FishProfiles.com Message Forums

What

I have Aliens in my tank ?

I knew it, something this bad cannot be from this planet .

I love Science Fiction movies, but I don't have the brain to remember particular phrases. Best movie of this kind ever (because it was ground breaking): 2001 A Space Odyssey.

With regards to the tank: I hooked up the CO2 last night around 6PM and fired it up. I didn't see tetratech's suggestion about increasing it slowly over a few days until now. I actually think that the ph of the tank will fall slowly anyway as it will take some time to saturate the water. So, last night the CO2 was on for about 3 hours, that should not have made much of an impact except reminded the fish and plants of how it should be. Today I am letting it rumble and have full CO2 flow for the full day.

One observation I made, but I might be wrong with the "cause and reaction" relationship analysis: All my fish are swimming much lower in the tank when there was no CO2 added. Usually, most of my Espei occupy the upper realm of the tank to hang out, but in the last 2 days they all huddled just above most plants.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One observation I made, but I might be wrong with the "cause and reaction" relationship analysis: All my fish are swimming much lower in the tank when there was no CO2 added. Usually, most of my Espei occupy the upper realm of the tank to hang out, but in the last 2 days they all huddled just above most plants.

I made the exact same observation in my tank a few days ago, actually one page back I posted a pic. The harleys usually stay near the top, but one day they just started hovering right above the tenellus carpet, just staying in one formation.

Perhaps there are little aliens in our Jersey water that are bothing our fish/ plants...

---

Back in the saddle!

I have Aliens in my tank

That would be Chao's tank I believe
Speaking of Aliens, did Chaos get obducted by one?



My Scapes

Grrrr,

NowherMan6 - now you gave me another reason to worry, water from the tab.

I think to have observed that my fish came up some more once the CO2 was turned back on. I will make sure to sneak in tonight when I come home and check on them before they see me (as they come out as soon as they see me - for food).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

With higher co2 content in the water they may stay closer to the surface to pop up for a gulp of fresh air once in a while ?

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

That was my thought as well. And sure enough, last night when I came home and sneaked downstairs I saw then half way up between the plants and the surface.

I checked on the CO2 and it was going at about 4bps. Unintentionally I followed tetratech's advice of slowly increasing the CO2 as 4bps are not a super sized load. I later crancked it up some more to "slow stream".

I have a question about "cleaning" plants in a Bleach Solution. I guess I should not remove all plant that I would like to save at once and rather stretch the cleaning process out to a few weeks. Some of my plants also don't like to be uprooted, like the Helferi and the crypts. What should I do with these? The bleach solution is 1 part bleach and 19 parts water, right?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well I can't think of a reason not to do them all at once. But I'd do it on water change day so you can clean up the mess from uprooting.

As for the Helferi it depends how bad the algae is. What would cause most long term harm to the plant - being covered in algae or being uprooted. As the guy on the ground you'll have to make that call.

I wouldn't do the crypts though - too melty. As new leaves grow in trim off the damaged ones.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf,

I will inform the groud troops that they are in charge of their actions


Before I forget,

Today is actually a special day when it comes to my involvement in this hobby.

It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tank, the 29G. It was quite an exciting first year that so far has produced 3 tanks, including this monster here . Plus many new friends here at FP, thanks at this point to all the people who gave their input in one way or another.

So when compared to a marriage, I am no longer a newly-wed and will from now on be able to be held responsible for my actions .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tank, the 29G

Does this mean the honeymoon is over and I could take off the gloves and really tell you what I think.

No, but really once you get past the 1st year and have had success like you have had I think your in it for life.

so have a cold dark one and enjoy

My Scapes

Congrates LF! You have done really well for yourself in a year.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

So that would explain why the romance is dead and why he doesn't listen anymore and takes me for granted

Well if you have to ask what the problem is there's no point me telling you.

BTW, do you know that doctors have discovered a new contraceptive ? Yeah, it's called wedding cake

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

So that would explain why the romance is dead and why he doesn't listen anymore and takes me for granted

Yep, I think he's rebelling alittle, trying to make his own tracks through the planted tank jungle.

Marriage, contraceptive


My Scapes

Me - rebelling - nah

Now move over and listen to the ideas of the new tank-keeper generation

Ups, I guess I have nothing to say

In a more tank related issue I have news though:

I arranged with my LFS to give them around 30 Espei tonight for store credit. I don't get much, but it is a start and marks the first time that any of my efforts return some of the investment.

I intend to bag them in 2 bags, 15 each, and then to put the bags in a cooler to bring them there (10min drive). I guess that should be fine, right? Do you have a better idea?

So, while arranging that deal, I perused the store to see what kind of a treat I could get myself for the 1 year anniversary. And what can I say - I found a very nice treat (in my opinion). I put a hold on a pair of Apistogramma viejita II that the store received just 2 days ago. A treat it is, as they cost $80 as this species supposedly is stillrather rare in the trade. I did not see the couple hang out together in the tank, both were going their own ways, but they didn't show any aggression towards each other when their ways crossed either. I assume that the term "pair" in this case means a male and a female rather than a formed pair.

What do you think?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thats a sweet fish! I can't imagin spending that much cash on a couple of fish but you are going to be getting some cash or SC so that will help matters. I think you are right about them being just a M+F not an actual pair. But who knows they may not like their environment right now but when you get them home to the super cool tank they might hook up.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well, congrats on the esepi sale. Could be the start of something. Little_fish's little fish farm. Always nice to get something back and tell the wife

As for the Apistos:

Obviously very nice looking fish. Is that the actual fish your getting or is that a pic from somewhere else?

I would definitely let them stay in the store for a while if possible before moving, since you said they've only have them a few days.

When it comes to feeding time you might have to be more hands on. When I feed my bolivians I have to push away the schooling fish since they eat all the food before it reaches the lower levels where the rams are. I actually put some larger size food in a net and swish it to the bottom, same when I'm feeding worms, etc.




My Scapes

Hi Ingo

It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tank

Congratulations. Now, I had you figured as someone who has been at this for years. You've certainly learned a lot in a short time, 'cause you're certainly full of good advice.

I love your new fish. Gee that's pricey though, it would be AU$108.65. Is that a picture of your actual fish in the store, or is it one from a profile. Just wondering, 'cause my bolivian rams do not look anywhere near as colourful as the picture in the profile found here. Maybe one day, in the distance future, when I've recovered from the cost of kids, tanks (C02 soon I hope), maybe if I save all my dollars up, I can get 2 of them. Hate to order them in to find they don't look like your pic - so that's why I ask.

Again, congratulations on 1 year of fish keeping. Lucky for all the newbies here that you picked this hobby.

Cheers
TW

Oh thanks everybody, in particular Robyn - that is a very nice compliment.

No, sadly the fish pictured is not the real one I am getting, I found the image when googeling the web. Put basically it looks like it.

Leaving the fish in the store may be a good idea tetratech, but I don't think it is really possible - for a few reasons:

- I am rather sure the store is not too wild about holding fish for someone as they like to refill that spot with fish that they can sell
- The tankmates seemed to be too pushy for the little girl and there is not much hiding space (one cave like structure)
- last but not least, some salesguy who might not be in the know and potentially doesn't care to read the label on the tank may sell them

So, they will come home to Daddy tonight (if not sold/dead/ill).

Good point about the food as well tetratech, just later this morning it dawned on me that I didn't know how and what to feed these guys. After doing some research it seems that mostly some live food is suggested, although one book mentioned that they also would be just fine with "quality" flake food. Tell me more about the worms you feed - do you raise them, buy them, defrost them, or what?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF congrats on the one year anniversary We all have you to blame for this Log madness (and Dr Bonke too)

Very nice apistos indeed. And that was a nice bit of luck with finding a rare kind. I would reccomend seeing if they'll breed, you have a possible goldmine on your hands I doubt an LFS would pass up an opportunity to sell fish that they could make a huge profit on

As for feeding, when I feed brine shrimp/ bloodworms they never make it to the bottom for my loaches. What I do is add some tank water to the brine shrimp/ worms, then suck that up in a turkey baster and let it drip out near the bottom. This way the bottom fish get first shot at it, and you can place it directly and not haphazzardly like I imagine would happen with a net. This is useful if the fish are shy at first and you need to spot feed them in their territory or in a cave section

---

Back in the saddle!

Ingo,

That's one gorgeous Apisto, and congrats on the 1 year point. I'm almost ready to set up the planted tank that we've discussed briefly, I can only hope to have even a small amount of the success that you have had.

Jim

---

Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Jim,

I am sure that you will be at least as successful as I have been as you researched the topic at least as much as I did.

Actually, I hope you are better than me as I am still trying to figure out quite a few things here

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

NowherMan6,

Didn't see your entry, I guess I am getting old .

Question: do you feed live food or defrosted/freeze dried?

If the answer is live food then I would appreciate a short introduction. But I am afraid it includes the word refridgerator and I can already see someone kicking me out of the house.

Thanks,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

If the answer is live food then I would appreciate a short introduction. But I am afraid it includes the word refridgerator and I can already see someone kicking me out of the house.

Pack your bags.

I feed them frozen, and I keep the food discreetly hidden in the freezer. But I've been wanting to try out the Omega One freeze dried line. Supposed to be pretty good. Their flake food is also supposed to be excellent, though my harlies aren't crazy about it. High quality.

Cultivating live food shouldn't be too hard, especially brine shrimp. A one gallon tank should do, I'm sure you can find instructions online.

If it's a wild caught pair you may need to go the extra mile in getting them to feed, they may not be as voratious as the espei

---

Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6,

I will ask tonight if it is wild caught. Last thing I want is that the fishies starve to death. I have various freeze dried foods, from Blood Worms (which I find are rather big) over Daphnia (rather small) to San Francisco Bay Brand Brine Shrimp (is floating) and Hikari Tubifex Worms (floating).

Let's hope they like at least one of them.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

When you go to the LFS find out what they have been feeding them. Always good info to know..

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Tell me more about the worms you feed - do you raise them, buy them, defrost them, or what?

I get the frozen cubes (usually san fran brand) I defrost them in a cup with tank water for 10 minutes then I dump out the cup over a net in the sink. I take some more tank water and dump it over the net again to get rid of the residue/bloodly liquid etc. so it doesn't go in the tank. Then I feed some of the school right away and then I go down to the bottom with the remaining worms and realize alittle where the rams hang. At this point the rams are really tame so they will go right into the net if I let them.

Sounds like the apistos are a done deal so good luck with them. I have a store way out east on the Island that stocks alot of them. I'll have to take a trip out there maybe this weekend and see what the deal is.

My Scapes

Thanks for the detailed information, tetratech

Sounds like it would be a bit messy to feed frozen food. I sure hope that they like freeze dried as well.

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's really not that bad. Doesn't freeze-dried float?
That would be harder for the apistos to get to since they stay on the bottom.

BTW - Yes, I do keep the worms in the frig. Actually one type of SF Brand is called "Fish Gum Drops". Nice way to say "Frozen Bugs"


EDIT: Makes a good case for getting a frig in the garage. Load it up with gum drops and black & tans.


My Scapes

Doesn't freeze-dried float?

Yes, it does

I was hoping that soaking it for a while will make it sink, but now I remember that uneaten food tends to stay on top as well. Grrrrr

We don't have electricity in the Garage, maybe I could run a fridge on gasoline .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

well with the snow storm on its way you shouldn't have to worry about keeping them cold.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I recently bought frozen MYSIS shrimp, they come in little cubes and you do the same thing as Tetra with them, I never thought to strain mine though, my guys love the 'gravy' the bloodworms make. No more bloodworms for mine though until I find some with a guarantee that there are no parasites. Freeze dried tubifex are just nasty and messy IMHO, they make such a mess in the tank and the fish get all bloated up after eating them, I thought my barbs would burst after just a few bites!

Do the rams always stay on the bottom? My krib is seen all over the tank and never misses coming to the top for feeding time.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Hey Ingo,

Looked up FP on Apistogramma viejita II. There's only one photo & it might the Apistogramma viejita, which text says is less colourful than Apistogramma viejita II. When you get yours, you should take a pic & put it in the profile here in FP.

I'm going to try the various feeding ideas for my rams, as I have trouble getting food to them & I didn't think of those ideas. Brilliant. The only thing I can get to them is algae wafers, as the other greedy fish don't let anything drop to the bottom.

Cheers
TW

I have both rams and apistos and i feed freeze dried tubifex (aswell as frozen bloodworm and sinking pellets), they come in small cubes and what you do is push them hard against the glass and they stick there, so you can reach your arm in and put it down the bottum for your rams/apistos?

Cynical

I have tried that with the tubifex cubes and they don't stay stuck, it may be different with less voracious fish than my barbs and the krib, but I don't know, they barely touch it and it comes loose!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I will catch up with the entries later, for now I have to go and add water to the bags

But here they are:

Attached Image:

Apistogramma viejita II Female

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the boss, both are still bagged as you can see:

Attached Image:

Apistogramma viejita II Male

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK,

I have a few minutes between water additions now, so first of all for all the input and suggestions on feeding these little charms

I asked in the store how they feed their fish and they told me that during the week it is flakes and on Fridays it is frozen food. But he also showed me that the fish eat freeze dried food, he added some krill to the tank, into the current that pushes the water down from the HOB, and the Apistos ate their share. Nice

Now, a request to all of you: keep your fingers crossed for me that they are doing fine as the last time I got South American Cichlids they both died, it was a pair of German Rams (last fall).

Thanks again, I am sure quite a few more pictures will follow, but not today as it will be lights out soon for this tank.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Simply beautiful fish and looks like a pair too

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Gorgeous, LF. Look forward to seeing them get lost in your jungle

---

Back in the saddle!

BTW, a happy ST. Paddy's day to one and all

Won't be posting much today got an appointment with "a blonde in a black skirt" tetra should know what that is. He's agot a few blondes in black skirts in his fridge !

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Today? Oh yeah, where you are today is tomorrow.

Happy St. Paddy's Bensaf and others... and to LF's new apistos too.

---

Back in the saddle!

Sweet fish. I am sure that he will color up when he is not freaking out from trasport. Best wishes!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks to you all

What can I say, I already start to worry (what else is new). Pretty much as soon as I released them into the 20G I noticed that the resident Platies, even the younger ones, swim up to the new fish, from the side, and try to bite their pectoral fins, grrrrr. I hope they will get used to each other quickly before any major damage is done. I managed to take a few shots last night after release.

Here is the female. As you may see, her caudal fin is not in the best shape. Usually I wait these things out as eventually the fin will grow back, but usually my fish are also rather cheap. Anything I should do?

Attached Image:

Female

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a picture of the male, he pretty much colored up a little as soon as he was added to the tank.

Attached Image:

Male

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, here is a shot of the pair.

I hope they will take good care of each other.

Ingo

Ah, and yeah - happy St. Patricks Day from me too, to all the Irish folks out there

Attached Image:

Pair

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I like all the pics. Favourite is the one of the pair. He looks like he's puckering up for a kiss. Good luck with them, Ingo.

Cheers
TW

LF,

If you think it's just wear and tear on her tail fin, perhaps from nipping in the store tank etc., then melafix and/ or pimafix should do the trick. I don't think it would be tail rot yet, but that would warrant another treatment...

---

Back in the saddle!

LF,
Great find What's next a pair of zebra plecs!

They are already quite beautiful and they should get even more colorful. I don't know, but somehow I think frozen bloodworms, would help with color more than freeze-dried but I could be wrong.

As I mentioned I am looking for a pair as well, so let the Apisto Wars begin.

You are such an animal!

BTW: Found this on a website

"Three color forms of Apistogramma viejita are known. Color form 1 is from Puerto Gaitan, Colombia, 2 from Rio Muco and Rio Guarrojo, Colombia, and the third from tributaries to the Rio Manacacias between Santa Rita and Bengale, also Colombia. The fish have also been described from Venezuela."




My Scapes

Thanks for the input,

Yeah tetratech, I found that info during the day yesterday as well. I am pretty sure that mine actually are the viejita II as the coloration is pretty much on target. There is supposedly another Apisto that looks very similar, I think the difference are the blue lips (or something).

I will keep an eye on the fins to evaluate rotting or "normal" wear and tear from shipping etc.

Also, I am still concerned about the nipping of the fins from the Platies. If I find any loss of pectoral fin pieces then the Platies will be moved tonight into the 29G. Might be a little tight in there then, but they asked for it

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh,

With all this excitement over my new fish I forgot to tell the story of the Espei.

After getting the QT ready with a water change I started to go after the Espei. I readied a larger ziplock bag, removed the three glass lids, filled the bag with 3 cups of tank water, and the hunt was on.

1 hour and 15 min later I caught either 27 or 28 of the juveniles. Most were of younger age, not tiny though, as the older ones are already too fast and smart to be caught be the old guy. I then realized that the ziplock bag is not easily put down as the bottom corners could fold up and kill any fish that may be stuck in it. With the help of the wife I poured them into an old LFS bag that I wisely saved (or forgot to throw out ).

Then I packed the whole bag in 3 towels and in a cooler box, just to be on the save side. 10 min later I was in the store and the sales person in charge seemed to be rather satisfied with my fishies. Actually, I expected this as the shipments from Asia usually produce skinny, small, and pale Espei. He filled my fishies in a clean bucket and it was time to say good-by to them .

So - to anyone who reads this entry and plans to purchase my Espei, take good care of them, will ya?

I can tell already that the big tank looks emptier with about 30% of the fish population gone.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF what did you get for your fish? if anything.

i know how hard it is to remove fish, that you have feed and grown, in your case bred.

i decided to exchange my RTS at the weekend, he had become far to aggressive, chasing every fish in the tank apart from the angel, i got 6 bags of live food in exchange!

How are your rainbows doing? any sign of breeding yet?

i'm hoping to get a couple male rainbows this weekend!

Congrats on the dwarfs, they look great, i got a male cockatoo, last weekend, still trying to find female. is it your intendtion to add them into the 125G, might be hard to see them once they are in.

Karl.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

Karl,

The deal was basically $1 per Espei (they sell them for $4) of store credit, but because I told them there are either 27 or 28 (and counting them is hard) and because I believe they were rather happy with the condition of the fish, I received $30.

This credit, and quite some additional cash, was used up just a few minutes later alread when I got the Apistos.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

some reason I think the population will come back. Probably not as fast being you have the rainbows in there now but it will come back.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yeah Wings, there is a good chance that this will happen. As I still see the occasional very young fish peeking out from the denser growth areas.

Karl - forgot to answer your question about the Rainbows. The are doing just fine (all 6), but I don't see any mating going on. If I am not mistaken then they are egg scatterers and their offspring need quite some time to develop into larger fish (that are not easily eaten anymore). If they had babies then they all became food.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So let me get this straight:

- Two espei $8
- Two Double Red Apisto Agassizi $20
- Bensaf saying your Apisto Viejita are simply beautiful on St. Patrick's Day - Priceless!



My Scapes

That is so true tetratech

I wish he would say similar things about my planting

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

"a blonde in a black skirt"

Oh yeah

Don't expect much today. I expect him to resurface in about a week.

My Scapes

Quick update on the Apisto:

So far so good
They were both still alive when I came home and I did not witness any aggression from the Platies towards them.

I decided to feed them and shoved small dosaged of flake food below the water surface so it would sink. And es, we got some eaters . Also, I addedd some freeze dried tubifex worms and they ate the ones that sank (pushed them down a little) AND from the surface, excellent.

After a good meal, the male Apisto showed the Platies who is boss in the tank and chased them around a little. Revenge for their picking yesterday

But I have a new question

In all this fish madness I almost completely forgot that I am getting a small plant order and today it came in. 5 Anubias Nana Petite (just for the fun of it) and 3 (actually got 4 for some reason) Anubias Congensis. Now I know that Anubias are having their rhizome exposed, and I assume that this is the case for all of them. But just to make sure: the Congensis as well? I have pretty much no smaller roots on the rhyzome so I guess that would mean that I have to tie them to something. Also - they get pretty tall, right (18 inches) ?

Here is the new plant order:

Attached Image:

New Plants

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is a close-up of two Congensis rhizomes. For the time being I just wedged them in some spots in the tank, for sure not the final position though (front of tank).

Attached Image:

No Roots?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

My guess would be that they need the rhizome exposed, also they've probably been trimmed for shipping and will grow new roots quickly, so if you tie them or wedge them in they should have new roots befroe you know it!

Glad to hear the apistos are doing good, I kind of thought they would come up for food, being cichlids they could be greedy little attention seekers, my krib does tricks when she wants to be fed, shows off all over the place. They will colour up nicely as they settle in and when they finally go into the 125 just wait to see their colours explode! Frozen food being as close to live as I have gotten seems to induce mating frenzy in my fish, even the krib, she turns more purple after a good frozen food feast.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

So you have your krib in the planted tank? Doesn't make a mess of things? If i can't get my hands on Cockatoo then I might have to do kribs. They have been starting to color up at work and look pretty nice.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

She only tears into the plants once in a while, and has never done any real damage to them. I keep her slightly underfed as I do for the rest of the fish. They are really beautiful fish once they colour up in the home tank. If I could I'd get her a mate, right now I just have the barbs (5) and danios (3) and 1 SAE with her, still I worry that a pair would kill the other fish, maybe in a bigger tank it would be fine. I'll have new pictures tonight and I'll try and get a good one of her.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Don't expect much today. I expect him to resurface in about a week.

No here I am. Saturday morning back in work - busy.

I needed a beer yesterday one those strange "what the hell am I doing here days".

I did a tour of the factory yesterday. Down at the warehouse there is a cement drainage ditch going around the perimeter of the building. This ditch is no more then c foot wide and deep. There's been heavy rain lately so it had no maore then 2 inches of water. As I walked by something caught my eye. This little drainage ditch was swarming with fish , hundreds of them poking about in the soating of mud at the bottom. About an inch. Couldn't make out what they were but looked Rasbora like. Then I noticed there were a lot of crabs up to a couple of inches wide (I didn't even know there were freshwater crabs !) and what's known locally as "bulot", which are like small eels or birchirs. I only know thenm as they make great eating when deepi fried . I don't know of any big body of water nearby, how the hell all this life got in drainage ditch I don't know. It's a very lush country.

Even weirder then that was the next episode. I had my delivery supervisor come to me with a manpower requisition. Wanted to hire a new truck driver. I asked why he need a new driver, and he said the usual guy was sick. Of course I asked why can't we wait for him to come to work.....the conversation in Indonesian went something like this.

Him: "He'll be out for a month, Pak"
Me: "Oh, it must be serious, what's wrong with him ?"
Him: "He's possessed by the devil, Pak"
Me: "Uuuhhhhhhhh ??????"
Him: " Ya, Pak, he was going home from work last night and a demon entered his body"
Me: "You're taking the mickey right ?"
Him: " No Pak, the excorcist says he needs to stay indoors for a month, he can't drive anyway Pak, he keeps twitching"
Me " Well if his head turns 360o he won't need the rearview mirror "
Him: " Sorry Pak, don't understand"
Me: " Are you really asking me to hire somebody else because one of our guys is suffering from demonic possession ?"
Him: "Yes, Pak, why is there is a problem?"

This went on for a another 20 minutes or so, as I tried to explain to the guy why I couldn't give someone a month off because they thought they were in the clutches of a menevolent spirit.......

Really, I sometimes wonder how the hell I ended up here. It's not like they even have draft Guinness.Only the cans.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

take breath



I need a kleenex, that brought tears to my eyes and made my belly hurt, if I had a job I'd try that excuse. Sometimes I think the kids are demonic spirits sent here to torture and torment me!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

The really funny thing is that you tryed to have fun with it and the guy didn't have a clue. Talk about culture shock. How long have you been there? Still have to be weird.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I have read in various reports that in tropical climates fish and other critters can be found in even the smallest ditch. Come to think of it, I also don't recall an explanation on how these animals get there

And I hear you on the troubles with understanding / accepting local customs in a foreign country. Just yesterday I saw thousands of people dressed in green, wearing funny hats, and being drunk, at Noon. I couldn't even get lunch for an hour as the Irish Pub was jammed with youngsters (I would say minors) drinking beer. I have no idea what demon caused them to do that .

Bensaf, I think we have the biggest St. Patrick's Day parade of the world here, they expected 2 million people along the route through Midtown Manhattan. You may have liked it

About the Congensis: I guess we are in sink that the Rhizome cannot be buried, right?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Bensaf

It's not like they even have draft Guinness.Only the cans.

You poor pup!

Look I have enough trouble conversing with the older generation just to buy co2 gas for a planted aquarium - Did you ever?

My Scapes

I couldn't even get lunch for an hour as the Irish Pub was jammed with youngsters (I would say minors) drinking beer

I just want to say, I noticed the exact same thing. I couldn't go out for my lunch walk yesterday because of that parade. WHile walking down one strett there were tons of kids - 14-17 year old kids - drunk, getting sick, getting arrested by cops. I couldn't believe it, where did they drink all this? How did they get served? And why aren't they in school?

---

Back in the saddle!

Isn't it cute how kids can get away with such things? Yay for good parents!

About the Congensis: I guess we are in sink that the Rhizome cannot be buried, right?

OH yeah i wouldn't. Best bet now it to tie them down to something and let the roots grow. Once you have roots then you can plant them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

BTW, legal beer drinking age in Germany is 16.

We learn to handle drinking first and only then are allowed to drive a car (18).

Also, hard liquor legal drinking age is 18.

Wings, thanks for the info on the Congensis .

I guess today I will be busy with at least some bleaching and planting.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Do you bleach all your new plants?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

That has nothing to do with the new plants. It is or the ones in the tank that are covered in thread algae.

The new plants will not be bleached as I don't want to stress them for no reason.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Could you detail how the bleaching goes, I'm thinking I need to bleach mine when I do the major over-haul. No sense putting nasties in with the new look!

I remember my little stint across Europe when I was 17, the legal age in Dover, England was 14, in Switzerland it was 16 I think, same in Austria and most of the rest of Europe, do I remember much else? Nope, just a lot of Beer and wine in different countries, what a trip! Oh yeah I think we saw some castles and churches, whatever. Ordering beer in the afternoon in German and drinking it out in the open was a big deal for me then. Now I can barely remember any German, and what I do remember is naughty thus not for polite conversation.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib - I don't know how it is done, maybe someone else should explain it. I trie it today with the result that the threads are now white (dying? ) and I am so worried that my Otos will die.

I am sorry, I am having a moral tank low

I again slaved 7 hours over this tank. I am more in the mood of trashing that planting thing than ever.

Not many words will follow today, just an opera in 6 acts.

Act 1

Attached Image:

Act 1 - Overture to Disaster

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 2

Attached Image:

Act 2 - Let the Slaughter Begin

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 3

Attached Image:

Act 3 - More Soldiers are Falling

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 4

Attached Image:

Act 4 - The Bloodied Battlefield

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 5

Attached Image:

Act 5 - Prepare to Surrender

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Act 6 - Final Act

Attached Image:

Act 6 - Unconditional Surrender

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Opera Cliff Notes

Attached Image:

Summary Before - After

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

WOW! Major change Ingo! I liked the jungle before and the new look looks good too! Hope you recover enough to tell us more about how it went, from your earlier post it didn't sound like it went all that well. Aren't you risking another algae outbreak with the smaller plant load?
How can you tell with the otos how they are doing? Mine showed no symptoms other than clamped fins until I found them dead, in the 10g I have clamped otos that have continued to live while I lost panda cories. They really didn't give me any warning as to their health.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Funny...it looks good no matter how you rearrange it.

I am not really sure which one I like better. I think there are things about both that I like and dislike but I can't really point them out for some reason. Maybe its because it took me an hour to close the store tonight... people just wouldn't leave!

I guess one thing I really like is the tall grassy stuff in the front. I think that looks sharpe! Other than that I don't know either way. What are your plans for a forground plant? Sag? Going to keep things simple this time?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I definatly like the second one better though I am unsure about that red plant on the far right. Great looking tank though!

Plz stop shaming my algae ridden tanks

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

Gang,

Thanks for the input. I really was tired yesterday, and agitated, to say the least. I did not plan to spend another 7 hours on the tank. But once I started to weed out heavily invested plants one step led to the next and before I knew it the tank was pretty much empty again. I thought that I will use this chance to replant/reorganize the plant groups, as the previous layout could not be recreated because so many plants "had to go".

I will break down the tank sections into 4 parts and explain what went on in my mind and in the process of creating them.

Section A - Anubias Farm

First of all, based on previous suggestions, I decided to group the Anubias together. That in itself is a great idea, the leaf forest will serve as a great base for Espei breeding. So, I placed all anubias on a tray and started to trim off old leaves and in most cases also to divide the plants into 2 as the rhizomes where long enough to do so.
I removed the Anubias first from the tank (not knowing how long this all will take) and hours later, when it was time to put them back in, I checked on them for the first time since trimming.
I was in shock, half the leaves were rolled up and appeared totally dried out and dead. Later, after a while in the tank, most seemed to have recovered though. I tied the Congensis to a rock and placed that one close to the Star Grass as a seperator. Also, the tiny Nana Petites are tied to a small rock.
In addition, I added all my crypt types into this section. The Bacopa is there a a filler, it doesn't fit in but I need fast growers to re-establish the tank.

Attached Image:

Section A

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Section B - Main Group

This one was the the easy part, at least concerning the Star Grass as I was happy with it's placement. All plants in front of it were removed and I had to figure out what could go in their place. For one thing, I was able to remove the large rock that holds down the wood and replace it with a smaller one. The fern on the wood didn't look all that good in the leftmost position, so I placed it in the crack between wood and rock. That pretty much left me only with the Cyperus Helferi as a plant in front of the Star Grass.
Probably because it took so long for it to grow I simply could not let go of the Helferi. It got a 10 min bleach bath (19 water, 1 bleach) followed by rinsing and storing for hours in clean water (only a few other plants recieved leach baths, they were only dunked in bleach solution and then rinsed off).
Only after adding them back to the tank did I realize that the fuzz is still on them, but I was running out of time. The threads are white or gray and I am afraid that they still contain enough bleach to sicken anyone who may nibble at them.
The overall problem I have with this group is that it is too green. The leaf shape varies, that is good, but all are the same color.

Attached Image:

Section B

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Section C - The Valley

For this section I had a clear vision, Pearl Grass all the way from the back to the wood, in a sloping fashion. This was an idea that I had going for quite a while, I even suggested a similar approach to upikabu at some point.

Well, I did it and the problem I see now is that I don't get any depth perception of the slope. It looks flat. Maybe if I grow it even further to the front (really low there) then it may work better.

Attached Image:

Section C

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Section D - What is that?

This section is truely bad and a shame for this tank. I pretty much ended up there with all plants that I don't want to dispose off but couldn't fit in anywhere else.

The Red Rubin Sword was bleach bathed and heavily trimmed, the Alternanthera got a bleach bath too. I need to maintain the Ludwigia as a fast grower, maybe if it gets fuller and taller it will look nice there, don't know yet.

So basically, it is a mess.

And this is why I am not happy. You work so hard on this and the rewards are mixed, at best. It made me feel like I just don't have a good enough vision on how to plant a tank nicely.

Attached Image:

Section D

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Don't let your tank get you down. Its still a work in progress and its cool that you have the guts to try new stuff with your tank. Most of us don't want to don't want to change anything with our tanks. Myself I am dreading to my algae issues on my giant hygro. I guess the moral of the story is that things change, you change your mind and you can always change it again. Get on with it!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ingo, your tank looks great. You are too self critical - but then, most of us are.

Most of us don't want to don't want to change anything with our tanks

Wings is right, you always seem so keen get stuck in & try things in your tank, when others hold back. Sometime ago, you suggested I ask the planted tank gang in a thread, with a pic of my tank, for help to make it look better. Because I don't have the energy at the moment to rearrange, I havn't done that - I have held back. You wouldn't do that - you'd be in it straight away. (I want to sort out my C02 one way or the other first - then I come & ask for help). But you, you'd jump straight in. Good job on the replant. But then, it looked good to me before too.

Cheers
TW

Not quite sure I know where to start. I liked the tank after you added the wood, but I understand the mass wasn't there to continue.

I think right now you have to fiqure out how not to get into this situation again so the plants get destroyed.

Light, Biofilter, Fish Load, Plant Mass, C02, Nutrients
We need to find out the problem and then move on to the scaping.

My Scapes

Where the heck did you get the idea to give a 10 minute bleach bath ? 2 minutes will do it.

Don't worry about the white stuff it's dead algae. Won't harm anyone the fish will make a snack out of it.

Stop worrying full stop. This is supposed to be fun !!!!!

DO NOT DO ANOTHER MAJOR OVERHAUL LIKE THIS FOR A WHILE.iT'S UNSETTLING.

Ok. cap lock off.

Where did you get that much pearlgrass?

You're being hard on your self. A 125 gal is no easy job to scape.
You are on the right track big groupings of a few species is the way to go.The Anubias was a good idea to put together.

Again all that's needed is a big bunch of something dramatic Aromatica type plant.Behind the peargrass would be perfect. Fill out the front left with more crypts -plain old wendtii will do. Behind that some kind of filler like Cambomba to give some lightness. Then fill out the right side with something like Wisteria. I'm keeping to simple cheap easy to find plants to promote some stability. Around the wood and rock fill out with Wendelov Fern or NArrow leaf or more Anubias.

Keep the dosing routine simple and steady. Don't waver.

Fill out the plants as outlined above, keep the dosing steady, sit back and watch for a few weeks. Patience is key, it can take weeks for plants to fill out the way we want them to. Let them fill out with cheapies and fast growers so you can a feel for a full look and shaping. Play with shape of these til you settle on a look you like.

BTW those plants you got a few weeks ago you thought were Anubias - how they doing?

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

All - Thank you so much for the encouragement and constructive critzism, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I know that THE most important thing now is balance. I think one problem I created recently was letting the P drop too low (I know, I know, you told me so). I lost all Duckweed, none left, zip, nada, I take it as an indicator for a lack of P as it likes P (and high N).

Bensaf, as sad as it is, I kind of enjoy worrying, that's my nature . It keeps my mind busy and the job intereting. I am almost afraid that just sitting back won't cut it for me.

This doesn't mean you guys should stop helping me out when I am in dispair, please.

That much Pearl Grass? I even through some out. I will post a picture below, just before the current one (weekly update), that shows the tank front full of it all over the place.

I like the Anubias group idea as well, I just don't know if its execution was performed all that well. The "suspicious" Anubias from a few weeks back are still there and they are getting new leaves. I now assume they are Congensis as they look a lot like the ones I just got.

Filler plants for the time being: Good idea, I will just have to get them and find the time to put them in. We will see. I for sure will keep my dosing of ferts up, no reduction.

The front left contains Crypts, as you will see in a close-up shorly. So, on to the main topic.


Weekly tank update - Week 25

Almost all details have been discussed above, but here is a quick summary: Coming back from vacation I noticed that my CO2 ran out. This enhanced an already existing Thread algae problem and the week was used to discuss a possible cleaning/replanting effort. This has been done yesterday and the results, from a visual perspective, are mixed (you be the judge).

The postive highlight of the week was the trade in of 30 Espei as part of a payment for a pair of Apistogrammas. I love them and so far they are doing well in the QT.

Here are some pictures:

First the tank the week before the first major overhaul, in week 18. It was pretty jungle like and the overhaul was needed to retrofit the tankwith wood and to avoid overgrowing.

Attached Image:

Week 18

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now here is a picture of the tank from last weekend, week 24. As you can see (Bensaf), there are loads of Pear Grass growing all over the front of the tank.

They all come from one small batch that I purchased when I set up the tank 25 weeks ago. This plant is versatile, easy to replant, easy to divide, grows partially shaded, in summary a plant that I would recommed any time.

I find that this layout / growth did not give the tank any depth.

Attached Image:

Week 24

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now, the tank as of today - week 25

It looks much emptier, partially of course because I removed dying or bad growing plants like most of the Crypt Retrospiralis and Sags / Dwarf Swords. The plant arrangements are not really what I would like to maintain in the long run, but sentimental reasons (Helferi, for example) and fast growers (Bacopa, for example) led to this arrangement.

BTW: I counted 5 Otos this morning, so I take it they are doing fine.

Attached Image:

Week 25 - today

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the Anubias group:

The Nana and Barteri form the center, the Congensis on the right back and the maybe Congensis almost hidden on the left back. The small rock with the Nana Petite is in the front of the main group, flanked by Crypt Lucens and Lutea.

In itself this would for sure make a nice tank, like a 29G. I just don't know how it looks in conjunction with my other plants.

Attached Image:

Anubias Farm

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now here is a close-up of the green and red Crypt Wendtiis. I collected them from all over the tank, at least what was left of them, and placed them in one big group, rather close to each other to encourage growth (I think Wings suggested this at some point).

We will see how they are doing there, but traditionally I am not too successful with Wendtiis as they usually have one leaf melting for each new one in all of my 3 tanks.

Attached Image:

Wendtii Farm

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of two surviving Glosso stems. They made it all the way through the 2 major overhauls. This time though I actually removed them from the tank before vacuuming to make sure that they will survive.

I don't know what I will do with them once they should decide to take off again. I somehow like the open foreground. Maybe the next fish to get should be a school of Cories, I will have to think about it.

Attached Image:

Glosso

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now here is an interesting observation, maybe you have a similar experiece. The Rainbows and the Pearls like to "hang out" together, I would almost go as far as to say that they are schooling together.

This is in particular obvious since my rather brutal netting of the Espei in last weeks trade-in. Before that it seemed to mostly happen before feeding time.

Attached Image:

Pearl and Rainbow Gang

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now, this week cannot be complete without showing the Apistos again

They are truely lovely fish and I can only recommend them. It would break my heart if they would not make it in my tank(s). The initial aggression of the Platies towards them has stopped, the male is now clearly the boss in the tank.

Here is the female.She spends most of the time perusing the tank and nipping on plants and gravel. I don't know if she is going for small snails or plant matter. When she feeds on the surface it makes a clicking sound. Beautiful to watch.

Attached Image:

Female

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the male. He spends all day patrolling the tank and chasing the Platies, in particular after feeding when all the food is eaten. I wonder why he does that? I think he has colored-up even more and he for sure is nice to observe.

Both male and female are true stalkers. They swim up to something (like moss or gravel) hover for a second or two in front of it, and then they go in for the kill (or whatever they do there), really fast. The same can be said for their routine of surface feeding. They hover just below the surface, eye the food, and then shoot forward to catch it (with a click). Even without reading about it I can say that in nature they eat flies etc. that fall in the water.

Isn't he beautiful?

Attached Image:

Male

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gorgeous LF. Really gorgeous. Have you considered using your 20 or 29g as a breeding tank. Might be kinda fun?



My Scapes

Thanks tetratech

I first want to make sure that they make it though QT. My Rams also looked fine for a while, and then they died .

And if you don't tell my wife, maybe a commited 10G for breeding (at some point) might be appropriate. What I know so far is that there is quite some time invoved in growing out the fry. Also, it is virtually impossible to identify males and females for a long time. This would mean that you have to keep as many fry as you can to assure possible pairs later on.

So overall this would be quite a challenge.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thay are absolutely beautiful! I love the way he flares his spines in the pic of the male. Their behavior is typical cichlid hunting behavior I think as my krib does the same things. It's a delight to watch her picking around the tank. I love it when she jumps out from behind the main driftwood and lunges at one of the other residents, they flee madly away from her and she looks so smug, it's like she's playing a game only she can understand. They may eat bits of the plants but not destroy them. I feed algae flakes every now and then, it is good for the digestion. Most cichlids are omnivorous opportunity feeders. They are truly magnificent Ingo, I really hope they make into their final home with no issues, once there they will quickly become the rulers of their territory I'm sure.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I so have to get my hands on a couple Apistos. I was talking to my boss about it the other day and he said that I am better off trying to get them through the local club rather than him. He also said that they are hardier than Rams. I said cool man! Although I really do like rams too... I guess I will have to set up another tank sometime or change a tank over. I can see some problems occoring later on when I am married...

Oh my boss has gone on colecting trips to SA for discus because he used to breed them. I guess I will have to trust him on this one.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

There is one more thing I would like to share about the Apistos, especially the female. I swear I didn't tinker with the camera settings and the lens is reflecting what I see in the tank.

I had a feeling this morning that she is coloring up and then I checked again this afternoon. She is getting yellow, which - in terms of Apistogramma viejita - means she is getting ready. Wow, that would be almost too fast .

But see for yourself and let me know if I am fooling myself. First sequence is from the evening I got them, so 3 days ago. The middle one is from around 10:30 AM today and the other one is from a few minutes ago, so 7 hours later.

EDIT: It also appears as if the middle part of her caudal fin is growing back in already, nice.

Attached Image:

Do I see Yellow?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I see yellow!

Therefore you should come see my tank!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Not quite egg guarding colors, but getting yellower nonetheless. You'll know when she's getting feisty. Lovely couple LF, good luck with them. Breeding them in your water would be difficult though, I think it's a little hard? Acid Rain told me that the eggs harden if the the water isn't soft enough. A 50/50 RO/Tap combo would probably do the trick. I love apistos and other dwarf cichlids(look around at some nannacara sp.), they make up for their size with outstanding colors.

Can't believe you completely made over the tank again. This is the 4-5th time? Those plants must get tired of moving, I know I would. Looks nice every time, don't let any nitpickers tell you different.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

Thanks for the input

Yeah, I am getting tired of these major overhauls as well, although I think it is only the second time around that I removed almost all my plants at once.

I think I have actually very soft water, the one time I checked my GH I got a reading of 1dH (same as my tab KH), that is why I add the Seachem Equilibrium after each water change. So maybe there is egg hope in the future, although I am certainly not in a rush with anything. All I really want them to do is to survive happily

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

No phosphates ? You killed Duckweed, a plant that could survive a nuclear holocaust ? Where was all the "I have got a lot of P in my tap" nonsense we've been listening to for the last 65 pages ????

Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late

I have to agree the "execution" of the ANubias planting is not the best. Too flat. Get some rocks and tie/rubber band the Anubias on to crate some shape and a bit of mound. Or a bit of rock pile and use the Anubias to fill in cracks etc. You got fill that area with a real nice feature that would be almost maintenance free. It would make a nice playground for the Apisto's too

I know you have crypts on the left but add more don't wait for the existing ones to fill in. More, more. hat and the Anubias structure would fill out that side of the tank real nice. Very little work to keep looking good.

Those Apisto's have something in common with me - they get better looking with age

The after feeding aggression is normal for lots of fishes. After the initial feeding frenzy is over it's time to collect the scraps, lot's a fish will suddenly get territorial and chase away others to give itself a better chance of getting the scraps before anyone else.

They poke around the plants looking for things like snail eggs , hydra and other little micro-organisms. Great to watch.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late

Yeah, the loss of Duckweed is a miracle to me. Having kept up my dosing of N even with reduced plant mass, and having more fish (by growth, not number) should mean that N was not a factor. The only nutrient I tinkered with was P and I am rather certain that I did not let that one bottom out but more likely had it between 1 and 2ppm. But given that nothing else changed, that must have been it. Or - I see the Rainbows and Pearls occasionally nibbling on it and during my last overhaul about 5 weeks ago I did reduce the amount of duckweed so that only a handful remained. Maybe, just maybe, the fish ate more than the growth rate of the plant.

I will create a picture of an Anubias mount on the left of the tank later, and then talk about issues I could see with it.

Thanks for the info on the "after feeding" aggression and the poking .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wouldn't you know it...I went to work on Sunday and found a tankfull of awesome Rasboras. I took a bunch home. Gotta love how that works! Fish are awesome man, Tom hasn't shut up about them yet! Tank looks good too. Good call on the Apistos.

Its fun bringing fish home from Local breeders. Tonight I just brought home a BN from this guy that is older than dirts tank. He is thinking of pulling the female because he still has way too many of them in his 90G. I think he brought in about 100 of them and he said he has more where that came from....... Nice healthy fish though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Tainted Glory,

So you got some of my Espei, great . How many did you get? Glad to hear that Tom likes my fishies, I guess they sell pretty good then (if not snatched up by all the employees first).

Now you take good care of them as I had a rather hard time letting them go . And give me some updates on them once in a while, will you?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gang,

I would need all your brain power to help me on the Anubias Mount idea that Bensaf just recently mentioned. It makes perfect sense to me to have the Anubias in that arrangement, but I have quite a few issues with the actual implementation.

The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center, orange starts off low on the left and continually rises to the right to attach to the main Star Grass group. Here are a few thoughts:

- The main issue I believe is the water flow in the tank. The spray bar is on the top left side (horizontally) and the intake sits also on the left side at the back bottom. I am concerned that a mount right in front of the intake would create a rather strong current in that area. I also could see that such a layout would cut off the right side from the water flow completely.
- If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake?
- Keeping the overall structure in mind, would that create a nice horizon (light blue) for the whole length?

What are your ideas?

Ingo

Attached Image:

Some Options

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo after all the work you just did on the tank, are you sure you're ready to mess with the structure more? If so here's my idea for making the retreat for fry safe from the intake and keeping a nice horizon.
Here
It's in very bright colours but I think it's straight forward.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake?

Umm, do you want more Espei fry? It's also no guarantee that they'll breed over there, plus this isn't an Espei breeding tank, so i would'nt change the landscape around just to fit their needs.

As for the Apistos, if you want to make things nice for them to breed make a little bit of rock work on the far side of the tank, on the right. They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse. Besides, in order to survive with the pearls and rainbows they'll have to hang out in the undergrowth and not wander too far - by the time they're big enough to safely come out they should be strong enough swimmers

---

Back in the saddle!

luvmykrib - Yup, bright colored, but easy to understand . I was almost afraid that someone suggests this "change" as it was an option that I had on my mind but neglected to mention because of the work involved . Actually, I think this would be the best solution for all things considered.

NowherMan6, sure do I want more Espei . Didn't you see the entry above from Tainted Glory? He works at the LFS where I just traded my Espei. Imagine if I could get all future fish on a reduced price based on trade-ins.
And again, as I mentioned to luvmykrib , I thought that this is how it would have to be. Anubias on rocks to the right, doubling up as a breeding ground for Espei and Apistos. That may work.

It might actually not be such a mess to swap the 2 groups. All Amubias are sitting rather lose on the gravel at the left and most plants on the right can be easily pulled (except the Red Rubin Sword, that will be a little messy). At least the gravel does not have a lot of gunk on it as it had been cleaned very well last weekend.

In addition, I will recieve (I believe tomorrow) a plant order of:

Mother plant Green Wendtii
Mother plant Red Wendtii
A Few Stems of Ludwigia arcuata (Needle Leaf)
And for the fun of it - 1 Anubias pynaertii and 1 Anubias afzelii

I guess I will "park" them in the tank until I have more time to plant on the weekend.

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am glad you were also thinking of that suggestion, I didn't want it to come from left field but I think it will look quite nice when it's done.
I recently added the l. arcuata to both my tanks, it's a great plant with small needle leaves, the one in the 10 is shedding leaves as quick as it is growing new ones, but it is still growing and that's what counts, maybe keep it away from the current will help, and the one in the 25 looks great, it is a wonderful contrast to the lager leaves of the crypts and the nana it is beside. Too bad it doesn't come in red, it doesn't does it?
More anubias to fill in the mound? The more the merrier! How will you be able to tell them apart? Little garden tags beside each one? Can't wait to see them. Have you decided which rocks to pile together and how it may look when it's finished?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thanks luvmykrib for the info on the arcuata. I ordered only 4 and given the prize for it I assume it means 4 stems (I actually wanted to have another type of Ludwigia, but they were out of that one and called me to select a replacement, very nice). With such a small mass to begin with it will take a while before I have a needle forest .

Good idea about the plant tags, I am sure that it is only a question of time until I will have to look at photos on the web to identify which plant is what. Fortunately I am pretty good at adding the names of the plants I have to my profile, so at least I don't have to even search for that.

I have loads of rock of the kind that you see holding down the big branch. I simply assumed that I will go ahead and pile them up somehow, leaving small openings and overhangs for the Apistos and the Espei.

Do I know how it will look in the end? No clue . I think the one thing that stopps me from becoming a good scaper is the fact that I am rather bad at imagening how things will look like when all is said and done .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse

Yes that's really true the 2 times I did see eggs in my tank from my rams they spawned in two different areas of the tank. First time it was on the surface of a flat rock the 2nd time they spawned on the vertical face of one of the rocks making up the beachfront. So ya never know what they're thinking. Might be a coincedence but the 2nd time they spawned in the front the eggs never made it to fry. The first them I had about 100 fry, but you know the story from there............

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech, certainly an interesting observation. I hope one day I can report back on multiple spawning sites, but until then we have to hope that they make it though.

And tetratech, no comment on the desired Anubias mount? You currently are the man of the perfect layout, I need your advice .

Besides that, I am in love with a girl. Yes, besides my wife and daughter, I have a new girl. The female Apisto has taken my heart by storm. Just look at her development in only 5 days:

Attached Image:

My Love

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I can't see any problems with flow etc. Many people use big structures like this hide intakes etc. I know I do.

Take out the Anubias , get a few rocks and put them in and arrange, study, re-arrange 'til you are happy (late August 2012 is my guess ). You are not uprooting anything so it'll be minimal disturbance. If you like you rubber band select Anubias to the rocks, the rest can just be put in cracks or gaps (don't force them in).

I gurantee you'll be happy with the look. It's a very natural vista and it will help highlight and balance the more delicate lines of the driftwood.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Besides that, I am in love with a girl.

I assume your not like ther rest of us poor slobs and you go for personally as well as looks.

Unless you go saltwater it's tough to beat the personally and looks of the dwarf cichlids.

I have to go back again to look at the anubias situation. Remember I only had anubias once and I didn't like the way it looked in my setup.







My Scapes

LF,

Your fish is looking really nice. She must like you too. Well at least what you have given her.

As for the Anubias mound. Bensaf has already kind of said what to do. Just keep playing with it until you find something that flows for you. This will be easy for you to change and mess around with too. The one thing I would like to add though is to try using fishing line instead of rubber bands. It won't jump out at you as much. Just make sure to not tie it too tight and cut the plant.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

you go for personally as well as looks

Yeah, she seems to be very smart, well spoken, and displays great manners at the dinner table

Honestly, I thought these fish may be a little on the shy side first, but when they swim near the front glass they don't move away at all when I touch it. It almost seems as if they would like to come even closer so I can pet them (I think I lost it completely).

Wings - thanks for the info. I have gotten pretty good at tying things down with thread and I think I will stick to that method. And for Apisto food, appetizers are flakes and the main course is some freeze dried tubifex worms.

Speaking of Anubias (), I am currently paying the prize for letting them sit out of the water during the overhaul. As I mentioned before, various leaves did not like the hours in the air and started wo wrinkle up and appreared very dry. Most seemed to have recovered though, but a few are now displaying holes and missing pieces on the edges. Maybe during the creation of the mount I will cut them off, albeit they don't show signs of disintegration, just missing parts.

Speaking of mount etc., anyone has any idea where I would place the two Wendtiis (red/green)? I don't have them yet, but given the prize and description (mother plant) I expect them to be rather large. I for sure think that one will look very nice in the front left corner, but what about the other one? The mount in itself, I think I will first try to have it slope down from right to left so the height evens out with the Star Grass next to it (and I may put the Bacopa - currently all the way on the left - in between Star Grass and mount) going down to the left side. Sounds good? I am asking now as the plants will arrive today and I can see myself not being able to wait until the weekend to redo the scape, I just cannot resist .

Sorry about the long entry,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club