FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Well thank you, Bensaf! between all your good advice and doing some of my own due diligence things started to click.
Fundamentally I think I understand things on a bigger and similiar level, but now to execute it.

One thing I'd change if I was starting over is my fish stocking. Definately fewer in total quantity and number of species. This is also for aesthetic reasons, it simply looks better. Same for plants, smaller number of species but bigger groupings.
Wow, you sound alittle like me. Less species all the way around. Some of the most pleasing images I see some times are tanks with 2 species of plants and 1 species of fish (not counting otos and shrimp) and strategically placed hardscape. And as appealing as that tank might look, eventually you will get bored and change it.

It really depends where you are in the hobby and what hobby your is. There's really three hobbies here: fish, plants, scaping.



My Scapes

How many times have we seen folks say they want to start a planted tank but they'll add the plants first and up the lighting later, or they have the lighting now and add the plants bit by bit as the money becomes available. Always makes me groan, I can see the dying plants/alagae problem posts coming.

::gulp::

Those were the days...

We as hobyists tend to over complicate it. Pseudo science is a big problem in this hobby.

Generally I think you're right about this and I agree with what i think you're getting at, but just to add something: I agree that in the overall scheme of things we as aquarists/ aquascapers/ espei breeders/ destroyers of protists/ etc. should allow ourselves to embrace the overall simplicity of keeping our planted tanks successful. Bensaf and plantbrain spelled out just how simple it can be in several posts in this thread and others, and we sometimes overanalyze and make the experience more complicated than it need be. However, I would argue that in a lot of ways overanalyzing is part of the fun of it all. Trying to understand and experimenting is what keeps it fresh. As tetra pointed out, it's what you want out of the hobby that will drive how you approach it. For example, if your goal is just to have a planted tnak that's nice to look at, period, then by all means make it as simple as possible for yourself and dont think too much about it. Focus on results and make it that much easier. For others, such as myself, playing around and figuring things out (with a little guidance ) is what it's all about. For me, anyway, that's what makes it a hobby, and it's part of what keeps me interested. That's nto to say I DON'T want a nice looking tank, or that I'm willing to put up with perpetual iffy results because we all want a tank that's nice to look at in the end. Maybe someday I'll get fed up with the playing around and all, but for now I'm a young buck and...well.. pass the test kits, I'm goin' in!

---

Back in the saddle!

Nowher you are definitely somewher what that statement

My Scapes

Well you 2,

Sounds good

Change of subject: I tested yesterday evening the water in the moss - no detectable Ammonia.

Also, I observed in the last two days (evenings) that the adult Espei take a group of about 10 to 15 younger ones out for a tour through the tank. It always begins about 30 min after feeding. The group forms and swims from left to right and back again. Occasionally they stop to take an extra spin around some plants or the Reactor and once in a while some get lost and have to wait until the rest swims by again. It is really cool.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The group forms and swims from left to right and back again. Occasionally they stop to take an extra spin around some plants or the Reactor and once in a while some get lost and have to wait until the rest swims by again. It is really cool.

Nice that you appreciate that, I certaintly do. I'm still torn on which way to go with a big school, On one hand the pencils look so solid, but the group of 5 don't really school that often, maybe 20 would, the rummys are also very solid and are great schoolers, but they occupy a low strata and they kinda blend in. I have 10 of 21 cardinals left, so I'm hesistant to spend about $4 a fish (after deaths) to establish a school that I know I will find remains here and there. although I haven't introduced any since I got my UV. I could move my golds from my 12g, but they'll probably die in my 72 :%)



Last edited by tetratech at 15-Dec-2005 12:48

My Scapes

Well aren't we the loving sweet family today ? Kind of like the planted forum Brady Bunch [img src='/images/forums/halo.gif' border=0]

Who wants to be Marcia ?

Yeah, people are into this aspect of the hooby for many different reasons. Some are into the fish and the plants are just a background and water quality aide. Some are into the plants and the fish are just accessories. Some like the scaping , artistic end and others the pure science. It's all good, whatever rocks your boat.

I guess for most of us it's a mixture of all of the above.

Don't know about you, but I never had a burning ambition to build a planted tank. Kind of fell into it (the hobby not the tank ). The wife wanted one ( a decision she has come to regret a hundred times over). I hated that purple graveled death trap. Decided if that was going to be in our home I'd try to make it look good. Damn plants kept dying. Wife wanted to get rid of it , I wanted to get rid of it. But my natural contrariness preventing me from dumping it until I had figured out how to whip those plants into shape. And so it began.

As I progressed and learned more the 'scaping became more of a focus.

I've always like the simplicity. But there were so many plants I wanted to try to grow, I smoke therefore I have zero willpower, so there were always a lot of plants in my tanks.

That's changed now because over the years I've grown pretty much them all. I know the ones I like, I know the shapes and growth patterns, I know what to put where, I know what are a PITA and which are easy. So the science and desire to collect fades and the scaping and arranging becomes more interesting.

Science is factual, so it becomes easy, it's a matter of simply learning and memorising. I find the "artistic" side more challenging and interesting. It's subjective, there's is no right or wrong answer, it's not something you can learn from a book, it's personal, like all art it reflects something of the spirit (or lack thereof) of the creator. Combine this subjective stuff with the practicalities of having to know a plant in order to place it in the proper location, knowing which ones to use and knowing how to keep them looking healthy, and you have a pretty fascinating hobby.

I've found the simple tanks more challenging. It's not so easy to create something interesting and insipring with a small limited amount of plants. It's not difficult to make a big bouquet of flowers look nice, trying doing the same thing with a handful of daisies and a shrub.

Schooling fish ! Tetra, I'd definately keep the pencils. The rummies, I agree, while real tight schoolers and nice fish, can be a bit monotonous watching them go back and forth across the front bottom of the tank day in day out.The size and shape is too similar to the pencils also. Cardinals and Neons I always found a bit ho-hum, they just seem to sit there. I really like the look of Lemons, I've seen a lot of them here, those are tight fish, they school like they are attached by string. The size is nice and the more compressed shape would a nice contrast to the others.
Green Fire Tetras are stunners when they are in a good tank, look like washed out Neon wannabes in LFS tanks,but when they mature are real knockouts.

Last edited by bensaf at 15-Dec-2005 20:50

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Well aren't we the loving sweet family today ? Kind of like the planted forum Brady Bunch

Golly, does everyone get so crabby when they get old?


p.s. I'll be Peter...or Bobby... or whoever's the guy that has that TV show with that model from the other TV show...

---

Back in the saddle!

Well Bensaf,

If we are the Brady Bunch then you are the Nanny, forgot the name though, the one who has control over almost all situations but occasionally messes things up .

As to “how did we get into planted tanks?” – It never struck my mind not to have a planted tank. Somehow fake decorations etc. never occurred to me as an option. I don’t know why, it just was that way.

As to my tank itself – Well, the threads are not lessening, actually they are multiplying. And yes, I haven’t dosed anything since last Saturday, but don’t yell at me. I needed to give it a try. Tonight (night before water change) I will measure my values again and see what the readings are compared to last Sunday.

I also ordered 5 liters of TMG from Big Al’s, that should last a few weeks . Did anybody read on the Tropica web site that soft water tanks need only half the dosage? I don’t seem to have read anything about this here yet.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

anybody read on the Tropica web site that soft water tanks need only half the dosage? I don’t seem to have read anything about this here yet.

If you check the bottle it also says you can increase the dosage by 50% in a well run tank.So it balances out.They give themselves wiggle room.

Go with the full dose. It's good stuff.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

If we are the Brady Bunch then you are the Nanny
That would be Alice.

Bensaf is Alice!

My Scapes

If we are the Brady Bunch then you are the Nanny

Well he does have that dress....

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

hmm.........A hit man in an Alice dress.........I don't know if we should go there!

LF,
I think that it is very cool that you started out the right way with live stuff. I started out with all sorts of fake stuff when I was younger. I have gradualy moved away from it because it just doesn't do much for me. You put it there and it never changes. Although some of the new fake plants actually look almost nice compared to the stuff I used to have.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well he does have that dress....

Wingsdlc, I started out the same way. I still have my large plastic asian ambulia and silk sword plants in a box in my closet, and there they will stay. I remember getting really peaved when brown algae started growing on all my plants. I thought it was abnormal... as i said earlier, ahhh, the good ol' days

---

Back in the saddle!

Well, I can see already many many posts where we identify who is which Brady

I guess from an experience level I should be the youngest of the boys (don’t know his name either).

You guys and gals can pick one of the others

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

If only because we share similar hair styles...



NowherMan6 attached this image:


Last edited by NowherMan6 at 16-Dec-2005 09:57[/font]

---

Back in the saddle!

Oh Man!!!!

Don't you guys have to work??

Any ways if we are going to do this we need to do it right. Don't you guys remember the stuff a bit back about slightly older and younger brothers?

I will take clams on one of the girls being what hair I do have is blonde!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ok then Wingsdlc, here you go:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Little Fish! Not going to anwser about the have to work thing??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wow you guys really have way too much time on your hands O.o

Ingo seems you started in a similar fashion as I. fake ornaments just really weren't of interest when you could have the real things.

Hm, lunch break maybe ?

I tend to relax from my job by taking short breaks once in a while and peruse the fish profiles.

Ingo

Megil: It wasn't so much that fake plants were not of interest, it literally didn't occur to me that this was an option. God knows how my tank would look like today if I would have thought about it before I started.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 16-Dec-2005 11:38

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Let be glad you didn't then They really shouldn't be an option O.o

You guys make one demented family BTW, *whistles*



Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 16-Dec-2005 11:44[/font]

TGIF:



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh man...

---

Back in the saddle!

After almost 800 posts these are the things that happen. I hope we don't crash the site it will be known as the Brady Syndrome.

My Scapes

That is great! Can you put a gun in bensaf's hands? After all he is a hit man.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

There are no hands to add guns too Wingsdlc

Tetra. just a wee bit to much time on your hands

Gang,

I did my water testing tonight. Just to refresh your memories (after all the Brady Bunch stuff ) I only dosed macros once right after the water change on Saturday and no micros at all.

Growth during the week has been strong, the duck weed on the surface has multiplied like mad. I will post a picture in a few minutes, right after I take it. There is more Algae and it occupies various plants in the tank, but nowhere as dense as on the moss. Here are the measuring results, first last week followed by this week (5 days between measuring):

Ph: 6.6 - 6.6
KH: 4 DH – 4 DH
CO2: 30ppm – 30ppm
Nitrates: about 20ppm – almost 20ppm, there is a slight difference in color, but not much
Phosphates: about 5ppm – almost 5ppm, there is a slight difference in color, but not much
Iron: Both times 0.1ppm and after 30 min about 0.3ppm

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, the photo came out crappy, but I guess you will get the point of strong growth.

First last weeks picture:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And now this week. Just look at the Rotala Macandra on the left and right, the Apons in the left back, the Ludwigia "bush", and so forth, even the Crypt Retrospiralis has now leaves that are way over 25" long.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Looks nice LF

So your plants are growing, pearling, smiling, etc. and according to your tests barely any of the ferts are being used and inspite of this growth and density you have more algae which should be pushed out of it's niche by all those smiling plants.

That's a tough one, sorry I can't help you!

My Scapes

No but seriously, IMO light is still a major trigger here. On one hand, the light, ferts, co2 extra is giving you really robust growth, but at the same time that light with all those little fishes is creating a cocktail that the algae are sucking down. I know, I know you measured nh3 and there is none, but it doesn't mean there's not enough in there for the algae. As we talked previously it is a fact the a heavy fish load makes a good balance harder to find. My tank's GW I believe is based more on mass/growth, when my plants were peaking and I was floating alot of plants and using the willow branches my tank did get clear, it got cloudy again (as Bensaf pointed out) when that growth/mass was gone. Now I've been dosing more than ever and I do not see any increase in algae and my rotala is making a major recovery and I'm starting to see something with the stargrass (a real head case plant)

My Scapes

What The hell of I started. Even Matty pops up out of nowhere (which came as quite the shock to nowherman) to bring up the "dress".....dammit IT WAS A SARONG.

I'm way to young to be Alice.

Kinda thought tetra would have gone for the little girl with the bangs. I can see him in bangs for some reason

Changed my mind, you folks are more like the Manson family then the Brady Bunch.

I'd be wary of the test kits, that much growth simply has to have led to a reduction in levels.

BTW the tank is looking real good. I like the grassy look.
Mainly, for really the first time it has a very cohesive flowing look. It looks like one tank now. The eye can move from one side to the other without any jars or jolts.

I'd love to see some driftwood in there though. That would really take it to the next level.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

IT WAS A SARONG.
Sure whatever you say Bensaf.

I can see him in bangs for some reason
It was a toss up!

I'd love to see some driftwood in there though
My thoughts exactly or another boulder breaking up that big mass left center.

Another thing I would do would trim the group leftcenter and move the rotala m. right center into the grouping. It distracts in the corners and makes it very obvious that your hiding equipment, but at the same time it's a beautful plant so it draws your attention to the equipment.

Last edited by tetratech at 16-Dec-2005 20:00

My Scapes

LF,

Your growth rate is really wild. The plants in my tank are growing well but nothing like what you have going on. Remember though that I have 3.25 WPG, dosing Excel, and running diy Co2. Thats it. I have some algae but nothing bad. Just the hard green stuff on the glass. I am probably going to start dosing some green stump remover but I am going to wait until after Christmas. It kind of scares me because thngs are going fine and I am not so sure I want to mess with it. I also don't want to deal with the over grown issue.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks all for the input.

Yeah, I don’t understand it either. The only explanations I have for the little changes in N and P are:

N is provided in form of ammonia (preferred by plants over NO3) from the 100 fish
P is used only in small quantities and that is why the kit can’t change colors as dramatic. I might very well have used up 1 to 2 ppm, but they are very close in color when in the 5ppm range.
As for the Iron, I am sure my kit sucks .

Today, I will have to do some major trimming again. The rotala on the right is breaking the surface, the moss needs to be cut off to get all the thread mass out, the ludwigia is growing too tall and shades it bottom parts completely, the pearl grass is very tall as well (will cut this and somehow try to create a larger group of it).

And I will remove about 70% of water to reset values. Then I will wait a little and do the testing yet again (maybe not iron though).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Another thought. With all those fish, how many espei now about (100) there's obviously poop, but on the opposite end you must be feeding enough. And if I read you correct your kinda a softy with the fish, so you probably make sure they all get some. So between the fish food, po4 additions you getting those numbers. Also your probably not doing much gravel vac these days. Again is it possible the substrate is leaching no3 and po4 into the water column. Just ideas.

My Scapes

]:|]:|]:|]:|]:|

NOT a good day.

First off – I don’t like the way the tank looks now at all. I trimmed the Ludwigia and the Moss, tons of Moss. Somehow there is no balance in the tank anymore at all. Pictures will follow in a while.

Then I did a 70% water change and while I started to refill my wife decided to invite the neighbors to look at the tank. When I was almost done I realized that the heaters were on (they are supposed to shut off when the water falls too low) and the water temp was just above 70F. About 10 min after the tank was filled I heard this big cracking sound. The heater glass broke right in half.  !!!!

Raced of to the store, all they had was 200W Stealth, bought 2 for $80, raced home and put them in. Now I have 2x200W on the left and 1x300W on the right. I hope this works.

Ingo

PS: I hope the fish don't get Ich now.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Och! Sorry to hear about that. Ya, I have the visi-therm stealth and I've never had a problem but I guess I will shut off when changing the water. You know they do sell inline heaters (Hydor) and I heard they were good. I have just one 250w heater on my tank and it heats the water fine.

and the water temp was just above 70F.
Why was the temp so low. Don't you match tank temp during WC?

Last edited by tetratech at 17-Dec-2005 14:21

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech,

I guess it will take a few hours until the tank is heated back to the normal 76F. This tank is driving me crazy .

Anyways, here is the tank now:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:


EDIT: yeah tetratech, I usually check with my hand (normally I am off only by 1 degree plus minus). But as I said, the wife got a whole family to come over and watch the tank while I refilled it, with 2 small kids. I forgot to check if the temp was ok after the water ran for a while as I had to make sure nobody did something stupid ]:|.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 17-Dec-2005 14:24[/font]

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

But as I said, the wife got a whole family to come over and watch the tank while I refilled it, with 2 small kids. I forgot to check if the temp was ok after the water ran for a while as I had to make sure nobody did something stupid

Believe me, I could definitely relate. I always get nervous the kids are going to fool around in the kitchen and crack my tank. I actually stick a thermoter in the sink so when I'm adjusting temp with the python it shows me what the water temp is and then I fill.




My Scapes

I prefer these junglesque arrangements to other, heavily pruned, straight edged aquascapes. VERY nice.

Thanks Cup

I appreciate it.

“junglesque” – I will have to remember that. Yeah, that was the style I was going for all the way .

I have to admit that it doesn’t look as bad as I may have made it sound before I posted the picture. I added a small powerhead (Rio 90) to the left back as the way the Apons and the Crypt Retro were flowing was just awful after the trimming of the big Ludwigia bush. Now they seem to flow nicer (in my opinion).

I wonder if I soon should try to split the Crypt and how I would go about this. Probably dig it out and take any potential baby plant off and plant it separately, right?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Update – Week 12

Well, this was a week of experimenting with my fertilizers. Although I have dosed K, N, and P only once and micros not at all my readable values on the test kits barely showed a change. Ideas of how this can be are manifold, but none is conclusive. Maybe it has to do with the increased fish load and amount of food I provide (tetratech’s last idea) and I should try to monitor if it all gets eaten soon enough. I am certain that I feed too much (only once a day though) as I want to make sure that the tiny ones at the bottom get their share too.

I also managed to have a heater blow out after a 70% water change. This sucker was supposed to shut off when the water level falls (I think) but I guess it didn’t; and a major distraction led to me filling the tank with only 70F warm water. All it took was 10 more minutes and bang – the glass cracked in half.

Currently my worries are concerning future fertilizer dosages, if the trimming this weekend will limit the algae in the tank, if my fish will show any damage from the temperature difference (like Ich), and if I should try another round of Excel treatment to further limit the algae (the last half-hearted one did not succeed). So plenty to keep at least my brain busy .

The pictures will be of week 0, 3, 6, 9, and yesterday – week 12.

I will also tag on a few detail shots and a section regarding the life of the Espei .

Ingo

Week 0 – how it all started

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 3 – the “weed” phase

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 6 – scaping attempts begin

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 9 – scape is taking more shape

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 12 – yesterday – major removal of moss and trimming (cutting tops and removing bottoms) of ludwigia. Also trimmed the rotala. The Apons have grown pretty much to the surface now , the sword uruguayensis doesn’t do much and is still not visible in pictures (is in front of reactor)

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now some detail shots:

First up some nice long algae threads lower in the tank on the sags. This kind is settled by now in various places, low and high.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A nice shot of the crypt – pearl grass – apon group, with some of the trimmed ludwigia on the right

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Another glosso shot, taken because of the vertical growth that appears in places with limited light. Almost like a regular stem plant.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Uh, now some days in the life of the Espei:

This is one that is maybe 2 weeks old. Pretty much the whole fish is see-through and the tiny yellow and black spot are developing.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is one that is approximately 4 weeks old. The markings become clearer, in particular the black spot.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now this one is a juvenile of about 7 weeks. The body shape is pretty much that of an adult now, the coloration stretches the complete section as in adults, but is a rather bright yellow.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here we have a juvenile that is old enough to join the adults in the school, at least for some time during the day. I guess the age is about 10 weeks. The coloration has now turned more to the characteristic orange-yellow that is seen in adult females.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least here is a male adult in “breeding” colors. He is truly red and when seen in the tank he sometimes has even a tint of purple to it.

[font color="#C00000"]Make sure that you see the pictures on the previous page showing younger Espei [/font]

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

May I say it's very pretty thread algae. You know there are some setups I've seen that are put together just showing algae. Sometimes it's attractive. I would definitely do the calibration. I think for the most part test kits usually work, but there's no benchmark for the color. You need to set that and test off of that. It will be interesting to see if your fert adjustments do anything, but the whole idea of EI is that you don't have to worry about fine-tuning you could dose in excess and than it's removed via WC. You are doing 50% weekly. How many fish are really in the tank? My vote is still for high fish load, high light ---- Algae!! 3 wpg on a 125 is alot of light. You could try reduced the peak period to like 2 hours and see what affect it has.

BTW - On the Rotala M. are you ditching the bottoms and replanting tops only?



My Scapes

tetratech,

Thanks for the compliment on the beauty of my algae

It took me quite a while until I had the tank parameters correct so it grows horizontally like your Wisteria

I have reduced the light last week to 3 hours, but didn’t find this worth mentioning. So out of only 11 hours lighting period 8 are on slightly over 1.5wpg.

Even EI desires a max of NO3 of 20ppm and the default values for adding it are tuned to no fish and food additions. So it makes only sense that you have to adjust the values when “other” factors are coming into play.

The Rotala – once in a while I replant tops while other times I just cut off tops and let the bottoms in the substrate.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Uh, I forgot to add a close-up of the trimmed Rock Valley.

Here it is at rush hour

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

So I did what I actually wanted to do yesterday, measuring my tank parameters. I limited it to N and P.

Remember, I did a 70% water change and before that had about 20ppm N and close to 5ppm of P. My tab is (by last measure from quite a while ago) around 2 ppm of P. I haven’t added any ferts (except 1/2 a tsp of Seachem Equilibrium) to the tank after the water change and fed the fish once since then.

N is around 10ppm and P maybe 3ppm (hard to tell, but closer in color to 2 than 5). Both values make somewhat sense, in particular the P. The N seems a little high, but measuring steps of 5 – 10 -20 leave room for color mistakes. Pretty much what I expected then.

So I will dose the following macros today:

EDIT: Value correction
KNO3 – 1/2tsp
Potassium Sulfate– 1/4tsp
P – nada

For the micros I will wait until tomorrow and hope my TMG will arrive as I have not much faith in Plantex anymore (for no particular reason, but I cannot even find a table or such anymore where I could check how much I am supposed to add – I thought I got the initial value of ½ a tsp from APCs fertilator, but it is not there anymore).

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 18-Dec-2005 17:44

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Why not go back to source for Plantex dosing reccommendation.

http://www.gregwatson.com/HowToDosePlantex.htm

I honestly don't think that's the issue, but I don't know for sure and I guess it's good to eliminate it if that's the case. I've been dosing now 10ml Flourish every other day along with 5ml Flourish trace and I have not seen any increase in algae even with my limited mass.

My Scapes

tetratech,

thanks for the link to the Greg Watson page. I think I am not smart enough to figure out what he is advertising. Here are a few things I don’t understand:

- First off this is a calculation for Plantex CSM+B, I have the one with 10% of Iron (this one is 7)
- The he says to mix 1 tablespoon of it AND 1 tablespoon of Magnesium Sulfate with 0.5 liters of water. I never added any Magnesium besides what is in my Seachem Equilibrium, am I supposed to?
- Then he says you could also mix 1 teaspoon with 1/6 liters (=167ml) of water. In this calculation he doesn’t include Magnesium, why?
- Then he links to the Krib for dosing instructions. We know it is an “old” site, but this statement falls right in line with what I thought – “Dosing just a little bit too much PMDD can lead to a nutrient excess that will give unwanted algae a foothold”. That was before EI, so I will keep this info as a sidenote . Then the Krib moves on and suggests 1/12ml per 10G, which would mean 120G = 1ml per day to get started. For fully functioning tanks they suggest to double the dose, so 2ml per day. If I fertilize 6 days a week that would be 12ml per week
- Then he says you can dose about 1.25 times the Flourish amount. Flourish suggests to use 5ml for 60G (once or) twice a week, so that would be 10ml for 120G and 20ml per week. Now this value times 1.25 gives me 25ml.
- So there is a 50% difference between Krib and Seachem dosing suggestions. Let’s assume the higher value is good, means I would dose 25ml of solution per week.


Now here comes the interesting part (in case you found the other parts boring). 25ml out of a 167ml solution (containing 1tsp of Plantex CSM+B) are approximately 15% of the solution, or in other words 0.15tsp of Plantex CSM+B. I have been dosing 1.5tsp per week for the first 11 weeks of the tanks existence, 10 times the amount per week ]:|]:|]:|

This would explain why I have great problems dissolving my bi-daily micro ferts in even ½ a gallon of water.

Do I misinterpret the Greg Watson statement?
Do I have errors in my calculation?
What am I not getting?
Should I also feed extra Magnesium Sulfate?

ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED IN SOLVING MY MATH CONFUSION.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Holy moly, and here I thought the whole purpose of EI was to not have to worry so much about this stuff...


EDIT: great pics by the way, very nice timeline of fry growth

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 19-Dec-2005 09:20

---

Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

I guess the whole EI thingy is geared more towards the macros. It seems one is pretty much on their own when caculating micros .

Ingo

Anyone have an answer for me?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Still nobody able to help me with the questions 3 posts back?

Come on tetratech, at least you can verify that I interpreted the Greg Watson statement right

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry LF, I'm under the gun on a project and I've only been able to post a few quick messages here and there.

I'll probably read your post thru tomorrow and see how I interpret it.

I still say someone should come up with a formula for mass x growth x waste (Is there an Einstein in the house) I guess Bensaf will have to do.

My Scapes

Gee, don't look at me. I don't know anything about Plantex. I seriously doebt can tell you how much is consumed against plant mass or what is wasted. It's an unknown, we can only guess on observation. Experience would suggest the upper limits are relatively high.

I'd say the confusion on dosages between the hopping back and forth info on The Krib is linked to it's use in PMDD. Remember Plantex was just one component of the PMDD solution, macros were also added. I'd suspect the dosing on those sites is based on a PMDD solution rather then a Plantex only solution.

I guess the whole EI thingy is geared more towards the macros. It seems one is pretty much on their own when caculating micros

Not not really. There are very clear dosage rates for Micros in EI. But it's in terms of using Flourish or TMG or equivilent rather then Plantex.
The only answer I'd have is to dose 20-30ml of either TMG or Flourish 3 times a week. This will take care of everything and the micros will be balanced out in relation to FE. I prefer TMG , it's got a good FE chelator, seems to produce a better sheen to plants. Flourish seems to produce slightly fuller growth, but not as shiny sparkly as the TMG. Just my own observations from using them, could all be a figment of my imagination though.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

The only answer I'd have is to dose 20-30ml of either TMG or Flourish 3 times a week. This will take care of everything and the micros will be balanced out in
That's pretty much in line with what I'm doing in my 72g.
10ml flourish 3/week, plus I'm adding in 5ml flourish trace as well.

I still say someone should come up with a formula for mass x growth x waste (Is there an Einstein in the house) I guess Bensaf will have to do
Actually I should have been clearer, I meant in general as an algae control measure not dosing plantex

Last edited by tetratech at 19-Dec-2005 21:55

My Scapes

Thanks Bensaf and tetratech,

Yeah, when I said one is on its own on micros I forgot to mention that I meant "when using other sources, like Plantex".

I, for my part, will no longer have to struggle with it as my 5 liter TMG bottle will arrive today .

So 30ml 3 x per week is 90ml per week. That means the bottle will last 55 weeks

Still, I could swear that I saw Plantex on the Fertilator a while back (when I got this tank) and I wonder if they took it off because the measurements were wrong. Just trying to blame someone else for my micro dosing amounts .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,

The TMG came last night, but I couldn’t use it yet. I have been at the company Xmas party and came home way too late (and too drunk) to do any dosing .

Also, the 5 liter bottle from Big Al’s doesn’t have any dosing instructions on it. Neither does it list the ingredients. I will check out the Tropica site for details.

This means that my tank hasn’t seen any micros in a week and a half, and only very limited amounts of macros (no P at all). I will measure P and N tonight before dosing anything.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gang,

Well, I measured N and P again, last time was on Sunday, if I remember that right.

P is still above 2ppm, but not by much anymore.
N, on the other hand, bottomed out and is not detectable anymore. That means the plants sucked up 10ppm in 3 days, not too shabby .

I dosed 1/2tsp of KNO3 and 1/8tsp Potassium Sulfate right away.

Somehow I still have not found out how much TMG to dose, first no time and then a PC virus]:| that had to be fixed. I will add 20ml in a little while. Is there the same concern that dosing macros and micros at the same time can cause a bad chemical reaction?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

If I remember correctly the dosing for TMG is 5ml per 50lts of water a week. It also states you can go +/- 50% depending on how established the tank.

I dosed 10-15ml 3 times a week. For your tank 20-30mls X 3 will be fine.

Doing Iron and P at the same time can cause a little cloudiness. Dosing a few hours apart should be fine.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Thanks for the TMG info.

I guess I will stay then with bi-daily fertilizations whereby macros are on micro off days. We will find out what impact, if any, this change from Plantex to TMG will have.

I also created a new thread about my Apons which grow one really long (special) leaf each. Thread is [link=Here]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/67334.html?09921381#" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link]

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

- Did my weekly water change.
- Replanted some plants
- Trimmed the Pearl Grass

Looks like ]:| ]:| ]:|

Will post pictures maybe tomorrow or on Monday,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

ONE 125g tank
+Littlefish
+Tetra
+Bensaf
--------------
One LONG thread

you all are crazy. that tank looks amazing. personally ill stick to the old rule of thumb... K.I.S.S (Keep it simple stupid)

Sin in Style – thanks for the comments

you all are crazy. that tank looks amazing. personally ill stick to the old rule of thumb... K.I.S.S (Keep it simple stupid)

Well, thanks, I guess

But what is the fun in keeping it simple? I like a good challenge, even if I lose once in a while .

And yes, the 3 of us, plus NowherMan6 and a few other, really have the magic to create painfully long threads .

Will post new tank pictures during the day as I did not yet have the time (with all the Xmas stuff going on) to take any.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Update – Week 13

The tank is now up and running for about 3 months, and what a time it was. It feels like forever and on the other hand like no time at all. Things happen so fast and creep along at the same time.

This week was marked by a change in micro fertilizer, switching from Plantex to TMG, we will see if this has a positive impact on the thread algae that is still growing nicely in the tank. I also started another “Excel Treatment” as I have enough of this stuff. I know that this I way will eliminate the identification of reduced algae (if any), but my goal is to get rid of it as soon as I can .

The last water change was accompanied by some pruning, the potential flower stems of the Apons have been cut as they did not seem to carry any flowers. The ends were thinning just below the flower area on on plant while I must have missed the point when the second pierced the surface as it was creeping along the top while staying in water contact all the way. Also, the Pearl Grass has been ripped out and the bottom parts have been disposed off and tops were replanted. Quite a few Sags and Chain Swords have been removed in the process. This gave me the option to divide the mystery Althernanthera, I guess it is a “reineckii 'Lilacina'” into a few pieces and replanting them as a group.

Here are some full tank shots from the last 5 weekends and a few details as well.

First the tank at week 9:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then week 10, the vals have been replaced by cyperus helferi and the apons planted in week 9 are beginning to show:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 11, everything keeps on growing :

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 12, ludwigia and rotala macandra have been trimmed, the rest is growing even more:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 13, this weekend, changes have been performed as described in the weekly tank update post above:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The new Althernanthera group, maybe someone can now identify which type it is:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Apon all the way to the top. The left one is yet again developing a floating leaf, the second in a row. Bensaf is probably right on this plant not being a crispus after all:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am positively surprised by the narrow leaf sag subulata. It has reached the surface and waves nicely in the current:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Previous post deleted, I guess 97kb is not less than 100

Here is a close-up of the ludwigia with crypt retrospiralis on the left (very long leaves by now) and the narrow leaf sags on the right:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least a shot of the glosso. Very soon I will have to trim the plant as it is now layer over layer of glosso:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It looks like plain old Reineckii to me.

But not a very happy Reineckii by the looks of it. It's a painfully slow grower for a stem plant.

Try to leave it and let grow as tall as possible. I find as it gets taller it gets much more sturdy looking. The leaves get bigger and wider and the underside a bright purple. It should branch out a bit too.After that trim it by uprooting and discarding the bottom , it will continue to grow big and strong. Not sure if this is because it gets closer to light or it just needs some time and room to grow.

It can be a very bold strong plant but takes time. It's quite e to stunting if the nitrates drop too low. Leave it there and let it grow as tall as possible (it could take 2 months to hit the surface) , you should see it get wider. Once it's tall enough you can move it anywhere you like.

Personally I find it's so strong looking with the upward pointing leaves it's better suited at the back with just the top half sticking out from dense greenery. When it's tall the lights reflecting off the bright purple undersides can be quite stunning.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Thanks for the plant ID. Plain old Reineckii, hm, no fancy middle name like bensafii or ingoii, too bad .

Yeah, tell me about it being a slow grower. It is in the tank since the beginning and hasn’t done much at all. It only started to grow (and branch out) when the Pearl Grass shadowed it and it needed to stretch to get the light it requires. Most likely that is why it looks so sad, too much shade in the last 2 weeks. But I was able to take 3 of its side branches and plant them separately, plus the main stem with the bottom cut off.

I agree that it should be better in the back of the tank once it has grown to sufficient size, but I guess with the current growth speed this will be at my 60th birthday .

Ingo

Anyone has any comments/suggestions for the tank in general?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, you could definitely grow plants. Now that the pissing contest is over, I hope someone stuffed your stocking with driftwood or rocks.

My Scapes

What :%)

There was a contest? Where was I? Did I miss that all? Or are you talking about your stones? I don’t want them in my Xmas stocking .

Na, didn’t get any driftwood or rocks for Xmas, not even the 55G African Lake Setup I asked for .

Ingo

PS: And what do you mean with I could grow plants, I thought that is what I am doing :%) ?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

55G African Lake Setup I asked for
Are you moving toward salt water?

Pissing contest, just an expression because your plants are growing.

The driftwood would really break up the different plant types.


My Scapes

No, I am not moving towards SW tanks, at least not in the foreseeable future. My wife just happened to as k me what I want for Xmas, and, having no specific idea, I said a 55G African Lake Cichlid tank, knowing very well that I will not get it .

Thanks for the US English 201 help, never heard that term .

Yeah, I have started to look for wood, but I need enormous sized to make an impact. I have stones that wouldn’t even fit in a Nano tank simply disappear in my setup.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, I have started to look for wood, but I need enormous sized to make an impact.

I totally agree you desperately need to some driftwood. This alone will transform your tank from a tank with plants to an actual aquascape. It's crrying out for it.

I don't know where you get this idea you need an enormous piece. You don't. I've mention before a lot of aquascaping is sleight of hand. Lots of small pieces can be made to look like a big impresive piece. My own tank which is only half the size of yours has six different pieces of wood piled on top of one another. It's impossible to tell where one ends and another starts. 70% is not visible anyway.

What you want are branches poking out to add dynamics and depth. Sections that can be planted with moss/fern/anubias to give height and layers. The wood itself doesn't need to be a feature or focal point, it just needs to be a base, a division of areas and a may of adding highlights and accents through the branches. It's doesn't need to be a monumantal attractive piece of wood in itself.

Some go mad with the wood and it becomes a distraction. Look at the good tanks , the wood is usually just branches poking out, the bulk ofthe wood is either planted over or hidden by rocks etc.

A few pieces of branchy driftwood will work fine. Doesn't need to be spectacular or big. Lots of small pieces can be piled up together to get the same effect.Pieces can put on top of a rock "stage" to give height. Wood is real easy to pile up safely, it's not like rock.

As your looking for comments i'll give you my 50 bucks worth (I can never stop a 2 cents ).

I like the tank, it's a real nice foundation. The grassy flowing green look is really good. But that's all it is at the the moment - a foundation. There's no drama, no focus, there's nowhere for the eye to rest, nothing that drags me in and makes me want to look further, needs a bit more depth.

The brush strokes of wood would be a huge help.The other thing I'd do is have a thick grouping of a big strong colorful stem plant. Macrandra is a real nice plant but it's too delicate in a large tank to be a focal. You are using it just fine as is and I wouldn't move it. The Ludwigia is too ho hum to get noticed. I'd go gor a big thicket of a real strong plant to go where the Ludwigia is now. Something like Stella Broadleaf, Limnophilia Aromatica or Ammania Gracillis. This are big wide bold colorful plants. Replacing the same number of stems of Ludwigia with the same number of stems of one of these plants would make a bigger bolder more colorful statement without increasing maintenance.

These two additions would improve your tank hugely without any extra work (wood is zero maintenance).

Ok that was more like $60 worth

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

A check over $60 is on its way

Yeah, I didn’t mean one gigantic piece when I said huge. My thoughts were more geared towards length and branched. If I want to have 30% showing of the wood then the branch length would have to be at least 20inches. And it should preferably be of the same kind of wood. Maybe I send tetratech out to scout the LFS in Long Island to see if they have such sticks.

Ammania Gracillis and the likes: I guess all of that could fall into place once I have found the wood as it would give the tank a whole new look in the first place. I currently love my tall grassy plants and I could imagine having more areas in the back and middle planted with them. I actually don’t like my dwarf sags and pygmy chains that much anymore. They spread like mad and for some unknown reason some of them seem to wither away – their leaves are desintigrating – although they get enough light for sure.

At least I don’t have to worry about getting bored with the tank.

Thanks again for the input, I will try my best,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Maybe I send tetratech out to scout the LFS in Long Island to see if they have such sticks.

The real branchy pieces are hard to find, I don't have those either. Mine have length but don't really branch off.

My DW in the middle was actually part of a bigger piece that I took a sawsall to. You could do that but the area that is cut will not look natural, but as Bensaf pointed out most of it is or eventually will be hidden.

My Scapes

Somehow I still have that fantasy where I snorkel in a lake in the area here and come up with just the right driftwood. But there are a few reasons why this might not work:

a) Way too cold to snorkel
b) I don’t know how to identify the tree from which such wood would come and as such might introduce wood that will rot away quickly
c) It is hard to convince the family that Papa has to go on a driftwood hunting trip

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

d)Depends on what part of Jersey your snorkling in.

LF I was in Plainsboro NJ (Right near Princeton) on Monday. Took Exit 8a NJ Turnpike.

My Scapes

Yeah, I was not intending to snorkel anywhere in NJ, don’t want to get a rash

I was thinking more about Upstate New York.

Exit 8 on the Turnpike is probably as far away from me as you are.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gang,

On the menu for this week is another attempt to get my fertilizing routine to be more stable and to not supersede the target values.

As such I feed

Potassium Nitrate every other day only 1/2 of a teaspoon
Potassium Sulfate every other day only 1/8 of a teaspoon
TMG on the same days as the macros 20ml

On Friday evening I will measure Phosphates (tab = 2ppm and has been a little higher before the last water change) and Nitrates (which I purposefully let bottom out over a week ago as an experiment) and see if I need to add some more in the future.

I also currently do another Excel dosing session (since the last water change) with the initial dosage of 50ml and every day since then 20ml. I was hoping it would help me to get rid of the thread algae that remained in the tank after the major pruning attempt 2 weeks ago. So far it doesn’t look like it would help, although I haven’t seen any additional growth either (maybe I am not looking close enough). But a few bushels of brush algae that I have (nothing major) are turning red and are dying.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On Friday evening I will measure Phosphates (tab = 2ppm and has been a little higher before the last water change) and Nitrates (which I purposefully let bottom out over a week ago as an experiment) and see if I need to add some more in the future.
Jersey Water

That's interesting with the excel, so it REALLY worked the first time and after that it wasn't as effective with the same dosing. Did it work on all algae, even BGA which isn't really algae. So your dosing 5 times normal and then 2 times.

I might try it in my 12g which has some BGA or in the 72g which has BBA on the rocks.





My Scapes

tetratech,

I am not sure what kind of algae is affected by the Excel.

BBA for sure, as I see it die ].

BGA – I haven’t tried it on BGA as the only time I had that in my big tank I treated it with Maracyn, and that was weeks before the first Excel attempt. Maracyn works very well.

The second round of Excel treatment wasn’t a full blown attack (maybe 2 to 3 weeks back) but more of a half-hearted attempt to achieve something. Well, that didn’t work what-so-ever.

The first round was performed when I in particular had a significant amount of BBA and that worked very well (dosing 50ml then 50%water change, 50ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml).

This time around I have very few BBA and it is already dying, but the thread doesn’t seem to care (but no growth either, which could also stem from normalized Phosphate values and/or switching to TMG, aka less Iron addition). So far, I dosed 50ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml, and I plan to dose 2 more days at 20ml each.

Ingo

EDIT: I replaced the Brush term with BBA as I think that is what I have/had, if there is any difference.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 29-Dec-2005 08:04

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Maracyn
The regular mardel product, regular dosing?

Brush term with BBA
There's many different types of brush algae, but yes brush and bba is one in the same as far as these dicussions.



My Scapes

The regular Mardel product, yes.

I forgot what the regular dosage was, but I think I even stayed on the light side of it.

I added 4 tablets, spread throughout the tank, each day for 5 days. Bensaf didn’t like that, he never made a comment about it after I used it, but when I mentioned I will give this a try he voted against it.

I also used it on my 20G (which was the first tank I used it on) and it worked also very well. I actually assume I introduced BGA to the big tank by adding plants (the Rotala) from the 20G that were already infested.

In addition, on both tanks, I changed the water flow as there were some very low current areas. In the 20 I repositioned the HOB to the middle of the tank, in the 125 I added temporarily a powerhead to blow some current across the front of the tank (things have changed since then again, as you know).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Interesting,

I didn't have bga in my 12 until I changed the light from 1.1wpg to 2.3wpg. My 12 actually has very good water movement from the HOB and it you could see the java moss swaying in the current. The tank has very little mass (just java moss and some wisteria). The filter is a small whisper HOB from the AGA 5gallon I had. I had a sheet of coarse filter media and I just threw it in.

I believe this comes down to waste and light again. My guess is the tank has too much light and not enough biofilter to control the BGA. BGA is a bacteria after all. I've now added some eheim efisubstrate to the filter and put some eco complete from the 72g into the back of the tank. This is my educated guess. If this doesn't work I will either do the marcyan or emycin.

My Scapes

Tetratech,

I think BGA can manifest itself in many ways. So far I have heard about:

a) Foreign introduction (plants, gravel from other tank etc)
b) Low Nitrates with other nutrients being available (can fix its own Nitrate)
c) Lack of current

I would rule out light as a direct source. Sure, it will speed up the process of growth, but it seems to appear in low light tanks as well as high light tanks.

What an interesting little bugger this is .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

Because I am bored, here is another part from the Espei Education Department

I hope I don’t bore you all too much

Location division within the tank

The oldest juveniles (maybe 9 weeks and up) and the adults occupy the top levels of the water. They preferably hang out on the left side of the tank.

Younger juveniles (between 4 and 9 weeks) are scattered throughout the tank, on low levels close to the substrate.

Even younger ones (2 to 4 weeks) team up on the lower right hand side of the tank, in the back.

And the tiny fry (less than 2 weeks) is hiding most of the time within the plants close to the substrate.

Here is a shot of the left side with the old guys

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here, I made an effort to count them, I think I circled 44 in this picture

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here, already circled, are the 2 to 4 week old ones on the left of the Macandra group

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Interesting about the fish locations by size. I definitely see why you go by the name of Little_Fish.

So in the tank you have a few otos, 2 gourmais, and a few hundred espei?

My Scapes

Yeah, being a fish-newbie was only one reason why I selected the name LITTLE_FISH. The others were that I like little fish (not that hard to guess) and I made it upper case to put some emphasis behind it . Like a little fish with really big teeth .

Acutally, the tank currently has 6 Otos (as of last Saturday when I was lucky enough to see them all) and 5 million Espei (acutally, I guess there are still less than 100, maybe 80).

The Pearls are still in the QT as I don't want to introduce them while I am still messing with the tank like a madman .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So there's no enemy for the espei other than the adults themselves and the filter intake?

My Scapes

That's right

They got their own version of Garden Eden, and the filter intake is the the snake that lures them into biting into the apple (eh - didn't come up with something better) .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

That works for me.

As for being bored how about sending me some Glosso? = ) Take your time. I might actually place an order for some a long with some other plants. I need to do some checking around first.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingsdlc,

Let me know if you ordered some Glosso.

Otherwise, I will have to find a good way to ship it to you. Any suggestions, like UPS, USPS, overnight, or what?

I would probably have to cut it in the evening and have it float over night, then pack it in the morning and have the wife bring it to the sender (Post Office or UPS drop off) in the morning.

Ingo

PS: I have never shipped any plants anywhere

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Going to PM you.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ok,

I measured my tank parameters again yesterday evening, at least N and P.

N is back up to almost 20ppm, even if it was completely depleted a week earlier and I only added 3 x 1/2tsp of KNO3 during the week.
P stands as about 2ppm, which is a little less than last weekend, and I didn’t add any.
The only other elements I added to the tank where 3 x 20ml of TMG, 3 x 1/8tsp of Potassium Sulfate, and a daily shot of Excel (as described a few posts earlier).

I guess for the next week I will keep this schedule, I would assume that P will fall a little below 2ppm and N might get a little over 20ppm.

Problems that I currently have still include the thread algae that, although not rampant, is doing just fine in the tank (high lights are down to 3 hours per day since weeks). Also, some of my Dwarf Sags and/or Pygmy Chain Swords have melting leaves, I will have to read up on that as it has happened on and off during the entire time the tank is set up.

A weekly water change will follow later today,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I can't imagine with all those plants that your n is so high. Did you ever do the PPS calibration? When I did that I was surprised. My levels were lower than I thought by simply looking at those ridiculous color charts.

What would add to N all that espei poop and those melting leaves? Oh I forgot, Jersey water



My Scapes

No tetratech,

to my shame I have to say that I did not do the PPS calibration yet. And it might very well be that it has something to do with the Jersey water .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update – Week 14

Well, this one could also be labeled annual tank update, although it would be only the first one of its kind (in the hope that another will follow in one year; I wonder what that would look like). The tank is now up and running for 14 weeks, many many posts account for all the things that have been going on in that time. The ones that stick mostly in my memory are:

- Planting of the initial setup seemed to be a lot of plants, but in retrospect was only a rather small mass.
- I would guess that half of the plant species from the initial setup are no longer in the tank. All but one did not seem to fit the design of the tank any longer, and the one (Egeria Densa) fell victim to a rigorous Excel treatment.
- Various types of algae have befallen the tank during this time, from the rather harmless Brown Slime to the not so pleasant Blue Green Algae. None was so bad that the tank had to be stripped down but there were annoying anyways. The currently active one is Thread algae that do not seem to be very impressed by an Excel cure.
- Most importantly was (is) the breeding of my Espei that, within all this mess mentioned above, managed to grow their population by at least 500% to anywhere from 70 to 100 fish.

As for changes during the last week, not much has changed. This water change saw some pruning of the Ludwigia and the cutting of some runners of the Chain Swords as they always try to invade the Glosso. I sure don’t have a low maintenance tank, but that was not the intention anyway.

Well, I initially thought about posting all the weekly tank pictures, but I think that 15 are a little too much and get boring. So I will show every other week to shorten the pain.

Here is the tank at setup, soooooo many plants

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

2 weeks later the tank was at full bloom, lots of fast growers were making sure that the tank establishes itself as fast as possible.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

In week 4 the first steps at some scaping were taken, most of the really bushy fast growers had been removed by then as they were outgrowing any other plant in the tank.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 6 saw more scaping, still in the beginning though. The Dwarf Sags and Pygmy Chain Swords are still small and sparse.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

In and around week 8 major replanting occurred where entire groups of plants have been moved from one location to another, or even left the tank all together to make space for new plant types.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 10 marked the end of this replanting frenzy and only smaller changes like pruning etc start to take preference.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club