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I like the open area, haven't seen your gravel in a very long time!
The glosso really did grow into a (shag) carpet but it probably made cleaning a b**ch, eh?
That sword doesn't look too bad where it is but it will most likely outgrow that spot in no time.
What are your plans for the newly uncovered gravel?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Ingo

As always a nice looking tank. My only hopes is that my meager efforts will look half as nice on the new tank we've been discussing.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

First things first! The picture of the flower/air bubble is pretty darn sweet! I like it a lot.

The plant in the right front corner (Stargrass?). Is that a temp. home because it seems really out of place taking way from the flow of the tank. Its just way to tall.

Your plants are growing really really really well but there really really really needs to be something to break up the plants. Right now it seems like a jungle of plants and no true spot to focus on.

If you are going to leave the front open gravel I would say either do something with rock work like tetratech beach front or DW (sorry for bringing up the DW thing again). If you could find some darker plants like a wendtii crypt would help break things up a bit too.

Sorry to hear about all the hours you have been working. I hope it all pays off and you don't kill yourself in the process.


Post # 700 for me!!

Last edited by Wingsdlc at 22-Jan-2006 21:37

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I agree with Wings about some bare rocks or driftwood. I know finding large attractive pieces is hard but for the edge of the bare area you wouldn't need really large pieces, just a few medium sized pieces carefully placed to look like the naturally drifted there. A few strategicly placed darker crypts would also draw attention to them and break up all the green. Hope it makes sense, I wish I could get what's in my head out in type, but it just doesn't work. I just think the green is great but there's not enough contrast.
The stargrass is too tall for where it is. It may look better closer to the left side f the tank where there are taller plants. Not sure there though.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

We seem to be doing the same things.

I too removed my Glosso at the weekend.

I had only put it in out of curiosity as I'd never tried. Now I know I can grow it. Mission accomplished.

Like yours it had overgrown itself multiple times and needed to be cleaned up. I had removed with the itention of trimming and replanting but once out I realised that the the Erect moss had filled in real nice, some hairgrass that had come in with the Glosso had managed to get nicely established and the sand looked nice, so all in all it looked much better without it.

Just goes to show, Glosso is one of those plants that gets lots of ooh's and ah's and a lot of people aspire too, but in the end can be a bigger PITA then it's worth.

Like you I did keep some way off to one side. Just want to keep some going in case I decide to use in another tank. I really like it, but it's just not suitable for the current layout on this tank.

About the Uruquayensis, it will grow up nicely but slowly. I have one that I bought about the same size as yours , it took 4 or 5 months to start putting out leaves of a decent size (about 12". Once it starts the new leaves will continue to increase in size. You did right to move it. I mentioned to you before it's always going to be more of a mid ground plant rather then a background one.

Last edited by bensaf at 22-Jan-2006 21:21

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks everybody for the comments .

Yeah, the Star Grass was a small plantling that I added to the tank when I redid my 20G QT. I was curious as to what it may become (now I know) and later on served as a pawn in the Starr Grass Wars II . It is all the way to the top now and soon I will have to do something about it, just don’t know what yet.

Open gravel or not, I don’t know yet. I think I (we) will get a better idea once all the Glosso is removed, so in maybe 1 to 2 weeks.

The Uruguaensis did already put out quite a few new leaves and even gained a little height, but it became way too shaded in the jungle. There is still a Red Melon Sword in the left back (was a freebee) and it is hanging in. I don’t know if I want that one in the first place, but the cheap guy I am I couldn’t simply neglect the free plant . So overall I have 3 kinds of Swords (besides the grassy ones) in the tank that I am not sure of, as there is also the Red Rubin on the right. The problem I have with all of them is that they will take up quite some real estate on the gravel bed, meaning no other plant can be located very close to it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I too removed my Glosso at the weekend.
Yeah, but I'm the only one with a BLACK Sand Hawaiian, beach front.

I was curious as to what it may become (now I know) and later on served as a pawn in the Starr Grass Wars II
That poor plant, used as a pawn in your dirtly little war. Putting a plant out of place to compete. Isn't that against the AGA code of ethics.




Last edited by tetratech at 23-Jan-2006 04:41

My Scapes

Your tank pics are awesome

I'm trying Marsilea Quadrafolia (poor man's glosso). Fitting ! LOL..

Re: Your E. Ura. sword. My E bleheris died in a darker area of the tank, meanwhile my Ozelot Red in a better lit area is doing great so I hear you on plant positioning.

Regards,
DaMossMan

The Amazon Nut...

tetratech -

Well, my beachfront is more like the Long Island North Shore, but without all the garbage .
And what would have happened to your scape if I wouldn’t have used the Star Grass pawn to tickle you a little .

DaFishMan – Oih – DaMossMan – Nice name change

I will have to look up this plant, Marsilea Quadrafolia. And thanks for the compliments on the pictures .

Ingo

EDIT: Yeah, just remembered this plant - Four Leaf Clover. Doesn't that grow rather tall, like 2 inches or so?

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 23-Jan-2006 07:40

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am not sure on the hight but I was looking into that plant too at one time. I am sure much of what it will turn into depends on your lighting.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I've just acquired it recently, 3/4 inch height at the moment.

It may be called Marsilea Quadr-I-folia, instead of -A-.
A link for you

[link=http://www.floridadriftwood.com/aquariumplants_marsilea_quadrifolia.html]http://www.floridadriftwood.com/aquariumplants_marsilea_quadrifolia.html" style="COLOR: #FFFFFF[/link]

SOMEONE kept hinting at a name change, so here I be

The Amazon Nut...

Question: How do you know you are an Aquarium Nerd?

Answer: When your co-worker brings you this t-shirt from his vacation trip

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And to proof it, here is yet another shot of the flowering Narrow Leaf Sagittaria, this time with a beautiful air bubble in it.



Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I like the first picture of the flower much better.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

You think so? I would have thought that the fact one can really see the air bubble would make the latter the prettier picture.

But I guess the fact that other parts of the tank are visible in the first picture make it more appealing (in this instance, at least).

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think the first picture is sharper than the second one. I find the blurry plants up close distracting and I really don't thing its as in focus as the first. Just me though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

OK Wings,

Then I will add the first picture to "My Flower Pictures" thread in the Photo Booth forum

Will have to wait until tonight though.

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh man... by no means should you be going off of just me....haha

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

When your co-worker brings you this t-shirt from his vacation trip
I think I have you beat on the t-shirt geekness thing.

Remember this pic, my son made me a t-shirt for the holidays. Now I have to wear it somewhere



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Tetra

Next time you get called for jury duty you know what to wear. C'mon, how awesome would that be?


LF, I wouldn't worry so much about the pictures as i would worry about that BBA growing on your sag. leaf in the background...

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Back in the saddle!

Next time you get called for jury duty you know what to wear.
Nowher That is really funny and it would be awesome if I had the guts to do it. I would have to go drinking with Bensaf first.

LF, I wouldn't worry so much about the pictures as i would worry about that BBA growing on your sag. leaf in the background


My Scapes

... Aaaaanyway, LF, I was cruising ebay and I saw this, another DW piece, possibly suited to cutting. It's pretty large.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Driftwood-Spider-Aquarium-Reptile-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ7739817294QQcategoryZ66790QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Back in the saddle!

]:|]:|]:|

Having fun here?

If there is any BBA then it is so minor that I don't worry about it at all (at least until you brought it up).

Thanks for that,

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Having fun here?
I would have to say YES!!!!

Well if it makes you feel better I have some BBA too. I stopped my excel treatment and it looks like it's starting to regroup. I think my diandra melted from the excel it's about gone.

Anyway I don't have time or the intent on changing all my parameters to suit one plant. Everything else is doing great.

I guess I'll have to raise my co2 to 100 to get rid of the BBA



My Scapes

Having fun here?

Absolutely!



And yes, I have some BBA too, on the older leaves of my tenellus. And some hair algae on some rotala and luwigia Dangit, where's that Excel...


I hear ya on the CO2, tetra. That's not a bad idea. Anyone want to buy 15 harley rasboras and a few yo-yo loaches?

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Back in the saddle!

Like NowherMan6 would say:

Aaaaanyway,



This is not a Sag leaf but a very old and no longer growing Crypt Retrospiralis leaf. And just another point to proof that slow or non growing leaves are more e to algae.



Ingo

EDIT: As a side note, have you seen my Avg Posts/Day?

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 24-Jan-2006 13:30

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

10.0 post per day
LF, your an animal

At that rate you'll pass me on Sunday, just in time for your weekly update.

Last edited by tetratech at 24-Jan-2006 13:42

My Scapes

How do you find out your average postings? Do you have to be a super member??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingdsc,

No, just go to profile in any of your posts and there's a line that says "avg post/day"



My Scapes

Well,

The yesterday was not an easy day for me.

Most of all I was worried that my thread wouldn't make it into the new design.

But also I showed clear signs of withdrawal.

I missed you all,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oddly enough though there is a page 48 in this thread while all new entries are still written to page 47.

And all new entries seem to be dated as Jan 4th.

I guess we will see if we ever catch up with this extra page.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Things are just a little bit wild here now. It is crazy how much time I spend here and when I can't I go a little nuts.... I feel your pain LF!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hey LF and Wings,

I'm there with ya too.

The funny thing is, when I was at work and I tried going to FP, I got an IE message saying I was forbidden to view that page, and I was scared out of my mind that my firm saw I was going on this website so often they blocked me from using it

But anyway... brrr, is it just me or is the new format a little cold?

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks Guys,

I guess we will see when we catch up with that extra page that follows this one

I think it will be a while until I have gotten used to the new interface, but it seems to have some cool features, like this one: MTS

just move the mouse over the letters and you will see.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Most of all I was worried that my thread wouldn't make it into the new design.

Actually we (and I'm not saying who "we"is) thought your log had broken FP. Also had a giggle at the thought of you going cold turkey without you 10 posts a day.

Have to agree with nowhere, while I love the new features, I do find the color scheme a bit Very chilly. I'm sure we'll get used to it in time.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ok Bensaf,

Put the cards on the table - Who are the "we"



This one day of silence cost me my 10ppd and I will have to work hard to get back to it

Ingo

HA - I finally caught up with that extra page

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Put the cards on the table
Are you implying something - HOC

My Scapes

Who is behind the Plant-Nerd Conspiracy?

On the tank front - I have no news.

The Apon has put up another flower, looking very nice but I don't want to bother you with yet another flower picture (of the same kind).

The Pearls, lost their shyness and, unlike in the 20G QT, the male and female hang out and patrol the tank together.

The Rainbows in the QT are doing fine too, although the one with the missing fin part doesn't seem to grow it back. Somebody in the LFS or in his other home must have bitten a big chunk out of the fish. He is fine though.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
I was in a LFS that I don't frequent that often. It's run by an old-timer who has been in the business over 35 years. He isn't much for presentation, but he does get alot of fish. It was rainbow city, he had at least 10 species of rainbow fish.

He had yours (praecox), Red Iranians and big Boeseman. He's very pricy. The praecox, were $13.99 and the big Boeseman $39.99.

What did I walk out with you ask? Half a dosen cardinals of course!


My Scapes

LF,

Have the pearls had an effect on the espei breeding? or should i say, the ability of the fry to survive... i don't think they alone could get them to stop breeding

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks for the info tetratech - yeah, I paid $12 for the juvenile Rainbows, adults in my LFS cost $20

NowherMan6 - I have no idea if the Pearls have an influence on the Espei breeding success. Overall it looks like I have less very young Espei, or I simply can't find them in the Jungle. This could be based on the fact that I have loads of fish now that would by chance come across a baby and well, eat it.

I have no chance of counting how many Espei are in there now, probably way too many.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I still can't get over how much you guys are paying for Rainbows. Dwarf Blue's at my store are normaly 4 for $10 and Boesemani for 14 or 11 depeding on how big they are. Most of the time these aren't really small fish.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingdsc,
What state do you live in? Things are pretty expensive in NY and NJ. Actually the prices of fish very greatly from LFS to LFS in my area anyway. I could pay $1.25 for a cardinal or $2.99. Bolivians $5 to $12. There is a store on the east end of L.I. that is really cheap. I know I've seen Discus there for $20.

My Scapes

Quick Question Guys (before I go out to dinner):

Have you ever seen this specific piece?



Attached Image:

The Wood

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Looks familiar...


Sly as a fox you are, LF. Glad you got it, it was too good to pass up.

Now, when you arrange that in your tank, enter the tank in the next AGA aquascaping contest and win... whatever it is you win with first place... I expect ten percent of the winnings...

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6,

Now you know why I didn't react at all when you presented the next one you found.

Actually, a small piece on the top right corner broke off and I stuck it on for the picture. Nothing too bad though.

So, now that I have it, what am I going to do with it? How do I clean it (do I have to? ), do I have to make it water-logged before I put it in the tank? What else is there to look out for.

BTW, dimesions in the displayed position are roughly 38" long, 18" heigh, and 22" wide. So in this configuration it wouldn't even fit in. I will take a few more shots so you can see it in different positions.

Thanks NowherMan6 - I challenged you to find me a nice piece and it took you all of 10 minutes to do so

Ingo

PS: BTW, I hope they (aka Adam) fix the problem with the page count. After I caught up with this page I now have another one following this one. And even worse, I cannot access any page that is marked with the dots at the top and bottom of any current page, so right now only 1-5 and 44 and up is accessible. I guess that is a problem in all threads with ... page counts. Darn!

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What can I say LF, "Your an animal"

Seriously, that is a great piece and it holds many possibilites. Have fun with it.



My Scapes

Ok Guys,

Here are a few more shots of the wood.

Please let me know which position you think looks the best.
Also, I think Nowherman6 mentioned cutting some pieces off and place in the right side of the tank (and tetratech agreed) - what pieces would that be (please)?

The preivously posted on shall be called No1, all following will be numbered accordingly. Simply refer to the number when referencing a preference

Ingo

Attached Image:

No 2

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Next

Attached Image:

No 3

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Next

Attached Image:

No 4

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Next

Attached Image:

No 5

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LAST

Actually, this was the same angle than No 2, sorry about that

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Nice chunk of wood. I like it alot. Does your wife know how much you spent on it? Or doesn't she seem to care anymore. Better spent on wood than hanging out in the pubs with Bensaf.

I vote for Number three for your tank. If it was a non planted tank I think #4 would be cool but to work with plants hanging on and around #3 is where its at. In my personal veiw of things.

tetratech,
I live in MI.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Agree, No. 3 looks the best, though they all look really awesome if you ask me

As for washing it, maybe fill up the bath tub with water and add some bleach. Scrub it, then drain the tub, rinse it out, then fill it with clean water and a boat load of Prime and soak the wood over night in it. That should get any nasties out of it. Just soak it real good afterwards. You'll also be able to tell if it sinks on its own. It looks heavy enough, but you never know. If it won't stay down in the tank you may need to break out the power drill and attach a slate base to it - which should be pretty simple.

As for cutting it, without being able to see it in 3D its hard to tell, but In view three I can see cutting along the red line as in the pic below. That'll give you one big branchy piece and one smaller branchy piece - or at least it looks like it would from the angle of the pic.




Attached Image:

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Back in the saddle!

At last some wood.

No 2 or No.3 looks good. Just make sure the branchy bits are pointing upwards and outwards. Then it's just a case of do you want them to point towards the left or the right.

Be interesting to see how you make this work.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks everybody for the suggestions

Now I guess the real work will begin, as I already see some problems, grrrr.

For example:

The position of No 2 creates a total heigth (even after separating the suggested section) of 22", too heigh for the tank.

Other layouts create a width of over 18" (up to 22) and the tank is only 18" wide.

When looking at some options to separate sections for a second group I also encouter the issue that the trunk area would look rather bold (compared to the nice skinny branched area) and unsightly.

Soo much work

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As NowherMan6 said you always have the option of cutting and adding it to slate or if it sinks you can just cut. Just remember its easy to take things apart but putting them together isn't as easy most of the time. Good Luck!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings,

I realize that the event of adding this (or any similar) piece of wood is the single most complex task this tank has seen so far. Even the initial planting is easy compared to the tasks at hand.

I am getting more than just a little scared when thinking about the process:

- Make sure wood is cut to fit nicely into the tank
- Make sure position is eye-pleasing
- Make sure wood stays down
- Redo the entire (yes, all of them) plant scape by removing pretty much all plants and putting them in new spots (to accomodate the wood)
- Decide on what to do with the rocks, in particular Rock Valley
- Do this all while maybe 100 fish are in the tank
- Explain to the wife why you need the bath tub for at least for a day
- Explain to the wife why you have to spend another 12 hours on a weekend for tank maintenance

I got my work cut out and my brain is working overtime (so far with no success ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hopefully you won't have to take all the plants out.

Definnately cut it up into more manageable pieces.

Good luck explaining the chainsaw to the wife

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf,

I can't have a chainsaw, I would be too afraid to lose a leg in the process of cutting the wood .

Good thing I am currently still too busy to complete the Glosso cleanup. The wood will have to wait a week or two anyways. Maybe in that time the situation will become a little clearer.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,

I responded but the post created an error on the site (I swear that my writing wasn't all that bad).

So again,

I don't think I can use a chainsaw as I am too afraid of cutting my leg off in the process.

Also, I am currently still working on the Glosso cleanup so the wood will have to wait a week or two anyway. This should give me some more time to think about possible layouts.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

No use rushing things. The DW is going to take some time. I would first cut the sucker up into the chunks you want to use (think a lot, check 2,3,4,5,6 times then make your cuts.) its way easier to cut than put them back together. Then start preping the wood. The smaller chunks should make this easier. I wish you the best of luck.

Here is a tank that might give you some ideas.
http://tropicalfishchat.net/index.php?showtopic=1918
The top picture...


Chainsaws are a little scary at first but once you start to use them its like driving a car.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

Chainsaws are a little scary at first but once you start to use them its like driving a car.

If that is true then I for sure will lose a leg as I crashed my first car within 2 weeks after getting a license

Nice tank link, I see the similarity in wood, but that's about it. The one pictured does not have any focus, sticks coming out all over the place.

Good advice on taking it easy, Wings. I will do that, no need to rush anyway.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

You best just draw the lines where you want it cut and find a modern day Paul Bunyan to do the cutting for you. No use loosing a leg man.

It was just some ideas. On that site he has some more picture of the tank that are better than that one but I don't feel like looking them up.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

LF,
You could also use a sawsall. A little less intimidating than a chain saw. I use a sawsall to cut my main piece in half.

My Scapes

Sawsall's Rock! You can do so much with them!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Weekly Updates - Week 18

Well, this week was marked yet again by not paying too much attention to the tank. Although work has slowed down a little (finally), I decided to spend my time with the family as they haven’t seen too much of me since this year started.

The only think worthwhile mentioning was the arrival of my driftwood, now I will just have to find out what to do with it. One thing is for sure, when I add it to the tank it will require another major replant as there is no space left in the jungle.

The water change this weekend was also used to finish the Glosso cleanup, no there is pretty much none left in the tank. It is hard to believe how much gunk was collected wherever the Glosso has been. I also had to move a few plants for height reasons.

The weekly pictures are only from the last 3 weeks to show the cleanup in succession, then there will be a few close-ups.

This was the tank 2 weeks ago before the cleanup started:


Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And this was last week with the area around Rock Valley already cleaned:

Attached Image:

Last Week

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And this is today, all Glosso is gone. You also see the new plants (actually not new, but replanted) on the back left and right front:

Attached Image:

Today

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the new Rotala Macandra group in the right front, created with the some of the stems that used to be on the left and a few cuttings from the main group:

Attached Image:

Rotala Macandra

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is a Green Wendtii, I haven’t seen that plant in a while as the Glosso was all over it:

Attached Image:

Green Wendtii

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Another Green Wendtii, I am amazed that it is still there as it had a hard time pushing leaves through the layers and layers of Glosso:

Attached Image:

Green Wendtii

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, and in order to entertain tetratech, here is a close-up of the replanted Star Grass. It got too tall in the front corner and is now helping on the left to make sure that the tank looks just like a jungle:

Attached Image:

Star Grass

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tank is amazing littlefish, I kinda liked the glosso though I see why you took it out.

love the new smilies

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

Thanks bcwcat22,

Yeah - I liked the Glosso as well, believe me

Until it started to rot underneath. It was my fault, I should have tried to trim it earlier. There is a little left in the tank and who knows, maybe some day I will have another carpet.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Great move taking the star grass out of the front, it looked out of place there. It fits in much better completing the jungle on the left side The macandra looks much better in its place, and hopefully you can keep it low.

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Back in the saddle!

I actually like the gravel you can see in the front of your tank. Adding in the DW will really take your tank to a new level.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks guys

The spot for the Star Grass is only temporary as well. As are most other plant locations rigth now. Once the wood is added the tank will need a complete makeover as I doubt that any in it's current spot will compliment the new layout. This spot was selected so I can get a feeling of how it would look with the existing plants when grouped.

Do you have any thoughts on the rocks that I have in there? Somehow I think that driftwood would profit more from smaller (than Rock Valley) and boulder shaped rocks.

Ingo

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Warning:

If you are not interested in my hassle with driftwood, skip the next at least 8 posts, otherwise read on


Well,

I was looking at the wood now for 3 days straight and still couldn't come up with the perfect solution. I decided it is time to take at least some action, otherwise it would sit there forever and never end up in my tank. So, I cut it up .

I decided that the main stem takes up way too much real estate for my plant mass. This basically left me with two useful branches whereby one of them could be divided into two as well (but I haven't done that). Now that I have these two pieces I am not any closer on knowing what to do with them - I am a driftwood failure. Maybe you guys can help me out, as I don't know what to do .

Let me show you some pictures of them. I added measurements below each picture, they are in inches and ordered by length x width x height for the position in which the wood is displayed. Keep in mind that my tank is 72" x 17.5" by 17.5" (from the top of the gravel in the front of the tank to the bottom of the top black rim).

Attached Image:

Main Branch, 19 x 16 x 20

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Next

Attached Image:

Extra Branch, 25 x 7 x 15

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Setup 1

Attached Image:

Configuration No1, 44 x 16 x 15

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Setup 2

Attached Image:

Configuration No2, 43 x 17 x 18.5

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Setup 3

Attached Image:

Configuration No3, 42 x 16 x 16

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Setup 4

Attached Image:

Configuration No4, 44 x 17 x 16

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Setup 5

Attached Image:

Configuration No5, 37 x 16 x 16.5

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Last, Setup 6

Attached Image:

Configuration No6, 45 x 17 x 16.5

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Well,

I am soaking it now in the tub and as expected it doesn't sink. We will see how long it takes until it stays under by itself. The big piece is still too big to be submersed completely and I let the skinny branches stick out.

Ingo

Attached Image:

Wood on a Dive

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Maybe you have this going on but I would put the biggest parts of the drift wood in the back of the tank and have the branches sticking out as much as posible to the front of the tank. It is just kind of hard to picture everything through pictures. (if that made any sence)



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

And so it begins...

I'm partial to either 5 or 6.

I had a feeling it wouldn't sink on its own, to keep it down you may need to work creatively with some rocks. Since a lot of the wood will be covered in plants you can probably get away with keeping a rock sitting on top of the base of each piece. It'll also help if you bury each one an inch or so down in the substrate. The brancy parts of it will make the effect, not so much the bases, so it's OK to have a big rock sitting on each one. Heck, you can even work those rocks into the new 'scape. The important thing right now is to clean that sucker with some bleach solution.

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Back in the saddle!

Right one with #5 I didn't see it that way before but if you turn them so the branches are coming at you that would be cool. At least that's how I see it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Can't say I really like any of the configurations

Not keen on the way they meet like a bridge. I prefer wood to be poking at at angles.

You can use rocks to hold it down or even as support for the wood to lean on to create different angles for the branches.

You really won't get a feel for it until you try playing around with it in the tank. The planting will radically alter the shape of the wood.

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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks guys for trying ,

I can only imagine how hard it must be to judge the layout from pictures only; I don't even know how to position it when I hold it in my hands. Here are some more thoughts, randomly I may add:

- Wings, I can't have the braches coming forward, the wood is too long for this
- Yeah, I can see that I will have to use the rocks to hold it down, another design issue to consider (nice large rocks)
- the smaller element is probably too insignificant to make an impact by itself, that's why I tried to include it in the main group (rather than having it placed in the tank by itself with a gap to the big branch)
- One worry is that any layout which has the branches point straight up will disappear in the vegetation. I think that branch width and direction might be too similar to my plants and the whole thing wouldn't make a statement anymore
- Bensaf is right on with the statement that I will see how it looks once it is in the tank. And exactly that was the reason why I predicted that this will be the biggest overhaul ever, even bigger than the initial setup. I cannot have most plants still rooted and try to adjust the wood so it looks good with them, I think it should be the other way around, the plants should support the wood. As such most of the plants will have to be uprooted before placement can begin

Thanks again,

Ingo

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lovely pieces of wood.

i'd go for setup 5 it looks more like a root system and will look very natural once all the plants are growing around it - look great with 100 little fish swimming around the branches.

i've never seen a piece like that before the closest i came was the one i've got which i more like a stump towards yours.


are you intending to remove most of your plants and then start again after the wood has gone in?

good luck with reaquascapping?

what is it with us hobbists - we design a tank set it up think thats great - few months later we want to change it my girlfriend could never understand that?

where did you get the wood from - i looked through post - just to many pages now.

shekoi

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

shekoi,

Thanks for the input and the compliments on the wood (from hell).

I got it of eBay, I challenged NowherMan6 to find me a nice piece (as they always teased me with my lack of hardscape) and 10 minutes later he linked me up with this one. What can I say, 5 days later and after paying a fortune, I owned that sucker .

Yes, I am afraid I will have to uproot most of my plants when adding the wood. I guess I will have to take a day off from work to do it, my wife will not give me another 12 hour break on a weekend any time soon.

Ingo

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Yes, I am afraid I will have to uproot most of my plants when adding the wood

Is there a doctor in the house?

My Scapes

A doctor ? Why would I need a doctor ?

I am not planning on pulling a muscle when uprooting the plants.

Come to think of it though, I might bang my head against the wall a couple of times in frustration .

Ingo

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Come to think of it though, I might bang my head against the wall a couple of times in frustration

I can't help but feel at least partially responsible for the madness that's about to take place...

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,



Well, don't be surprised if I call you up in case of an emergency during the "change", given that you don't live too far away. And we might even be able to lure tetratech from his island for this operation (if he dares to enter Joisey land) .

No seriously, you did a great job pointing me to this nice piece. Even if all goes wrong, don't feel guilty at all, I am the one who want to put it in.

Ingo

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Oh my...
Those are lovely pieces of wood, and I actually think that layout 2 or 5 would allow you to keep the most jungle-look in the tank.
You are clearly already aware of the HUGE ordeal it's going to be to add the wood and arrange the plants around it, but I thought I would add a few ideas and considerations.

When I tried adding a big piece of wood that wouldn't sink, I really hated the idea of using rocks to keep it down. Now, I was starting from scratch, so I had an easier time of it, but I found that a good unobtrusive way of keeping floating wood down was to tie a long bit of fishing line to a heavy-duty suction cup, and stick the suction cup to the bottom of the tank, then tie the long ends of the fishing line around the wood in the position that I wanted it to be in. Now, since you already have your substrate down, I don't know if this is a feasable solution, but it worked really well for me.

I can't imagine that you do much gravel vacuming with all that plant mass in there, but I noticed that a whole lot of fish waste and uneaten food would collect right under the wood in the crevaces where wood meets gravel, and I think this contributed to some water quality issues with my cories that used that wood to hide under. Just something to bear in mind...

Your plants look so great. I hope you feel it's worth all the work you've been putting into this tank.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

illustrae,

What a nice entry , thank you so much.

As you already stated, it is probably not a good idea to add a suction cup to this tank. I would have to dig through an average substrate height of about 6 inches, and in the process disturb all the Laterite down there. My tank has currently quite a large group of rocks (which one cannot see anymore) and maybe I can use them gracefully to hold the wood down. Right now it is still soaking in the tub and I will keep it in there as long as I can (means until the wife threatens with divorce ).

Good point with the waste that might collect where wood and gravel meet. I will have to keep that in mind. The problem here is that, at least at the current stage of the tank, I wouldn't even be able to see that area as it is planted so tightly.

And I do feel it is worth putting in all this work. Actually, although it is work, I see it as an exciting part of the hobby. I think I like the road to success as least as much as the success itself. And if all goes wrong, what is the worst that can happen? I start all over again and that would be exciting as well.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Actually, although it is work, I see it as an exciting part of the hobby. I think I like the road to success as least as much as the success itself. And if all goes wrong, what is the worst that can happen? I start all over again and that would be exciting as well.

That's the one thing all these logs have in common: We never get to the point where we say, OK, looks good, I'll leave it as it is. There's always a new plant to try, another rock or piece of DW to add, another species of fish to look into. It makes it fun and it's very much part of the hobby. And as you correctly pointed out, what's the worst that can happen if things go wrong? You start all over again relive the fun of setting up.


Well, that and divorce, for the married set...

(Hooray for being 23!)

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Back in the saddle!

Should be on a T-Shirt


"The hubby/wife said he'd/she'd leave me if I set-up one more fish tank in the house...
Boy am I gonna miss him/her!
Yippee more room for more tanks!"

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Good point with the waste that might collect where wood and gravel meet.

Peronally I've never had a problem and I have alot of dw and rock in my tank but then again LF you don't have a grounds crew. "One reaction leads to another"

My Scapes

good luck with the operation - i understand the wife problems - i've already had to get rid of two tanks but least she let me have my new 72gallon shes always moaning when i spend hours on water changes and aquascapping - they just don't understand. you never know she might even help out

what about the fish? are you going to leave them in?

i always worry about my ottos when i reaquascape you never know where they all are.

can't wait see the pictures of you operation!

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

you never know she might even help out

Yeah, I don't think so .

I will have to keep the fish in the tank, I don't have another container or whatever that could hold 100 fishies for hours (and keep them warm). Plus, it would take me about an hour just to catch them all .

The wood is, oh surprise, not sinking yet. The water in the tub was a light brown so quite a few tannis are leaking out. I gave it a scrub last night and refilled the tub with fresh water. I also observed some of the white fluffy stuff that grows on wood when freshly submersed.

The "Operation" will not start for a while, probably at least not until the weekend following the coming weekend. I am too busy at work right now.

In addition, I am considering of trading about 30 Espei at the LFS. I think I have too many now. They don't really school all that much anymore as no matter where they go some others will be there already . Maybe one of you would like to have them, I sell them for cheap (compared to the $4 they cost at my LFS), but no shipping, pickup only.

Ingo

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just writing a nice little reply and the computer crashes

can't remember what i was writing now.

What you going to exchange you fish for? or do you get credit of some sorts - at my LFS i get half the sale price of the fish - so in your case get about $60 not bad

i'm getting used to my camara now - hopfully i can train my fish to stand still long enough to get a good photo like yours.
i've posted some on my log
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/12949.4.htm?83#

Have any idea what the snail is? i've had him for years must have come in on a plants.

do you have any problems with snails in the 125G? i try and check all the plants no - but it is hard to do.

just remebered what i was writing not even that informative - when i was soaking my roots i noticed that there were slight little cracks and holes which were filled with air - so by moving the pieces around releasing the air - helpped it sink quicker.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

When you are rinsing and such are you using hot water? This will help the wood open up and trap in water.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Getting it to stay completely down with no help could take weeks, even months. A rock is the best bet at this point, and can be worked into the aquascape as well. Win-win situation.

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks guys,

Yeah, I am refilling the tub with rather hot water in the hope that it will open the pores (just like people's skin).

NowherMan6 - it takes quite a big rock to keep the main piece from floating. Currently I use 2 to hold it down in the tub.

Shekoi - Yeah, I have snails in my 125G, none of which has been added intentionally. There are ramshorn, trumpet, and pond snails. When I do my weekly water change I pick them up when I get the chance, otherwise I leave them alone. I don't think there are too many yet. I think I would like to exchange the 30 Espei for some more Rainbows . It is nice that you get half the selling price, my main LFS is a little cheaper, they sell them for $4 and indicated (and not even that is for sure) that they would give me $1 for each. I might have to inquire at other LFSs and see what they would give me.

Ingo

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Ingo, at least you're getting something for your fish. None of the three LFS that I frequently visit give me anything for fish that I bring them. Last week I had to do a lot of fast talking for them to accept the three angels that I brought them. Getting 1$ a piece is pretty nice IMO.

Your wood will take a long time before it'll sink. Warm water won't make much of a difference I'm afraid, wood pores don't really work that way, they're fixed structures. The best way to do it fast would be to boil the wood. By boiling you make the air expand so much that it will force itself out of the wood, allowing water to enter and occupy those pockets. However, with a piece the size of what you're having there it may be rather difficult to find a big enough pan

Thanks Dr. for the input,

Yeah, I sure would need some big kettle to boil that sucker .

But seriously, I actually heard that boiling wood is not a good idea. Supposedly it destroys the cell structure of the wood and the consequence would be a much faster disintegration in the tank.

Ingo

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I suppose boiling wood can do a little bit of damage, but it won't be terribly much. We're talking about dead lignified cells that basically just consist of cell wall material, which is mostly cellulose and lignin. These polymers are very resistant to heat. I've always boiled pieces of bogwood that I've had in my tanks. Some of those I inherited from my grandfather, who had them in his tank for many years, and he had boiled them as well. I've never had a piece fall apart on me or rot. If it indeed does increase the speed of breakdown, then we're still talking about decades I think, longer than any setup of a tank will ever exist.

LF,

If worse comes to worse I have something we can boil it in. You just have to take a trip to MI to do it. By the time you get back home it will be full of air again for sure!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

Sounds like a plan

Let's try to make this the most expensive piece of driftwood (in $ per pound) ever to be added to a tank. Purchase cost plus a vacation in MI .

I haven't had too much time to check on the wood for 2 days now and when I looked at it last night I saw the the discoloration of the water is rather minimal. That gives me some hope that it has been in the water for a while in its past.

Ingo

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LF,

Umm yeah... just let me know and I will get the giant pot ready with some fire wood!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well, without many words,

I did it, for better or worse.

It took 7 hours , quite a few water changes, lots of fiddling with plants, and what not.

QUESTION: I have Narrow leaf Ludwigia, lots of dwarf sags / chain swords, more crypt retrospiralis, Xmas moss, red rubin sword, and a red melon sword still in the water buckets. SHOULD I ADD ANY OF THESE, AND WHERE? I will dispose of the around 10AM tomorrow morning, my time (US East).

Here are 8 pictures, not many words though, I will write more tomorrow. No1, tank before change:

Attached Image:

Before

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No2, Quite a few plants have been removed, the water quality is going downhill:

Attached Image:

First Round of Plant Removal

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No3, A lot of plants gone by now, I am worried how the fish will handle this soup:

Attached Image:

More Plants Gone

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No4, Only the Apons and Cyperus are left, a few vacuuming sessions later.

Attached Image:

Little Left

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No5, The wood has been added, took quite a while and many curses until it was in place:

Attached Image:

Introducing the Wood

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No6, Partial water change to up the water quality, filter was also rinsed (not too much though, bacteria - I know). The Apon had to go to, didn't like it anymore:

Attached Image:

Water Change

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No7, Tank is refilled, more rocks are added. Do you see all the Espei :

Attached Image:

Hardware in Place

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No8, and last for now. The tank is fully planted, except if you have some info and then I could add it tomorrow. I am intending to try my luck with hair grass in the front again, but I will have to get it first. I will go to sleep now, let me know what you think (even if you don't like it )

Ingo

Attached Image:

All Done

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