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LITTLE_FISH 125G Log | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | How about some Staghorn on the Cyperus Helferi: Cyperus Helferi |
Posted 18-Feb-2006 21:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And the same algae on the gravel: Staghorn |
Posted 18-Feb-2006 21:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now some thread algae on the Red Rubin Sword: Red Rubin Sword |
Posted 18-Feb-2006 21:39 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And last but not least, even the new driftwood is getting a la Driftwood |
Posted 18-Feb-2006 21:40 | |
ChaosMaximus Enthusiast Posts: 163 Kudos: 39 Votes: 9 Registered: 15-Dec-2005 | LF, Hey, even your algae looks nice . They are good pictures. I was just wondering if thats duckweed floating on the top of the tank or if its something else. It looks cool. Chaos |
Posted 18-Feb-2006 22:32 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | The center group with wood and Star Grass is looking nice, I think Holy Maintenance! It does look nice, but are you crazy putting that stargrass around all that wood. I think you know my humble opinion on your algae. Forget how much no3, po4 and micros your dosing, this has more to do with light and waste. With your light you have less wiggle room and more room for the algae to creep back in, especially after a major change like you did. My Scapes |
Posted 18-Feb-2006 23:04 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Chaos - Yeah, that is duckweed, but I would advise against it on a small tank as it can spread really fast and shade the whole tank. My tank is pretty much covered in 3 to 4 weeks, although I always only leave a few in. Tetratech - I need more plants, darn Ingo |
Posted 18-Feb-2006 23:55 | |
bodangit Hobbyist Posts: 97 Kudos: 37 Votes: 10 Registered: 19-Jan-2006 | Wad the algae up into a ball and make some tribbles! ________________________________________________ I like Led Zeppelin. |
Posted 19-Feb-2006 05:19 | |
Dr. Bonke Moderator Posts: 367 Kudos: 215 Votes: 36 Registered: 15-Apr-2004 | Ingo, Looking at the last few algae photos I'm getting a slight deja vu. The stuff on the wood and plants look exactly the way it did on mine before it got completely covered. And yesterday I too found a few threads of staghorn in my tank I'm going to follow you very closely now to see how you will get rid of that Otherwise, great looking! |
Posted 19-Feb-2006 09:16 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | bodangit - hm, thanks, I guess Dr. - I had worse algae before, at the time my tank was not established yet. It makes perfect sense that similar events happen now, given that a) I thinned out the plant mass by at least 50% b) I uprooted all but one species (although interestingly it is the one with the most threads and staghorn) Actually, the Cyperus had already some algae while the tank was redone. It definately came from the Xmas moss that was on the rocks and jumped over to leaves of the Cyperus as they bend onto the moss. As a slow grower, it makes sense that the algae feels pretty happy there. Although I haven't made my mind up completely yet, I am pretty sure that I will start one week of Excel treatment today (after the water change). Ingo |
Posted 19-Feb-2006 11:19 | |
dan76 Big Fish Always Reading Posts Posts: 343 Registered: 08-Jul-2003 | |
Posted 19-Feb-2006 12:11 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Yeah Dan, All the entries I make in your threads, you owe me quite a few The rainbows are doing just fine. The peruse the tank, sometimes alone and sometimes as a group, but no tight schooling. I also see some males having interest in the ladies, but I would be surprised if any fry would turn up any time soon. And keep on posting, will ya Ingo |
Posted 19-Feb-2006 12:14 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | The Rotala is stunting. That and the algae my first impression would be low Nitrates. I'm not a fan of the daily dosing routine you are doing. Trying to micro manage and limit the doses is troublesome. Some plants can grab N quicker and easier then others. By try to add just enough per day is running the risk of one or more species getting left out of the food hunt. Dosing about 10ppm 3 times (more then even the nest tank can consume in a day) a week will ensure everything gets it's share. I also see what looks like some white dots on the rotala leaves. White dots on this plant would indicate FE shortage. Again, I'd be looking at nutrients and adding more. Start with Co2 and N. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 19-Feb-2006 16:03 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Weekly Tank Update - Week 21 Well, as has been discusses, I am having a small Algae problem. I couldn't do to much with the tank during the week and during todays water change as my back went out on Wednesday from too much snow shoveling. What I did was that I added about ten smaller stems of the Bacopa from my 29G, just to increase the plant mass a little. Also, ba Today, I added 1tsp Potassium Nitrate and 1/4 tsp of Potassium Phosphate. Also 50ml of Excel. I will add 20ml of TMG later, just to get the micros a head start. Tomorrow I will add another 30 ml of TMG, the following day the macros again, and the following day 30ml of TMG. From there on it will be the same amount on alternate days. Plus 20ml of Excel on all days (for a week). I also replaced the sponge in the reactor with a new one, just in case, and beefed up the CO2 to "just below constant stream". Pictures of this weekly update will be the last 3 weeks since this setup came into being. There is for sure some growth to be seen, in particular the Star Grass likes it in there ( right tetratech? ). Ingo |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 01:22 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Week 19, just after replanting: Week 19 |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 01:23 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 01:23 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 01:24 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Star grass is going nuts. I would work that has the high point and slide everything down to the corners 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 01:47 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | I know your having some algae problems, but the tank is looking good and will look amazing once it fills in even more. Today, I added 1tsp Potassium Nitrate and 1/4 tsp of Potassium Phosphate Curious why are you adding n and p in a 4 to 1 ratio? I must be missing something. My Scapes |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 02:11 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Curious why are you adding n and p in a 4 to 1 ratio? I must be missing something. 1 tspn of KH2PO4 doesn't give the same ppm of phosphate as 1 tspn of KNO3 gives ppm of NO3. So even if does 4:1 powder doesn't equate to 4:1 ppm. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 03:42 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | So even if does 4:1 powder doesn't equate to 4:1 ppm. Glad it's an Estimate Index. When I check the fertiliator (assuming it's correct) I would have 5.9ppm to 1.8ppm of N to P, a 3.3:1 ratio if I dosed the same way. I forget it's late. What is your source of N and what is your nephew's? My Scapes |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 06:45 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Should have checked my calculator before I said anything shouldn't I ? Strangley Chuck's calculator differs it gives a result of 7.26ppm of NO3 and 1.77 PO4. Pretty close to a 4:1 ratio Hmmm.... I wouldn't worry about the P, but that number for N is a bit low , and if the Fertilator is correct I'd consider that a very low dose I'd definately be looking at upping my NO3 dosing. This nothing to do with ratios , it's just not enough NO3 going in IMO. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 08:40 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech and bensaf, Glad you bring up the calculation again, as I haven't used any calculator in a while. I would assume that at best I have 115G of water, if not down to 100G. With the 115G I get around 8ppm of N from 1tsp of KNO3. True, this may be a little too low, but what about all the N-forms that are produced by over 100 fish? P would be at 115G around 2ppm at 1/4tsp, that may be too high, so maybe I should go down to 1/8tsp. Inparticular because my tab has P as well (supposedly, when measured a way while back, 2ppm). Any thoughts? Wings - thanks for the suggestion, I will see more when the plants have settled yet again Ingo |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 12:53 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Wow that is something I haven't thought of. Less water to treat because of all the junk in the tank. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 15:20 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Wings, Yeah, I think when you have such a big tank that has an overall volume of 125G then you see some major differences in net volume. What I don't know is if these deductions (like over 200lbs of gravel, various rocks, and the wood) have been considered when the calculator formulas have been put in place. Ingo |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 15:34 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | You have to start displacing a fair amount of water with all the gravel, wood and rocks. Then as your plant mass grows that has to have some effect too. Maybe not as much as the rocks and such. Food for thought though. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 15:48 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | but what about all the N-forms that are produced by over 100 fish? Forget about it. You can't measure it so don't think about it. The fish waste will be in the form of NH4. Plants will consume this before they consume NO3, it's easier to access the nitrogen in NH4. So if the NO3 is being consumed it means the NH4 is also being consumed.Beforehand. NO3 won't cause algae. The tiniest smidgen of NH4 will.This is why the idea of adding more fish to increase NO3 rather then dosing doesn't work. The fish first produce NH4, dangerous, KNO3 is inorganic and safe. Now , knowing you guys the way I do I am sure you will try to make a case that your current problems are due to fish load. Knock yourselves out. I believe your problem is low NO3. Add more and see the results.A bit more inorganic NO3 won't hurt anything. Tetra will testify as to what happened when he increased doses. I believe it was all good. /:' Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 15:56 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | What I don't know is if these deductions (like over 200lbs of gravel, various rocks, and the wood) have been considered when the calculator formulas have been put in place. Didn't need to. You do that yourself. You can enter any volume of water you like. It's up to you to calculate how much water in your tank. Just because you have a 40gal tank doesn't mean you have to key in 40gals. You can key 30,35,55 etc. But again, you don't have to be that precise. ESTIMATIVE Index. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 16:01 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I know... its all a big guess! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 16:11 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Glad it's an Estimate Index. But again, you don't have to be that precise. ESTIMATIVE Index EXACTLY, well not really. That is the key ESTIMATE. Don't worry about hardscape and exact gallon content. To excess The tiniest smidgen of NH4 will.This is why the idea of adding more fish to increase NO3 rather then dosing doesn't work. The fish first produce NH4, dangerous, KNO3 is inorganic and safe. But there is a direct relationship between fish load and algae, with light and mass being the controling factors. My Scapes |
Posted 20-Feb-2006 16:34 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Ok Ok Bensaf, I will switch to 1.25tsp of KNO3 and 1/8tsp of Potassium Phosphate, every other day . Happy now Anyway, I will bring up tetratechs point (and mine) some more. Fish load and NO3 fertilization: We all agree that plants prefer ammonia etc. over KNO3. Ammonia is only present in a tank with fish (or if someone adds fish food or ammonia for some reason). I assume (proof me otherwise) that ammonia is the same nutrient that the plant need than the one it gets from NO3. If you have no fish then all of this nutrient has to come from NO3. If fish are present then ammonia will be taken up first and only then the NO3 will be consumed. If you have a lot of fish then you may reach a point where only very little of the NO3 will be taken up because soooo much ammonia is available. Ergo, my assumption that I need less KNO3 than calculators tell you. Am I wrong? Ingo |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 01:49 | |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 02:26 | This post has been deleted |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Got bored so I took some more pictures: Here are two Crypt Wendtii surrounded by Pearl Grass. They just don't seem to grow that well in my tank(s): Crypt Wendtii |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 02:28 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | The Alternanthera starts to show itself, now that it finally gets some light: Alternanthera |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 02:29 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | The Boss of the Neons: Male Dwarf Neon Rainbow |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 02:30 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And one of my "Millions Fish" Espei |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 02:31 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, I think there is always some waste/nh4 in the tank even without any fish. Decaying plant leaves, stems, uneating food will eventually get broken down into waste. And certainly the more plants the more likely the plants will get at the nh4 before the algae has a chance, but with less mass and good light the algae have a fertile environment to take hold. Crypt Wendti: Why do you think this plant doesn't grow well? Nice pics, I really do like the rainbows. I am tempted to put a few in my tank. Do you know if they would eat my shrimp? My Scapes |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 03:22 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Ergo, my assumption that I need less KNO3 than calculators tell you. We are actually stepping back about 53 pages now. All true about the NH4. But as I said you can't quantify it. So how much do you reduce NO3 doses to account for it All this time and almost 2000 posts later you're still frightened of the nutrients. Why even bother to reduce the No3 dosing to allow for fish waste? No3 is an inorganic source of N it won't cause algae. So instead of trying to do calculations and allowances for an unknown just add the No3. A little excess won't hurt, a shortage will kick your butt At this stage of the tanks life you have a lot of plants and a large bacteria colony, NH4 will disappear almost as fast as it's produced. Keep up with the NO3 dosing, give it 2 -3 weeks and tell us what you see. For the crypt I always find they do better in planted in groups of 3 or so. They look a bit sad on their own. In groups they seem to go into competition mode and try to outgrow one another. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 03:45 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I have 9 rainbows in my 40G and they don't touch my glass shrimp. You have some other much cooler types that I don't have a clue about though. Edit: Crypts. I have two in my tank and they are growing really well. I just moved one though because I got a new anubias so I don't know what its going to do. Being the plant guy at work I have had to crpts flower. Don't know what I am doing right but its cool stuff. Oh you guys will love this... My boss today told a customer that the plants I have been feeding at work don't need any extra nutrients other than what fish are giving them...because its a big tank.... Some days.... 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 03:48 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | For the crypt I always find they do better in planted in groups of 3 or so. They look a bit sad on their own. In groups they seem to go into competition mode and try to outgrow one another. ITA with this. All my "bushy" crypts started out as a tight bunch of at least 5 individual plants. In the tank where I space out the individual (or 2-3) plants, they don't get as bushy, but spreads out runners to other parts of the tank. BTW LF, are my eyes bad or is there a little bit of green/hair algae on the leaves of your crypts? -P |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 07:51 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech - "Crypt Wendti: Why do you think this plant doesn't grow well?" I have them in the tank since the beginning. When I added them they had about the same number of leaves. Yeah, new ones came, but old ones always melted away. In none of my tanks do Crypt Wendtii have more than 5 leaves each. And I think that the Rainbows will leave the shrimp alone. Bensaf - Deal, I will keep up this dosing and see what happens. To be continued ... On my next re-arrangement I will try to group the Wendtiis. Wings - Thanks for the info. Are your crypts grouped? Paulus - Thanks to you for the cypt info as well, gives me already two people with similar experiences. And yeah, this is thread algae . That is what the recent discussion on NO3 is all about. Your eyes are just fine . Ingo |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 12:21 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Paulus, wow good eye! I had to go back and look for it. LF, Mine were not grouped. They were probably 5 inches apart. Now they are even farther apart. The once at work are not growing like mine but they are pushing flowers. I would try adding in some root tabs. They might want more nutrients. Remember our cool substraits will not last for ever. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 14:20 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | We are actually stepping back about 53 pages now Just wanted to second that emotion. Maybe it's the natural cycle of the log. Another 50 pages from now we'll wondering whether KNO3 has been causing that hair algae again |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 14:42 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Ingo - Out of curiosity, have you tested the nitrate level in your tank recently? I'm just wondering approximately how much nitrate you have with all those fish in there. -P |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 15:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks Wings for the update on your Crypts Paulus - No, I haven't tested anything in at least a month, if not longer. I used to test quite a bit in the past when I used 1.25tsp of KNO3 every other day (for a while already, not when I started) and my kit (faulty or not) read way over 20ppm, even with less fish. It took over a week of no ferts and 50% water change to get the value around or below 20ppm. Even if the kit was not accurate (tetratech strongly belives - and tested for it - that the kits show way too high of a value), I could see the tendencies and how much is consumed over time. This was the reason I switched over to daily fertilization and reduced dosage (0.5tsp per day). Ingo |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 16:22 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Fair enough. You know what I think you need? Some SAE's. They should take care of your occasional hair algae problem, provided you get a group (at least 3 for your size tank) of very young/small juveniles. I know it doesn't solve the root of the problem, but sometimes you can go nuts (or round in circles, in your case ) trying to figure out every minute detail when we know there are a lot of variables (fish stock, amount of waste, plant mass, etc.) at any given time that could contribute to the problem. Just keep dosing the macros. I know SAE's can get fat and lazy when they get big (esp. when they're alone), but since you have a lot of voracious fish in that tank (espei, rainbows) the SAE's should be outcompeted for food and grow slowly. Just my 2c. Cheers, -Paulus -P |
Posted 21-Feb-2006 23:18 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | My SAE hasn't got fat and lazy yet, he's a very active member in the tank, although he doesn't eat as much algae as he used to, he can be seen nibbling when he's hungry. I tend to underfeed, then sometimes I offer algae flakes before offering the regular flakes. This tends to get him thinking right again, and it seems to be good for the other fish as well. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 22-Feb-2006 00:40 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | It was mentioned a little above this entry that my algae and nutrient issues have been discussed 53 pages back. Well, SAE have been discussed maybe 15 pages back and overall there seem to have been more disadvantages than advantages. I initially thought I would like to have them, but couldn't find any in the LFSs, then I decided not to get them and a week later the LFS had a whole tank full. So for the time being, no SAE for my tank, but thanks anyway for thinking about it as an option . Ingo |
Posted 22-Feb-2006 01:08 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Gang, I added a plant ID thread in this forum, if you haven't done so already, could you be so kind and try to help me with the ID by Clicking Here. Thanks in advance, Ingo |
Posted 22-Feb-2006 12:05 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Well, It is 3 days since my last entry and not much has happened that would be worth mentioning, except: I have been following the new fert routine to the dot, meaning every other day 1.25tsp of KNO3 and 1/8tsp Potassium Phosphate, and the days between 40ml of TMG. In addition, after the water change I added 50ml of Excel and then every following day 20ml. I was curious if this would help the thread/staghorn algae that seemed to be starting to become an issue. Did it help? No - this kind of algae is still there, spreading even further. Unfortunately, I am now also getting BBA on a few plants, like the leaves of the Cyperus Helferi and Crypt Retrospiralis. Also, the Anubias Nana and Barteri have some odd black markings on them that I cannot identify. It looks like someone had blown dirt over the plants and some of it adhered to the leaves. I will try to take a picture of it a little later in the day. Also, I will measure some parameters, I for one thing bet you that I will get very high readings of Nitrate and Phosphate. This are the times when my tank makes me angry as I seem to be incapable of figuring out the right levels of ferts. Or maybe it isn't the tank that makes me angry, maybe (most likely) it is myself. Ingo |
Posted 25-Feb-2006 11:28 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Also, the Anubias Nana and Barteri have some odd black markings on them that I cannot identify. It looks like someone had blown dirt over the plants and some of it adhered to the leaves. Ingo, do you remember me mentioning the "black algae" on the leaves of some of my plants in my thread (3rd post)? I'm pretty sure it's the same one you're seeing in your anubias. Still don't know what really caused it, but it hasn't come back since I removed the stems that had it. -P |
Posted 25-Feb-2006 13:36 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Paulus, It seems to be different as you say your leaves turned black beginning at the edges. My edges are fine, there are little specles all over the leaf surface. I used to have the algae that started on the edges and that was for sure BBA. And it reacted very well to the Excel treatment. Ingo |
Posted 25-Feb-2006 13:53 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Nope, the one I was referring to looked more like black dusting over the leaf surface, particularly in the middle area (not edges). It was most ounced on the hygro polysperma & stricta's leaves. I can't rub the black off with my fingers, they seem to be fused to the leaves. -P |
Posted 25-Feb-2006 16:17 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Ok, here is a picture that shows what I mean (Paulus, just like yours? ). It seems to be not confined to any particular part of the tank, and exists on probably 40% of all my Anubias leaves. Grrrrrr Spot Stuff |
