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Producing eggs then?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
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Perhaps, but in general, they are already likely quite wide. As with all loricariidae, they reabsorb any eggs not laid.

very interesting!

So LF where are the weekly pictures??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I have been thinking about the P issue. Here's my thought, excess P and low light, no CO2 may cause BBA, it has in my 10g. In Ingo's tank, excess P and high light and CO2 cause...flowers! In terrestrial plants, the nutrient that encourages blooming is phosphate. Nitrogen makes things green, phosphate makes things bloom and potassium makes roots grow. How different can aquatic plants be from that?
Anyway, now that it is out of my head and here in print I can get some other deep thinking done. Like why no-one has visited me in my thread lately, it's so lonely there.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Here's my thought, excess P and low light, no CO2 may cause BBA,

Low Co2 and unstable (either high or low) Co2 will cause BBA. In a non Co2 injected tank , water changes will provide the unstable Co2 levels.

Never known P to have any role in the appearance of BBA.

KH, lots of mulm will have a bigger role. BBA is very good at grabbing the small amount of carbon it needs from carbonate and organic matter.

Algae seems to be lousy at using inorganic sources of nutrients such as that in the KNO3 and KH2PO4 we use.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Taken from a page on Chuck Gadd's site, courtesy of the link Ingo posted.

Red algae: Also called Black Beard Algae (bba), or Black Brush Algae. Short hairs (1/4" long), closely packed together. Appears dark green, black, or dark red. Grows on plant leaves, and sometimes on decorations/substrate. Often grows all around the edges of plant leaves.
BBA thrives in situations of high phosphates. Phosphates come from fish waste, excess food, and occasionally will be present in the water supply. The best way to eliminate BBA is to let the plants out-compete the algae for the nutrients.

In heavily planted tanks, BBA will often show up when the plants have used up all the nitrates. This causes plant growth to slow or stop, which leaves the excess phosphates available to the algae. By supplying extra Nitrate to a planted tank, we allow plant growth to continue until all phosphate is consumed. Then plant AND algae growth will slow/stop. As long as a usable (5-10ppm) level of Nitrate is maintained, the the plants will continue to use up the available phosphate, effectively controls BBA and other phosphorus-dependant algaes. See the article "Adding Nitrate to a Planted Tank" for detailed instructions on how to increase your Nitrate levels.

Thus excess of P will cause BBA, when there is not enough nitrate. I added both nitrate and phosphate together and now have BBA in my 10g tank. This tank has no CO2, has 1.5 wpg, and is pretty fully stocked. There was no BBA before the addition of the NPK. My 25 on the other hand has .5ppm of P, better light, 2.5 wpg, CO2 at a steady level and no BBA.
But really, my idea was more that Ingo seems to get flowers more often than anyone else and it could be the P that is making it happen. He must have a good balance of nutrients including P to make the plants bloom the way they do. Have to admit I'm jealous and am starting to beg my anubiuas to put out even a little flower!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

speaking of flowering plants. I have had two crypts flower at work. All I give them is some excel every other day.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I knew someone else had them flower, couldn't remember who. What's the PO4 level in your tanks that have had flowers? Any idea? It's just a theory based on what I have learned from gardening, I thought I would put it out there and see if anyone could absolutely rule it out. Finding the right balance and maintaining it would be a trick, although I don't worry overmuch about my land plants, they flower for the most part, but lawn grass can be brought into bloom by adding fertilizer with more P in it, fall fertilizer generally has more k and spring fertilizer has the most N.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I have no idea how much P the tanks at work have in them. I only way they are getting it is from fish food because I don't thing the kool steril system lets that through but i could be wrong.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Fish food, fish poop, are just 2 ways of P getting in, water changes if it's in the water supply is another way. Generally store tanks are overstocked and over filtered to compensate, but they must still get some P build-up, I don't think UV gets rid of it, but I could be wrong on that. My water supply from the city goes through UV and it still gets to me with a hardness of 300, and who knows what else.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

UV generally removes only organic contaminants such as bacterium. Hardness salts should remain unaffected.

Does it also remove phosphates?


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Not that I'm aware of.

Thus excess of P will cause BBA, when there is not enough nitrate.

Next time you read the article, check when it was written

It's old stuff. A lot has changed, our knowledge has increased since then, mainly due to the testing of some the more experienced guys.

These kind of aruments were the kind of thing that started the "excess nutrients myths". Lot of people concluded P caused algae therefore P is bad.

In a case as described above the stalling of plant growth due to the lack of nitrates will cause the algae - nothing to with P. The algae would have come whether the P was 5 or 0.5ppm.

To stop BBA in a non Co2 tank don't do water changes or use Excel.

Or if you don't believe that try adding N, NOT elimating P,and see if that helps !Bet it won't. In which case that theory is down the drain. You can test these thu=ings yourself if you're willing to play with a tank.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi,
My only comment is to mention that a UV system will not
remove anything. It will kill anything alive that passes
through it. Parasites, live algae spores, etc. It is a
sterilizer, not a filter.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Little_Fish?

Where are you?

Hope you're well!

You're falling down on your 10 posts/day!

Please come back!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Hi,
Didn't he say something about hurting his back shoveling
snow?
I too hope he is doing ok.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Yeah he did a while back. No pun intended.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Nah, he probably pulled his back messing around with the driftwood and rocks in his tank.

Geezer.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty

Well, I am back now.

I couldn't stand the look of my algea anymore and treated myself (and the family) to another view.

I have to read all new entries in this and the other threads before I can make any fish related entries, I only came back early this morning and haven't even seen my tanks yet.

In the meantime, enjoy the view

Attached Image:

The Really Big Tank

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Welcome back, Ingo! We've missed you.
Glad you enjoyed yourself while we're messing with our tanks.
Did you see any algae in that big tank?

-P

Thanks upikabu,

I am sure there is algae in the really big tank, but it fits right in

On the other hand, I am already in PANIC MODE again. I checked on the tank a few minutes ago and found loads of thread algae on many leaves and all over the wood and rocks. All fish seemed to be doing fine and it took my a while to see what was going on:

My CO2 bottle is empty

And that on a Sunday . I have no idea when the bottle ran out. I for sure did not see a low meter reading before I left. Grrrrrrrrr

I will do a large water change later and supplement with Excel until I get a new bottle.

So much about a happy return

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo,

First things first, - Welcome back. I think I could speak for everyone that you were missed.

My CO2 bottle is empty

Your not going to believe this, but my bottle ran out yesterday and I never noticed the high pressure gauge was down. I'm running on fumes and still have a small stream coming out of my diffusor.

So since we started our tanks I believe at the same time I guess I could conclude that I've been running more co2 than you based on the 50+ gallon difference in our tanks.



My Scapes

tetratech,

thanks for the warm welcome , I had FP withdrawal symptoms for the first few days of vacation, but then I got used to the fact that snorkeling and staring at fish from the dark side is fun as well.

Yeah, you sure must have been using more CO2 than I did. I am kind of glad to hear that your bottle is going on empty as well. I was thinking that my regulator might be broken, but if yours is down too then the likelyhood that I just ran on empty "naturally" is pretty high.

Here is a full tank shot. The Star Grass and the some other plants don't seem to mind the thread algae and the lower CO2 values, the Macandra is near death.

Attached Image:

Full Tank, no maintenance yet

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Tank looks pretty darn nice from that distance. It's hard to believe there are issues. I know it's fun to grow different species, exotics, etc, but it's the tank that's important, so don't drive yourself crazy trying to keep one species. As I've said before you can't be all things in all fish and plants.

BTW - I forget is there any preparation when disconnecting the co2 tank for refill?


My Scapes

Hi,
Welcome back...

SOME PEOPLE have ALL THE FUN!

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

tetratech,

You are right (as usual, or at least as very often ), I shouldn't drive myself crazy. The problem is that there are threads now all over the place and I only can hope that they will dissapear by themselves once the new CO2 bottle is hooked up and all can balance out again. BTW, I cannot get a bottle until tomorrow evening, the earliest.

About preparations: I don't think so, just close the old bottle and unscrew it, hook up the new one as if it would be the first time setting it up. Meaning, blow out the bottle a little first, then screw the regulator on (with the white tape), make sure all valves are in the right position, and open the main valve. That should be it.

I will go and do the water change now, maybe I try to remove some old leaves. I for sure have to trim the Star Grass and maybe also some Pearl Grass, although I might keep that one long just to have enough settled plant mass in there for the time being.

Ingo

EDIT: Frank - Thanks

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Any bubbles coming out of diffusor at all. I still have a small stream even though my pressure is gone, I guess that's normal with gas. If you have nothing at all it might have run out before mine or it's not strong enough to make it thru the reactor. Do you have any bubbles in the bubble counter?

My Scapes

tetratech,

I got nothing, zip, nada

I guess that means that it started to run out as soon as I left a week ago .

I am in the middle of the water change now. I did a major trim of the Star Grass, actually a replant of tops and disposal of the bottoms.

Back to the Python

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the update. I haven't even started my WC yet.
At least you have excel. I don't have any although I just placed an order from bigals for a 2 liter bottle that should be here by Tuesday. I also ordered some Flourish Iron to see if it brings out the reds even more.

So as far as the co2 canister I guess you close it and take off the regulator.



My Scapes

Ingo - you left CO2 on while on vacation? You must be braver than I thought, considering the problems Bensaf mentioned before when he left his CO2 on while away. Did you reduce the lighting or duration? How about ferts?

-P

You must be braver than I thought

Yeah, I am a brave man .

No, I actually have a neighbor who's son watched over my tanks while I was gone. I premixed macros, readied a bottle with micros, pre-dosed food, and gave him exact instructions (written down) on what to do with what tank when. All was thought out, except that I may run out of CO2 . There was nothing the neighbor could have done as he only has experience with low tech tanks and I was not easily reachable anyways. Tough luck I say.

Anyway - Weekly Tank Update - Week 24

As has been mentioned in this and a few previous posts, I have been away for a week and ran out of CO2. This was all the invitation the algae needed to really settle in nicely, I hope it will go away after all parameters are back in sink again. If I would have to remove all infected leaves then the tank would be pretty empty now. All fish have survived my absence, at least the ones I can count (Otos, Rainbows, and Gouramies).

During the maintenance I replanted the Star Grass, it got way too big (see picture a few posts up) and I replanted the tops only. Otherwise I didn't do any trimming, even if the Pearl Grass is getting too big as well. I don't want to have too many plants not being settled at the same time.

K, here is the full tank after it was replanted in the current format, on week 19:

Attached Image:

Initial Current Setup Week 19

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the tank after today's water change and maintenance. I supplemented with Excel to have at least some carbon in the tank until I can get a new bottle (hopefully tomorrow evening, if time permits).

Note the Macandra to the right of the wood group. It is really pale (unlike the Alternanthera) and any new growth that started in the last two weeks (sideshoots on main stems) is withering away as well.

Attached Image:

Tank Today - Week 24

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thread Anyone?

Here is a close-up of some Cyperus Helferi leaves covered in thread algae. This is pretty much like the whole group looks like and various of the other plants as well.

Darn

Attached Image:

Cyperus Helferi Thread Algae

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Or how about a nice rock covered in threads?

Also, note the beautiful BBA on the Sag at the left side. BBA is seen in various parts of the tank, but mostly on leaves that are on their way out, like on Sags and Crypt Retrospiralis. These two plant types have not taken the replanting 5 weeks ago too well. Some seem to recover, others just hang in, while the rest is withering away.

Attached Image:

Algae Rock and Narrow Leaf Sag with BBA

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF, sorry to see all the problems. Where do you go from here? I know you had algae problems before you went away, but do you think the lack of co2 made it worse in that period of time?

My Scapes

Where do you go from here?

No idea

Well, I first will try to see if cranking up the CO2 (once I have it) will help. If not then I guess I will have to order quite a few new plants. And I guess that would mean that I have to start over yet again, and I am really not into that at all.

I think that the existing algae really profited from the CO2 running out, with as you say "all that light" and the nutrients being available. Under these conditions I can imagine that it had a feast and that a few days were enough to create the current situation. Let's see what the Grand Master has to say about this .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The interesting thing is that we both dispensed about the same amount of co2 over the same period of time and your tank is considerably bigger than mine. Now the only algae I really have is some BBA, which supposely is known to happen in low co2 situations. If that is true, then I must turn mine up even higher and you my friend must get a second cansister.

The fish never gasped

My Scapes

BBA, which supposely is known to happen in low co2 situations

I'm starting to question the validity of this hypothesis in CO2-injected tank. In my DIY CO2 injected tank, the only spot where I've seen BBA growing is on an area of the driftwood that's directly in the path of the CO2 bubbles being spit out of the diffuser. Therefore this spot should have the highest CO2 level in the entire tank. I'm starting to think that the reason for this BBA growing there is not necessarily the lack of CO2, but more the unevenness/fluctuation of the CO2 level in the area (as you know, in DIY CO2 the output of CO2 is not constant). If that's true, then in a pressurized CO2 injected tank I would expect BBA only in spots where the level of CO2 varies greatly (e.g. where water flow is restricted).

Too bad I can't test this as I don't have a CO2 tank.

-P

upikabu,
I could tell you in my tank 99.9% of the bba is on nongrowing surfaces, but it doesn't seem to matter where these are located in terms of flow and co2 dispersion. Some of the surfaces are right in the flow of the co2 others are at the far end of the tank.

I have followed several threads about bba where aquarists complained that the bba was worse where they had something (dw, rock) directly in the flow of the co2.


My Scapes

Tetra - that's interesting. Perhaps the junk/dirt that gets collected on these non-growing surfaces plus CO2 make perfect breeding ground for these protists. Well at least they're easier to remove when on driftwood/rock. Gave my fingernail a workout yesterday removing those b*****ds - it was disgusting.

-P

Well my main worry was that with algae already there that if the Co2 was off for a week it would flourish. I didn't know you're arrangement for while you were away and was assuming you'd switch the gas off.

As to the tank emptying - maybe a bit of oversight on your part ? When full the high pressure gauge will read about 900-1000psi. When the liquid Co2 in the tank is depleted this will start to drop and you are just left with gas in the tank. BUT you should get a week to two weeks between this and the tank totally emptying. I would have to assume that the pressure was already dropping before you went away but you hadn't noticed. I doubt there was a ytank dump when the pressure dropped as all the fish would be dead.

Anyhows, what to do now. You get the gas up and running and things back in line, while that should stop further algae growth it won't do much for the algae that's already there.

It will have to be removed. If it's too much to trim all it off. Then possibly a bleach dip on those plants you want to save. Not sure if Excel works on hair/thread algaes ? Not sure if a 3-day blackout would do it either. Maybe somebody will have some experience.

As for the Macrandra, well lets have a little pop quiz to see who has being paying attention in class

You've got a Reineckii that was wimpy and weak for a long time and is now big and bold. Macrandra has gone from a deep red to a very pale color.
What does that tell us ?

Use of test kits is not allowed

Simple observation only.

As for the BBA. Upi is close. It's not low Co2 per se. In a non injected tank not doing water changes is a way to control BBA by keeping the Co2 constantly low. Unstable Co2 is the main cause. Co2 rates going up and down (below the 30ppm level) will do it. Mulm is also a big factor in BBA as they are good at snatching carbonate from rotting matter. So the mulm and dirt trpped under and around wood and rocks may be a factor.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Red plant turning pale, Either lack of iron or too much Nitrate!

Did I get it right??

LF! Your alive and you went and had fun in the big tank! Nice picture BTW. How's the back? That thread algea is everywhere isn't it? I think I would freak if that happend to my tank. I think I had that in my tank for a little bit early on. I gave it about... well lets say probably way way too much excel and it turned red and went away. (is it posible to over dose excel?)

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

BBA. the demonic hellgae.

________________________________________________
I like Led Zeppelin.

Red plant turning pale, Either lack of iron or too much Nitrate!

Did I get it right??

You're close. But you are only looking at half the equation. The paleness of the Macrandra. How does that tie in with the improvement of the Reineckii ? Narrow it down.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ok I just did a little cheating and googled it.

I am going to add in lack of Micros and maybe not enough light (being shaded?)

http://www.tropica.dk/productcard_1.asp?id=032

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Nah, you're getting further away now.

I'll wait for a few of the others to chime in before I give (what I feel to be) the answer.

There's an important lesson to be learned here. I'm always babbling about watching the plants, not the test kits.

That pic with the Reincekii and Macrandra tells me a lot about what's been going on the tank. It also, I'm pretty sure, giving a huge clue as to why the algae re-appeared.

But I'd prefer you guys to figure it out for yourself.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Oh Mr. B, you're such a tease!

My guess (never having kept either plant) would be too high nitrate (too many espei ) coupled with low PO4 (hence the paleness). I heard high nitrate could stunt macaranda. Reineckii must like the high nitrate and can tolerate lower levels of PO4. But low PO4 = thread algae or high NO3 = thread algae? My guess would be the latter or combination of both.

-P

Ok no more teasing then !

I don't like the phrase "too much nitrate" or "too high nitrate", btw. It's relative.

The changes in the plants tell me that previously the N was too lean and the phosphate high (just high NOT too high). This may have been well and good for the Rotala but not so good for the others, as signified by the poorly Reineckii. Increasing nitrate suited the Reineckii and caused the Macrandra to lose color. It may be a little too rich for the Rotala if growth is now stunted or that could just be the effect of the lack of Co2.

Does this mean the N is now "too high" , well not IMO. The algae is testament to that. Remember the algae started before the Co2 ran out, that's just complicated matters. MAcrandra is picky. It's a great indicator for an aquarium but can be a PITA to keep happy. There's a choice to be made, keep conditions suitable for the Rotala and risk problems with everything else or run rich and risk the Rotala being unhappy? I know what I'd choose.

Pages back I said that staghorn was an indicator of low macros. The changes in these plants tell me that N was running too low for a long time. To me that indicates why the staghorn re-appeared.

So in summary N was too low and P was not a factor.

If the reineckii was stunting for lack of N then I'd be sure while the other plants weren't showing syptoms as clear cut they probably weren't growing 100% - they were being limited. Now that's a gap that will let algae in.

Remember it's not fast growth it's non-limiting growth.

That's what one pic and the difference in 2 plants tell me about what's going on.

Watch the plants, folks, trust them. Sod the test kits. Listen to what the plants are tellin' ye, put your pre-conceptions and assumptions aside. They'll tell the whole story.

And to quote one of my boys -don't micro manage your macros !!!!

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

And to quote one of my boys -don't micro manage your macros !!!!

Oh, go on, your making be blush.

One thing I don't see mentioned alot (unless I've missed it) is people increasing their ferts as the plant mass in their tanks mature. Just because you were dosing 1/2 tsp no3 when 2 months ago does't mean it's enough now with the density of plant mass increasing.

Believe me all is not bliss in my tank. I do have bba and I noticed my Rotala Wallichii is looking kinda pale and thin.

My Scapes

Welcome back LF! Could you post your really big tank pic in my I'm cold thread in the recovery room? We've had a ton of snow over the past few days, it's nice to see somewhere warmer for a change. It must have been nice to get away, but not nice to come back to that! My filter went off when I went away last year and that wasn't a good thing to come home to, then at Christmas I had everything ready in case it happened again and one of the barbs died and was floating when I got home, I have to show her where the nets are so she can take out dead fish! Which brings us to now, the tank is still looking great from a distance, all the fish were looking active as well, they seemed to weather your absence alright. I'm sure once you get the ferts and CO2 levels back to where they should be then everything will settle down again. I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of the stuff growing in my tanks, the only conclusion is more plants, more ferts and better light (for the 10) and more plants and more ferts for the 25. I've got BBA, staghorn, thread, BGA you name it it has reared it's ugly head in both tanks. From what bensaf has said I think my N and P are too low, my CO2 is probably too low, but out of my control, the only thing I have in good amounts in the tanks are micros, and light on the 25 is good, could be why the algae in that tank is there, the plants aren't using the light available. So UI'm asking here cause he won't come to my thread and share his sage advice, probably tired of my denseness.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Man,

Coming back from vacation is no fun. All the work that piled up at my desk is still there .

As such I have only a few moments here and there to look into FP and maybe write an entry or two.

Bensaf - That's what I was going to answer for your pop quiz . Seriously, I figured it cannot be a lack of Iron as the Alternanthera would not be so read either. But, I have to say that the whole N / P think is still a little murky to me, although I understand what you are saying.

The Rotala started to do bad as soon as the last major replant happened. It never settled in anymore. It had been through many different tank params in the past as it was added to the tank at the get-go, so it successfully survived much greater imbalances (that for sure were there).

The Alternanthera has been in the tank just as long and never showed a sign of significant growth until the last major change. So it too has been through all kinds of mis-fertilization attempts.

tetratech - Although I hear your message about "increased mass requires increased ferts" as well, I have to say that my plant mass decreased during my last major change by about 50%

luvmykrib - I promise I will take a look at your log when I have a little more time . What did you do to the guys that you assume they don't want to create entries in there ?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

tetratech - Although I hear your message about "increased mass requires increased ferts" as well, I have to say that my plant mass decreased during my last major change by about 50%

Well I knew you were gonna say that, but weren't you experiencing thread and other algae problems prior to your extreme makeover. When your plant mass was at it's heaviest. Ingo not picking on you just creating discussions in general for myself to ponder as well.

I know you reduced alot of plant mass when you added the dw, but I'm not 100% sure that's the same as starting a tank with immature cuttings that have to be acclimated before they start taking up nutrients. Also does the biofilter simply take in nh3, if not then the bioflter grows bolder and hungrier as well as a sucker of nutrients. There are also cases I believe where the biofilter uses nitrate if the o2 content is low. Let's asume bensaf's right and the no3 ran low. It might have happened when the plant mass was at it's greatest (doesn't that start the process of algae coming in.) Things aren't instanteous or black and white.

Believe me the algae (algae genes, spores) are in the tank. They are knocking on the door constantly we just have to get damn good at never letting them in.

My Scapes

Ingo not picking on you

I know that tetratech, didn't mean to create the impression that I feel picked on, as I am not .

Well, one thing is for sure. I know now why you called me brave when I decided to pull through with the major overhaul, you must have foreseen the things that happened afterwards .

Whatever it is/was that caused this mess, let's hope we get it under control. I will get a new bottle of CO2 tonight and crank it up like a madman .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I know that tetratech, didn't mean to create the impression that I feel picked on, as I am not

You didn't. I just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking that and I do understand the second language think so don't worry in the future as well.

Whatever it is/was that caused this mess, let's hope we get it under control. I will get a new bottle of CO2 tonight and crank it up like a madman

Almost makes you want to setup an experiment tank and try stuff. Could be in my future, but haven't been able to even get the cichlid thing going yet.

I might even bump my co2 up slightly. Think about it, your tank is about 40% bigger than mine we both used approx. the same amount of c02. Unfortunately it's not a clean comparsion because of all the other variables, but you have about 40% more water to diffuse the co2 into, you also have more light and more mass and you were dosing more ferts, so it stands to reason the plants need more co2 then mine. My fish were never gasping, but I do have BBA. So you might have been really under on the co2 unless your reactor was so much more efficient.

EDIT: My unprofessional advice, when you refill the cansister and start these increased co2 dosing, start off slowly and work your way up over a few days. "Small moves, Ellie, small moves"



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Small moves, Ellie, small moves

CONTACT!

One of the most disappointing movie scenes ever, when she finally sees the alien. Why couldn't she fight it or something, or perhaps make the alien talk in backwards english like Yoda. Ah, I'm just rambling - I was a teenager when that came out, my list of priorities of things I wanted to see in movies was much different back then.

Aaaaanyway, as for LFs reactor - when i had that set-up I remember it being much less efficient than the glass diffusor. IME anyway. So it's possible LF, your CO2 may still be low.

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Back in the saddle!

CONTACT!

Your good.
Loved the movie, but I could see why that would disappoint a teenager. Think about most space movies when they did show the alien, they probably would have been better off not showing them (Independence Day, Abyss, ET )



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Loved the movie, but I could see why that would disappoint a teenager. Think about most space movies when they did show the alien, they probably would have been better off not showing them (Independence Day, Abyss, ET )

I loved it too, it's a Carl Sagan novel afterall, it's hard not to love his stuff if you look at it the right way.

You're right about being better off not showing the aliens in those movies. They did a good job for most of Abyss, then blew it at the end. And Independence day, don't get me started. I have a hard enough time believing Will Smith could punch out my sister, let alone a PO'd alien covered in armour. But alas, this is probably a topic for a different thread

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Back in the saddle!

But alas, this is probably a topic for a different thread

Not so fast nowher. I know you don't want to highjack LF's thread about fictional extraterrestrials, but I'm going to bridge our conversation about the algae/bacteria in our tanks and what we are up against. You don't think it's possible do you?

I don't know if you knew this but Carl Sagan once speculated that "microorganisims could be seeded in the clouds above Venus and would eventually make the planet habitable for higher forms of life by extracting water and carbon dioxide, breaking them down through photosynthesis and discharging oxygen into the atmosphere" This bacteria he spoke of
B-G-A

So algae/BGA is our friend

My Scapes

Only if we over populate the Earth and screw it up so bad we can't live here any more... stupid people here on Earth! Oh and it only takes about a year to get to Jupiter! So cut that way back to Venus.

Nice conection BTW! (did you make that up?)




55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

What

I have Aliens in my tank ?

I knew it, something this bad cannot be from this planet .

I love Science Fiction movies, but I don't have the brain to remember particular phrases. Best movie of this kind ever (because it was ground breaking): 2001 A Space Odyssey.

With regards to the tank: I hooked up the CO2 last night around 6PM and fired it up. I didn't see tetratech's suggestion about increasing it slowly over a few days until now. I actually think that the ph of the tank will fall slowly anyway as it will take some time to saturate the water. So, last night the CO2 was on for about 3 hours, that should not have made much of an impact except reminded the fish and plants of how it should be. Today I am letting it rumble and have full CO2 flow for the full day.

One observation I made, but I might be wrong with the "cause and reaction" relationship analysis: All my fish are swimming much lower in the tank when there was no CO2 added. Usually, most of my Espei occupy the upper realm of the tank to hang out, but in the last 2 days they all huddled just above most plants.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One observation I made, but I might be wrong with the "cause and reaction" relationship analysis: All my fish are swimming much lower in the tank when there was no CO2 added. Usually, most of my Espei occupy the upper realm of the tank to hang out, but in the last 2 days they all huddled just above most plants.

I made the exact same observation in my tank a few days ago, actually one page back I posted a pic. The harleys usually stay near the top, but one day they just started hovering right above the tenellus carpet, just staying in one formation.

Perhaps there are little aliens in our Jersey water that are bothing our fish/ plants...

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Back in the saddle!

I have Aliens in my tank

That would be Chao's tank I believe
Speaking of Aliens, did Chaos get obducted by one?



My Scapes

Grrrr,

NowherMan6 - now you gave me another reason to worry, water from the tab.

I think to have observed that my fish came up some more once the CO2 was turned back on. I will make sure to sneak in tonight when I come home and check on them before they see me (as they come out as soon as they see me - for food).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

With higher co2 content in the water they may stay closer to the surface to pop up for a gulp of fresh air once in a while ?

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

That was my thought as well. And sure enough, last night when I came home and sneaked downstairs I saw then half way up between the plants and the surface.

I checked on the CO2 and it was going at about 4bps. Unintentionally I followed tetratech's advice of slowly increasing the CO2 as 4bps are not a super sized load. I later crancked it up some more to "slow stream".

I have a question about "cleaning" plants in a Bleach Solution. I guess I should not remove all plant that I would like to save at once and rather stretch the cleaning process out to a few weeks. Some of my plants also don't like to be uprooted, like the Helferi and the crypts. What should I do with these? The bleach solution is 1 part bleach and 19 parts water, right?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well I can't think of a reason not to do them all at once. But I'd do it on water change day so you can clean up the mess from uprooting.

As for the Helferi it depends how bad the algae is. What would cause most long term harm to the plant - being covered in algae or being uprooted. As the guy on the ground you'll have to make that call.

I wouldn't do the crypts though - too melty. As new leaves grow in trim off the damaged ones.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf,

I will inform the groud troops that they are in charge of their actions


Before I forget,

Today is actually a special day when it comes to my involvement in this hobby.

It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tank, the 29G. It was quite an exciting first year that so far has produced 3 tanks, including this monster here . Plus many new friends here at FP, thanks at this point to all the people who gave their input in one way or another.

So when compared to a marriage, I am no longer a newly-wed and will from now on be able to be held responsible for my actions .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tank, the 29G

Does this mean the honeymoon is over and I could take off the gloves and really tell you what I think.

No, but really once you get past the 1st year and have had success like you have had I think your in it for life.

so have a cold dark one and enjoy

My Scapes

Congrates LF! You have done really well for yourself in a year.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

So that would explain why the romance is dead and why he doesn't listen anymore and takes me for granted

Well if you have to ask what the problem is there's no point me telling you.

BTW, do you know that doctors have discovered a new contraceptive ? Yeah, it's called wedding cake

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

So that would explain why the romance is dead and why he doesn't listen anymore and takes me for granted

Yep, I think he's rebelling alittle, trying to make his own tracks through the planted tank jungle.

Marriage, contraceptive


My Scapes

Me - rebelling - nah

Now move over and listen to the ideas of the new tank-keeper generation

Ups, I guess I have nothing to say

In a more tank related issue I have news though:

I arranged with my LFS to give them around 30 Espei tonight for store credit. I don't get much, but it is a start and marks the first time that any of my efforts return some of the investment.

I intend to bag them in 2 bags, 15 each, and then to put the bags in a cooler to bring them there (10min drive). I guess that should be fine, right? Do you have a better idea?

So, while arranging that deal, I perused the store to see what kind of a treat I could get myself for the 1 year anniversary. And what can I say - I found a very nice treat (in my opinion). I put a hold on a pair of Apistogramma viejita II that the store received just 2 days ago. A treat it is, as they cost $80 as this species supposedly is stillrather rare in the trade. I did not see the couple hang out together in the tank, both were going their own ways, but they didn't show any aggression towards each other when their ways crossed either. I assume that the term "pair" in this case means a male and a female rather than a formed pair.

What do you think?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thats a sweet fish! I can't imagin spending that much cash on a couple of fish but you are going to be getting some cash or SC so that will help matters. I think you are right about them being just a M+F not an actual pair. But who knows they may not like their environment right now but when you get them home to the super cool tank they might hook up.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well, congrats on the esepi sale. Could be the start of something. Little_fish's little fish farm. Always nice to get something back and tell the wife

As for the Apistos:

Obviously very nice looking fish. Is that the actual fish your getting or is that a pic from somewhere else?

I would definitely let them stay in the store for a while if possible before moving, since you said they've only have them a few days.

When it comes to feeding time you might have to be more hands on. When I feed my bolivians I have to push away the schooling fish since they eat all the food before it reaches the lower levels where the rams are. I actually put some larger size food in a net and swish it to the bottom, same when I'm feeding worms, etc.




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Hi Ingo

It is exactly one year ago that I set up my very first tank

Congratulations. Now, I had you figured as someone who has been at this for years. You've certainly learned a lot in a short time, 'cause you're certainly full of good advice.

I love your new fish. Gee that's pricey though, it would be AU$108.65. Is that a picture of your actual fish in the store, or is it one from a profile. Just wondering, 'cause my bolivian rams do not look anywhere near as colourful as the picture in the profile found here. Maybe one day, in the distance future, when I've recovered from the cost of kids, tanks (C02 soon I hope), maybe if I save all my dollars up, I can get 2 of them. Hate to order them in to find they don't look like your pic - so that's why I ask.

Again, congratulations on 1 year of fish keeping. Lucky for all the newbies here that you picked this hobby.

Cheers
TW

Oh thanks everybody, in particular Robyn - that is a very nice compliment.

No, sadly the fish pictured is not the real one I am getting, I found the image when googeling the web. Put basically it looks like it.

Leaving the fish in the store may be a good idea tetratech, but I don't think it is really possible - for a few reasons:

- I am rather sure the store is not too wild about holding fish for someone as they like to refill that spot with fish that they can sell
- The tankmates seemed to be too pushy for the little girl and there is not much hiding space (one cave like structure)
- last but not least, some salesguy who might not be in the know and potentially doesn't care to read the label on the tank may sell them

So, they will come home to Daddy tonight (if not sold/dead/ill).

Good point about the food as well tetratech, just later this morning it dawned on me that I didn't know how and what to feed these guys. After doing some research it seems that mostly some live food is suggested, although one book mentioned that they also would be just fine with "quality" flake food. Tell me more about the worms you feed - do you raise them, buy them, defrost them, or what?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF congrats on the one year anniversary We all have you to blame for this Log madness (and Dr Bonke too)

Very nice apistos indeed. And that was a nice bit of luck with finding a rare kind. I would reccomend seeing if they'll breed, you have a possible goldmine on your hands I doubt an LFS would pass up an opportunity to sell fish that they could make a huge profit on

As for feeding, when I feed brine shrimp/ bloodworms they never make it to the bottom for my loaches. What I do is add some tank water to the brine shrimp/ worms, then suck that up in a turkey baster and let it drip out near the bottom. This way the bottom fish get first shot at it, and you can place it directly and not haphazzardly like I imagine would happen with a net. This is useful if the fish are shy at first and you need to spot feed them in their territory or in a cave section

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Back in the saddle!

Ingo,

That's one gorgeous Apisto, and congrats on the 1 year point. I'm almost ready to set up the planted tank that we've discussed briefly, I can only hope to have even a small amount of the success that you have had.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Jim,

I am sure that you will be at least as successful as I have been as you researched the topic at least as much as I did.

Actually, I hope you are better than me as I am still trying to figure out quite a few things here

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

NowherMan6,

Didn't see your entry, I guess I am getting old .

Question: do you feed live food or defrosted/freeze dried?

If the answer is live food then I would appreciate a short introduction. But I am afraid it includes the word refridgerator and I can already see someone kicking me out of the house.

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

If the answer is live food then I would appreciate a short introduction. But I am afraid it includes the word refridgerator and I can already see someone kicking me out of the house.

Pack your bags.

I feed them frozen, and I keep the food discreetly hidden in the freezer. But I've been wanting to try out the Omega One freeze dried line. Supposed to be pretty good. Their flake food is also supposed to be excellent, though my harlies aren't crazy about it. High quality.

Cultivating live food shouldn't be too hard, especially brine shrimp. A one gallon tank should do, I'm sure you can find instructions online.

If it's a wild caught pair you may need to go the extra mile in getting them to feed, they may not be as voratious as the espei

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6,

I will ask tonight if it is wild caught. Last thing I want is that the fishies starve to death. I have various freeze dried foods, from Blood Worms (which I find are rather big) over Daphnia (rather small) to San Francisco Bay Brand Brine Shrimp (is floating) and Hikari Tubifex Worms (floating).

Let's hope they like at least one of them.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

When you go to the LFS find out what they have been feeding them. Always good info to know..

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Tell me more about the worms you feed - do you raise them, buy them, defrost them, or what?

I get the frozen cubes (usually san fran brand) I defrost them in a cup with tank water for 10 minutes then I dump out the cup over a net in the sink. I take some more tank water and dump it over the net again to get rid of the residue/bloodly liquid etc. so it doesn't go in the tank. Then I feed some of the school right away and then I go down to the bottom with the remaining worms and realize alittle where the rams hang. At this point the rams are really tame so they will go right into the net if I let them.

Sounds like the apistos are a done deal so good luck with them. I have a store way out east on the Island that stocks alot of them. I'll have to take a trip out there maybe this weekend and see what the deal is.

My Scapes

Thanks for the detailed information, tetratech

Sounds like it would be a bit messy to feed frozen food. I sure hope that they like freeze dried as well.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's really not that bad. Doesn't freeze-dried float?
That would be harder for the apistos to get to since they stay on the bottom.

BTW - Yes, I do keep the worms in the frig. Actually one type of SF Brand is called "Fish Gum Drops". Nice way to say "Frozen Bugs"


EDIT: Makes a good case for getting a frig in the garage. Load it up with gum drops and black & tans.


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Doesn't freeze-dried float?

Yes, it does

I was hoping that soaking it for a while will make it sink, but now I remember that uneaten food tends to stay on top as well. Grrrrr

We don't have electricity in the Garage, maybe I could run a fridge on gasoline .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

well with the snow storm on its way you shouldn't have to worry about keeping them cold.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I recently bought frozen MYSIS shrimp, they come in little cubes and you do the same thing as Tetra with them, I never thought to strain mine though, my guys love the 'gravy' the bloodworms make. No more bloodworms for mine though until I find some with a guarantee that there are no parasites. Freeze dried tubifex are just nasty and messy IMHO, they make such a mess in the tank and the fish get all bloated up after eating them, I thought my barbs would burst after just a few bites!

Do the rams always stay on the bottom? My krib is seen all over the tank and never misses coming to the top for feeding time.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Hey Ingo,

Looked up FP on Apistogramma viejita II. There's only one photo & it might the Apistogramma viejita, which text says is less colourful than Apistogramma viejita II. When you get yours, you should take a pic & put it in the profile here in FP.

I'm going to try the various feeding ideas for my rams, as I have trouble getting food to them & I didn't think of those ideas. Brilliant. The only thing I can get to them is algae wafers, as the other greedy fish don't let anything drop to the bottom.

Cheers
TW

I have both rams and apistos and i feed freeze dried tubifex (aswell as frozen bloodworm and sinking pellets), they come in small cubes and what you do is push them hard against the glass and they stick there, so you can reach your arm in and put it down the bottum for your rams/apistos?

Cynical

I have tried that with the tubifex cubes and they don't stay stuck, it may be different with less voracious fish than my barbs and the krib, but I don't know, they barely touch it and it comes loose!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I will catch up with the entries later, for now I have to go and add water to the bags

But here they are:

Attached Image:

Apistogramma viejita II Female

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the boss, both are still bagged as you can see:

Attached Image:

Apistogramma viejita II Male

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OK,

I have a few minutes between water additions now, so first of all for all the input and suggestions on feeding these little charms

I asked in the store how they feed their fish and they told me that during the week it is flakes and on Fridays it is frozen food. But he also showed me that the fish eat freeze dried food, he added some krill to the tank, into the current that pushes the water down from the HOB, and the Apistos ate their share. Nice

Now, a request to all of you: keep your fingers crossed for me that they are doing fine as the last time I got South American Cichlids they both died, it was a pair of German Rams (last fall).

Thanks again, I am sure quite a few more pictures will follow, but not today as it will be lights out soon for this tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Simply beautiful fish and looks like a pair too

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Gorgeous, LF. Look forward to seeing them get lost in your jungle

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Back in the saddle!

BTW, a happy ST. Paddy's day to one and all

Won't be posting much today got an appointment with "a blonde in a black skirt" tetra should know what that is. He's agot a few blondes in black skirts in his fridge !

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Today? Oh yeah, where you are today is tomorrow.

Happy St. Paddy's Bensaf and others... and to LF's new apistos too.

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Back in the saddle!

Sweet fish. I am sure that he will color up when he is not freaking out from trasport. Best wishes!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks to you all

What can I say, I already start to worry (what else is new). Pretty much as soon as I released them into the 20G I noticed that the resident Platies, even the younger ones, swim up to the new fish, from the side, and try to bite their pectoral fins, grrrrr. I hope they will get used to each other quickly before any major damage is done. I managed to take a few shots last night after release.

Here is the female. As you may see, her caudal fin is not in the best shape. Usually I wait these things out as eventually the fin will grow back, but usually my fish are also rather cheap. Anything I should do?

Attached Image:

Female

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Here is a picture of the male, he pretty much colored up a little as soon as he was added to the tank.

Attached Image:

Male

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Last but not least, here is a shot of the pair.

I hope they will take good care of each other.

Ingo

Ah, and yeah - happy St. Patricks Day from me too, to all the Irish folks out there

Attached Image:

Pair

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I like all the pics. Favourite is the one of the pair. He looks like he's puckering up for a kiss. Good luck with them, Ingo.

Cheers
TW

LF,

If you think it's just wear and tear on her tail fin, perhaps from nipping in the store tank etc., then melafix and/ or pimafix should do the trick. I don't think it would be tail rot yet, but that would warrant another treatment...

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Back in the saddle!

LF,
Great find What's next a pair of zebra plecs!

They are already quite beautiful and they should get even more colorful. I don't know, but somehow I think frozen bloodworms, would help with color more than freeze-dried but I could be wrong.

As I mentioned I am looking for a pair as well, so let the Apisto Wars begin.

You are such an animal!

BTW: Found this on a website

"Three color forms of Apistogramma viejita are known. Color form 1 is from Puerto Gaitan, Colombia, 2 from Rio Muco and Rio Guarrojo, Colombia, and the third from tributaries to the Rio Manacacias between Santa Rita and Bengale, also Colombia. The fish have also been described from Venezuela."




My Scapes

Thanks for the input,

Yeah tetratech, I found that info during the day yesterday as well. I am pretty sure that mine actually are the viejita II as the coloration is pretty much on target. There is supposedly another Apisto that looks very similar, I think the difference are the blue lips (or something).

I will keep an eye on the fins to evaluate rotting or "normal" wear and tear from shipping etc.

Also, I am still concerned about the nipping of the fins from the Platies. If I find any loss of pectoral fin pieces then the Platies will be moved tonight into the 29G. Might be a little tight in there then, but they asked for it

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh,

With all this excitement over my new fish I forgot to tell the story of the Espei.

After getting the QT ready with a water change I started to go after the Espei. I readied a larger ziplock bag, removed the three glass lids, filled the bag with 3 cups of tank water, and the hunt was on.

1 hour and 15 min later I caught either 27 or 28 of the juveniles. Most were of younger age, not tiny though, as the older ones are already too fast and smart to be caught be the old guy. I then realized that the ziplock bag is not easily put down as the bottom corners could fold up and kill any fish that may be stuck in it. With the help of the wife I poured them into an old LFS bag that I wisely saved (or forgot to throw out ).

Then I packed the whole bag in 3 towels and in a cooler box, just to be on the save side. 10 min later I was in the store and the sales person in charge seemed to be rather satisfied with my fishies. Actually, I expected this as the shipments from Asia usually produce skinny, small, and pale Espei. He filled my fishies in a clean bucket and it was time to say good-by to them .

So - to anyone who reads this entry and plans to purchase my Espei, take good care of them, will ya?

I can tell already that the big tank looks emptier with about 30% of the fish population gone.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF what did you get for your fish? if anything.

i know how hard it is to remove fish, that you have feed and grown, in your case bred.

i decided to exchange my RTS at the weekend, he had become far to aggressive, chasing every fish in the tank apart from the angel, i got 6 bags of live food in exchange!

How are your rainbows doing? any sign of breeding yet?

i'm hoping to get a couple male rainbows this weekend!

Congrats on the dwarfs, they look great, i got a male cockatoo, last weekend, still trying to find female. is it your intendtion to add them into the 125G, might be hard to see them once they are in.

Karl.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

Karl,

The deal was basically $1 per Espei (they sell them for $4) of store credit, but because I told them there are either 27 or 28 (and counting them is hard) and because I believe they were rather happy with the condition of the fish, I received $30.

This credit, and quite some additional cash, was used up just a few minutes later alread when I got the Apistos.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

some reason I think the population will come back. Probably not as fast being you have the rainbows in there now but it will come back.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yeah Wings, there is a good chance that this will happen. As I still see the occasional very young fish peeking out from the denser growth areas.

Karl - forgot to answer your question about the Rainbows. The are doing just fine (all 6), but I don't see any mating going on. If I am not mistaken then they are egg scatterers and their offspring need quite some time to develop into larger fish (that are not easily eaten anymore). If they had babies then they all became food.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So let me get this straight:

- Two espei $8
- Two Double Red Apisto Agassizi $20
- Bensaf saying your Apisto Viejita are simply beautiful on St. Patrick's Day - Priceless!



My Scapes

That is so true tetratech

I wish he would say similar things about my planting

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

"a blonde in a black skirt"

Oh yeah

Don't expect much today. I expect him to resurface in about a week.

My Scapes

Quick update on the Apisto:

So far so good
They were both still alive when I came home and I did not witness any aggression from the Platies towards them.

I decided to feed them and shoved small dosaged of flake food below the water surface so it would sink. And es, we got some eaters . Also, I addedd some freeze dried tubifex worms and they ate the ones that sank (pushed them down a little) AND from the surface, excellent.

After a good meal, the male Apisto showed the Platies who is boss in the tank and chased them around a little. Revenge for their picking yesterday

But I have a new question

In all this fish madness I almost completely forgot that I am getting a small plant order and today it came in. 5 Anubias Nana Petite (just for the fun of it) and 3 (actually got 4 for some reason) Anubias Congensis. Now I know that Anubias are having their rhizome exposed, and I assume that this is the case for all of them. But just to make sure: the Congensis as well? I have pretty much no smaller roots on the rhyzome so I guess that would mean that I have to tie them to something. Also - they get pretty tall, right (18 inches) ?

Here is the new plant order:

Attached Image:

New Plants

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is a close-up of two Congensis rhizomes. For the time being I just wedged them in some spots in the tank, for sure not the final position though (front of tank).

Attached Image:

No Roots?

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

My guess would be that they need the rhizome exposed, also they've probably been trimmed for shipping and will grow new roots quickly, so if you tie them or wedge them in they should have new roots befroe you know it!

Glad to hear the apistos are doing good, I kind of thought they would come up for food, being cichlids they could be greedy little attention seekers, my krib does tricks when she wants to be fed, shows off all over the place. They will colour up nicely as they settle in and when they finally go into the 125 just wait to see their colours explode! Frozen food being as close to live as I have gotten seems to induce mating frenzy in my fish, even the krib, she turns more purple after a good frozen food feast.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

So you have your krib in the planted tank? Doesn't make a mess of things? If i can't get my hands on Cockatoo then I might have to do kribs. They have been starting to color up at work and look pretty nice.

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She only tears into the plants once in a while, and has never done any real damage to them. I keep her slightly underfed as I do for the rest of the fish. They are really beautiful fish once they colour up in the home tank. If I could I'd get her a mate, right now I just have the barbs (5) and danios (3) and 1 SAE with her, still I worry that a pair would kill the other fish, maybe in a bigger tank it would be fine. I'll have new pictures tonight and I'll try and get a good one of her.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Don't expect much today. I expect him to resurface in about a week.

No here I am. Saturday morning back in work - busy.

I needed a beer yesterday one those strange "what the hell am I doing here days".

I did a tour of the factory yesterday. Down at the warehouse there is a cement drainage ditch going around the perimeter of the building. This ditch is no more then c foot wide and deep. There's been heavy rain lately so it had no maore then 2 inches of water. As I walked by something caught my eye. This little drainage ditch was swarming with fish , hundreds of them poking about in the soating of mud at the bottom. About an inch. Couldn't make out what they were but looked Rasbora like. Then I noticed there were a lot of crabs up to a couple of inches wide (I didn't even know there were freshwater crabs !) and what's known locally as "bulot", which are like small eels or birchirs. I only know thenm as they make great eating when deepi fried . I don't know of any big body of water nearby, how the hell all this life got in drainage ditch I don't know. It's a very lush country.

Even weirder then that was the next episode. I had my delivery supervisor come to me with a manpower requisition. Wanted to hire a new truck driver. I asked why he need a new driver, and he said the usual guy was sick. Of course I asked why can't we wait for him to come to work.....the conversation in Indonesian went something like this.

Him: "He'll be out for a month, Pak"
Me: "Oh, it must be serious, what's wrong with him ?"
Him: "He's possessed by the devil, Pak"
Me: "Uuuhhhhhhhh ??????"
Him: " Ya, Pak, he was going home from work last night and a demon entered his body"
Me: "You're taking the mickey right ?"
Him: " No Pak, the excorcist says he needs to stay indoors for a month, he can't drive anyway Pak, he keeps twitching"
Me " Well if his head turns 360o he won't need the rearview mirror "
Him: " Sorry Pak, don't understand"
Me: " Are you really asking me to hire somebody else because one of our guys is suffering from demonic possession ?"
Him: "Yes, Pak, why is there is a problem?"

This went on for a another 20 minutes or so, as I tried to explain to the guy why I couldn't give someone a month off because they thought they were in the clutches of a menevolent spirit.......

Really, I sometimes wonder how the hell I ended up here. It's not like they even have draft Guinness.Only the cans.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

take breath



I need a kleenex, that brought tears to my eyes and made my belly hurt, if I had a job I'd try that excuse. Sometimes I think the kids are demonic spirits sent here to torture and torment me!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

The really funny thing is that you tryed to have fun with it and the guy didn't have a clue. Talk about culture shock. How long have you been there? Still have to be weird.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
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I have read in various reports that in tropical climates fish and other critters can be found in even the smallest ditch. Come to think of it, I also don't recall an explanation on how these animals get there

And I hear you on the troubles with understanding / accepting local customs in a foreign country. Just yesterday I saw thousands of people dressed in green, wearing funny hats, and being drunk, at Noon. I couldn't even get lunch for an hour as the Irish Pub was jammed with youngsters (I would say minors) drinking beer. I have no idea what demon caused them to do that .

Bensaf, I think we have the biggest St. Patrick's Day parade of the world here, they expected 2 million people along the route through Midtown Manhattan. You may have liked it

About the Congensis: I guess we are in sink that the Rhizome cannot be buried, right?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Bensaf

It's not like they even have draft Guinness.Only the cans.

You poor pup!

Look I have enough trouble conversing with the older generation just to buy co2 gas for a planted aquarium - Did you ever?

My Scapes

I couldn't even get lunch for an hour as the Irish Pub was jammed with youngsters (I would say minors) drinking beer

I just want to say, I noticed the exact same thing. I couldn't go out for my lunch walk yesterday because of that parade. WHile walking down one strett there were tons of kids - 14-17 year old kids - drunk, getting sick, getting arrested by cops. I couldn't believe it, where did they drink all this? How did they get served? And why aren't they in school?

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Back in the saddle!

Isn't it cute how kids can get away with such things? Yay for good parents!

About the Congensis: I guess we are in sink that the Rhizome cannot be buried, right?

OH yeah i wouldn't. Best bet now it to tie them down to something and let the roots grow. Once you have roots then you can plant them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
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BTW, legal beer drinking age in Germany is 16.

We learn to handle drinking first and only then are allowed to drive a car (18).

Also, hard liquor legal drinking age is 18.

Wings, thanks for the info on the Congensis .

I guess today I will be busy with at least some bleaching and planting.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Do you bleach all your new plants?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric