of my Nana Petite arrangement, not to creative, lined up in front of the main driftwood. I had a hard time trying to tie them to rocks and decided that for the time being they should be buried in the substrate. Don't worry, the rhizome is not buried. I am very curious as to what these little buggers will turn into. Actually, I read somewhere that over time Nana Petites will start to develop larger leaves again as the dwarf gene is not persistent. Any info on that? Anubias Nana Petite |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 14:13 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | One of the residents in the tank that is thriving on my algae supply. While I don't see them eat the longer threads, they for sure nibble on the young growth right next to it. I haven't been able to account for them all in at least 2 weeks, but I am sure that most of them are doing well. Uh, this reminds me, maybe it is time now for some Amano Shrimp, what do you think? Oto |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 14:15 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And last but not least, the newcomers It will be a few weeks (maybe 3 more) before I will add them, but they arereally beautiful. I guess I didn't do enough research before I purchased them as I basically accepted the fact that will have a dull female in my tank and the male's color will balance this out. I find her coloration just as attractive as his, and she is a feisty little fish. And that's it for now, Ingo Apisto viejita II - Pair |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 14:18 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, The board is quiet today, Anyway what happened to this layout. I really liked the way you spread the anubias around. It appears to have changed with the new additions. Still looks nice. I like the Nana Petite arrangement in front of the driftwood. I have to ask this. What have you changed that you think will help with the algae situation this time around? More co2, anything else? As far as shrimp go, make sure that the dwarf cichlids won't eat them. I thought I read somewhere that certain species might. My Scapes |
Posted 26-Mar-2006 19:54 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech, Thanks for the input. To answer some of your questions: - The Anubias are exactly were they were in the picture you showed, except that the group on the left is sloped and a few of the crypts in front of it (lucens and lutea) have been moved a little. - To avoid algae I will keep my CO2 crancked up and the ferts as well. - Thanks for the info on the shrimp. It was a thought that crossed my mind, but I thought that if they are ok with your Bolivians then they should be fine with the smaller Apistos as well. Guess that may not be true. The only thing I did yesterday was to remove 3 male Platies from the QT. Nasty little buggers. I observed them chasing after the Apistos and attempting to nip their fins, even the male's . Off they went to the 29G. The rest of the day was pretty much commited to resting, as I got a cold Ingo |
Posted 27-Mar-2006 13:04 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Glad the anubias are still there, cause it looked nice. Never saw the bolivans go after the shrimp, but you never know. It would be an expensive snack for those fish. Do me a favor and put a lot of java moss in your tank so some apistos fry will survive and you could send some to live with Uncle Tetra My Scapes |
Posted 27-Mar-2006 15:14 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | ...you could send some to live with Uncle TetraWell, Uncle Tetra Will do, but first they would have to breed for me, and then I would have to overcome the same hurdle than you with your Bolivians - how to manage to feed the fry. Time will tell. Yeah, $5 per piece for a snack is rather expensive, I don't think I am willing to treat my Apstos that well. Ok, maybe for their birthday . Ingo |
Posted 27-Mar-2006 16:35 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | I've added a total of 8 shrimp to my tank since I started it. 3 Amanos/Yamatos 3 Ghosts 2 Cherries The only ones I see right now on a regular basis are the Yamatos. I haven't seen a ghost shrimp in about a month so who knows. 1 Cherrie I removed to another tank and the other hasn't been spotted since I put them in. So there fate could have been old age, no3 levels or the became a meal. My Scapes |
Posted 27-Mar-2006 19:59 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | tetra, have you ever seen your schooling fish pick on the shrimp, like the pencils or the cardinals? |
Posted 27-Mar-2006 20:25 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | tetra, have you ever seen your schooling fish pick on the shrimp, like the pencils or the cardinals I did see the cardinals go after a very small cherry shrimp, but they never made contact and might have thought it was a piece of food at first. My Scapes |
Posted 27-Mar-2006 21:08 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Excellent Good to hear... |
Posted 27-Mar-2006 21:20 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | K, means no shrimpsters for me then, I guess. Sad news, unexpectetedly I had to put one of my female Rainbows down. This is the first loss in the tank ever since the Otos were added months ago (and some didn't make it, as expected). I came down to the tank this afternoon (sick-have a cold or something) and saw her swimming on the surface. Whenever she hit the current of the spraybar she was swirled around in it, showing that she has no strength anymore. Also, what first appeared as nicer than usual coloration turned out to be scales sticking out - dropsy. I have no idea what the reason is, there are two thoughts (actually 3 - I describe the third later) - replanting during the last week was stressful on her - I cleaned the filter and on restart a lot of gunk was washed from the hose into the water. Maybe it is bad for fish and she ate it. Third thought: She looked different from the time I got her. While the other 2 have a straight line from the mouth to the dorsal fin, she had a bend in it. Maybe she was misformed and as such couldn't function properly. I never thought much of it, until now. In the picture (not new) below she is on top and another female below. Any info? The top one died |
Posted 27-Mar-2006 23:44 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, Sorry to hear about your DNR. I about lost one of mine last week. I had the lid off doing some work on the tank and one decided that it was a good idea to jump out at me. So I grab it and throw it back in only to have it jump out on the back side of the tank. Not good! Lucky it didn't land in the tank below. It would have become a snack. I had to move my book case to get to the thing but it seemed to be doing find a couple of days later. As for what happened to yours I am not going to get into it because I am really bad at that stuff. So I will leave it at sorry. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 28-Mar-2006 01:48 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 |
I doubt it was anything you did, like the two things above. If these things did kill the fish then it was on it's way out anyway. Not my area of expertise, but the fish does look deformed, which is not that uncommon with any animal that reproduces in large numbers. Most deformed/mutated individuals don't survive as long as normal specimans, unless it's to it's advantage, but we don't need to get into the whole Darwin thing. My Scapes |
Posted 28-Mar-2006 02:33 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | tetra, Thats the one of the few Darwinian things I don't mind so much LF, Ater looking at your picture again. The top fish kind of looks like a he/she. It has the more pointy nose of a male and the color of a female. Maybe that was its cause of stress. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 28-Mar-2006 03:36 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks tetratech and Wings for the input. I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that the shape of that fish was a little off, and Wings I had the same thought about the he/she thing, but I don't know if this is possible. I know that there are species with "males in hiding" that only show their true colors when they feel strong enough to compete with the other males (or alpha male), but I don't know it Rainbows are within that group. And even if so this should not have been a health issue then as it would be natural. I don't know. Let's just hope that this is the last death for a while, nothing is more depressing in ones tank than fish death. Ingo |
Posted 28-Mar-2006 12:29 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | OK GANG, I need some Apstio Advice It all started yesterday when I was going to feed the fish in the QT. Usually, tapping the food container on the glass brings them all together to the front, even the Apistos have learned that by now. But, no sign of the female. I looked (just looked, not rearranged) all over the tank and started to feed when she appeared, I don't know from where. She is more beautiful than ever and has an orange included in her yellow coat now. Then, after an appetizer of flakes, I went back to get the freeze dried Tubifex worms, and again she was not to be found . She came then out from behind one of the pieces of driftwood and after eating some worms dissapeared to that area again. I lurked around the side of the tank and saw her hush into a little cave in the wood. The same happened ever since yesterday, whenever I approach the tank she cannot be seen, but she comes out to feed and then goes back there. The male is his usual, no changes at all. I removed the backcover, but my head is too big to fit in the gap between tank and wall. I used a small mirrow and a flashlight. I held the mirror in the tank and used the flashlight to see what is going on back there - Too deep of a cave and too dark. Do I have eggs back there for sure? She is not in hiding because of stress as she looks sooooo good right now. I cannot go out and buy liquid fry food just ba Any ideas what is going on and what to do? Ingo |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 02:06 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | She might have eggs back there but cichlids can be wierd sometimes. My baby convicts either beg for food at the top of the tank or hide like they have never seen a big hairy faced balding stressed out soon to be married college kid before. The parents are the same way. Sometimes very personable others they act like they have never seen you before. I wouldn't worry about feeding the fry right away if that is the case. They can normally fend for themselves really well for a while just on left over egg sack. If you do see some fry it might be worth getting some frozen baby brine shrimp to feed them though. My baby convits grew much faster than normal when I was feeding them that. How is the male looking? No extra color or anything? Agression? 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 04:10 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks Wings, How is the male looking? No extra color or anything? Agression?Fine, No, No. This are the quick answers to your questions . This is what throws me off, as I would have assumed him to be more aggressive with eggs around. On the other hand, I read that it is the female that protects the edds/fry and the male is in charge of territory (which by the way is supposed to be larger than the 20G QT). I will have to keep an eye open for any tiny fish that may stick its head out of the wood cave at some point. If they stay in the back of the cave then there is no way for me to tell. Anyone has any idea of how long the incubation time for Apisto Eggs is? Ingo |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 11:54 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Anyone has any idea of how long the incubation time for Apisto Eggs is? It's probably a few days, before they become wigglers. As someone mentioned they probably wouldn't need food for at least a few days after they hatch because they have the yolk sacs. Funny thing is my two rams have disappeared over the last few days, but there is so much density in the tank I'll probably never find the eggs and I can't go behind mine. When my rams spawned the first time they laid the eggs on a piece of petrified wood and then they dug a borrow in the substrate and moved the egg/wigglers in there? My Scapes |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 14:10 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | LF, No experience with apistos, but that sounds like pretty standard dwarf cichlid breeding behavior. There's no other reason for her to not come out and beg for food. They may eat the first batch themselves, it may take them a while to "Get it" I wouldn't go crazy about this batch... but I guess this is why when people breed them intentionally they just tanks without a lot of clutter so you can actually see and feed the fry etc. |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 14:30 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks you two for the input Yeah, I guess there is not much I can do than wait and see what will happen, but you know how it is. I nearly broke my neck yesterday when trying to get a closer look into the cave . Guess I will have to get the goggles out and take a head dive into the tank. I wonder what the fish would think about that . Thanks again, Ingo |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 15:18 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I would get with tetra before you take your dive! He has the head gear you need! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 15:23 | |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 15:26 | This post has been deleted |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 15:29 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | LF, By the way, was the LFS you sold the espei to AF? I saw some very VERY healthy looking "tank raised" rasbora espei the other day... |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 21:34 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Yup NowherMan6, That may have been mine Did ya buy any? And tetratech - we (NowherMan6 and I) cannot afford such a sophisticated head-stander to do our dive chores . Ingo |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 22:34 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | And tetratech - we (NowherMan6 and I) cannot afford such a sophisticated head-stander to do our dive chores Yeah, I'm usually hired for only really big tanks: My Scapes |
Posted 29-Mar-2006 22:44 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I about choked on my food! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 00:04 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Caption for this photo: "While everyone else enjoyed a pleasant lunch, tetratech proceeded to stare off into the distance, snapping back into consciousness only to drink his saki through his special blue Fish Geek straw." |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 00:30 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Feels like the good old days are back. But you know, he was really there, he even visited the ADA site. Tetratech at ADA |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 00:40 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | What is the ADA? It looks sweet! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 03:50 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Wow, now that you mention it LF, he seems to be popping up all over the place. Why, this evening I was looking through an old history textbook and I came across a picture with a familiar looking guy in it... Wait, wait... oh my... is that... yes, yes it is! Tetra that's you! I didn't know you were one of Teddy Roosevelt's rough riders!! |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 04:16 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | The caption to that picture read: "Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders were also the first Unit to train in modern warfare, although Corporal Tetratech's goggles and snorkel didn't proof effective agains chemical agents, even when wearing them 24/7" |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 11:55 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Man this is cracking me up, made my day. Of course I couldn't resist Caption ? - "Darn, how does he get that Wallichii so pink?" Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 14:58 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Yeah, I don't know if tetratech anticipated this when he started this section. But he is looking pretty good for someone who seems to stick his head all the time in everybodies business, eh - tank. Ingo |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 15:03 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | OK, last one, I promise... "LF introduces his new fish, the Dwarf Neon Tetratech" |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 15:08 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Sadly it all came to end today for tetratech. After pursuing him for days, tetratech was arrested. The charges included breaking into Amano's house, stealing from ADA, impersonator a rough rider and wallichii abuse. They are still looking for his accomplish LF, for his part in the dwarf neon tetratech fish scandal. My Scapes |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 16:10 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Nice way to end it tetra! The funny part about that picture is the guy holding the vidio cammera. What kind of poilic training does that take? 1 dounut... 2 dounut aht aht ahh.. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 18:49 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Ah, that was fun Let's just hope tetratech will be released again soon On the actual tank frontier: Nothing much happened, it may be that a little algae growth can be observed, but not too much so far. The female Apstio is still doing her hiding thing, but I just cannot peek into that cave. We will see, Ingo |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 21:05 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | LF, Do you have a close-up pic of the algae in question? |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 21:10 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Not here, but it is basically more of the same than the one that eventually caused me to do the last major overhaul. Small threads on plant leaves and the glass, none longer than maybe 1/2 an inch. And not too many yet. It could be that I haven't really corrected the issue that I had - I upped the P dosage to 1/2tsp every other day as it must have been too low for a while. It also could be that the attempt I made to scrub off existing algae from glass and wood caused it to settle somewhere else. Ingo |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 21:15 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | They let me go as long as I never say anything bad about Petland Discounts again - yeah right Anyway sorry to hear about the algae problems. Those protists are tough little hombres. Afterall they've been around for quite some time. What's interesting is that I have my own little war with some BBA. It's actually growing on the inside of the glass diffusor right where the bubbles come out and my co2 is cranked. I also see some bba on the rar right back glass which is far away from dissusor, so I don't see the low co2 relationship in my tank anyway, it's just not that simple, not black and white. My Scapes |
Posted 30-Mar-2006 21:36 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Week 27 - Weekly Tank Update This week the tank made me very frustrated. The algae is most certainly growing back, although I have upped the P now for 2 weeks straight to 1/2tsp 3 x a week and the Equilibrium to 1tsp per week. All other parameters stayed the same so I feel like I am at the end of my ideas. Makes me wonder if I should order a bunch of low light plants, shut off the second light row and the CO2, and live in peace from here on. I ordered 4 diffusers, 2 3-coil and 2 8-coil, they should be here Tuesday and I will hook up one 8-coil under the spraybar, maybe that will help. Nevertheless, the problem that remains is the removal of existing algae which I cannot achieve by removing the hardware as I do not want to have another major overhaul at this time. The plant order from last week is not doing too well, the crypts - as expected - show some melting, all stems of the Needle Leaf Ludgwigia rotted away and I had to remove all of them. My Star Grass on the other hand grows like mad and I had to remove the whole bunch and replant the tops. Here is a picture from yesterday before the trimming: Week 27 - Before Trimming |
Posted 02-Apr-2006 13:30 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is a picture after the trimming and water change. Nothing else has change from the previous picture, except that I removed the dead stems of Needle Leaf Lugwigia: Week 27 - After Water Change and Trimming |
Posted 02-Apr-2006 13:34 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Algae anyone? The small group of crypts (pictured is a Wendtii), Wendtii, Lucens, and Lutea all look like this. They are located to the left of the big piece of wood, with the water flowing from right to left in that part of the tank. It may have gotten so bad because I tried to scrubb of some algae last week and the water flow blew it onto these plants. Or, it got it because the plants were moved and are unstable now. But this is not the only plant, I see an increased on all my Anubias plants and the remaining Retrospiralis. Darn Algae |
Posted 02-Apr-2006 13:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Fortunately, There are still these guys here, although the female is not protecting her little cave anymore (false alarm or failure). Here is the male parading the tank: Apisto viejita male |
Posted 02-Apr-2006 13:40 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And my beloved female. She sure has nice colors, I love the contrast of her basically yellow bodie and the black markings. The occasional red and blue sprinkle looks very nice as well. Apisto viejita female |
Posted 02-Apr-2006 13:42 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And because it is so nice, here a picture of the happy couple. When they "meet" in the tank there is always some "spine twisting" mutual attention thing going on. All fins are stretched out and the fish circle each other once or twice with bent backs. Then they swim off in different directions to keep on looking for food: Apisto viejita couple |
Posted 02-Apr-2006 13:45 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | First thing I could say is that I'm glad you got those fish to take your mind off the algae. I guess there cheaper than taking another vacation. Anyway, as the song says "where do we go from here". Question? Is the algae more prolific than it was before you reduced all that mass and added the driftwood? If the answer is yes than at least there is some cause and effect. Looking at your tank now I don't see alot of fast growing fert sucking plants other than the stargrass? In my tank I get alittle bba on the blyxa because it really doesn't grow all that much in the light I have. I don't think your issue is with fert dosing. Your not doing anything that much different than Bensaf and me. My Scapes |
Posted 02-Apr-2006 17:31 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I'm glad you got those fish to take your mind off the algaeAnd on top of this they are still in the QT, so I don't even have to look at the algae tank to see them Thanks tetratech, I needed some encouragement. Yeah, the whole algae mess started after I added the driftwood, at least this form of algae. And you are absolutely right, I have only very few fast growing plants, there is the larger group of Star Grass and the groupings of Pearl Grass. I thought that the tank was at a stage where it doesn't require that many fast growers anymore, but either because of the major changes or because this phase would come much later (if ever) I am not there yet. But what can I do? I am honestly sick of spending 8 hours to redo the tank every few weeks. I am getting seriously fed up with it. If EI works only if I have fast growers in there, what good is it for? Ingo |
Posted 02-Apr-2006 23:08 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | How much light are you running? How long? Maybe you should play the game of low light all day and a high light for only a couple of hours. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 00:49 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | But what can I do? I am honestly sick of spending 8 hours to redo the tank every few weeks. I am getting seriously fed up with it. Personally I think that's part of your problem right there ! Too much changing and uprooting. As tetra said you are doing pretty much the same as us except for one thing, we rarely make big changes to our tanks. Add or remove a plant here and there but no major overhauls. If EI works only if I have fast growers in there, what good is it for? No it'll work for slow growers too. A couple of fast ones are a good check valve. But besides that I don't see the connection between fast growers and having to do big overhauls. The fast growers just need to be trimmed, nothing major there. If they need to be uprooted for the trim , just vac around that area to remove anything that may have been kicked up and replant. No biggie. But on more then one occasion you have pulled up every plant in the tank. I never never do that to a tank unless I'm tearing it down. If I want to make that big a change I do it gradually, pretty much move one group at a time. Takes longer to get the look you want but less problems in the long run. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 03:33 | |
dan76 Big Fish Always Reading Posts Posts: 343 Registered: 08-Jul-2003 | i agree with bensaf, slow and steady wins the race. in my tank with the BBA i have nearly all off the plants and only the back and side walls to go. just keep getting rid of the badly affected leaves and you will eventually win |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 08:16 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | But on more then one occasion you have pulled up every plant in the tankWell, I always left one group (at least) in its position No, but seriously: If I ever wanted to have driftwood in the tank than the first major overhaul was the only way to do it. I don't think you would believe that this could have been achieved by removing only one plant at a time. And the second major overhaul was needed to add more plant mass. And that is it, I haven't done more than these 2 overhauls (although I feel like I am doing them on a weekly basis). Thanks for the advice on "making slow changes", I will try to keep that in mind for the future. There is one thing that makes following this advice rather costly though: Almost all plants for my tank are ordered over the web (not the best local resources) and if I add only one plant at a time then I will have to pay loads of shipping until I have a new assortment. Maybe it's time to add some Wisteria from the 20G QT to my tank. Ingo |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 10:58 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, Double dog dare you to join the wisteria club! The question is will you grow tall or lay low? 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 12:59 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Too much changing and uprooting LF, for what it's worth, I believe I'm in the same boat. My algae problems started after doing major overhauls, and they certainly seem to get worse after doing major overhauls... slowing down after several water changes etc. I'm right there with ya, lookin for the answer |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 13:05 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | You guys are going to make me quote one of my favorite movies again "small moves, ellie, small moves" I think Bensaf is probably on to something with the "extreme makeover" planted tank edition. I'm also wondering if the substrate has anything to do with it. Is the lava-rock ba What I'm getting at is the ability of the tank to decompose waste making it unavailable to algae through plant suck up and bio-filteration. My Scapes |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 14:11 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Well it's more to do with stirring up mulm and NH4 from a mature substrate. Both are lovely algae treats Plus the plants stall for a bit after a big move. If you need to order lots of plants - stick them wherever there's space and then gradually move things/replace to the position you like. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 14:54 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Well it's more to do with stirring up mulm and NH4 from a mature substrate. Both are lovely algae treats. Yes, but does the amount of biofileration in the substrate neutralize this algae treat. The "honeymoon" phase of the hobby is long gone, why not pack the tank (And I mean pack, densily plant wisteria, hygro, etc and see if it makes a difference and slowly remove them "small moves" over time until you have the look you want. By the way whatever happened to Chaos Maximus? My Scapes |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 15:10 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Tetra, that's actually what I've been doing, pretty much letting the wisteria take over for a while. I wasn't able to do WCs last week because of the gourami eggs (by the way, the plant mass that the eggs were laid in got moved around by the current the other day and the bubblenest was destroyed. sad sight, but at least it let me do a water change) but I plan on doing a couple this week to pick up the excess mulm stirred up in the make-overs. As I said, i think LF and I are suffering from the same thing, because I know my EI routine is basically the same as yours, with lower numbers for the smaller tank. and BTW, I sent Chaos a PM about 2 weeks ago and never got anything back |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 15:35 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I guess I will take out the pruning scissors then tonight and clip off some Wisteria from the 20G and add it to the big tank. Also, my Alternanthera is getting too tall. I would assume that I simply can cut off the top and replant it (did that before) and leave the bottom part of the stem in to sprout again. What I don't know is if there is a rule (advice) as to the percentile to cut off, like 2/3 down the stem or something. Ingo |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 16:18 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | guess I will take out the pruning scissors then tonight and clip off some Wisteria Ya know things can get kinda boring if everyone has all this wisteria in their tanks. If anyone wants to order L.I. Wisteria and/or Willow Branches I'm selling. My Scapes |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 19:02 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Ya know things can get kinda boring if everyone has all this wisteria in their tanks Well, why do you think I don't have any in my tank right now. The last thing I want is a beautiful tank that simply would be a copy of yours, not because your tank is not very nice, but how boring would that be? Ingo |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 19:18 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Just to chime in here: wisteria is a great stem plant becaus 1.) it fills up space and 2.) because although it grows fast, it doesn't grow so fast that it becomes weed-like, like hygro polysperma. if you have a better idea for a nutrient sucker then you let me know |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 19:49 | |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 19:54 | This post has been deleted |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Hey Ingo, I noticed no-one answered your question about how much to pinch off, 2/3rds is a bit too much, the general rule of thumb for pruning land plants is 1/3. Same with roots, take about 1/3 of the roots when you re-plant, no more or the plant goes into shock/can't get enough nutrients to survive. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 03-Apr-2006 20:45 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Yes, but does the amount of biofileration in the substrate neutralize this algae treat Well mulm is just decomposing organic matter. As it de-composes it produces NH4. The decomposition is a gradual process, so no matter how good the bio filtration there will always be some NH4 as the mulm will continue to produce as it rots and the bacteria will consume what it can. Kick all this up into the water column....... But it's not just NH4 , it's other things too, decomposing organics will also be producing carbon etc, nut in the minute quantities that are useless for plants but handy for algae. An oft overlooked aspect of EI is the need to keep tank and equipment clean. There's a reason for that. I know LF does keep his stuff clean but these overhauls are kicking up a lot of stuff. I'd definately try a few months of relative stability (still ok to add plants ) and see how it works out. As for the algae on the the crypts etc, I'm not sure what the cause is. I used to have that kind of stuff years back in small quantities. But this was before I had Co2 and decent light. Never seen it in a Co2 tank. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 04-Apr-2006 04:22 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | These are some of the claims that carib-sea makes about eco complete. . Contains live Heterotrophic bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants .Unsurpassed MacroPorosity for healthy roots and bacterial efficiency. As I said, when I remove rocks and plants I see very little mess. That sounds like a logical outcome that would result from the above claims. I believe this, plus the 5" of wisteria covering 60% of my tank is helping with algae control. Also a while back when I left my filter off all nite I had no negative side effects. My Scapes |
Posted 04-Apr-2006 04:49 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | I'm sure it doesn't work much different from other subs. The important point is that the bad stuff is kept in the substrate and out of the water column. Heck Amano's powersand comes complete with Ammonia ! Should be algae/GW heaven right ? But once it's in the substrate and out of the water it's ok. I guess it's another good reason to have herbivores like shrimp and snails. Clears up that rotting vegetation real quick. I noticed in the past that has tanks got older and the mulm built up that algae was more difficult to keep at bay. Part of the reason I changed the substrate completely last year. I find too that the smaller grains of substrate like the Eco or filter sand are easier to keep clean as the mulm tends to stay on top and is easy to suck out at water change. The bigger grains seems to trap more mulm in the bigger cracks and gaps in the gravel. Notice LF has a bigger grain then us .......(that's NOT a cue to change the substrate, Ingo ) Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 04-Apr-2006 08:30 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | that's NOT a cue to change the substrate, IngoOk, I will try to restrain myself Yeah, vacuuming the mulm of the gravel was almost impossible in the past as there were plants everywhere. Since the latest overhaul (2 weeks back) I have the front open and vacuum lightly the top of the gravel (don't want to dig in too deep to NOT stirr up some gunk). Nevertheless, this open area sees fast growing green threads on the gravel. luvmykrib - Thanks for the trimming advice Ingo |
Posted 04-Apr-2006 11:39 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | So back to my lighting theory. How much for how long? It seems that a lot of your plants now aren't really fast growers or real demanding of light. Such as your cyrpts and anubias. Maybe do a low to mod light for most of the day with a kicker to high light for a couple hours in the afternoon would work better. That is if you are running high all the time. Isn't that what Ammato or whatever his name does? 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 04-Apr-2006 17:19 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Wings, Since pretty much the setup day (with a few mishaps, but none of these in the last 2 months): Lighting Period 11h - 10AM to 9PM Lights: 2x96W = 1.54wpg for 11h 4x96W = 3.07wpg for 3h starting at 1PM, ending at 4PM What do you think? Ingo |
Posted 04-Apr-2006 17:28 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Thats interesting... Oh my 40G I am running 3.25 wpg all day... well about 12 hours a day. But I have different plants than you(the big three plants in my tank are hygro's and they are weeds). Here is my resent thinking on things. (look out!) Higher light = faster growth = more ferts being taken up. So in my tank with high light for longer my plants are going to be driving full force all day and taking up more ferts in comparison to yours. I guess here is the punch line then: are you adding too much ferts for the lower light for most of the day + having a good hand full of plants that aren't sucking it up as fast(anubius and crypts?). Just probably over thinking things... but its weird that I haven't had any major algae issues(yet..) Maybe you should email Tom and ask him whats up... 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 04-Apr-2006 21:50 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Since were comparing lighting periods: Lighting Period 11h - 9:30AM to 8:30PM Lights: 1x96W = 1.33wpg (9:30AM to 11:30AM, 5:30PM to 8:30PM) Lighting Period 7h - 11:30AM to 5:30PM Lights: 2x96W = 2.67wpg for 6h My Scapes |
Posted 05-Apr-2006 03:10 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | are you adding too much ferts for the lower light for most of the day + having a good hand full of plants that aren't sucking it up as fast(anubius and crypts?). After many thousands of posts and over a year of posting can we get off the too much ferts and "not sucking up" thing It doesn't work that way. Excess ferts don't cause algae. Not all being "sucked up" doesn't cause algae. The whole point of EI is to dose an excess to make sure nothing runs out. Doesn't matter if they aren't all sucked up, no harm. Looking at too much fert and you are barking up the wrong tree and will get nowhere. You will see toxicity and dead fish long before you see any algae with excess ferts. The problem is elsewhere. Lighting seems fine. To remove existing algae without over trimming try a 3 day blackout. Should kill most of it if not all. Plants won't mind a bit, they'll be fine. After blackout continue with normal dosing, you should have a stable regime by now. Keep everything stable for a couple of months. No major changes, add plants whenever you like. See how that works out. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 05-Apr-2006 03:32 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | I strongly agree with Bensaf. I've been saying for a long time (look back at my posts) this is a waste / mass thing. Bensaf is being more specific and I believe has good insight on the "churning up" of this waste into the water column. I've been dosing 3/4 tsp no3, 5ml flourish fe everyday on top of 10ml flourish and I have not seen any hair or thread algae or any other type. Consistent routine and small moves seem to be a hugh plus in keeping things clean and stable. It's been two weeks now since I cleaned bba off my main rock and I don't see any new growth yet. It may be too soon, but I honestly think I'm beating the bba in my tank without using excel. My Scapes |
Posted 05-Apr-2006 03:48 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | It's been two weeks now since I cleaned bba off my main rock and I don't see any new growth yet. After Co2 the most important factor causing algae would be mulm - BBA can access the carbon from decomposing organics very very easily, far easier then plants. And we've already proved how important carbon is for BBA to flourish. Tetra raises another valid point. He's adding what he's adding and not getting algae. So if high FE or high P causes algae why doesn't he have it, or me ? If you suspect nutrients are the other folks adding the same amount having algae ? You can rule things out. In LF's case we can rule out nutrients (or least excess nutrients). So what does that leave ...... Light? Well can you reduce that to just running the 1.5 watts for the entire period. See what that does, that will rule that out. But I don't that's an issue really , but it can be proved one way or the other easily. Co2? Easy to prove - turn it up. That just leaves stability. Well we know how to handle that, so try and see how that works. It's another thing that can be proved/ruled out. After that there's not much left. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 05-Apr-2006 08:40 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Blackout, haven't thought about that option in a long time, so long that I actually forgot that it can help killing existing algae. Guess I get too old to remember such things . Anyway, here is a poll. I received my diffusers yesterday. I am not sure about their quality though, they are made in China. Also, why is an 8 coil better than the short one? So, the poll is as follows - Next Step should be: 1) Add plants (Wisteria and such) and leave everything else the same 2) Change to the Diffuser (8 coil) and leave everything else the same 3) Change to the Diffuser and add plants and leave everything else the same 4) Don't change anything and do a 3 day blackout first, then add plants only 5) Don't change anything and do a 3 day blackout first, then change to the Diffuser only 6) Don't change anything and do a 3 day blackout first, then change to the Diffuser and add plants 7) Other, please explain Which one of these options do you think I should attempt? Ingo |
Posted 05-Apr-2006 11:28 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Oh, I almost forgot. Here is a picture of the diffuser shipment. The larger ones state "Made in China" the smaller ones say nothing about where they have been produced, and acrually one of them seems to have a crack. Plus, I could swear that the small ones advertised had 3 coils while the ones delivered have none. I will have to check the site again. Are they any worse than the ones you guys run? Diffuser Shipment |
Posted 05-Apr-2006 11:31 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I vote #6. Kill off the bad stuff. Then start preventing it with the better CO2 and plants. BTW, the one on the left is the one that I have. Seems to be working ok but I am not overly impressed with the bubble size even after the bleach baths. Edit: Sorry about taking steps back.... 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 05-Apr-2006 14:46 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | OK, That is one vote for lights-out first and then plants/diffuser and no vote for anything else . If possible then I would like to know within the next 10 hours if there are more opinions as I would start the lights out tomorrow (Thursday) and end it three days later (Sunday). Whis way I will have the time to do a water change right away when the black-out ends. And just to know: I guess I simply unplug lights and CO2. Do I throw a blanket over the tank to shade it from even room light? Thanks in advance, Ingo |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 00:45 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Well, I don't know if I could pick a number but since algae won't grow in a blackout why not clean up the tank throughly before the blackout, this way when you turn on the lights the tank will already be pretty clean. So I would suck all the gunk, trim plants, etc. and then lights out. Then I would have wisteria or other good plants at the ready. Plant densely, you have the lights to support that. I would definitely use the diffusor. It's more efficient I believe than that big reactor, so unnecessary. The difference between your reactor and the diffusor is like the difference between an old b&W TV and a plasma. BTW - While your tank is blacked out it will give you an opportunity to scape your 29G. My Scapes |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 01:05 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I vote for no light. Don't give the aglae anything to work with. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 02:11 | |
dan76 Big Fish Always Reading Posts Posts: 343 Registered: 08-Jul-2003 | i reckon you should give the tank a clean first and then do no 6. ps i dont know if i made the 10 hr time limit but its only thurs morning here |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 02:46 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | I've tried the big Boyu one. It works just fine. The bigger one is supposed to be for bigger tanks. The marketing says the longer shape keeps the co2 in contact with water longer. pile of crap to be honest. The small one work just as good IMO. I changed to a smaller one just to take up less space but keep the Boyu as my back-up in case I drop the small one or do something else stupid. Why'd you get 4 BTW ? Are you going to split the Co2 line , run all 4 ? If running 2 try a mix of the big and small see if there's any difference or which you like best. Don't forget to fill them with water. This you will find remarkably difficult Let them soak in a container of water for a few hours/days , they'll eventually fill. For the blackout it should be complete, not even room lights so cover the tank or keep ba Personally I'd do the blackout then clean up, water change and add plants and diffusers immediately after , then regular dosing maintenance for a few weeks and see how it goes. Works ok then gradually play with your scape . Add plants whenever but removal of plants or movements of groups of plants should be steady and gradual. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 03:44 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 04:10 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | Votes For: Leave it alone. For what it's worth, (I know I'm not one of your trusted cabinet members, sitting on the fence between the light and dark side) I agree with everyone a few pages back. Too much tinkering. Let it settle into a groove for a few weeks(let Stella, obvious choice of name for your tank, get her proverbial groove back). Keep the ferts in there and the CO2 up, and wait it out. That's what I did, except I turned my CO2 down, which brings me to my other point - my home made external reactor can kick your diffusers butt. Try getting 40ppm of CO2 using less than 1 bubble per second with the diffuser. Besides, it makes for nice white noise when you have loud people in your apartment. Between the nice bubbling of my CO2 reactor, and the slurping sound of my overflow on the salt tank I have no trouble motivating myself to go number 1. I finally believe in most of the EI teachings(MOST MOST!). This is hard for me to say....I've been against it for quite some time. I remember seeing bensaf's tank right when he first logged onto FP and muttering to myself and shaking my fist at my plants. His green thumb is only bested by his ability to turn a glass box into a beautiful underwater forest scene (my thumb on the otherhand, brown as it is, is equalled by my lack of vision). My first two attempts at EI were very unsuccessful though. The first time I blame completely on inconsistant CO2, the second I went too much by the books. Now I have my own tweaks and what not of the basic formula, but I can't argue with the recent proof in my tank. It looks pretty dang good. And the plants have color. My plants looked at least as bad as yours, LF, and I never scrubbed anything(except glass and plastic things), uprooted a single plant, or blacked out the tank. I just turned the photoperiod down(more wiggle room), put the ferts in, and let it get it's groove. I'd say it's taken a month and a half just keeping things normal for it to come around. I think you should try that as well. It might be too hard for you to leave it alone though. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 06:24 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | After many thousands of posts and over a year of posting can we get off the too much ferts and "not sucking up" thing Do you think we'll ever get it? Votes For: Drives Bensaf nuts before we get it Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 06:35 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Votes For: Drives Bensaf nuts before we get it Oh Matty, they drove me nuts loooonnngggg ago. Many's the night I spent banging my head against the apartment wall 'cos it felt more productive then dealing with my "sons" (although I have a couple of daughters now ) Nice to see you pop back, when you gonna give up playing with those darn sea rocks and come back to the color and glory of the underwater forest ? Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 08:25 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Well, I was afraid that when I open my log this morning I will find a) no responses or b) varying suggestions. In good old fish/plant keeper fashion you followed path b) . I guess the first step in the learning process (for the 100th time) is patience and as such I decided not to rush things. My tank will not turn into a monster if I wait one more week and discuss the topic a little more with you folks - if you don't mind. Basically what I get is that I should add plants and switch to the diffuser. And most (except Matty) suggest a balck-out. Let me (us) think about it some more, but I guess in the meantime I should not add plants as they would potentially be exposed to the black-out before they can settle. Why did I get 4 diffusers? That is easy to answer - because I can . No, seriously, in no particular order: - I pay shipping once - I wasn't clear what the output difference between a large one and a small one was (like Bensaf, I also questioned why the coils would do anything) - I want to keep the option open to split the line (discussed somewhere like 30 pages back) and use the same diffuser type on both ends - I also played with the thought that I may use 2 different sizes on a split line - If I don't split the line then I have the option to alternate the diffuser, meaning I don't have to change them during water change and putting in a clean one takes less than a minute - Last but not least, like Bensaf I believe that having a backup cannot harm in case I drop one Matty: thanks for the input . Leaving the tank alone was pretty much what I tried to do after the first overhaul, maybe not for long enough though. I couldn't wait any longer then as the threads where really kicking into gear and threatened to take over completely. I am worried that I am at a similar stage now. During your month and a half of letting things settle - did the algae increase, and if so by how much? Dan: You sure made the 10 hour time limit . Thanks for the input, you should add your wisdom more often. Ok, thanks again for all the input (to the regular participants in this log as well), Ingo |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 11:27 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | when you gonna give up playing with those darn sea rocks and come back to the color and glory of the underwater forest ? Ahhh, I think I'm hooked, unfotunately. Check out this new coral I got(none of my plants come close to that color): ooooh, aahhhhh During your month and a half of letting things settle - did the algae increase, and if so by how much? Some algae increased, like the green puffball type, and the BBA. I also had some green spaghetti type stuff, it looked like I accidentally dropped some algae(chaetomorpha or brillo pad) from my "sea rocks" into my planted tank. I've never seen that in a freshwater tank before(and I thought I'd seen ALL the algae). It was pretty easy to pull out, and I don't see it anymore. The last week saw the decrease of those, with only the stubborn BBA still holding on in a few places. If I would just go in there and trim it out it would probably be gone forever. Might do that saturday on water change day. Unfortunately (for your knowledge purposes) the thread algae disappeared really quick. Maybe in two weeks. I'm sure it was a lack of nitrates that caused them in my tank. Coulda been a lack of PO4 or anything else, the tank totally bottomed out, but I've never had a problem with that particular algae and I've always had nitrates, up until I traded my angels. If I were you I'd turn the photoperiod down to 9 hours with 2 lights and 2 hours with 4 lights. Keep up with the dosing and water changes for a couple weeks. If there's no improvement in algae(the plants will probably suffer a little), I won't argue with the blackout. IMO though, it's not a cure to the problem. It's a quick fix, and the algae will come back. They've been around long enough to be able to survive that sort of thing. Especially for only 3 days. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 06-Apr-2006 16:49 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Check out this new coral I got(none of my plants come close to that color): Nah, looks like an infection I once had, a dose of penicillin cleared it right up I have a friend here who owns the biggest marine aquarium shop in Indonesia (he's a westerner too) , tons of great stuff. Prices are unreal, you'll cry at how cheap things are and of course everything is caught locally so it's "fresh" as fresh can be almost the same as popping out for quick scuba and collecting your self. BTW $1 = 9,000 Indonesian Rupiah www.aquarium-laut.com I've been tempted to give it a shot but don't have enough time. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 03:49 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | Dang, I saw some stuff for 10usd that would be 5-6 times that much here. Not fair man. I think I'm going to move out there. I didn't happen to see any blasto's like mine though. They aren't too common, I've been waiting around for months for some like these. Nah, looks like an infection I once had, a dose of penicillin cleared it right up Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 04:46 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | No other comment to Bensaf's infections So, tomorrow during the water change I will exchange the reactor with the diffuser. I envision to place it rather low on the left glass panel, in the middle between back and front. Way up on that panel sits the spray bar. I think the bubbles should get caught in the current from that bar and be dispersed throughout the tank. Sounds right? Ingo |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 11:00 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Bensaf, I am so going to have to use that one at work on the SW geeks! LF, I think you are on the right track. What are you thinking for the black out or no black out? 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 14:46 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Wings, Good that you bring up the blackout again, as we hopefully still have Matty's attention: Matty - I take it that you don't think the blackout would do anything good at all. I understand what you mean when you say that algae is around for quite a while and will come back when the situation is right again. The question I have to you now is: Do you mean literally that the same algae is coming back or that new algae will be back because conditions haven't changed? My solemn reason for the blackout would be to get rid of existing algae as I cannot remove my hardscape without making a major mess again. Changing to another CO2 distribution method (diffuser) and upping my P are the counter measures taken to make the environment more hostile to new algae. Under these conditions, do you still think that a blackout would be useless and if so then why? Ingo |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 14:56 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | What I mean is that under no light conditions you will kill algae, yes. This might help you get an edge on it. I've only heard a blackout work long term a couple times, and that was because the tank conditions had changed before the blackout in a way such as to discourage their growth permanently. In those cases, had they not used the blackout, I beleive patience would have served just fine, because conditions were growing harsh for the algae. Just my opinion, but it's a quick fix, a band-aid, duct tape. There is no way to eliminate algae from your tank. There's some in mine(obviously). There's some in bensaf's tank. Amano has it, just like everyone else. It's waiting for the right conditions to spring up. The blackout will also have an effect on your plants. They won't like the dark either, but they won't die(hopefully). However, they will stunt a little, stop growing, and what do we know happens when plants stop growing? The door is wide open for algae, it's just about who recovers quicker. If the conditions are right for plants, you get a leg up on the algae. If the conditions are the same, the outcome is the same as before. If in fact, the conditions favor algae, a blackout can be bad news, and I've had a costomer experience that, didn't sound pretty. The best thing about working at an LFS is that you can give people the facts and some will take it one way, and others will go a different route. You get to see what happens under a lot of different circumstances in a very short amount of time. It's like having 100 tanks to play with(but you don't have to pay for it). People that tend to make headway are the people that turn the lights down a notch(able to turn up later bit by bit), add more plant mass, more CO2, balanced nutrients(it's very hard to explain the thoughts behind EI in 5-10 minutes), and do water changes regularly. I had a guy with a 55 tank and the 4 foot coralife fixture(I admit that I forget the wattage maybe 130?), no CO2 and dirty fish. He really wanted live plants so I pointed him to a bunch of types and told him the more plants you get the easier it will be, and to get a lot of fast growers. Against my wishes, he picked maybe 6 different plants, mostly slow growers. He went home and set the lights on for 12 hours. We all know what happened here. So he comes back and asks why it happened. Good guy. Most costomers throw fits and make children cry(yes, some lfs workers don't know everything, but the average costomer is far worse than any lfs worker who doesn't know the scientific name and max growth of every fish in the store). After explaining things a little I sent him home with 10 bunches of stem plants and some anacharis. When he got home he turned the lights down to 9 hrs. He thought the anacharis was the ugliest thing he'd ever seen. Now it's his favorite joke, something like it's growing out of the tank and eating the pets and different pet shop of horrors type stuff. Nowadays(2 months later) I ask him how his algae is doing and all he has to complain about is the anacharis. -The End EDIT: Oh, and I'm not suggesting you go get a ton of anacharis, though it would probably have a good effect, it's just the plant mass reliable growth thing. EDIT: And by the "they've been around long enough" I meant the billions of years of evolution thing(not in your tank). Algae and cockroaches are prepared for armageddon. We can't kill it, only maybe contain it. You know if people can't kill something, it's hardy. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 16:13 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Well Matty, You for sure presented some very convincing and encouraging point And I also understood what you meant with algae being around a long time (I already understood the first time you said it). That is exactly the reason why I decided not to rush the situation with the blackout last Wednesday night. Input like yours is too valuable to come to late. Thanks again, Ingo EDIT: Oh, and before I forget: this customer with the plant/algae issue, he thinks anacharis (egeria najas/densa) is the ugliest plant? Has he seen Hornwort? |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 16:34 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | And I also understood what you meant with algae being around a long time (I already understood the first time you said it) oops I misread your post, I thought you thought it mattered how long it had been in you tank....my mistake. That is exactly the reason why I decided not to rush the situation with the blackout last Wednesday night. Input like yours is too valuable to come to late. Well thanks, and I'm glad I checked in here when I did then. I just think there's a better way to get things done, as long as the plants are still healthy and growing, that's less risky and damaging. You can always try the blackout down the road if you can't get things fixed. BTW is there any flow/filtration on the right side of your tank? Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 16:48 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | EDIT: Oh, and before I forget: this customer with the plant/algae issue, he thinks anacharis (egeria najas/densa) is the ugliest plant? Has he seen Hornwort? Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 16:49 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | BTW is there any flow/filtration on the right side of your tank? Not currently. Twice I used to have a powerhead on that side blowing water to the left. My assumption was that maybe this side is stale and that's why I have problems, but: - It did never make a difference either way, even when the powerhead was humming for weeks - I have at least as much algae on the left than the right - I kind off like the idea (tell me if it is a bad one) that there are areas in the tank with less current as some fish may like to hang out without having to paddle the whole time. Interestingly, I have usually as many fish on the left than the right, except when they see me - then they all come to the left where I feed them. Oh, off topic. In recent days I have noticed an increase in Espei active schooling, as in patrolling the tank as a gang. I attribute it to the fact that the younger ones are now old enough to be fully accepted by the seniors and that I have 30 fish less, aka some space to actually swim to where there are no other fish. Ingo |
Posted 07-Apr-2006 18:15 | |
bratyboy2 Big Fish Posts: 355 Kudos: 340 Votes: 1 Registered: 21-Apr-2004 | wow i must say this tank has been threw so much and looks great. NICE JOB LF!! i do have to say that i cant wait till the dwarf cichlids get in there...hope u get some babies here soon! i think maybe a small addition of some pink on the other side of the tank would be nice( by the anubias) or placing the rotala in the middle...in my opinion it would be more of an eye catcher that way. is all the algae gone now besides the small spot you like? well LF im glad to see the tank is comming along(and cant wait to see what more comes to be)i saved the one picture of the before and after together as my background on my computer...you have inspired me to make my 29-gallon( yes much smaller) tank a beautiful display tank for some of the smaller rainbows and such...GET BACK SOON WANNA HERE MORE!!! |
Posted 08-Apr-2006 06:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | bratyboy2, What a nice comment. You made me the biggest compliment I can get, being an inspiration to others is a major accomplishment for me. And if your tank looks prettier in the end than mine then I will have to kill you . Actually, I will add some pink (purple) to the left of the Anubias group today as I will have to trim the Alternanthera on the way right and the tops go to the left to grow out. You mention that I should put the Rotala in the middle. I don't think I have Rotala in my tank since quite a while, which plant do you mean? Sadly, the algae is not gone, read through the last maybe 30 entries (since the last weekly update) to get all the details. But I am working on it . Thank you so much again, Ingo |
Posted 08-Apr-2006 11:30 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I just finished my weely water change, pictures of it will be posted tomorrow as I have to wait to take them until all the bubbles are gone. I have overall more discouraging news with regards to the algae. When I looked closely through the tank to detect dead leaves etc., I discovered that the driftwood is beginning to be covered with BBA, loads of small gray bushels in particular on the upper half of the wood. This is so demotivating. I also added the glass diffuser, it took me about half an hour until I finaly had all the air out, there was only a tiny bit left. I started it up after the water change and had to move it a few times until it was positioned that most bubbles will be caught in the current of the spray bar. Now, in this position it is a little angled, the top is more towards the left glass panel than the bottom. Is that a problem? Also, I noticed that now I have gas and not water in the upper region of it, down to the uppermost coil. Is that a problem? And, bubbles do not come out from the entire ceramic plate but only from part of it. Again, is that a problem? Cheers, your frustrated Ingo Diffuser in action |
Posted 08-Apr-2006 23:44 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Hey LF BBA on wood: I have/had that for a long time now, but in your case if the wood isn't removable (practical) than you'll have to wait to you beat it back. I would just stay on course and ignore it. Keep co2 way up and plant densly. Keep feeding minimal, the fish will be fine. Mine has definitely slowed or stopped since I don't see new bba growth on my rocks Glass Diffusor: It's normal when you first start to use it to only have bubbles coming thru from part of it. As it's (primeed) the whole thing should work. My Scapes |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 04:19 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I have been running my GD for a few weeks now and it is still only coming from part of it. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 05:40 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks you two for the input on the glass diffuser and tetratech also for the info on the BBA. I tried to get a picture of it but there were still too many bubbles (may have been CO2 bubbles from the diffuser already) to get a clear shot of it. Weekly Tank Update - Week 28 This week was more about discussions of a potential black-out then it was about tank changes. Not much had happened, except that I observed the thread algae is still multiplying and to top it off yesterday's discovery of large numbers of tiny BBA bushels on the driftwood. Certain plants in the tank are still growing strong, as usual leading the way are the Star Grass (grew back to the top) and the Pearl Grass. Maybe I should get more plants that have the word "Grass" in their common name as they seem to be doing excellent in my tank . I also observe new leaves on the Anubias Nana and Barteri group, it seems they are doing ok now after I treated them so badly during my last major overhaul (out of the water for hours). I trimmed two stems of the Alternanthera and planted them on the left, also two small bushels of Wisteria have been added from the 20G (couldn't get more out, growth in that tank is really slow). The mother crypts that have been added a week and a half ago still show signs of melting, in particular the red ones. The glass diffuser was also added to replace the reactor. I am not sure, but last evening, about 4 hours after the change, the top half of the tank was full of bubbles. This could still be from the water change, although I have never observed this previously. Today, I will have to keep an eye open for the ph. I also upped my dosage of Baking Soda, without measuring I would say that it should be around 4 to 5 by now, I will check later. Also, I upped the dosage of Equilibrium to about 1.5tsp, I figured it cannot harm, right? On to the pictures. First I will show 4 full tank shots in 3 week gaps since I changed the tank to contain the driftwood. In addition, I only have 2 detail shots to show, I didn't feel like bothering you with more details on algae-covered plants, you have seen enough of these already. So, here is the tank 9 weeks ago right after the driftwood had been added: Tank 9 Weeks Ago |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 12:11 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | 3 Weeks later, all plants seemed (from the distance) to be still going strong. But when closer observed, the Macandra started to stall, the Retrospiralis - previously split from one plant plug into multiple - started to have dying leaves and thread algae, and the Anubias on the right became covered in threads. Also, more and more threads were observed on the other surfaces, like glass, gravel, and wood: Tank 6 Weeks Ago |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 12:15 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Another 3 weeks later, the tank had seem its next major overhaul. This was an attempt to reduce the by now rampant growth of the thread algae and to reduce the number of dying plants, in particular the Retrospirals but also most very tall Narrow Leaf Saggitarias. In this stage the tank had probably the lowest plant mass since maybe week 2 after setup. Guess it makes sense that algae started to have a field day. Tank 3 Weeks Ago |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 12:19 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is the tank now from last night, after the water change and general maintenance. I like the way the trimmed tops of the Alternanthera create a color pocket on the left side. Would be nice if they settle and I could create a whole group of them over there (not too tall though). The Pearl Grass also could have used a trimming, but I decided to let it grow to maintain more plant mass. These days, the tank is less about beauty then it is about not losing it completely. Tank Now |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 12:24 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now on to the two close-ups. Nothing special really. The first one shows one of the two small Wisteria bushels that have been added. You can see the bubbles on the Pearl Grass next to it and on the Wisteria itself. I don't know if they are still from the water change or already the result of the switch to the diffuser: Tiny Wisteria |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 12:27 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | The last picture for now shows the left 4th of the tank. Please observe how high up I have placed the diffuser. I initially had it lower but then the bubbles would hit the spray bar more on its back and go to the surface directly, without being washed through the tank. Also, you can see the the diffuser's top is closer to the left than the bottom (the left edge of the picture is the glass). I had to make sure that the plate area is not too close to the glass, for the same reasons as above. BTW, the holders for the diffuser are normal air line sucktion cups and don't really seem to fit the diameter of the glass tube. They barely can reach half around the tube. In the front of the tank you can see the Pearl Grass, followed by the new Wisteria, and to the right the thread algae covered crypts. The Ludwigia in the back is becoming stronger, it also was grown from small clippings of the 20G. In the midground is a red Wendtii and the tops from the Alternanthera: Left Tank with Diffuser |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 12:34 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Tanks looking good Algae is certainly not obvious from the pics. What you are seeing with the diffuser is all normal. You just running one ? Checked Co2 yet ? I'd be interested in how one of them does in such a big tank ! Maybe check the far side of t5ank too to make sure it's spreading out nicely. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 15:54 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | bensaf, Thanks for the input. Yeah, maybe I should specialize in taking pictures from far away . I haven't measured anything yet, but I will do within the next 30 min. The lights in the tank went on about 30 min ago and I already seem to observe (or maybe I have noticed it before) that the Rainbows are huddling together, without moving much around. The far side of the tank appears to actually get more bubbles then the side on which the diffuser sits. The spray bar current blows them all over to the other side where there is little current. Makes me quite nervous, this diffuser thing. I would almost assume that I will have to reduce the bubble rate, which now is still almost a solid stream. Thanks again, Ingo EDIT: Ah - and congrats on the 10 Gold Starts, Bensaf /:' |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 16:29 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | OK, Just measured the tank parameters and I came up with results that seem a little off: KH - maybe 4.5 dH - seems about right given that I added more Baking Soda than usual ph - 7 - that is the odd one as 7 is my tab ph. Could it be that my water change from yesterday had raised the ph although the reactor and later the diffuser were humming all day? I will check again in a while just to make sure I got the right reading. Here is a shot of the way right side of the tank, top area. All the white dots are CO2 bubbles: CO2 on the right |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 17:01 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, I agree, I like the pocket of color you have on the left I personally would like to see the red plant on the right moved inward somewhat. don't make the corners any higher. Whenever you can, trim! Doesn't trimming intiate even more growth (one step back, two step forward) that will get the plants sucking up more. By the evening my entire water surface is a pretty much solid mass of tiny bubbles. It made me nervous at first but I see no effect on the fish. Remember co2 doesn't displace o2. My Scapes |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 17:34 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech, Thanks for the confirmation on the diffuser stuff, I am glad that I am not the only worried one when setting up the bubble machine. About moving the right hand Alternanthera more to the middle - maybe some day, but for now things are only being moved to add new plants for extra suckage of Nutrients . I just measured the ph again, 4 hours later than the last time. It is now at about 6.8 with a slight tendency to less. Now the main lights in the tank will come on. Babies, let's grow Ingo |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 19:44 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | So, another 4 hours later than the last test, I did another two - one on each side of the tank. Both panned out with a ph of about 6.6 maybe a little less. This should give me about 33ppm of CO2, that would be pretty much where I would like it to be. If I remember then I will test one more time around 9, just before lights out. Ingo EDIT: Oh, and I do not see any bubbles on the plants. |
Posted 09-Apr-2006 23:40 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, It is really tricky getting the right setting with your CO2. When I first got my diffuser I had tons of bubbles too! Since then I have turned it down a bit because I was getting my ppm up to around 50 or so. Now I don't seem to have the bubble thing going on. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 10-Apr-2006 00:27 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks Wings, Last night I checked my ph again and it seemed to have stabilized at around 6.6, meaning I still had a CO2 saturation of around 33ppm. This is more than I had before because, albeit I frequently had this ph, I upped the KH by about 1dH. The thing that puzzles me about these observations is that I cannot explain why my ph was 7 in the morning. I had CO2 running the day before, except for the maybe 1.5 hours during maintenance. Given that 7 is my tab value, I would assume that my ph at lights out must have been lower than that. Now, having had 7 in the morning, wouldn't that mean that my plants haven't produced any CO2 all night long? Or did they and the surface agitation from the spray bar made it all evaporate? Very confusing I also sat back last night and observed the fish for a while, just to make sure they are ok. Well, all seems fine to me, although they all stayed mostly in the lower parts of the tank. It is always nice to see the different characters of my fishies, the Pearls slowly parading, the Rainbows playing chase with each other and then regrouping with the Pearls for a while to rest, the Espei forming a school of about 15 to 20, going from left to right (or the other way), finding there more of their kind and breaking out of school mode, and the Otos - well they are eating . I cannot count how many Espei are in there, but for sure still enough that the there is basically not one area of the tank where there are none. Maybe I should think about trading in another 20 or so. Ingo |
Posted 10-Apr-2006 11:09 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Makes me quite nervous, this diffuser thing. I would almost assume that I will have to reduce the bubble rate, which now is still almost a solid stream. Well doesn't everything worry you Ingo ? Actually you ,ay have to use less gas I certainly found the diffusers so efficient I had to drop the bubble rate a little. Measuring pH just before lights on is the worst time to test. Just after lights on at best. Even at over 30ppm once the gas is switched off the Co2 in the tank will evaporate in a few hours going into equilibrium with the athmosphere. The plants don't produce that Co2 at night ! So testing pH to calculate Co2 content is worthless before lights on, yes the tank water would be at almost tap level. If you are hitting 30ppm at lights off after a day of the plants using the Co2 then you know you are good. Good to see the diffusers work on even such a large tank. EDIT: Ah - and congrats on the 10 Gold Starts, Bensaf Thanks . only took 2 years At least I won't have to do that darn quiz again Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 10-Apr-2006 11:36 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | At least I won't have to do that darn quiz again That's how I feel as well. Now let's see when tetratech reveals his "real" star count. I bet you not before he has 10 as well. About the ph test. The first one yesterday in the morning was right after lights on (maybe 20 min into the lighting period). Interesting, so you say the CO2 that is produced by plants would not read as a measurable ph influence? Can you explain that a little more? And about the worrying: You know me so well . I tjust makes my day when I have something to worry about. And my tank as never failed me so far. Ingo |
Posted 10-Apr-2006 11:58 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | I tjust makes my day when I have something to worry about. And my tank as never failed me so far. I think Ingo secretly sabotages his own tank, so he has something to worry about. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 10-Apr-2006 18:00 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Yeah, I sabotage my tank (and my spelling ) on purpose, you found me out, Matty . I wish you were right. The thought that some people may not take my concerns serious anymore (may I say cry wolf) has for sure crossed my mind. But bear with me, I am really trying to have an algae and problem free tank, just like the rest of you. Ingo |
Posted 10-Apr-2006 19:06 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | Hey Ingo Your tank is looking great. I can see that I am not the only worry wort though Cheers TW |
Posted 11-Apr-2006 00:44 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Interesting, so you say the CO2 that is produced by plants would not read as a measurable ph influence? Can you explain that a little more? They just don't produce enough Co2 to make a noticable difference. Heck if they did we wouldn't need these fancy gas tanks, every aquarium with plants would have 30ppm of Co2 in the morning ! Co2 dissipates pretty quickly. Turn off your gas and see how quickly the pH goes back to tap value. Even at 30ppm it only takes a ciuple of hours to go back to 2ppm. That's why we have to keep it flowing during the lighting period. On your non Co2 planted tanks - does the ph drop by 1 full point during the night? No, right ? Maybe by 0.1 or 0.2 this pretty much teels you how much co2 the plants produce at night. About 2-3ppm. Also shows you how pointless the "should I run my co2 at night" "should I run an airstone at night"discussions are !!! Long story short, testing pH before gas/lights on is fruitless if your purpose is to check Co2. You need to wait a few hours for the gas to kick in, just before lights out is the ideal time to test. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 11-Apr-2006 03:48 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks Robyn for letting me know that I am not the only one of my kind here . I was even worried about you running this marathon. How did that go? Thanks Bensaf for the info on the CO2 at night. I would assume that the ph swing at night in natural waters depends, besides the plant mass, on the water flow, meaning still waters should have a larger swing (down) than flowing water, right? This also made me realize that we, in out tanks, actually turn the natural ph swing upside-down. While in nature the ph should be higher during the day, it is the time when we lower it. Different topic: Last evening I went to the LFS and got lucky and purchased 6 small stems of Wisteria, plus one other plant that I would like you to help me on a positive ID. I currently just "threw" them in the tank, it was late, and will properly plant them tonight. I most likely will take out my Red Rubin Sword and put them in its place. That plant received a heavy trimming (during my masive make-over) because so many older leaves where full of threads. Also, it went through a quick bleach dip at the same time. Now, most leaves are really thin and algae infested yet again. Only the new growth is ok, and it takes up a lot of real estate that I need more now for fast growers. Anyway, here is a shot of 4 parked Wisteria stems Parked Wister I |
Posted 11-Apr-2006 11:11 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here are the other 2. I actually think that they don't look all that bad in this spot. But I know that soon they would grow so big that you cannot see the other plants behind it anymore (and shading would set in as well). Parked Wister II |
Posted 11-Apr-2006 11:12 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Last but not least, here is a shot of the plant that I mentioned earlier. I bought two stems that were labeled "Narrow leaf Hygro". I believe the plant is Hygrophila augustifolia, is that correct? Either way, what do you know about it? I would assume it is a fast grower, it is a hygro. How do you replant/trim this plant? Do you know of any problems with it? Thanks in advance, Ingo EDIT: Oh - and don't forget to admire the Espei Hygrophila augustifolia ??? |
Posted 11-Apr-2006 11:15 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | I bought two stems that were labeled "Narrow leaf Hygro". I believe the plant is Hygrophila augustifolia, is that correct? Either way, what do you know about it? I would assume it is a fast grower, it is a hygro. How do you replant/trim this plant? Do you know of any problems with it? You should pay more attention to my pics Yes it's Augustifolia. Been in every tank I've ever had. Probably my most favorite plant. Nothing but good things to say about it. It's a very easy very fast grower and a stunningly beautiful plant. Give it lots of room !The leaves can get to almost a foot long. One thing I really love about it - it branches so easily. It will produce 2 new branches at almost every single internode, so it becomes very very bushy quickly. Very thick almost woody stems. It grows so fast, branches so easily that propogation is adoddle. You could literally have enough to fill the entire tank in a couple of months. You'll be throwing away buckets of the stuff. Give it a location it deserves. It appreaciates a bit of flow so the leaves can sway outwards and catch the light. Not overyly important in terms of growth but brings out the best in looks. The leaves are a lovely deep green with a bright silver underside. Best used to really fill out a corner section or as big solitary display. It's a magnificent plant and needs to be allowed to shine. Just to remind you , mine is filling out the entire left corner in the pic and this was just after atrim ! Started out with one little stem. I think it was pretty much the first plant I ever bought years ago and there it is still going strong, will survive anything!!! Great indicator for Nitrate or potassium. The lower leaves never drop off unless nitrate is low, also if potassium is low it will be the first to show holes in the old leaves. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 11-Apr-2006 15:46 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | You should pay more attention to my pics But in my defense, I have to say that you did not give yours a prominent spot, so it wasn't easy to detect. Also, it is not that easy to remember the name of the about 50 plant species that you collected just in that one tank . Thanks Bensaf , I guess I made a good purchase then. I like the way ot looks as well and will put it in the spot where the Red Rubin is right now (as I don't want to uproot too many plants for this latest addition. Also in that area will be the new Wisteria stems. I hope it is not too crowded there. We will know more about it tonight - in any case, there is no way that I will make these additions another major replant event, they will have to fit somewhere convenient. Ingo |
Posted 11-Apr-2006 16:28 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Ok you're forgiven. It should work well in that spot. It contrasts pretty well with Wisteria as you can see above. On the trimming - you can do it either way. It'll branch out no matter what you do. At this stage I usually pull up and trim the bottom. It rpoduces really thick white roots at the bottom section of the stem above the gravel which can get messy. Never seen a plant produce so may roots so quickly. Also I'll usually have a few nice sized branches at the bottom (there will be branches all over - but obviously the lower ones will be the oldest and therefore the biggest/strongest)that I can use elsewhere. Pearls like crazy too. I think you'll like this one. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 12-Apr-2006 03:56 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks Bensaf I didn't do the small replant last night, mostly for two reasons: a) I want to do it when I have the chance to vacuum that area as well (avoid major mulm mess), so just before the next water change fits better b) I was simply to lazy So, Saturday it is Ingo |
Posted 12-Apr-2006 15:15 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Ok, 2 days have gone passed since I added the Hygrophila augustifolia to my tank (in temp spot) and I notice the first changes. On stem has lost the lowest leaves (1 section = 2 leaves) completely while the other has withering (disintegrating) leaves beginning at the tips (also only the lowest section). Can this be already a sign of lack of Nitrates in my tank? I would more likely assume that this is damage still done from being in the LFS tank and the transport in general. What do you think? Another thing that happened to me in the past, and that I feel has never been completely resolved, was the complete elimination of Duckweed in my tank. I still don't understand how that could have happened. I get the low nutrient part (as I may have reduced my P too much, but never to 0), but doesn't this plant thrive in almost all conditions while most other plants would have long died? Do you have any idea? Ingo |
Posted 13-Apr-2006 14:25 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | I doubt, even if your tank was low that you see anything so quickly. More then likely were suffering in the shop anyway. It should perk up just watch for new growth. Duckweed I've never had and know very little about it, but yeah I heard it was practically indestructible. This happened while you were away, correct ? Here's astrange theory, whoever was looking after the tank thought they were dropped leaves and scooped them out thinking they were doing you a favor. I don't think nutrients would get so low as to kill the duckweed but not show problems on the other plants. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 13-Apr-2006 15:46 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Nah Bensaf, It did not happen while I was away. I used to frequently thin out the amount of Duckweed that I have in the tank, you know - the shading and such. After I thinned it out one time, and I removed quite a bit and left only a small group (hard to catch these buggers in such a large tank with the current and such), it never started to re-populate. It simplygot less and less and within about two to three weeks dwindled to nothing. Sure did I have problems at the same time, this started shortly after my algae problems broke out (thread), which started in turn after I added the new driftwood and messed with the tank like a madman in the process. I am beginning to wonder if certain levels of the water column contain different "mixtures" of stuff. Like could it be that my messing around (or even the driftwood) had poisoned the surface to a point that the plants would die? Oh, on the other hand: I never saw the leaves getting yellow or something, they just dissapeared. Can it be that Espei, Rainbows, and Pearls eat this stuff and I had reduced the amount to so little that it couldn't reproduce faster than the fishies ate it? You know what, that sounds almost reasonable. Ingo |
Posted 13-Apr-2006 16:01 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Maybe your oto's thought it was tasty one day so the stoped eating your algae and starting eating the duck weed...... Just messing around.... 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 13-Apr-2006 21:48 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Being a little bored, I decided to add a few pictures just for the fun of it. Number one is of male Espei. I know you have seen pictures like this before, but they have a habit of zooming into focus just at the right time: Male Espei |
Posted 14-Apr-2006 23:45 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And if one picture of an Espei is not enough, how about a picture with, well you count them Here is the majority of the Espei tribe in one shot: Espei School |
Posted 14-Apr-2006 23:47 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | |
Posted 14-Apr-2006 23:47 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now on to non-moving entities This plant has proven very hardy, is only a little influenced by the algae, has grown in shade and light, doesn't invade the rest of the tank, it is just there. Isoetes Lacustris I can really recommend it Isoetes Lacustris |
Posted 14-Apr-2006 23:50 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | NowherMan6 Well, I haven't counted them yet, I was hoping that Wings will do this for me But I have one more photo. It shows the Star Grass group in a close-up. This plant grows so fast that I will have to replant ever other week. But it is very nice. Star Grass - Heteranthera zosterifolia |
Posted 14-Apr-2006 23:53 | |
jbe0404 Hobbyist Posts: 56 Kudos: 47 Votes: 70 Registered: 17-Jan-2006 | I just wanted to say that this is one of the most beautiful tanks tanks I have ever seen. That school of rasboras is very impressive. Keep up the spectacular work on this tank. |
Posted 15-Apr-2006 16:28 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | jbe0404, Wow, I am flattered, thank you so much. But if you find this tank beautitiful then maybe you should look at tetratech's 72G and bensaf's tank pictures (spread out, one is even in my log on page 76 - I hope you didn't think that was my tank ). I will still have to go a long way before I am happy with my tank, but keep on checking in and let me know what you think. Thanks again, Ingo |
Posted 15-Apr-2006 22:35 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I will count them for a doller a fish. Deal? Ok Great! 49 of them... thats $49! Thanks! Great pictures too! Love the one of the school! Very nice! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 04:48 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | Great pictures Ingo. I love that big school of Espei. Makes me want to run out straight away & buy another 10 of their cousins (rasboras) for my tank. Lucky it's Easter Sunday & the shops are shut, or that's what I'd be doing right now. Dumb question, I know. But, how do I tell the difference between a male & a female rasbora. I've figured it out on my platys & guppys, but not my rasboras or my rams. I hope I have some of both & they breed. Cheers TW |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 07:58 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Wings - Thanks, this means that you owe me only $201 now, as the fee for the entertainment in my monster log is $250 Robyn - Thanks for the compliments. To answer your gender questions (not dumb at all, BTW). Somewhere in tetratech's log are great pictures of a male and a female Bolivian Ram. I think the female get the pinkish belly when she is in breeding mode. Sexing adult (and late juvenile) Espei is rather easy as the males are rather red than orange. Otherwise, the general body shape of females is rounder than males, which are a little more streamlined. On to the usual Sunday Topic: Weekly Tank Update - Week 29 Not too much has happended this week, I purchased a few stems of Wisteria and 2 stems of Hygrophila augustifolia, mostly for the purpose to increase the plant mass with fast growers. The amount of algae had not declined. Before I even started my water change this weekend I stood in front of my tank for at least 20 min because I couldn't figure out where to start. The goal was to incorporate these new plants without messing up the whole tank yet again. In addition, the really fast growing Star Grass needed a bottom trimming, in itself a major act because the whole group has to come out first. Well, somehow I did it, and I don't think it was too bad. I removed the Red Rubin sword (sorry) as it was one of the algae magnets. Also, almost all Cyperus Helferis had to go, my 10 min bleach bath a few weeks back left them rather sick and they were re-invested in no time (or the leaves died and melted into the water column). That was a bummer as it took me a while to get this species. On to some pictures. As I have a few details to show, full shots will only compare last week to this week. Here is the tank last weekend: Last Week |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 12:42 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is the tank now this weekend after the water change and all the other things. The Star Grass group has been expanded to the right to take the space created by the removed Helferi. The Hygrophila augustifolia is in the spot previously occupied by the Red Rubin (and one stem to the right of it. The Wisteria stems have been spread out in the remaining gaps, I know that this is maybe not the prettiest solution, but I hope it will be efficient. |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 12:46 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now we go on to some detail pictures. The first segment is committed to fish, the second to plants. Here is a close-up of a male Rainbow. I know the quality is not the best, but they showed their nice colors more than usual. I guess this water change must have been special. Male Dwarf Rainbow |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 12:52 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | The next two pictures demonstrate how peaceful my tank is. It is not uncommon for the various species to hang out together. This is a good thing as there wouldn't be too much space for a species to be on their own as the Espei are everywhere . Here is the Rainbow joining the Espei: Rainbow and Espei |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 12:54 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | The same counts for the Pearls as well. Although they prefer the Rainbows over the Espei as tank buddies. Here is the male Pearl showing the rest of the group who is the boss in the tank. It will be interesting to see how these dynamics change when the Apistos are introduced. The Boss |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 12:58 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | On to the plants. Actually, the first picture is about algae. I was finally able to get a good shot of the BBA on the driftwood. This photo sums up all my problems. The center gives you a nice few of the thread algae and the rest of the branches are covered in small bushels of BBA. Interestingly, it seems that in particular the regions of the driftwood that are exposed during the water change are covered by it. It may be a coincidence though, but I had 2 or 3 small bushels of them on the tip of my rock in "Rock Valley" which also was exposed during water changes. Not wanting togo through another week long Excel round with the tank, I dripped some Excel on the branches during low tide (water change). I doubt that it will help, but it was worth a try. My Friends - The Algae |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 13:05 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a picture of the left side of the tank. A few of the Ludwigia stems needed some trimming as well. I replanted the tops where their was an opening. Now I have about 10 plant species in this section, probably too many but I am not willing to concern myself with too many style issues as the priorities have shifted from style to algae war. Left side |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 13:09 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a close-up of the new right side. Yeah, I know that it looks a little like a junge again, but we need the nutrient suckers. Also, the Alternanthera in the back corner will grow taller again and become more visible. I am very courious how the Hygrophila augustifolia will develop in this spot, maybe I will have to move it further into the back at some point. Right Side |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 13:13 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | In case I haven't mentioned it before, I find the Amano Pearl Grass to be very versatile. It is one of the two plants that do really well in my tank (the other being Star Grass). You can let it grow tall, trim it shorter, replant the tops, remove the whole "bush" and trim the bottoms off. I use the pant mostly as a filler, small pockets here and there. But in the left and right side I use them as larger groups. I would assume that they serve as fry hideouts as well. Amano Pearl Grass |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 13:17 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is the last shot for now, the new middle section. As you can see, the Star Grass group has been expanded to the right, behind the Wendtii and various Anubias types. The other change to the Star Grass group is that I didn't make it as deep as it used to be. The parts between the branches have been filled with some Wisteria. Never mind the current height differences within the Star Grass group as I had to use the plants that where available to me. I would assume that in no later than 2 weeks it all is going to be grown in. Thanks for looking, Ingo The Star Grass - Middle Tank Group |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 13:22 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | Happy Easter....if you in fact celebrate it. If not, good day to ya. Interestingly, it seems that in particular the regions of the driftwood that are exposed during the water change are covered by it. It may be a coincidence though, Yep coicidence that the peices of driftwood closest to the light are also exposed to the air during a water change... I found that in my tank any surfaces that were not covered with plants got bba(along with some slow growing plants). My heater, the end of the driftwood, the filter intake and output all got it. The filter intake got it the worst, and just so happened to be exposed during water changes. That means nothing except for the fact that it was closest to the light. I bet you haven't turned the light cycle down a bit yet. I found this really worked for me in conjunction with making sure that nutrients are really there in the amounts you want them to be. In my case I used reliable test kits to give me a good idea, though people on the light side seem not to trust them. I have since turned the lights back up without sign of algae. I bet if I turned it all the way back up all at once I would have had trouble though. I think that's part of where my problems originated, from when I changed lights. It never is just one easy thing is it? Oh, and when was the last time you changed the bulbs on your fixture? I ask this cause we all know on the darkside that compact flourescent bulbs last about 6-8 months of solid use before they shift spectrum(light usable by algae increases, light usable by plants decreases). The bulbs you keep on the majority of the day will need to be switched more frequently than the "noon time high light" bulbs. I dunno if I already brought this up though. I might have. Sorry if I did, but this threads too big to go back and check. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 16-Apr-2006 17:30 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Matty, Thanks for your thoughts on the relationship between BBA and air-exposed areas in the tank. And yes, you are right, I haven't changed my light cycle a bit. The only reason to shorten the cycle would be if my algae profits from the time available when the plants are already tired of uptake. This though should not change over time, meaning that if this is how it works once then this is how it should work again the next time around (aka when you expand the period after shortening it first), except if other conditions in the tank have changed as well. As you may know, right now I have the lights on for 11h and in the middle with double light for 3h. Now, here is a topic where I am way not with you. PCs and 6-8 months until they shift the color range? I seriously doubt that. That was not what my research showed when I investigated lights for the planted tank way back last August. Regular flourescent - yeah, that I have heard, but PCs seem to stay rather stable until they burn out which is not earlier than one year. Can this be different on the dark side because you guys use such high K ranges (20,000 - right? ) or actinic light? Anyway, thanks for the input Matty, it is as always very appreciated And Happy Easter to you too Happy Easter to All FPlers |
Posted 17-Apr-2006 00:38 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, Isn't it true that your other tank has no algae. Why not break it down. I mean the differences between that tank and your 125 and see if you could hit on something. My Scapes |
Posted 17-Apr-2006 02:37 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | the relationship between BBA and air-exposed areas in the tank. It's because they are the parts closest to the light, simple as that. Difference between this and other tank? Well Co2 is going to be the biggest difference. What does Co2 do to a tank ? Drives up nutrient demand explosively. So one tank with low nutrient demand has no algae, one tank with high nutrient demand has algae. What does that tell you ? The fact that LF was adding far less Equilibrium then he should have been for a long time is worrying. With such a low GH there would be problems. Little to no Mg and Calcium. These 2 would directly involve growth. Would certainly explain the stunting on the Reineckii but I'm surprised there wasn't more evidence of stunting on others. Depends on the plant species. Some seem to care squat if the Ca and Mg is low and keep on going, others, like the Reineckii stunt and produce ugly little curled leaves that look like they were burned, swaords and grasy plants just tend to stop growing or slow down dramatically. Don't know if any of these syptoms are familiar to LF ? Anyway with good nutrients going in it should just be a waiting game - trim off the existing algae as new replacement growth comes in. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 17-Apr-2006 03:51 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | Yeah, you can get away with 12 months, but PC bulbs definitely do not hold their spectrum until they burn out(which used for 12ish hrs/day would/should be near 2 years). Sometimes bulbs will only hold their spectrum 3 months, sometimes 10. The average seems to be around 6-8, after which time they will lose/have lost about 40% of their efficacy. I've never been able to read information on spectrum and intensity given by bulb manufacturers (remember, the people who make them, not sell them), but instead must rely on heresay. So who knows what you hear is right. The sellers of the bulbs, coralife and even retailers, give bulb life(how long 50% of tested bulbs lasted, about 2 years), and initial spectrum output and intensity, not efficacy over that period, not even the actual readings after "burn in" which is about 100hrs of use. From what research I've done on NO, VHO, PC, T-5 HO, and MH, it seems to me that T-5 HO bulbs are the only bulbs that continue to give a high percentage of light at a full year. None of these bulbs can claim however that they will give the same, or similar output for the majority of the bulb life. Anyways, you can't assume that bulbs will last any amount of time, and should just be something to consider, because after 6-8 months of use it's increasingly likely that your bulbs are going downhill. I'm not saying that if your plants are doing great to go out and buy a new bulb every six months, but just to give thought. I'll keep mine running as long as possible. I'm a poor college kid . This isn't the most important thing to think about, and definitely not as important in a plant tank as a reef tank which need, generally speaking, more light than we give them. It was just something that crossed my mind. Oh and you are right, actinic bulbs don't last as long as others, but since they are more for veiwing pleasure than photosynthesis, they are much less important to replace. 6500K and say 10000K(which is what I use) last the same amount of time. I'm not sure about the 20000K, these are even harder than the more common bulbs to find info on. The only reason to shorten the cycle would be if my algae profits from the time available when the plants are already tired of uptake. There are other reasons, for me anyways. Light is more connected to all other nutrients than any other, making it by far the most important. Having a high light tank such as yourself, means everything else has to be just right, whereas having a little less light will slow things down a bit and give you more room for error. You might find that your plants will even be as healthy/colorful, and things will be easier on you. I remember Tom Barr saying it, and I totally agree. In his experiments he'd crank the light up to see algae faster, and more ounced. Eh, just something to think about, I'd like to know why you are so stubborn with the light and ready to change everything else. I'm not sure what everyone else thinks about this though. I'd like to know. Don't just go on what I say. It might have been total luck in my case that everything I did helped out instead of causing a huge crash. Anyway with good nutrients going in it should just be a waiting game - trim off the existing algae as new replacement growth comes in. I agree with this too. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 17-Apr-2006 06:05 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Wings - Thanks, this means that you owe me only $201 now, as the fee for the entertainment in my monster log is $250 LF, I stayed up all night reading your log just looking for the way that to give you payment. I couldn't find one so I guess you are out of luck. Isn't it true that your other tank has no algae. Why not break it down. I mean the differences between that tank and your 125 and see if you could hit on something. 125 = high tech 20 + 29 = low tech? But maybe that is something to look into. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 17-Apr-2006 14:36 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Reason I brought up the two tanks, so you might go back to basics and break it down, variable by varible. Something is not in balance, thus the algae. Too much light, not enough mass (discussed too much already), too much waste in the water column, it's not the macro ferts. I'm dosing macros on my 12gallon just like my big tank and I see no algae even with 2.2wpg and no co2 (using excel daily - the only way to use it in my opinion) Look at bensaf's tank, you would probably have to triple your current plant mass to equal his, every la Your algae issues are still in the light/waste/mass relationship in your tank. Your dosing EI, your plants are growing, yes some species are stunting, but I don't think these stunted plants are a big part of the mass in your tank. I can't imagine your "old" lights are causing algae, I understand where Matty is going with the spectrum thing, but I agree that cf bulbs are much more stable. My Scapes |
Posted 17-Apr-2006 17:46 | |
goldfishgeek Fish Addict Posts: 667 Kudos: 412 Votes: 38 Registered: 27-Oct-2003 | I ve not been here a while, sort been popping in having a look and then running away in shame! - As ever Little_Fish great tank! I found this and thought of the gentlemen that frequent this thread and their long suffering other halves!! http://www.ilfordaquarists.co.uk/articles8.htm GFG Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself. Harvey S. Firestone |
Posted 18-Apr-2006 23:56 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Your algae issues are still in the light/waste/mass relationship in your tank. Tetra has been banging away at this for a while, and not really getting the attention it should. I just read something by Tom Barr that addresses that very issue. Basicially it's to to with the input of organics into a system. Apparently there needs to be a balance between the the organics going in (ie fish poo, mulm) and the bacterias ability to consume it.Loading is the key rather then the amount of organics itself. If the organics are loaded faster then the bacteria can consume it then you will have algae. It's not possible to have enough plant mass to make the difference. Example a 50 gal with say 8 discus getting fed properly is going to have algae, no matter how many plants or how sound the fert routine !!!! Same tank with 2 discus will have no problems. So you can have a high level of orgnics with no problems if the bacteria can consume it quickly, if the bacteria can't - even a small amount of organics will cause problems. Loading. Now Espei's aren't Discus by any means but then again are we still talking 100+ rather then 8 ? I think tetra has been on to something here. Certainly I used to be a devil for overstocking, got over that and prefer to be understocked now (looks better), and there do seem to be less issues with a lower fish stock. goldfishgeek, I enjoyed that article Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 04:00 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Sorry Guys (and Gals) that I have not added an entry in a few days I thought the best thing I can do right now is to let you add all your ideas of what may be causing my algae issues without interruption While all your advice is noble and appreciated, combined it contradicts one rule that I believe I am beginning to understand (and follow): "Change one thing at a time, give it time to show its effect, if it doesn't help then move on to the next option". I totally agree with the fact that light duration and fish load can have something to do with it, heck - they do have something to do with it. But right now I am increasing the plant mass and as painful as it is even for me, I am willing to give the plants time to grow and to monitor any changes, if they ever happen . The "mental" issue I have with regards to light is that I somehow believe that reducing duration, or even cutting out the midday light, will conclude in a tank that I can have without CO2 and what not. So why would I want to go that route? The "mental" issue I have with the fish load is - I like fish too . Although I can imagine reducing the Espei group (now maybe around 70) by another 20 to 30, you guys have no idea how hard it is to catch these buggers in that tank. While I had 100 it took me 1.5 hours to get 28, and an attempt to catch an almost adult one failed every single time - too fast and too smart. I have thoughts of somehow building a contraption with a real fishing net and what not. In summary, I guess I have lots of "mental" issues GFG - Good to see you back, you have to hang around some more. How is it going with you? I also loved the article, I am not sure though if I want to show it to my wife as it may frighten her of the things to come Ingo |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 11:00 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Bensaf, Thanks for the acknowledgement. I had not seen the Tom Barr piece, but I knew I was on to something. It's not possible to have enough plant mass to make the difference.Do you mean, possibility depending on the organic input? To me and let's be honest. "Planted tanks and fish lovers don't mix" What I mean is someone like LF (great guy by the way) is fairly new to the hobby and loves his fish, also loves his plants, but that's a big part of the issue. I would say if LF has 100 espei in the tank, plus rainbows, plus pearls. Each rainbow is probably like 10 espei same for the pearls, so we ar talking 150 fish or so. That's a lot of s***! Oh I forgot the otos they s*** too! You got so much s*** floating around. Now, look up it's 386 watts, break out the SPF 80. See what I mean the two don't mix. I always go back to nature. Think of how vast the oceans and lakes are. Do you see 150 fish every 5 feet. It's an unbalanced closed system. Yes I know you do a 50% wc every week, but believe it or not, it's not enough ba Look at saltwater tanks that require protein skimming, sumps in a desperate attempt to balance out the organic load, etc. My Scapes |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 14:47 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Look at saltwater tanks ...Friends of the Planted Tanks - get your vaccinations, have your tubes tied, get a vasectomy - anything that can be done to stop this Dark Side stuff from invading the peaceful planted community Well, it is only around 70 Espei, but I get the point tetratech Are you basically implying that changing light duration, supercharging ferts, upping CO2, increasing plant mass, and what not will all not help as I simply have too many fish? What about Amano's 500 Cardinals in a 29G with minmal plant mass - all just show and for one day only? It certainly would disillusion me that if after all this back and forth about what may not be right in my tank, and all these replants, the conclusion would be that I cannot have this fish load and a high tech planted tank Ingo |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 15:41 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Friends of the Planted Tanks - get your vaccinations, have your tubes tied, get a vasectomy - anything that can be done to stop this Dark Side stuff from invading the peaceful planted community Look these are gut feelings I have. I haven't conducted scientific experiments but I do feel strongly about the relationship between waste/biofilter/light. Those other things (stablity, plant mass, not uprooting, EI) all have to be there). I believe if you are going to continue to use high light then the water has to be cleaner. So less fish or more water changes / maintenance. Doesn't it seem kinda romote now that it's too much no3 or p04 that is causing problems. I've said this before 3.1 wpg on your tank is like 6/7 watts on a 29g. Why don't you try semi-weekly water changes or 70% wc once a week, plus keep adding plant mass. BTW: More fish the more you probably feed. You don't need to feed your fish everyday. I routinely don't feed once sometimes twice a week. My Scapes |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 16:14 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | You don't need to feed your fish everydayAlmost by chance, I started this earlier this week. I don't think it will make a difference yet, but we will see. Also, ba Oh, BTW - tonight I will be part of that Planted Tank round table discussion at my LFS. It will be interesting to see what these folks have to say in general. I may encounter a big resistance when I mention things like EI, 30++ppm of CO2, 20ppm N, and what not Thanks tetratech, Ingo |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 17:33 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | I may encounter a big resistance when I mention things like EI, 30++ppm of CO2, 20ppm N, and what not Yea, especially when there's some algae in your tank. It's a lot easier if the tank is spotless. But hey, they'll come around...I did....sorta. I'm not going to press the light issue anymore, but I think that you can do fine with that many fish. It's a big tank with adequate filtration. Of course removing a few fish and increasing filtration couldn't hurt. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 19:52 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Yeah Matty, I guess you are right, one cannot make a strong stand when there are issues . But I will use Bensaf and tetratech as perfect examples how EI can be used with success . So you find my filtration just adequate? I haven't thought about that as I see a rather strong current, on top from left to right and on the bottom the other way. I figured that this (and 6 liters of filter media) should be more than adequate. Ingo |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 19:57 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | I will quote a line from my one of my favorite movies: "The time for half measures and talk is over" EI - Yes it works, your plants are growing. Remember it's estimative and for the most part your plants are growing fine. Something is out of wack and it's not the fert dosing. Yes, I'm sure the uprooting is a problem with getting too much waste in the column, but do you want a tank that you have to be so afraid to touch. You must bring the tank into a more centered place. Where you have some degree of wiggle room. More plants, less fish, more biofilter (if possible), more water changes/gravel wash and possibilly less light. Pick and choose. You might not be able to sustain the tank you have without doing one or more of the above. Don't take my word for it, look at the tank. Sometimes you have to pick and choose. Remember "You can't be all things to all fish and plants" My Scapes |
Posted 19-Apr-2006 21:50 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Well let's assume for a minute we're onto something with the organic loading vs. bacteria ability to break it down. Logically we have 2 options - either reduce the organics going in OR increase the amount of bacteria to enable a heavier loading. If we rule out reducing the fish load for the moment that just leaves the bacteria. How to handle ? Well what exactly is in that 9 litres of filter media - are we talking flosses/sponges or bio balls, efisubstrat etc ? Maybe by increasing the quantity of biological filtration over mechanical filtration would help ? One thing I've noticed on the big planted tanks here - they all have huge amounts of bio filtration !!! Most all the big tanks I've seen here have bulit in compartments, usually built into the rear left corner, the filter outlet is fed into this compartment which is full of nothing but bio balls and this is in addition to whatever is in the filter itself. All these tanks were very clean and algae free - I just never made the connection to the huge amount of bio balls before. I also remember talking to one local shop owner who had some amazing planted show tanks, lots of slow growers Ferns, Anubias , Bolbitis - perfect health and spotless. I was particularly impressed by his narrow leaf fern - the cleanest,freshest most brightest green I'd ever seen. I asked him what he did to keep it that good looking. His reply - "clean water" !!!!! Not nutrients or light (he had a good bit of light BTW) just "clean water". Food for thought. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 03:40 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Bensaf, I couldn't agree more and I don't think we are just blowing smoke toward LF's direction. If he had 3 cardinals swimming around I don't think we are having this conversation. What does algae feed off of, waste and light, right. LF has plenty of both and with his light levels that water better be clean. Get your sabre out, because I'm going to bring up the darkside. Did you ever see the bioballs in some of those tanks. There is a massive amount of surface area to colonize bacteria in those sumps, becuase the water has to be really clean. Dirty water and high light is the breeding ground for algae. It's interesting I tested my water tonite for the hell of it and from what I could tell I have 10ppm no3, 5ppm po4. That makes sense to me because I've been easing up on my no3 and increasing po4 to get the red in. The reason I mention it is that I've had these numbers as high as 20 to 25no3 and 1ppm po4 and even with these changes I'm still not getting any algae. It really is an estimative index as long as your tank is balanced somewhat between fish load, plants, light. Another thing too that shouldn't be overlooked and I did mention it before is that with a heavy fish load it get's even worse because people are feeding more to make sure they all get some. LF said he just started to ease up on feeding so maybe that will help as well. I would love to be a "fly on the wall" at his planted tank meeting. My Scapes |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 03:59 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks guys for the input Just to clear that up, I have 4 liters of ehfisubstrat in my filter and 1 liter of ehfimech. Overall, I think our discussion regarding my algae issue is heading towards Doomsday . It isn't all that bad, guys. Yes, it is annoying and in particular with the occurence of the BBA not very sightly, but I have seen tanks in worse shape. You are right, I may have too many fishies, at least when looking at recommendations that state that heavy fish loads are dangerous for planted tanks (of this kind) as they narrow the marign for error even more. But, I think that me messing big time with the tank twice in just a few weeks, plus running out of CO2 during vacation may have just been enough to get outside of this margin and the algae is the result. Maybe, just maybe, creating some stability in the tank will enable to get me back within this margin. For what it is worth, the green thread algae patch that is pictured on the branch (surrounded by BBA) has almost completely dissapeard. I saw it decline over the last 4 days. I think the one thing I would like to work on as soon as I can is to find a solution on how to avoid that so much CO2 is bypassing the spray bar. Even if that may have no impact on the algae, right now I feel like I am wasting CO2 and a more efficient means of keeping it in the water can help extend my bottle life. Anyway: The round table discussion last night was fine, there were about 10-12 people on all levels, some of which just started in the planted tank hobby and others that are doing it for a long time. You know how it is when one talks about plants and stuff, there is barely any time to cover a particular topic in depth. So we pretty much went over loads of detailed topics, like CO2, Nutrients, Plants, Tanks, Substrate, and what not. There wasn't much new that I learned there, as I said we really didn't have the time to go into details. There seemed to have been a rather strong resistance against Tom Barr, but all add CO2, have high nutrient values, and do large water changes - that for me is EI. Maybe some day I can chat with them some more and find out where they may differ from his method. At least two of the experts are also members of the North New Jersey Aquarium Society, nice folks with humor and insight, and I am consideing going to one of their meetings. I have been thinking about this before, but knowing people that are members makes it easier than showing up and knowing nobody. Well, this was a long post. I hope I didn't bore you to death, Ingo |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 14:36 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Hi, "Wasting CO2" can be a problem with using diffusers. As we all know, with CO2, the longer the gas is in contact with the water, the more is absorbed into the water. By using the smallest possible bubble and keeping it circulating in the water not reaching the surface is the only way to do that. They are, after all, just bubbles. So we use the smallest possible bubble, and in some cases even create currents in the tank just to keep the bubbles waterborne. Still they reach the surface. Reactors, on the other hand don't allow that to happen. The external ones, with a pump, are the best in that you don't have to look at them when you look into the tank. The inside ones with the motor and sponge are very efficient as well. With a reactor, if your gas bubbles get out of the reactor, you are injecting too much gas and instead of circulating inside the reactor it is escaping. You just need to back down on the rate of injection. I suspect, that with reactors, as with diffusers, a given one can only do so much. I suspect if one working properly is not increasing the CO2 saturation enough and you are injecting to where some of the gas is escaping out of the reactor, you should add a second. But then I don't have a tank measuring in the hundreds of gallons. Just an observation? Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 15:32 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Overall, I think our discussion regarding my algae issue is heading towards Doomsday Why do you say that? In any case sounds like your in the right place, mentally anyway. All these things: biofilter, organic control, can only help, increase plants, biofilter, feed less (with those baby espei) you could probably feed twice a week and be fine. I bet the food has alot to do with the organics problem. Not only is uneaten food in the tank but obviously the poop more too. Remember I said when I stir things up in my tank I get very little gunk. I really don't feed alot. If you start doing all these things and your plant mass increases I bet your algae problems are history. As far as the spraybar. Just angle the diffusor alittle bit toward the inside of the tank so the bubbles don't climb up the glass inbetween the diffusor. All I could tell you is I've never had more pearling than I have gotten since using the glass diffusor. Even in the event that some bubbles are wasted the method is much more effective for the plants. Co2 is pretty cheap. What $10 bucks every 6 months, so turn it up if you have to. My ph has been riding 6.0 lately with a kh of 2, so I have to be careful. So far fish look fine and plants look great. Here's a pic of my diffusor / spraybar: My Scapes |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 16:05 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 16:07 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | And another: I'ts funny you really get to know your tank after a while, every plant in my tank was pearling last nite, except the riccia, why? Because the aromatica has reached the top of the tank and the riccia is completely shaded. I've noticed the bushiness has stopped on it so if I do nothing, I'll probably get some bba from the slowed growth, but one I clip the aromatica it will come back good as new. BTW: Check out the size od the wisteria leave behind the rotala My Scapes |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 16:09 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Frank and tetratech, Thanks for the input I am basically pretty happy with the job the diffuser is doing. I have at least the same CO2 levels then I had before (with the reactor at same bubble rate), probably even more as I raised the KH by about 1dH (to maybe 4.5, previously I raised it only to maybe 3 to 3.5) and have the same end-day ph of about 6.6. I just don't like the trip to get a new filled bottle and wouldn't mind stretching it out some more. As such - the idea is to make sure all bubbles stay in the tank for longer. And it is over $20 here in NJ for a replacement bottle . I will try the angle method, although I am not too optimistic about it as most bubbles that escape are actually in front of the spray bar. I asume that my diffuser is not even a good quality as a good half of the bubbles are rather large and the diffusion section on the ceramic plate is still only in one small part of it. Oh - how do I clean that sucker again? Why do you say that?Because I got the impression that the conclusion to my algae situation would be that I have to lower the fish load, otherwise I would be doomed to fields of algae forever. Maybe I misinterpreted the recent statements from my FP friends in this log. Ingo PS: tetratech, nice shots After seeing only the first picture I was already getting ready to state that a haircut may be needed, but then you mentioned it yourself |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 16:33 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | I will try the angle method, although I am not too optimistic about it as most bubbles that escape are actually in front of the spray bar. I asume that my diffuser is not even a good quality as a good half of the bubbles are rather large and the diffusion section on the ceramic plate is still only in one small part of it. Oh - how do I clean that sucker again? My problem was some was going between the glass and diffusor thus the angle. LF we are splitting hairs here. Measure your co2 tonite before lights out and see where you are. Diffusor, reactor, inline they all work, I do believe the diffusor methods creates more pearling. For the longest time my plants didn't pearl but their growth was beautiful. Let's move on: BTW - Clean the diffusor with 1/3 bleach / water. Rinse with prime after that and put back in. Because I got the impression that the conclusion to my algae situation would be that I have to lower the fish load, otherwise I would be doomed to fields of algae forever. Maybe I misinterpreted the recent statements from my FP friends in this log I think you could have your fish, but if you want that type of load you might have to go over-the-top on maintenance. More biofilter, more plants, less feeding, mabye semiweekly gravelwash and waterchanges. Some tanks require less maintenance, all plants and like no fish, you know those tanks where you don't even need a filter. So it all depends what you want and where you tank fits in. My Scapes |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 17:22 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Oh - how do I clean that sucker again? LF, Bensaf is going to be mad at you!! Basicly I do a 50/50 bleach/water bath for about 10 to 15 minuts. After that I rince the bugger like crazy for a while. Then I give it a second heavy bath in cheap water conditioner for another few minutes. Then a quick tap water rince and back in the tank. I really think that tetra and ben are on to something with the fish load/bio filter thing. We really tend to over stock our tanks compared to the number of fish per area in the wild. To make this really work then you are going to have to up your bio filter. Things like sumps a quite cool because they add that much more water/bio area to your system. What if one were to make a PVC add on to your canister like what Matt did for his CO2? Just fill the thing with bio balls or something. This would add more bio filter area and not cause issues like surface disterbance like a sump would. I might just have to mess around with that when I move and have to mess with things anyways. I am already thinking of having the tank coming out from the wall at a 90 degree thus it would be viewable from three sides. (sorry to get rambling....) 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 20-Apr-2006 17:30 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Lucky wings gave a reminder how to clean the diffuser. I swore I wasn't going to it again Tetra has 5ppm of P and no algae. Another nail in the coffin of the "P causes algae" myth Don't worry about the bubbles from the diffuser. Part of the reason why diffusers lost out to reactors in popularity in the past was the "wasted gas" myth, btw the have you noticed how this hobby has more myth then even the ancient Greeks had ?? Most of the bubbles that reach the top are no longer co2 anyway, it's dissolved and exchanged with oxygen. Nobody could understand why Amano was using those "inefficient" diffusers for years and refused to use a reactor. Heck, he even places his halfway up the tank, so I guess he's not worried about the bubbles "escaping". Important thing is how much Co2 in the water. If the levels are good then the diffuser is doing it's job. Good to see the algae is receding. Maybe the stability is helping. Either way an excellent omen. Just keep things steady ! The biggest hurdle most have with EI is the whole "excess" thing. Most think they can fine tune and micro-manage the nutrients. Cool if they can and they have the time for a lot of testing and monitoring. Me, I'd rather spoon the stuff in and then kick back with a smoke and a cup 'o joe and enjoy the tank. But basically , whether you use EI, PPS, Amano products or any other method, they all boil down to the same thing - getting the nutrients in the tank in sufficient quantity for the plants. They just differ slightly in how they add them. All the good methods focus on plants and don't devote any attention to algae. As tetra as mentioned before Amano fully expects algae and apart from adding abiot of specialist livestock to eat it, pretty much ignores it and keeps focused on the plants. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 21-Apr-2006 03:55 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Lucky wings gave a reminder how to clean the diffuser. I swore I wasn't going to it again As much as LF has been there for me I didn't want to see ben pull out his lightsaber and get him. So just to make you guys laugh a little.... I dropped my phone in a creek while trout fishing tonight...the lady wasn't very happy.... this was number two! EI question: I have been doing 1/2 tsp of pot. Nitrate in my 40G 3 times a week. I did a couple of test this week and I am coming up with 0 ppm each test. Doest this mean my plants are sucking the stuff right up? If so should I up it a little? I have noticed a little bit of green spot on my A. Nana. Everything else is rocking though. Sorry I am off subject and log hacking. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 21-Apr-2006 04:13 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | I dropped my phone in a creek while trout fishing tonight... I once dropped mine in the toilet bowl while having a pee Fished it out I let it dry out. Of course I needed a new cell. There's alot of big markets here that only deal in cell phones. Took the old one with me to trade in and get a few bucks off a new one. All going well until the store guy decides to remove the antenna compartment to check it. Puzzled look on his faces as he notices the rust ! He's not sure what it is so he deides to sniff it The look of sheer of disgust and horror on his face was priceless EI question: I have been doing 1/2 tsp of pot. Nitrate in my 40G 3 times a week. I did a couple of test this week and I am coming up with 0 ppm each test. Doest this mean my plants are sucking the stuff right up? No it means your test kit is rubbish ! That's a lot of KNO3 to be adding to a 40gal. No way the plants are sucking it all up. Dodgy kit. Plants showing any signs of N deficiency ? Trust them more then the kit. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 21-Apr-2006 10:54 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Well thanks to Wings then, otherwise the secret of how to clean a diffuser would have been lost forever But, I have to dig deeper into the cleaning ritual. Given that the diffuser is full of water (oh, BTW, there is some white substance forming on the inside bottom of mine) I would assume that you don't empty it first before you clean it. Given that, I further assume that it is unavoidable that some bleach will be mixed in with the water inside the diffuser. Now, after putting it in a Prime bath, can one be sure that this bleach is neutralized? Yeah Bensaf, let's try the stability theorem first. I always have time later to reduce fish count, black-outs, poison, and what not . At least I can try to give nature a chance. Wings, I agree with Bensaf, your N addition should be fine. Your tank is pretty much 1/3 of mine, and I add 3 times the N than you do. And I get healthy N readings. Bensaf - I guess I shouldn't buy used ob Ingo |
Posted 21-Apr-2006 11:18 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Yeah the plants are looking just fine. Growing like weeds. Maybe I should test another tank to see what happens.... Yeah I think you topped my cell phone story BTW ben. Phone report this morning is all is fine and dandy! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 21-Apr-2006 14:01 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | No it means your test kit is rubbish ! I say class action against the makers of test kits for emotional duress. I was putting in about that in my 72 for the longest time. Recently I have moved up to around 5/8 to 3/4 and my tank is almost twice the size of yours Wings and I still show good ranges of no3 (Then again it's ba My Scapes |
Posted 21-Apr-2006 18:45 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | I keep saying that it is entirely simple to test if your kit is bunk or not. Just test it against a known concentration. make up a gallon of water and put in according to Chucks calculator, the amount that would be 10ppm or 20ppm(whatever you want in your tank). Mix well, and test. From then on that is what you want in your tank. Obviously if it doesn't register anything throw out your kit. Or call up the company and they will likely send out a new one or something. Most companies aren't out to rip you off. I only tested until I figured the right amount of nutrients to put in the tank every other day to keep the levels I want. Now I only test once a month before the water change. Things have always looked good, and worked out well logically too. Test kits are a good tool if you use them right. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 21-Apr-2006 19:36 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | But, I have to dig deeper into the cleaning ritual. Given that the diffuser is full of water (oh, BTW, there is some white substance forming on the inside bottom of mine) I would assume that you don't empty it first before you clean it. Given that, I further assume that it is unavoidable that some bleach will be mixed in with the water inside the diffuser. Now, after putting it in a Prime bath, can one be sure that this bleach is neutralized? Over thinking alert.Over thinking alert.Over thinking alert. Yes don't empty it. It'll be fine. Being doing this for months now, no problems. If you assume the bleach will get into the water in the diffuser then you also have to assume the Prime will also. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 03:42 | |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 15:09 | This post has been deleted |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Over thinking alertYou have no idea, here comes over thinking: "If you assume the bleach will get into the water in the diffuser then you also have to assume the Prime will also." - But Prime and Bleach have different consistencies and maybe bleach is smoother and more of it would enter the diffuser than Prime can eliminate . Ingo |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 15:10 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | So Prime the crap out of it! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 16:41 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks Wings, more to this in a few posts, but now: Weekly Tank Update - Week 30 This week was marked more by talk than by action . Endless discussions on what should be done to reduce my algae ended with me deciding to maintain the status quo and see where the tank will go from here. Rushed action taken in the past never gave the tank time to settle, I think this approach is worth a try. I also believe to see the first improvements, although it may be wishful thinking. So, on to the photos: There will be only 2 full shots of the full tank as there are quite a few details of fish and plants, in particular fish, that I would like to share. Here is the tank last weekend after the water change: |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 23:33 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is the tank now this weekend, after the water change. As you can see, the Star Grass grows as strong as usual. It seems that a bi-weekly replant is becoming the norm for this group. ba No major trimming has been performed this weekend, only a few dying leaves of the remaining Helferi plants have been pinched off. I guess next week I will also hae to trim the Alternanthera on the right: Week 30 - Today |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 23:39 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a picture of the glass diffuser before I cleaned it. As you may be able to see, the top of the ceramic plate is pretty green. Cleaning was ba I also followed tetratech's example and angled the diffuser slightly by removing the bottom sucktion cup. The week will show if it makes a difference, but it looks like a little more of the bubbles are washed into the current. Diffuser |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 23:43 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is an interesting picture that shows one thing, algae on decline. I cannot identify why the algae is reciding in this spot as it may have to do with the fact that I dripped Excel over it during last weeks water change. Algae in the rest of the tank is at least not further increasing. Photo: left was last week, right is now: Yeah Baby |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 23:45 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now on to a few detail shots. Again tetratech served as an inspiration (I hope you see it this way as well tetratech, and don't brand me a copy cat ) and so I climbed on a chair and took some top shots of the tank. Given the size of my tank it is impossible to cover it all, not even front to back fits in one picture. I guess I will have to remove a piece of the floor on the first floor so I can look straight down to the tank in the ba Anyway, here is the left side - front area - of the tank from the birds-eye view. From left to right, you see: - A red Wendtii with Pearl Grass in front of it - One small stem of Wisteria - An open field with crypt Wendtii (small ones that never took off in the tank within the last 30 weeks), Lucens, and Lutea. - On the right back is an Anubias leave and in the front the end of the big driftwood: Left Top View |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 23:52 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is the middle section of the tank. All across the picture is the wood and one can also see the rock that holds it down. Plants in the picture are: Narrow Leaf Java Fern with Anubias Nana Petite in front of it, a Red Wendtii, some dwarf sags, and Pearl Grass. Middle from Top |
Posted 22-Apr-2006 23:54 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is the right corner of the tank from above. On the left side you can see the remaining tiny group of Glosso that slowly starts to settle again. Behind it is a row of 3 Isoetes Lacustris. All ovehanging leaves are from Helferi, Crypt Retrospiralis, and the rather new Hygrophila augustifolia. The right corner in itself is filled with Pearl Grass (can you tell I really like that plant? ), with a small stem of Wisteria to the left of it. Right Corner from Top |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 00:02 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Well I'm glad alage didn't dominate your posts today. Just let the plants grow and I'll withhold and scaping comments for a few weeks. I'm confident your put this algae thing behind you soon. Yeah I like the overhead shots it gives a different prospective on the tank and it's interesting to see what's going on. The wisteria looks very clean and healthy so that should spread quickly and help out. Did your diffusor come with those suction cups? I only have mine attache by the tubing and it keeps breaking away. BTW - How come you haven't put the apistos in yet? My Scapes |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 00:03 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | On to some fish pictures You guys and gals have to let me know when you have enough of seeing the same fish over and over again as I just like to look at them. Here is a shot of 2 male Rainbows, unfortunately I couldn't get both with their full bodies in the shot. Male Dwarf Rainbows |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 00:04 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a nice one where the Pearls seem to follow the lead of the Rainbow. Where they are going though is beyond me Maybe you remember some older shots of the male Pearl, but I can tell that he is becoming a grown-up. His finnage is getting longer and his throat more and more orange-yellow. He also likes the company of the female more than he did in the past: Pearls and Rainbow |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 00:07 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now there will be two shots of the Apisto Pair. I assume that I will add them during this week to the tank, I am in no rush though. They also have truely bonded and I am sure that they would breed under the right conditions. Unfortunately I don't think that the 125 will be able to provide these conditions - too many fish Here is a shot that displays the difference in size between the male and female Apisto Pair I |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 00:11 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is the second shot of the pair. This time the female is either telling her man to stay away or she shows him how pretty she is. I cannot tell which one is the case as we males misinterpret female signs by definition Apisto Pair II |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 00:13 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Last but not least, a good old Oto picture. Today I saw 5 of them (I have 6) for the first time in at least 3 weeks at the same time. With these guys you never know how many are still alive. Here is one munching away on algae on my big piece of driftwood, just beautiful: Hungry Oto |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 00:15 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I'll withhold and scaping comments for a few weeksThanks tetratech Sorry, only now when reviewing my entries did I see your entry. I hope you are right about the algae issue being behind me at some point. The Wisteria in the top shots are small cut off pieces from the 20G, the ones that I bought at the store a little over a week ago are further in the back as they are taller already. The suction cups did not come with the diffuser. They are standard air hose cups and barely fit around the diffuser pipe. I also had the diffuser break away from the cups. If you look closely at the picture then you may see that I locked the bottom cup with a rubber band to the pipe, that seems to work. This cup is now on top of the pipe so the bottom can lean against the glass and angle the unit for a better of bubbles in the spray bar current. The Apistos will most likely be added this week, I am not in a rush with that as they are doing just great in the QT and I am not sure if I would like to add more fish any time soon. Although, 8 Cories may be nice Ingo |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 00:29 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | So Excel works great with a dirct hit to the algae. I found that out at work too! That algae in the oto picture is nice looking stuff! You grow it very well I must say! If you look at tetra's over head pictures compared to your what do you see? Way more plant mass in tetra's tank. I think that is probably his biggest differnce compared to your tank. Want me to mail you so Sunset Hygro? I have a tank full it floating right now. Grows like weed! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 01:10 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | Hi Ingo I love your pics. I especially love the Apisto Pair. they should breed under the right conditions. Unfortunately I don't think that the 125 will be able to provide these conditions - too many fishThat might be right. I have on order 2 pelvicachromis taeniatus Moliwe, which I was told are a rarer cousin of the krib (at least in Oz). They are still on their way to Oz. They had to be preordered & bought as a pair. I was told not to add them to my community tank, as the goal should be breeding and that a community tank will be too busy for success. You know I'm inexperienced, so I don't know if LFS is right or not, but LFS said they should be in a tank with only a few dither fish to give them confidence. My QT will become their home. I will still have another small QT (you might remember my thread about that). My community tank is almost stocked (only ottos to go). Therefore, I shouldn't need a big QT any more. I'm looking forward to seeing if I can breed them. Cheers TW |
Posted 23-Apr-2006 02:52 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Robyn and Wings, I know we had talked about other stuff before, and I hope you remember the details, as I forgot. But I think it was mostly about your Krib cousins, Robyn. So I have a new question: Do you folks think it would be advisable to prepare some form of case, like flower pot or something, before I add the Apistos to the main tank? If so, I guess less current in that area would be better and as such it should be on the right side of the tank, right? Ingo |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 01:20 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Something you might want to try is sticking a flower pot in there but hide it under a bunch of rocks and plants. That way they have there hide out and you have more of a mound. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 04:12 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | and then cover that with anubias, java moss, or fern so you don't lose any of your plant mass. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 04:48 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | Ingo, I think some posts have disappeared - you gave me some good articles & links about those krib cousins. Re: the flower pot. That's what I've read I should put in for my P.taeniatus Moliwe. Suggestions are to invert the flower pot, but firstly enlarge the water outlet hole to be just large enough for the female to enter. Cheers TW |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 06:41 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks guys, and gal, for the input Suggestions are to invert the flower potInvert as in upside-down? I don't think I am going to do that. My tank and its inhabitants are way too much of a gunk producing machine and I believe the living conditions inside that pot would deteriorate rather quickly. Instead I intend to (if I use a pot) place it sideways, about half of it buried in the gravel. Also the pot should not be too deep. Enlarging the hole is a good idea though, I read some posts here (a long time ago) referring to fish that got stuck in these holes. The next thought would have to be the exact position, meaning - where can I place this cave so that it can be covered with plants (as Matty said) without sticking out too much and at the same time allow me to look into the pot so I can see if there is anything moving in there? I still assume it would have to be on the right side, far away from the filter intake and in calmer waters. I will see what I can do. Thanks again, Ingo |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 11:04 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Instead I intend to (if I use a pot) place it sideways, about half of it buried in the gravel A clay pot in planted aquaria Guess I now know the difference between planted aquaria and aquascaping. Cichlid Central My Scapes |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 12:35 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Cichlid Central Well, I was using the clay pot more as a visual guide to a structure that is yet to be defined, if that makes any sense . Conceptually, I believe that I would need something that has walls and a top, basically a clay pot (and no, I didn't yet "borrow" a pot from my wife for the tank and neither did I buy one). Is that more scape like, tetratech? Ingo |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 14:23 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Here is another idea for you. Get the pot and silicon your gravel to it. Then suround it by other rocks and cover them with plants as Matt said. This might help it fit in more. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 14:42 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | What do cichlids do in nature? Do they use clay pots that old ladies threw in the lake after their flowers die. Arrange something more nature or do what Wings said. If I see a clay pot on it's side in the aquascaping or planted aquaria forums I'm going to insist that the mods move all your stuff to Cichlid Central My Scapes |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 15:34 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Well, I don't think LF wants rotting leaf litter on the bottom of his tank, so that throws out the "do it like nature" idea I think the clay pot can be pulled off pretty easily and effectively. Ya can't just leave it sticking up in the middle of the scape, that would look ugly. But if you lay it on its side with the mouth pointing towards the front of the tank or whichever area you want to view it from, and then bury half of it under the gravel so that only a "half moon" is sticking out of the bottom that should work. Cover it with moss or let Wisteria grow in around it. It'll be invisible in no time. Or just let them find their own spot, which may happen anyway |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 15:43 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Well, I don't think LF wants rotting leaf litter on the bottom of his tank Sounds good to me There are many rocks you could use to create a honeymoon suite! Wisteria and clay pots. Talk about your "Weed Garden" My Scapes |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 15:47 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech Or just let them find their own spot, which may happen anywayWhich brings me back to the original question, which was like "do you think it is advisable to add a cave" (I wrote case, but that is what I meant) So I guess in the interest of not having my thread moved to Cichlid Central, and in the interest not to upset my AquaScaping friends, I may just let them find their own territory. In any way, what would be the chances of survival for any fry in this fish-invested tank ? Being really slow growers they run too many risks, being eaten, sucked into the filter, sucked into the drain during water change, and what not. Ingo |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 15:50 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | If they're first time spawners it's likely that the parents will eat the fry before the other fish get a chance to. After a couple swawns they may get the hang of parenting and a few might make it, but it's a crap shoot. I am of the opinion that when fish start breeding in a community tank it's best to just let nature take its course and work from there. If they spawn and none make it, be happy that WC is good enough for them to spawn. If a few make it, you have some nice additions to your tank or some nice fish to sell. If you really want to breed them and raise the fry then a seperate tank would be best |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 16:04 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | So I guess in the interest of not having my thread moved to Cichlid Central, and in the interest not to upset my AquaScaping friends, I may just let them find their own territory Well I certainly appreciate that. I was about to direct you a site that sells underwater neon lights and those little divers that circle around the tank with an airline tube attached. Hard to say if any wil survive. To be honest I think my rams might have given up after three attempts. Unless they are laying eggs in one of the seven la You could always cover the intake with a netting to help out. It also depends if your espei turn into little piranhas like my cardinals do when the see fry. My Scapes |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 16:16 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I was about to direct you a site that sells underwater neon lights and those little divers that circle around the tank with an airline tube attached. Oh goodie, yeah - I need that link. Are the neon lights blinking and moving around like a lighthouse beam? "Burn baby burn, disco inferno" Ingo |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 16:35 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | Yeah the ones that burn the fish retinas so they spaz out and people think they are "dancing". I honestly don't think hiding a clay pot or other such formation would be very hard in a 125 tank. The pot or similar structure wouldn't have to be very big, just enough for them to fit into. It would easily dissapear into whatever aquascape you wanted. Add some plant mass to the structure and it can even be mostly buried. I would think that it would be less bulky and eyecatching than a "natural" formation to make a cave. That's all assuming that they could even find whatever you put in there for them. I'm not sure that apisto territories are as large as a 125. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 18:03 | |
illustrae Fish Addict Posts: 820 Kudos: 876 Registered: 04-May-2005 | A good alternative to a flowerpot is a more natural looking ceramic cave like the ones they have at www.cichlidbreeding.com. I just bought a bunch of them for an African tank, and they really do look quite natural underwater, and could just as easily be hidden by plants and hardscape. You could even dispurse several of them throughout the tank so that they would have more choice of territories. Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean... |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 19:32 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Yeah the ones that burn the fish retinas so they spaz out and people think they are "dancing". They really aren't dancing to the disco lights? Dang it! I guess its time to get that out of my tank. I have been hiding it from you guys behind my "thing". Just remember LF this is your tank. You do what you want. I if you want to try to hide a pot then go for it. If you want it to have flowers coming out of it like a old lady through it in the river then have flowers coming out of it. Just make sure to use the old faded plastic ones. But really... I don't think it would hurt anything to put in some "breeding" structure. They may or may not use it or even want to breed. Who knows really.... 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 19:48 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF already said he will "let nature take it's course" and not taint the courtship with an 1-800-FLOWERS BOUQUET. If you guys had your way he'd end up removing everything and have a bare bottom breeders tank with a bunch of knocked over flower pots. My Scapes |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 20:06 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | illustrae - thank you so much, that is a nice link. Some of these structures look kind of weird, but the first one of the Breeding Cave section would be suitable, I think. Wings - you are right, it is my tank. But I value your (your as in all FP members) input. If it wouldn't have been for you folks my tank would for sure not look like it does now. Come to think of it, maybe that would have been a good thing Ingo EDIT: Didn't see tetratech's input until I finished mine, so tetratech - |
Posted 26-Apr-2006 20:13 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | Well, everyone got very excited about the flowerpot thing. I guess I'm still going to do it, but it won't be in my planted community tank, but in a separate dedicated tank for my P.Taeniatus Moliwe. I've found myself some aquarium safe clear silicone & I'm going to attach gravel in & outside of it & then tie some java moss to it. Or I might look around for a natural looking ornament cave that I can also hide with bunch of java moss tied to it. I hope it won't be too much of an eyesore, but the main goal of this separate tank will be for my P.Taeniatus Moliwe to breed. That should mean my 43.G log, without the contamination of a disguised flowerpot, should be allowed to stay in the planted forum. Cheers TW |
Posted 27-Apr-2006 01:02 | |
dan76 Big Fish Always Reading Posts Posts: 343 Registered: 08-Jul-2003 | i think you should get a large peice of wood and drill it out to create holes and caves of the right size , very easy to do and you can have small openings with large caves behind them. also another good place to look for realistic looking rock caves is in the reptile section at lfs , my lfs lets me look through all the supplier catalogues at my leisure and the available range is huge. cheers dan |
Posted 27-Apr-2006 02:03 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | dan, Nice idea with the drill wood idea. I like it! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 27-Apr-2006 03:12 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | What do cichlids do in nature? Do they use clay pots that old ladies threw in the lake after their flowers die. Do I need to say anything ? Sure you already know my opinion on having a claypot in there. I do like the neon lights idea though And a disco ball Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 27-Apr-2006 03:42 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks all for the input Robyn - quickly to your cave vision: I would not glue anything on the inside. What would that be good for? I would assume that the fish would rather lay their eggs on a flat surface. Dan - I know you are the handyman and I have had the pleasure to see quite a few of your tank constructions (mattenfilter and tank background). I - on the other hand - do not only not have the tools but also don't really enjoy making things myself (as I know that someone in my house is breathing down my neck for any extra time that I spend on this hobby). Bensaf - You made the 2000th post in this log. Sure not as spectacular than the number 1000 was, but still special. I would like to use this chance to thank all people that have contributed in one way or another to not only drive this log but also help me to get the tank where it is now. Does that mean I will slow down? No way, I still have miles to go before the tank is done, if ever. Algae will have to be defeated, an aquascape has to be created, more fish need to be added ( - first I have to sell another 30 Espei though), and what not. Thanks again to all of you, Ingo |
Posted 27-Apr-2006 11:30 | |
dan76 Big Fish Always Reading Posts Posts: 343 Registered: 08-Jul-2003 | ingo , when i was at high school i was very inept at practical things , but good at theory, didnt want to go to university so i decided to become a tradesman, best decision ever. i would encourage everybody to look into it , as manual skills are just something you learn and really do give a feeling of achievement when you can do stuff around the house that looks good and satisfys (sp?) the need . also in australia trades pay really well at the moment with the skilled labour shortage , i earn just on 6 figures a year for 40 hours a week and get to go home to have smoko and lunch each day . a pretty good wicket for 7 to 330 each day . if you want work pm me ha ha ha cheers dan |
Posted 27-Apr-2006 12:37 | |
dan76 Big Fish Always Reading Posts Posts: 343 Registered: 08-Jul-2003 | also dont forget the mattenfilter was a complete failure , 150 dollars aus for foam that doesnt last a month |
Posted 27-Apr-2006 12:40 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | What would that be good for?Ok, I won't do it then. I only thought to do it, in case I don't invert, but instead put it on it's side and in doing so, the inner would be visible. Thought it would be less noticeable if it matched the general substrate, instead of standing out with it's clay pot colour. Maybe I'll look around for some kind of cave ornament/s instead, & completely wrap them in java moss. I like the drilling holes in wood idea too, but don't think I have time to find or soak the wood, before I have to bring the fish home. Most of the articles on the fish I'm getting, including those links you gave me (thanks), talked about greater breeding success using the pots, but none mentioned the gluing bit. Have to decide soon, as my fish have arrived in Oz now & are currently in QT (either with Customs or the LFS - not sure which). And there'll be no pots or ornaments in my planted tank (just my natural rocks & plants). |