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To be honest having tried all sorts of bulbs (At the moment I have a strange mixture of 10,000K, 12,000k and 4,700k) I've never seen anything to suggest that plants prefer one spectrum over the other and certainly nothing to suggest one spectrum promotes algae more then another.

Where the more reddish spectrums do have a problem is penetrating the water, the vast majority of the light is dissapated before it gets down to the bottom. This may cause issues where the lower tiers of plants are not getting enough light and don't grow as well as they could.

This may cause issues but it's an indirect impact rather then a direct "5000k is no good for plants" or "5000k promotes algae" thing.

I'd certainly change it around and have the 6700k on most of the time. If nothing else the tank will look better to the eye.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I'd certainly change it around and have the 6700k on most of the time

That is what I did this weekend. Actually, I literally had to switch the bulbs in the unit as one row is connected to the fan (the one that comes on midday when all lights are on) and simply switching powercords in sockets would have meant that the fan would have been on all day. That, in turn, is noisy, a waste of energy, and burns out the fans faster.

I hear you Bensaf on the K not directly causing the algae, but I also read the indirect effects it can have. This makes sense to me and I can assume that the earlier constellation of my lights caused more bottom plant rotting and as such more algae. I guess the switch should help then.

On a different topic: I had to put down the other female rainbow in the QT last night, she was not eating anymore and constantly on the surface . That means that the only fish I lost so far in the big tank (don't count initial loss of Otos) are all 3 female rainbows. Coincidence?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
Interesting...
Actually, I would recommend that you run the fan all the
time a bulb is burning. In other words, the exact opposite
of the way you have yours set up. Compact Flourscent
bulbs burn hot. The heat in combination with the humidity
can cause the electrical insulation to become brittle and
crack. Additionally, the heat can affect the clear plastic
pannel that slides between the bulb and the tank (splash
guard).
In my fish room, I run three computers and two transmitters
all with fans, 24/7/365, so I don't even notice the
fan noises.

I suggest that you might want to reverse your thinking on
the light/fan.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank,

Good thinking, but no .

The fixture is designed to have the fans on only when all 4 lights (96w each) are turned on. Heat emission is not an issue with 2 lights only (remember, they form a line and are not paralell to each other) and the smaller units (any single strip PC from Coralife) don't even come with fans.

In addition, the unit is elevated on legs so enough air circulation is present around the lights. And on top of it all, the tank is in the basement that is rather cool, even during hot summer months.

I a room where the Eheim filters hum so quietly that I have to get real close to check if they still work, the sound of two fans is really obvious. Right now, I can hear the bubbles emitting from the diffuser, that is pleasant, in particular if just one floor up the monsters (aka kids) are on the lose.

Silence and tranquility, nothing goes better with fish

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I suggest that you might want to reverse your thinking on the light/fan

Interesting, I do currently have my fan on all day, only because it's linked to the front bulb of my fixture and I want the bowfront to get the most light possible. I also have a coralife dual cf and it only comes with one fan. I used to have a Current USA fixture that was also dual cf and it actually came with 2 separate fans on their own powercords and it was a real pain to plug in 4 separate fixtures. The coralife fixtures do run surprisingly cool and even with my fixture sitting only an inch or so above the glass top there are no issues. The Current USA fixtures used to run extremely hot even with the two noisy fans running. I have a very low opinion of their products and they can't hold a candle to Coralife.

My Scapes

Oh, speaking of brands and the quality of their products:

Nice story, I ordered 3 200W Stealth heaters a little while ago, one for the 40, and one each for the 125 and 29. Before that, I already purchased 2 of them. Overall, I opened 4 packages so far (the fifth is still in the box) and 2 of them had pieces missing (suction cups and holders for them).

So, on Sunday I e-mailed the maker of the heaters stating that issue and on Monday morning I had a reply asking me for my address and that they are going to send out these pieces asap.

Very nice,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice story, I ordered 3 200W Stealth heaters a little while ago, one for the 40, and one each for the 125 and 29. Before that, I already purchased 2 of them. Overall, I opened 4 packages so far (the fifth is still in the box) and 2 of them had pieces missing (suction cups and holders for them).

That's Marineland right? That could also be a distributor issue also? If the boxes don't have a wrapping on them those little parts end up falling out alot.

My Scapes

No tetratech, that's Aquarium Systems. And the heaters are sealed in a plastic container too strong to be opened with the teeth.

I also told them that, in particular because of the solid packaging that had not been tempered with, I decided not to e-mail the distributer (reseller) but them directly.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh O.K. I thought it was one of those unwrapped boxes with the stuff just thrown inside.

Anyway talk about quality control. I bought a pair of Nike Shox. Actually my wife did because I tore a ligament in my knee and she thought the extra cushion would help. So I'm walking around, just walking and "boom" I go down, one of the shox fell off. So here I am wearing these sneakers to help me and they hurt me. I returned them for another pair and a week later "boom" a shox falls off the second pair. Serious manufacturer defect, so I go back again and the retail store wouldn't take them back because I didn't have my receipt this time.

I don't tink so Let's just say the store was unable to ring up any more merchandise until they reconsidered and gave me credit.

My Scapes

So taking care of the customers: At my store the bosses wont carry a product if the the owners of that product wont back the store on issues with it. If the store doesn't get backed then it is hard to help the customers.

Lighting: On my tank I have a mix of fast and slow growers. Much more fast than slow growers. I don't really know what I want to do with the tank yet but I am thinking of putting all the slow growers tucked up clow the fast growers. Hoping that this will kill off any of the spot algea I have been gettng on them.

Rainbows: Are these guys touchy with Ph swings? I have been losing them in my tank really slowly with no signs. In my tank right now the Ph is about 7.2 in the AM before the lights/CO2 come on, about 6.8 at night right before the lights/CO2 go off. Normal Ph for here is about 8.2 or 8.4. Might this be the cause for loss?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech - I can only imagine how you were holding the store hostage

wings - I don't think a ph swing of 0.4 would cause too many fish to die. I recently was at my most trusted LFS and mentioned the loss of all of my females. The guy in charge of ordering said that he loses quite a few of them during shipment. Maybe they are not all that hardy, but he has no explanation on why I may have lost only females. Also, if I remember that right, then females also have a deeper body when they mature. Mine never did and they were rather streamlined. Just maybe I didn't even have female rainbows.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

tetratech - I can only imagine how you were holding the store hostage
Yeah I guess I was kinda holding the store hostage or more like "a fly in the ointment" I was really pissed.

Anyway should I be worried about my Bosemani. How long did you guys have them before seeing problems?

My Scapes

I have my rainbows since at least 3 to 4 months, I can check for you.

I don't think you should be worried though as all males are doing just great.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Anyway should I be worried about my Bosemani.

I have had two male bosemani's in another tank for about 3 years now with no problems what so ever. Its the dwarf blue neon rainbows that are dropping dead on me. Don't seem to be having too many problems with that at work though. Don't see them coming in dead or anything like that or dropping like flys once we get them. That's probaby why ours are 2.99 a pop and yours are... well a lot more.

How much swing are your tanks running?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Currently, juvenile Dwarf Neons are $20 at my LFS.

My swing is probably from 7 just before lights on down to 6.5 before lights out. All normal, as in nature swings occur as well, but actually I believe they occur the other way around.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think I paid $12.99 a piece for my Bosemani, 2 for $25.

BTW - My ph is around 6.0 at nite with a kh of 2 or 3. I'll have to test tomorrow morning to find swing.



My Scapes

Tetra,
You are about the same as me for the Bosemani but I should probably start shipping dwarf blues to LF. It would probably be cheaper even with shipping.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

It probably would, Wings, I will have to think about that.

Do you folks have females in the store? If so, how do they look different from the males? I would need about 9 females

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

I have to talk ferts again, sorry about that

While suggesting to someone else here to read up on EI and stuff, I saw that he has an EI "light" for the less techical aspects of the Estimative index article on his site. Curious as I am (), I looked into it and found some estimates for dosing a tank of my size. I then compared it to what I am dosing and find that I am rather way off in certain areas (my values in brackets):

100 - 125 Gallon Aquarium
+/- 1 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week (yup - right on)
+/- 1/2 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (1/8 - way off)
+/- 1/2 tsp K2S04 3x a week (not at all - way off)
+/- 1/2 tsp (30ml) Trace 3x a week (60ml TMG - double)
50% weekly water change (yup)

What do you think?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have to talk ferts again, sorry about that

You should be!

To what end. To make your algae go bye-bye or to make the plants grow better? If the plants are growing well which I think they are, why do you keep turning to the ferts as the problem. I've changed so many differenct dosing schemes in my tank. Added fe, double my micro dosing, moved up my no3, moved down my no3 not for algae but to see if I could get more red, etc and it didn't affect algae one bit.




My Scapes

You should be!

- Ok, I am

I don't know for what specific purpose I brought that up, it was just a general observation on how far off I am from the "default" EI values. For example the fact that I dose 1/4 of the P that is set here.

In general, this makes me wonder if what I am doing dosing wise with my tank can actually still be considered "following EI". Or, is EI layed out so broadly that it's only commonality is to have ferts (of all kinds) available to the tank at any point, and as such they are overfed to avoid a short-coming?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

40-60 Gallon Aquariums (figured this was better than the 20-40 gallon)
+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week (yup)
+/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (yup)
+/- 1/8 tsp K2S04 3x a week (1/2 tsp, ouch)
+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week (umm I have been giving them two 2L caps of flourish, whatever that is.
50% weekly water change (Yup)

Plants grow (yup)
Algea (just a little green spot but I think thats cuz my low light plants are not shaded enough)

Edit: I vote for the lader.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Or, is EI layed out so broadly that it's only commonality is to have ferts (of all kinds) available to the tank at any point, and as such they are overfed to avoid a short-coming?

Yeah, kinda of? LF every plant needs it's ferts, light, carbon, but every tank is somwhat different and how it will react to the available light, shade, fish load, plant mass, types of plants. There are too many variables. You need to find the thing that works for your tank. If the plants are growing well forget the ferts that's for fine-tuning. You must look at light,waste,load to balance tank my young grasshopper.

And after Germany wins in the 90th minute!




My Scapes

And after Germany wins in the 90th minute!

At least we win

Yeah, but there is a difference between fine tuning and using 4 times the amount of KH2P04 and 1/2tsp of K2S04 or none at all .