Posted 25-Feb-2006 17:36 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Gang, I just did my water change, but not before measuring Nitrates and Phosphates. To my surprise, the Nitrates seem to be within the level, maybe a little over 20ppm (maybe even 30) but not what I expected. Phosphates, on the other hand, are where I expected them, 5ppm. Way too much, just like the last time when I dosed them rather frequently (then I caught it only when it was already 10ppm). I have faith in my phosphate test kit, believe it or not, as I performed extensive dosing tests to the tank to see how the kit will change colors. I have a tab of 2ppm, which should be the maximum given 20ppm of Nitrate. I will cut back on phosphate dosing, I started already by not adding any today, just the 1.25tsp of KNO3 (plus all the other stuff, baking soda, Equilibrium). The Retrospiralis hasn't taken too kindly on the separation into smaller plants when I did the major overhaul a few weeks back. In good crypt fashion, half the leaves have been or are melting. Similar, the narrow leaf sags have some melting going on, they are also not too wild about the replanting. An interesting fact: I finished 1 pound (US Pound) of KNO3 today. Just for the fun of it, this means: - The tank is up and running for 154 days - I added about 2.9432g per day (1 pound = 453.28g) - This means I added about 0.54tsp per day - And it means I added 3.81 ppm per day I also removed the rock on the right and replaced it by planting this area with clippings of my Narrow Leaf Ludwigia from the 20G (needed trimming anyway). I figured if I don't like it I can take it out again, but more plant mass is probably good right now. Pictures will follow tomorrow, Any input is appreciated, Ingo |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 00:46 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Ingo, yup I've seen those spots before on my anubias' and radican sword's leaves. The ones on my hygros are more like black dusting, not as distict spots. Could be the same thing though, just shows up different on different leaves. Oh well, I guess we'll just have to wait until bensaf identifies it. -P |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 01:01 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Ingo, In regards to the anubias pic. Isn't that a form of beard/brush algae. Interesting facts about no3 consumation. Did you buy the no3 from gregwatson. If your not placing a full order you could use the Greenlight Stump Remover available at Lowes. It's pure potassium nitrate. Looking forward to seeing your pics, manana My Scapes |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 01:10 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Ingo, check out this thread I think you'll enjoy it. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?p=94640#post94640 My Scapes |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 02:06 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Looks like brand new BBA. Check and re-check Co2. I've had similar stuff, it just stayed that way never got furry like older BBA. I trimmed it off. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 16:06 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks all for your input on the Anubias spots. I bet you it is Phosphate related. 5ppm is just too much. My CO2 is turned up higher than ever before, too fast to count bubbles and almost a constant flow of air (well, not air but CO2, you know what I mean). Anyway, I went to the ba Here is the beam falling into the tank: Let there be light |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 16:33 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is another one. A real close-up of the light hitting just the top of a Pearl Grass. The colors are broken down by the tank glass I guess, but I liked it. Pearl in the light |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 16:35 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And lastly, the top of the Star Grass got an extra load of light. Yeah, I know it is time to trim it as it begins to float along the surface, so maybe next weekend I am going to do that. Stars in the light |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 16:36 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Interesting pics, but is the reason your showing this because their nice to look at or are you feeling it is related to your algae issue? I forget did you start getting the algae before you rescaped with the wood. I think you were, but it got worse after the rescape. We are living by the same code as far as ferting (I like that word) , the only real difference is lighting and I guess stocking levels. Again I don't think tweaking ferts here and there is going to change anything. Remember it's an estimative index. My 2 cents if you want it is: 1.Do semi-weekly water changes. With the python it's really not that big of a deal. 2.Pack as much biomaterial you can into your Eheim. Use purigen in the filter as well. 3.Add floating plants 4.Feed less (I'm not saying your overfeeding, but just feed less) 5.I'm sure you doing this, but make sure you do the tetra dance in full attire at least twice a week. You could do it during the water changes to save time. My Scapes |
Posted 26-Feb-2006 21:28 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Weekly Tank Update - Week 22 I will incorporate tetratech's last entry here in this weeks update as it relates directly to the issues at hand, namely algae. Well, first of all - no, the sun beam pictures were posted purely for their artistic value, even if I am not that much of an artist . I don't think that the 1 minute when the light hits the tank (and it is just a reflection of light from the neighbor's house, not even direct light) has anything to do with algae. And tetratech - I don't think we are in the same boat with ferting. Every time when I dose Phosphates I have problems like this one. It might be a coincidence because I always tend to dose more by the broad rules after major changes, but I strongly believe that 5ppm of Phosphates does not mean that I "micro manage my macros" - this is 250% of what the Phosphate should be. My tab content is very different than yours and yes, my fish are creating phosphates as well. No more phosphate adding for the next 2 weeks . Overall, I added two crypts to the tank that are still small, but seem to start to develop new roots - a good sign. Certain plants, in particular the Star Grass, are growing like mad, while others develop black spots (BBA, as Bensaf points out) or are even reduced in number (Duckweed - but don't tell me I am low on KNO3). I added clippings of Narrow Leaf Ludwigia from the 20G to the right hand side to increase the bioload. EDIT: Feeding a little less sounds good, and yeah - I will try the dance more often, if it helps . No more talk, more pictures . Here is a nice shot of the Alternanthera, for the first time ever this plant is really kicking into gear. Alternanthera reineckii |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 00:56 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a picture showing the cuttings of the Narrow Leaf Ludwigia. As you can see, they are very small but the plant is a fast grower, or at least used to be when it was in the tank originally. If all goes well then I will have to trim it the first time in about three weeks. Narrow Leaf Ludwigia |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 00:59 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now, for the full tank shots I don't want to bother you with too many pictures of the same, with just minor growth differences. In anyway, a fair comparison can only be made within the current design, and that is only 4 weeks old. Here is the tank immediately after the dust had settled from the major overhaul: Week 19 |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 01:03 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is the tank today. All looks good from the distance, but up close the algae is really kicking into full gear. The Star Grass really needs a trimming soon, probably next weekend, if not sooner. Oh, BTW, I was in the city today and went to a fish store there. Loads and loads of BBA, huge, in almost all of their tanks, plus many fish with fin rot and what not, plus too many dead ones. All plants in bad shape (they even had 2 bushels of Pearl Grass). But the Dwarf Rainbows were half the price then they are here, but I am proud of myself, I resisted . Week 22 |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 01:07 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, I really like what your tank is turning into. Starting to look a little jungle like again though. Not that thats all bad because we can see your 2x4's sticking out of it. Edit: On the scape of things... I really think you should work high in the middle to low on the outsides. I am not a big fan of the tall stuff in the back corners. Maybe put that in the middle behind or on the edge of the star grass. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 02:22 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | And tetratech - I don't think we are in the same boat with ferting. Every time when I dose Phosphates I have problems like this one. It might be a coincidence because I always tend to dose more by the broad rules after major changes, but I strongly believe that 5ppm of Phosphates does not mean that I "micro manage my macros" What I meant was that we are both following the same basic EI dosing principle and the differences in the two tanks are light and maybe fish load. It's strange because I once had unexplained high po4 levels in my tank until I finally realized it was the corrupted eco complete, but I was getting po4 levels in the 50+ppm range. but I strongly believe that 5ppm of Phosphates does not mean that I "micro manage my macros" I never said that you are micro managing your macros. That's just a general statement ba My Scapes |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 04:09 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | That section in the middle is gorgous, LF. I was genuinely excited when I saw that pic. |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 05:05 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | No more phosphate adding for the next 2 weeks I think this is a bad idea. The idea behind EI is to get yourself into a routine of dosing so your plants always have what they need. I think you should keep dosing, but do less. I'm in your boat with the PO4 LF, but I'm going to dose it. No matter how small an amount I find keeps the levels around 1-2 ppm, that's what I'm going to do. For me it's very easy to first dissolve the powder from Greg Watson into a 2L bottle so that 1mL = .15ppm of PO4 in my tank using Chuck's calculator. Right now that's what I'm dosing every other day. My tap provides the rest. I may still need to increase the dosing as this was a lowball estimate, but I'm going to dose it and stick to it until I find I need to increase or decrease it. If I were you, that's what I'd do. You don't have a real nasty algae problem, your plants are growing. Stick to it and dose small amounts until your tank levels off at 2ish ppm of PO4. This might take a while, but at least you'll find the right amount to be consistant. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 06:24 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Wings, tetratech, NowherMan6, and Matty, Thanks for your input Wings - I agree with your, building from the visual center down towards the sides would look very nice and I envision something like that (at least for the moment) in the future. But I cannot afford to disrupt the plants currently as they are just beginning to recover from the major replant. As for right now, I will have to stick to this "design". tetratech - No, I didn't mean to say that you imply I would not follow EI and that I would micro manage. Sorry about that misunderstanding, I was just using your siggie line as a guide for my words. What surprises me though is that I cannot get a clear "You are right, 5ppm Phosphate is too much" out of anyone here . NowherMan6 - Yeah, that part is nice, maybe because it kind of copies tetratech's center piece section . I guess I will have to order a bunch of wisteria now and replace all other parts with that plant . Matty - I gave your suggestion quite some thought, even before you made it. Actually, I thought about this already when I had the 10ppm of Phosphate quite a while back. Why do I not want to add more P in the next two weeks: Traditionally I have noticed that my P uptake is not really strong, so a small amount of P is very sufficient (around 2ppm with minimal dosing to keep it there). Having had 5ppm before the 50% water change and having tab water with about 2ppm should give me around 3.5ppm right now. Let's assume that there will be a 1ppm uptake during this week (which I doubt), then I have 2.5ppm before the next water change and after that there should be around 2.25ppm of P. What I may do is dose just a little in the second week, towards the end. The conceptual issue I have is that I cannot understand that the plants would make any use of more P than necesairy. We all know that EI says a tenth of N in P (20ppm N and 2ppm P) should be more then the plants can "eat". There seems to be zero advantage (and maybe loads of disadvantages) to being over that level. So, why would I dose any, even tiny, amount? Anyway - Just to make it all more complicated: After my latest entry I went ahead and perused the web focussing on Duckweed. I tried to find a reference that would state something like "High P will kill Duckweed". Unfortunately the opposite was true, it appears that Duckweed likes high P, darn. So, if that is the case, why do I have almost none left in the tank? Yeah, I removed a lot last weekend, but usually it is coming right back. I doubt that the test kits are so off that I would actually be starving P (and N, for that matter). The only other thing I can think off is my Excel treatment which I did during the entire week. Maybe, just like Egeria, Duckweed doesn't do well with a heavy dose of Excel. This would also explain why my other two tanks are Duckweed free, even with the occasional seeding of duckweed. K, enough rambling for now. You all know how I feel as you all have been in this situation (yeah, same boat tetratech ) when you think you got something figured out and the next thought is reversing the whole logic. Thanks for sticking with me, Ingo |
Posted 27-Feb-2006 12:04 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I did some minor water testing last night to see if I actually have enough CO2. Just because I inject an almost constant stream wouldn't have to be equal to good CO2. So I tested for ph and KH ph = 6.5 KH = 4 (I added a little more baking soda than usual) That means my CO2 should be around 38 to 40ppm. I guess that is sufficient, right? Ingo |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 18:48 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | 38-40 should be fine. but if you're getting BBA then maybe it's not fine enough... BTW, you add baking soda? Do you do this after WCs? What's your baking soda dosing schedule and why do you do it? |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 19:02 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, I have a clear head right now, so let me interject some very sensible logic. You say your ph is 6.5 and your kh is 4 so you have 39ppm. Yes that sounds lovely. But let's say for argument purposes your ph is really 6.6 and your kh is 3.5 (which is totally possible) now your co2 is 26ppm. Still not bad, but... what if your ph is really 6.7 and your kh is 3 now your have co2 of 18ppm (Not as likely, but still very possible). I have to defer to the great one. (In our little aqua world anyway). "Look at the fish, look at the plants. They will tell you more than some test kit" My Scapes |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 19:10 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | I have to defer to the great one. (In our little aqua world anyway). "Look at the fish, look at the plants. They will tell you more than some test kit" Wayne Gretzky said that? Hm, I don't recall. Maybe it was during his one season with the St. Louis Blues.... ... if not that, then I assume you're talking about Bensaf. Now I know this has been argued over and over again but I'm still hanging on to the test kit lifeline. Are they all really that unreliable, even ph? If a test kit says 5ppm P, are we supposed to just not believe it and keep adding anyway? |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 19:28 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Yeah Bensaf, not Wayne. I'm such a suck up There really is no way with a color strip IMO to know exactly what your ph is, so as I showed if the true number is off a little from your test kit than it could mean a big difference in the co2 number, so yeah look at the fish. I could tell you I have constant stream of bubbles and my fish are all looking fine and my tank is 2 feet shorter than LF. As far as the 5ppm reading, you would hope that would be fairly accruate 4 to 6ppm but who knows. My Scapes |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 19:40 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Wayne Gretzky said that? Well, I for sure cannot guarantee that I have a ph of 6.5, maybe it is 6.7 or 6.3. I guess I could try to hook up my expensive ph testing device that I never used. Darn, I don't even remember what it is called . Anyway, yes NowherMan6, I use Baking Soda. After each water change I add about 2tsp of baking soda to the tank to increase my KH which is normally from the tab about 1 KH . Ingo |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 20:58 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Yeah Bensaf, not Wayne. I'm such a suck up Well he did give you mad props on your tank, so you owe him some serious rear-end smooching. There really is no way with a color strip IMO to know exactly what your ph is, so as I showed if the true number is off a little from your test kit than it could mean a big difference in the co2 number, so yeah look at the fish. I could tell you I have constant stream of bubbles and my fish are all looking fine and my tank is 2 feet shorter than LF. It just seems like test kits are useless if you're right. I mean what's the point? Is there even a range within which they're accurate? For example, my ph test kit shows that before lights out, ph is 6.2 or under - it's a very light yellow. At first I was shocked by this because that would mean my CO2 is in the 90ppm range and my fish should be dead. But they're fine, no gasping at the surface at all, except for some normal gourami air breating. I'm even getting algae growth and my plant growth has slowed down considerably. There clearly isn't too much CO2, maybe even not enough according to the plants... but the test kit says otherwise. How would you advise proceeding? All this test kit stuff has got me bothered. I'm afraid to even test my phosphates now... EDIT: Thanks LF. My kH is also low, it's a 2. I may do the same to bump it up a bit. And I don't mean to hijack your thread with the above, it just seemed like an appropriate place to ask because the subject was breached earlier. |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 21:01 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | NowherMan6, so you owe him some serious ... Talking about test kits is not highjacking at all, this is right on topic. Just like an addict, when I have problems in the tank then I dig out the ole test kit and measure like a madman . Although I have to say that this time around I measured P, N, ph, and KH exactly once. I was not going for absolute numbers but rather for comparison to measurements over the last 22 weeks, in good times and in bad (yes, I am married to the tank ). When looking at the recent values I only find one that is not the same then when I was almost algae free, and that is P. Besides these measurement, the only other differences are: - more fish - less plants - plants not established Heck, besides the hardware and the substrate the whole tank has changed . Can't be that hard to pinpoint the reason for the darn thread Ingo |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 21:33 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | See that's the danger If your ph is 6.2 and your kh is 2 you have a co2 of 38ppm not 90ppm. If your ph was 6.0 and your kh still 2 than you have a co2 of 60pmm, big difference. Now if your ph is 6.0 and your kh is 3, now you have a co2 ppm of 90. Wht if your kh is really 2.5, see what I mean. My Scapes |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 21:37 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | more fish So what's the problem . Waste, Mass and all that ....light. Now repeat after me "Sung to the tune of all the Jazz" Waste, mass and all that light, waste, mass and all that light. My Scapes |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 21:40 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Now if your ph is 6.0 and your kh is 3, now you have a co2 ppm of 90. Wht if your kh is really 2.5, see what I mean. Exactly, that's why I'm mad as heck about these test kits, I have no idea. The shade of yellow is between the shades on the chart. Impossible to know.Any more of this and I'm going to just crank the CO2, test kits be damned. I'm almost at the breaking point. Waste, Mass and all that ....light. Now repeat after me "Sung to the tune of all the Jazz" Waste, mass and all that light, waste, mass and all that light. Tetra, you've clearly gone mad with power due to the success of your tank. Come down from the edge.... |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 21:51 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | due to the success of your tank Well, it is a pretty tank I have to say But don't worry, I assume it is just a question of time until the S hits the F . The Wisteria will revolt and decides that it deserves to be the tallest plant in the tank. The Riccia will have enough of being put in a hairnet and cuts itself lose. The oh so secret Stellata turns into a bean stalk, and the Star Grass into mush because it can't stand the dancing in front of the tank. Ingo |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 22:12 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | A guy posts some pics of his tank and the master makes some nice comments and this is what I get: Oh tetra, when your tank is covered in slimy brown staghorn and thread alage we'll look back and say that your hubris was your downfall. Reminds me of that famous ending line in Oedipus rex. But don't worry, I assume it is just a question of time until the S hits the F . The Wisteria will revolt and decides that it deserves to be the tallest plant in the tank. The Riccia will have enough of being put in a hairnet and cuts itself lose. The oh so secret Stellata turns into a bean stalk, and the Star Grass into mush because it can't stand the dancing in front of the tank. And I thought wes were friends Don't worry you protists lovers, I'll get even My Scapes |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 23:09 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | What do you expect, you're the best of the best now. reminds me of that Far Side cartoon about the cowboy ping-pong pla Well tetra, every foreceps packin' plant person from Queensland to Queens, NY is gonna come lookin for ya... |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 23:18 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | You guys are seriously cracking me up! Seriously though, I think tetra (aka grand wizard, mr. all that, etc. ) has a point about lights. In my tanks I've observed that as soon as I upgrade them to the higher light territory (>2.5wpg), there's a very delicate balance between good plant growth and algae appearance (which I haven't quite figured out yet ), all factors (plant mass, fish mass, ferts, CO2) being equal (or similar). In my lower light tanks, I get little to no visible algae, and even when I do, it's easily fixed. With higher light, there's less margin for error, so to speak. Then again, maybe I'm still dreaming (just got up). -P |
Posted 28-Feb-2006 23:59 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Nowher I guess I'll have to be really careful what I say, cause you all will be gunning for me at the Fish Profile Corral. Upikabu, 100% correct with the lighting. I mean if you have enough plants and the conditions are good the plants will take advantage of the extra light and grow better, but if the other conditions aren't "upgraded" to take advantage of the new light then that's a big crack for the protist army to march on Rome. Speaking of Rome, I hung up a pic of ChaosMaximus's tank as motivation to keep up with my maintenance and fert schedule. I think if nowher and LF hang up his pic too, they'll feel a whole lot better about their tanks. Sorry Chaos My Scapes |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 00:38 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | We all know that EI says a tenth of N in P (20ppm N and 2ppm P) should be more then the plants can "eat". There seems to be zero advantage (and maybe loads of disadvantages) to being over that level. So, why would I dose any, even tiny, amount? There's no way you will find that sweet spot in the dosing routine if you stop, start, stop, start. You will be condemned to eternal suffering not knowing how much to dose. I'd say that if you want to go ahead and zero the tank for the next two weeks, just start up with really slow dosing from there, like I said as little as .15ppm a day If you think that's all your plants need beyond what's in the tap. I'm only going to test until I figure out how much I need beyond what's in the tap. IMO, Test kits are good enough to be taken with a grain of salt. The NO3 and PO4 test kits can be "calibrated" by testing them with a known solution made using Chuck's calculator. Tom Barr has done all the research to show us we don't need exact values for this stuff anyways. This is only to double check our work. First, we have Tom's work to show us with the use of large water changes, an average can be maintained. Then we have the plants to show us if something is amiss. And lastly we have the test kits to explain maybe why something is up. I feel your pain with the pH test kits, Nowherman. These things are awful hard to read. If the color in the tube is between colors in the chart, then the number is between those. But I have a hard time telling which colors it's inbetween. I had a thread about a week ago about getting a pH controller(By the way LF I'll give you $50 for that thing). The thing with this is that we do want to be exact, and IMO the resolution on the liquid test kits is nowhere near where we need it to be. This is due to the logarithmic nature of the pH scale. A small difference and you can be WAAAAY off. Oh, and did someone say St. Louis Blues....?(sorry I had to) Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 00:59 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | How would you advise proceeding? How to proceed without test kits is easy enough. Just add a known quantity of nutrients each week. Then you are in control. Observing the tank will pretty much show the rest. Plants like Hygro will show N and K deficiencies very quickly. Holes in old leaves will show lack of K, fall off or yellowing of old leaves will show a lack of N. Plants like Mayacca or red plants will show FE levels by their color. Want to be sure the Co2 is good. Keep upping it until the fish show a sign of dis-comfort then pull it back just a notch. Or watch the growth, speed size etc, appearance of green spot or BBA will indicate the Co2 is not as good as it should be. Still getting green spot algae P can be pushed higher. The test kits are inaccurate to start with, the color charts are difficult to read etc. Look at the difference in the color and growth in tetras tank (envy is a terrible things boys, leave him be ) since he added more nutrients. Matty makes a good point that constant chopping and changing of routines is bad for both the tank and you. Stability is important for the tank, constant change makes it diffult to pinpoint issues, you get lost easily. Usually upping things solve problems, reducing rarely does, more often then not it creates new problems. I'm sure LF's problems are temporary. Theres a big job done, lot's of mulm kicked in the water. Mulm will cause problems, a big clean up should be done at least once a year. BGA for example can use it for carbonate. I didn't like the daily dosing routine. I'm sure by upping the N (as a reference to above, his reineckii was doing bad, it's doing better now since he added more N, I'm telling you from experience that if N is low eineckii will stunt and twist and curl it's leaves like nobody, give it N and it'll right itself easy enough. See I do pay attention These are the little things I always look for when somebody is having a problem. I don't go for the fanciful theories. Sometimes you guys can't see the woods for the trees, except for tetra of course, he's great ), keeping the Co2 up and keeping everything stable will stop it. In the meantime hassle it. Remove what you can, Excel blast the rest. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 04:36 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | envy is a terrible things boys, leave him be Would it be too awful of a pun to say that I'm literally green with envy over Tetra's tank? Seriously though, he's come a long way following EI, certainly a far cry from turning the old 46 into a brewery tank. He certainly found his way to the path we're all looking for. We owe him a Guiness, or at least a Murphy's Oh, and I guess we owe Tom Barr one too, for ya know, coming up with the whole EI thing... I just tossed my pH kit in the garbage with some plant clippings. We'll see where this goes. Oh and Matty- great to see another hockey fan on the boards Tough going for your Blues right now... |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 05:22 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | you get lost easilySure do Well, this was fun again Anyway, - I am back on the bi-daily fert routine with macros one and micros the other day, so that should give more stability (although I am most certain that it was Bensaf who once told me that going to daily would be more stable . - I don't think I can (or want to) do too much about the light as I have the second row on for 3 hours only. I think in this phase my plants need it to re-establish themselves. Half the light is only around 1.5wpg. - Removing much of the existing algae creates a problem on the Helferi as I would have to cut off almost all leaves. Same counts for the Red Rubin Sword and half the Anubias leaves. How would I go about the wood and rock algae? Take a pad and rub it as good as I can? I cannot remove these entities. Ingo |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 12:24 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | certainly a far cry from turning the old 46 into a brewery tank Had to get that jab in didn't ya nowher. Since you brought it up, here's a pic of me attempting to make black and tans in my kitchen. I think we should have a horror tank thread rated "r" for revolting. I think this pic would quality and I could name a few others My Scapes |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 15:11 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | How would I go about the wood and rock algae? Take a pad and rub it as good as I can? I cannot remove these entities. Yes, you should be able to get one of those algae scrubber pads pretty cheap. Just be gentle and try not to rock the boat too much and it should come off. As for the leaves, maybe take as much by hand and then... well, in theory, shouldn't the algae just die off as conditions improve Had to get that jab in didn't ya nowher. It wasn't a jab, it's one of my favorite FP member incidents. I didn't think it was as funny until I actually did DIY co2 myself and you realize the mix actually smells just like beer. Great idea for a thread, start it up in GF |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 15:23 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Yeah, I guess looking at my tank at this stage and then comparing it to others (like the brewery above, for example) should make me feel better as it really isn't all that bad But speaking off bad, or what not. I was thinking about lights and nutrients and what not this morning on the bus to work and I remembered an old entry from Bensaf where he reacted to my mass-interference (changing 15 things at the same time) by saying that even if the situation is improving I would never know why. So true As such, it seems to be actually a good idea that the only parameter that I am changing right now is Phosphates. If it doesn't help, oh well - at least we can explicitly eliminate this one from the culprit list. Which reminds me - You all seem to agree that lowering my P the way I do it would not be good. I really would appreciate if you could help me out and answer the following questions: 1) Did you ever have knowingly 5ppm (or more) of P in your tank? 2) If so, did you have more algae than usual at that time? 3) Hypothetically speaking, plants take up nutrients. Do you belive they would take up more P when there are 5ppm in the water rather than 2ppm? 4) If not, why would it matter in what form a reduction of P is achieved (stop of adding P vs. adding tiny amounts)? This are my nagging questions, I hope you don't mind Thanks in advance, Ingo |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 15:33 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | How would I go about the wood and rock algae? Take a pad and rub it as good as I can? I cannot remove these entities I'm looking for a smily with a violin, but I can't find one. Not to rub it in, but all my hardscape is removable Bu seriously, how come you don't have a bigger clean up crew in your tank, I know it's not going to solve the problem. Will the gourmai and/or rainbows eat them. Supposely Cherry shrimps eat a wide variety of algae and are very durable. Edit: Nowher I think I will start that thread, it can even be a poll, like most horrific tank situation. My Scapes |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 15:39 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | A thread of horrors, now there's one thread were I wouldn't have a suitable photo Without trimming the leaves , try applying the Ecel onto the algae directly using a syringe. 1) Did you ever have knowingly 5ppm (or more) of P in your tank? I have never owned a phosphate test kit. I have never tested for phosphate. I have no idea how much phosphate I have. It could be 1ppm , it could be 10ppm.I do know I add about 5ppm a week ! That's all I really need to know. I used to have to clean the glass a couple a times a week. I hardly ever clean it now. 2) If so, did you have more algae than usual at that time? Dunno, can somebody post a photo of algae, I've forgotten what it looks like I do know that green spot algae disappeared when I added a lot of P and was never replced by any other forms. 3) Hypothetically speaking, plants take up nutrients. Do you belive they would take up more P when there are 5ppm in the water rather than 2ppm? You miss a very important point about nutrients. Don't obsess on uptake rates or what's left behind. It doesn't matter if growth is fast or slow. It doesn't matter if the tank is full of heavy nutrient consuming plants or slow low consuming ones 9once the tank is established). It doesn't matter if there's an excess of 1 ppm or 5ppm of P. What is vital is that there is non limiting growth, whether it be fast or slow. It's niches. Non limiting growth leaves no room for algae. Repeat after me algae do not need an excess of nutrients It's illogical. They need a gap, an opening. Non limiting growth of plants keeps this door firmly shut. The only way to be certain that you have non limiting conditions is to add the nutrients yourself. Regularly. Keep the door shut. No need for test kits.With kits there will always always be a degree of uncertainty. By adding the nutrients you remove that uncertainty. By changing things slowly and allowing things to develop you can focus in on issues. Ladies and gentlemen,Elvis has left the building Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 16:04 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Interesting, LF and Nowher are both from Jersey. O.K. we'll have to work around it. Do everything Bensaf has described but use bottled water from this point forward. My Scapes |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 16:31 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Gang, Don't misunderstand my questions about this P thing as me trying to argue just for the argument sake. I really try to understand it. So please bear with me, if you have to give me the ole Violin so be it, but keep an open mind here. Call it my inexperience, or my tendency to take words in a foreign language (yes, remember - this is my second language) too literally, but I see nobody here who knows of having 5ppm of P and had no algae issues with it. Or call me crazy, I don't mind as long as you at least try to understand where I am coming from with this stuff. Here are some extracts from Tom Barr's Estimative Index: "Old myths still abound claiming excess PO4 in tap water causes algae, this has clearly been shown by many hobbyist to be patently false. The tap water has nutrients in it, then you do not have to dose these nearly as much, this is actually a good thing! Why take something out and then add it back again?" He is not saying how much is considered excess that would not cause algae, though. But he says that if it is in the tab water then you don't have to add it (as much). Then, in his section about recommended values: "PO4 range 1.0-3.0 ppm" And he continues: "I have added to almost 3ppm of PO4 consistently week after week. Plant's response is incredible." And he says "At some point the plants will not take up any more traces. Same can be said for PO4." Take the last statement and tag on Bensaf's statement of "Repeat after me algae do not need an excess of nutrients It's illogical. They need a gap, an opening. Non limiting growth of plants keeps this door firmly shut." Wouldn't that be the opening? Tom never speaks of more than 3ppm of P, and he mentions that there is an uptake limit. The gap between that limit and the currently available 5ppm is the gap, the opening. Further, Tom writes: "By knowing what the tap water is comprised of and giving the water company a call to find out what the PO4, NO3, K, and Fe levels are, you can replace the water with water changes and use plain old chemistry or Chuck's calculator to figure out what you need for your nutrient levels without a test kit." OK - P in my tab is 2ppm, right within his range. The conclusion would be that additional P is only required if P falls ba "The other issue about folks that often do not add macro nutrients/traces etc, is many do large water changes. These folks often do not know what their tap water has in it. If it is rich in NO3 and PO4 like many regions of the USA and Europe, then each week they do a large water change, they are adding nutrients and CO2. People wondered why my plants did so well with the water changes I did each week and when they tested found high levels of PO4, I was adding KNO3 and lots of traces and high light and high trace dosing and had no algae and dramatic plant health and growth." But he ends with a comment in a question that states (well known to all of us, as Bensaf uses this as his punch line ): "It assumes that deficencies, not excess causes algae." Bu yet again, he never spoke of more than 3ppm of P. Ingo |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 18:10 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, Three interesting paragraphs pulled from the EI Article. "truthfully do not know what levels of NO3 and PO4 (for example) cause problems for plants or induce algae in a fully planted tank. NO3 levels above 40ppm can cause fish health issues. PO4 at very high levels can influence alkalinity (KH) above 5ppm-10ppm." Has your KH been influenced? "It is one of the biggest unknown variables in keeping planted tanks, watts/gallon does not tell you much, but rough guides are fine if the aquarist maintain the CO2 and nutrient levels well....An important aspect of this method is the knowledge that excess nutrients do not cause algae blooms as so many authors in the past and many today still maintain without having tested this critically in aquariums with a healthy plant biomass. It is a welcomed relief knowing that “excess” phosphate, nitrate and iron do not cause algae blooms." Key word here "healthy plant biomass". So here he does leave the door open about excess nutrients and plant mass. "For many years this has been the assumption but it is incorrect. Ammonium (NH4+) at low levels have been the primary causative agent for algae blooms in terms of an "excess" nutrient. This is why a planted tank using CO2 with moderate to high lighting cannot have enough nitrogen supplied by adding progressively more and more fish to the tank without getting algae blooms. It does not take much ammonium to cause the bloom. If you add NO3 from KNO3 you will not get any algae bloom, if you add even 1/20th of the ammonium you will get a very intense algae bloom. This test can be repeated many times and ran again and again with the same result. Adding NO3 will not induce the bloom." You already know this, but you added more fish and decreased plant mass. My Scapes |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 20:17 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | You already know this, but you added more fish and decreased plant mass. Very interesting. LF, have you in fact checked for ammonia in your tank? |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 20:36 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | You know what? I haven't tested for Ammonia in ages. I assumed that the fish I physically added are nothing compared to the fish that are in there already. And these have been upping the biofilter gradually as they started of tiny (and small in numbers) and gradually increased in size (and numbers). I will check tonight Thanks, Ingo |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 21:03 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Yes, good idea Nowher you should definitely check, but just becuase your "test kit" doesn't detect anything doesn't mean there isn't enough there to feed algae. I think that is in the EI article as well, that the level might be so small. BTW - LF, contribute to the new thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/thread.aspx?id=27413&rp=2 If you have anything My Scapes |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 22:07 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech, You really created the thread, that's cool . I will see if I have a good picture that would make an impression and post it. Can't wait until Chaos adds his picture . I will measure tonight, as promised, but I also guess that I will not get any reading for Ammonia (or hope that I don't). I can imagine that I have upset the biofilter big time during my overhaul and what I have now is still the afterburner of that event. Thanks, Ingo |
Posted 01-Mar-2006 22:35 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | If a deficiency of phosphate causes algae, then how come I am not seeing lots of algae? My last test showed .5 ppm P. That's a far cry from 5 ppm! I have since added the NPK that I have, the nitrate at last test was 10 ppm, so I should now have 13.5 ppm, according to the dosing info. It may be a bit less, it may be a bit more, but I may still be short on P, would adding more food help? I'm sure the fish would enjoy it! "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 02-Mar-2006 01:09 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Wouldn't that be the opening? Tom never speaks of more than 3ppm of P, and he mentions that there is an uptake limit. The gap between that limit and the currently available 5ppm is the gap, the opening. That wouldn't qualify as a gap. The nutrients are present all the time whether it be 1ppm or 5ppm. So there's no opening there. The opening is when something is limiting plant growth. Think of it kind of like a predator constantly circling a herd waiting for a sick, weak or old prey to seperate from the herd, then he strikes. Doesn't make any difference whether there's 10 antelope or 100, he needs to wait for the sick weak one. Even a small amount (a smidgen maybe ? ) of NH4 is an opening. Note too when Tom talks about excesses it's never regarding algae issues, never. It's plant/fish toxicity, it's about causing changes in water parameters etc , but never algae. Even if your tap is 2ppm of P you'll still need some. The uptake per week should be about 3ppm , so you'll s Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 02-Mar-2006 06:45 | |
Posted 02-Mar-2006 06:47 | This post has been deleted |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | luvmykrib - If your P should be really low then you will for sure get algae, now that you have more light and DIY CO2 (if I remember that right), just give it some time Bensaf - Makes sense. Well, let me take your uptake number of 3ppm per week. I will measure what P is tomorrow and see how much has been tanken up. My uptake for sure did take a big hit with the replant a few weeks back. I guess this was the opening then. Thanks In general, I did measure and lucky didn't come up with any detectable Ammonia. Yeah, I know, there still may be some small amounts (like a nip ), but at least I am not off the scale. Thanks again all for hanging in there with my nagging P questions, Ingo |
Posted 02-Mar-2006 11:43 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | 0.5 ppm PO4, is it really low? I was reading the Tom Barr EI article and that's right in the range, is there somewhere else where he says more is better? If so, what should I be aiming for? I have only green spot algae, a tiny bit of staghorn in my 25g, more staghorn and green spot in the 10g though. Side question, what causes black beard algae and what makes it go away? I'm asking for my brother's 55g which has the stuff in it. Low-light, some plants, 2-3 years old, fairly well maintained, he's doing weekly water changes now. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 03-Mar-2006 21:55 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | luvmykrib, 0.5ppm is really low when you want to maintain a 10 to 1 balance of N to P and strive for 20ppm of N. That's at least the values I am playing with at this high tech / high light tank. Your algae (and your brothers) is most likely from a nutrient imbalance. Did you ever see This Page? It shows you some info about what algae is caused by what. BBA has an entry that says it is ba Hope this helps Anyway - I had the day off and what else is there to do when it is cold outside than tank maintenance? As such I did my weekly water change on all 3 tanks and will create my weeky update today rather than tomorrow or on Sunday. Weekly Tank Update - Week 23 The last week has seen very little to no action. I just let the plants grow, added my ferts (no P) and food, and that was it. Pretty much all week was spent on discussing how much of P is right . The plants have been doing fine and it seems the spread of thread algae is beginning to slow down or even stop (or I just got used to it). I needed to trim the Star Grass and was immediately reminded of tetratech's first attemp which concluded with bad growth for a while. As such I trimmed it only a little, just enough to allow the water to flow over it. So, with many more words, here are 3 totals over the last 4 weeks for comparison purposes. This is the tank 4 weeks ago when the current layout was just created: Week 19, new Layout |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 00:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | In week 21, 2 weeks later, some plants startedt show nice signs of growth. Others, like the Macandra, started to lose leaves and others, like the Helferi showed a major increase in thread algae: Week 21 |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 00:42 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Today, another 2 weeks later, the Star Grass is still growing strong and the Pearl Grass is picking up the pace as well. Algae is still a subject though. I also did not have another major loss of leaves on the Crypt Retrospiralis anymore, only a few melted this week: |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 00:44 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a close-up of the Alternanthera showing us how beatiful pink-purple the underside of its leaves can be. Also, have a look at the vertical leaf on the left side and how it is covered in thread algae. That is a leaf from the Red Rubin Sword Alternanthera |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 00:50 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | This close-up is for all the old and new friends of Amano Pearl Grass (right upikabu ). It is the group that grows right in front of the big branch in the middle of the tank. Some branches are growing straight up while others prefer to crawl along the substrate. I guess if I would cut off the tall branches I could achieve a nice carpet effect with the crawlers, like the Dr. does. Pearl Grass |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 00:53 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And last but not least: Who says I am fat? Seriously, the question here is if it is normal that some Otos are so much bigger than others, or if this indicates that the top right one is a female. I thought it is a nice shot: Oto and Oto and OOOOto |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 00:55 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Ingo - interesting to see the pearl grass crawling across the substrate. Do they actually send the horizontal runners themselves, or did you something special (e.g. tetra dance ) to encourage it? Nice fat otto. I assume they have plenty to eat in your tank - you only have 6 right? Your tank can probably feed triple that amount without a hitch. The 3 otos in my 23g are even fatter than yours, plenty of protists to eat I guess. Cheers! -P |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 01:20 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Seriously, the question here is if it is normal that some Otos are so much bigger than others, or if this indicates that the top right one is a female. Interesting. I have one that's the same way fatter then all the others. So much so I thought it was bloat, but it's been that fat for over a year now and still going, so it must be just obesity or a sexual difference. All the others are much slimmer. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 03:30 | |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 03:46 | This post has been deleted |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | No, I didn't do anything to tame the Pearl Grass, it decided to grow this way all on its own. As to why - I have no idea. The Otos are a miracle. Why would some under the same conditions (age, food source, tank) become so much fatter than others. I can't imagine it would have anything to do with alpha males as food is available all over the tank. Ingo |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 11:23 | |
Cup_of_Lifenoodles Fish Guru Posts: 2755 Kudos: 1957 Votes: 30 Registered: 09-Sep-2004 | Female. |
Posted 04-Mar-2006 20:19 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Producing eggs then? 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 05-Mar-2006 04:11 | |
Cup_of_Lifenoodles Fish Guru Posts: 2755 Kudos: 1957 Votes: 30 Registered: 09-Sep-2004 | Perhaps, but in general, they are already likely quite wide. As with all loricariidae, they reabsorb any eggs not laid. |
Posted 05-Mar-2006 04:38 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | very interesting! So LF where are the weekly pictures?? 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 02:30 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | I have been thinking about the P issue. Here's my thought, excess P and low light, no CO2 may cause BBA, it has in my 10g. In Ingo's tank, excess P and high light and CO2 cause...flowers! In terrestrial plants, the nutrient that encourages blooming is phosphate. Nitrogen makes things green, phosphate makes things bloom and potassium makes roots grow. How different can aquatic plants be from that? Anyway, now that it is out of my head and here in print I can get some other deep thinking done. Like why no-one has visited me in my thread lately, it's so lonely there. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 03:25 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Here's my thought, excess P and low light, no CO2 may cause BBA, Low Co2 and unstable (either high or low) Co2 will cause BBA. In a non Co2 injected tank , water changes will provide the unstable Co2 levels. Never known P to have any role in the appearance of BBA. KH, lots of mulm will have a bigger role. BBA is very good at grabbing the small amount of carbon it needs from carbonate and organic matter. Algae seems to be lousy at using inorganic sources of nutrients such as that in the KNO3 and KH2PO4 we use. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 04:35 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Taken from a page on Chuck Gadd's site, courtesy of the link Ingo posted. Red algae: Also called Black Beard Algae (bba), or Black Brush Algae. Short hairs (1/4" long), closely packed together. Appears dark green, black, or dark red. Grows on plant leaves, and sometimes on decorations/substrate. Often grows all around the edges of plant leaves. In heavily planted tanks, BBA will often show up when the plants have used up all the nitrates. This causes plant growth to slow or stop, which leaves the excess phosphates available to the algae. By supplying extra Nitrate to a planted tank, we allow plant growth to continue until all phosphate is consumed. Then plant AND algae growth will slow/stop. As long as a usable (5-10ppm) level of Nitrate is maintained, the the plants will continue to use up the available phosphate, effectively controls BBA and other phosphorus-dependant algaes. See the article "Adding Nitrate to a Planted Tank" for detailed instructions on how to increase your Nitrate levels. Thus excess of P will cause BBA, when there is not enough nitrate. I added both nitrate and phosphate together and now have BBA in my 10g tank. This tank has no CO2, has 1.5 wpg, and is pretty fully stocked. There was no BBA before the addition of the NPK. My 25 on the other hand has .5ppm of P, better light, 2.5 wpg, CO2 at a steady level and no BBA. But really, my idea was more that Ingo seems to get flowers more often than anyone else and it could be the P that is making it happen. He must have a good balance of nutrients including P to make the plants bloom the way they do. Have to admit I'm jealous and am starting to beg my anubiuas to put out even a little flower! "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 04:49 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | speaking of flowering plants. I have had two crypts flower at work. All I give them is some excel every other day. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 05:30 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | I knew someone else had them flower, couldn't remember who. What's the PO4 level in your tanks that have had flowers? Any idea? It's just a theory ba "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 05:35 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I have no idea how much P the tanks at work have in them. I only way they are getting it is from fish food because I don't thing the kool steril system lets that through but i could be wrong. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 05:39 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Fish food, fish poop, are just 2 ways of P getting in, water changes if it's in the water supply is another way. Generally store tanks are overstocked and over filtered to compensate, but they must still get some P build-up, I don't think UV gets rid of it, but I could be wrong on that. My water supply from the city goes through UV and it still gets to me with a hardness of 300, and who knows what else. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 05:43 | |
Cup_of_Lifenoodles Fish Guru Posts: 2755 Kudos: 1957 Votes: 30 Registered: 09-Sep-2004 | UV generally removes only organic contaminants such as bacterium. Hardness salts should remain unaffected. |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 05:50 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Does it also remove phosphates? "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 06:25 | |
Cup_of_Lifenoodles Fish Guru Posts: 2755 Kudos: 1957 Votes: 30 Registered: 09-Sep-2004 | Not that I'm aware of. |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 07:38 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Thus excess of P will cause BBA, when there is not enough nitrate. Next time you read the article, check when it was written It's old stuff. A lot has changed, our knowledge has increased since then, mainly due to the testing of some the more experienced guys. These kind of aruments were the kind of thing that started the "excess nutrients myths". Lot of people concluded P caused algae therefore P is bad. In a case as described above the stalling of plant growth due to the lack of nitrates will cause the algae - nothing to with P. The algae would have come whether the P was 5 or 0.5ppm. To stop BBA in a non Co2 tank don't do water changes or use Excel. Or if you don't believe that try adding N, NOT elimating P,and see if that helps !Bet it won't. In which case that theory is down the drain. You can test these thu=ings yourself if you're willing to play with a tank. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 17:01 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Hi, My only comment is to mention that a UV system will not remove anything. It will kill anything alive that passes through it. Parasites, live algae spores, etc. It is a sterilizer, not a filter. Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 06-Mar-2006 21:56 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Little_Fish? Where are you? Hope you're well! You're falling down on your 10 posts/day! Please come back! "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 09-Mar-2006 22:56 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Hi, Didn't he say something about hurting his back shoveling snow? I too hope he is doing ok. Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 10-Mar-2006 02:34 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Yeah he did a while back. No pun intended. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 10-Mar-2006 04:33 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | |
Posted 10-Mar-2006 05:54 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks Matty Well, I am back now. I couldn't stand the look of my algea anymore and treated myself (and the family) to another view. I have to read all new entries in this and the other threads before I can make any fish related entries, I only came back early this morning and haven't even seen my tanks yet. In the meantime, enjoy the view The Really Big Tank |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 15:03 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Welcome back, Ingo! We've missed you. Glad you enjoyed yourself while we're messing with our tanks. Did you see any algae in that big tank? -P |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 15:08 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks upikabu, I am sure there is algae in the really big tank, but it fits right in On the other hand, I am already in PANIC MODE again. I checked on the tank a few minutes ago and found loads of thread algae on many leaves and all over the wood and rocks. All fish seemed to be doing fine and it took my a while to see what was going on: My CO2 bottle is empty And that on a Sunday . I have no idea when the bottle ran out. I for sure did not see a low meter reading before I left. Grrrrrrrrr I will do a large water change later and supplement with Excel until I get a new bottle. So much about a happy return Ingo |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 17:48 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Ingo, First things first, - Welcome back. I think I could speak for everyone that you were missed. My CO2 bottle is empty Your not going to believe this, but my bottle ran out yesterday and I never noticed the high pressure gauge was down. I'm running on fumes and still have a small stream coming out of my diffusor. So since we started our tanks I believe at the same time I guess I could conclude that I've been running more co2 than you ba My Scapes |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 18:12 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech, thanks for the warm welcome , I had FP withdrawal symptoms for the first few days of vacation, but then I got used to the fact that snorkeling and staring at fish from the dark side is fun as well. Yeah, you sure must have been using more CO2 than I did. I am kind of glad to hear that your bottle is going on empty as well. I was thinking that my regulator might be broken, but if yours is down too then the likelyhood that I just ran on empty "naturally" is pretty high. Here is a full tank shot. The Star Grass and the some other plants don't seem to mind the thread algae and the lower CO2 values, the Macandra is near death. Full Tank, no maintenance yet |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 18:31 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, Tank looks pretty darn nice from that distance. It's hard to believe there are issues. I know it's fun to grow different species, exotics, etc, but it's the tank that's important, so don't drive yourself crazy trying to keep one species. As I've said before you can't be all things in all fish and plants. BTW - I forget is there any preparation when disconnecting the co2 tank for refill? My Scapes |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 18:45 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Hi, Welcome back... SOME PEOPLE have ALL THE FUN! Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 19:14 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech, You are right (as usual, or at least as very often ), I shouldn't drive myself crazy. The problem is that there are threads now all over the place and I only can hope that they will dissapear by themselves once the new CO2 bottle is hooked up and all can balance out again. BTW, I cannot get a bottle until tomorrow evening, the earliest. About preparations: I don't think so, just close the old bottle and unscrew it, hook up the new one as if it would be the first time setting it up. Meaning, blow out the bottle a little first, then screw the regulator on (with the white tape), make sure all valves are in the right position, and open the main valve. That should be it. I will go and do the water change now, maybe I try to remove some old leaves. I for sure have to trim the Star Grass and maybe also some Pearl Grass, although I might keep that one long just to have enough settled plant mass in there for the time being. Ingo EDIT: Frank - Thanks |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 19:21 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, Any bubbles coming out of diffusor at all. I still have a small stream even though my pressure is gone, I guess that's normal with gas. If you have nothing at all it might have run out before mine or it's not strong enough to make it thru the reactor. Do you have any bubbles in the bubble counter? My Scapes |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 19:58 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | tetratech, I got nothing, zip, nada I guess that means that it started to run out as soon as I left a week ago . I am in the middle of the water change now. I did a major trim of the Star Grass, actually a replant of tops and disposal of the bottoms. Back to the Python Ingo |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 20:25 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Thanks for the update. I haven't even started my WC yet. At least you have excel. I don't have any although I just placed an order from bigals for a 2 liter bottle that should be here by Tuesday. I also ordered some Flourish Iron to see if it brings out the reds even more. So as far as the co2 canister I guess you close it and take off the regulator. My Scapes |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 20:33 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Ingo - you left CO2 on while on vacation? You must be braver than I thought, considering the problems Bensaf mentioned before when he left his CO2 on while away. Did you reduce the lighting or duration? How about ferts? -P |
Posted 12-Mar-2006 23:11 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | You must be braver than I thoughtYeah, I am a brave man . No, I actually have a neighbor who's son watched over my tanks while I was gone. I premixed macros, readied a bottle with micros, pre-dosed food, and gave him exact instructions (written down) on what to do with what tank when. All was thought out, except that I may run out of CO2 . There was nothing the neighbor could have done as he only has experience with low tech tanks and I was not easily reachable anyways. Tough luck I say. Anyway - Weekly Tank Update - Week 24 As has been mentioned in this and a few previous posts, I have been away for a week and ran out of CO2. This was all the invitation the algae needed to really settle in nicely, I hope it will go away after all parameters are back in sink again. If I would have to remove all infected leaves then the tank would be pretty empty now. All fish have survived my absence, at least the ones I can count (Otos, Rainbows, and Gouramies). During the maintenance I replanted the Star Grass, it got way too big (see picture a few posts up) and I replanted the tops only. Otherwise I didn't do any trimming, even if the Pearl Grass is getting too big as well. I don't want to have too many plants not being settled at the same time. K, here is the full tank after it was replanted in the current format, on week 19: Initial Current Setup Week 19 |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 00:08 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is the tank after today's water change and maintenance. I supplemented with Excel to have at least some carbon in the tank until I can get a new bottle (hopefully tomorrow evening, if time permits). Note the Macandra to the right of the wood group. It is really pale (unlike the Alternanthera) and any new growth that started in the last two weeks (sideshoots on main stems) is withering away as well. Tank Today - Week 24 |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 00:11 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thread Anyone? Here is a close-up of some Cyperus Helferi leaves covered in thread algae. This is pretty much like the whole group looks like and various of the other plants as well. Darn Cyperus Helferi Thread Algae |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 00:13 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Or how about a nice rock covered in threads? Also, note the beautiful BBA on the Sag at the left side. BBA is seen in various parts of the tank, but mostly on leaves that are on their way out, like on Sags and Crypt Retrospiralis. These two plant types have not taken the replanting 5 weeks ago too well. Some seem to recover, others just hang in, while the rest is withering away. Algae Rock and Narrow Leaf Sag with BBA |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 00:16 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, sorry to see all the problems. Where do you go from here? I know you had algae problems before you went away, but do you think the lack of co2 made it worse in that period of time? My Scapes |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 00:39 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Where do you go from here? No idea Well, I first will try to see if cranking up the CO2 (once I have it) will help. If not then I guess I will have to order quite a few new plants. And I guess that would mean that I have to start over yet again, and I am really not into that at all. I think that the existing algae really profited from the CO2 running out, with as you say "all that light" and the nutrients being available. Under these conditions I can imagine that it had a feast and that a few days were enough to create the current situation. Let's see what the Grand Master has to say about this . Ingo |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 00:58 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | The interesting thing is that we both dispensed about the same amount of co2 over the same period of time and your tank is considerably bigger than mine. Now the only algae I really have is some BBA, which supposely is known to happen in low co2 situations. If that is true, then I must turn mine up even higher and you my friend must get a second cansister. The fish never gasped My Scapes |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 01:47 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | BBA, which supposely is known to happen in low co2 situations I'm starting to question the validity of this hypothesis in CO2-injected tank. In my DIY CO2 injected tank, the only spot where I've seen BBA growing is on an area of the driftwood that's directly in the path of the CO2 bubbles being spit out of the diffuser. Therefore this spot should have the highest CO2 level in the entire tank. I'm starting to think that the reason for this BBA growing there is not necessarily the lack of CO2, but more the unevenness/fluctuation of the CO2 level in the area (as you know, in DIY CO2 the output of CO2 is not constant). If that's true, then in a pressurized CO2 injected tank I would expect BBA only in spots where the level of CO2 varies greatly (e.g. where water flow is restricted). Too bad I can't test this as I don't have a CO2 tank. -P |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 02:21 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | upikabu, I could tell you in my tank 99.9% of the bba is on nongrowing surfaces, but it doesn't seem to matter where these are located in terms of flow and co2 dispersion. Some of the surfaces are right in the flow of the co2 others are at the far end of the tank. I have followed several threads about bba where aquarists complained that the bba was worse where they had something (dw, rock) directly in the flow of the co2. My Scapes |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 03:16 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Tetra - that's interesting. Perhaps the junk/dirt that gets collected on these non-growing surfaces plus CO2 make perfect breeding ground for these protists. Well at least they're easier to remove when on driftwood/rock. Gave my fingernail a workout yesterday removing those b*****ds - it was disgusting. -P |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 03:23 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Well my main worry was that with algae already there that if the Co2 was off for a week it would flourish. I didn't know you're arrangement for while you were away and was assuming you'd switch the gas off. As to the tank emptying - maybe a bit of oversight on your part ? When full the high pressure gauge will read about 900-1000psi. When the liquid Co2 in the tank is depleted this will start to drop and you are just left with gas in the tank. BUT you should get a week to two weeks between this and the tank totally emptying. I would have to assume that the pressure was already dropping before you went away but you hadn't noticed. I doubt there was a ytank dump when the pressure dropped as all the fish would be dead. Anyhows, what to do now. You get the gas up and running and things back in line, while that should stop further algae growth it won't do much for the algae that's already there. It will have to be removed. If it's too much to trim all it off. Then possibly a bleach dip on those plants you want to save. Not sure if Excel works on hair/thread algaes ? Not sure if a 3-day blackout would do it either. Maybe somebody will have some experience. As for the Macrandra, well lets have a little pop quiz to see who has being paying attention in class You've got a Reineckii that was wimpy and weak for a long time and is now big and bold. Macrandra has gone from a deep red to a very pale color. What does that tell us ? Use of test kits is not allowed Simple observation only. As for the BBA. Upi is close. It's not low Co2 per se. In a non injected tank not doing water changes is a way to control BBA by keeping the Co2 constantly low. Unstable Co2 is the main cause. Co2 rates going up and down (below the 30ppm level) will do it. Mulm is also a big factor in BBA as they are good at snatching carbonate from rotting matter. So the mulm and dirt trpped under and around wood and rocks may be a factor. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 04:17 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Red plant turning pale, Either lack of iron or too much Nitrate! Did I get it right?? LF! Your alive and you went and had fun in the big tank! Nice picture BTW. How's the back? That thread algea is everywhere isn't it? I think I would freak if that happend to my tank. I think I had that in my tank for a little bit early on. I gave it about... well lets say probably way way too much excel and it turned red and went away. (is it posible to over dose excel?) 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 05:29 | |
bodangit Hobbyist Posts: 97 Kudos: 37 Votes: 10 Registered: 19-Jan-2006 | BBA. the demonic hellgae. ________________________________________________ I like Led Zeppelin. |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 05:53 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Red plant turning pale, Either lack of iron or too much Nitrate! You're close. But you are only looking at half the equation. The paleness of the Macrandra. How does that tie in with the improvement of the Reineckii ? Narrow it down. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 06:11 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Ok I just did a little cheating and googled it. I am going to add in lack of Micros and maybe not enough light (being shaded?) http://www.tropica.dk/productcard_1.asp?id=032 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 06:40 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Nah, you're getting further away now. I'll wait for a few of the others to chime in before I give (what I feel to be) the answer. There's an important lesson to be learned here. I'm always babbling about watching the plants, not the test kits. That pic with the Reincekii and Macrandra tells me a lot about what's been going on the tank. It also, I'm pretty sure, giving a huge clue as to why the algae re-appeared. But I'd prefer you guys to figure it out for yourself. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 08:45 | |
upikabu Fish Addict Posts: 591 Kudos: 393 Votes: 44 Registered: 08-Jun-2005 | Oh Mr. B, you're such a tease! My guess (never having kept either plant) would be too high nitrate (too many espei ) coupled with low PO4 (hence the paleness). I heard high nitrate could stunt macaranda. Reineckii must like the high nitrate and can tolerate lower levels of PO4. But low PO4 = thread algae or high NO3 = thread algae? My guess would be the latter or combination of both. -P |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 09:22 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Ok no more teasing then ! I don't like the phrase "too much nitrate" or "too high nitrate", btw. It's relative. The changes in the plants tell me that previously the N was too lean and the phosphate high (just high NOT too high). This may have been well and good for the Rotala but not so good for the others, as signified by the poorly Reineckii. Increasing nitrate suited the Reineckii and caused the Macrandra to lose color. It may be a little too rich for the Rotala if growth is now stunted or that could just be the effect of the lack of Co2. Does this mean the N is now "too high" , well not IMO. The algae is testament to that. Remember the algae started before the Co2 ran out, that's just complicated matters. MAcrandra is picky. It's a great indicator for an aquarium but can be a PITA to keep happy. There's a choice to be made, keep conditions suitable for the Rotala and risk problems with everything else or run rich and risk the Rotala being unhappy? I know what I'd choose. Pages back I said that staghorn was an indicator of low macros. The changes in these plants tell me that N was running too low for a long time. To me that indicates why the staghorn re-appeared. So in summary N was too low and P was not a factor. If the reineckii was stunting for lack of N then I'd be sure while the other plants weren't showing syptoms as clear cut they probably weren't growing 100% - they were being limited. Now that's a gap that will let algae in. Remember it's not fast growth it's non-limiting growth. That's what one pic and the difference in 2 plants tell me about what's going on. Watch the plants, folks, trust them. Sod the test kits. Listen to what the plants are tellin' ye, put your pre-conceptions and assumptions aside. They'll tell the whole story. And to quote one of my boys -don't micro manage your macros !!!! Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 15:48 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | And to quote one of my boys -don't micro manage your macros !!!! Oh, go on, your making be blush. One thing I don't see mentioned alot (unless I've missed it) is people increasing their ferts as the plant mass in their tanks mature. Just because you were dosing 1/2 tsp no3 when 2 months ago does't mean it's enough now with the density of plant mass increasing. Believe me all is not bliss in my tank. I do have bba and I noticed my Rotala Wallichii is looking kinda pale and thin. My Scapes |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 18:15 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Welcome back LF! Could you post your really big tank pic in my I'm cold thread in the recovery room? We've had a ton of snow over the past few days, it's nice to see somewhere warmer for a change. It must have been nice to get away, but not nice to come back to that! My filter went off when I went away last year and that wasn't a good thing to come home to, then at Christmas I had everything ready in case it happened again and one of the barbs died and was floating when I got home, I have to show her where the nets are so she can take out dead fish! Which brings us to now, the tank is still looking great from a distance, all the fish were looking active as well, they seemed to weather your absence alright. I'm sure once you get the ferts and CO2 levels back to where they should be then everything will settle down again. I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of the stuff growing in my tanks, the only conclusion is more plants, more ferts and better light (for the 10) and more plants and more ferts for the 25. I've got BBA, staghorn, thread, BGA you name it it has reared it's ugly head in both tanks. From what bensaf has said I think my N and P are too low, my CO2 is probably too low, but out of my control, the only thing I have in good amounts in the tanks are micros, and light on the 25 is good, could be why the algae in that tank is there, the plants aren't using the light available. So UI'm asking here cause he won't come to my thread and share his sage advice, probably tired of my denseness. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 19:05 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Man, Coming back from vacation is no fun. All the work that piled up at my desk is still there . As such I have only a few moments here and there to look into FP and maybe write an entry or two. Bensaf - That's what I was going to answer for your pop quiz . Seriously, I figured it cannot be a lack of Iron as the Alternanthera would not be so read either. But, I have to say that the whole N / P think is still a little murky to me, although I understand what you are saying. The Rotala started to do bad as soon as the last major replant happened. It never settled in anymore. It had been through many different tank params in the past as it was added to the tank at the get-go, so it successfully survived much greater imbalances (that for sure were there). The Alternanthera has been in the tank just as long and never showed a sign of significant growth until the last major change. So it too has been through all kinds of mis-fertilization attempts. tetratech - Although I hear your message about "increased mass requires increased ferts" as well, I have to say that my plant mass decreased during my last major change by about 50% luvmykrib - I promise I will take a look at your log when I have a little more time . What did you do to the guys that you assume they don't want to create entries in there ? Ingo |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 21:03 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | tetratech - Although I hear your message about "increased mass requires increased ferts" as well, I have to say that my plant mass decreased during my last major change by about 50% Well I knew you were gonna say that, but weren't you experiencing thread and other algae problems prior to your extreme makeover. When your plant mass was at it's heaviest. Ingo not picking on you just creating discussions in general for myself to ponder as well. I know you reduced alot of plant mass when you added the dw, but I'm not 100% sure that's the same as starting a tank with immature cuttings that have to be acclimated before they start taking up nutrients. Also does the biofilter simply take in nh3, if not then the bioflter grows bolder and hungrier as well as a sucker of nutrients. There are also cases I believe where the biofilter uses nitrate if the o2 content is low. Let's asume bensaf's right and the no3 ran low. It might have happened when the plant mass was at it's greatest (doesn't that start the process of algae coming in.) Things aren't instanteous or black and white. Believe me the algae (algae genes, spores) are in the tank. They are knocking on the door constantly we just have to get damn good at never letting them in. My Scapes |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 21:56 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Ingo not picking on you I know that tetratech, didn't mean to create the impression that I feel picked on, as I am not . Well, one thing is for sure. I know now why you called me brave when I decided to pull through with the major overhaul, you must have foreseen the things that happened afterwards . Whatever it is/was that caused this mess, let's hope we get it under control. I will get a new bottle of CO2 tonight and crank it up like a madman . Ingo |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 22:42 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | I know that tetratech, didn't mean to create the impression that I feel picked on, as I am not You didn't. I just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking that and I do understand the second language think so don't worry in the future as well. Whatever it is/was that caused this mess, let's hope we get it under control. I will get a new bottle of CO2 tonight and crank it up like a madman Almost makes you want to setup an experiment tank and try stuff. Could be in my future, but haven't been able to even get the cichlid thing going yet. I might even bump my co2 up slightly. Think about it, your tank is about 40% bigger than mine we both used approx. the same amount of c02. Unfortunately it's not a clean comparsion because of all the other variables, but you have about 40% more water to diffuse the co2 into, you also have more light and more mass and you were dosing more ferts, so it stands to reason the plants need more co2 then mine. My fish were never gasping, but I do have BBA. So you might have been really under on the co2 unless your reactor was so much more efficient. EDIT: My unprofessional advice, when you refill the cansister and start these increased co2 dosing, start off slowly and work your way up over a few days. "Small moves, Ellie, small moves" My Scapes |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 22:52 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Small moves, Ellie, small moves CONTACT! One of the most disappointing movie scenes ever, when she finally sees the alien. Why couldn't she fight it or something, or perhaps make the alien talk in backwards english like Yoda. Ah, I'm just rambling - I was a teenager when that came out, my list of priorities of things I wanted to see in movies was much different back then. Aaaaanyway, as for LFs reactor - when i had that set-up I remember it being much less efficient than the glass diffusor. IME anyway. So it's possible LF, your CO2 may still be low. |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 23:04 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | CONTACT! Your good. Loved the movie, but I could see why that would disappoint a teenager. Think about most space movies when they did show the alien, they probably would have been better off not showing them (Independence Day, Abyss, ET ) My Scapes |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 23:21 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Loved the movie, but I could see why that would disappoint a teenager. Think about most space movies when they did show the alien, they probably would have been better off not showing them (Independence Day, Abyss, ET ) I loved it too, it's a Carl Sagan novel afterall, it's hard not to love his stuff if you look at it the right way. You're right about being better off not showing the aliens in those movies. They did a good job for most of Abyss, then blew it at the end. And Independence day, don't get me started. I have a hard enough time believing Will Smith could punch out my sister, let alone a PO'd alien covered in armour. But alas, this is probably a topic for a different thread |
Posted 13-Mar-2006 23:34 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | But alas, this is probably a topic for a different thread Not so fast nowher. I know you don't want to highjack LF's thread about fictional extraterrestrials, but I'm going to bridge our conversation about the algae/bacteria in our tanks and what we are up against. You don't think it's possible do you? I don't know if you knew this but Carl Sagan once speculated that "microorganisims could be seeded in the clouds above Venus and would eventually make the planet habitable for higher forms of life by extracting water and carbon dioxide, breaking them down through photosynthesis and discharging oxygen into the atmosphere" This bacteria he spoke of B-G-A So algae/BGA is our friend My Scapes |
Posted 14-Mar-2006 00:30 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Only if we over populate the Earth and screw it up so bad we can't live here any more... stupid people here on Earth! Oh and it only takes about a year to get to Jupiter! So cut that way back to Venus. Nice conection BTW! (did you make that up?) 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 14-Mar-2006 04:43 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | What I have Aliens in my tank ? I knew it, something this bad cannot be from this planet . I love Science Fiction movies, but I don't have the brain to remember particular phrases. Best movie of this kind ever (because it was ground breaking): 2001 A Space Odyssey. With regards to the tank: I hooked up the CO2 last night around 6PM and fired it up. I didn't see tetratech's suggestion about increasing it slowly over a few days until now. I actually think that the ph of the tank will fall slowly anyway as it will take some time to saturate the water. So, last night the CO2 was on for about 3 hours, that should not have made much of an impact except reminded the fish and plants of how it should be. Today I am letting it rumble and have full CO2 flow for the full day. One observation I made, but I might be wrong with the "cause and reaction" relationship analysis: All my fish are swimming much lower in the tank when there was no CO2 added. Usually, most of my Espei occupy the upper realm of the tank to hang out, but in the last 2 days they all huddled just above most plants. Ingo |
Posted 14-Mar-2006 11:55 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | One observation I made, but I might be wrong with the "cause and reaction" relationship analysis: All my fish are swimming much lower in the tank when there was no CO2 added. Usually, most of my Espei occupy the upper realm of the tank to hang out, but in the last 2 days they all huddled just above most plants. I made the exact same observation in my tank a few days ago, actually one page back I posted a pic. The harleys usually stay near the top, but one day they just started hovering right above the tenellus carpet, just staying in one formation. Perhaps there are little aliens in our Jersey water that are bothing our fish/ plants... |
Posted 14-Mar-2006 15:29 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | I have Aliens in my tank That would be Chao's tank I believe Speaking of Aliens, did Chaos get obducted by one? My Scapes |
Posted 14-Mar-2006 15:41 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Grrrr, NowherMan6 - now you gave me another reason to worry, water from the tab. I think to have observed that my fish came up some more once the CO2 was turned back on. I will make sure to sneak in tonight when I come home and check on them before they see me (as they come out as soon as they see me - for food). Ingo |
Posted 14-Mar-2006 17:30 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | With higher co2 content in the water they may stay closer to the surface to pop up for a gulp of fresh air once in a while ? Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 15-Mar-2006 05:46 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Bensaf, That was my thought as well. And sure enough, last night when I came home and sneaked downstairs I saw then half way up between the plants and the surface. I checked on the CO2 and it was going at about 4bps. Unintentionally I followed tetratech's advice of slowly increasing the CO2 as 4bps are not a super sized load. I later crancked it up some more to "slow stream". I have a question about "cleaning" plants in a Bleach Solution. I guess I should not remove all plant that I would like to save at once and rather stretch the cleaning process out to a few weeks. Some of my plants also don't like to be uprooted, like the Helferi and the crypts. What should I do with these? The bleach solution is 1 part bleach and 19 parts water, right? Ingo |
Posted 15-Mar-2006 12:27 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Well I can't think of a reason not to do them all at once. But I'd do it on water change day so you can clean up the mess from uprooting. As for the Helferi it depends how bad the algae is. What would cause most long term harm to the plant - being covered in algae or being uprooted. As the guy on the ground you'll have to make that call. I wouldn't do the crypts though - too melty. As new leaves grow in trim off the damaged ones. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 15-Mar-2006 16:09 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks Bensaf, I will inform the groud troops that they are in charge of their actions Before I forget, Today is actually a special day when it comes to my involvement in this hobby. It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tank, the 29G. It was quite an exciting first year that so far has produced 3 tanks, including this monster here . Plus many new friends here at FP, thanks at this point to all the people who gave their input in one way or another. So when compared to a marriage, I am no longer a newly-wed and will from now on be able to be held responsible for my actions . Ingo |
Posted 15-Mar-2006 17:23 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tank, the 29G Does this mean the honeymoon is over and I could take off the gloves and really tell you what I think. No, but really once you get past the 1st year and have had success like you have had I think your in it for life. so have a cold dark one and enjoy My Scapes |
Posted 15-Mar-2006 17:42 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Congrates LF! You have done really well for yourself in a year. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 15-Mar-2006 23:43 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | So that would explain why the romance is dead and why he doesn't listen anymore and takes me for granted Well if you have to ask what the problem is there's no point me telling you. BTW, do you know that doctors have discovered a new contraceptive ? Yeah, it's called wedding cake Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 03:34 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | So that would explain why the romance is dead and why he doesn't listen anymore and takes me for granted Yep, I think he's rebelling alittle, trying to make his own tracks through the planted tank jungle. Marriage, contraceptive My Scapes |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 03:47 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Me - rebelling - nah Now move over and listen to the ideas of the new tank-keeper generation Ups, I guess I have nothing to say In a more tank related issue I have news though: I arranged with my LFS to give them around 30 Espei tonight for store credit. I don't get much, but it is a start and marks the first time that any of my efforts return some of the investment. I intend to bag them in 2 bags, 15 each, and then to put the bags in a cooler to bring them there (10min drive). I guess that should be fine, right? Do you have a better idea? So, while arranging that deal, I perused the store to see what kind of a treat I could get myself for the 1 year anniversary. And what can I say - I found a very nice treat (in my opinion). I put a hold on a pair of Apistogramma viejita II that the store received just 2 days ago. A treat it is, as they cost $80 as this species supposedly is stillrather rare in the trade. I did not see the couple hang out together in the tank, both were going their own ways, but they didn't show any aggression towards each other when their ways crossed either. I assume that the term "pair" in this case means a male and a female rather than a formed pair. What do you think? Ingo |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 12:04 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Thats a sweet fish! I can't imagin spending that much cash on a couple of fish but you are going to be getting some cash or SC so that will help matters. I think you are right about them being just a M+F not an actual pair. But who knows they may not like their environment right now but when you get them home to the super cool tank they might hook up. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 14:14 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Well, congrats on the esepi sale. Could be the start of something. Little_fish's little fish farm. Always nice to get something back and tell the wife As for the Apistos: Obviously very nice looking fish. Is that the actual fish your getting or is that a pic from somewhere else? I would definitely let them stay in the store for a while if possible before moving, since you said they've only have them a few days. When it comes to feeding time you might have to be more hands on. When I feed my bolivians I have to push away the schooling fish since they eat all the food before it reaches the lower levels where the rams are. I actually put some larger size food in a net and swish it to the bottom, same when I'm feeding worms, etc. My Scapes |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 14:24 | |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 14:45 | This post has been deleted |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | Hi Ingo It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tankCongratulations. Now, I had you figured as someone who has been at this for years. You've certainly learned a lot in a short time, 'cause you're certainly full of good advice. I love your new fish. Gee that's pricey though, it would be AU$108.65. Is that a picture of your actual fish in the store, or is it one from a profile. Just wondering, 'cause my bolivian rams do not look anywhere near as colourful as the picture in the profile found here. Maybe one day, in the distance future, when I've recovered from the cost of kids, tanks (C02 soon I hope), maybe if I save all my dollars up, I can get 2 of them. Hate to order them in to find they don't look like your pic - so that's why I ask. Again, congratulations on 1 year of fish keeping. Lucky for all the newbies here that you picked this hobby. Cheers TW |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 14:52 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Oh thanks everybody, in particular Robyn - that is a very nice compliment. No, sadly the fish pictured is not the real one I am getting, I found the image when googeling the web. Put basically it looks like it. Leaving the fish in the store may be a good idea tetratech, but I don't think it is really possible - for a few reasons: - I am rather sure the store is not too wild about holding fish for someone as they like to refill that spot with fish that they can sell - The tankmates seemed to be too pushy for the little girl and there is not much hiding space (one cave like structure) - last but not least, some salesguy who might not be in the know and potentially doesn't care to read the label on the tank may sell them So, they will come home to Daddy tonight (if not sold/dead/ill). Good point about the food as well tetratech, just later this morning it dawned on me that I didn't know how and what to feed these guys. After doing some research it seems that mostly some live food is suggested, although one book mentioned that they also would be just fine with "quality" flake food. Tell me more about the worms you feed - do you raise them, buy them, defrost them, or what? Thanks in advance, Ingo |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 15:47 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | LF congrats on the one year anniversary We all have you to blame for this Log madness (and Dr Bonke too) Very nice apistos indeed. And that was a nice bit of luck with finding a rare kind. I would reccomend seeing if they'll breed, you have a possible goldmine on your hands I doubt an LFS would pass up an opportunity to sell fish that they could make a huge profit on As for feeding, when I feed brine shrimp/ bloodworms they never make it to the bottom for my loaches. What I do is add some tank water to the brine shrimp/ worms, then suck that up in a turkey baster and let it drip out near the bottom. This way the bottom fish get first shot at it, and you can place it directly and not haphazzardly like I imagine would happen with a net. This is useful if the fish are shy at first and you need to spot feed them in their territory or in a cave section |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 16:27 | |
OldTimer Mega Fish USAF Retired Posts: 1181 Kudos: 1294 Votes: 809 Registered: 08-Feb-2005 | Ingo, That's one gorgeous Apisto, and congrats on the 1 year point. I'm almost ready to set up the planted tank that we've discussed briefly, I can only hope to have even a small amount of the success that you have had. Jim |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 16:29 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Jim, I am sure that you will be at least as successful as I have been as you researched the topic at least as much as I did. Actually, I hope you are better than me as I am still trying to figure out quite a few things here Ingo |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 16:36 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | NowherMan6, Didn't see your entry, I guess I am getting old . Question: do you feed live food or defrosted/freeze dried? If the answer is live food then I would appreciate a short introduction. But I am afraid it includes the word refridgerator and I can already see someone kicking me out of the house. Thanks, Ingo |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 16:40 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | If the answer is live food then I would appreciate a short introduction. But I am afraid it includes the word refridgerator and I can already see someone kicking me out of the house. Pack your bags. I feed them frozen, and I keep the food discreetly hidden in the freezer. But I've been wanting to try out the Omega One freeze dried line. Supposed to be pretty good. Their flake food is also supposed to be excellent, though my harlies aren't crazy about it. High quality. Cultivating live food shouldn't be too hard, especially brine shrimp. A one gallon tank should do, I'm sure you can find instructions online. If it's a wild caught pair you may need to go the extra mile in getting them to feed, they may not be as voratious as the espei |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 17:01 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks NowherMan6, I will ask tonight if it is wild caught. Last thing I want is that the fishies starve to death. I have various freeze dried foods, from Blood Worms (which I find are rather big) over Daphnia (rather small) to San Francisco Bay Brand Brine Shrimp (is floating) and Hikari Tubifex Worms (floating). Let's hope they like at least one of them. Ingo |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 18:15 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | When you go to the LFS find out what they have been feeding them. Always good info to know.. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 18:19 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Tell me more about the worms you feed - do you raise them, buy them, defrost them, or what? I get the frozen cubes (usually san fran brand) I defrost them in a cup with tank water for 10 minutes then I dump out the cup over a net in the sink. I take some more tank water and dump it over the net again to get rid of the residue/bloodly liquid etc. so it doesn't go in the tank. Then I feed some of the school right away and then I go down to the bottom with the remaining worms and realize alittle where the rams hang. At this point the rams are really tame so they will go right into the net if I let them. Sounds like the apistos are a done deal so good luck with them. I have a store way out east on the Island that stocks alot of them. I'll have to take a trip out there maybe this weekend and see what the deal is. My Scapes |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 20:18 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks for the detailed information, tetratech Sounds like it would be a bit messy to feed frozen food. I sure hope that they like freeze dried as well. Thanks again, Ingo |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 20:26 | |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 20:42 | This post has been deleted |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | It's really not that bad. Doesn't freeze-dried float? That would be harder for the apistos to get to since they stay on the bottom. BTW - Yes, I do keep the worms in the frig. Actually one type of SF Brand is called "Fish Gum Drops". Nice way to say "Frozen Bugs" EDIT: Makes a good case for getting a frig in the garage. Load it up with gum drops and black & tans. My Scapes |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 20:47 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Doesn't freeze-dried float? Yes, it does I was hoping that soaking it for a while will make it sink, but now I remember that uneaten food tends to stay on top as well. Grrrrr We don't have electricity in the Garage, maybe I could run a fridge on gasoline . Ingo |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 21:14 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | well with the snow storm on its way you shouldn't have to worry about keeping them cold. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 22:51 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | I recently bought frozen MYSIS shrimp, they come in little cubes and you do the same thing as Tetra with them, I never thought to strain mine though, my guys love the 'gravy' the bloodworms make. No more bloodworms for mine though until I find some with a guarantee that there are no parasites. Freeze dried tubifex are just nasty and messy IMHO, they make such a mess in the tank and the fish get all bloated up after eating them, I thought my barbs would burst after just a few bites! Do the rams always stay on the bottom? My krib is seen all over the tank and never misses coming to the top for feeding time. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 23:00 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | Hey Ingo, Looked up FP on Apistogramma viejita II. There's only one photo & it might the Apistogramma viejita, which text says is less colourful than Apistogramma viejita II. When you get yours, you should take a pic & put it in the profile here in FP. I'm going to try the various feeding ideas for my rams, as I have trouble getting food to them & I didn't think of those ideas. Brilliant. The only thing I can get to them is algae wafers, as the other greedy fish don't let anything drop to the bottom. Cheers TW |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 23:33 | |
cynical Hobbyist Posts: 56 Kudos: 36 Votes: 0 Registered: 18-Aug-2005 | I have both rams and apistos and i feed freeze dried tubifex (aswell as frozen bloodworm and sinking pellets), they come in small cubes and what you do is push them hard against the glass and they stick there, so you can reach your arm in and put it down the bottum for your rams/apistos? Cynical |
Posted 16-Mar-2006 23:48 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | I have tried that with the tubifex cubes and they don't stay stuck, it may be different with less voracious fish than my barbs and the krib, but I don't know, they barely touch it and it comes loose! "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 01:11 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I will catch up with the entries later, for now I have to go and add water to the bags But here they are: Apistogramma viejita II Female |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 02:54 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is the boss, both are still bagged as you can see: Apistogramma viejita II Male |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 02:55 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | OK, I have a few minutes between water additions now, so first of all for all the input and suggestions on feeding these little charms I asked in the store how they feed their fish and they told me that during the week it is flakes and on Fridays it is frozen food. But he also showed me that the fish eat freeze dried food, he added some krill to the tank, into the current that pushes the water down from the HOB, and the Apistos ate their share. Nice Now, a request to all of you: keep your fingers crossed for me that they are doing fine as the last time I got South American Cichlids they both died, it was a pair of German Rams (last fall). Thanks again, I am sure quite a few more pictures will follow, but not today as it will be lights out soon for this tank. Ingo |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 03:25 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Simply beautiful fish and looks like a pair too Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 03:30 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Gorgeous, LF. Look forward to seeing them get lost in your jungle |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 03:57 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | BTW, a happy ST. Paddy's day to one and all Won't be posting much today got an appointment with "a blonde in a black skirt" tetra should know what that is. He's agot a few blondes in black skirts in his fridge ! Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 04:10 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | Today? Oh yeah, where you are today is tomorrow. Happy St. Paddy's Bensaf and others... and to LF's new apistos too. |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 04:23 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Sweet fish. I am sure that he will color up when he is not freaking out from trasport. Best wishes! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 07:34 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks to you all What can I say, I already start to worry (what else is new). Pretty much as soon as I released them into the 20G I noticed that the resident Platies, even the younger ones, swim up to the new fish, from the side, and try to bite their pectoral fins, grrrrr. I hope they will get used to each other quickly before any major damage is done. I managed to take a few shots last night after release. Here is the female. As you may see, her caudal fin is not in the best shape. Usually I wait these things out as eventually the fin will grow back, but usually my fish are also rather cheap. Anything I should do? Female |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 12:02 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a picture of the male, he pretty much colored up a little as soon as he was added to the tank. Male |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 12:04 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Last but not least, here is a shot of the pair. I hope they will take good care of each other. Ingo Ah, and yeah - happy St. Patricks Day from me too, to all the Irish folks out there Pair |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 12:06 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | I like all the pics. Favourite is the one of the pair. He looks like he's puckering up for a kiss. Good luck with them, Ingo. Cheers TW |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 12:09 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | LF, If you think it's just wear and tear on her tail fin, perhaps from nipping in the store tank etc., then melafix and/ or pimafix should do the trick. I don't think it would be tail rot yet, but that would warrant another treatment... |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 13:33 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, Great find What's next a pair of zebra plecs! They are already quite beautiful and they should get even more colorful. I don't know, but somehow I think frozen bloodworms, would help with color more than freeze-dried but I could be wrong. As I mentioned I am looking for a pair as well, so let the Apisto Wars begin. You are such an animal! BTW: Found this on a website "Three color forms of Apistogramma viejita are known. Color form 1 is from Puerto Gaitan, Colombia, 2 from Rio Muco and Rio Guarrojo, Colombia, and the third from tributaries to the Rio Manacacias between Santa Rita and Bengale, also Colombia. The fish have also been described from Venezuela." My Scapes |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 15:06 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks for the input, Yeah tetratech, I found that info during the day yesterday as well. I am pretty sure that mine actually are the viejita II as the coloration is pretty much on target. There is supposedly another Apisto that looks very similar, I think the difference are the blue lips (or something). I will keep an eye on the fins to evaluate rotting or "normal" wear and tear from shipping etc. Also, I am still concerned about the nipping of the fins from the Platies. If I find any loss of pectoral fin pieces then the Platies will be moved tonight into the 29G. Might be a little tight in there then, but they asked for it Ingo |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 15:26 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Oh, With all this excitement over my new fish I forgot to tell the story of the Espei. After getting the QT ready with a water change I started to go after the Espei. I readied a larger ziplock bag, removed the three glass lids, filled the bag with 3 cups of tank water, and the hunt was on. 1 hour and 15 min later I caught either 27 or 28 of the juveniles. Most were of younger age, not tiny though, as the older ones are already too fast and smart to be caught be the old guy. I then realized that the ziplock bag is not easily put down as the bottom corners could fold up and kill any fish that may be stuck in it. With the help of the wife I poured them into an old LFS bag that I wisely saved (or forgot to throw out ). Then I packed the whole bag in 3 towels and in a cooler box, just to be on the save side. 10 min later I was in the store and the sales person in charge seemed to be rather satisfied with my fishies. Actually, I expected this as the shipments from Asia usually produce skinny, small, and pale Espei. He filled my fishies in a clean bucket and it was time to say good-by to them . So - to anyone who reads this entry and plans to purchase my Espei, take good care of them, will ya? I can tell already that the big tank looks emptier with about 30% of the fish population gone. Ingo |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 18:17 | |
SheKoi Fish Addict Posts: 667 Kudos: 553 Votes: 4 Registered: 11-Feb-2004 | LF what did you get for your fish? if anything. i know how hard it is to remove fish, that you have feed and grown, in your case bred. i decided to exchange my RTS at the weekend, he had become far to aggressive, chasing every fish in the tank apart from the angel, i got 6 bags of live food in exchange! How are your rainbows doing? any sign of breeding yet? i'm hoping to get a couple male rainbows this weekend! Congrats on the dwarfs, they look great, i got a male cockatoo, last weekend, still trying to find female. is it your intendtion to add them into the 125G, might be hard to see them once they are in. Karl. www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 18:29 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Karl, The deal was basically $1 per Espei (they sell them for $4) of store credit, but because I told them there are either 27 or 28 (and counting them is hard) and because I believe they were rather happy with the condition of the fish, I received $30. This credit, and quite some additional cash, was used up just a few minutes later alread when I got the Apistos. Ingo |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 18:36 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | some reason I think the population will come back. Probably not as fast being you have the rainbows in there now but it will come back. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 18:37 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Yeah Wings, there is a good chance that this will happen. As I still see the occasional very young fish peeking out from the denser growth areas. Karl - forgot to answer your question about the Rainbows. The are doing just fine (all 6), but I don't see any mating going on. If I am not mistaken then they are egg scatterers and their offspring need quite some time to develop into larger fish (that are not easily eaten anymore). If they had babies then they all became food. Ingo |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 18:41 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | So let me get this straight: - Two espei $8 - Two Double Red Apisto Agassizi $20 - Bensaf saying your Apisto Viejita are simply beautiful on St. Patrick's Day - Priceless! My Scapes |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 18:47 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | That is so true tetratech I wish he would say similar things about my planting Ingo |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 18:51 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | "a blonde in a black skirt" Oh yeah Don't expect much today. I expect him to resurface in about a week. My Scapes |
Posted 17-Mar-2006 20:12 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Quick update on the Apisto: So far so good They were both still alive when I came home and I did not witness any aggression from the Platies towards them. I decided to feed them and shoved small dosaged of flake food below the water surface so it would sink. And es, we got some eaters . Also, I addedd some freeze dried tubifex worms and they ate the ones that sank (pushed them down a little) AND from the surface, excellent. After a good meal, the male Apisto showed the Platies who is boss in the tank and chased them around a little. Revenge for their picking yesterday But I have a new question In all this fish madness I almost completely forgot that I am getting a small plant order and today it came in. 5 Anubias Nana Petite (just for the fun of it) and 3 (actually got 4 for some reason) Anubias Congensis. Now I know that Anubias are having their rhizome exposed, and I assume that this is the case for all of them. But just to make sure: the Congensis as well? I have pretty much no smaller roots on the rhyzome so I guess that would mean that I have to tie them to something. Also - they get pretty tall, right (18 inches) ? Here is the new plant order: New Plants |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 01:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is a close-up of two Congensis rhizomes. For the time being I just wedged them in some spots in the tank, for sure not the final position though (front of tank). No Roots? |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 01:39 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | My guess would be that they need the rhizome exposed, also they've probably been trimmed for shipping and will grow new roots quickly, so if you tie them or wedge them in they should have new roots befroe you know it! Glad to hear the apistos are doing good, I kind of thought they would come up for food, being cichlids they could be greedy little attention seekers, my krib does tricks when she wants to be fed, shows off all over the place. They will colour up nicely as they settle in and when they finally go into the 125 just wait to see their colours explode! Frozen food being as close to live as I have gotten seems to induce mating frenzy in my fish, even the krib, she turns more purple after a good frozen food feast. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 02:04 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | luvmykrib, So you have your krib in the planted tank? Doesn't make a mess of things? If i can't get my hands on Cockatoo then I might have to do kribs. They have been starting to color up at work and look pretty nice. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 02:41 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | She only tears into the plants once in a while, and has never done any real damage to them. I keep her slightly underfed as I do for the rest of the fish. They are really beautiful fish once they colour up in the home tank. If I could I'd get her a mate, right now I just have the barbs (5) and danios (3) and 1 SAE with her, still I worry that a pair would kill the other fish, maybe in a bigger tank it would be fine. I'll have new pictures tonight and I'll try and get a good one of her. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 02:50 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Don't expect much today. I expect him to resurface in about a week. No here I am. Saturday morning back in work - busy. I needed a beer yesterday one those strange "what the hell am I doing here days". I did a tour of the factory yesterday. Down at the warehouse there is a cement drainage ditch going around the perimeter of the building. This ditch is no more then c foot wide and deep. There's been heavy rain lately so it had no maore then 2 inches of water. As I walked by something caught my eye. This little drainage ditch was swarming with fish , hundreds of them poking about in the soating of mud at the bottom. About an inch. Couldn't make out what they were but looked Rasbora like. Then I noticed there were a lot of crabs up to a couple of inches wide (I didn't even know there were freshwater crabs !) and what's known locally as "bulot", which are like small eels or birchirs. I only know thenm as they make great eating when deepi fried . I don't know of any big body of water nearby, how the hell all this life got in drainage ditch I don't know. It's a very lush country. Even weirder then that was the next episode. I had my delivery supervisor come to me with a manpower requisition. Wanted to hire a new truck driver. I asked why he need a new driver, and he said the usual guy was sick. Of course I asked why can't we wait for him to come to work.....the conversation in Indonesian went something like this. Him: "He'll be out for a month, Pak" Me: "Oh, it must be serious, what's wrong with him ?" Him: "He's possessed by the devil, Pak" Me: "Uuuhhhhhhhh ??????" Him: " Ya, Pak, he was going home from work last night and a demon entered his body" Me: "You're taking the mickey right ?" Him: " No Pak, the excorcist says he needs to stay indoors for a month, he can't drive anyway Pak, he keeps twitching" Me " Well if his head turns 360o he won't need the rearview mirror " Him: " Sorry Pak, don't understand" Me: " Are you really asking me to hire somebody else because one of our guys is suffering from demonic possession ?" Him: "Yes, Pak, why is there is a problem?" This went on for a another 20 minutes or so, as I tried to explain to the guy why I couldn't give someone a month off because they thought they were in the clutches of a menevolent spirit....... Really, I sometimes wonder how the hell I ended up here. It's not like they even have draft Guinness.Only the cans. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 04:39 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | take breath I need a kleenex, that brought tears to my eyes and made my belly hurt, if I had a job I'd try that excuse. Sometimes I think the kids are demonic spirits sent here to torture and torment me! "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 04:57 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | The really funny thing is that you tryed to have fun with it and the guy didn't have a clue. Talk about culture shock. How long have you been there? Still have to be weird. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 05:41 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | I have read in various reports that in tropical climates fish and other critters can be found in even the smallest ditch. Come to think of it, I also don't recall an explanation on how these animals get there And I hear you on the troubles with understanding / accepting local customs in a foreign country. Just yesterday I saw thousands of people dressed in green, wearing funny hats, and being drunk, at Noon. I couldn't even get lunch for an hour as the Irish Pub was jammed with youngsters (I would say minors) drinking beer. I have no idea what demon caused them to do that . Bensaf, I think we have the biggest St. Patrick's Day parade of the world here, they expected 2 million people along the route through Midtown Manhattan. You may have liked it About the Congensis: I guess we are in sink that the Rhizome cannot be buried, right? Ingo |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 12:52 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Bensaf It's not like they even have draft Guinness.Only the cans. You poor pup! Look I have enough trouble conversing with the older generation just to buy co2 gas for a planted aquarium - Did you ever? My Scapes |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 15:07 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | I couldn't even get lunch for an hour as the Irish Pub was jammed with youngsters (I would say minors) drinking beer I just want to say, I noticed the exact same thing. I couldn't go out for my lunch walk yesterday because of that parade. WHile walking down one strett there were tons of kids - 14-17 year old kids - drunk, getting sick, getting arrested by cops. I couldn't believe it, where did they drink all this? How did they get served? And why aren't they in school? |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 15:17 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Isn't it cute how kids can get away with such things? Yay for good parents! About the Congensis: I guess we are in sink that the Rhizome cannot be buried, right? OH yeah i wouldn't. Best bet now it to tie them down to something and let the roots grow. Once you have roots then you can plant them. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 15:23 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | BTW, legal beer drinking age in Germany is 16. We learn to handle drinking first and only then are allowed to drive a car (18). Also, hard liquor legal drinking age is 18. Wings, thanks for the info on the Congensis . I guess today I will be busy with at least some bleaching and planting. Ingo |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 15:35 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Do you bleach all your new plants? 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 16:23 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Wings, That has nothing to do with the new plants. It is or the ones in the tank that are covered in thread algae. The new plants will not be bleached as I don't want to stress them for no reason. Ingo |
Posted 18-Mar-2006 16:41 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Could you detail how the bleaching goes, I'm thinking I need to bleach mine when I do the major over-haul. No sense putting nasties in with the new look! I remember my little stint across Europe when I was 17, the legal age in Dover, England was 14, in Switzerland it was 16 I think, same in Austria and most of the rest of Europe, do I remember much else? Nope, just a lot of Beer and wine in different countries, what a trip! Oh yeah I think we saw some castles and churches, whatever. Ordering beer in the afternoon in German and drinking it out in the open was a big deal for me then. Now I can barely remember any German, and what I do remember is naughty thus not for polite conversation. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 00:44 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | luvmykrib - I don't know how it is done, maybe someone else should explain it. I trie it today with the result that the threads are now white (dying? ) and I am so worried that my Otos will die. I am sorry, I am having a moral tank low I again slaved 7 hours over this tank. I am more in the mood of trashing that planting thing than ever. Not many words will follow today, just an opera in 6 acts. Act 1 Act 1 - Overture to Disaster |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 01:37 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Act 2 Act 2 - Let the Slaughter Begin |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 01:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Act 3 Act 3 - More Soldiers are Falling |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 01:39 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Act 4 Act 4 - The Bloodied Battlefield |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 01:40 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Act 5 Act 5 - Prepare to Surrender |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 01:41 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Act 6 - Final Act Act 6 - Unconditional Surrender |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 01:42 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Opera Cliff Notes Summary Before - After |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 01:54 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | WOW! Major change Ingo! I liked the jungle before and the new look looks good too! Hope you recover enough to tell us more about how it went, from your earlier post it didn't sound like it went all that well. Aren't you risking another algae outbreak with the smaller plant load? How can you tell with the otos how they are doing? Mine showed no symptoms other than clamped fins until I found them dead, in the 10g I have clamped otos that have continued to live while I lost panda cories. They really didn't give me any warning as to their health. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 02:19 | |
Cup_of_Lifenoodles Fish Guru Posts: 2755 Kudos: 1957 Votes: 30 Registered: 09-Sep-2004 | Funny...it looks good no matter how you rearrange it. |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 02:19 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I am not really sure which one I like better. I think there are things about both that I like and dislike but I can't really point them out for some reason. Maybe its because it took me an hour to close the store tonight... people just wouldn't leave! I guess one thing I really like is the tall grassy stuff in the front. I think that looks sharpe! Other than that I don't know either way. What are your plans for a forground plant? Sag? Going to keep things simple this time? 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 05:43 | |
bcwcat22 Big Fish Posts: 395 Kudos: 314 Votes: 34 Registered: 16-Jul-2005 | I definatly like the second one better though I am unsure about that red plant on the far right. Great looking tank though! Plz stop shaming my algae ridden tanks "A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 05:55 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Gang, Thanks for the input. I really was tired yesterday, and agitated, to say the least. I did not plan to spend another 7 hours on the tank. But once I started to weed out heavily invested plants one step led to the next and before I knew it the tank was pretty much empty again. I thought that I will use this chance to replant/reorganize the plant groups, as the previous layout could not be recreated because so many plants "had to go". I will break down the tank sections into 4 parts and explain what went on in my mind and in the process of creating them. Section A - Anubias Farm First of all, ba I removed the Anubias first from the tank (not knowing how long this all will take) and hours later, when it was time to put them back in, I checked on them for the first time since trimming. I was in shock, half the leaves were rolled up and appeared totally dried out and dead. Later, after a while in the tank, most seemed to have recovered though. I tied the Congensis to a rock and placed that one close to the Star Grass as a seperator. Also, the tiny Nana Petites are tied to a small rock. In addition, I added all my crypt types into this section. The Bacopa is there a a filler, it doesn't fit in but I need fast growers to re-establish the tank. Section A |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 13:42 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Section B - Main Group This one was the the easy part, at least concerning the Star Grass as I was happy with it's placement. All plants in front of it were removed and I had to figure out what could go in their place. For one thing, I was able to remove the large rock that holds down the wood and replace it with a smaller one. The fern on the wood didn't look all that good in the leftmost position, so I placed it in the crack between wood and rock. That pretty much left me only with the Cyperus Helferi as a plant in front of the Star Grass. Probably because it took so long for it to grow I simply could not let go of the Helferi. It got a 10 min bleach bath (19 water, 1 bleach) followed by rinsing and storing for hours in clean water (only a few other plants recieved leach baths, they were only dunked in bleach solution and then rinsed off). Only after adding them back to the tank did I realize that the fuzz is still on them, but I was running out of time. The threads are white or gray and I am afraid that they still contain enough bleach to sicken anyone who may nibble at them. The overall problem I have with this group is that it is too green. The leaf shape varies, that is good, but all are the same color. Section B |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 13:50 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Section C - The Valley For this section I had a clear vision, Pearl Grass all the way from the back to the wood, in a sloping fashion. This was an idea that I had going for quite a while, I even suggested a similar approach to upikabu at some point. Well, I did it and the problem I see now is that I don't get any depth perception of the slope. It looks flat. Maybe if I grow it even further to the front (really low there) then it may work better. Section C |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 13:54 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Section D - What is that? This section is truely bad and a shame for this tank. I pretty much ended up there with all plants that I don't want to dispose off but couldn't fit in anywhere else. The Red Rubin Sword was bleach bathed and heavily trimmed, the Alternanthera got a bleach bath too. I need to maintain the Ludwigia as a fast grower, maybe if it gets fuller and taller it will look nice there, don't know yet. So basically, it is a mess. And this is why I am not happy. You work so hard on this and the rewards are mixed, at best. It made me feel like I just don't have a good enough vision on how to plant a tank nicely. Section D |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 14:00 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, Don't let your tank get you down. Its still a work in progress and its cool that you have the guts to try new stuff with your tank. Most of us don't want to don't want to change anything with our tanks. Myself I am dreading to my algae issues on my giant hygro. I guess the moral of the story is that things change, you change your mind and you can always change it again. Get on with it! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 15:16 | |
TW Fish Master * * *Fish Slave* * * Posts: 1947 Kudos: 278 Votes: 338 Registered: 14-Jan-2006 | Ingo, your tank looks great. You are too self critical - but then, most of us are. Most of us don't want to don't want to change anything with our tanksWings is right, you always seem so keen get stuck in & try things in your tank, when others hold back. Sometime ago, you suggested I ask the planted tank gang in a thread, with a pic of my tank, for help to make it look better. Because I don't have the energy at the moment to rearrange, I havn't done that - I have held back. You wouldn't do that - you'd be in it straight away. (I want to sort out my C02 one way or the other first - then I come & ask for help). But you, you'd jump straight in. Good job on the replant. But then, it looked good to me before too. Cheers TW |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 15:47 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Not quite sure I know where to start. I liked the tank after you added the wood, but I understand the mass wasn't there to continue. I think right now you have to fiqure out how not to get into this situation again so the plants get destroyed. Light, Biofilter, Fish Load, Plant Mass, C02, Nutrients We need to find out the problem and then move on to the scaping. My Scapes |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 16:30 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Where the heck did you get the idea to give a 10 minute bleach bath ? 2 minutes will do it. Don't worry about the white stuff it's dead algae. Won't harm anyone the fish will make a snack out of it. Stop worrying full stop. This is supposed to be fun !!!!! DO NOT DO ANOTHER MAJOR OVERHAUL LIKE THIS FOR A WHILE.iT'S UNSETTLING. Ok. cap lock off. Where did you get that much pearlgrass? You're being hard on your self. A 125 gal is no easy job to scape. You are on the right track big groupings of a few species is the way to go.The Anubias was a good idea to put together. Again all that's needed is a big bunch of something dramatic Aromatica type plant.Behind the peargrass would be perfect. Fill out the front left with more crypts -plain old wendtii will do. Behind that some kind of filler like Cambomba to give some lightness. Then fill out the right side with something like Wisteria. I'm keeping to simple cheap easy to find plants to promote some stability. Around the wood and rock fill out with Wendelov Fern or NArrow leaf or more Anubias. Keep the dosing routine simple and steady. Don't waver. Fill out the plants as outlined above, keep the dosing steady, sit back and watch for a few weeks. Patience is key, it can take weeks for plants to fill out the way we want them to. Let them fill out with cheapies and fast growers so you can a feel for a full look and shaping. Play with shape of these til you settle on a look you like. BTW those plants you got a few weeks ago you thought were Anubias - how they doing? Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 17:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | All - Thank you so much for the encouragement and constructive critzism, I appreciate it. Yeah, I know that THE most important thing now is balance. I think one problem I created recently was letting the P drop too low (I know, I know, you told me so). I lost all Duckweed, none left, zip, nada, I take it as an indicator for a lack of P as it likes P (and high N). Bensaf, as sad as it is, I kind of enjoy worrying, that's my nature . It keeps my mind busy and the job intereting. I am almost afraid that just sitting back won't cut it for me. This doesn't mean you guys should stop helping me out when I am in dispair, please. That much Pearl Grass? I even through some out. I will post a picture below, just before the current one (weekly update), that shows the tank front full of it all over the place. I like the Anubias group idea as well, I just don't know if its execution was performed all that well. The "suspicious" Anubias from a few weeks back are still there and they are getting new leaves. I now assume they are Congensis as they look a lot like the ones I just got. Filler plants for the time being: Good idea, I will just have to get them and find the time to put them in. We will see. I for sure will keep my dosing of ferts up, no reduction. The front left contains Crypts, as you will see in a close-up shorly. So, on to the main topic. Weekly tank update - Week 25 Almost all details have been discussed above, but here is a quick summary: Coming back from vacation I noticed that my CO2 ran out. This enhanced an already existing Thread algae problem and the week was used to discuss a possible cleaning/replanting effort. This has been done yesterday and the results, from a visual perspective, are mixed (you be the judge). The postive highlight of the week was the trade in of 30 Espei as part of a payment for a pair of Apistogrammas. I love them and so far they are doing well in the QT. Here are some pictures: First the tank the week before the first major overhaul, in week 18. It was pretty jungle like and the overhaul was needed to retrofit the tankwith wood and to avoid overgrowing. Week 18 |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 18:38 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now here is a picture of the tank from last weekend, week 24. As you can see (Bensaf), there are loads of Pear Grass growing all over the front of the tank. They all come from one small batch that I purchased when I set up the tank 25 weeks ago. This plant is versatile, easy to replant, easy to divide, grows partially shaded, in summary a plant that I would recommed any time. I find that this layout / growth did not give the tank any depth. Week 24 |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 18:42 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now, the tank as of today - week 25 It looks much emptier, partially of course because I removed dying or bad growing plants like most of the Crypt Retrospiralis and Sags / Dwarf Swords. The plant arrangements are not really what I would like to maintain in the long run, but sentimental reasons (Helferi, for example) and fast growers (Bacopa, for example) led to this arrangement. BTW: I counted 5 Otos this morning, so I take it they are doing fine. Week 25 - today |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 18:46 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a close-up of the Anubias group: The Nana and Barteri form the center, the Congensis on the right back and the maybe Congensis almost hidden on the left back. The small rock with the Nana Petite is in the front of the main group, flanked by Crypt Lucens and Lutea. In itself this would for sure make a nice tank, like a 29G. I just don't know how it looks in conjunction with my other plants. Anubias Farm |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 18:52 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now here is a close-up of the green and red Crypt Wendtiis. I collected them from all over the tank, at least what was left of them, and placed them in one big group, rather close to each other to encourage growth (I think Wings suggested this at some point). We will see how they are doing there, but traditionally I am not too successful with Wendtiis as they usually have one leaf melting for each new one in all of my 3 tanks. Wendtii Farm |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 18:55 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Here is a close-up of two surviving Glosso stems. They made it all the way through the 2 major overhauls. This time though I actually removed them from the tank before vacuuming to make sure that they will survive. I don't know what I will do with them once they should decide to take off again. I somehow like the open foreground. Maybe the next fish to get should be a school of Cories, I will have to think about it. Glosso |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 18:57 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now here is an interesting observation, maybe you have a similar experiece. The Rainbows and the Pearls like to "hang out" together, I would almost go as far as to say that they are schooling together. This is in particular obvious since my rather brutal netting of the Espei in last weeks trade-in. Before that it seemed to mostly happen before feeding time. Pearl and Rainbow Gang |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 19:04 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Now, this week cannot be complete without showing the Apistos again They are truely lovely fish and I can only recommend them. It would break my heart if they would not make it in my tank(s). The initial aggression of the Platies towards them has stopped, the male is now clearly the boss in the tank. Here is the female.She spends most of the time perusing the tank and nipping on plants and gravel. I don't know if she is going for small snails or plant matter. When she feeds on the surface it makes a clicking sound. Beautiful to watch. Female |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 19:08 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | And here is the male. He spends all day patrolling the tank and chasing the Platies, in particular after feeding when all the food is eaten. I wonder why he does that? I think he has colored-up even more and he for sure is nice to observe. Both male and female are true stalkers. They swim up to something (like moss or gravel) hover for a second or two in front of it, and then they go in for the kill (or whatever they do there), really fast. The same can be said for their routine of surface feeding. They hover just below the surface, eye the food, and then shoot forward to catch it (with a click). Even without reading about it I can say that in nature they eat flies etc. that fall in the water. Isn't he beautiful? Male |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 19:13 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Gorgeous LF. Really gorgeous. Have you considered using your 20 or 29g as a breeding tank. Might be kinda fun? My Scapes |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 19:43 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks tetratech I first want to make sure that they make it though QT. My Rams also looked fine for a while, and then they died . And if you don't tell my wife, maybe a commited 10G for breeding (at some point) might be appropriate. What I know so far is that there is quite some time invoved in growing out the fry. Also, it is virtually impossible to identify males and females for a long time. This would mean that you have to keep as many fry as you can to assure possible pairs later on. So overall this would be quite a challenge. Ingo |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 20:14 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Thay are absolutely beautiful! I love the way he flares his spines in the pic of the male. Their behavior is typical cichlid hunting behavior I think as my krib does the same things. It's a delight to watch her picking around the tank. I love it when she jumps out from behind the main driftwood and lunges at one of the other residents, they flee madly away from her and she looks so smug, it's like she's playing a game only she can understand. They may eat bits of the plants but not destroy them. I feed algae flakes every now and then, it is good for the digestion. Most cichlids are omnivorous opportunity feeders. They are truly magnificent Ingo, I really hope they make into their final home with no issues, once there they will quickly become the rulers of their territory I'm sure. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 20:47 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I so have to get my hands on a couple Apistos. I was talking to my boss about it the other day and he said that I am better off trying to get them through the local club rather than him. He also said that they are hardier than Rams. I said cool man! Although I really do like rams too... I guess I will have to set up another tank sometime or change a tank over. I can see some problems occoring later on when I am married... Oh my boss has gone on colecting trips to SA for discus because he used to breed them. I guess I will have to trust him on this one. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 19-Mar-2006 21:39 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | There is one more thing I would like to share about the Apistos, especially the female. I swear I didn't tinker with the camera settings and the lens is reflecting what I see in the tank. I had a feeling this morning that she is coloring up and then I checked again this afternoon. She is getting yellow, which - in terms of Apistogramma viejita - means she is getting ready. Wow, that would be almost too fast . But see for yourself and let me know if I am fooling myself. First sequence is from the evening I got them, so 3 days ago. The middle one is from around 10:30 AM today and the other one is from a few minutes ago, so 7 hours later. EDIT: It also appears as if the middle part of her caudal fin is growing back in already, nice. Do I see Yellow? |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 00:33 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | I see yellow! Therefore you should come see my tank! 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 01:26 | |
mattyboombatty Moderator Tenellus Obsessor Posts: 2790 Kudos: 1507 Votes: 1301 Registered: 26-Mar-2004 | Not quite egg guarding colors, but getting yellower nonetheless. You'll know when she's getting feisty. Lovely couple LF, good luck with them. Breeding them in your water would be difficult though, I think it's a little hard? Acid Rain told me that the eggs harden if the the water isn't soft enough. A 50/50 RO/Tap combo would probably do the trick. I love apistos and other dwarf cichlids(look around at some nannacara sp.), they make up for their size with outstanding colors. Can't believe you completely made over the tank again. This is the 4-5th time? Those plants must get tired of moving, I know I would. Looks nice every time, don't let any nitpickers tell you different. Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 02:45 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Matty, Thanks for the input Yeah, I am getting tired of these major overhauls as well, although I think it is only the second time around that I removed almost all my plants at once. I think I have actually very soft water, the one time I checked my GH I got a reading of 1dH (same as my tab KH), that is why I add the Seachem Equilibrium after each water change. So maybe there is egg hope in the future, although I am certainly not in a rush with anything. All I really want them to do is to survive happily Ingo |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 03:13 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | No phosphates ? You killed Duckweed, a plant that could survive a nuclear holocaust ? Where was all the "I have got a lot of P in my tap" nonsense we've been listening to for the last 65 pages ???? Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late I have to agree the "execution" of the ANubias planting is not the best. Too flat. Get some rocks and tie/rubber band the Anubias on to crate some shape and a bit of mound. Or a bit of rock pile and use the Anubias to fill in cracks etc. You got fill that area with a real nice feature that would be almost maintenance free. It would make a nice playground for the Apisto's too I know you have crypts on the left but add more don't wait for the existing ones to fill in. More, more. hat and the Anubias structure would fill out that side of the tank real nice. Very little work to keep looking good. Those Apisto's have something in common with me - they get better looking with age The after feeding aggression is normal for lots of fishes. After the initial feeding frenzy is over it's time to collect the scraps, lot's a fish will suddenly get territorial and chase away others to give itself a better chance of getting the scraps before anyone else. They poke around the plants looking for things like snail eggs , hydra and other little micro-organisms. Great to watch. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 04:35 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late Yeah, the loss of Duckweed is a miracle to me. Having kept up my dosing of N even with reduced plant mass, and having more fish (by growth, not number) should mean that N was not a factor. The only nutrient I tinkered with was P and I am rather certain that I did not let that one bottom out but more likely had it between 1 and 2ppm. But given that nothing else changed, that must have been it. Or - I see the Rainbows and Pearls occasionally nibbling on it and during my last overhaul about 5 weeks ago I did reduce the amount of duckweed so that only a handful remained. Maybe, just maybe, the fish ate more than the growth rate of the plant. I will create a picture of an Anubias mount on the left of the tank later, and then talk about issues I could see with it. Thanks for the info on the "after feeding" aggression and the poking . Ingo |
Posted 20-Mar-2006 12:23 | |
Tainted Glory Hobbyist Posts: 97 Kudos: 41 Votes: 0 Registered: 03-Dec-2005 | Wouldn't you know it...I went to work on Sunday and found a tankfull of awesome Rasboras. I took a bunch home. Gotta love how that works! Fish are awesome man, Tom hasn't shut up about them yet! Tank looks good too. Good call on the Apistos. |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 01:21 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Its fun bringing fish home from Local breeders. Tonight I just brought home a BN from this guy that is older than dirts tank. He is thinking of pulling the female because he still has way too many of them in his 90G. I think he brought in about 100 of them and he said he has more where that came from....... Nice healthy fish though. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 01:51 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Tainted Glory, So you got some of my Espei, great . How many did you get? Glad to hear that Tom likes my fishies, I guess they sell pretty good then (if not snatched up by all the employees first). Now you take good care of them as I had a rather hard time letting them go . And give me some updates on them once in a while, will you? Ingo |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 12:47 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Gang, I would need all your brain power to help me on the Anubias Mount idea that Bensaf just recently mentioned. It makes perfect sense to me to have the Anubias in that arrangement, but I have quite a few issues with the actual implementation. The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center, orange starts off low on the left and continually rises to the right to attach to the main Star Grass group. Here are a few thoughts: - The main issue I believe is the water flow in the tank. The spray bar is on the top left side (horizontally) and the intake sits also on the left side at the back bottom. I am concerned that a mount right in front of the intake would create a rather strong current in that area. I also could see that such a layout would cut off the right side from the water flow completely. - If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake? - Keeping the overall structure in mind, would that create a nice horizon (light blue) for the whole length? What are your ideas? Ingo Some Options |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 19:50 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | Ingo after all the work you just did on the tank, are you sure you're ready to mess with the structure more? If so here's my idea for making the retreat for fry safe from the intake and keeping a nice horizon. Here It's in very bright colours but I think it's straight forward. "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 21:27 | |
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004 | If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake? Umm, do you want more Espei fry? It's also no guarantee that they'll breed over there, plus this isn't an Espei breeding tank, so i would'nt change the landscape around just to fit their needs. As for the Apistos, if you want to make things nice for them to breed make a little bit of rock work on the far side of the tank, on the right. They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse. Besides, in order to survive with the pearls and rainbows they'll have to hang out in the undergrowth and not wander too far - by the time they're big enough to safely come out they should be strong enough swimmers |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 21:39 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | luvmykrib - Yup, bright colored, but easy to understand . I was almost afraid that someone suggests this "change" as it was an option that I had on my mind but neglected to mention because of the work involved . Actually, I think this would be the best solution for all things considered. NowherMan6, sure do I want more Espei . Didn't you see the entry above from Tainted Glory? He works at the LFS where I just traded my Espei. Imagine if I could get all future fish on a reduced price ba And again, as I mentioned to luvmykrib , I thought that this is how it would have to be. Anubias on rocks to the right, doubling up as a breeding ground for Espei and Apistos. That may work. It might actually not be such a mess to swap the 2 groups. All Amubias are sitting rather lose on the gravel at the left and most plants on the right can be easily pulled (except the Red Rubin Sword, that will be a little messy). At least the gravel does not have a lot of gunk on it as it had been cleaned very well last weekend. In addition, I will recieve (I believe tomorrow) a plant order of: Mother plant Green Wendtii Mother plant Red Wendtii A Few Stems of Ludwigia arcuata (Needle Leaf) And for the fun of it - 1 Anubias pynaertii and 1 Anubias afzelii I guess I will "park" them in the tank until I have more time to plant on the weekend. |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 22:34 | |
luvmykrib Fish Addict Posts: 585 Kudos: 256 Votes: 27 Registered: 08-Nov-2005 | I am glad you were also thinking of that suggestion, I didn't want it to come from left field but I think it will look quite nice when it's done. I recently added the l. arcuata to both my tanks, it's a great plant with small needle leaves, the one in the 10 is shedding leaves as quick as it is growing new ones, but it is still growing and that's what counts, maybe keep it away from the current will help, and the one in the 25 looks great, it is a wonderful contrast to the lager leaves of the crypts and the nana it is beside. Too bad it doesn't come in red, it doesn't does it? More anubias to fill in the mound? The more the merrier! How will you be able to tell them apart? Little garden tags beside each one? Can't wait to see them. Have you decided which rocks to pile together and how it may look when it's finished? "If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything." -Family Circus |
Posted 21-Mar-2006 23:21 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks luvmykrib for the info on the arcuata. I ordered only 4 and given the prize for it I assume it means 4 stems (I actually wanted to have another type of Ludwigia, but they were out of that one and called me to select a replacement, very nice). With such a small mass to begin with it will take a while before I have a needle forest . Good idea about the plant tags, I am sure that it is only a question of time until I will have to look at photos on the web to identify which plant is what. Fortunately I am pretty good at adding the names of the plants I have to my profile, so at least I don't have to even search for that. I have loads of rock of the kind that you see holding down the big branch. I simply assumed that I will go ahead and pile them up somehow, leaving small openings and overhangs for the Apistos and the Espei. Do I know how it will look in the end? No clue . I think the one thing that stopps me from becoming a good scaper is the fact that I am rather bad at imagening how things will look like when all is said and done . Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 00:50 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse Yes that's really true the 2 times I did see eggs in my tank from my rams they spawned in two different areas of the tank. First time it was on the surface of a flat rock the 2nd time they spawned on the vertical face of one of the rocks making up the beachfront. So ya never know what they're thinking. Might be a coincedence but the 2nd time they spawned in the front the eggs never made it to fry. The first them I had about 100 fry, but you know the story from there............ My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 00:56 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Thanks tetratech, certainly an interesting observation. I hope one day I can report back on multiple spawning sites, but until then we have to hope that they make it though. And tetratech, no comment on the desired Anubias mount? You currently are the man of the perfect layout, I need your advice . Besides that, I am in love with a girl. Yes, besides my wife and daughter, I have a new girl. The female Apisto has taken my heart by storm. Just look at her development in only 5 days: My Love |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 02:21 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | I can't see any problems with flow etc. Many people use big structures like this hide intakes etc. I know I do. Take out the Anubias , get a few rocks and put them in and arrange, study, re-arrange 'til you are happy (late August 2012 is my guess ). You are not uprooting anything so it'll be minimal disturbance. If you like you rubber band select Anubias to the rocks, the rest can just be put in cracks or gaps (don't force them in). I gurantee you'll be happy with the look. It's a very natural vista and it will help highlight and balance the more delicate lines of the driftwood. Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 03:54 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Besides that, I am in love with a girl. I assume your not like ther rest of us poor slobs and you go for personally as well as looks. Unless you go saltwater it's tough to beat the personally and looks of the dwarf cichlids. I have to go back again to look at the anubias situation. Remember I only had anubias once and I didn't like the way it looked in my setup. My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 04:48 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, Your fish is looking really nice. She must like you too. Well at least what you have given her. As for the Anubias mound. Bensaf has already kind of said what to do. Just keep playing with it until you find something that flows for you. This will be easy for you to change and mess around with too. The one thing I would like to add though is to try using fishing line instead of rubber bands. It won't jump out at you as much. Just make sure to not tie it too tight and cut the plant. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 05:09 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | you go for personally as well as looksYeah, she seems to be very smart, well spoken, and displays great manners at the dinner table Honestly, I thought these fish may be a little on the shy side first, but when they swim near the front glass they don't move away at all when I touch it. It almost seems as if they would like to come even closer so I can pet them (I think I lost it completely). Wings - thanks for the info. I have gotten pretty good at tying things down with thread and I think I will stick to that method. And for Apisto food, appetizers are flakes and the main course is some freeze dried tubifex worms. Speaking of Anubias (), I am currently paying the prize for letting them sit out of the water during the overhaul. As I mentioned before, various leaves did not like the hours in the air and started wo wrinkle up and appreared very dry. Most seemed to have recovered though, but a few are now displaying holes and missing pieces on the edges. Maybe during the creation of the mount I will cut them off, albeit they don't show signs of disintegration, just missing parts. Speaking of mount etc., anyone has any idea where I would place the two Wendtiis (red/green)? I don't have them yet, but given the prize and desc Sorry about the long entry, Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 15:44 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Long entries are cool but you better check the thread out about Flourish Excel. (someone is in trouble...) So you know that you do not do will with Crypts so what do you do... get more of them.... just remember half of being smart is knowing what your bad at and staying away from it. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 16:06 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | half of being smart is knowing what your bad at and staying away from it ... and the other 90% of being smart is learning from your mistakes and making it better the next time around . Crypts are simply to nice to only try once. Although you are right and I had no success with them so far, I still managed to maintain some of them for one year now. They just never turned into anything and all just have a few leaves (new ones come, old ones melt). It may have to do with the fact that I divided the original plant way too early, just a guess. Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 16:45 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center I'm not following this anubias mound. You do mean mound right, because you keep saying mount (2nd language thing or typo?) If I follow correctly an anubias mound on one side of the tank. Aren't anubias used scattered around a big tank to fill in between rocks, wood and sometimes other plants for contrast. Can't you make an "anubias playground" in front of the main rock/dw/stargrass area making it dense in the middle front then less dense as you move away from the middle. If not enough space, you might be able to move the grassy plant in front of the stargrass into two groups that are left and right of the center with the anubias group sort o in the middlefront and blending into it. My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 17:01 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | mound - ah yes, that is what I mean, thanks See, logically for me, a small mountain is a mount and not a mound. So where did the t get replaced with a d? That's the problem with English as a second language. In front of the Star Grass group may be nice as well, you are right. But the tank is only 18" deep and I would have to build the group over the main flat branch it the front all the way to the glass. I think it will become very crowded there with this approach. Also, the Anubias leaves will lose their contrasting appearance with the overwhelming Star Grass behind it. I will take a closer look at this option tonight. Otherwise, what do you think about a mound on the left of the Star Grass? Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 17:19 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Otherwise, what do you think about a mound on the left of the Star Grass? Personally I think it would look good if you did one on the right side as well. I'm not saying everything has to be symmetrical, but in this case I think it would'nt "flow" good to have anubias just on the left. I think you also need to decide on your corners. You know you could lay those heaters down so you won't see them. You could also buy those hydor inline heaters and it will completely eliminate those two heaters in the tank. I just think heightening the corners reduces your flexiblity and competes with the center. Unless your gonna build a back of varying height all the way across. My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 17:41 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Hay, all these decisions Unless your gonna build a back of varying height all the way acrossThat is pretty much what I have, isn't it? Also, I think you may misunderstand the mound idea. I would like it to be really low on the way way left, rising towards the Star Grass. I could even go so far as leaving a few inches open all the way at the left and all the way to the back. if you did one on the right side as wellHm, sounds nice, but the downside would be that there will be not much space left for any other type of plant. buy those hydor inline heaters and it will completely eliminate those two heaters in the tankI actually have currently 3 heaters in the tank, two stealth at 200W each on the left and one regular with 300W on the right. If I am not mistaken then the Hydor have a max capacity of 300W. I would have to have a few in line (or parallel) and I don't know how feasible that would be. Too many thoughts, "overload - Will Robinson" Ingo |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 18:21 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Well, when I look at your tank right now, I see mostly high center and high corners. I think I understand the mound, but I guess I would have to see it with anubias only in one location. If it's a tank in itself with an anubias mound that of course we have seen. Your right about the heater. I bet you don't even need the 300 watt visi-therm. I have one 250 watt stealth and I have absolutely no fluctation and I just went through a New York Winter. Actually if the mild winters keep up I'll have to get a chiller. You know they sell these regulators inline that chill and heat? I think you could fit a 6-pack in there as well. My Scapes |
Posted 22-Mar-2006 19:09 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | Too many thoughts, "overload - Will Robinson" So just to prove that I have some sort of reading issue. I read Will Robinson as Robin Williams. Inline heaters? Sounds really sweet. tetratech. post a link! I guess it is hard to see what you have in mind for the Anubias. Can't wait to see whats in your head. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 00:14 | |
bensaf Fish Master Posts: 1978 Kudos: 1315 Registered: 08-Apr-2004 | Welcome to neurosis central folks ! Pull up a chair and grab a Prozac Anubias are very very versatile. They can be used to fill gaps , make backgrounds, mounds etc. Remember too that LF has some of the taller bigger varieties. It doesn't have to be a mound - it can be a peak if you want. Whatever rocks your boat. But whatever it is it can only look better then laying flat on the substrate, a waste of plant and space IMHO Tetra didn't like the look of Anubias in his tank becasue he chopped it up into little bits and spread it around the tank in really odd places Thankfully he has learned to aquascape since then Something has to be done with the left section it's a barren wasteland compared to the rest of the tank. Ingo, With the crypts if they fit I would put them altogether. I've mentioned before crypts always seem to do better when planted in groups. Individual plants always seem to be a bit wimpy. A 6 footer is not easy to 'scape. I'm guessing that the best way to approach is take a small section perfect that and then see what will work best to flow away from there. Basically work your way from one side to the other. I think the pile of rock with Anubias fronted by a thick grove of crypts would be real nice, simple but effective. The tall species like the Congensis are particularly suitable for this approach. It'll be darker there but that will offset the brighter stargrass even better. How long is it going to take to temporarily rubber band a few Anubias to rocks and put in the tank and play around with it ? Stop pulling the last two hairs on your head out and get your hands wet Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability. |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 03:56 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | Tetra didn't like the look of Anubias in his tank becasue he chopped it up into little bits and spread it around the tank in really odd places If the plant can't stand being chopped up and put in strange places and positions then "GET OUT OF MY TANK" It's funny I originally got that anubias for my 12gallon and it didn't make the cut in their either. My Scapes |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 04:26 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Gang, Thanks so much for your input, but anything that came after Noon yesterday has not been read until all was planted . As such, the tank is yet again a product of my skewed visions of what may look good. But first things first, the plants were already at home when I arrived, not too bad for having ordered them just the day before. Well, upon opening the package I was a little in shock. The order was a bit larger than expected, in particular the Wendtiis were huge and the Anubias pynaertii has a hight of about 18 inches. Also, I got 3 Anubias afzelii (ordered one) and 6 bunches of Needle leaf Ludwigia with 8 stems each. I think by now I can recommend this source of plants, I believe tetratech uses them as well - aquariumplants.com. New Plants have Arrived |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 12:12 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Next I had to wash them all. This took quite a while because the Wendtiis turned out to be multiple plants (5 green and 3 red), each encased with this nasty growing wool . After cleaning I placed them all in the tank to avoid drying out (as happened last weekend to some of my Anubias) while I ripped out my last two hairs wondering what to do now (where is the smiley simboizing a bald guy? ). The big mount idea was gone very soon as I determined that it would take loads of rock to create any significant height (played with the rocks I have on the coffee table). BTW, I was reading about Floating Meadows in TFH and somehow this arrangement just looks like one. The younger Espei really like zooming through these floating plants. Maybe there is an idea for the future or another hobbyist. Plants parked |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 12:17 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Then it was time to take action, and boy it was almost another major overhaul yet again . First I removed all plants from the far right, except the Alternanthera. Here I added all 5 Green Wendtii in the midground and some pearl grass in front of it. Gaps were filled with Helferi and Retrospiralis remains. Next it was the Pearl Grass valley's turn, out with all the plants. I placed some Helferi in the way back and a rock with the Congensis at the right of the valley. In front of that rock I tied my 2 mystery Anubias and my 3 new Afzelii to the rock that holds down the wood on the right. In the gap I placed one of the red Wendtii and another one in front of the Star Grass. On to the left side. All Anubias Barterii and Nana out of the tank and back in, closer to the Star Grass group, with the new Peruensis in the back (tied to a small rock as it had insufficient roots to be stuck into the gravel). A Helferi and 2 smaller Retrospiralis are added for contrast. Then I regrouped my existing crypt plants (small Wendtiis, Lucens, Lutea) in front of it, the narrow leaf and needle leaf Ludwigias to the left, and one new red Wendtii in front of that group. Last but not least I filled gaps with small plants, mostly Pearl Grass. So, 3 hours later- here is the result: New Tank Layout |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 12:20 | |
LITTLE_FISH ***** Little Fish ***** Master of Something Posts: 7303 Kudos: 1997 Votes: 670 Registered: 20-May-2005 | Then it was time to close shop as I got tired and it was almost time for lights out in the tank. I fed the fish (they can also be seen eating on top in the full shot) and just enough time for one more picture from the right half of the tank, an attempt to show more detail. Then the lights went out in the tank and it was time to say good night. Overall, as usual, I am not too excited with the results, but I am not disappointed either. The least I get out of this is a larger plant mass Right Half |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 12:23 | |
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005 | LF, Pretty good work my friend. I like it. Did you about poo your pants after finding plants that look as large as house plants to go in your tank? The one thing I sugest to you is move the grassy plants on the left closer to the center. 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 14:29 | |
tetratech Ultimate Fish Guru Posts: 4241 Kudos: 1074 Registered: 04-Nov-2003 | LF, I think you did a fine job placing the anubias in and around the wooded area in the center and spreading it out. Have you considered adding some more rock work to the left and right of the center to hide some stems and give it more depth and take out the flatness. Nothing overpowering just accents, but it will give it more visual interest and blend it with the center. My Scapes |
Posted 23-Mar-2006 14:55 |