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SubscribeLITTLE_FISH 125G Log
tetratech
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male usa
Here's a pic of my too ramshorn in my 12g. I'll probably have a hundred by my next post. I sense another trade....





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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Gang,

I am creating this post to ask for your opinion regarding replanting. I am planning to take the section of Water Sprite out from the area to the right of “Rock Valley”. Am I risking that the algae will come back because the plant mass shrinks dramatically (although I don’t think it is that much but the plant is a good nutrient sucker)?

In its place I would like to put the very large group of Pennywort that is currently in the middle of the tank. This group is overshadowing my Bacopa and my Narrow Leaf Ludwigia.

So here is the Water Sprite area that I want to change:

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LITTLE_FISH
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And here is the Pennywort group

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And just for the fun of it, here is “Rock Valley”

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A look to the left of “Rock Valley”

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LITTLE_FISH
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The whole tank from the front (bad quality, I know)

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The whole tank from the left

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tetratech
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male usa
So new algae grow is slowing or stopped?

In regards to the water sprite. I would take a good chunk of it and float it. As long as it doesn't block too much light it would suck up nutrients and not be in the way of the rescaping effort.

Is the Rotala Macrandra doing well?, cause I think that looks good were it is and I would move anything else between that and the glosso and just let the glosso work it's way from the base of the Rotala to the front of the tank and let it spread out (simple). Take it one area at a time and see how it looks then take another section.

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Oct-2005 19:16

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LITTLE_FISH
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Gang,

Hm, did I offend you all with something that I wrote or why is nobody (except tetratech once) adding anything? Anyway given that nobody said I should not remove the Water Sprite on the right I went ahead today and did it. It was again a 4 hour re-planting and water change affair.

I took out all the Water Sprite on the right side, added some Pennywort in the corner, added some Rotala Indica in front of it, replanted the Egeria Najas to the back (and cut it as well), added some Narrow Leaf Ludwigia, added some cutting from the Mayaca Fluviatilis, trimmed the Alternanthera reineckii "roseafolia" and planted 3 of its pieces, and finally added some Pygmy Chain Sword from my 29G.

When it was all done I did the water change and left the building. About 3 hours later I saw the most amazing bubbling in the tank so far. During my routine I also removed the sponge filter from the Reactor (which I did last week as well) and cleaned it. When I put it back I didn’t place it in as deep as I usually do (for the ones who know this reactor – the bottom of the sponge rested in the past on top of the 2 pins) but pushed it in just to be flush with the bottom of the tube. Although I have the same bubble rate than I had yesterday (fast, but not continuously running yet) I had the reactor full of bubbles. I have no idea why.

Overall, algae are still there but getting less and less, I saw a green stringy bunch on the reineckii turn black (and as such dead) over night. I gave up on trying to be careful not to vacuum any Espei fry out, there are simply too many.

So here are quite a few pictures to illustrate the words above. Please be so kind and comment .
I also have a question regarding a plant identification (see last picture).

Beginning with the total tank review (setup, week 2, and today - week 4)

Setup

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LITTLE_FISH
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Week 2

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Week 4 (today)

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Another view from today

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The new right tank section

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Another view of the right tank section

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Mayaca Fluviatilis bubbling

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The Reactor “Loaded”

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Does anyone know what plant this is (maybe Alternanthera reineckii "roseafolia" as well, but it looks different that the other one I have)?

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upikabu
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Hi Ingo,

I like the new, cleaner look. Is that still water sprite just to the left of rock valley? Or is it wisteria? (hard to see with the flash.) I'm not a big fan of plants that will grow too bushy quickly (e.g. wisteria) as it's such a pain to trim them once they get out of hand and they never end up looking as good. Of course that's just personal preference. Anyways, nice job on the pruning exercise! You must be wiped after that.

-P
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
I wouldn't worry that it was anything you said, I can't tell you the number of times I made a joke or said something and no one has gotten back to me. Don't take it personally, people are busy, etc. Sometimes I have to sneak onto my computer to put up a post, because my wife thinks I'm nuts

Anyone I attached a pic of your layout with a red line. If you want opinions I'll give you mine, but it's only what I see and doesn't mean it's correct or what you want, but is that opening between the rocks with the rotala in the back your focal point. If yes, then I think all the other plants must descend down in height from the two rocks down into the corners. If you put the tall plants in the corners (which is a first reaction) I think it draws away from the focal point (the two rocks). Again just my opinion.



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tetratech
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Or you could have a curtain affect in the back. That is one tall species going all the way across the back. That way you have plants, but because it's all the same plant it doesn't distract from the focal point and leave the varitey of species shorter and in front of the tallest rock.


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goldfishgeek
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LF if I knew what water sprite was I would have told you where to put it

I just love your tank. I think it looks great and I know I know nothing about plants, although thanks to you that is sort of changing!

I like the recent pics, the tank looks alot more "organised" if you see what I mean?

Am so glad the algae has gone - by the looks of the pics.

GFG

Last edited by goldfishgeek at 23-Oct-2005 19:30

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile Homepage Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Now that we're done with the algae, it's down to the nitty gritty - aquascaping.

Now the real work begins.

The plants are real healthy but there's no real flow. At the moment it looks like a haphazard mixture of plants. The water sprite is too strong and dense and the more intersting plants are too few and too small in comparison and as a result are completely overshadowed. The other plants need to make more of a "statement" to stand out from the WS.

For the sake of your sanity I think you are going to need more non stem plants in there. Consider Swords, Crypts and Grassy plants.

Tetras suggestion is great but may be difficult to achieve without just the right plants. Another options is the flip side of the same coin. If the focal point is to be the rock bridge you can try a concave design, tall on either side sloping down to the rocks. Probably not as attractive as tetras suggestion but less work.

More variance of leaf shape and size. Some more interesting grassy plants. The corkscrew val is probably not enough to make much of an impression. Something like Val. Nana/Val. Natans or Cyperus Helfiri. Much taller but very fine leaves so they won't overshadow anything. Tall crypts like Balansae and Spiralis again have the height but are very graceful.

Swords or Apons would give an added shape and texture. For swords you can use the smaller or narrow leafed types. Uruguaysis (I probably make a complete hash of that spelling) Narrow Leaf Rubin, there's quite a few to choose from. Apons are good, Capuroni is a really beauty, nice height, interesting color and texture. Criniums are good, real easy, interesting looking.

Crypts, Blyxa Japonica for a mid section. Specimen Anubias for a mid ground splash.

Try some bigger bolder stem plants to work with and contrast to the finer leaved stems. Big ones like Hygro Corymbosa, Hygro. Augustifolia, Limnophilia Aromatica, Ammania Gracillis, more Reineckii (yes that's what's in the photo, just the leaves are a little funnily shaped on that one). Big bold groups of these at the back with the smaller finer leaved stems at the front show each off better.

Tighten everything up. Keep the different types of stem together. Don't have a bit of one stem here, and another bit of the same plant there, keep them grouped together or just one highlighting/contrasting species in the middle. This kind of grouping works very well on long low tanks.

What ? You still reading this ? Get to work on that tank !






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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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upikabu –

I actually don’t use a flash on the pictures; it is the reflection of the light on the plant leaves that make it so bright . Yes, there is still quite a bit of Water Sprite left in the tank (all the way on the left and to the left of the rock arrangement) and Wisteria is in there as well.

I agree that they are hard to maintain, but their purpose was (is) to suck up nutrients and to give the plants a head start over the algae. That’s also the reason I refer to them as weeds . I only removed half of it so that the tank as a whole doesn’t go through a dramatic change. The rest will follow in the upcoming week(s).

tetratech –

My wife doesn’t think I am nuts, she knows it for fact

I sure do want to have your design opinion (but I will not add black substrate ). I hear what you say and I have thought about this as well. The only problem that I see with your vision is that I would have only a few plants left (all ground cover guys) and a lot of empty open space (plus hardware fully visible). To avoid this problem I thought I might go with high ends and then fall off, like you can see in the attached pic.

The curtain scenario is not my favorite as it tends to make the tank look like a rectangular box.

goldfishgeek –

Thanks for the compliments, I appreciate your input. I know I still have ways to go but I enjoy this phase very much as the road to success is at least as exciting as the success itself.

Bensaf –

You are right, at the moment it is a haphazard mix of plants. As explained above, the remaining Water Sprite will be removed slowly in phases. All replanting so far had 3 purposes (list)

1) Getting an idea of what might look good where, but more from a shape rather than a particular plant and position.
2) Saving plants that might stay in the tank in the long run and throwing out sure dislikes.
3) Slowly transferring from a nutrient sucker to a planted tank.

I am so glad that you gave me this list of non-stem plants as I was just waiting for the right time to ask about them. I will take my time and look into each one of them (also their availability).

About getting back to work on the tank – the wife is really getting mad as their was not one weekend out of the last 4 where I didn’t work on my tanks (water change and pruning on the 20G and 29G as well) for at least 6 hours total. Plus all the time I spend just staring at them.

All -

Anyone have any idea of why my Reactor is going mad? Uh, almost forgot – My reactor became a venturi reactor by accident. The tube has a tiny leak on top where the curved inset is fused to the pipe. This concludes in tiny CO2 bubbles escaping on top of the Reactor and most are immediately pulled back in via the Rio pump.

Thanks a lot to all of you,

Ingo

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Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 24-Oct-2005 09:12
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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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The equipment definitely has an influence on aquascaping.
Right now I have a black stealth vis-therm heater so with my black background you don't see it). I'm shopping for a black eheim/compatible return tube to replace my current green one. So the only thing left is the diffusor/reactor and that can obviously be done externally. I'm currently using black stealth tubing so you don't see that either.

Anyway getting back to your tank. If you end up doing your decision IMO you need to keep the corners fairly green (different shapes, but fairly even in color and than have most of the color appear in that rock area. That will still keep the main focal point clear. You clearly have a focal point in the tank, unless you change that.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

I drew another line into the picture to help with the understanding of how I envision the plant arrangements.

This line is the border of low plants to middle/tall plants. The higher the line gets the deeper into the tank I imagine low plants to grow. Does that make any sense :%)?

As you can see, towards the left side would be an area where the tall plants (yellow line) cut off and only low plants remain and then a slope would be formed by middle sized plants towards the focus point.

What do you think?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Oh, here is the Picture, duh...

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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male usa
Not much is there to write about my tank today.

One thing would be that the number of Espei fry I have begins to worry me. They like to hang out most in the new low plant area to the right of the rock formation and there are so many of them that it is impossible to count them. They are of all ages, between 3 weeks and just a few days. There seems to be a major production machine in the tank . I only hope that this will lessen a little once the breeding leaves are lessened in numbers. I already wonder how I ever will be able to catch these buggers once they are large enough to be traded at the LFS (they say I would need to give them about 30 to make it worth while, they would give me credit of about $1 per fish).

EDIT: Besides the above mentioned area, there are at least another 10 to 20 spread out throughout the tank.

Another thing is that my Reactor is still going crazy. I have no idea why there are all of a sudden so many bubbles in it. I checked the tubing and cannot find a leak. Over night the tube is full of water which would have leaked out. Can I be that the lower position of the filter pad (flush with the reactor’s bottom) makes such a difference?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 25-Oct-2005 09:19


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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male usa
Hey LF,

Why don't you just let big school of the espei develop. What your tank you could easily hold 50 to 60 and it would look really great.

Can't help you with the reactor since I haven't used one yet. I'm still deciding on what reactor/diffisor I want to use when I replace the hagen ladder.

BTW- On your previous post. I think that's a good idea the way you laid it out with the second line for the shorter plants. I usually like to make a small change take a look at the tank and then adjust from there. Is way it's not overwhelming. Also from the pic your xmas moss looks good.






Last edited by tetratech at 25-Oct-2005 19:14

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Thanks for the comment on the layout, I agree that small changes at a time will give me (us) a better idea of where a design is heading. About the large school, no doubt does it look striking, as can be seen in all the Harlequin Rasbora landscapes from Amano. But I am still just a fish beginner and as such tend towards having more of a variety rather then a single species 125G tank.

All,

Well, not a good day yesterday (guess I need them once in a while so I can whine a little). I have my first death in the tank, an Oto caved in. I hope it was one of the new ones that I just recently acquired as I was not giving them a high survival rate to begin with (just been shipped to the LFS and young).

Also, the brown slime (diatoms) is coming back. I attribute this to my messing around in the tank last weekend when I took out so much weed that I for sure must have raised a lot of gunk (and with it silica) into the water column. Unfortunately, any little string of algae in the tank is now magnified as the slime attaches to it, including the moss that just started to look better. Maybe I do a little water change tonight and suck out as much of it as I can get (around 20 to 25 G of water).

I also turned off the power head in the front right corner; I think I have enough current in the tank without it now that the plants are shorter.

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
You have a 125g tank. It's like a block long, you could easily have 40 of those espei in there and have plenty of room for some other nice fish and smaller schools. Besides it seems like you have free supply as well and sell of the extras to the LFS.

Otos
It's very hard to account for otos, once you acquire a certain number. I'm amazed you found the dead one in that tank. I have seven, but the most I've ever been able to count was 6 at one time.

Slime
Want me to send you a willow branch? Rooted and budding

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Want me to send you a willow branch?


Nah, I will try first the German Oak Tree that is growing in our backyard .

The older fry (about 3 weeks I guess) are now swimming in the open but have not yet started to school with the grownups. This weekend I will try to get a photo where you can actually see them. I agree that 40 of them would be a great school, but I am almost afraid that there are way more. I also cannot be sure that the LFS will take them, especially if I arrive each week with another 30 .

I have just recently (maybe 3 months ago) started to have Otos and my losses overall are at about 50%. I read that this is quite common but any fish loss is hurting, even more so the first in a particular tank. The one that hurt me most so far is the loss of my pair of German Rams even before they had a chance to get into the large tank.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Interesting story, I was in Aquarium adventure last week and some women was buying a german ram, I usually don't say anything, but when the owner (I think) of the store walked away, I said to her those fish are very difficult to take care of, so we started talking and she was putting it in a 6gallon tank with some other fish and I was telling her they don't do good with any kind of stress whether it be water quality, other fish, temp change, etc. and then the fish store owner walked over and we were still talking. The fish store owner than went on to debate me on the hardiness of german rams and I didn't really want to get into, but I went on to say from my experience they are a difficult fish to keep. I think the guy was pissed at me, but I went on to say that the store has great fish and I buy here all the time, just not the rams.

BTW - The bolivian ram is really a great fish and I think you would enjoy one or more in your tank. My bolivian survived my "White Cloud" being switched between several different tanks before he landed in my 72. He is a great fish and I'm thinking about getting more. You could also go with a Keyhole Cichlid. I saw some young ones at Aquarium Adventure. They also had a Chocolate Cichlid, but I believe those might be more agressive.

Last edited by tetratech at 27-Oct-2005 08:29

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tetratech,

You are right on all points. I was/am considering Bolivians myself but given that I am German the German Ram gets preference (I know it is not a native fish to Germany). One thing that makes me a little worried about the Bolivian is that it is, based on its larger size, a bigger aquascaper than the German. This will probably not be a problem if you have only one as no pre-breeding ritual might kick in, but if you have a pair it could become an issue (Untitled experienced this himself).

I also once sent an entire family home for additional homework. They were about to purchase a 20G at the LFS but had no clue and they were in the middle of being steamrolled by the sales guy (no offense to all LFS employees here at FP, I know that you would not do that). I can tell you that the sales guy didn’t like it. One thing I have not yet got myself ready to argue about is the tank of painted tetras, but I am sure that I will say something eventually.

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Well, I'm of Russian decendent, don't think there's too many tropical fish from that region.

Bensaf has two bolivians but he might have too males. I believe they aren't that difficult to sex.

My one bolivan did dig a little trench for himself under a small piece of driftwood, but he hasn't damaged anything and never bothers anyone. They only go to about 5" in your tank it will still look small.

AA also had some of those red zebra danios for sale, like $5 a piece of a danio, but I guess certain beginners and kids are attracted to these fish.

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One thing that makes me a little worried about the Bolivian is that it is, based on its larger size, a bigger aquascaper than the German. This will probably not be a problem if you have only one as no pre-breeding ritual might kick in, but if you have a pair it could become an issue (Untitled experienced this himself).


Ingo: I have a breeding pair of Bolivian Rams (already bred twice in the last 2 months) and they never did any damage to the plants or mess the aquascape, even when they were making multiple depressions on the sand (among the forest of chain swords) to move the wrigglers around. They do munch on the sand, but never uproot any plant in the process. Then again, maybe I just have a neat pair.

-P
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upikabu,

maybe I just have a neat pair


Or maybe Untitled No4 has just a very messy one .

Thanks for the info, it will help me when the time is right to add any Ram to the tank. This though will not happen for quite a while as I want the home to be nicely settled when they move in.

At the moment it doesn’t look like I am winning my algae battle. The dark string (assuming BBA) are covering most of the small plants on the foreground and the edges of the anubias and a few other plants. I haven’t dosed Phosphor in about 3 weeks now and had the values down to maybe 1ppm by last weeks end. I wonder if that actually helped the BBA while it slowed down other types of algae? So last night I added a shot of Phosphor and I will see if it has any effect.

All I know for sure is that this coming Sunday I will have to spend quite some time “cleaning” this mess up. The wife will be so pleased]:|.

Ingo


Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 28-Oct-2005 03:54


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Gang,

The impression of my tank tonight can be described with one word:

DISGUSTING

I can’t believe that all the brown slime is returning and attaches itself to the continuously growing BBA algae, it that’s what it is.

If it wouldn’t be for all the nice Espei fry I would tear that whole thing down and start anew. Something has to happen.

I know I might be over critical and it really doesn’t show that well on pictures, but I will try to show you what I mean. Here is the whole tank.

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A close-up from the top of the rocks

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One from the sags and swords, you can see that the whole area in between is covered

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Xmas moss on the rock

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On a better note, an Espei fry swimming in the open

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Same fry, just closer. You can clearly see the black spot and what appears to be a more yellow than orange body coloration.

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very cool pics little fish, am very jealous you can breed non livebearing fish and also the fact that your pictures come out so good.

impressive.

GFG


p.s I know you hate it, but honestly you want disgusting, my 35 G with the yellow plants and hopeless lights beats your gorgeous 125. have faith in the system - algae will go its probably cos you did the WC ? was that you? too many logs too little brain space. it will go! and to be honest I can't see it! mind you given my lack of plant knowledge I probably think it is part of the moss or some thing
xx

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Oh dear. BBA is horrible junk. I have some similar stuff growing on my substrate, though it does not grow on the plant, s I am unsure as to what it is really.

But the fact you have fry is awesome ^ ^. I'd help you get rid of the BBA if I coul , but I don't know how to deal with the stuff, so I shall sympathize with you, since know what a nuissance algae can be like.

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Since Bensaf is busy (something about lizards, insects, bats and flopping fish) I'll give you my amateur 2 cents.

Your still getting algae, sounds like the BBA is bothering you the most. I think you have two options.

1. Cut as much of the crap out as you can and plunge the tank into darkness for a few days. When you restart do a 50% WC and have the purigen ready to go and start with good co2 consistent Co2 and use half of the lighting system. If everything looks to be going good start to increase light and light ferts, eventually heavier ferts.

2. Many people have had success using Flourish Excel for many algae types. You could double dose this and see what happens.

Both of these options are Espei Fry safe


Last edited by tetratech at 28-Oct-2005 20:11

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I can't see any BBA ???

What I can see is what looks to me to be a lot of Staghorn Algae.

What causes staghorn ? Low Macros ! How to cure it ? Add Macros.

It's quite easy to beat back.

Have you reduced your macro dosing too much. If I remembered correctly you haven't added phosphate in a while. Nitrate ?

The only way to be 100% certain they're there is to add them.

Adding light ferts would be counter intuitive to me. If the Co2 is good and consistent that's the time you need decent ferts not light doses. Unless you still cling to the belief that Nitrate and Phosphate cause algae. As you know I don't. Also it goes back to what I keep harping on about like a broken record (is that a mixed metaphor ?), don't let the algae dictate how you grow the plants. If you vary dosages to try to combat algae you get more issues not less.

I suspect you thought the algae disappearing before was because of reduced doses. It wasn't. Now you may have run things too tight. Probably still trusting the damn test kits too !?

I look at the pics at an alarm immediately switches on in my head and there's a red warning light flashing. It reads "tank with low macros". That's just what I see when I look at the pics.


Last edited by bensaf at 28-Oct-2005 21:55


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GFG, Megil, tetratech, and Bensaf,

Thank you so much for your input and sympathy. Last night I was on one hand considering tetratech’s solution, lights out for a few days. But, for obvious reasons, I don’t love that idea too much as I didn’t setup this tank to keep it in the dark .

So, on I go to Bensaf’s statement:

You know, when I selected the first algae picture in my last entry, and when I said BBA (if that’s what it is), I had something in mind but didn’t dare to write it down – Staghorn. All my readings about algae state that BBA is very short strings (1/4 of an inch) and in particular the one on the rock is much much longer and shows the divisions of the individual strands very clearly.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any explanation on the web why Staghorn occurs. All I could find was that it usually attaches itself to hardware (that then should be washed in a bleach solution) and appears mostly close to the surface. But I have it on the ground as well. Too much light? One change I made about 6 days ago was that I increased my double light period from 3 to over 5 hours. That might have done it.

On the other hand, and listen carefully Bensaf, I haven’t tested ph, nitrate, and what not for quite a long time now. The only one that I tested for was phosphates and even the last test there is about a week ago. I added some Phosphate 2 days ago because I had the feeling that I might get low. Reason: I have 2ppm tab water reading and the tank sucks some of it up. So 4 days after water change I figured it is getting low.

Now, given the Macro increase advice, the question is which macro to increase. First off, I could go ahead and add a consistent amount of Phosphate. This in turn should automatically also increase my Potassium as it is contained in the KH2PO4. I might want to hold off with adding additional KNO3 as I already dose 1tsp every other day (and so far I have never missed a dosing – micros and macros).

I guess I will start sucking out some of the gunk today (if I find the time) and do a 50% water change tomorrow as scheduled.

Thanks again for the input,

Ingo


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Hold on now, you sound like a rocket scientist :%)
Stop me if I'm wrong, but the EI method is designed to be just the opposite. It allows for a wide range of nutrient levels than resets the tank with the WC.

You could micro management and over analyze(something I've been accused of doing, right Bensaf) and than something else will happen and you'll be constantly changing things to correct something else.

The reason I mentioned the blackout at this time is because you said "If it wouldn’t be for all the nice Espei fry I would tear that whole thing down and start anew."
Well the blackout will protect the fry and it's the closest thing to starting anew. cut, rescape, take out the junk and have an nice weekend. Come the new year (that's Nov 1st) in the old celtic society. Halloween is the end of the old year when the dead visited the earth (get it scary stuff for halloween) and all kinds of sacrifices were made. Bonfires were built to sacrifice animals to the Gods, so instead of burning animals we will plunge alga into a hell of darkness.......Yes dear, I'll take out the garbage. Gotta Go

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What :%)

Gee, drunk at 7 AM



Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 29-Oct-2005 07:24


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I was just getting going and the wife interrupted me to take out the trash.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. The blackout will allow you to take a break from the tank, your wife will love you for it.
Many advanced aquarists do blackouts to eradicate things they can't get rid of. I don't disagree with everything Bensaf is saying, but I think the blackout will help to eradicate most of the algae and when you'll get a fresh start with a mature biofilter mature plantmass.



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Saturday Afternoon,

I just spent another 5 hours on the tank. What have I done:

Sucked out some of the gunk with a small vacuum, about 10 gallons.
Removed the remaining Water Sprite, created a big mess in the process, soooo much gunk collected in these plants.
Did a 50% water change and sucked the gunk out as much as I can.
Ripped out some leaves that were heavily affected by algae, some have the typical appearance of BBA, short black hairs.
Hand cleaned the Xmas Moss in the tank.
Refilled the tank.
Waited 20min and did another 50% water change to remove more gunk.
Added water back in.
Removed Reactor and cleaned it.
Remove filter output pipe and cleaned it.
Cleaned the filter itself, just rinsed the media in tank water (in bucket) and squeezed the pads.
Added macros, baking soda, and equilibrium.
Moved the power head to be after the Reactor in the flow direction.

I am sure that I did not manage to remove all algae. I hope that I get it under control by regular fertilization and proper CO2. If that doesn’t help then I might try tetratech’s dark tank method.

Now, about an hour after I finished the job, the Espei are at it again, they love the fresh water and after each water change I can be sure that another 10 fry will be added to the tank, but now the hiding places become limited and maybe more eggs will be eaten. We will see. I also had the pleasure to account for all 7 Otos. One has a booboo on his back (since I got him) and I hope it will heal.

Here is the tank now (BTW, the green spot on the left at water surface area is my growing group of Duck Weed):

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Looking good LF,

Hope you get over the hurdle, but if it doesn't work I think the blackout will be a big help. At least you could enjoy the tank over the weekend and then if you need the blackout you could do it mid-week.

Couple of questions:

I think you said you bought a backup generator? Can you give me some specifics?

When you restart you Eheim, do you get gunk flowing back into the tank. What process do you use to restart?



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Sounds like a plan, I will further consider it .

Backup Generator: No – I don’t have such a device. What I have is a battery powered Air Pump that runs on 2 D batteries and should last for at least 12 hours when running full steam (I hope).

Eheim Startup: I restart the filter by filling it with tank water before closing it, then hooking up the quick valve (1 for both intake and outlet), and plugging it in . That’s it, nothing else is required, starts like a charm. If I would not refill the filter first I would have to use the big push button on top of the filter to pump water into it, but even that is doable as I did it this way at the very first startup. \

And yes, there came some flaky stuff out when I restarted it, I am sure that it comes from the pipe itself. It wasn’t too much though.

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Weekly update for Week 5

The tank has gone through some more changes:

The remaining Water sprite has been removed as it was growing so well that it overshadowed everything else.

Lots of labor went into the tank yesterday when I did 2 50% water changes and removed some algae by hand. Nevertheless, algae issues remain. The latest effort has been to make sure that all ferts (including phosphor) are present in significant values and that the CO2 is humming nicely.

The first fish (Oto) died in the tank, about 5000 new Espei fry have been born ( well maybe not quite that many).

For additional details, just read the sections between now and the last weekly update. Here are some pictures now. There is also one where I ask for a plant identification as it was a small stem when I got it and I for sure didn’t order it.

Have fun,

Ingo

Review, Tank Week 1

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Review, Tank Week 3

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Today, Tank Week 5

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Egeria Najas with adult Espei on bottom left and out-of-focus fry on top right (plant has grown at least double in height since last weekend)

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Unknown Plant (maybe Baby Tears? ) in front left corner, identification is appreciated.

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Rock Valley with Xmas Moss walls

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Close-up of Xmas Moss section with stringy algae

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Glosso carpet 14 days ago

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Glosso carpet now, growing in

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Tank really looks nice after the cleanup, but if the algae remains I think your really need to "shock" (blackout) it to finally be rid of it. Your tank conditions now are probably much better to deal with it, but the "seeds" for this were planted at startup. Everyone's hindsight is 20/20, but let's recap:

LF's Tank: High Light, Immature Plant Mass, No biofilter
RESULT: Many flavors of algae

TT'S Tank: Medium Light, Immature Plant Mass, Some biofilter/eco complete contains (Heterotrophic Bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants)
RESULT: Green Water

Bensaf's Tank: Medium Light, Mature Plant Mass, Heavy biofilter
RESULT: No Algae

Notice I didn't even mention ferts. Bottom line is algae with grow especially in strong light with very little waste. There is small levels of waste in tap water, enough to feed the algae if the light is strong enough. I'm still on the fence if the nutrients fueled their growth after the algae started to grow, but they don't need alot to get started, nothing detectable by you any way. The biofilter is hugh at the begining to eat the waste. Most highly respected aquarist use carbon and don't fert in the beginning. I don't believe cuttings are using the ferts from the getgo, they are using internal reserves.

Last edited by tetratech at 31-Oct-2005 07:19

Last edited by tetratech at 31-Oct-2005 07:28

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LF,

Read this:
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel_faq.html

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tetratech,

I assume you are referring to the first Q/A section where they talk about Excel being able to kill algae.

Sounds interesting, in particular when you add the statement of a later Q/A that you can use both CO2 and Excel together with added benefits (although they don’t say what that would be).

Maybe I should go ahead and dose Excel, glad I have a 2 liter bottle of it at home.

Thanks ,

Ingo


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Yes, the first Q/A.
I sent this to you because the response comes from Seachem itself, not just some board (although the board might be less bias, but at least seachem is going on record that this is an added benenfit of the product. The only thing is I've read that you need to overdose the product for it to really have an affect on algae, so you might even went to call the 800 number at Seachem and ask them. Also I don't know if overdosing will affect your espei fry more than a full grown fish.

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Grrr, isn’t there one option that doesn’t make me worried about my fry ?

See, I even think that a 5 day dark period is dangerous to the fry as you don’t feed during this time. Espei are supposedly excellent hunters and if their bellies get empty, well that’s when they remember that they made all these lovely little babies.

I am tired, I guess I will just see how the tank looks tonight.

BTW, I lost another Oto. I mentioned earlier that I had one with a booboo from the get-go and it could have been him. I am not sure though as it didn’t look all that “fresh” anymore when I found him. And I only can count 5, although there should be 6.

Ingo


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tetratech
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I'm not saying it's a problem, I would call seachem. You could probably even discuss your algae problem with them. Although they'll probably try to convert you to seachem products for your ferts

One thing I have realized is you really have to be educated and have self control what fauna anf flora you put in your tank, becuase when if you adjust for one thing, it might affect something else. It's tough to maximize conditions for all things. I know this sounds mean, but you can't worry about all those fry. In nature you know how many of those fry grow up to be adult espeis?







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Hi Guys,
This has been an interesting series of reading for that I
thank you. However... You guys are "ate up" with the
"impatience bug." You seem to want to have beautiful
tanks (which you do) but algae free (which you won't) and
immediately (which will never happen).

I seem to be on a "Patience" kick lately. Responding to
many posts. Chat with Ben. Back when he first started
here he posted with an algae problem and I gave him some
suggestions. They worked, but... took a while. Since then
he has had some stunningly beautiful tanks and all with
very very little algae.

You have to give yourself and your tanks time for something
to work. Cutting off the light (blacking out a tank) will
kill off the algae (you have to do a massive water change
immediately after opening up the tank again) but unless you
resolve the imbalance, be it nutrient(s) or CO2, or light,
or simply not enough of a type of plant, the algae will
return, sometimes with a vengance.

Too much of "A" nutrient, too little, too many slow growing
plants and too few fast growing stem plants, etc. all
effects the tank as a whole.

I suggest you two might slow down, review what you have
done and think about what you might want to do, and then
do one thing and watch for results over a 1 to a 3 month
period.

Then, just when you have things balanced out and working
great... the bulbs have aged, and are radiating at a
different frequency (temperature K) and algae starts again.

It's fun, and a wonderful learning experiance but you gotta
go slowly.

Frank


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Cutting off the light (blacking out a tank) will kill the algae...but unless you resolve the imbalance, be it nutrient(s) or CO2, or light,or simply not enough of a type of plant, the algae will
return, sometimes with a vengance.

You make some valid points. I agree with the above statement, but I believe the tank is better equipped now to deal with algae than it was from the startup. The tank has a much more mature plant mass and biofilter. Plus the lighting has been reduced.

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Hi, i havent read all the posts on this so im not sure what has been said, but to fix the algae problem This is what i would do

For two weeks;

Cut down on the lighting (not a shortened period, pull out a bulb or 2)

Reduce or turn off the Co2

Stop adding artificial nutrients

Get a bristlenose or two

Make sure water is flowing evenly around tank

Then after the two weeks gradually increase the lights and Co2, find a good balance, once established you dont need alot of Co2 and the light period could probably only be 8-10hrs. Also dont run the Co2 at night only have it going with the lights.

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Frank,

Thank you so much for your wise comments. I guess it show that I am &#8220;in the business&#8221; for only such a short time . I haven&#8217;t had a chance to log on since I last posted so I haven&#8217;t seen your entry until this morning, but guess what I did last night? I took a seat on the couch which is about 2 yards away from the tank. From there the tank looks quite nice. I in particular enjoyed watching the older fry swim up to the surface to grab some food. There must be about 10 of them that will join the school of adults rather sooner than later.

I also got your hint that a tank is a work in progress which is never completed. I agree, and I guess that&#8217;s what makes it so attractive. I think I once mentioned that I enjoy the road to success at least as much as the success itself. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.


jakieblak,

Thank you for your suggestions as well, sounds overall like a good plan. The problem here is that it would contradict the approach of the setup of this tank in particular and that various steps that you mention have been already considered/done. In detail:

- Cut down on the lighting --- The tank has 4 96W bulbs (details in profile) of which 2 are currently on for only 3 hours. So I guess this point has been implemented.
- Reduce or turn off the Co2 --- Is contradictive to other advice given here and to information received from the internet. Also interferes with the setup approach.
- Stop adding artificial nutrients --- This is the main problem. I follow a principal called Estimative Index established by our dear member Tom Barr. Here, overdosing is the key to success. If I would cut out the ferts and combine this with turning off the CO2 I would be back to a low tech tank. I know that this approach would most likely work, I have done that with my smaller tanks, but I decided upon a new challenge.
- Get a bristlenose or two --- Too much digging . I am eagerly waiting until my LFS gets some real Siamese Algae Eaters and then I will add one of these.
- Make sure water is flowing evenly around tank --- Is done already (but hasn&#8217;t been the case initially).

I have no doubt that your approach works, it just happens to be a different style of &#8220;tanking&#8221; than the one I have in mind. But maybe my lack of experience shows here as well as I might miss the point when enough tinkering is enough.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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tankie
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oh gosh...my head spinned after reading this long log....but its a joy to see the progress (the effort given despite tons of problems)


Last edited by tankie at 01-Nov-2005 14:28
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LITTLE_FISH
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Gang,

Guess what I got today?



Here are some hints:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:



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LITTLE_FISH
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And another hint:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:



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upikabu
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Duckweed?

ETA: Sorry, didn't see the second pic. Rasbora Hengeli?

ETA2: OK now that I see the last pic, you're making this a rasbora-only tank, aren't you?

Last edited by upikabu at 01-Nov-2005 20:15

Last edited by upikabu at 01-Nov-2005 20:16

-P
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LITTLE_FISH
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And a last hint:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:



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LITTLE_FISH
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upikabu

Noooo, way off you silly man

Ingo


EDIT: Even after your ETA2 you are way off

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 01-Nov-2005 20:18


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upikabu
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OK last guess: more Espei or growth hormone for your Espei fry?

Excuse: I can't think on an empty stomach...it's lunchtime!


-P
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LITTLE_FISH
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Good guess, but no

One more hint then: The Espei are only a tool, could have been anything else in the tank as well.

BTW, the fry in the second pic is about 7mm long.

Answer will follow tomorrow

Ingo


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O.K. Little_Fish now our freaking me out. :%)

Obviously your showing pregant espei, so you got more fry and there are eggs everywhere.

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LITTLE_FISH
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Before I post the solution what my excitement was all about:

tankie &#8211; thank you so much for reading all the entries in this post, I hope I will not have to pay for your medical bill for the eye surgery that you need now .

It makes me happy that someone is still willing to read all of that stuff.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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LITTLE_FISH
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Now to the "quiz" of what I got,

Ok, I am not willing to give it away yet (and maybe it is a much bigger deal for me than for you guys), but here is another clue:

And tetratech, I am surprised that it took you so long to freaked out by me .

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

Top = 5 days ago, bottom = last night

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 02-Nov-2005 08:00
[/font]


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Congrats! Your a grandfather /:'

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LITTLE_FISH
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Ok Ok,

Here is the solution:

No, I am not a grandfather yet (at least not with my Espei) and I am also not converting the tank to an Espei only paradise.

I guess I am the only one who thinks that the newer shot is much better than the older one, as they are the best I got (so far) of my Espei fry. And the reason why it is better: Well, I got a new camera .

I got all excited and nobody noticed the quality difference

Seriously, I hope that I will be able to take better pics of the tank, once I worked my way through the manual. It is a Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT.

Now, besides all the advice that you guys have given me so far on the tank I will need additional advice on how to take pictures .

Sorry to disappoint you if you may have thought there is more to it,

Ingo


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tetratech
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LF you tricked us, everyone was focused on things in front of the camera, but it was the camera itself.

That's a good camera, SLR isn't it. You should be able to get some awesome shots with it. I have a Canon S2 IS. I bought it mainly for the 12x optical zoom and image stablizer.

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upikabu
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Ach so...die Kamera!
I don't feel so bad now.

That third pic *is* really nice. I still remember the first (blurry) pic you posted of your 29g(?) way back when - definitely a big improvement.
Now you'll be able to actually show us real pics of all the algae you've been complaining about (if they really do exist).

Have fun with the new toy!


Last edited by upikabu at 02-Nov-2005 18:08

-P
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This Log is really nuts. You guys are a blast.... I think I might have to turn my planted 40 gallon into a log. Although I can't spend a bunch of cash on the thing like I would like to. Lets just say I did some math and the numbers are not all that great.......poor college kid with fish problems = issues.....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech &#8211; No I didn&#8217;t trick you, I said that the fish are only a tool and that it could have been anything in the tank. SLR &#8211; right.

upikabu &#8211; Good German there, not even a spelling error. Yeah, I also remember my very first picture posted here of my 29G. It was a scan of a &#8220;real&#8221; picture. The good old days.

Wingsdlc &#8211; I hope you mean nuts as in great . Thanks man, I appreciate it, make sure you see tetratech&#8217;s log as well as it is as least a entertaining as this one (same players involved) . And certainly should you create a log, but you better have a digital camera, scanning prints is no fun (and not good quality either).

And to upikabu&#8217;s stab () regarding my imaginary algae, here are some pics (still have to work on the camera settings though):

The lovely Xmas Moss

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Dwarf Sag

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Anubias with healthy bubbling algae attached

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NowherMan6
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Hey LF, congrats on the camera

Im a KM man myself, but an SLR is def the way to go. Take some time away from throwing all that cash at your tanks.... and start throwing it at a lens for your camera! Try an single focal length macro lens, like a 50mm/ 2.8 or a 90mm/2.8. As nice as the camera is, take a few shots with a lens like that and it'll blow you away

I guess I'm a little late to talk about the algae issue, but all I can say is, it'll go away soon enough. Frank is absolutely right. I had an identical algae issue to what it looks like you have right now and it took me probably 2 months or so to get it to go away for good. (I actually used the Flourish Excel method it's the planted tank equivilant of a magic potion, but I'm not going to argue with results) Bottom line is, patience is key.


Back in the saddle!
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LITTLE_FISH
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NowherMan6,

It is never too late to talk about my algae issues .

But tell me more about your Excel method. Did you have fry in the tank at that time? If not, any idea if it might be harmful?

And with regards to the camera, man I feel like a beginner yet again. I guess that&#8217;s the story of our lives, once you think you know something you move on to something else and start as a beginner yet again. I have a lens that I think goes from 50 to 108 (or something), is that not the same as the 50 macro lens? I know it&#8217;s a little off topic, but future readers will appreciate the better pictures. I quickly reviewed some macro lenses online, they run anywhere from $300 to $2,000.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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It is never too late to talk about my algae issues


That's a good thing, because there's nothin' I love talking about more than algae...

But first, the camera lenses. When it comes to good lenses, you need not buy them new. There's a website www.keh.com that sells lots of used equipment for all brands of cameras. The lens you have is fine, but as with all zoom lenses, it uses a lot of glass and different elements to create, and the more glass, usually the less sharp the resulting image. Manufacturers get around this by using different coatings etc. on certain lens elements and using superior glass in different lenses, but as you can guess, this results in a much higher price (into the $1000s). The point is, with zooms, you get what you pay for.

With fixed focal length lenses there's less glass and so generally less distortion which results in sharper images. Fixed focal length lenses are also easier and less expensive to make with wider apertures, which means they can let in more light, meaning you can use faster shutter speeds and use flash less often. Images will also appear brighter in the viewfinder, making it easier to focus manually. If you're ambitious look into a used 50mm macro lens or a 90 or 100mm macro lens. Either one should cost more than $300. As a matter of fact, Tamron makes a great 90mm macro that grades out very very well. If you don't think you're up for that yet, I would check out a 50mm/1.8 lens. very basic and very cheap, probably 70-80 bucks... but it provides much more bang for the buck IMO than a kit zoom lens.

As you can tell, I'm a huge fan I've shot thousands of film pics with nothing but a 24mm lens, a 50mm lens and later on a 90mm macro.

Woah, sorry for the tangent. Re: the algae. There really wasn't too much to it. I just dosed the Excel according to the bottle - every day or every other day, whatever it says - and do water changes as scheduled. As you go along remove as much as you can manually - remove whatever leaves it's on, pick it out of the gravel etc. (yes, in my outbreak it was growing out of the gravel... absolutely horrible) Sadly that'll mean removing a lot of your leaves , even the anubias, but the idea is to get them to grow back healthy and algae free. I think it took 2 weeks or so for it to start to disappear, gone within 3 weeks, if I remember correctly.

As for the fry, I didn't have any in the tank at the time, but I don't know why it'd be harmful to them. If you're nervous, dose every other day as opposed to every day. The way I saw it at the time, and the way I still see it is that it can't hurt to try.


Back in the saddle!
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houston
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OK Ingo if were living closer to you i'd make a point of coming over and beating on you, or at least harassing youall that guessing work to figure out what you got that was new, and it was a camera? Drive what is left of my brain out of it's senses:%)

Anyways I noticed a little something in the background of one of your pics that wasn't too blurryshall we play a guessing game here? I think it's only fair

While you sit and think or wander back and look i promise i won't take 15 pages to reveal my answer

I've got a new tank as welli actually won the raffle at the last HAS fish auction. nothing fancy but a nice little cubish 24 gallon Odyssea/Jebo set up with some pretty decent lightingthough i've been told it isn't quite the right lights i need anyways would ya'll tell me if this is what i think ya'll have referred to as "pearling"? there is not filtration on the tank right now, no CO2, just the lighting (2-65 watt 50/50 bulbs)

So is this pearling? thanks, heidi




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I swear I have no other idea why there would be those bubbles on the plants unless it is "pearling" and that the plants are happy

no to reveal what I happen to have noticed

back in the pick that showed the xmas moss on the rocks, i saw this

I know I know I get excited and happy over too little of things sometimesi apologize, heck something has to keep my spirits up Now the thread is returned

heidi



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Megil TelZeke
 
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looks like pearling to me heidi.

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NowherMan6 &#8211;

Thank you so much for your detailed explanation on camera lenses, I for sure will start my research today. There are 2 events coming up (Bday and Xmas) and I might be able to squeeze out a lense present.
The algae is getting worse so I started the Excel treatment (as recommended by you and tetratech) last night. An interesting fact is that the instructions on the 250ml bottle are the same than on the 2L bottle, meaning one cap for 10G (it also says 5ml) but the cap of the 2L bottle is multiple times the size of the small one . Glad I have both so I didn&#8217;t dose like a madman.
Thanks for both suggestions (Excel and lens).

Heidi &#8211;

Haven&#8217;t seen you in my thread for a while . Yes, definitely your fern ( ? ) is pearling. Did you take the picture shortly after you made a water change? Sometimes the CO2 in the tab water is enough to cause pearling; for sure in my tank it is more intense at the time of a water change.
And yes, you found another fry in the picture . But I have to be honest with you &#8211; these days it is hard to take a picture of my tank (that is not a super zoom) without getting any fry in the frame. They are all over the tank. The older ones form now lose groups towards the surface and yesterday I counted over 20 of just that age group. The younger ones are mostly close to the bottom or near plants and usually by themselves. That makes it harder to count them. Oh bliss of reproduction .

Ingo


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Here is a lesson in &#8220;Fools Ordering Online&#8221;

When considering the amount of food to purchase, try not to envision a Hamburger when comparing weight (6.8 oz / 193g). This will last for what, like a year .

Ingo

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How many fry are in my tank you ask? Well, in just this small area I counted 12.

Ingo

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And just for the fun of it, the whole tank. Tomorrow is water change day, I guess I will have to do quite some pruning (for size and algae reasons).

Ingo

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Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 04-Nov-2005 18:58
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HOLY COW your tank is beginning to look like a jungle How awesome I guess you win, now you definately have pictures of the fry

As for the water in the tank, nope that was like 3 days I believe into the setup, so I don't think it was the water change, and as of this morning 6 days after setup there is still just as much "pearling" as on the day I took the picture And it is Java Fern you see the pearling on though there is some Anubias (sp?) in the background

Now for the reason of not being by latelyit's been hectic and insane at work:#(seems absolutely nonstop, and I really haven't spent a lot of time on the forums like I would rather be doing, but work does come before funAt least the weekend is hereand the holidays are fast approaching, not that I really care one way or another, but heck I'll be able to be online a lot more I hope

heidi

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i popped in to see if there was anything newbut i suppose the jungle of a tank has swallowed ingo oh well, i'll wait till laters

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Week 6 Update (sorry I let the audience wait last night )

I spend another 5 hours yesterday &#8220;cleaning up&#8221; the tank and performing a major trimming. I hope I didn&#8217;t cut out too much.

Algae has manifested itself on the Glosso and I will have to try to defeat it without cutting it off the plants as this seems to be almost impossible. I saw for the first time some cupper red algae on the Xmas Moss, I think to remember that someone said this is the stage before it dies. Or maybe it is just a new type of algae in my collection .

I treat the tank since 2 days with 50ml Flourish Excel daily and I will keep on doing this for at least another week to see if it has any positive effect. The only reason I would stop is if I see a fish belly up. BTW fish, even when making a careful estimate I can say that there are at least 50 fry of all ages (well, maybe up to 5.5 weeks) of Espei in the tank. Soon it will be pretty crowded .

Instead of showing a summary over multiple weeks I will restrict the full tank pictures to before and after water change / trimming.

I also show a picture of an Espei, just for the fun of it. I posted the same picture in my new [link=Photo Booth thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Photo%20Booth/65976.html?200511052346" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] as well. There I will show pictures of fish from all my tanks. Go there, it is worthwhile .

So, here is the tank before cleaning

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Here it is after

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The Espei

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A close-up of the Rock Group, after a good cleaning the Xmas Moss always looks very nice, but just 2 days later it is a mess again ]:|

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Also, see the 2 Espei fry above the rocks

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 06-Nov-2005 06:41
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50ml Flourish Excel daily
That's 5 times the recommended dose, so I'd be careful going straight to that. After the initial dose of after a major WC the 50ml is good, but after that the normal dose for your size tank is 10-12ml for normal use, but your using it as an algacide, so maybe go 2 times normal and move up gradually from there.

BTW the tank looks really nice. Is that rotala growing between the rocks. IMO you need to get that bigger an taller.

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Nov-2005 07:13

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tetratech,

You are right, maybe I should reduce the subsequent dosings. So far I don't think I have done any damage as the first dose was the initial one and the second followed after a 50% water change.

So I will reduce to 20ml.

Thanks again,

Ingo

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see your edit
Yes, that is Rotala Macrandra at the back of the rocks. I am not sure yet if I like it there, I think it takes away from the depth vision of the group.

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Hey LF nice pics with the new camera....that shot of the espei is . Lots of new growth, which is great. It's only a matter of time before you see the last bit of algae get trimmed away. Good job!



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Thanks Matty,

I think I noticed quite a difference when the lights went on in the tank today.

The whole tank seems to be much clearer. The algae in the moss has become bright red, I am almost certain that it is dying. The same phenomenon has started now in other areas of the tank as well.

The Moss

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The tank again, I don&#8217;t know if you can see a difference (all small spots are actually fry and not dirt)

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LF, wow it looks much better, think it's the Excel. From a scaping point of view it looks better now that you removed the tall plants that were right next to rock valley.

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Thanks tetratech,

I know that I still have miles to go until one can really speak about Aquascape, now it is more of a coincidal positive arrangement .

I also believe it is the Excel that causes this, I wonder what will happen once I stop it.

THIS IS THE 400th POST IN THIS THREAD

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2. Many people have had success using Flourish Excel for many algae types. You could double dose this and see what happens.

Just remember who recommended excel, even if it's a tease of what you tank will be like without algae
No only kidding, keep the excel going and you can also slowly minimize dosage until you reach a critical level.
If the algae really does go away, you tank might be better equipped to handle it now than when the algae first got hold. I have removed all willow branches and floating cuttings from my tank and it seem very stable right now.


400 Posts. I guess your more popular than me
What's the record?

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Nov-2005 13:56

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tetratech,

I remember very well who was the first to recommend the Excel method

And I remember who was the first one to recommend cutting out the ferts

And no, I am not more popular, you just do the math wrong:

402 posts at 125G = 3.216 Posts per Gallon
297 posts at 72G = 4.125 Posts per Gallon

So per gallon I cannot reach your popularity by a long shot .

Ingo


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402 posts at 125G = 3.216 Posts per Gallon


When you say "cut" do you mean, reduce. Well it would be in your thread somewhere. I really have been dosing my tank on a very minimal level without a problem. I've come to realize that the algae is feeding off things so small you can't measure it with any test kit and the plants aren't that far above them. The rest is just luxury that sets in the water column. If the light is there the algae will grow just from the tap waste.

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Well Ingo the tank is looking great thanks for letting us know the spots are not dirt, rather fryand to think i was fixing to start cleaning the computer screen}

So I have a question for youmaybe i've read it and forgotten it, my brain is getting older and wearier these days, but what is this, in the background on the glass? I don't remember you adding a pleco of sortsor did i miss that



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Megil TelZeke
 
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looks like an otocinclus to me heidi. One with a very full tummy.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 06-Nov-2005 16:29

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it's from the picture belowbut really turned out fairly well after being blown up 300%

Otherwise it is looking really nice the tank

I seriously need to start a log of my 24 gallonI know it won't be nearly as much fun or interest as this one has been, but it would be nice to get ya'll's feed back, though I absolutely refuse right now to do CO2 on that tanknot yet anyways...I'll just keep the lighting that i have

heidi

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Heidi,

I also vote Oto and I feel your pain about wanting to start a log but feeling like you can't hang with these big dowgs!

Also, I am glad the Excel did it for you. I used to use the stuff all the time until I went broke.........

It happens when you decide to get married......not married yet but I will be in may. Lets just say that marrage and college should be very carefuly mixed with a fish problem.

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Heck I might just start one to irritate the "Little_Fish" and any reason is a good reason to post about a tank right Well, definately gotta take more pics of the tank if I decide to start a log of the tankand there is no time like the presenthml

EDIT: You are definately right, marriage, college, and fish keeping should be carefully mixed otherwise you have no funding for anything Thus, no college, no spouse, only fishkeeping, and i'm still with no fundingit all goes to the fish and the job:%)

Last edited by houston at 06-Nov-2005 16:48

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Yup, Megil is right, it is an Oto

And Heidi, there is no requirement at FP that you would have to have CO2 to write a log . Just go to the aquascaping forum and look at my 20G and 29G log (although it is not listed in the last 14 days option).

And tetratech, proudly I say that I have not budged and followed the EI from beginning to today .

Wingsdlc &#8211; does your fianc&#233;e like fish? And don&#8217;t worry about logs and big dowgs, I have no idea what I am doing .

Ingo

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Also, the fact that I list my fish in my profile makes it easier to guess what fish might be in a picture.

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LIttle_Fish,

She likes fish. Not quite like I like fish but she seems to like them. Normaly the bigger the better the fish is for her. I guess that means I can build my super tank and breed some big new worlds someday.

This weekend she actualy suprized me with some fish information. I guess she really does love me.

For our wedding reception I though out a random idea of putting fish on all the tables. Something like bettas in small vases. She actual thought it would be neat. Now the trick is to see if we can get them for super cheap somewhere and figure out what to do with them after wards because I don't want 30 some bettas!

P.S. Think I could pull off a log for my planted 40 gallon? Should I make this a log?

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Wingsdlc,

I don&#8217;t know about this Betta idea, sounds like you either have to take all of them or trust your guests to create a proper environment for them if they should keep them. Scary.

Can you pull of a log? Sure you can, everybody can. A log does not have to begin at a setup of a completely new tank. I think I would not use your existing thread as a log as it has already a life on its own, if you know what I mean. I would say you should find a point in time where there is more to do then just moving things from left to right. How about a major rescape .

And I would suggest that you either link your pictures directly into the thread (so people don&#8217;t have to click on a link to see some shots) or, even better , you become a premie and attach your images to your posts. I see various older logs that originally had embedded images from some photo collection sites, but once you remove the image from there you have a dead link here.

Hope this helps,

Ingo


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Little_Fish,

That was the major problem with the Betta's was what kind of home they might be going to.

As for the log.....I will probably wait until I get some sweet cash flow and time play with stuff. I need to steel my friends camera again and take some more picters. I have moved stuff around a bit, put up a background, and started putting moss on the DW. I really want to get some low growing plants but I haven't found what I wanted yet. Plus I am poor...

Thanks for your help!

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Tonight it clearly feels as if a new season in my tank&#8217;s development is starting.



Almost all the algae is retreating and the Espei fry is starting to swim in formation. But as usual, all good things have a bad side &#8211; what are the Otos and the fry going to eat when all the algae is gone? We will see&#8230;

Within 3 days of adding Flourish Excel the tank becomes a delight. based on tetratech&#8217;s advice I reduced subsequent dosing to 20ppm.

Here is a not so good shot of the Espei fry in school formation right below the surface (I think there are 11 in this pic)

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And, just in time for a nice clean tank, a new blossom on one of my Anubias Barteri

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Sounds like a good time to kick back grab a beer and really enjoy your tank. Then you can get to the scaping phase, but I would enjoy watching the algae shrivel up and die a horrible death.

BTW - Where in the word is Bensaf ]:|

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DIE ALGAE, DIE

Yeah, that sounds good &#8211; sitting back and enjoying the view. But I think I am a worrier by nature. It keeps my brain busy to think about all the awful things that can happen now.

As I said earlier, I wonder what the fry and the Otos will eat. On the other hand, I certainly have enough fry that is large enough to eat my small flakes and maybe it is only right that the population growth in the tank is stopped.

The good thing about having fry is that they grow slowly and as such increase the tanks bio load gradually and beneficial bacteria are getting enough time to increase in numbers. I think I will wait a little before adding new fish to the tank, but the one I am keen on would be the Pearl Gouramy. I am not sure if its ph requirements are compatible with my tank, but as tetratech said in his thread &#8220;I will have to do more research before I go out and buy&#8221;.

Ingo

PS: I certainly hope Bensaf is only on a long vacation, we shall call the Jakarta police if he doesn&#8217;t show up soon.


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I wouldn't worry about the otos. If the algae disappears they will eat the algae wafers. When I drop when in they are all over it.

The fry can probably eat flake food. Just grind some it between your fingers. Even with excel doing it's magic, there will be plenty in their for them to eat.

I'm not big on gourmais, I thing Bensaf has quite a few.
I guess will give him another week, before we contact the authorities.


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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I remember bensaf saying somewhere that since the end of ramadan was coming up, a lot more bars would be open the week after it ended, therefore he'd be spending more time...well... out enjoying the pub life

Like I said, that may have been a while ago, and I may also be nuts, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned somethign along those lines...

Also glad to see the excel method is working for you too


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Yeah,

Bensaf mentioned the bars. I hope he didn&#8217;t get shanghaied while being drunk and is now sitting on some pirate ship setting the sails .

Why no Gouramies, tetratech? I think the pearl look similar to Keyhole Cichlids (to some degree).

Yeah NowherMan6, I saw the effects of the Excel within 2 days only, just amazing.

Ingo


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I guess gourmais are just not my thing. I think with the long fins in the front they are somewhat too "how should I put it" delicate looking.



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Actually I did kinda like this gourmai



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That's a Sphaerichthys osphromenoides, aka Chocolate Gourami, as listed in our profiles (although almost all the pictures seem to be wrong).

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 08-Nov-2005 13:03


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BTW - Where in the word is Bensaf


The beginning of last week was Idul Fitri, which is the biggest Muslim holiday (marks the end of Ramadhan) and starts the longest holiday period in Indonesia. Basically the whole country shuts down for 2 weeks and everyone either goes home to their family or goes on holiday. Sort of like Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays combined. My guess is Bensaf either went abroad or visited his wife's family in Kalimantan (Borneo). Hardly any bar would be open during this period as there would be no customer. I bet he'll be back next week.

Last edited by upikabu at 08-Nov-2005 18:19

-P
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Yes, Ingo can countat least to 11that or I can't count eitherand that could be a possibility

Anyways would the Flourish (i think that is what you're using to get rid of algae) kill off the black algae that is starting up in my 2.5 tank at school? It's irritating the snot out of me, and with it being allergy season that is saying a lot

love the fry, but why not add a betta to the tank

*goes to hide* hml

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Houston you have a problem?

That Black stuff looks like BGA which really isn't an algae but a bacteria. You can do a blackout or use Erethromycin(EM)tablets. I bet that tank is near a window or something. BGA is caused by too much light and not enough nitrate.



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Upikabu &#8211; Thanks for this update, I guess we will give him one more week, but that&#8217;s it

Heidi &#8211; I hope you have a hankie ready . As tetratech says, if it is BGA (Blue-Green Algae) then the best treatment would be some form of Erethromycin, I personally used the Maracin I tablets in my tanks. If it is BBA (Black-Beard-Algae) then the Excel should help.

Ingo


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Oh,

I forgot to mention an observation I made during the last couple of days, maybe the Excel recommenders would be able to comment.

Ever since I started to add the Excel the bubbling of my plants has been reduced to almost nothing. The bubble count is the same for at least the last 2 weeks.

Do you have a similar experience?

Ingo


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Same for me. I started using it about the same time as you and what I took for "pearling" has stopped. I am just assuming that what I had was algae "boiling and bubbling." I have less algae now after several cleanings and the Excell but it hasn't totally stopped growing on the leaf edges and such.

Great log BTW.

jan
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Ok the tank isn't by a window, it has a black out from Friday at 5 pm to about 8 am on Monday every week...
The lights are only on from about 8 am to 5 pm each day...does that help anything? I'm also doing a 100% water change on the tank and cleaning everything every week
So what's the problem with this tank? Grrrrrr, i'm understanding what you were going through and still going through with that algae Ingo:%)

OK tomorrow I'll take pictures of the "yuck" and post in my own thread

Thanks for the help...now back to Little_Fish's thread

What do you mean we have no new pictures tonight? I was hoping for more pictures, ok i'm out of herenight night, Houston

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Thanks puddle cat and Heidi for the input,

I was busy last night taking a few shots of my [link=29G Setup]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/61406_3.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link].

I only have a few updates on this tank. One thing that I saw last night was that my Egeria Najas is completely melting away . I have no idea why, maybe the Excel, or the fact that I trimmed all of it last weekend and it doesn&#8217;t like that (although it didn&#8217;t melt other times), or it finally had enough from sitting in the water stream of the spraybar (far away, but within its current).

On page 13, I asked a question about one of my plants as I can&#8217;t identify it. I assumed it is an Alternanthera reineckii "roseafolia" and Bensaf verified that finding. But yesterday my Amano books arrived and in one of them he has a picture of a tank with all green plants and one red, called Althernanthera sessilis. It looks to me as if that is that plant. Anyone can clarify this? I didn&#8217;t order it, but quite a few plants in my order had been substituted.

Ingo

Here is the plant in question:

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Ingo,

I know for a fact that Elodea/Anacharis (Egeria densa), which is in the same family as Egeria najas, is extremely sensitive to Excel (mentioned in my recent thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Photo%20Booth/66106.html?08507044#[/link]). I've experienced this firsthand in all 3 of my tanks. Everytime I added Excel (even less than recommended amount and not as often), the Elodea immediately melted away, while the other plants are unaffected. It baffled me initially, especially since it's been growing so well in my 42g for over 3 months (I only added Excel to it once, to try to get rid of BBA). It wasn't until I saw [link=this plantedtank.net profile that I realized Excel was the culprit. Once I stopped applying Excel, the remaining plant eventually did grow back.

My guess is Excel has a similar effect to Egeria najas.

Last edited by upikabu at 10-Nov-2005 05:41

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As I mentioned you can't be all things to all fish and plants. Eventually you have to see what works well with your conditions and go with that set. That is really the key. Otherwise you're constantly setting conditions that will have a counter effect on something else. LF - So your reading up on the master
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upikabu,

Thank you for this update, I guess that means we found the culprit
It is not too much of a problem though as I think all the people who said that I have too many stems anyway are right (first one was Bensaf). This means that I can go out and find dome nice replacements .

tetratech,

Yeah, I am learning from the master himself.
I have to say that my initial reaction was being disappointed. As soon as the package arrived I opened it and started with book 1 (I got all 3, plus the Tropica Catalogue) and I couldn&#8217;t find any mentioning of what plants are used in the tanks. Next day I took the book 3 on the bus commute and in there (and in book 2) are the names of the plants. Book 3 because it is large tanks

Ingo

PS: anyone any idea about this plant above?


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Wow, you went for the whole collection. Your going to be an Amano apprentice for sure. I just have the first cheapo book "Aquarium Plant Paradise" that came out before the 3 big volumes. Amano's books I think are more visual than detailed analysis.

I don't know the plant you have in question. Where in the world is Bensaf when you need him.





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Wow, you went for the whole collection.


What can I say, once I have an obsession I follow through with it .

Remember that I am &#8220;in the business&#8221; for only 9 months now and I already have 3 tanks, one of which it this high tech beauty. I am old, I have no time to waste .

Ingo


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Whatever floats your boat. Speaking of boats, I think we are in the same one. I'll be 43 in May

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No f*ing way

You, Bensaf, and I, we are all in the same boat, Bensaf being the senior and you the junior, but still within a 7 month time span.

I can see all of us in a small rowboat paddling on the great lake of life, already able to see the other shore.

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Yes f'ing way

Although I thing Bensaf is already in a rowboat with Plantbrain and Amano in some remote south american location looking for new species of flora. I understand the excurison will last years.

I can't wait to see what they've discovered

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Pardon my interruption of this conversation regarding your advanced ages (), but LF, I have a question, if you don't mind:

I've been looking over all the pics of your espei fry. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't espei closely related to harlequin rasboras? If so, how did you get them to breed so easily? I've read some sources that say harlies are fairly easy to breed, but most say it's very diffcult... yet yours seem to be breeding like jackrabbits, or like multis (the jackrabbits of the aquarium)

What's your secret, do you do anything special? I assume your water is soft with a low pH because of the CO2... anything else?


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Pardon my interruption of this conversation regarding your advanced ages
Nowher I'm afraid to ask how old you are?

**BENSAF UPDATE**
All I can say is that he is alive. Anything further would be an invasion of his privacy.




Last edited by tetratech at 10-Nov-2005 16:54

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I actually turn 23 on Saturday... and I already feel old

Good to hear Bensaf is alive and well, cheers for the update


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NowherMan6,

Well my son , you mentioned something that I had observed myself. On one hand I wanted to keep it a secret (at least until the fry is big) on the other I couldn&#8217;t wait to scream it out. I am very well aware of the fact that most references to Espei say that they are extremely difficult to breed, with requirements like a ph of 5 to 6 (which I never had). Just look at the FP profile for this fish (soon I will suggest a bunch of updates).

I am a little embarassed, but I am (was) considering to submit an article to TFH, or at least a detailed question reading the rareness of my breeding success. Also, I was thinking of writing an article here for FP called something like &#8220;Beginner&#8217;s Luck&#8221;.

But I decided to do more research if this fry explosion is really that rare. I already found one website where a Scandinavian reports of easy breeding success. As disappointing as it is to find others with the same success, as helpful it is to avoid making false statements.

I just think my Espei love the messed-up environment, with loads of different algae types to feed on. Nevertheless, now that there is much less algae I still have a large number of very young fry (few days old).

It also could be that nowadays the Espei come from a farm and have become much easier to breed, but that is a pure guess on my side.

Good observation NowherMan6,

Ingo

PS: A toast to Bensaf, wherever he may be right now.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 10-Nov-2005 17:58


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*Raises glass of uh tea? to Bensaf* Take us with you

Anyways, I wish my harlies would get in the mood, but then again I might just lose all my mind if they went after itMy metaes are enough to drive me crazy

So Ingo, could the "little red plant" be acting like a crypt and melting away, but will regnerate (so I've been told) after a bit? Don't worry, by the looks of the tank I don't suspect you will lose it all

heidi

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Heidi,

You misunderstood. The little red plant seems to be just fine, it is a green stem plant on the right of the rock valley (in the back) that is melting (Egeria Najas) .

I easily have now 50 Espei fry of all ages in the tank, I think I would be able to keep maybe 30 (plus the 12 adults) and I will have to see what to do with the rest. Maybe it is soon time to get some Pearl Gouramies, I think they might like "a snack" .

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ok what can I say yesterday, was a bad bad bad day, and this week yeah that explains itor rather

same thing, maybe it will regrow? heck if i know...and if you're just going to feed the fry to a gourami ship them southi might be able to find room for them

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Well,

What can I say, I am a fool. I just spent 6 hours messing with the tank (including water change), hoping to make it look better by moving plants around. Honestly, I think it is just as &#8220;unorganized&#8221; as it was before .

Without further comment, here are a bunch of pictures from the process:

Before the Reorganization

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With Plant Group on the right removed

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With Corkscrew Vals removed

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Back of Rock Valley planted with Corkscrew Vals

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Rest of Tank replanted

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A close-up of the Corkscrew laid out for replanting

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The school of Espei fry in the open space during replant

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A closeup of Rock Valley, the only part I kinda like

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With all of that, the Egeria Najas, Rotala Rotundifolia, and the last (sorry tetratech) Wisteria are gone.

I also repositioned to spray bar so it is horizontal just below the surface on the left tank side. I think the current created by this arrangement is strong enough, so I also removed the last power head that I had in the tank.

In addition, I stopped adding Excel, let&#8217;s see how quickly the algae can return.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 12-Nov-2005 16:50


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LF,
Wow you've been busy. I hope the wife took you out for a nice dinner after that.

I definitely like the Corkscrews behind rock valley. I think you need to decide if your going to keep that focal point or do something more random with groupings and pieces of hardscape. I'm sure you'll get some good ideas from all those Amano pics. Right now your tank looks like two tanks:



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I hope the wife took you out for a nice dinner after that


Right, sure .

How excited do you think she was after I disappeared for 6 hours into the basement ?

Very very good observation tetratech, it surely looks like two tanks. My vision went only so far as I knew what to put behind the Rock Valley. The rest was more like &#8220;where do I put all the plants now?&#8221; Honestly, I like the Rock Valley much better. I guess I will look around for loads of tall grassy plants.

Ingo

Just now I looked at the tank and on the right hand side is an Espei fry meeting. Unfortunately the pictures didn&#8217;t come out well (I will show one of only 5), but there were at least 30 &#8220;older&#8221; fry hanging out in formation, COOL.

Here are the 5:

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Good Heavens I haven't been here in ages, but am just in time for the new pictures!

Wow LF everything looks to be growing really well, I get what Tetratech said about two tanks, hmmmm. I never really understood why you didn't put rock valley in the middle but I guess that would look a little staged and too garden like rather then river like.

am very sleepy but just wanted to say it looks brillant

GFG
xx

ps where is bensaf? I want to start my 5 gallon and need to pick his brains.


Last edited by goldfishgeek at 12-Nov-2005 19:09

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I like the rock and grass and really enjoy the third pic you posted it's truly my favorite Now at least you know where the fry are hidingmaybe that lends a clue as to where the adults are going This is exactly why I refuse to try and aquascape, I can't organize a room, much less plants in a tank

And I don't suppose your wife was happy for you to disappear for 6 hrsso did you take her out for dinner to make up for it? That might help heidi

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GFG,

Thanks for the encouragement.

In general, using the middle of a tank as a focal point is not a good idea. The old Chinese (I think) found out that harmony for the human eye is created by a &#8220;golden rule&#8221; of division which takes any length, divides it by 2.6 (roughly) and then puts the focus on the 1 mark either from the left or right. So, as an example, a tank of 72 inches length, divided by 2.6 gives you about 27.7 inches. You should put the focus about 27.7 inches either from the left or right.

Heidi,

No, I didn&#8217;t take her out to dinner. Instead she spent the afternoon and evening with her friend and I took care of the kids. That is worth 10 dinners . And the fry is always hiding all over the tank, too many for one spot only.

Ingo


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Weekly Log Update &#8211; Week 7

A few things have happened since last week, in particular the algae has been defeated and a replant concluded in two distinct layouts, let&#8217;s call them Left Tank and Right Tank (thanks to tetratech who identified the split).

I treated the tank for one week with Flourish Excel, 2 x 50ml and 5x 20ml, with the result that pretty much all algae has gone. The only noticeable negative side effect was that the Egeria Najas didn&#8217;t like the Excel and melted away. A small price to pay .

The replant didn&#8217;t conclude in an optimal tank, but I think it gives me a better idea of where to go from here. Maybe I will leave it like this for a while so the plants can settle, but on the other hand I am already itching to move on. Darn addiction.

Since about 3 weeks I have the following fertilizer and water change routine:

Sat &#8211; 50% water change
Sat &#8211; 2tsp Baking Soda
Sat &#8211; 0.5tsp Seachem Equilibrium
Sat, Mon, Wed &#8211; 1tsp KNO3 and 0.25tsp K2SO4
Mon, Wed &#8211; 0.125tsp KH2PO4
Sun, Tue, Thu &#8211; 0.5tsp Plantex (+ Iron)

I would say that I inject about 4 to 5 bps of CO2.

Here is a series of tank development pictures.

Week 1 (one week after setup), plants starting to grow in

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Week 3, tank is becoming a jungle, in particular the right hand side (Water Sprite)

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Week 5, most of the weeds (Water Sprite and Wisteria) have been removed, first smaller replant took place

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Week 7, today, after major replant

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Ingo it is definately looking nice and 2 tanks in 1? heck who can beat that

Glad you gave the wife a night off to go and spend with her buddies without the twins and you're right that is worth 10 dinners at least so is quite fair

Again the tank is looking good...

houston

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most of the weeds (Water Sprite and Wisteria) have been removed
]:|]:|]:|

Please refrain from calling Wisteria a weed. Mine is very smart and I've trained it to crawl. It's taking up a consirable amount of real estate in my tank and I'm proud to display it in my avatar

Last edited by tetratech at 14-Nov-2005 07:05

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Funny, they only become weeds when you get tired of pruning them...

It's not their fault they like your tank so much!


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Heidi,

Thanks for letting me know that you like the tank. It is not really want I want in the long run, but at least it gives me more ideas of what might look good. Maybe I should get another 125G and make one like the left of this tank and the other like the right *hides from the wife*.

tetratech,

I knew I could pull your strings when I wrote this. But you know that it served only in a temporary role in my tank, namely helping me to get established. BTW, I wonder how established I am after replanting anything larger than 3 inches.

NowherMan6,



All,

Last night I did a rough headcount on the number of fry. Just counting the larger ones, I guess they are between 3 and 7 weeks old, I came up with over 50. I guess I am stocked .

Ingo


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I knew I could pull your strings when I wrote this.
I guess you have my number on that one.

BTW, I wonder how established I am after replanting anything larger than 3 inches.
Sorry missed that one, what do you mean?

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tetratech,

With established I meant the plant mass. I know the water and the filter should be established now, but loads of plants have to reestablish the root system.

On another note, I went to the LFS to look for plants that could be used in my &#8220;left&#8221; tank. Nothing, nada&#8230;
All they had were tiny sprouts that would take months to grow to a feasible size. I will have to keep on looking as I also couldn&#8217;t find anything reasonable online.
While I was there I &#8220;inspected&#8221; the pearl gouramies. It was just a get-to-know kind of thing, trying to sex them, seeing how aggressive they are to each other, etc.

Here are some new pictures, beginning with another plant identification question. I posted this plant before but it was rather shaded at that time. Now it is in the open (the tall one way in the corner). I got it as a 3 inch long stem mixed into the large plant order I received when setting up the tank 7 weeks ago.

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A Ramshorn munching on algae (I hope) on the Glosso

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An Oto resting on my dwarf sag, BTW I was able to count all 6 that I should still have, I haven&#8217;t been able to do that in quite some time

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Tank from the right

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And last but not least tank from the left

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Nice pics LF, especially the one of the ramshorn. I found those snails to be incrediblly destructive, although in your 125 I wouldn't worry. I had them in my 12g and moved them out to my sons palidium tank along with the bristlenose.

I really like what you did with the corkcrews behind the rocks. I think you need more red in the corners and slope down with green toward the rocks.

Last edited by tetratech at 15-Nov-2005 06:50

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Quick Question:

Does anyone know anything about the plant Isoetes Lacustris, aka Octopus plant, aka Quillwort?

[link=Here is a drawing of it]http://caliban.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/lindman/519.jpg" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link]

I saw 3 of them at my LFS yesterday and I might go out tonight to buy them.

Thanks,

Ingo


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LF, That looks like an onion plant. I've seen those at Aquarium Adventure.

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tetratech,

Onion Plants are of the genus Crinum, this must be something different, I guess?

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Ok,

I bought the Isoetes Lacustris, they had 3 plants left. It is the tall round grassy plant in front of the Red Rubin Sword. Also, there has to be an Espei Fry in the picture

What do you think?

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Well,

I also bought another plant and forgot its name as soon as I arrived at home. It is a crypt, but for the live of it I cannot remember what the second part was. All I remember is that it started with S (I think). It&#8217;s longest leaf is about 10 inches long and it was sold to me as a plug and I put it in the tank as one piece. The leave structure is thin and long and green. It looks a lot like it could be Cryptocoryne Albida. And one can second this? The reason why I am not sure about this is that Albida should be only up to 10cm tall, this one is much larger.

This plant also had a second surprise for me, as can be seen in This Thread]:|.

Here it is, the thin leaved plant in the center of the picture

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LF,
Enjoy your new plants, can't help you with the IDs that's a job for Bensaf. LF some of your plant questions might be better answered at APC.

BTW - I just got back from one of my LFS and I bought another bolivian ram and as stupid as this sounds 4 more cardinals. This is a different LFS than the other one I bought the first 10 from. I almost bought a croaking gourami, but I did't like the way it looked.



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I just finished all 20 pages of this thread. I love your tank! It definitely makes my wee 25 gal. look like I just threw a bunch of plants in and planted them where they landed! Way back on page 4 or 5 Tetratech mentioned his tank was clear in the morning and hazy in the evening, this happened in my 2 gal. what I was able to find out was it was a bacterial bloom, the bacteria 'hide' at night and come out by day, forming a haze by evening. My source recommended less light and a mild anti-bac, I used mela-fix at half dose and this seemed to take care of it. Anyway, I didn't see any other advice and thought I'd throw it out there. I'm new (first year) to fish-keeping, and very new to this forum so I'm poking around and getting all kinds of big dreams for future tanks. I can identify with having three kids, a hubby and my herd dog all feeling abandoned when I go into fish mode. Anyway great thread, love the pics, I will definitely be checking back.



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tetratech,

Doesn&#8217;t sound stupid to me, you want to build up your group and one setback should not change your goals. On the other hand, I did the same to my ever dwindling group of Neons, just kept on buying new ones. Now I have enough, I must have bought about 25 over time and I have 2 left &#8211; no more. I will have to read up on the croaking gourami, sounds interesting.

luvmykrib,

Wow, now that is impressive. Reading all these pages is quite a challenge. Thank you for your comments about the tank and thread. Don&#8217;t worry about your tank being just a random plant storage facility ([link=My 20G]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/63901.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] is the same), just hang around at FP and don&#8217;t be shy asking questions and in no time you will be a happy plant keeper . I like your Mammals in your profile and I certainly agree on the kids.

Ingo


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Ok,

I haven't posted to my thread in more than 24 hours and begin to get the feelings of withdrawal . Well, I have something to ask you guys:

I ordered a few more plants and I wonder if you have something to tell me about them (except the obvious).

They are:

Aponogeton Crispus
Cryptocoryne Lucens
Ech. Uruguayensis

Supposedly they will arrive on Saturday. If the plants are of any decent size then a major major major replant will have to be done. Plants will have to be moved throughout my 3 tanks, swapping things all around. For example, I would like to add some of the Star Grass to the big one from the 20, some of the Tenellus from the 29 to the big one, Bacopa to the 29, Ludwigia to the 20, and so forth.

Ingo


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Apon crispus is a beautiful plant, I've seen them quite large. I see you're going for more rooted, bigger plants. Any reason for the change, or you just liked the way they look?


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Yup NowherMan6,

There are reasons.

1) Bensaf says so (he really did tell me to go for less stem plants, for maintenance purposes).
2) Ever since I broke up my tank into 2 last weekend (see major replant entries about 1 or 2 pages back) I began to like the right hand side much better. There, I have more stringy type plants and the new ones would fall more into that schemata (I hope)
3) Wow, the shortest list ever written by me, I have only 2 reasons.

Why, do you think that it is a bad idea?

As a piece of info for all readers: Aponogeton Crispus is supposedly one of the few (if not the only one) of the Apon family that does not require a dormant period in the aquarium.

Ingo


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LF,

The Ech. Uruguayensis where would you position that. It almost looks like a big swordplant?

Also LF, you've grown alot of Rotala Rotundala(Indicia) what do you think is the lowest amount of light it will grown in. You know I throw some cuttings in my 12 gallon and it only has about 1.1 wpg cf.



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tetratech,

yes, Uruguayensis is a big sword that I plan to put on the left side of the tank (somewhere), I will have to see how all the new plants look like once they arrive. I will get 3 of the other two plants each. All my Ludwigia and Bacopa will be removed (sniff), I think. That will leave me with very few stems.

Rotala grew very well for me in my 29G at 40W, so about 1.3wpg. If all goes well this weekend though it will be bye bye for it, as it got stringy and thin. The Bacopa will move in its place (I have 65W on the tank now), although the whole tank will change in its plant positioning.

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Rotala grew very well for me in my 29G at 40W, so about 1.3wpg

That's good to hear, but why is it stringy and thin. Did you not want to bother replanting tops or did you do that and it still didn't grow well. What other conditions was it growing in. (Excel, ferts, etc.)

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tetratech,

I never took out existing stems, all I did was to add new cuttings to increase the size of the group (that is the main reason for the stringy part). They develop a bigger (not giant) root system and I didn&#8217;t like the idea of having a big mess in the water column.

Ferts etc.: Any condition was fine. Initially I only had Flourish Excel, Iron, and Flourish and I never dosed on a schedule. Then I added Flourish Potassium, and later Flourish Nitrate. In the end (now) I add only Flourish Excel and my dry elements from the 125G setup (less dosage) and only once every 2 weeks (too infrequent, I know, but I have been busy with this tank).

Ingo


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O.K. Thanks!

I think your on a good path by going with the look of your right tank.

There really isn't a right or wrong, it's what's gonna make you happy when you pull up that chair and look at your tank. You have alot of space to fill up so your job is definitely more difficult than mine. I think when you setup that rock valley that was more "Amano-like", but the rest is more "Dutch" I think you have to go one way or other other.

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Just goes to show you what a real challange it is to aquascape and get a unifying flow or theme in a tank as large and long as a 125. When i was looking through your log for bensaf's remarks re: trimming plants I noticed i was thinking to myself that if (when ) I someday get a tank that large I'm just going to fill it with huge pieces of branchy driftwood - maybe a sword or two - and have it as a large SA cichlid tank. Seems MUCH easier to hardscape than to aquascape with plants. If you had a big ol' piece of DW in there, or more extensive rock work it probably would make things much easier.

I give you all the credit in the world for trying, LF.

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 17-Nov-2005 13:59


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Thanks NowherMan6,

Driftwood was my original plan, but I cannot get my hands on any decent sized piece for the life of it. And believe me, I tried hard.

I have a few more of the same rocks at home and I am considering to add some of them this weekend. The problem there is the limited height of the rocks, none is as tall as the Rock Valley group.

Thanks again,

Ingo

And tetratech, Amano-style - Dutch-style, I call mine the Ingo-style .

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 17-Nov-2005 14:07


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The Crispus is a good choice. Definitely a background plant and a space filler. Lightning fast grower, expect a new leaf to hit the surface every couple of days. In good conditions it has a beautiful shade of green and a nice soft texture. Had one in the old tank, but it didn't fit into the new set up unfortunately.

The Uruguaysenis is a real nice sword, one of my favourites, still have one. Not a tank buster by any means, but quite variable depending on conditions. I actually like to use it as a mid ground plant as I like the way the narrow upright leaves show off other plants to good effect. You'll have to see what size you get when it arrives.

Lucens is a real nice crypt. Get's a lot taller then the normal Willisii so it's not a foreground plant. Plant it tight, 3 plants at least together, don't spread it out too much. It's a slow grower (it'll take a few weeks before it does anything) but give it time and plant as above and it will turn into a beautiful thick bunch in a few months.

Going back a bit, nobody answered your plant id questions. The stem plant is strange. Looks a little like Bacopa but at the same time doesn't. Definitely nor Caroliania, maybe Monnieri . But there&amp;'s a voice in the back of my head screaming Rotala Macrandra "Green" variety , but I'm trying to ignore the voices screaming in my head.

The Crypt is Retrospiralis.

As to the aquascape. Well of course you like the right side better , it's more natural, and uncluttered then the other side. It's quieter. Not mad keen on Corkscrew Val. It's too "gimmicky" looking. Something really thin leaved like Val. Nana or Natans, Cyperus Helfiri . Tall crypts like Balansae or Spiralis would be about the same width as the Corscrew but much more aged and natural looking.

As for the left side well I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's damn near impossible to 'scape a tank with plants only. There needs to be an anchor to build the scape around, driftwood or rocks. The left side has no anchor . You don't need the perfect piece of wood, a few crappy branchy pieces can be built up. A big percentage of the wood should be hidden anyway. You can try something with smaller rocks , moss them up , anubias in the gaps etc, you just need something "solid" looking. Failing that bigger plants like Swords/Nymphaea can be used and the stems built around them . Lastly a previous suggestion bigger, wider more striking stem plants in a thick group would help - Limnophilia Aromatica, Ludwigia Cuba , Ammania Gracillis etc.


Last edited by bensaf at 17-Nov-2005 22:00


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Welcome back Boss ,

Hope you had a good time.

To sum up my response to your entry:

You are right, and you are right, and, hm, you are right

I am not too wild about the Corkscrew Vals either, but you have to work with what you got. I was seriously trying to get some Cyperus Helferi, but to no avail. It would be my first choice. I might use the Aponogeton Crispus in its place, will have to see how that looks though.

Driftwood is always a big problem here, all pieces are small and if you find a long one it is also very thick (not to say ugly). I have maybe one piece at home that I could plug in there, but I think it would look lost in this big of a tank. I will try to add more of my rocks, I played with them last night (arranging some to a group) but it didn&#8217;t look all that good. An additional concern with placing wood/rock on the left hand side (more than the 2 that I have already) was that it would create a second focal point. This morning though it dawned on me that a 6 foot long tank should be able to handle more than one main area. Do you (all of the guys) agree?

Bensaf, I&#8217;m glad that you like my new plant pickings, most of them are based on your advice anyways .

I am with you when you assumed that it is Monnieri, I don&#8217;t think it would be a Macandra &#8216;Green&#8217; as the leaves are so much smaller (than the red Macandra next to it) and it seems to grow side branches everywhere, like a bush.

About the Retrospiralis: maybe &#8211; I have seen them in Amano&#8217;s first book, but there he doesn&#8217;t mention plant names. No matter what, it looks very nice . It currently is too shaded in my tank, but all this will change on Saturday anyways (I hope).

Thanks,

Ingo


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As for the left side well I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's damn near impossible to 'scape a tank with plants only. There needs to be an anchor to build the scape around, driftwood or rocks. The left side has no anchor .
Well they do that with the "Dutch" style but as I said the plants need to be in tighter groups and then if you want the variety you pave some "streets" from mid to front. But yes, a piece of rock here and there will do wonders. Same think with Matty's tank. [link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/52902.html?200511161838 ]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/52902.html?200511161838 [/link]
He needs hardscape desperately.

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Gang,

I am currently in another low again,

The closer I get to Saturday&#8217;s replanting the more unsure I get of how I would do that. I have too many ideas in my head but I am afraid that I will end up with just another mixed-up tank again (would be the 3rd time around).

But there is no turning back because a) the plants are coming, b) the tank needs something done, and c) I don&#8217;t want to .

I guess I am just trying to prepare myself for the fact that at the end of Saturday I am not going to have an Amano tank (go figure ).

Tetratech,

What do you think about the &#8220;not-one-but-multiple&#8221; focus idea?

Ingo


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I don&#8217;t want to


That's the spirit!

I really feel like the left side would benefit from a big honkin' piece of driftwood, something like this]http://cgi.ebay.com/DRIFTWOOD-CRAFTS-GARDENING-AQUARIUM-TERRARIUM-BIRDS_W0QQitemZ7725677319QQcategoryZ66790QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/link] or [link=this

It can be overwhelming, but ya gotta do it until you get it right. Or maybe you don't, and just do it so that there's always a little something left to be done, that way you won't get bored. Either way, be creative. You've already got the plant health part of it down pat, that's the hard part - now you just need to find a way to make them look as nice as possible.


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LF, Does this goal statement still hold true for you?

The focus of this tank is neither to win an aquascaping contest nor to win a fish contest. I would like to create an environment where I can play with lots of plants and enjoy the various fish that it will house as I believe this concept will give me the most pleasure for the buck.

If not, take out your plants, take out rock valley get yourself a big piece of driftwood. Get your kids and wife out of the room. Now close your eyes and drop it in. Pause for "big splash" Now have fun rescaping around the driftwood. It's that simple. I really think you will be amazed at how it comes together.

Nowher, yes he does need a big piece of driftwood, but if he simply puts dw on the left and leaves rock valley on the right it will look to contrived.

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Thanks NowherMan6 for the encouraging words.

I am a major chicken when it comes to buying driftwood that I cannot see in person. To give you an example:

The first link you provide looks like a great piece. But it was fished out of the ocean? How did it get there? How long was it truly submersed (in other words, is it underwater ready)? What is the bug and fungus situation on it?

The second link could be nice too. But the owner doesn&#8217;t even mention (or I didn&#8217;t see it) the usage as an aquarium piece. Also, it looks like it had been rotting for a while, so will it fall apart soon? And again, what is the bug and fungus situation on it and how long was it truly submersed?

As I said, chicken .


Tetratech &#8211; You know how hard it is to find this &#8220;large&#8221; piece of driftwood here in our area.

&#8220;I would like to create an environment where I can play with lots of plants and enjoy the various fish that it will house as I believe this concept will give me the most pleasure for the buck.&#8221;

Well, you got me there . First off, the Espei had their own plan as to how &#8220;various&#8221; my fish will be. And all this fuss about left side, right side, plants in, over, and out again &#8211; that is my way of playing . As much as it seems that I get very frustrated sometimes as much I enjoy pulling myself out of these phases (with the help of you guys, thanks for that).

Thanks again,

Ingo


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tetratech
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LF,

I was in aquarium adventure last week. They had tons of driftwood. I think you need a big piece to lay down that will take up a considerable amount of real estate then you could plant in groups all along the back sides. You could also compliment the dw with the rocks you already have.

There's got to be an aquatics store closer to you that would have large pieces of dw.

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NowherMan6
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but if he simply puts dw on the left and leaves rock valley on the right it will look to contrived.


::looks at own aquarium with rocks on left, DW on right::

What's wrong with contrived?

But seriously, any aquascaped aquarium looks contrived to a certain extent. That's the whole point of aquascaping!What's the opposite of contrived anyway? Is it "natural?" Surely dutch style aquascapes look contrived, with their neat bushels of plants here and there...

Maybe then go with more rock buildup on the other side?


As for the DW, I've bough DW off of ebay many many times. Never gotten a bad piece. In any case, you boil it, bake it, scrub it like mad. Sometimes it leaches, sometimes alittle bit of fungus grows but that's normal. I wouldn't take a piece out of the ocean, but as the nearest bodies of water to me are the Hudson River, the East River and Newark bay I don't really have a choice as to where i get my driftwood


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Hudson River, the East River and Newark
Ooch!

Well I'm talking major rock on one side, major dw on the other. I think you need to blend both in. I think LF and I did say something about your white rocks.



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NowherMan6,

You are in our (tetratech and mine) area as well?

How funny . Are you in NJ or NY?

And have you ever tried to boil and/or bake a 26 inch long, 18 inch deep, and 16 inch high piece of driftwood?

Ingo


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LF,

All the driftwood I ever bought is that dark malaysian stuff. I soaked it for a few days and put it in. I never had a problem.



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I have thought about boiling a really bit chunk of DW before. I just never got around to it. At home we have this giant stainless steal tub. I think it used to be used for housing milk or something.. Any ways it is really big and I thought about filling it with water and lighting a fire under it for a few days. Ok maybe not that long but for a while at least.

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So do I tetratech,

I just got one piece this week and soak it right now for the 20G. Problem is that the ones I can buy in my area are all too small to even make a dent in my 125.

One day I will get a nice piece and then I will drive you all crazy again with "Where do I put it in the tank and what plant goes where", just the usual .

Ingo

EDIT: Wingsdlc - didn't see your post until I had posted this one. I guess the wife would have a problem if I buy a giant pot, put it in the yard, and make a big fire underneath . BTW, there are people that say boiling is actuallyy bad for the wood as its cell structure gets destroyed.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 18-Nov-2005 11:07


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When you guys talk about boiling DW are you talking about DW you find when your like walking your dog. Cause I found some nice pieces that would probably look nice but I was afraid to use them in my tank. Not sure what types of wood is suitable to put under water long-term.

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tetratech,

All you ever wanted to know about finding driftwood is right [link=Here]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/63086.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link].

Hope this helps,

Ingo


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LF,

Yeah I understand what you are saying. I really don't know how we got the giant pot but we have it. In fact I don't know where we get most of the stuff that is laying around my parents house come to think of it.......

Personaly I think the boiling thing really depends on the type of wood and how long you boild it for. But that is just me.

Be on the look out I have a bunch of new pictures I am going to post of my 40 gallon. I would really like your guys's in put. Thanks



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NowherMan6
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And have you ever tried to boil and/or bake a 26 inch long, 18 inch deep, and 16 inch high piece of driftwood?


Point taken...


But still, i think you can make due with any kind of DW you find. I'd be wary of stuff that just fell off a tree, but I've heard of people finding older pieces near a stream or in a woodsy area and using them.

And im in NJ, northeast NJ. The closest really good LFS I know of is Tropaquarium on rt. 35 in eatontown, over an hour away...


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I'm sensing road trip

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Wingsdlc &#8211; I guess sometimes its better not to know where things come from . Hey, I am sure we (at least I am) are pleased to give you our 2 cents, but don&#8217;t assume that we know what we are talking about . Just let us know when and where we should look.

NowherMan6 &#8211; I am in north NJ too (somewhere there), the closest decent LFS is Absolutely Fish on Rt. 46, about 10 min away.

tetratech &#8211; Road Trip, I am coming with you .

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 18-Nov-2005 12:11


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LF,

Oh I know we are all full of it. For the record that is. Any ways here is my updated stuff.

Click this.....I know you want to......it is just my thread don't worry....I have been starring at the computer screen for too long....


Edit:to, too, two, 2.....sometime I really hate English!

Last edited by Wingsdlc at 18-Nov-2005 13:02

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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NowherMan6
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46W? That's actually not too far from me, maybe 20 mins depending on tunnel traffic and traffic on rt. 3. I'll have to check it out sometime, I just saw their website and it looks pretty awesome - thanks for the suggestion


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Yo, Nowher are youse ever on LONG GUY-LAND?

If you are check out Aquarium Adventure in Garden City. 11,000 square foot all aquatics. Here's the website.

http://www.aquariumadventure.com/

Little_Fish has been there, but he was kinda in a hurry, something about the wife and kids. I got alot of my stuff there including my tank, driftwood, many fish, etc.

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NowherMan6,

Yeah, go there and check it out. There are a few employees that are good and willing (and have the knowledge) to help you out. Unfortunately, the rest of them have no clue but pretend they do. Here is a conversation snippet that I picked up there earlier in the week between sales guy (SG), owner (O), and a customer (C) with a 10G, standing in front of a tank where the C is getting ONE White Cloud:

O to C: Hey, how about a frog?
C: Don&#8217;t they jump out?
O: No, these stay in the water.
O: What else is in the tank?
C: (forgot the exact listing he gave, but basically ONE of each kind, for example one was a tetra)
O: That&#8217;s good, what are you getting today?
C: This one and a Bumble Bee?
O: (explains that they need salt then asks SG) Why did you not tell him about that?
SG: I didn&#8217;t know.

Then I had to go away, partially because I had to laugh and partially because I got mad that the O thinks one fish of each kind is a good thing.

Otherwise be warned, they are on the expensive side of things. But even with all the ranting, it is my main LFS and in good to very good shape (plants and fish).

Ingo


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I've been keeeping up with your progress from the start Ingo, just wanted to poke my head in and say that i'm enjoying reading and very impressed by your tank.
I havent said anything before now because I am not an ideas person! Keep up the good work.


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NowherMan6
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Yo, Nowher are youse ever on LONG GUY-LAND?


Actually my old man lives out there on the island, but when Im out there it's usually to do family stuff, not so much aquarium shopping

But i'll definetely check out that place on 46. Tropaquarium on 35 is VERY pricey with livestock, and they dont have a great deal of plant selection, mostly cichlid and reef stuff. Staff are very friendly and knowledgable though, so that makes up for it. Also, the only plants they sell are anubias barteri and java fern, and they sell HUGE specimens for dirt cheap prices. Java's with twenty something stems, maybe 18-20 inches long each were being sold for 4 dollars. Big mother anubias plants for the same price. I guess they dont know better...


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Gang,

I am too tired to write a book tonight, I worked on tanks for 12 hours today.

Unfortunately, around Noon I found out that the plants for the 125G will arrive on Tuesday ant not today. It was too late to stop the process as the 29G was already changed and that set off a chain reaction and as such I had to mess with the 20G and the big guy as well.

The Bacopa is gone, it is now in the 29G, other plants have been moved (some are trimmed).

Please be so kind and have a look at other tanks and give me THERE a comment on what you think, as you know I value your input highly.

Here is [link=The 29G Link]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/61406_3.html " style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link].
Here is [link=The 20G Link]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/63901_2.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link].

And because it was such a nice day , here is a picture of this tank now. What do you think?

Good night,

Ingo

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Hey LF just dropping in - Now that you have no algae complaints I tend to be all out of suggestions. I just think that your colorful plants need to grow in a bit. In a couple months you can have some eyecatching groups of colors.

The only thing I can think of is that I'd like something contrasting behind rock valley to create depth. The two rocks with java moss tend to blend in with the vals behind. That isn't even that major though, because in person I bet it looks great.

I really like the shape of the horizon in your tank. Everything looks really healthy....



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You must be tired! All those changes in one 12 hr stint, it would knock me out for sure, but I really think it has paid off, all the tanks look great. I want to be sure, the plant that is covering the 'ground' in front of the valley is glosso? It is not the one that looks like grass, but has more rounded leaves? Would it need more light than my aquq-glo flourescent bulb in my 25g? I have no idea what the wpg is and I don't use CO2. But I do need a ground cover and I like that one the most so far. Great 'scaping, I'll be checking back often to steal more ideas. Oops, was that in print? ]

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Lindy &#8211; you keeping up with this thread and giving me the thumb up is honor enough for me.

NowherMan6 &#8211; I inspected a newly opened LFS in my area, called The Fish Tank, in Saddle Brooks on Friday night. They are not ready yet as I believe they still have to learn a few things about stocking Fish and Plants. Plants are few and not in the best shape, fish tanks are mostly bare bottom stuffed to the rim with very young fish. For example, they have 3 tanks with Cories (and that is all they have on the label, no species name, all are just Cories) that no larger than &#190; of an inch.They are cheap though, but that alone is not a reason for me to buy something.

Matty &#8211; I hear you when you speak of contrast around Rock Valley. I will have to wait and see what the new plants that I should receive on Tuesday look like. Then, another replant will get on the way.

luvmykrib &#8211; You are welcome to &#8220;steal&#8221; all the ideas you seem feasible for you, mine didn&#8217;t come to me out of the blue either . Yes, this is Glosso and I doubt that it would grow nicely in a 25G with only one T8 fluorescent light. If you happen to find it cheap in a store, go ahead and buy a little bit and give it a try, but don&#8217;t be disappointed if it doesn&#8217;t work out. I remember trying it in my 29G when I had about 1.3wpg in that tank. It grew a little and I took it out again. One problem there was that I didn&#8217;t show enough patience, maybe I should have waited longer.

Ingo


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Gang,

It&#8217;s funny how things happen. I just mentioned in tetratech&#8217;s log how well my Espei school (trying to compete with tetratech&#8217;s Cardinals ).

Well, it turns out today is an important day in my Espei fry development. At least 10 have joined the big guys and school together. Oh how wonderful the world can be (until the next disaster strikes ).

I will try to get a shot later, for the time being I am doomed to laundry folding and child care, payback for 12 hours of planting yesterday .

Ingo


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I am doomed to laundry folding and child care, payback for 12 hours of planting yesterday



Pause to catch breath.



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tertatech - you know nothing is for free

Week 8 Update,

Another, although smaller, replant has happened this weekend, it was supposed to be a big one but the plants I expected from the online provider will not arrive until Tuesday. Their excuse did sound a little shady; something about the Amano Pearl Grass needs still to grow. What? I didn&#8217;t know 2 days make such a big difference in this plant&#8217;s life.

Anyways, because of this I did not perform a water change, I will do one on Tuesday evening (and then again next Saturday to get back on the regular track).

The small changes performed include the removal of the Bacopa (now in the 29G), the addition of 2 rocks on the left half, and general trimming activities.

The Espei are just great, although the number of fry begins to frighten me. At least 80 are swimming around there, like they have never heard of the fact that they are hard to breed, maybe I should tell them .

Here is a summary of tank development on a biweekly base.

First off week 0, means the day I planted the tank:

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Next week 2, the fast growers (Wisteria and in particular Water Sprite), have taken over:

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Week 4, most of these fast growers have been removed and first attempts of design are starting:

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Week 6, more moves towards the generation of a design are under way, although not too successful (yet):

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Week 8 (today), plants have been moved around a lot since week 6, hopefully for the better:

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Definitely starting to see some nice things.

I would keep all below white line. Everything above out.
That's what I see anyway, you might have something else in your head.




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I 2nd tetratech. I really like the used of flowing lines.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Thanks tetratech and Wingsdlc for the input, I appreciate it. I think it is a little too early to think about a final layout as new plants are still to come and they are gonna change the scape again anyways. Hang in there with me until we got these and then shoot away.

&#8230;, you might have something else in your head.


Yeah, hot air

I thought I might share some close-ups with you before I go to sleep.

A double blossom on one of my Anubias Nana

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A close-up of some Red Rubin Sword leaves

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Amano Pearl Grass behind and next to the still to be identified red thing

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The Glosso carpet if front of (and between) Rock Valley

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Come to think of it. If I had to suggest a setup to someone with a small tank (maybe a 29G) who has all the tools (lights and CO2), this would be a great tank in itself.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 20-Nov-2005 19:53
[/font]


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Last one, Glosso pearling

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*craves the high light setup*

.....oh for there to be glosso....





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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Ya know, I've never gotten my anubias to flower. Ive had tem right from the start, and not once have they flowered. i guess anubias hate me and my water. wargh

Lookin good as always, that glosso running up the rock alley is really quite nice, very effective.


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LITTLE_FISH
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Guys,

Thanks, not much going on here today, I am rather busy at work.

But anyways:

Matty, I am trying the Glosso now in my 20G, I will keep you posted on success. Lighting is 2x20W fluorescent, height 12&#8221;.

NowherMan6, what can I say, I just have the magic tank . Espei having fry like rabbits and anubias flowering on regular intervals.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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Hey LF,

In tetras thread I just noticed you said something about Amano... which made me go online and look at some of his stuff. Well, call it inspiration or what have you, but i just got an idea for your tank, looking back at the most recent picture.

I think someone already pointed this out, but the right side of your tank with the rock valley already looks amano-ish... so maybe just apply the same rules to the other side. make the rock valley your high point, and just slope down the other side. Add bigger rocks so that it slopes downhill, and allow the rocks to stand out more. Cover them with more moss and keep the tenellus bushy as it is, and have the back planted with more vals. I guess what I'm getting at, and again maybe this has already been said a few hundred posts ago, is that to unify the whole tank you have to apply the same rules from the one side to the other. As it is there's a completely different set of plants on the left. It seems like it's so much more difficult to make it work witht he "two-tank" look

Anyway, that's how I just had a vision of it in my head. Don't know if I explained it right... And it's not at ALL to say it doesnt look great now... just wanted to share the thought.



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LITTLE_FISH
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NowherMan6,

I hear you. But that would also mean that I would have to say good-bye to all my tall plants, even the new Aponogeton Crispus and Ech. Uruguayensis, maybe also the Cryptocoryne Lucens would not fit anymore.

I don&#8217;t know, maybe I go for tetratech's chaos arrangement, although I don&#8217;t really know what that means .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don&#8217;t know, maybe I go for tetratech's chaos arrangement, although I don&#8217;t really know what that means
]:|
What?

It's really whatever floats your boat. I happen to like dramatic arrangements, which is simple, but striking and the fish do the rest. Someone referred to it as almost a
"Zen" affect which I don't totally disagree with. I think Bensaf and LF, like more color and variety. Nowher, not sure which way you go, "not that there's anything wrong with that"

Last edited by tetratech at 21-Nov-2005 15:29

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LITTLE_FISH
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No tetratech,

You once mentioned something about Amano - chaos - no focus point.

What was that again?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
goldfishgeek
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Hmmm am deeply Jealous.

I do like Rock Valley, its like a whole little fantasy world.......

still jealous, can't think of anything constructive to say about future plans. Just keep posting pictures, they give me hope as the tank keeps getting better and better, maybe mine will!

GFG

Last edited by goldfishgeek at 21-Nov-2005 18:25

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LITTLE_FISH
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GFG,

Thanks for your comment. The owner of a tank is most of the time his/her own worst critic , except of course if you have FP buddies like tetratech, Matty, Bensaf, Megil, NowherMan, upikabo, (myself), and so forth . I can tell you than I am not happy yet (although I am not too sad either).

I can&#8217;t wait to see the plants that I get today (hopefully). I am sure it will throw off all plans that I had and make me reconsider the whole layout yet again . But I enjoy these &#8220;games&#8221; and I don&#8217;t mind constantly messing with the layout, as long as it doesn&#8217;t harm my fish and the plants.

And yes, I promise you that your tank will be more to your likings once you put the effort in to foster the plants and to arrange the aquascape (as you already started in your [link=Own Thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/66485.html?200511220446" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link]).

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You once mentioned something about Amano - chaos - no focus point.

Yes, nature's random disorder

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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That's what I was looking for

nature's random disorder


Sounds like something you could call any settled tank, no matter how the plants are (mis)arranged .

Unfortunately I am sure there is an order in any disorder as well.

Ingo


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tetratech
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A double blossom on one of my Anubias Nana

How long did a take you to see your first flower?

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LITTLE_FISH
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The first one that was grown completely in my tank - about 5 to 6 weeks.

The first one over all - 3 seconds 2 of the 5 Anubias came with flowers already, but they are long gone (within a week). Also, Otos like to nibble at them.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Nowher, not sure which way you go, "not that there's anything wrong with that"


Say WHAT???????


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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"Nowher, not sure which way you go, "not that there's anything wrong with that" "

Scaping-wise

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LITTLE_FISH
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[font color="#C00000"]I AM AT PEACE[/font]

At least for the moment ..

But if you think it has something to do with me being happy about the Aquascaping, you are wrong. But keep on reading and you will find out. Events of this evening step by step:

First off, the plants arrived today, but what a disappointment. Unlike usual when ordering from this provider, each specimen was really small. I did not get the Amano Pearl Grass (which was why they said it couldn&#8217;t be shipped on Friday, I knew that was wrong) instead I got a check for the pearl grass money and a free tiny Red Mellon Sword (nice).

So I decided I will plant these guys anyways, and what can I say, 4 hours and 4 beers later I was done (including water change). So sorry, I am a little tipsy right now .

Here is the moment of Zen: while doing the water change, the fish had less and less space to swim and eventually older fry joined up with the adults. Tetratech, you gotta get a large school. I had tears in my eyes, it is sooooooo pretty. You cannot really capture a moment like this on camera, but I tried.

The details of the changes will be following tomorrow, too drunk and too tired right now (had no dinner either).

Here is a shot of lots of fry with adults

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Grrr,

Well, here it is

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Here is the finished tank

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upikabu
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Awwww, what an awesome photo of the Espei family reunion! Love it!

-P
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upikabu
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So I guess you're going with the Amano look as NowherMan6 suggested, eih?

-P
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Defintiely looking better. I'm still not crazy about the tall plant right next to the corkscrews, but that's me.

Now if I could only get my cardinals to act like your espei. Oh what a thanksgiving it would be.

Last edited by tetratech at 23-Nov-2005 04:52

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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You should try to make them change the rules on schooling fish around these parts: minimum 6 for the fishs' health, minimum 30 for stunning visual effect

Happy thanksgiving all, I probably won't get back on here before tomorrow!


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LITTLE_FISH
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upikabu, tetratech, and NowherMan,

Thanks for the input. Tetratech, I assume you mean the Rotala Macandra, right? It is a sensitive plant that requires loads of light to be beautiful (like mine ) and I am afraid if I move it too often I am going to kill it. In any way, I will refrain from any major change until the new plants have grown to a recognizable size. It will be an interesting period to see all these little plants jump up.

Am I going Amano? I don&#8217;t know, I actually think that I don&#8217;t have the knowledge and right plants to do that. Maybe I will create a style called &#8220;Poor Man&#8217;s Amano Tank&#8221; whereby poor is the equivalent of inexperienced .

Can anyone tell me more about the Red Melon Sword? This was the freebee they gave me because they didn&#8217;t sent the plants on Friday (as I said earlier, they told me that the Amano Pearl Grass has to grow some more, and then it wasn&#8217;t shipped anyways).

Yeah, the schooling is lovely. Most of the time they don&#8217;t school together yet, I think it is simply a question of speed as the grown-ups race from left to right and back and the little one are still to weak to follow. At least they have gained the confidence to hang with the big guys without worrying of being eaten.

Well, here are some pictures I took during yesterdays replanting.

First, the new plants in a 2G bucket, I hope one can see that they are tiny. In here are 3 Crypt Lucens, 3 Apon Crispus, 1 Ech Uruguayensis, and the freebee Red Melon Sword.

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Here are the Narrow Leaf Ludwigia layed out for replanting

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A shot of the right side of the tank, nothing has changed there.

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Here is a picture of the left tank () where all the changes took place. The Ludwigia was removed and relocated to the right, a little more like a street. In the way back just in front of the Reactor, and invisible in the picture because of its size, is the Ech Uruguayensis. On the right of the filter intake (in the back) are the 3 Apon Crispus lined up (probably too close to each other). In front of them are the Crypt Lucens arranged, behind and between the 2 rocks on the left. The red melon sword is hidden behind the Crypt Albida (or Retrospiralis? ). All the way on the left are the Alternanthera reineckii "roseafolia&#8221; lined up, mostly obscured by the second Anubias Barteri that I moved over there. All Pennywort has been removed &#8211; This might actually bring the end of the Espei breeding season as almost no brad leaved plants are left.

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Here is a closer shot of the middle section of the left tank. I think this one could make a nice small tank in itself as well. You can see the Anubias double blossom on the right.

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tetratech
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Very nice, I think it's starting to look very pretty. When I first saw the bowl I thought you were starting to prepare for thanksgiving.

BTW - Have you stopped dosing excel, everything looks very clean and clear in the pics.


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tetratech,

No &#8211; no turkey in the bucket

Yeah, I have stopped using Excel after only one week of dosing, about 11 days ago. Yesterday I noticed some algae on my plants again, not too a point that bothers me too much (but more than 4 strings). The one that hasn&#8217;t come back so far is the BBA, which was the one I was concerned with the most as it seemed to choke plants to death.

Maybe you have noticed that from the pictures, but I rearranged my Reactor and filter intake to be side by side, following your lead (and Megil&#8217;s excellent explanation of its benefits) with having the CO2 being sucked intot the filter first. I wonder if I will notice any difference.

Ingo


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Nothing going on in my log in 2 days, that&#8217;s a record .

Well, there isn&#8217;t much to report anyways as no new drama has occurred and no good news either.

I would like to get your advice on a little scape change that I would like to perform tomorrow (if anyone even reads this thread until then). I would like to expand the Glosso area to the left and right as indicated by the red lines. The close-ups (left and right areas) show that the plant is already growing there anyways, but it cannot get enough light as it is shaded by the Dwarf Sag / Pygmy Chain Sword mix.

What do you think? Good or bad idea?

Ingo

Here is the whole area:

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Just the left with Glosso

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Just the right with Glosso

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Ingo,

I am not quite sure which would look better, the tenellus
right now look very nice, but the glosso carpet look s small
an dartificial. I can understand why you would want to expand
the glosso carpet, I personally would only expand it towards
the left side of the tank (when you are facing it left) since
I think the right side tenellus looks very impressive overall
and is partly what made that side of the tank so nicely
balanced.

HTH,
Megil.

EDIt: spell and grammar check &gt;.&lt;

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 25-Nov-2005 14:24

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Thanks Megil,

I haven't even thought about the possibility to extend only one side. That's where my symmetry thinking limits my imagination. But that is a good point.

One of the reasons why I want to extend the area is because the sags / swords are sprouting out all over and based on my experience with my smaller tank I know that in no time I would have a dense, 4 to 5 inches tall, foreground, all the way to the glass. I am not so sure if this would look all that great. Thinning these guys out is a full time job .

I guess I could give your suggestion a try, better to take out less and still have the ability to continue rather than more and later regretting it.

Thanks,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 25-Nov-2005 14:19


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Gang,

I performed my 50% water change today (weekly updates will follow tomorrow) and thought I share one picture with you. It is a close-up of my Xmas Moss about 30min after the change. The only thing that has changes from previous similar water changes is the fact that I added 50ml of Flourish Excel immediately after the refill. Last time I added Excel it seemed as if it has the opposite effect and actually reduced the plant bubbling. I don&#8217;t know why today was different .

Ingo

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Weekly Tank update &#8211; Week 9

Time flies by when you are having fun, I cannot believe the tank is already up for this long.

Anyways, not too much has happened in the last week, I got a few new plants on Tuesday and spent 4 hour adding them to the tank. To do so, some plants had to go (Pennywort) and others had to be moved (Narrow Leaf Ludwigia) yet again. The new plants are tiny compared to the size they hopefully will reach some day (soon) and as such it looks like there is a wide open back on the left tank side.

I thinned out some of the Dwarf Sags and Pygmy Chain Swords on the left front of Rock Valley as I would like this area to fill with Glosso. After the 50% water change I added 50ml of Flourish Excel as some algae is making its return to the tank. That means that either my parameters are not fine tuned yet or that the replanting (and addition of 2 rocks) on Tuesday caused some imbalance (less likely). I am not planning on adding Excel every day and will keep an eye open to see if this one-time-dose has any effect.

Now on to the weekly tank pictures, this time week 0, 3, 6, and 9. After that I will add 5 detail shots, so overall there will be 9 photos to keep you entertained .

Initial Setup, week 0. I remember that I thought I had quite a large plant load .

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Week 3. By then some plants were already being trimmed as they got too large and shaded others.

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Week 6. The beginning of the major replanting that was to follow in the next 3 weeks.

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Week 9 (this weekend). All background plants seem to be rather equally in height, except for hole right in front of the hardware. That&#8217;s where all the new plants are.

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Some details. First the Rotala Macandra, which, although not nicely arranged (I know tetratech, I know ), has some very nice color to it.

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Next the Rock Valley where the Gloss is getting very dense. Do I have to prune this plant? Never thought of that . I wish it would start to fill the area in the depth of the valley (where you can still see the bare gravel) but maybe there is not enough light for it, we will see.

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Next a shot centered around the Crypt Retrospiralis. On the left you can make out the Apon Crispus in the way back and the Crypt Lucens in front of it. The Red Melon Sword is hidden behind the Retrospiralis, I guess I will have to replant it when it grows a little taller (I didn&#8217;t plan for that plant, it was a freebee). The Uruguayensis Sword is just off the picture to the left, too small anyways to be seen.
Also, you see some of the older fry hanging in the current with the big guys .

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LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a shot looking into the tank from the left. Sorry that the quality is not all that great, I don&#8217;t have a lot of space there to hold the camera. If you look carefully you can see a very small green plant on the left front, just behind the second Alternanthera reineckii stem. That&#8217;s the Uruguayensis Sword.

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Last but not least, another close-up of my Glosso bubbling, I just cannot get enough of this. Also, there is a maybe 2 weeks old fry on the left.

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tetratech
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LF,
Nice pics, I really like the Rotala Macandra and your pics are conviencing me to maybe try and incorporate some into my setup. Where did you originally get yours?

I personally would extend the glossy left and right and let it kinda of slowly blend with the chain swords into the corners. That would bring the whole foreground together and than you could add little things here and there at different depths.




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Thanks tetratech,

I know Amano uses the Rotala Macandra in quite a few setups to add some color to it. But he uses it mostly rather hidden in the back where only the upper parts are visible (maybe because the stems are not too pretty when planted densly).

I am with you on the Glosso spreading out, but I will take it slowly to avoid &#8220;empty&#8221; gravel areas in the front in the process. Getting the Swords and Sags out in the front is quite a challenge as they are interwoven with the Glosso chains. And the fact that the Sags have underground runners doesn&#8217;t help either. You think you are pulling out one plant and actually cause a chain reaction somewhere else and before you know it all Glosso is lose as well.

Ingo


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More pictures from the fry frontier.

Here are about 20 some in the tank corner.

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And here a closer shot of a baker&#8217;s dozen in formation.

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goldfishgeek
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all the plants look fantastic Little Fish. and as for the fry wow, they look amazing. I have always wanted to do that, get one type of fish and see it populate the tank. I have all the self control of ...... well I can't think of anything that actually has less self control then me. except maybe me in a shoe shop. (bought three pairs of boots yesterday still having shoppers guilt)

I just love your tank. think its brillant the way you have learnt so much about the hobby and can answer all my questions!

really good job. I can't believe you can hardly see the rocks at the valley bit.


GFG,*looks at her tanks *

Last edited by goldfishgeek at 27-Nov-2005 19:28

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