How do I know how well my growth could be if I had other fert dosages?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Best thing to do is to set it and don't mess with it for months. If you want to change something do it little by little and then run that for a while.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Do you folks have females in the store? If so, how do they look different from the males? I would need about 9 females

Females? Less color on body and fins, and a little fater than the more colorful males? Yeah we have a handful of them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

and a little fater than the more colorful males

Fatter? How about depth? Is the female's body as deep as the male's? I perused the web for female Dwarf Neon Rainbows and while most pictures seem to show males, the few that I found that are titled female seem to show the shape of a male with a different fin coloration.

Now, here is once again a shot of 2 of my rainbows, one male and the other supposedly female. Wings, is that how your females look like?

Ingo

EDIT: While the males over the last few months went from the pictured shape to the deeper bodied adult form, the females never changed their shape.

Attached Image:

Female and Male???

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Yup you have it right. Female on the left, male on the right. Females tend to be a little thicker from left to right or right to left also. Biggest differences are fin color and body height.

I am not sure on a complete count from work but we have a good handful of them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

From the pictures on page 91(we going to hit 100 soon?) the tank seems to still be doing nicely. I agree with the statement on EI, that it mostly doesn't matter as long as things are balanced and the plants are getting plenty of ferts. I used up all of my hour( community internet ) just reading the last couple pages in this thread, so the response is short, .

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks for the input Wings and Matty

Matty - While the tank is still doing nicely, it is not doing great. I would like to see some changes soon as by now there is very little design left and lots of sucking up ferts going on.

Which brings me to:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 38

Very little to nothing has happened with this tank during this week. It seems that I see a slow come-back of the BBA now that I stopped the Excel treatment for 2 weeks, I believe.

When I look at this tank these days I am getting very restless. I am aware that I have too many fish in there and also that the scape is nowhere near of what I thought the tank should look like. All is pointing towards a major overhaul yet again, but we all know what that did the last time around. Definately the large wood will have to change, in particular the big stomp part of it has to go and most likely the overall position had to be moved further off center.

Otherwise, growth is just fine, this weekend I had to thin out the Hygro group quite a bit as it got too tall and shaded the right tank side way too much. While trimming I also removed some other plants by accident and had to replant them as well.

Here is the tank last weekend, for comparison purposes:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend, Week 37

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here it is now. Also, two stems of the Alternanthera had to be trimmed (bottoms disposed) as they reached the surface. While it doesn't look bad now, it doesn't look good either

Attached Image:

Week 38, This Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am also wondering which plants from this tank will go into the new 40G. There is for sure the Blixa and most likely the 5 Anubias Nana Petites that I have, and also maybe the Java Fern (Narrow Leaf) that is pictured here. I hope this plant will not break when I will try to remove it from its lodged position between the wood and the rock behind it. One thing is for sure, it has grown nicely from these 5 little leaves that it originally was.

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On to a few fish pictures. First off - a rainbow. Although it is not that obvious when you look at these fish in the tank directly, the pictures alway make it clear that they truely have puppy eyes that always seem to focus on the camera (counts for tetratech's rainbows as well).

Attached Image:

Male Rainbow

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I spent about half an hour after this weekends water change searching for my female Apisto. I am always worried that the small fish I have somehow get lost or that I cut them in half when I trim the plants. Fortunately, I eventually found her. She has one of these "mostly hiding" phases that may be breeding related.

Anyway, here is a nice sequence on how male and female communicate these days. This shot shows the moment after the female reaches the back of the male during an encounter. I immediately spreads his fins and shows off all his beauty, but given that the black bar under his eye is not showing I assume it is meant to be a friendly encounter.

Attached Image:

Apistos I

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Can you see how his eye seems to be fixed on her?

Next, as he lets his finnage down a little, the female starts to show off, here is is just about to spread them.

Attached Image:

Apistos II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And lastly, he follows her signs and spreads his fins again. Then, he dissapears into the plants, but she is not following him. Instead, she has her own area, somewhere in the Anubias realm, where she seems to hang out.

What does that mean? - I have no idea,

Attached Image:

Apistos III

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least,

In case you wonder (), as I mentioned before, I always have an Anubias (Nana and/or Barteri) in bloom, but most of the time the flowers are not standing out before a dark background and as such don't make for a nice picture. This weekend, I trimmed of 3 flower stems that were pretty much done, I have another one on its way out, one that is coming in, and this one here.

Have fun, as usual input is appreciated,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Anubias Flower

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Everything looking beautiful as usual. But don't those apisto fins look especially fine when spread. Very nice

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn,

Yeah, the spread finnage is really beautiful, I agree. He does the same thing when he is telling other fish to stay away from him, except he has a black bar below his eye (running through the eye downwards) in that case. He can turn that bar off and on within seconds (or a second).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Quick comments, becuase it's Father's Day, but if the plants are growing well then forget the ferts, EI is working. I read thread and thread again on APC and other forums where people are running alot of light on big tanks and they can't contain algae growth. 380-400 watts is alot of light and it gives you no room for error. Error is fish load, fish waste, feeding, inadequate biofilter, inadequate plant mass, not enough water changes. Even if you running all the lights for only a few hours a day it will grow algae.

It's really not that complicated once you see the bigger picture.

My Scapes

It's really not that complicated once you see the bigger picture.

Tetra,
I guess you are saying that LF doesn't get it yet?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I don't get it



Sure do I hear you tetratech, but I am not going to flush 50 Espei down the drain

Actually, I wasn't complaining about the algae during this posting session, I was complaining about the design of things

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh I know you get it LF and of course my comments are just that my comments. I was about to respond to Wings by saying when you have a big tank setup it's hard to make big changes to correct a problem.

Right now I have a pretty heavy load in my tank so I'm not exactly practicing what I'm preaching, but there is a difference in how I got to my heavy stocking levels and how you got to yours. I think my stocking levels came at a much slower pace than yours did. I slowly added cardinals 5 at a time, then after months I added the two rainbows and finally the two small rams. As you know tanks always do better with slow gradual changes. That's how nature works it's magic!





My Scapes

I didn't quite add 100 fish at a time either. When you look at the fish that I added then you would end up with:

- 12 espei
- 3 rainbows
- 2 pearls
- 6 otos
- 2 apistos

And that is it

Not all that much, given about 7 months until all these had been added. If it wouldn't be for the 100 babies then I would be in good shape

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

If it wouldn't be for the 100 babies then I would be in good shape

100 baby espei
1400 poops between water changes (200 poops per day x 7)
390 watts of cf lighting

= PROTIST ORGY

My Scapes

Hi,
I was reading Wings' fert listing, and for my 30G tank
I decided to knock down the amounts a tad to use say,
a 1/4 tsp vs the half, etc. Right now, I still have
the cyanobacteria, but, I also now have very fine hair
algae growing at the upper levels with the strands
"flowing" in the currents.. Actually looks nice, but will
soon turn into a problem.

Have any of you guys actually tested your water just
before your water changes to see what kind of nitrate
and phosphate readings you have after adding this stuff
three times a week?
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

PROTIST ORGY

Geeeez, a guy goes on vacation for a week and his favorite plant/ fish site turns X rated!

Nice pics as usual, LF. Your algae problem seems to be much more under control now

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Back in the saddle!

Have any of you guys actually tested your water just
before your water changes to see what kind of nitrate
and phosphate readings you have after adding this stuff
three times a week?
Frank

Frank,
Sounds like your "Micromanaging your macros"
LF's plants are growing quite well. I could tell you I fool around with my po4 and no3 dosing all the time for color and growth reasons and it doesn't bring out algae one bit and I've had po4 levels over 5.0ppm (according to the test kits anyway) LF's algae issue is LAW (Light and Waste).

My Scapes

LF's algae issue is LAW

I like that, sounds somehow good. As in:

"I had no other choice, it's the LAW!"

Thanks NowherMan6 I missed you. Yeah, it is pretty stable now with the same amount of algae, that's why I consider messing with the design again (slapping myself so you guys don't have to).

Frank - 30G, that is net about maybe 25G. I have 5 times the volume and feed 1.5tps 3x per week, and at the end of the week I probably have around 20 to 40 ppm, and maybe 5 ppm of P. But I haven't measured in ages.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Frank,
Last time I checked my Nitrate before the water change I had about 20ppm. I figure thats pretty good up take when I have added in about 33ppm + fish load and over extra food. I will do some testing and get back to you say.... in a week. One big factor I am looking at with this is plant mass ( with fast and slow growers) pluse lighting. I have a ton of fast growers and very few slow growers in my tank. With that I am running 3.25 WPG for about 12 hours/day. This is a little more that most are doing for lighting so you just kind of estimate and see what happens.

Do I get it tetra?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Gang,

Still having a broken router in the house, and as such no internet access, I was having a little too much time on my hand last evening and decided to add the Rainbows from the QT into the main tank. For the ones that don't know it, and the ones that may not remember, I had 3 Neon Dwarf Rainbows each in this tank and the QT.

So, here is a little picture story:

Moving Rainbows in 9 Acts

Act 1: The Bag

The rainbows were not the hardest to catch in the QT (compared to Espei it was easy). Here they are in the bag:

Attached Image:

In the Bag

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 2: The Release

After about 1.5 hours of acclimatization, the rainbows were releases into the tank. They instantly went into semi-hiding at the Pearl Grass all the way to the right of the tank, just below the bag they had been in. This shot was taken about 20 seconds after the last rainbow left the bag:

Attached Image:

Rainbows in Pearl Grass

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 3: Starting to Move

2 minutes later the whole group moved out of the Pearl Grass and into the open area to the left of it. They held this position for about 2 more minutes, always in close proximity to each other. The 3 rainbows that are already in the tank did not come anywhere near.

Attached Image:

Moving Out

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 4: First Encounter

The first fish to confront the new additions was the male Apisto. As you can see, he was not too thrilled about the rainbows (black bar under the eye is visible, unlike his showing off in recent pictures towards his girl). With him coming from the right there was no other way for the rainbows then to swim all the way to the left of the tank.

Attached Image:

Apisto Displaying

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 5: Making Friends

With the Apisto still on their tails, the first meeting of new and a resident rainbow took place. So far, 5 minutes have passed since the rainbows were added. BTW, during all that time (and counting for the next pictures as well, Espei and Pearls ignore the rainbows and are ignored by them).

Attached Image:

First Friend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 6: First Formation

Finally, about 7 minutes after addition, the rainbows found each other and formed a school for the first time (to the backdrop of a 50 Espei school). This was most likely due to the fact that the Apstio was as agressive as I have never seen him before.

Attached Image:

The School Comes Together

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 7: Playing in Formation

For the next 2 minutes, rainbows played with the formation, individuals breaking away and coming back, changing positions, and what not. This may be truly the beginning of 2 groups coming together and starting to evaluate the new ranking order.

Attached Image:

Play in the Formation

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 8: Intruder Alert

All internal group activity was halted for a while as the Apistos were not yet done with explaining who rules this tank. As you can see, the female comes at them from the front and the male from the back, putting them in a position where a confrontation is unavoidable. And so it happened, the male Apisto made physical contact, nipped at the tail fin of one rainbow and attacked another from the side. I hope that will stop soon. I will be able to validate any damage tonight.

Attached Image:

Apistos on the Attack

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 9: The Finale

Whenever the Apistos gave them a break, the rainbows went back into formation. At the time of this picture I felt that the acclimatization was completed as the internal rank fights started. The individual leaders of the two groups were the first to have show-off fights, establishing who is going to be the boss of the new bigger group. I am most certain that quite a few of these fights will still come within the next few days until all is straightened out.

The End

Attached Image:

Internal Ranking Games

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice pics LF. I really like the one (2nd from bottom) where the two apistos are on either end.

You know when I first started doing my 72g I swore I would make it an S.A. Biotope, but obviously that didn't happen since I have fish and plants from S. America and Asia.

My Bolivans and now the Rams pay no attention to my two rainbows. The only aggression I see is the rainbows chasing some of the tetras mostly after lights out.

My Scapes

Beautiful pictures of beautiful fish. I have serious camera envy & wish I could take pics like these.

Cheers
TW

TW,
Feel your pain with the camera issue. But some day soon things might change.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hey, no envy or jealousy please,

Or I send you some of my algae issues

Thank you very much for the comments on the pictures. I actually was hoping you would find the story (aka observation) at least to some degree interesting as well

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Of course the story was interesting & I hope the apisto decides to live & let live in peace. However, your pics can't help to tell the story, especially the one with both male & female apisto both facing off the rainbow shoal.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I know, the words were only to carify the pictures, in case they didn't make any sense by themselves

Last night there was still the occasional stand-off with fins spread out by the male Apisto, but I have not seen any further physical contact between them. Also, everybody seems to still have all their eyes, a good thing. So I guess that means all is good.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 39

Not much new to report on the tank for this week, I guess things are getting boring now. The only change was the addition of the 3 male Dwarf Neon Rainbows from the QT (yes, I know, even more fish in the tank), all of which are doing well.

There was no major trimming required and all I did was to prune off some of the leaves that had some algae on them (BBA is coming back slowly).

Here is the tank during the last two weeks, followed by a few fish shots and a hint on something (more later).

That was the tank after the last major trim 2 weeks ago

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One week later, the Star Grass had grown a little and the Hygro group saw some more trimming as additional stems were removed so that they could help filling up the 40G.

Attached Image:

One Week Ago

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The only trimming done this weekend that was not algae related concerned the Wisteria. A few stems had to be cut because they were growing into the plants near by. These trimmings currently float in the 20G QT as the 40G seems to have enough plants in it.

Here is the tank now:

Attached Image:

Tank After Water Change This Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a shot of the Espei about 1 minute after the lights in the tank went on. Like almost all fish, they are pretty pale and it takes about 15 min before their bright orange returns. I find fish coloration an amazing thing, in particular when they can change colors at will (like the bar under the eye of the male Apisto):

Attached Image:

Espei in the Morning

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Speaking of the Apisto, here is a shot of the male, just for the fun of it and because Robyn just recently got her Apistos (although they are a different species, but never the less somewhat related). He is, BTW, no longer chasing after the Rainbows, I assume they know by now that he is their boss. The only fish in the tank that doesn't think so is the male Pearl, he is completely unphased by the Apisto's prouncing.

Attached Image:

Male Apisto

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And speaking of the male Pearl, here is a group shot of male (on the left) and female Pearls, a rainbow peeking in, and the female Apisto telling all of them to leave her alone.

The male Pearl spends a good part of the day chasing the female Pearl through the tank. I doesn't look like he follows her, it's more like he want's her to go away. Nevertheless, she is always coming back to him. Love? I don't know.

Attached Image:

Group Shot

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the tip (or whatever I wrote on the last page) that I was speaking about. Being the lazy bum that I am, I find the routine of cleaning the glass diffuser rather involved. Bathing the whole thing in a bleach solution, then rinsing it in a Prime solution, and then adding it back into the tank takes time and is to some degree a waste producer (bleach and conditioner down the drain).

Almost by chance, I tried the following:

Having my diffuser rather high up in the tank exposes the top part during water changes for about 15 to 30 min (I will have to time it some day). As soon as the top is in the open I swipe the water off it and drip Flourish Excel on it until it is covered (the area above the plate). And that is it - and what can I say, I haven't bleached the sucker in about 4 t 5 weeks now and it is still clean. You can see the difference from before adding Excel to 20 min later.

Maybe you want to give this method a try, it is better for the environment and seems to work well. I have not done it long enough to conclude that one never has to bleach again.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Diffuser - New Cleaning Method

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm lazy too, so I'll try your tip at next waterchange.

