FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Opera Cliff Notes

Attached Image:

Summary Before - After

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

WOW! Major change Ingo! I liked the jungle before and the new look looks good too! Hope you recover enough to tell us more about how it went, from your earlier post it didn't sound like it went all that well. Aren't you risking another algae outbreak with the smaller plant load?
How can you tell with the otos how they are doing? Mine showed no symptoms other than clamped fins until I found them dead, in the 10g I have clamped otos that have continued to live while I lost panda cories. They really didn't give me any warning as to their health.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Funny...it looks good no matter how you rearrange it.

I am not really sure which one I like better. I think there are things about both that I like and dislike but I can't really point them out for some reason. Maybe its because it took me an hour to close the store tonight... people just wouldn't leave!

I guess one thing I really like is the tall grassy stuff in the front. I think that looks sharpe! Other than that I don't know either way. What are your plans for a forground plant? Sag? Going to keep things simple this time?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I definatly like the second one better though I am unsure about that red plant on the far right. Great looking tank though!

Plz stop shaming my algae ridden tanks

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

Gang,

Thanks for the input. I really was tired yesterday, and agitated, to say the least. I did not plan to spend another 7 hours on the tank. But once I started to weed out heavily invested plants one step led to the next and before I knew it the tank was pretty much empty again. I thought that I will use this chance to replant/reorganize the plant groups, as the previous layout could not be recreated because so many plants "had to go".

I will break down the tank sections into 4 parts and explain what went on in my mind and in the process of creating them.

Section A - Anubias Farm

First of all, based on previous suggestions, I decided to group the Anubias together. That in itself is a great idea, the leaf forest will serve as a great base for Espei breeding. So, I placed all anubias on a tray and started to trim off old leaves and in most cases also to divide the plants into 2 as the rhizomes where long enough to do so.
I removed the Anubias first from the tank (not knowing how long this all will take) and hours later, when it was time to put them back in, I checked on them for the first time since trimming.
I was in shock, half the leaves were rolled up and appeared totally dried out and dead. Later, after a while in the tank, most seemed to have recovered though. I tied the Congensis to a rock and placed that one close to the Star Grass as a seperator. Also, the tiny Nana Petites are tied to a small rock.
In addition, I added all my crypt types into this section. The Bacopa is there a a filler, it doesn't fit in but I need fast growers to re-establish the tank.

Attached Image:

Section A

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Section B - Main Group

This one was the the easy part, at least concerning the Star Grass as I was happy with it's placement. All plants in front of it were removed and I had to figure out what could go in their place. For one thing, I was able to remove the large rock that holds down the wood and replace it with a smaller one. The fern on the wood didn't look all that good in the leftmost position, so I placed it in the crack between wood and rock. That pretty much left me only with the Cyperus Helferi as a plant in front of the Star Grass.
Probably because it took so long for it to grow I simply could not let go of the Helferi. It got a 10 min bleach bath (19 water, 1 bleach) followed by rinsing and storing for hours in clean water (only a few other plants recieved leach baths, they were only dunked in bleach solution and then rinsed off).
Only after adding them back to the tank did I realize that the fuzz is still on them, but I was running out of time. The threads are white or gray and I am afraid that they still contain enough bleach to sicken anyone who may nibble at them.
The overall problem I have with this group is that it is too green. The leaf shape varies, that is good, but all are the same color.

Attached Image:

Section B

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Section C - The Valley

For this section I had a clear vision, Pearl Grass all the way from the back to the wood, in a sloping fashion. This was an idea that I had going for quite a while, I even suggested a similar approach to upikabu at some point.

Well, I did it and the problem I see now is that I don't get any depth perception of the slope. It looks flat. Maybe if I grow it even further to the front (really low there) then it may work better.

Attached Image:

Section C

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Section D - What is that?

This section is truely bad and a shame for this tank. I pretty much ended up there with all plants that I don't want to dispose off but couldn't fit in anywhere else.

The Red Rubin Sword was bleach bathed and heavily trimmed, the Alternanthera got a bleach bath too. I need to maintain the Ludwigia as a fast grower, maybe if it gets fuller and taller it will look nice there, don't know yet.

So basically, it is a mess.

And this is why I am not happy. You work so hard on this and the rewards are mixed, at best. It made me feel like I just don't have a good enough vision on how to plant a tank nicely.

Attached Image:

Section D

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Don't let your tank get you down. Its still a work in progress and its cool that you have the guts to try new stuff with your tank. Most of us don't want to don't want to change anything with our tanks. Myself I am dreading to my algae issues on my giant hygro. I guess the moral of the story is that things change, you change your mind and you can always change it again. Get on with it!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ingo, your tank looks great. You are too self critical - but then, most of us are.

Most of us don't want to don't want to change anything with our tanks

Wings is right, you always seem so keen get stuck in & try things in your tank, when others hold back. Sometime ago, you suggested I ask the planted tank gang in a thread, with a pic of my tank, for help to make it look better. Because I don't have the energy at the moment to rearrange, I havn't done that - I have held back. You wouldn't do that - you'd be in it straight away. (I want to sort out my C02 one way or the other first - then I come & ask for help). But you, you'd jump straight in. Good job on the replant. But then, it looked good to me before too.

Cheers
TW

Not quite sure I know where to start. I liked the tank after you added the wood, but I understand the mass wasn't there to continue.

I think right now you have to fiqure out how not to get into this situation again so the plants get destroyed.

Light, Biofilter, Fish Load, Plant Mass, C02, Nutrients
We need to find out the problem and then move on to the scaping.

My Scapes

Where the heck did you get the idea to give a 10 minute bleach bath ? 2 minutes will do it.

Don't worry about the white stuff it's dead algae. Won't harm anyone the fish will make a snack out of it.

Stop worrying full stop. This is supposed to be fun !!!!!

DO NOT DO ANOTHER MAJOR OVERHAUL LIKE THIS FOR A WHILE.iT'S UNSETTLING.

Ok. cap lock off.

Where did you get that much pearlgrass?

You're being hard on your self. A 125 gal is no easy job to scape.
You are on the right track big groupings of a few species is the way to go.The Anubias was a good idea to put together.

Again all that's needed is a big bunch of something dramatic Aromatica type plant.Behind the peargrass would be perfect. Fill out the front left with more crypts -plain old wendtii will do. Behind that some kind of filler like Cambomba to give some lightness. Then fill out the right side with something like Wisteria. I'm keeping to simple cheap easy to find plants to promote some stability. Around the wood and rock fill out with Wendelov Fern or NArrow leaf or more Anubias.

Keep the dosing routine simple and steady. Don't waver.

Fill out the plants as outlined above, keep the dosing steady, sit back and watch for a few weeks. Patience is key, it can take weeks for plants to fill out the way we want them to. Let them fill out with cheapies and fast growers so you can a feel for a full look and shaping. Play with shape of these til you settle on a look you like.

BTW those plants you got a few weeks ago you thought were Anubias - how they doing?

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

All - Thank you so much for the encouragement and constructive critzism, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I know that THE most important thing now is balance. I think one problem I created recently was letting the P drop too low (I know, I know, you told me so). I lost all Duckweed, none left, zip, nada, I take it as an indicator for a lack of P as it likes P (and high N).

Bensaf, as sad as it is, I kind of enjoy worrying, that's my nature . It keeps my mind busy and the job intereting. I am almost afraid that just sitting back won't cut it for me.

This doesn't mean you guys should stop helping me out when I am in dispair, please.

That much Pearl Grass? I even through some out. I will post a picture below, just before the current one (weekly update), that shows the tank front full of it all over the place.

I like the Anubias group idea as well, I just don't know if its execution was performed all that well. The "suspicious" Anubias from a few weeks back are still there and they are getting new leaves. I now assume they are Congensis as they look a lot like the ones I just got.

Filler plants for the time being: Good idea, I will just have to get them and find the time to put them in. We will see. I for sure will keep my dosing of ferts up, no reduction.

The front left contains Crypts, as you will see in a close-up shorly. So, on to the main topic.


Weekly tank update - Week 25

Almost all details have been discussed above, but here is a quick summary: Coming back from vacation I noticed that my CO2 ran out. This enhanced an already existing Thread algae problem and the week was used to discuss a possible cleaning/replanting effort. This has been done yesterday and the results, from a visual perspective, are mixed (you be the judge).

The postive highlight of the week was the trade in of 30 Espei as part of a payment for a pair of Apistogrammas. I love them and so far they are doing well in the QT.

Here are some pictures:

First the tank the week before the first major overhaul, in week 18. It was pretty jungle like and the overhaul was needed to retrofit the tankwith wood and to avoid overgrowing.

Attached Image:

Week 18

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now here is a picture of the tank from last weekend, week 24. As you can see (Bensaf), there are loads of Pear Grass growing all over the front of the tank.

They all come from one small batch that I purchased when I set up the tank 25 weeks ago. This plant is versatile, easy to replant, easy to divide, grows partially shaded, in summary a plant that I would recommed any time.

I find that this layout / growth did not give the tank any depth.

Attached Image:

Week 24

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now, the tank as of today - week 25

It looks much emptier, partially of course because I removed dying or bad growing plants like most of the Crypt Retrospiralis and Sags / Dwarf Swords. The plant arrangements are not really what I would like to maintain in the long run, but sentimental reasons (Helferi, for example) and fast growers (Bacopa, for example) led to this arrangement.

BTW: I counted 5 Otos this morning, so I take it they are doing fine.

Attached Image:

Week 25 - today

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the Anubias group:

The Nana and Barteri form the center, the Congensis on the right back and the maybe Congensis almost hidden on the left back. The small rock with the Nana Petite is in the front of the main group, flanked by Crypt Lucens and Lutea.

In itself this would for sure make a nice tank, like a 29G. I just don't know how it looks in conjunction with my other plants.

Attached Image:

Anubias Farm

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now here is a close-up of the green and red Crypt Wendtiis. I collected them from all over the tank, at least what was left of them, and placed them in one big group, rather close to each other to encourage growth (I think Wings suggested this at some point).

We will see how they are doing there, but traditionally I am not too successful with Wendtiis as they usually have one leaf melting for each new one in all of my 3 tanks.

Attached Image:

Wendtii Farm

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of two surviving Glosso stems. They made it all the way through the 2 major overhauls. This time though I actually removed them from the tank before vacuuming to make sure that they will survive.

I don't know what I will do with them once they should decide to take off again. I somehow like the open foreground. Maybe the next fish to get should be a school of Cories, I will have to think about it.

Attached Image:

Glosso

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now here is an interesting observation, maybe you have a similar experiece. The Rainbows and the Pearls like to "hang out" together, I would almost go as far as to say that they are schooling together.

This is in particular obvious since my rather brutal netting of the Espei in last weeks trade-in. Before that it seemed to mostly happen before feeding time.

Attached Image:

Pearl and Rainbow Gang

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now, this week cannot be complete without showing the Apistos again

They are truely lovely fish and I can only recommend them. It would break my heart if they would not make it in my tank(s). The initial aggression of the Platies towards them has stopped, the male is now clearly the boss in the tank.

Here is the female.She spends most of the time perusing the tank and nipping on plants and gravel. I don't know if she is going for small snails or plant matter. When she feeds on the surface it makes a clicking sound. Beautiful to watch.

Attached Image:

Female

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the male. He spends all day patrolling the tank and chasing the Platies, in particular after feeding when all the food is eaten. I wonder why he does that? I think he has colored-up even more and he for sure is nice to observe.

Both male and female are true stalkers. They swim up to something (like moss or gravel) hover for a second or two in front of it, and then they go in for the kill (or whatever they do there), really fast. The same can be said for their routine of surface feeding. They hover just below the surface, eye the food, and then shoot forward to catch it (with a click). Even without reading about it I can say that in nature they eat flies etc. that fall in the water.

Isn't he beautiful?

Attached Image:

Male

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gorgeous LF. Really gorgeous. Have you considered using your 20 or 29g as a breeding tank. Might be kinda fun?



My Scapes

Thanks tetratech

I first want to make sure that they make it though QT. My Rams also looked fine for a while, and then they died .

And if you don't tell my wife, maybe a commited 10G for breeding (at some point) might be appropriate. What I know so far is that there is quite some time invoved in growing out the fry. Also, it is virtually impossible to identify males and females for a long time. This would mean that you have to keep as many fry as you can to assure possible pairs later on.

So overall this would be quite a challenge.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thay are absolutely beautiful! I love the way he flares his spines in the pic of the male. Their behavior is typical cichlid hunting behavior I think as my krib does the same things. It's a delight to watch her picking around the tank. I love it when she jumps out from behind the main driftwood and lunges at one of the other residents, they flee madly away from her and she looks so smug, it's like she's playing a game only she can understand. They may eat bits of the plants but not destroy them. I feed algae flakes every now and then, it is good for the digestion. Most cichlids are omnivorous opportunity feeders. They are truly magnificent Ingo, I really hope they make into their final home with no issues, once there they will quickly become the rulers of their territory I'm sure.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I so have to get my hands on a couple Apistos. I was talking to my boss about it the other day and he said that I am better off trying to get them through the local club rather than him. He also said that they are hardier than Rams. I said cool man! Although I really do like rams too... I guess I will have to set up another tank sometime or change a tank over. I can see some problems occoring later on when I am married...

Oh my boss has gone on colecting trips to SA for discus because he used to breed them. I guess I will have to trust him on this one.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

There is one more thing I would like to share about the Apistos, especially the female. I swear I didn't tinker with the camera settings and the lens is reflecting what I see in the tank.

I had a feeling this morning that she is coloring up and then I checked again this afternoon. She is getting yellow, which - in terms of Apistogramma viejita - means she is getting ready. Wow, that would be almost too fast .

But see for yourself and let me know if I am fooling myself. First sequence is from the evening I got them, so 3 days ago. The middle one is from around 10:30 AM today and the other one is from a few minutes ago, so 7 hours later.

EDIT: It also appears as if the middle part of her caudal fin is growing back in already, nice.

Attached Image:

Do I see Yellow?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I see yellow!

Therefore you should come see my tank!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Not quite egg guarding colors, but getting yellower nonetheless. You'll know when she's getting feisty. Lovely couple LF, good luck with them. Breeding them in your water would be difficult though, I think it's a little hard? Acid Rain told me that the eggs harden if the the water isn't soft enough. A 50/50 RO/Tap combo would probably do the trick. I love apistos and other dwarf cichlids(look around at some nannacara sp.), they make up for their size with outstanding colors.

Can't believe you completely made over the tank again. This is the 4-5th time? Those plants must get tired of moving, I know I would. Looks nice every time, don't let any nitpickers tell you different.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

Thanks for the input

Yeah, I am getting tired of these major overhauls as well, although I think it is only the second time around that I removed almost all my plants at once.

I think I have actually very soft water, the one time I checked my GH I got a reading of 1dH (same as my tab KH), that is why I add the Seachem Equilibrium after each water change. So maybe there is egg hope in the future, although I am certainly not in a rush with anything. All I really want them to do is to survive happily

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

No phosphates ? You killed Duckweed, a plant that could survive a nuclear holocaust ? Where was all the "I have got a lot of P in my tap" nonsense we've been listening to for the last 65 pages ????

Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late

I have to agree the "execution" of the ANubias planting is not the best. Too flat. Get some rocks and tie/rubber band the Anubias on to crate some shape and a bit of mound. Or a bit of rock pile and use the Anubias to fill in cracks etc. You got fill that area with a real nice feature that would be almost maintenance free. It would make a nice playground for the Apisto's too

I know you have crypts on the left but add more don't wait for the existing ones to fill in. More, more. hat and the Anubias structure would fill out that side of the tank real nice. Very little work to keep looking good.

Those Apisto's have something in common with me - they get better looking with age

The after feeding aggression is normal for lots of fishes. After the initial feeding frenzy is over it's time to collect the scraps, lot's a fish will suddenly get territorial and chase away others to give itself a better chance of getting the scraps before anyone else.

They poke around the plants looking for things like snail eggs , hydra and other little micro-organisms. Great to watch.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late

Yeah, the loss of Duckweed is a miracle to me. Having kept up my dosing of N even with reduced plant mass, and having more fish (by growth, not number) should mean that N was not a factor. The only nutrient I tinkered with was P and I am rather certain that I did not let that one bottom out but more likely had it between 1 and 2ppm. But given that nothing else changed, that must have been it. Or - I see the Rainbows and Pearls occasionally nibbling on it and during my last overhaul about 5 weeks ago I did reduce the amount of duckweed so that only a handful remained. Maybe, just maybe, the fish ate more than the growth rate of the plant.

I will create a picture of an Anubias mount on the left of the tank later, and then talk about issues I could see with it.

Thanks for the info on the "after feeding" aggression and the poking .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wouldn't you know it...I went to work on Sunday and found a tankfull of awesome Rasboras. I took a bunch home. Gotta love how that works! Fish are awesome man, Tom hasn't shut up about them yet! Tank looks good too. Good call on the Apistos.

Its fun bringing fish home from Local breeders. Tonight I just brought home a BN from this guy that is older than dirts tank. He is thinking of pulling the female because he still has way too many of them in his 90G. I think he brought in about 100 of them and he said he has more where that came from....... Nice healthy fish though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Tainted Glory,

So you got some of my Espei, great . How many did you get? Glad to hear that Tom likes my fishies, I guess they sell pretty good then (if not snatched up by all the employees first).

Now you take good care of them as I had a rather hard time letting them go . And give me some updates on them once in a while, will you?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gang,

I would need all your brain power to help me on the Anubias Mount idea that Bensaf just recently mentioned. It makes perfect sense to me to have the Anubias in that arrangement, but I have quite a few issues with the actual implementation.

The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center, orange starts off low on the left and continually rises to the right to attach to the main Star Grass group. Here are a few thoughts:

- The main issue I believe is the water flow in the tank. The spray bar is on the top left side (horizontally) and the intake sits also on the left side at the back bottom. I am concerned that a mount right in front of the intake would create a rather strong current in that area. I also could see that such a layout would cut off the right side from the water flow completely.
- If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake?
- Keeping the overall structure in mind, would that create a nice horizon (light blue) for the whole length?

What are your ideas?

Ingo

Attached Image:

Some Options

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo after all the work you just did on the tank, are you sure you're ready to mess with the structure more? If so here's my idea for making the retreat for fry safe from the intake and keeping a nice horizon.
Here
It's in very bright colours but I think it's straight forward.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake?

Umm, do you want more Espei fry? It's also no guarantee that they'll breed over there, plus this isn't an Espei breeding tank, so i would'nt change the landscape around just to fit their needs.

As for the Apistos, if you want to make things nice for them to breed make a little bit of rock work on the far side of the tank, on the right. They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse. Besides, in order to survive with the pearls and rainbows they'll have to hang out in the undergrowth and not wander too far - by the time they're big enough to safely come out they should be strong enough swimmers

---

Back in the saddle!

luvmykrib - Yup, bright colored, but easy to understand . I was almost afraid that someone suggests this "change" as it was an option that I had on my mind but neglected to mention because of the work involved . Actually, I think this would be the best solution for all things considered.

NowherMan6, sure do I want more Espei . Didn't you see the entry above from Tainted Glory? He works at the LFS where I just traded my Espei. Imagine if I could get all future fish on a reduced price based on trade-ins.
And again, as I mentioned to luvmykrib , I thought that this is how it would have to be. Anubias on rocks to the right, doubling up as a breeding ground for Espei and Apistos. That may work.

It might actually not be such a mess to swap the 2 groups. All Amubias are sitting rather lose on the gravel at the left and most plants on the right can be easily pulled (except the Red Rubin Sword, that will be a little messy). At least the gravel does not have a lot of gunk on it as it had been cleaned very well last weekend.

In addition, I will recieve (I believe tomorrow) a plant order of:

Mother plant Green Wendtii
Mother plant Red Wendtii
A Few Stems of Ludwigia arcuata (Needle Leaf)
And for the fun of it - 1 Anubias pynaertii and 1 Anubias afzelii

I guess I will "park" them in the tank until I have more time to plant on the weekend.

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am glad you were also thinking of that suggestion, I didn't want it to come from left field but I think it will look quite nice when it's done.
I recently added the l. arcuata to both my tanks, it's a great plant with small needle leaves, the one in the 10 is shedding leaves as quick as it is growing new ones, but it is still growing and that's what counts, maybe keep it away from the current will help, and the one in the 25 looks great, it is a wonderful contrast to the lager leaves of the crypts and the nana it is beside. Too bad it doesn't come in red, it doesn't does it?
More anubias to fill in the mound? The more the merrier! How will you be able to tell them apart? Little garden tags beside each one? Can't wait to see them. Have you decided which rocks to pile together and how it may look when it's finished?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thanks luvmykrib for the info on the arcuata. I ordered only 4 and given the prize for it I assume it means 4 stems (I actually wanted to have another type of Ludwigia, but they were out of that one and called me to select a replacement, very nice). With such a small mass to begin with it will take a while before I have a needle forest .

Good idea about the plant tags, I am sure that it is only a question of time until I will have to look at photos on the web to identify which plant is what. Fortunately I am pretty good at adding the names of the plants I have to my profile, so at least I don't have to even search for that.

I have loads of rock of the kind that you see holding down the big branch. I simply assumed that I will go ahead and pile them up somehow, leaving small openings and overhangs for the Apistos and the Espei.

Do I know how it will look in the end? No clue . I think the one thing that stopps me from becoming a good scaper is the fact that I am rather bad at imagening how things will look like when all is said and done .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse

Yes that's really true the 2 times I did see eggs in my tank from my rams they spawned in two different areas of the tank. First time it was on the surface of a flat rock the 2nd time they spawned on the vertical face of one of the rocks making up the beachfront. So ya never know what they're thinking. Might be a coincedence but the 2nd time they spawned in the front the eggs never made it to fry. The first them I had about 100 fry, but you know the story from there............

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech, certainly an interesting observation. I hope one day I can report back on multiple spawning sites, but until then we have to hope that they make it though.

And tetratech, no comment on the desired Anubias mount? You currently are the man of the perfect layout, I need your advice .

Besides that, I am in love with a girl. Yes, besides my wife and daughter, I have a new girl. The female Apisto has taken my heart by storm. Just look at her development in only 5 days:

Attached Image:

My Love

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I can't see any problems with flow etc. Many people use big structures like this hide intakes etc. I know I do.

Take out the Anubias , get a few rocks and put them in and arrange, study, re-arrange 'til you are happy (late August 2012 is my guess ). You are not uprooting anything so it'll be minimal disturbance. If you like you rubber band select Anubias to the rocks, the rest can just be put in cracks or gaps (don't force them in).

I gurantee you'll be happy with the look. It's a very natural vista and it will help highlight and balance the more delicate lines of the driftwood.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Besides that, I am in love with a girl.

I assume your not like ther rest of us poor slobs and you go for personally as well as looks.

Unless you go saltwater it's tough to beat the personally and looks of the dwarf cichlids.

I have to go back again to look at the anubias situation. Remember I only had anubias once and I didn't like the way it looked in my setup.







My Scapes

LF,

Your fish is looking really nice. She must like you too. Well at least what you have given her.

As for the Anubias mound. Bensaf has already kind of said what to do. Just keep playing with it until you find something that flows for you. This will be easy for you to change and mess around with too. The one thing I would like to add though is to try using fishing line instead of rubber bands. It won't jump out at you as much. Just make sure to not tie it too tight and cut the plant.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

you go for personally as well as looks

Yeah, she seems to be very smart, well spoken, and displays great manners at the dinner table

Honestly, I thought these fish may be a little on the shy side first, but when they swim near the front glass they don't move away at all when I touch it. It almost seems as if they would like to come even closer so I can pet them (I think I lost it completely).

Wings - thanks for the info. I have gotten pretty good at tying things down with thread and I think I will stick to that method. And for Apisto food, appetizers are flakes and the main course is some freeze dried tubifex worms.

Speaking of Anubias (), I am currently paying the prize for letting them sit out of the water during the overhaul. As I mentioned before, various leaves did not like the hours in the air and started wo wrinkle up and appreared very dry. Most seemed to have recovered though, but a few are now displaying holes and missing pieces on the edges. Maybe during the creation of the mount I will cut them off, albeit they don't show signs of disintegration, just missing parts.

Speaking of mount etc., anyone has any idea where I would place the two Wendtiis (red/green)? I don't have them yet, but given the prize and description (mother plant) I expect them to be rather large. I for sure think that one will look very nice in the front left corner, but what about the other one? The mount in itself, I think I will first try to have it slope down from right to left so the height evens out with the Star Grass next to it (and I may put the Bacopa - currently all the way on the left - in between Star Grass and mount) going down to the left side. Sounds good? I am asking now as the plants will arrive today and I can see myself not being able to wait until the weekend to redo the scape, I just cannot resist .

Sorry about the long entry,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Long entries are cool but you better check the thread out about Flourish Excel. (someone is in trouble...)

So you know that you do not do will with Crypts so what do you do... get more of them.... just remember half of being smart is knowing what your bad at and staying away from it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

half of being smart is knowing what your bad at and staying away from it

... and the other 90% of being smart is learning from your mistakes and making it better the next time around .

Crypts are simply to nice to only try once. Although you are right and I had no success with them so far, I still managed to maintain some of them for one year now. They just never turned into anything and all just have a few leaves (new ones come, old ones melt). It may have to do with the fact that I divided the original plant way too early, just a guess.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center

I'm not following this anubias mound. You do mean mound right, because you keep saying mount (2nd language thing or typo?)

If I follow correctly an anubias mound on one side of the tank. Aren't anubias used scattered around a big tank to fill in between rocks, wood and sometimes other plants for contrast. Can't you make an "anubias playground" in front of the main rock/dw/stargrass area making it dense in the middle front then less dense as you move away from the middle.

If not enough space, you might be able to move the grassy plant in front of the stargrass into two groups that are left and right of the center with the anubias group sort o in the middlefront and blending into it.


My Scapes

mound - ah yes, that is what I mean, thanks

See, logically for me, a small mountain is a mount and not a mound. So where did the t get replaced with a d? That's the problem with English as a second language.

In front of the Star Grass group may be nice as well, you are right. But the tank is only 18" deep and I would have to build the group over the main flat branch it the front all the way to the glass. I think it will become very crowded there with this approach. Also, the Anubias leaves will lose their contrasting appearance with the overwhelming Star Grass behind it. I will take a closer look at this option tonight.

Otherwise, what do you think about a mound on the left of the Star Grass?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Otherwise, what do you think about a mound on the left of the Star Grass?

Personally I think it would look good if you did one on the right side as well. I'm not saying everything has to be symmetrical, but in this case I think it would'nt "flow" good to have anubias just on the left.

I think you also need to decide on your corners. You know you could lay those heaters down so you won't see them. You could also buy those hydor inline heaters and it will completely eliminate those two heaters in the tank.

I just think heightening the corners reduces your flexiblity and competes with the center. Unless your gonna build a back of varying height all the way across.

My Scapes

Hay, all these decisions

Unless your gonna build a back of varying height all the way across

That is pretty much what I have, isn't it?

Also, I think you may misunderstand the mound idea. I would like it to be really low on the way way left, rising towards the Star Grass. I could even go so far as leaving a few inches open all the way at the left and all the way to the back.

if you did one on the right side as well

Hm, sounds nice, but the downside would be that there will be not much space left for any other type of plant.

buy those hydor inline heaters and it will completely eliminate those two heaters in the tank

I actually have currently 3 heaters in the tank, two stealth at 200W each on the left and one regular with 300W on the right. If I am not mistaken then the Hydor have a max capacity of 300W. I would have to have a few in line (or parallel) and I don't know how feasible that would be.

Too many thoughts, "overload - Will Robinson"

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, when I look at your tank right now, I see mostly high center and high corners.

I think I understand the mound, but I guess I would have to see it with anubias only in one location. If it's a tank in itself with an anubias mound that of course we have seen.

Your right about the heater. I bet you don't even need the 300 watt visi-therm. I have one 250 watt stealth and I have absolutely no fluctation and I just went through a New York Winter. Actually if the mild winters keep up I'll have to get a chiller. You know they sell these regulators inline that chill and heat? I think you could fit a 6-pack in there as well.

My Scapes

Too many thoughts, "overload - Will Robinson"

So just to prove that I have some sort of reading issue. I read Will Robinson as Robin Williams.

Inline heaters? Sounds really sweet. tetratech. post a link!

I guess it is hard to see what you have in mind for the Anubias. Can't wait to see whats in your head.




55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Welcome to neurosis central folks ! Pull up a chair and grab a Prozac

Anubias are very very versatile. They can be used to fill gaps , make backgrounds, mounds etc.

Remember too that LF has some of the taller bigger varieties. It doesn't have to be a mound - it can be a peak if you want. Whatever rocks your boat. But whatever it is it can only look better then laying flat on the substrate, a waste of plant and space IMHO

Tetra didn't like the look of Anubias in his tank becasue he chopped it up into little bits and spread it around the tank in really odd places Thankfully he has learned to aquascape since then

Something has to be done with the left section it's a barren wasteland compared to the rest of the tank.

Ingo,
With the crypts if they fit I would put them altogether. I've mentioned before crypts always seem to do better when planted in groups. Individual plants always seem to be a bit wimpy.

A 6 footer is not easy to 'scape. I'm guessing that the best way to approach is take a small section perfect that and then see what will work best to flow away from there. Basically work your way from one side to the other.

I think the pile of rock with Anubias fronted by a thick grove of crypts would be real nice, simple but effective. The tall species like the Congensis are particularly suitable for this approach. It'll be darker there but that will offset the brighter stargrass even better.

How long is it going to take to temporarily rubber band a few Anubias to rocks and put in the tank and play around with it ? Stop pulling the last two hairs on your head out and get your hands wet

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Tetra didn't like the look of Anubias in his tank becasue he chopped it up into little bits and spread it around the tank in really odd places

If the plant can't stand being chopped up and put in strange places and positions then "GET OUT OF MY TANK"

It's funny I originally got that anubias for my 12gallon and it didn't make the cut in their either.



My Scapes

Gang,

Thanks so much for your input, but anything that came after Noon yesterday has not been read until all was planted . As such, the tank is yet again a product of my skewed visions of what may look good.

But first things first, the plants were already at home when I arrived, not too bad for having ordered them just the day before. Well, upon opening the package I was a little in shock. The order was a bit larger than expected, in particular the Wendtiis were huge and the Anubias pynaertii has a hight of about 18 inches. Also, I got 3 Anubias afzelii (ordered one) and 6 bunches of Needle leaf Ludwigia with 8 stems each. I think by now I can recommend this source of plants, I believe tetratech uses them as well - aquariumplants.com.

Attached Image:

New Plants have Arrived

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Next I had to wash them all. This took quite a while because the Wendtiis turned out to be multiple plants (5 green and 3 red), each encased with this nasty growing wool .

After cleaning I placed them all in the tank to avoid drying out (as happened last weekend to some of my Anubias) while I ripped out my last two hairs wondering what to do now (where is the smiley simboizing a bald guy? ). The big mount idea was gone very soon as I determined that it would take loads of rock to create any significant height (played with the rocks I have on the coffee table).

BTW, I was reading about Floating Meadows in TFH and somehow this arrangement just looks like one. The younger Espei really like zooming through these floating plants. Maybe there is an idea for the future or another hobbyist.

Attached Image:

Plants parked

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then it was time to take action, and boy it was almost another major overhaul yet again . First I removed all plants from the far right, except the Alternanthera. Here I added all 5 Green Wendtii in the midground and some pearl grass in front of it. Gaps were filled with Helferi and Retrospiralis remains.

Next it was the Pearl Grass valley's turn, out with all the plants. I placed some Helferi in the way back and a rock with the Congensis at the right of the valley. In front of that rock I tied my 2 mystery Anubias and my 3 new Afzelii to the rock that holds down the wood on the right. In the gap I placed one of the red Wendtii and another one in front of the Star Grass.

On to the left side. All Anubias Barterii and Nana out of the tank and back in, closer to the Star Grass group, with the new Peruensis in the back (tied to a small rock as it had insufficient roots to be stuck into the gravel). A Helferi and 2 smaller Retrospiralis are added for contrast. Then I regrouped my existing crypt plants (small Wendtiis, Lucens, Lutea) in front of it, the narrow leaf and needle leaf Ludwigias to the left, and one new red Wendtii in front of that group. Last but not least I filled gaps with small plants, mostly Pearl Grass.

So, 3 hours later- here is the result:

Attached Image:

New Tank Layout

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then it was time to close shop as I got tired and it was almost time for lights out in the tank. I fed the fish (they can also be seen eating on top in the full shot) and just enough time for one more picture from the right half of the tank, an attempt to show more detail. Then the lights went out in the tank and it was time to say good night.

Overall, as usual, I am not too excited with the results, but I am not disappointed either. The least I get out of this is a larger plant mass

Attached Image:

Right Half

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Pretty good work my friend. I like it. Did you about poo your pants after finding plants that look as large as house plants to go in your tank?

The one thing I sugest to you is move the grassy plants on the left closer to the center.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

LF,
I think you did a fine job placing the anubias in and around the wooded area in the center and spreading it out.
Have you considered adding some more rock work to the left and right of the center to hide some stems and give it more depth and take out the flatness. Nothing overpowering just accents, but it will give it more visual interest and blend it with the center.


My Scapes

...after finding plants that look as large as house plants to go in your tank?

I have to confess that I have never seen (in person) Wendtii this tall and full. This is a whole other plant than the tiny pieces that I have, and ever had. I knew I was getting a larger plant (mother) and as such the size did not really surprise me, but what did was the number of these plants (1 mother red = 3 large red, 1 mother green = 5 large green). In the end I am actually rather happy with their placement, for the time being , grouping all green was a good idea, but having the even larger red ones spread out seems to work as well as they connect the individual broad leaved Anubias groupings.

Have you considered adding some more rock work to the left and right of the center to hide some stems and give it more depth and take out the flatness

I truely ran out of time . I can't see any stems on the right, and on the left I only see the roots of the Anubias as they are not buried but places losely on top of the gravel, held down by the gravel that attached itself to their roots when they were submersed. I would have loved to try rockwork on the left, but time was short and the old man got tired .

I am currently waiting for Bensaf's report on the Ground Crew and that is one reason why I don't want to plant all the way to the front anymore. Other reasons are that it is easier to clean and that if intself generated more depth.

Thanks for the comments to both of you, as always it is very much appreciated,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now them are some Crypts. Love them.

I have to agree with tetra - I think you dd a fine job in planting them. Perfect. Is it just me or does the whole scape look more solid ? That's what I was trying to get at. You now have an anchor you can build around.

I was think the very same thing as tetra (fools seldom differ ? ). A few rocks between the Anubias and Crypts on the left, just accents maybe layer the Anubias just a tiny bit.

Great job.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Great job

Come on, you just want me to agree with you on your upcoming Ground Crew report .

Actually, the fact that I was not happy with the design but not horribly upset either indicated to me that it was pretty ok. I agree, the scape looks more solid and this is in most part due to the stretch of larger leaves all across the tank's width (I believe).

I hear both of you on the rocks. One also has to keep in mind that the Ludwigia family on the way left behind the large red Wendtii will grow significantly higher. So maybe the best way to include rocks in the Anubias section would be a U shaped layout where the left side guides down from the higher Ludwigia and the right side guides up to the higher Star Grass.

Thanks Bensaf,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

My money is on ground crew. I'll be making a post later on this very subject. Just need to prepare some pics.

A white paper on grounds crew dynamics. Oh this is gonna be good.

My Scapes

It is already out there tetratech (and all others),

Here is the link to it. It may explain why your substrate is so clean.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I finished off the tank last night and tried to rearrange the Anubias on the left with the help of some rock. After playing for about an hour, rocks in - Anubias on top - Anubias back off - rocks rearrange - and so forth, I decided on having only one rock on the way right of this group. That elevated the Anubias there and has the group sloping down to the left.

Then I added a little more Pearl Grass and my 5 Nana Petite that were still sitting in a bucket with water, and called it a night. Enough is enough

Here is the tank:

Attached Image:

Full Tank

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is now a picture just of the left side. I hope that the arrangement is even remotely what you had in mind when suggesting the addition of rocks.

BTW, not one Anubias in this group needed to be tied on as all have gravel on their roots that pulls them down. This made it a little easier.

Attached Image:

Left Tank Side

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is a close-up of my main log. As covered in algae as it is, it also has some beauty to it. If I could be sure that existing algae is not an invitation to disaster then I wouldn't mind this particular algae in only this area at all.

I think it makes it look very natural

Attached Image:

Algae Log

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And last, here is the middle section of the tank that (I hope) brings the sides together. I added a little more Pearl Grass in some spots and placed the Nana Petite in front of the log.

Could be a nice tank in itself.

Attached Image:

Center Area

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think you are on the right track with the Anubius but I think you need to make it larger. Maybe have it be more of a rounded structure.

I like the looks of the algae on the front log too! Natural looking. In the discus tank at work there is aglae growing on top of a peice of DW that actually looks pretty good. It has been there ever since I have started (about 7 months ago). When I started using Excel it started to go away but not that I am running CO2 on this tank its coming back. It is the only place in the tank that has it so I am not freaking out. Yet...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Man, I've been gone for awhile now. This is a very nice set-up (and the longest thread I've ever seen). One of these days things will slow down enough to where I can begin to get back into the hobby like this. Good work.

-Keith

http://www.ozarkgames.com

Keith,

Thanks for the input. I am flattered to have someone who hasn't been on FP for a while add his first entry into my log - and on top of it has something positive to say about my tank.

Thank you very much,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

be mindful of the future my young padawain, ()


kill the algea now or end up with a tank that looks like mine

OH TOLEEDY!

Hi,
I too had a piece of driftwood in my tank. It became
"encrusted" with hair algae and really looked beautiful
as the long hairs swayed in the currents. But, alas,
all was not well, and the "hairs" broke off and gathered
elsewhere on my plants, and soon the whole tank was
swaying in the currents. It took forever, and the removing
of the dirftwood for me to resolve the problem.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Looking really nice..love the drifwood

Robby

---

I know human beings and fish can co-exist peacefully.

Tanks to all 3 of you for the input and information regarding algae on the driftwood.

I did my water change today (photos and details will follow tomorrow) and used that chance to scrape off some of the algae. Not all is gone though, I may need a few sessions to get rid of it. This also gives me the chance to see if it spreads again.

A slightly troublesome development happened today in the QT. After the water change in that tank I noticed that one of the platies was breathing really hard. On closer observation it seemed that the fish was not able to close its mouth anymore at all. Also, some slight swelling up of the fish was noticable, like the beginning of dropsy.

It happened to be one of my original females that were added 7 months ago, I am rather certain that she must have been at least 1 year old because she was fully grown when I got her and had babies right away. I had to let her go .

I will keep an eye on the situation, all others are doing just fine. My concern, besides that there is a chance of an illness, is that the young adult male will terrorize the remaining females. He was already a pushy little punk before, but now there are less females for him to herass. If he gets out of control (and there is no sign of further illness) then I will move him into the 29G, here he has to stand his man in a crowd of larger Sunset males, they are going to show him his rightful place .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 26

The last week was rather boring, besides 2 events that are worthwile to be noted.

1) A new plant order came in on Wednesday and has been added to the tank, some re-arranging was required in the attempt to create some flow.

2) A side-discussion with Bensaf in another thread revealed that my addition of Seachem Equilibrium is rather insignificant. I forgot to read the instructions and basically added only enough to raise the GH by 0.17 dH . I measured my GH yesterday in the morning and I have to say that it was not easy to interpret the test kit. It seems I am having maybe 2 to 3 dGH, which in itself would be fine. After the water change I added double the usual amount of Equilibrium, I figure it cannot harm and I will see if things improve.

The replant from last weekend (major) is still having an impact on the tank. The fool that I am I forgot to suberse the Anubias for hours and I am still losing one or the other leaf. Even worse, my 10 minute bleach dip turned almost all Helferi leaves brownish. I assume I will have to remove them soon.

This week I am showing a series of pictures to demonstrate the change the tank underwent of the last 26 weeks. First, the tank when it was just set up:

Attached Image:

After Initial Setup - 26 Weeks ago

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is the tank 6 weeks later, in the meantime it underwent a Weed-Treatment to generate as much plant mass as possible in the shortest period possible to establish the tank quickly. Now the first attempts to scape have begun:

Attached Image:

Week 6

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

By week 17 the tank had grown into a jungle and it became almost impossible to maintain it at that stage. Plants were shading each other, the substrate couldn't be reached anywhere anymore (except for the areasin which the Glosso had been removed because it killed itself by being 5 layers deep).

In other words, a change was needed soon:

Attached Image:

Week 17

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And onl 2 weeks later the tank underwent its largerst overhaul to date, all but one plant had been removed and replanted, or simply thrown away. A major piece of driftwood was added in an attempt to improve on the scape, I think it was a good move although, once done, the tank still wasn't all that great.

Attached Image:

Week 19

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tank started to show major algae (thread) issues after this replant and the fact that I lost the CO2 for about a week while being on vacation made the situation even worse. Something needed to be done and I, once again, removed almost all plants and restyled the arrangement. Only the plants that had not too much thread algae on them were added back in, others were trimmed or discarded.

This left me with the lowest plant mass in a long time.

Attached Image:

Week 25

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And, as described in the update post above, I decided to add more plants for 2 main rasons:

- Mass
- Flow (design)

So far I find the layout pretty nice. Yes, there is room for improvement, but not right now. And if you compare the Star Grass in the last 2 pictures you will see that growth is good, in particular when I add that I had to trim about 4 inches of the top.

Attached Image:

This Weekend - Week 26

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here are just a few detail shots nothing much.

The first one is of the arranged - and rearranged - Anubias group on the left half of the tank. As you can see, it slopes downward from the Star Grass to the Needle Leaf Ludwigia. I may play with this group in the future, but for now I will leave it alone.

Attached Image:

Anubias Group

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a shot of my Nana Petite arrangement, not to creative, lined up in front of the main driftwood. I had a hard time trying to tie them to rocks and decided that for the time being they should be buried in the substrate. Don't worry, the rhizome is not buried.

I am very curious as to what these little buggers will turn into. Actually, I read somewhere that over time Nana Petites will start to develop larger leaves again as the dwarf gene is not persistent. Any info on that?

Attached Image:

Anubias Nana Petite

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One of the residents in the tank that is thriving on my algae supply. While I don't see them eat the longer threads, they for sure nibble on the young growth right next to it. I haven't been able to account for them all in at least 2 weeks, but I am sure that most of them are doing well.

Uh, this reminds me, maybe it is time now for some Amano Shrimp, what do you think?

Attached Image:

Oto

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And last but not least, the newcomers

It will be a few weeks (maybe 3 more) before I will add them, but they arereally beautiful. I guess I didn't do enough research before I purchased them as I basically accepted the fact that will have a dull female in my tank and the male's color will balance this out. I find her coloration just as attractive as his, and she is a feisty little fish.

And that's it for now,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Apisto viejita II - Pair

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
The board is quiet today,
Anyway what happened to this layout. I really liked the way you spread the anubias around. It appears to have changed with the new additions.

Still looks nice. I like the Nana Petite arrangement in front of the driftwood.

I have to ask this. What have you changed that you think will help with the algae situation this time around? More co2, anything else?

As far as shrimp go, make sure that the dwarf cichlids won't eat them. I thought I read somewhere that certain species might.

Attached Image:


My Scapes

tetratech,

Thanks for the input. To answer some of your questions:

- The Anubias are exactly were they were in the picture you showed, except that the group on the left is sloped and a few of the crypts in front of it (lucens and lutea) have been moved a little.
- To avoid algae I will keep my CO2 crancked up and the ferts as well.
- Thanks for the info on the shrimp. It was a thought that crossed my mind, but I thought that if they are ok with your Bolivians then they should be fine with the smaller Apistos as well. Guess that may not be true.

The only thing I did yesterday was to remove 3 male Platies from the QT. Nasty little buggers. I observed them chasing after the Apistos and attempting to nip their fins, even the male's . Off they went to the 29G. The rest of the day was pretty much commited to resting, as I got a cold

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Glad the anubias are still there, cause it looked nice.

Never saw the bolivans go after the shrimp, but you never know. It would be an expensive snack for those fish.

Do me a favor and put a lot of java moss in your tank so some apistos fry will survive and you could send some to live with Uncle Tetra

My Scapes

...you could send some to live with Uncle Tetra

Well, Uncle Tetra

Will do, but first they would have to breed for me, and then I would have to overcome the same hurdle than you with your Bolivians - how to manage to feed the fry. Time will tell.

Yeah, $5 per piece for a snack is rather expensive, I don't think I am willing to treat my Apstos that well. Ok, maybe for their birthday .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I've added a total of 8 shrimp to my tank since I started it.

3 Amanos/Yamatos
3 Ghosts
2 Cherries

The only ones I see right now on a regular basis are the Yamatos. I haven't seen a ghost shrimp in about a month so who knows. 1 Cherrie I removed to another tank and the other hasn't been spotted since I put them in. So there fate could have been old age, no3 levels or the became a meal.

My Scapes

tetra, have you ever seen your schooling fish pick on the shrimp, like the pencils or the cardinals?

---

Back in the saddle!

tetra, have you ever seen your schooling fish pick on the shrimp, like the pencils or the cardinals

I did see the cardinals go after a very small cherry shrimp, but they never made contact and might have thought it was a piece of food at first.



My Scapes

Excellent Good to hear...

---

Back in the saddle!

K, means no shrimpsters for me then, I guess.

Sad news, unexpectetedly I had to put one of my female Rainbows down. This is the first loss in the tank ever since the Otos were added months ago (and some didn't make it, as expected).

I came down to the tank this afternoon (sick-have a cold or something) and saw her swimming on the surface. Whenever she hit the current of the spraybar she was swirled around in it, showing that she has no strength anymore. Also, what first appeared as nicer than usual coloration turned out to be scales sticking out - dropsy.

I have no idea what the reason is, there are two thoughts (actually 3 - I describe the third later)

- replanting during the last week was stressful on her
- I cleaned the filter and on restart a lot of gunk was washed from the hose into the water. Maybe it is bad for fish and she ate it.

Third thought: She looked different from the time I got her. While the other 2 have a straight line from the mouth to the dorsal fin, she had a bend in it. Maybe she was misformed and as such couldn't function properly. I never thought much of it, until now. In the picture (not new) below she is on top and another female below. Any info?

Attached Image:

The top one died

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Sorry to hear about your DNR. I about lost one of mine last week. I had the lid off doing some work on the tank and one decided that it was a good idea to jump out at me. So I grab it and throw it back in only to have it jump out on the back side of the tank. Not good! Lucky it didn't land in the tank below. It would have become a snack. I had to move my book case to get to the thing but it seemed to be doing find a couple of days later.

As for what happened to yours I am not going to get into it because I am really bad at that stuff. So I will leave it at sorry.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

- replanting during the last week was stressful on her
- I cleaned the filter and on restart a lot of gunk was washed from the hose into the water. Maybe it is bad for fish and she ate it.

I doubt it was anything you did, like the two things above. If these things did kill the fish then it was on it's way out anyway. Not my area of expertise, but the fish does look deformed, which is not that uncommon with any animal that reproduces in large numbers. Most deformed/mutated individuals don't survive as long as normal specimans, unless it's to it's advantage, but we don't need to get into the whole Darwin thing.

My Scapes

tetra,

Thats the one of the few Darwinian things I don't mind so much

LF,

Ater looking at your picture again. The top fish kind of looks like a he/she. It has the more pointy nose of a male and the color of a female. Maybe that was its cause of stress.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks tetratech and Wings for the input.

I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that the shape of that fish was a little off, and Wings I had the same thought about the he/she thing, but I don't know if this is possible. I know that there are species with "males in hiding" that only show their true colors when they feel strong enough to compete with the other males (or alpha male), but I don't know it Rainbows are within that group. And even if so this should not have been a health issue then as it would be natural. I don't know.

Let's just hope that this is the last death for a while, nothing is more depressing in ones tank than fish death.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK GANG, I need some Apstio Advice

It all started yesterday when I was going to feed the fish in the QT. Usually, tapping the food container on the glass brings them all together to the front, even the Apistos have learned that by now. But, no sign of the female. I looked (just looked, not rearranged) all over the tank and started to feed when she appeared, I don't know from where. She is more beautiful than ever and has an orange included in her yellow coat now. Then, after an appetizer of flakes, I went back to get the freeze dried Tubifex worms, and again she was not to be found . She came then out from behind one of the pieces of driftwood and after eating some worms dissapeared to that area again. I lurked around the side of the tank and saw her hush into a little cave in the wood.

The same happened ever since yesterday, whenever I approach the tank she cannot be seen, but she comes out to feed and then goes back there. The male is his usual, no changes at all. I removed the backcover, but my head is too big to fit in the gap between tank and wall. I used a small mirrow and a flashlight. I held the mirror in the tank and used the flashlight to see what is going on back there - Too deep of a cave and too dark.

Do I have eggs back there for sure? She is not in hiding because of stress as she looks sooooo good right now. I cannot go out and buy liquid fry food just based on assumption as I wouldn't know how much and when to feed.

Any ideas what is going on and what to do?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

She might have eggs back there but cichlids can be wierd sometimes. My baby convicts either beg for food at the top of the tank or hide like they have never seen a big hairy faced balding stressed out soon to be married college kid before. The parents are the same way. Sometimes very personable others they act like they have never seen you before.

I wouldn't worry about feeding the fry right away if that is the case. They can normally fend for themselves really well for a while just on left over egg sack. If you do see some fry it might be worth getting some frozen baby brine shrimp to feed them though. My baby convits grew much faster than normal when I was feeding them that.

How is the male looking? No extra color or anything? Agression?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings,

How is the male looking? No extra color or anything? Agression?

Fine, No, No.

This are the quick answers to your questions . This is what throws me off, as I would have assumed him to be more aggressive with eggs around. On the other hand, I read that it is the female that protects the edds/fry and the male is in charge of territory (which by the way is supposed to be larger than the 20G QT).

I will have to keep an eye open for any tiny fish that may stick its head out of the wood cave at some point. If they stay in the back of the cave then there is no way for me to tell.

Anyone has any idea of how long the incubation time for Apisto Eggs is?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Anyone has any idea of how long the incubation time for Apisto Eggs is?

It's probably a few days, before they become wigglers. As someone mentioned they probably wouldn't need food for at least a few days after they hatch because they have the yolk sacs. Funny thing is my two rams have disappeared over the last few days, but there is so much density in the tank I'll probably never find the eggs and I can't go behind mine.

When my rams spawned the first time they laid the eggs on a piece of petrified wood and then they dug a borrow in the substrate and moved the egg/wigglers in there?





My Scapes

LF,

No experience with apistos, but that sounds like pretty standard dwarf cichlid breeding behavior. There's no other reason for her to not come out and beg for food. They may eat the first batch themselves, it may take them a while to "Get it" I wouldn't go crazy about this batch... but I guess this is why when people breed them intentionally they just tanks without a lot of clutter so you can actually see and feed the fry etc.

---

Back in the saddle!

Thanks you two for the input

Yeah, I guess there is not much I can do than wait and see what will happen, but you know how it is.

I nearly broke my neck yesterday when trying to get a closer look into the cave .

Guess I will have to get the goggles out and take a head dive into the tank. I wonder what the fish would think about that .

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I would get with tetra before you take your dive! He has the head gear you need!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Someone call for the Fishgeek



Attached Image:


My Scapes

LF,

By the way, was the LFS you sold the espei to AF? I saw some very VERY healthy looking "tank raised" rasbora espei the other day...

---

Back in the saddle!

Yup NowherMan6,

That may have been mine

Did ya buy any?

And tetratech - we (NowherMan6 and I) cannot afford such a sophisticated head-stander to do our dive chores .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And tetratech - we (NowherMan6 and I) cannot afford such a sophisticated head-stander to do our dive chores

Yeah, I'm usually hired for only really big tanks:



Attached Image:


My Scapes

I about choked on my food!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Caption for this photo:

"While everyone else enjoyed a pleasant lunch, tetratech proceeded to stare off into the distance, snapping back into consciousness only to drink his saki through his special blue Fish Geek straw."

---

Back in the saddle!

Feels like the good old days are back.

But you know, he was really there, he even visited the ADA site.

Attached Image:

Tetratech at ADA

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What is the ADA? It looks sweet!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wow, now that you mention it LF, he seems to be popping up all over the place. Why, this evening I was looking through an old history textbook and I came across a picture with a familiar looking guy in it...

Wait, wait... oh my... is that... yes, yes it is! Tetra that's you! I didn't know you were one of Teddy Roosevelt's rough riders!!



Attached Image:

---

Back in the saddle!

The caption to that picture read:

"Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders were also the first Unit to train in modern warfare, although Corporal Tetratech's goggles and snorkel didn't proof effective agains chemical agents, even when wearing them 24/7"

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Man this is cracking me up, made my day.

Of course I couldn't resist

Caption ? -

"Darn, how does he get that Wallichii so pink?"



Attached Image:

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Yeah, I don't know if tetratech anticipated this when he started this section.

But he is looking pretty good for someone who seems to stick his head all the time in everybodies business, eh - tank.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK, last one, I promise...

"LF introduces his new fish, the Dwarf Neon Tetratech"



Attached Image:

---

Back in the saddle!

Sadly it all came to end today for tetratech. After pursuing him for days, tetratech was arrested. The charges included breaking into Amano's house, stealing from ADA, impersonator a rough rider and wallichii abuse.
They are still looking for his accomplish LF, for his part in the dwarf neon tetratech fish scandal.





Attached Image:


My Scapes