Cheers
TW

Good idea Robyn,

Let us know how (and if) it worked for you. Try to make sure that you remove as much tank water from the area above the plate as possible, then fill that area (should not be more than about 3ml)with Excel, and let it sit for a while (15 min should do). The advantage on my big tank that it takes at least that long from exposure to refill as so many gallons have to go out and back in.

You could also try to lift your diffuser a little higher for the procedure (to give the Excel more time to do its work without prolonging the water change itself), a complete removal should not be required.

Again, keep us posted,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I still think you guys should get an external reactor and forget about cleaning alltogether.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi Matt,
I'm inclined to agree with you, especially when I purchased
a difuser for my 30G tank and the thing flopped. It was
rated for the 20G tank. It came with a suction cup
but the "glass bud" on the side of the difuser won't
slip on and hold the difuser in place. So I tried to
bury the delivery tube in gravel and prop the
difuser upright with a rock, but the tube kept working
up through the gravel. And the bubbles never did change
from one or two big bubbles into the bunches of micro
bubbles. The difuser is sitting in the box it came in.

I have thrown my internal reactor away. It demanded
even more cleaning than the difuser because it was inside
the tank (an eyesore that took up space) and was exposed
to the tank light, it would clog up with algae. To clean
the passages, I needed pipe cleaners, running water, and
lots of patience.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

hey!! i just happened to click on this 95th page and saw some pics a few posts ago of your tank. it looks really nice. i really like the yellowish fish with the black dorsal fin that is under your pearl gouramis. since i am not inclined to read 95 pages of posts (LOL), is there any way you can tell me what species that is, because I really like it. is it a dwarf cockatoo cichlid?

~*~ Caviar? no thanks! ~*~

Here we go,

I am writing about this great method that I figured out on how to clean a diffuser environment friendly, and what do Matty and Frank do? - Tell me I should not use one

Well, I happen to be pretty happy with mine (in 2 tanks), they are cheap, easy to clean (with Excel ), and look pretty fashionable.

Anyway, thanks for the input to both of you, Matty - I know that you have this cool self-made inline reactor, but I have enough stuff behind the tank and I like the sound of a diffuser.

Little Caesar - Close on the guess of the fish. It is a female Apistogramma viejita II. She is a beauty, isn't she?

On a different note: Would you folks be so kind and look at my 20G Log in the Aquascaping Forum? I have something new there On Page 5. Also, I would appreciate if a Moderator or Administrator who may read this would be so nice and move that log (and please the 29G log at the same location) to this forum. I would really like to have all my logs over here in the Planted Forum, that is more where they belong to. Thanks in advance, to the mods for moving the stuff and anybody else who may add a comment to it.

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Anyway, thanks for the input to both of you, Matty - I know that you have this cool self-made inline reactor, but I have enough stuff behind the tank and I like the sound of a diffuser.

Ah LF, I know by now that you have settled on your method of choice, I just like to give you a hard time about it any chance I get. I'm glad you found an easier way of cleaning it, sounds like it makes them easier to use.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi LF,
Your wish is my command... Your thread is moved.

I don't recall saying anything about not using the
difuser. I know you, Ben, and others, swear by them.
I cuss at mine. As you read, its never worked right,
won't stick to the side of the tank, and is residing
in a box in the garage. Too bad to, it was an
expensive little critter.

My reactor did not work out very well either. After
several years, I tired of cleaning it constantly. It
was very labor intensive. So I took a page from your
book and a couple of others and ran the CO2 output from
the bubble counter to the air intake port on my UGF power
head, stuck a deflector on the output of the power head
so the flow is directed downward into the tank and sat
back. The water flow breaks the bubbles into very tiny
ones (like the difuser should have) and the current is
strong enough that most of the bubbles don't reach the
surface. Nothing to clean, and it seems to be working
just fine.

I'm sorry you thought I was being critical or suggesting
that you stop using the difuser.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank and Matty

Frank, no need to be sorry. As you can see, I have enough laughing smileys after the sentence where I was ranting about your response. It was a joke on my end (I think Matty got it ). And I knew Matty was just pulling my strings

Sorry to hear that your diffuser did not work as expected and has been expensive on top of it. Just like me, you nevertheless found a way that makes you happy, and that is what it is all about

And triple-thanks for moving my 20G log to this forum, it brings the family of my tanks closer together.

Now, the only one left outside this realm is my 29G log, but I am sure we can manage to get this one into the Planted Forum as well.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

(I think Matty got it )

Got it - I just wanted to congratulate you on your method of cleaning after giving a sarcastic remark.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

sweet. thanks. yeah, she is really nice.

~*~ Caviar? no thanks! ~*~

Glad I could help, Little Caesar

Tank wise, there is pretty much nothing to report, except maybe the fact that now, having stopped the Excel treatment for over 3 weeks, the BBA is certainly on its way back in, darn.

I know, I know, it has to do with my light, fishload, and whatnot, but I thought I just mention it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Is the BBA limited to hardscape or is it growing on the plants as well?

My Scapes

Tetratech,

The BBA is growing exclusively on the plants and mybe some parts of the wood. Mostly it occupies the egdes of my low growers, like some anubias, the java fern, and the isoetes.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 40

The tank hasn't received much attention this week, partially because I was busy with work and partially because I am getting tired of the current setup. I am mostly spending my time with algae control and housing fast growers rather than having a scape that I could enjoy and shape.

Here is the tank after the last main trimming, 3 weeks ago:

Attached Image:

Tank 3 Weeks Ago

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I sure cannot complain about the speed with which my fast growers grow. But it seems like there is only one particular rythm to this tank - Fast growers up, trim, and so forth.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Tank 1 Week Ago

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is the tank now as it was yesterday before the trim. The Star Grass is all the way up and this actually creates a problem. The lower parts are soooo shaded that they have no light what so ever and rott/melt away. I am sure that this cannot be good for the water quality and may directly relate to algae problems.

Attached Image:

Before Trimming this Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then I trimmed away. I made one change though compared to earlier trimmings, I reduced the size of the Star Grass group and gave some of it to the Hygro group. This way I hope to reduce the amount of foul leaves over the growth period until the Star Grass is all tall again.

I may even remove the Star Grass all together or use it differently somewhere else in the tank.

Attached Image:

Tank Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On to some plant and fish detail shots.

Here is the Blyxa, or at least one of them. The plants haven't been floating up anymore, but they don't grow fast either. Instead, they are pretty much collecting quite a bit of gunk in them, which I can see when I hold the vacuum right over them. And, just like tetratech's they are all green now.

Attached Image:

Blyxa

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All still looks really nice in there though Ingo, but I guess I know what you mean, with my mainly wisteria tank being all about fast growers, trimming, but no great variety.

But for all that, I'd still be very proud to have a tank that looked like yours. You still have variety & little splashes or red & other colours here & there. Very nice.

Cheers
TW

Here is a close-up of my Isoetes Lacustris. What appears to be nice air bubbles (from the water change) being produced by the plant are actually bubbles that are attached to the BBA that is yet again covering it. This simple plant is the worst infested one in the whole tank.

Attached Image:

Isoetes and BBA

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

THANKS ROBYN

On to the fish, for Robyn, here is a close-up of the female (non-agressive) female. Half the time she is hiding somewhere in the thickets, but it is not because she is chased by the male. I simply think she likes it in there and that there are some nice snacks available.

Attached Image:

Female Apisto

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

He, on the other hand, is mostly at home in the front of the tank, patrolling the substrate to see if any new goodies are avaiable, stalking them, and then go in for the kill.

Both are totally non agressive fish, neither to each other nor to anybody else in the tank.

Attached Image:

Male Apisto

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a nice shot (I think) of the male Pearl catching some air. The bubbles that you see around him are from the CO2 diffusion system that I have in place, a diffuser who's output is sucked into a small powerhead and redirected and even further cut up by it.

Attached Image:

Male Pearl

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Rainbow group has found together for most of the time now, except for one of the 6 who prefers to be by himself for about half the day. I believe to identify him as a former leader who has lost his position to the leader of the last group that was added. He will get over it.

Attached Image:

Rainbows

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Welcome to the world of the High-Tech Tank

I think someone who is know as "The Grandmaster" "Uncle Ben" "Black and Tan Man" said it best --- IT'S A LIFESTYLE

Planted tanks take work and regular attention. You have a large tank fully planted from end to end, yes it will require time to keep it looking good and algae free. My tank is smaller and I've only added stems to the main area. Yes the wisteria is a stem, but it's the easiest plant to trim. I haven't uprooted them yet (although that might happen soon)



My Scapes

Last but not least, the final shot for this week belongs to the Espei.

Some of you know why this fish gets the honor of the prime last spot in the picture series, and they sure deserve the special attention.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Espei

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

here is a close-up of the female (non-agressive) female

Ahh, now you're just rubbing it in

Cheers
TW

IT'S A LIFESTYLE

I don't mind the lifestyle of messing with the tank on a weekly base (well known fact that I cannot stop to mess with tanks, ), but I would rather enjoy messing with it to make it prettier rather than controlling algae (I know the issues at hand, just making a statement, we don't have to go through them again).

now you're just rubbing it in

Me , noooooo

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes the wisteria is a stem, but it's the easiest plant to trim. I haven't uprooted them yet (although that might happen soon)

Good luck when you do that! They are a very well rooted plant when crawling. I think its a hygro thing. My giant is just as bad but it doesn't crawl.

LF,
Tank and fish shots are great as normal. I really like your Apistos but I might get my hands on something from africa that will blow your mind.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well I guess I will let the cat out of the bag.
http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/other/cyprichromis_paracyprichromis.html
5th picture down... I am throwing this plan out though. They will not like my low Ph. Sweet fish though...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

Thanks for the compliments on the tank and such.

About the fish you may get:
Yes, it did blow my mind, but for a different reason. A Tanganyika fish in a planted tank? Wouldn't your parameters be way off from the requirements of that fish, like the high ph and O2 that it prefers? Have you looked at the food this fish needs? Overall, that sounds like trouble to me.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am throwing this plan out though. They will not like my low Ph. Sweet fish though...

One of my coworkers was trying to get me to buy them. So I looked into it and realized that it wouldn't be a good idea for a number of reasons:

1. Ph is way too low
2. Too big of water changes
3. High CO2 count and probably too low of a O2 count
4. High Nitrate levels

Too bad....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Weekly Tank Updates - Week 41

There is again not too much to report on this tank for this week, all is the same. The fast growers are growing, and so is the algae

I only perfromed a little pruning this weekend, mostly to remove heavily BBA infested leaves, but not too many. All fish seem to be doing fine, at least almost all of the purchased ones are accounted for.

Deep in my head I am already planning a re-design of this tank, although I know that you folks would probably not support that idea (we know what messes my over-hauls created).

Just a few shot for the week, here is the tank last weekend (for comparison reasons):

Attached Image:

Last Week

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here it is last night. As you can see, the Hygro is growing quite a bit again, and so is the overhanging Ludwigia. The Star Grass is coming back too, I trimmed two stems of that were too tall in comparison to the rest of the group. When I "style" the 40G I will remove the Narrow Leaf Java Fern from this tank as it will serve as a main group in the other tank:

Attached Image:

This Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The whole right half of the tank doesn't look anything

It is a grouping of plants that are desired in the tank but with which I currently don't know what to do. This image is a sample of what I mean, all kinds of plants in random spots, no system, no visual appeal, they are just there. It has to change!

Attached Image:

Boring

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I will post a series of Oto shots in the 40G log, but I was able to capture one the Otos in this tank as well. Rarely do I see them all, the last time was probably a few weeks back. I was lucky enough to count 5 of the 6 today.

When Otos eat of the glass it always seems as if they are singing a song (from an opera) to the bystanders.

Attached Image:

Oto

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a 3 shot journey into the Ludwigia shadowed gardens on the left side of the tank. This area is a favorite hang-out for all fish of the tank, just look at the last full shot and you will see about 90% of all fish in that area.

Attached Image:

Left Side I

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This stage of the Ludwigia growth is the nicest, but soon it will become too long and start to shade the Star Grass to its right. I love it when the roots hand down over the Anubias field and the fish take shelter in between.

Also, note at least 3 Anubia flowers

Attached Image:

Left Side II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last picture for now, an even closer look into the "cave". Center stage takes the female Apisto, also visible in the last two shots (and so was the male).

All the pearling is post water change related, and occurs mostly on the hair algae

Thanks for checking in,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Left Side III

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As always, love looking at your pics.

Cheers
TW

LF,
You really have a Jungle again. Just take it easy when you start to redo things.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks for the input

Wings - it is not really a jungle yet, compared to the jungle it once was when I still had Rock Valley. The plants on the right half are actually far enough apart from each other so that light can reach all the way down to the substrate.

Just take it easy when you start to redo things

- Well, I will see what I can do, but I cannot promise anything. In any way, nothing will happen really soon.

Thanks to the two of you again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Give yourself a break.

I mean your doing a great job scaping the other tanks, why not use this as a grow out tank and you could put all your new plants in it.

Eventually something will come to you and you'll probably scape this the way you want it. Maybe you have "Scaper's Block" It's going around I hear.

My Scapes

Give yourself a break.

Hey, remember - IT'S A LIFESTYLE



Yeah, I will use this tank as a growout tank, that's why I purchased this 125G . Plus, using this tank as a temp storage for plants seems like a bad idea, as I would easily spread hair algae all over my tanks.

See tetratech, I don't think I have a "Scaper's Block" right now, probably the opposite is true. Having created 2 rather nice looking tanks in the last 2 weeks (20 and 29), I feel inspired. Unfortunaltely, I have messed this one up so badly than all but an over-haul would be unsuccessful. But as I said, I am not in a rush, I just try to come to terms with myself if an over-haul is a desired goal.

Thanks tetratech for the well-meaning suggestions, keep them coming ,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Geez just a suggestion .
I don't mean a forever growout tank, just for a while.
Sometimes taking a break from something you see "The forest from the trees" again.

Yes your "little" tanks look quite nice. Maybe we should call you Little_Scaper

My Scapes

I hear you on the "forest for the trees thing. I believe I have noticed that I got too carried away with details and in that process didn't see that the tank as a whole made less and less sense (style wise, not in general).

Right now, I guess the tank is a growout tank, as this is all what the plants in there do, grow - and then come out - because of algae cover

BTW, does anyone know what the stars in my status mean?
**** Ultimate Fish Guru * - I for sure am clueless as to where they came from.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Personally, LF, I think this is the nicest your tank has looked. It's no longer stem plant central, there's some long-term viability there. Such a long tank is difficult to scape, and invariably you wind up with a few different tanks within it, it's hard to be cohesive. I've even seen it in some of Amano's work. I like it as it is, lush, colorful and clear. very well done, and great pics as always

Maybe we should call you Little_Scaper

I like it!

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Back in the saddle!

Oh NowherMan6,

That are very kind words you write there, I appreciate it .

Actually though, the tank is still Stem-Plant-Central, with I would assume about 80% covered with Wisteria, Star Grass, Hyrgo, Ludwigia, and Pearl Grass - all stems.

Little_Scaper - hm, not too bad, although I am LITTLE_FISH for my preference of small fish. So how would that translate into Little_Scaper? Small Plants? Or only a little part of the tank is actually scaped

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think they feel bad for you not having any quiz stars, so they give you some for having a billion posts.

I kinda like the haphazard scaping over on the right side. It's kind of more natural in some regards.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients