FishProfiles.com Message Forums

LF if I knew what water sprite was I would have told you where to put it

I just love your tank. I think it looks great and I know I know nothing about plants, although thanks to you that is sort of changing!

I like the recent pics, the tank looks alot more "organised" if you see what I mean?

Am so glad the algae has gone - by the looks of the pics.

GFG

Last edited by goldfishgeek at 23-Oct-2005 19:30

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

Now that we're done with the algae, it's down to the nitty gritty - aquascaping.

Now the real work begins.

The plants are real healthy but there's no real flow. At the moment it looks like a haphazard mixture of plants. The water sprite is too strong and dense and the more intersting plants are too few and too small in comparison and as a result are completely overshadowed. The other plants need to make more of a "statement" to stand out from the WS.

For the sake of your sanity I think you are going to need more non stem plants in there. Consider Swords, Crypts and Grassy plants.

Tetras suggestion is great but may be difficult to achieve without just the right plants. Another options is the flip side of the same coin. If the focal point is to be the rock bridge you can try a concave design, tall on either side sloping down to the rocks. Probably not as attractive as tetras suggestion but less work.

More variance of leaf shape and size. Some more interesting grassy plants. The corkscrew val is probably not enough to make much of an impression. Something like Val. Nana/Val. Natans or Cyperus Helfiri. Much taller but very fine leaves so they won't overshadow anything. Tall crypts like Balansae and Spiralis again have the height but are very graceful.

Swords or Apons would give an added shape and texture. For swords you can use the smaller or narrow leafed types. Uruguaysis (I probably make a complete hash of that spelling) Narrow Leaf Rubin, there's quite a few to choose from. Apons are good, Capuroni is a really beauty, nice height, interesting color and texture. Criniums are good, real easy, interesting looking.

Crypts, Blyxa Japonica for a mid section. Specimen Anubias for a mid ground splash.

Try some bigger bolder stem plants to work with and contrast to the finer leaved stems. Big ones like Hygro Corymbosa, Hygro. Augustifolia, Limnophilia Aromatica, Ammania Gracillis, more Reineckii (yes that's what's in the photo, just the leaves are a little funnily shaped on that one). Big bold groups of these at the back with the smaller finer leaved stems at the front show each off better.

Tighten everything up. Keep the different types of stem together. Don't have a bit of one stem here, and another bit of the same plant there, keep them grouped together or just one highlighting/contrasting species in the middle. This kind of grouping works very well on long low tanks.

What ? You still reading this ? Get to work on that tank !

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

upikabu –

I actually don’t use a flash on the pictures; it is the reflection of the light on the plant leaves that make it so bright . Yes, there is still quite a bit of Water Sprite left in the tank (all the way on the left and to the left of the rock arrangement) and Wisteria is in there as well.

I agree that they are hard to maintain, but their purpose was (is) to suck up nutrients and to give the plants a head start over the algae. That’s also the reason I refer to them as weeds . I only removed half of it so that the tank as a whole doesn’t go through a dramatic change. The rest will follow in the upcoming week(s).

tetratech –

My wife doesn’t think I am nuts, she knows it for fact

I sure do want to have your design opinion (but I will not add black substrate ). I hear what you say and I have thought about this as well. The only problem that I see with your vision is that I would have only a few plants left (all ground cover guys) and a lot of empty open space (plus hardware fully visible). To avoid this problem I thought I might go with high ends and then fall off, like you can see in the attached pic.

The curtain scenario is not my favorite as it tends to make the tank look like a rectangular box.

goldfishgeek –

Thanks for the compliments, I appreciate your input. I know I still have ways to go but I enjoy this phase very much as the road to success is at least as exciting as the success itself.

Bensaf –

You are right, at the moment it is a haphazard mix of plants. As explained above, the remaining Water Sprite will be removed slowly in phases. All replanting so far had 3 purposes (list)

1) Getting an idea of what might look good where, but more from a shape rather than a particular plant and position.
2) Saving plants that might stay in the tank in the long run and throwing out sure dislikes.
3) Slowly transferring from a nutrient sucker to a planted tank.

I am so glad that you gave me this list of non-stem plants as I was just waiting for the right time to ask about them. I will take my time and look into each one of them (also their availability).

About getting back to work on the tank – the wife is really getting mad as their was not one weekend out of the last 4 where I didn’t work on my tanks (water change and pruning on the 20G and 29G as well) for at least 6 hours total. Plus all the time I spend just staring at them.

All -

Anyone have any idea of why my Reactor is going mad? Uh, almost forgot – My reactor became a venturi reactor by accident. The tube has a tiny leak on top where the curved inset is fused to the pipe. This concludes in tiny CO2 bubbles escaping on top of the Reactor and most are immediately pulled back in via the Rio pump.

Thanks a lot to all of you,

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:


Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 24-Oct-2005 09:12[/font]

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The equipment definitely has an influence on aquascaping.
Right now I have a black stealth vis-therm heater so with my black background you don't see it). I'm shopping for a black eheim/compatible return tube to replace my current green one. So the only thing left is the diffusor/reactor and that can obviously be done externally. I'm currently using black stealth tubing so you don't see that either.

Anyway getting back to your tank. If you end up doing your decision IMO you need to keep the corners fairly green (different shapes, but fairly even in color and than have most of the color appear in that rock area. That will still keep the main focal point clear. You clearly have a focal point in the tank, unless you change that.

My Scapes

tetratech,

I drew another line into the picture to help with the understanding of how I envision the plant arrangements.

This line is the border of low plants to middle/tall plants. The higher the line gets the deeper into the tank I imagine low plants to grow. Does that make any sense :%)?

As you can see, towards the left side would be an area where the tall plants (yellow line) cut off and only low plants remain and then a slope would be formed by middle sized plants towards the focus point.

What do you think?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh, here is the Picture, duh...

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Not much is there to write about my tank today.

One thing would be that the number of Espei fry I have begins to worry me. They like to hang out most in the new low plant area to the right of the rock formation and there are so many of them that it is impossible to count them. They are of all ages, between 3 weeks and just a few days. There seems to be a major production machine in the tank . I only hope that this will lessen a little once the breeding leaves are lessened in numbers. I already wonder how I ever will be able to catch these buggers once they are large enough to be traded at the LFS (they say I would need to give them about 30 to make it worth while, they would give me credit of about $1 per fish).

EDIT: Besides the above mentioned area, there are at least another 10 to 20 spread out throughout the tank.

Another thing is that my Reactor is still going crazy. I have no idea why there are all of a sudden so many bubbles in it. I checked the tubing and cannot find a leak. Over night the tube is full of water which would have leaked out. Can I be that the lower position of the filter pad (flush with the reactor’s bottom) makes such a difference?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 25-Oct-2005 09:19

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey LF,

Why don't you just let big school of the espei develop. What your tank you could easily hold 50 to 60 and it would look really great.

Can't help you with the reactor since I haven't used one yet. I'm still deciding on what reactor/diffisor I want to use when I replace the hagen ladder.

BTW- On your previous post. I think that's a good idea the way you laid it out with the second line for the shorter plants. I usually like to make a small change take a look at the tank and then adjust from there. Is way it's not overwhelming. Also from the pic your xmas moss looks good.






Last edited by tetratech at 25-Oct-2005 19:14

My Scapes

tetratech,

Thanks for the comment on the layout, I agree that small changes at a time will give me (us) a better idea of where a design is heading. About the large school, no doubt does it look striking, as can be seen in all the Harlequin Rasbora landscapes from Amano. But I am still just a fish beginner and as such tend towards having more of a variety rather then a single species 125G tank.

All,

Well, not a good day yesterday (guess I need them once in a while so I can whine a little). I have my first death in the tank, an Oto caved in. I hope it was one of the new ones that I just recently acquired as I was not giving them a high survival rate to begin with (just been shipped to the LFS and young).

Also, the brown slime (diatoms) is coming back. I attribute this to my messing around in the tank last weekend when I took out so much weed that I for sure must have raised a lot of gunk (and with it silica) into the water column. Unfortunately, any little string of algae in the tank is now magnified as the slime attaches to it, including the moss that just started to look better. Maybe I do a little water change tonight and suck out as much of it as I can get (around 20 to 25 G of water).

I also turned off the power head in the front right corner; I think I have enough current in the tank without it now that the plants are shorter.

Thanks,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
You have a 125g tank. It's like a block long, you could easily have 40 of those espei in there and have plenty of room for some other nice fish and smaller schools. Besides it seems like you have free supply as well and sell of the extras to the LFS.

Otos
It's very hard to account for otos, once you acquire a certain number. I'm amazed you found the dead one in that tank. I have seven, but the most I've ever been able to count was 6 at one time.

Slime
Want me to send you a willow branch? Rooted and budding

My Scapes

Want me to send you a willow branch?

Nah, I will try first the German Oak Tree that is growing in our backyard .

The older fry (about 3 weeks I guess) are now swimming in the open but have not yet started to school with the grownups. This weekend I will try to get a photo where you can actually see them. I agree that 40 of them would be a great school, but I am almost afraid that there are way more. I also cannot be sure that the LFS will take them, especially if I arrive each week with another 30 .

I have just recently (maybe 3 months ago) started to have Otos and my losses overall are at about 50%. I read that this is quite common but any fish loss is hurting, even more so the first in a particular tank. The one that hurt me most so far is the loss of my pair of German Rams even before they had a chance to get into the large tank.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Interesting story, I was in Aquarium adventure last week and some women was buying a german ram, I usually don't say anything, but when the owner (I think) of the store walked away, I said to her those fish are very difficult to take care of, so we started talking and she was putting it in a 6gallon tank with some other fish and I was telling her they don't do good with any kind of stress whether it be water quality, other fish, temp change, etc. and then the fish store owner walked over and we were still talking. The fish store owner than went on to debate me on the hardiness of german rams and I didn't really want to get into, but I went on to say from my experience they are a difficult fish to keep. I think the guy was pissed at me, but I went on to say that the store has great fish and I buy here all the time, just not the rams.

BTW - The bolivian ram is really a great fish and I think you would enjoy one or more in your tank. My bolivian survived my "White Cloud" being switched between several different tanks before he landed in my 72. He is a great fish and I'm thinking about getting more. You could also go with a Keyhole Cichlid. I saw some young ones at Aquarium Adventure. They also had a Chocolate Cichlid, but I believe those might be more agressive.

Last edited by tetratech at 27-Oct-2005 08:29

My Scapes

tetratech,

You are right on all points. I was/am considering Bolivians myself but given that I am German the German Ram gets preference (I know it is not a native fish to Germany). One thing that makes me a little worried about the Bolivian is that it is, based on its larger size, a bigger aquascaper than the German. This will probably not be a problem if you have only one as no pre-breeding ritual might kick in, but if you have a pair it could become an issue (Untitled experienced this himself).

I also once sent an entire family home for additional homework. They were about to purchase a 20G at the LFS but had no clue and they were in the middle of being steamrolled by the sales guy (no offense to all LFS employees here at FP, I know that you would not do that). I can tell you that the sales guy didn’t like it. One thing I have not yet got myself ready to argue about is the tank of painted tetras, but I am sure that I will say something eventually.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, I'm of Russian decendent, don't think there's too many tropical fish from that region.

Bensaf has two bolivians but he might have too males. I believe they aren't that difficult to sex.

My one bolivan did dig a little trench for himself under a small piece of driftwood, but he hasn't damaged anything and never bothers anyone. They only go to about 5" in your tank it will still look small.

AA also had some of those red zebra danios for sale, like $5 a piece of a danio, but I guess certain beginners and kids are attracted to these fish.

My Scapes

One thing that makes me a little worried about the Bolivian is that it is, based on its larger size, a bigger aquascaper than the German. This will probably not be a problem if you have only one as no pre-breeding ritual might kick in, but if you have a pair it could become an issue (Untitled experienced this himself).

Ingo: I have a breeding pair of Bolivian Rams (already bred twice in the last 2 months) and they never did any damage to the plants or mess the aquascape, even when they were making multiple depressions on the sand (among the forest of chain swords) to move the wrigglers around. They do munch on the sand, but never uproot any plant in the process. Then again, maybe I just have a neat pair.

-P

upikabu,

maybe I just have a neat pair

Or maybe Untitled No4 has just a very messy one .

Thanks for the info, it will help me when the time is right to add any Ram to the tank. This though will not happen for quite a while as I want the home to be nicely settled when they move in.

At the moment it doesn’t look like I am winning my algae battle. The dark string (assuming BBA) are covering most of the small plants on the foreground and the edges of the anubias and a few other plants. I haven’t dosed Phosphor in about 3 weeks now and had the values down to maybe 1ppm by last weeks end. I wonder if that actually helped the BBA while it slowed down other types of algae? So last night I added a shot of Phosphor and I will see if it has any effect.

All I know for sure is that this coming Sunday I will have to spend quite some time “cleaning” this mess up. The wife will be so pleased]:|.

Ingo


Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 28-Oct-2005 03:54

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gang,

The impression of my tank tonight can be described with one word:

DISGUSTING

I can’t believe that all the brown slime is returning and attaches itself to the continuously growing BBA algae, it that’s what it is.

If it wouldn’t be for all the nice Espei fry I would tear that whole thing down and start anew. Something has to happen.

I know I might be over critical and it really doesn’t show that well on pictures, but I will try to show you what I mean. Here is the whole tank.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A close-up from the top of the rocks

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One from the sags and swords, you can see that the whole area in between is covered

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Xmas moss on the rock

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On a better note, an Espei fry swimming in the open

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Same fry, just closer. You can clearly see the black spot and what appears to be a more yellow than orange body coloration.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

very cool pics little fish, am very jealous you can breed non livebearing fish and also the fact that your pictures come out so good.

impressive.

GFG


p.s I know you hate it, but honestly you want disgusting, my 35 G with the yellow plants and hopeless lights beats your gorgeous 125. have faith in the system - algae will go its probably cos you did the WC ? was that you? too many logs too little brain space. it will go! and to be honest I can't see it! mind you given my lack of plant knowledge I probably think it is part of the moss or some thing
xx

Last edited by goldfishgeek at 28-Oct-2005 19:01

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

Oh dear. BBA is horrible junk. I have some similar stuff growing on my substrate, though it does not grow on the plant, s I am unsure as to what it is really.

But the fact you have fry is awesome ^ ^. I'd help you get rid of the BBA if I coul , but I don't know how to deal with the stuff, so I shall sympathize with you, since know what a nuissance algae can be like.

Since Bensaf is busy (something about lizards, insects, bats and flopping fish) I'll give you my amateur 2 cents.

Your still getting algae, sounds like the BBA is bothering you the most. I think you have two options.

1. Cut as much of the crap out as you can and plunge the tank into darkness for a few days. When you restart do a 50% WC and have the purigen ready to go and start with good co2 consistent Co2 and use half of the lighting system. If everything looks to be going good start to increase light and light ferts, eventually heavier ferts.

2. Many people have had success using Flourish Excel for many algae types. You could double dose this and see what happens.

Both of these options are Espei Fry safe


Last edited by tetratech at 28-Oct-2005 20:11

My Scapes

I can't see any BBA ???

What I can see is what looks to me to be a lot of Staghorn Algae.

What causes staghorn ? Low Macros ! How to cure it ? Add Macros.

It's quite easy to beat back.

Have you reduced your macro dosing too much. If I remembered correctly you haven't added phosphate in a while. Nitrate ?

The only way to be 100% certain they're there is to add them.

Adding light ferts would be counter intuitive to me. If the Co2 is good and consistent that's the time you need decent ferts not light doses. Unless you still cling to the belief that Nitrate and Phosphate cause algae. As you know I don't. Also it goes back to what I keep harping on about like a broken record (is that a mixed metaphor ?), don't let the algae dictate how you grow the plants. If you vary dosages to try to combat algae you get more issues not less.

I suspect you thought the algae disappearing before was because of reduced doses. It wasn't. Now you may have run things too tight. Probably still trusting the damn test kits too !?

I look at the pics at an alarm immediately switches on in my head and there's a red warning light flashing. It reads "tank with low macros". That's just what I see when I look at the pics.


Last edited by bensaf at 28-Oct-2005 21:55

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

GFG, Megil, tetratech, and Bensaf,

Thank you so much for your input and sympathy. Last night I was on one hand considering tetratech’s solution, lights out for a few days. But, for obvious reasons, I don’t love that idea too much as I didn’t setup this tank to keep it in the dark .

So, on I go to Bensaf’s statement:

You know, when I selected the first algae picture in my last entry, and when I said BBA (if that’s what it is), I had something in mind but didn’t dare to write it down – Staghorn. All my readings about algae state that BBA is very short strings (1/4 of an inch) and in particular the one on the rock is much much longer and shows the divisions of the individual strands very clearly.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any explanation on the web why Staghorn occurs. All I could find was that it usually attaches itself to hardware (that then should be washed in a bleach solution) and appears mostly close to the surface. But I have it on the ground as well. Too much light? One change I made about 6 days ago was that I increased my double light period from 3 to over 5 hours. That might have done it.

On the other hand, and listen carefully Bensaf, I haven’t tested ph, nitrate, and what not for quite a long time now. The only one that I tested for was phosphates and even the last test there is about a week ago. I added some Phosphate 2 days ago because I had the feeling that I might get low. Reason: I have 2ppm tab water reading and the tank sucks some of it up. So 4 days after water change I figured it is getting low.

Now, given the Macro increase advice, the question is which macro to increase. First off, I could go ahead and add a consistent amount of Phosphate. This in turn should automatically also increase my Potassium as it is contained in the KH2PO4. I might want to hold off with adding additional KNO3 as I already dose 1tsp every other day (and so far I have never missed a dosing – micros and macros).

I guess I will start sucking out some of the gunk today (if I find the time) and do a 50% water change tomorrow as scheduled.

Thanks again for the input,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hold on now, you sound like a rocket scientist :%)
Stop me if I'm wrong, but the EI method is designed to be just the opposite. It allows for a wide range of nutrient levels than resets the tank with the WC.

You could micro management and over analyze(something I've been accused of doing, right Bensaf) and than something else will happen and you'll be constantly changing things to correct something else.

The reason I mentioned the blackout at this time is because you said "If it wouldn’t be for all the nice Espei fry I would tear that whole thing down and start anew."
Well the blackout will protect the fry and it's the closest thing to starting anew. cut, rescape, take out the junk and have an nice weekend. Come the new year (that's Nov 1st) in the old celtic society. Halloween is the end of the old year when the dead visited the earth (get it scary stuff for halloween) and all kinds of sacrifices were made. Bonfires were built to sacrifice animals to the Gods, so instead of burning animals we will plunge alga into a hell of darkness.......Yes dear, I'll take out the garbage. Gotta Go

My Scapes

What :%)

Gee, drunk at 7 AM



Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 29-Oct-2005 07:24

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I was just getting going and the wife interrupted me to take out the trash.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. The blackout will allow you to take a break from the tank, your wife will love you for it.
Many advanced aquarists do blackouts to eradicate things they can't get rid of. I don't disagree with everything Bensaf is saying, but I think the blackout will help to eradicate most of the algae and when you'll get a fresh start with a mature biofilter mature plantmass.



My Scapes

Saturday Afternoon,

I just spent another 5 hours on the tank. What have I done:

Sucked out some of the gunk with a small vacuum, about 10 gallons.
Removed the remaining Water Sprite, created a big mess in the process, soooo much gunk collected in these plants.
Did a 50% water change and sucked the gunk out as much as I can.
Ripped out some leaves that were heavily affected by algae, some have the typical appearance of BBA, short black hairs.
Hand cleaned the Xmas Moss in the tank.
Refilled the tank.
Waited 20min and did another 50% water change to remove more gunk.
Added water back in.
Removed Reactor and cleaned it.
Remove filter output pipe and cleaned it.
Cleaned the filter itself, just rinsed the media in tank water (in bucket) and squeezed the pads.
Added macros, baking soda, and equilibrium.
Moved the power head to be after the Reactor in the flow direction.

I am sure that I did not manage to remove all algae. I hope that I get it under control by regular fertilization and proper CO2. If that doesn’t help then I might try tetratech’s dark tank method.

Now, about an hour after I finished the job, the Espei are at it again, they love the fresh water and after each water change I can be sure that another 10 fry will be added to the tank, but now the hiding places become limited and maybe more eggs will be eaten. We will see. I also had the pleasure to account for all 7 Otos. One has a booboo on his back (since I got him) and I hope it will heal.

Here is the tank now (BTW, the green spot on the left at water surface area is my growing group of Duck Weed):

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Looking good LF,

Hope you get over the hurdle, but if it doesn't work I think the blackout will be a big help. At least you could enjoy the tank over the weekend and then if you need the blackout you could do it mid-week.

Couple of questions:

I think you said you bought a backup generator? Can you give me some specifics?

When you restart you Eheim, do you get gunk flowing back into the tank. What process do you use to restart?



My Scapes

Sounds like a plan, I will further consider it .

Backup Generator: No – I don’t have such a device. What I have is a battery powered Air Pump that runs on 2 D batteries and should last for at least 12 hours when running full steam (I hope).

Eheim Startup: I restart the filter by filling it with tank water before closing it, then hooking up the quick valve (1 for both intake and outlet), and plugging it in . That’s it, nothing else is required, starts like a charm. If I would not refill the filter first I would have to use the big push button on top of the filter to pump water into it, but even that is doable as I did it this way at the very first startup. \

And yes, there came some flaky stuff out when I restarted it, I am sure that it comes from the pipe itself. It wasn’t too much though.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly update for Week 5

The tank has gone through some more changes:

The remaining Water sprite has been removed as it was growing so well that it overshadowed everything else.

Lots of labor went into the tank yesterday when I did 2 50% water changes and removed some algae by hand. Nevertheless, algae issues remain. The latest effort has been to make sure that all ferts (including phosphor) are present in significant values and that the CO2 is humming nicely.

The first fish (Oto) died in the tank, about 5000 new Espei fry have been born ( well maybe not quite that many).

For additional details, just read the sections between now and the last weekly update. Here are some pictures now. There is also one where I ask for a plant identification as it was a small stem when I got it and I for sure didn’t order it.

Have fun,

Ingo

Review, Tank Week 1

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Review, Tank Week 3

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Today, Tank Week 5

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Egeria Najas with adult Espei on bottom left and out-of-focus fry on top right (plant has grown at least double in height since last weekend)

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Unknown Plant (maybe Baby Tears? ) in front left corner, identification is appreciated.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Rock Valley with Xmas Moss walls

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Close-up of Xmas Moss section with stringy algae

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Glosso carpet 14 days ago

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Glosso carpet now, growing in

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tank really looks nice after the cleanup, but if the algae remains I think your really need to "shock" (blackout) it to finally be rid of it. Your tank conditions now are probably much better to deal with it, but the "seeds" for this were planted at startup. Everyone's hindsight is 20/20, but let's recap:

LF's Tank: High Light, Immature Plant Mass, No biofilter
RESULT: Many flavors of algae

TT'S Tank: Medium Light, Immature Plant Mass, Some biofilter/eco complete contains (Heterotrophic Bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants)
RESULT: Green Water

Bensaf's Tank: Medium Light, Mature Plant Mass, Heavy biofilter
RESULT: No Algae

Notice I didn't even mention ferts. Bottom line is algae with grow especially in strong light with very little waste. There is small levels of waste in tap water, enough to feed the algae if the light is strong enough. I'm still on the fence if the nutrients fueled their growth after the algae started to grow, but they don't need alot to get started, nothing detectable by you any way. The biofilter is hugh at the begining to eat the waste. Most highly respected aquarist use carbon and don't fert in the beginning. I don't believe cuttings are using the ferts from the getgo, they are using internal reserves.

Last edited by tetratech at 31-Oct-2005 07:19

Last edited by tetratech at 31-Oct-2005 07:28

My Scapes

LF,

Read this:
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel_faq.html

My Scapes

tetratech,

I assume you are referring to the first Q/A section where they talk about Excel being able to kill algae.

Sounds interesting, in particular when you add the statement of a later Q/A that you can use both CO2 and Excel together with added benefits (although they don’t say what that would be).

Maybe I should go ahead and dose Excel, glad I have a 2 liter bottle of it at home.

Thanks ,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, the first Q/A.
I sent this to you because the response comes from Seachem itself, not just some board (although the board might be less bias, but at least seachem is going on record that this is an added benenfit of the product. The only thing is I've read that you need to overdose the product for it to really have an affect on algae, so you might even went to call the 800 number at Seachem and ask them. Also I don't know if overdosing will affect your espei fry more than a full grown fish.

My Scapes

Grrr, isn’t there one option that doesn’t make me worried about my fry ?

See, I even think that a 5 day dark period is dangerous to the fry as you don’t feed during this time. Espei are supposedly excellent hunters and if their bellies get empty, well that’s when they remember that they made all these lovely little babies.

I am tired, I guess I will just see how the tank looks tonight.

BTW, I lost another Oto. I mentioned earlier that I had one with a booboo from the get-go and it could have been him. I am not sure though as it didn’t look all that “fresh” anymore when I found him. And I only can count 5, although there should be 6.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm not saying it's a problem, I would call seachem. You could probably even discuss your algae problem with them. Although they'll probably try to convert you to seachem products for your ferts

One thing I have realized is you really have to be educated and have self control what fauna anf flora you put in your tank, becuase when if you adjust for one thing, it might affect something else. It's tough to maximize conditions for all things. I know this sounds mean, but you can't worry about all those fry. In nature you know how many of those fry grow up to be adult espeis?







My Scapes

Hi Guys,
This has been an interesting series of reading for that I
thank you. However... You guys are "ate up" with the
"impatience bug." You seem to want to have beautiful
tanks (which you do) but algae free (which you won't) and
immediately (which will never happen).

I seem to be on a "Patience" kick lately. Responding to
many posts. Chat with Ben. Back when he first started
here he posted with an algae problem and I gave him some
suggestions. They worked, but... took a while. Since then
he has had some stunningly beautiful tanks and all with
very very little algae.

You have to give yourself and your tanks time for something
to work. Cutting off the light (blacking out a tank) will
kill off the algae (you have to do a massive water change
immediately after opening up the tank again) but unless you
resolve the imbalance, be it nutrient(s) or CO2, or light,
or simply not enough of a type of plant, the algae will
return, sometimes with a vengance.

Too much of "A" nutrient, too little, too many slow growing
plants and too few fast growing stem plants, etc. all
effects the tank as a whole.

I suggest you two might slow down, review what you have
done and think about what you might want to do, and then
do one thing and watch for results over a 1 to a 3 month
period.

Then, just when you have things balanced out and working
great... the bulbs have aged, and are radiating at a
different frequency (temperature K) and algae starts again.

It's fun, and a wonderful learning experiance but you gotta
go slowly.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Cutting off the light (blacking out a tank) will kill the algae...but unless you resolve the imbalance, be it nutrient(s) or CO2, or light,or simply not enough of a type of plant, the algae will
return, sometimes with a vengance.
You make some valid points. I agree with the above statement, but I believe the tank is better equipped now to deal with algae than it was from the startup. The tank has a much more mature plant mass and biofilter. Plus the lighting has been reduced.

My Scapes

Hi, i havent read all the posts on this so im not sure what has been said, but to fix the algae problem This is what i would do

For two weeks;

Cut down on the lighting (not a shortened period, pull out a bulb or 2)

Reduce or turn off the Co2

Stop adding artificial nutrients

Get a bristlenose or two

Make sure water is flowing evenly around tank

Then after the two weeks gradually increase the lights and Co2, find a good balance, once established you dont need alot of Co2 and the light period could probably only be 8-10hrs. Also dont run the Co2 at night only have it going with the lights.

Frank,

Thank you so much for your wise comments. I guess it show that I am &#8220;in the business&#8221; for only such a short time . I haven&#8217;t had a chance to log on since I last posted so I haven&#8217;t seen your entry until this morning, but guess what I did last night? I took a seat on the couch which is about 2 yards away from the tank. From there the tank looks quite nice. I in particular enjoyed watching the older fry swim up to the surface to grab some food. There must be about 10 of them that will join the school of adults rather sooner than later.

I also got your hint that a tank is a work in progress which is never completed. I agree, and I guess that&#8217;s what makes it so attractive. I think I once mentioned that I enjoy the road to success at least as much as the success itself. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.


jakieblak,

Thank you for your suggestions as well, sounds overall like a good plan. The problem here is that it would contradict the approach of the setup of this tank in particular and that various steps that you mention have been already considered/done. In detail:

- Cut down on the lighting --- The tank has 4 96W bulbs (details in profile) of which 2 are currently on for only 3 hours. So I guess this point has been implemented.
- Reduce or turn off the Co2 --- Is contradictive to other advice given here and to information received from the internet. Also interferes with the setup approach.
- Stop adding artificial nutrients --- This is the main problem. I follow a principal called Estimative Index established by our dear member Tom Barr. Here, overdosing is the key to success. If I would cut out the ferts and combine this with turning off the CO2 I would be back to a low tech tank. I know that this approach would most likely work, I have done that with my smaller tanks, but I decided upon a new challenge.
- Get a bristlenose or two --- Too much digging . I am eagerly waiting until my LFS gets some real Siamese Algae Eaters and then I will add one of these.
- Make sure water is flowing evenly around tank --- Is done already (but hasn&#8217;t been the case initially).

I have no doubt that your approach works, it just happens to be a different style of &#8220;tanking&#8221; than the one I have in mind. But maybe my lack of experience shows here as well as I might miss the point when enough tinkering is enough.

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

oh gosh...my head spinned after reading this long log....but its a joy to see the progress (the effort given despite tons of problems)


Last edited by tankie at 01-Nov-2005 14:28

Gang,

Guess what I got today?



Here are some hints:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And another hint:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Duckweed?

ETA: Sorry, didn't see the second pic. Rasbora Hengeli?

ETA2: OK now that I see the last pic, you're making this a rasbora-only tank, aren't you?

Last edited by upikabu at 01-Nov-2005 20:15

Last edited by upikabu at 01-Nov-2005 20:16

-P

And a last hint:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

upikabu

Noooo, way off you silly man

Ingo


EDIT: Even after your ETA2 you are way off

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 01-Nov-2005 20:18

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK last guess: more Espei or growth hormone for your Espei fry?

Excuse: I can't think on an empty stomach...it's lunchtime!


-P

Good guess, but no

One more hint then: The Espei are only a tool, could have been anything else in the tank as well.

BTW, the fry in the second pic is about 7mm long.

Answer will follow tomorrow

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

O.K. Little_Fish now our freaking me out. :%)

Obviously your showing pregant espei, so you got more fry and there are eggs everywhere.

My Scapes

Before I post the solution what my excitement was all about:

tankie &#8211; thank you so much for reading all the entries in this post, I hope I will not have to pay for your medical bill for the eye surgery that you need now .

It makes me happy that someone is still willing to read all of that stuff.

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now to the "quiz" of what I got,

Ok, I am not willing to give it away yet (and maybe it is a much bigger deal for me than for you guys), but here is another clue:

And tetratech, I am surprised that it took you so long to freaked out by me .

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

Top = 5 days ago, bottom = last night

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 02-Nov-2005 08:00[/font]

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Congrats! Your a grandfather /:'

My Scapes

Ok Ok,

Here is the solution:

No, I am not a grandfather yet (at least not with my Espei) and I am also not converting the tank to an Espei only paradise.

I guess I am the only one who thinks that the newer shot is much better than the older one, as they are the best I got (so far) of my Espei fry. And the reason why it is better: Well, I got a new camera .

I got all excited and nobody noticed the quality difference

Seriously, I hope that I will be able to take better pics of the tank, once I worked my way through the manual. It is a Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT.

Now, besides all the advice that you guys have given me so far on the tank I will need additional advice on how to take pictures .

Sorry to disappoint you if you may have thought there is more to it,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF you tricked us, everyone was focused on things in front of the camera, but it was the camera itself.

That's a good camera, SLR isn't it. You should be able to get some awesome shots with it. I have a Canon S2 IS. I bought it mainly for the 12x optical zoom and image stablizer.

My Scapes

Ach so...die Kamera!
I don't feel so bad now.

That third pic *is* really nice. I still remember the first (blurry) pic you posted of your 29g(?) way back when - definitely a big improvement.
Now you'll be able to actually show us real pics of all the algae you've been complaining about (if they really do exist).

Have fun with the new toy!


Last edited by upikabu at 02-Nov-2005 18:08

-P

This Log is really nuts. You guys are a blast.... I think I might have to turn my planted 40 gallon into a log. Although I can't spend a bunch of cash on the thing like I would like to. Lets just say I did some math and the numbers are not all that great.......poor college kid with fish problems = issues.....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech &#8211; No I didn&#8217;t trick you, I said that the fish are only a tool and that it could have been anything in the tank. SLR &#8211; right.

upikabu &#8211; Good German there, not even a spelling error. Yeah, I also remember my very first picture posted here of my 29G. It was a scan of a &#8220;real&#8221; picture. The good old days.

Wingsdlc &#8211; I hope you mean nuts as in great . Thanks man, I appreciate it, make sure you see tetratech&#8217;s log as well as it is as least a entertaining as this one (same players involved) . And certainly should you create a log, but you better have a digital camera, scanning prints is no fun (and not good quality either).

And to upikabu&#8217;s stab () regarding my imaginary algae, here are some pics (still have to work on the camera settings though):

The lovely Xmas Moss

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Dwarf Sag

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Anubias with healthy bubbling algae attached

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey LF, congrats on the camera

Im a KM man myself, but an SLR is def the way to go. Take some time away from throwing all that cash at your tanks.... and start throwing it at a lens for your camera! Try an single focal length macro lens, like a 50mm/ 2.8 or a 90mm/2.8. As nice as the camera is, take a few shots with a lens like that and it'll blow you away

I guess I'm a little late to talk about the algae issue, but all I can say is, it'll go away soon enough. Frank is absolutely right. I had an identical algae issue to what it looks like you have right now and it took me probably 2 months or so to get it to go away for good. (I actually used the Flourish Excel method it's the planted tank equivilant of a magic potion, but I'm not going to argue with results) Bottom line is, patience is key.

---

Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

It is never too late to talk about my algae issues .

But tell me more about your Excel method. Did you have fry in the tank at that time? If not, any idea if it might be harmful?

And with regards to the camera, man I feel like a beginner yet again. I guess that&#8217;s the story of our lives, once you think you know something you move on to something else and start as a beginner yet again. I have a lens that I think goes from 50 to 108 (or something), is that not the same as the 50 macro lens? I know it&#8217;s a little off topic, but future readers will appreciate the better pictures. I quickly reviewed some macro lenses online, they run anywhere from $300 to $2,000.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It is never too late to talk about my algae issues

That's a good thing, because there's nothin' I love talking about more than algae...

But first, the camera lenses. When it comes to good lenses, you need not buy them new. There's a website www.keh.com that sells lots of used equipment for all brands of cameras. The lens you have is fine, but as with all zoom lenses, it uses a lot of glass and different elements to create, and the more glass, usually the less sharp the resulting image. Manufacturers get around this by using different coatings etc. on certain lens elements and using superior glass in different lenses, but as you can guess, this results in a much higher price (into the $1000s). The point is, with zooms, you get what you pay for.

With fixed focal length lenses there's less glass and so generally less distortion which results in sharper images. Fixed focal length lenses are also easier and less expensive to make with wider apertures, which means they can let in more light, meaning you can use faster shutter speeds and use flash less often. Images will also appear brighter in the viewfinder, making it easier to focus manually. If you're ambitious look into a used 50mm macro lens or a 90 or 100mm macro lens. Either one should cost more than $300. As a matter of fact, Tamron makes a great 90mm macro that grades out very very well. If you don't think you're up for that yet, I would check out a 50mm/1.8 lens. very basic and very cheap, probably 70-80 bucks... but it provides much more bang for the buck IMO than a kit zoom lens.

As you can tell, I'm a huge fan I've shot thousands of film pics with nothing but a 24mm lens, a 50mm lens and later on a 90mm macro.

Woah, sorry for the tangent. Re: the algae. There really wasn't too much to it. I just dosed the Excel according to the bottle - every day or every other day, whatever it says - and do water changes as scheduled. As you go along remove as much as you can manually - remove whatever leaves it's on, pick it out of the gravel etc. (yes, in my outbreak it was growing out of the gravel... absolutely horrible) Sadly that'll mean removing a lot of your leaves , even the anubias, but the idea is to get them to grow back healthy and algae free. I think it took 2 weeks or so for it to start to disappear, gone within 3 weeks, if I remember correctly.

As for the fry, I didn't have any in the tank at the time, but I don't know why it'd be harmful to them. If you're nervous, dose every other day as opposed to every day. The way I saw it at the time, and the way I still see it is that it can't hurt to try.

---

Back in the saddle!

OK Ingo if were living closer to you i'd make a point of coming over and beating on you, or at least harassing youall that guessing work to figure out what you got that was new, and it was a camera? Drive what is left of my brain out of it's senses:%)

Anyways I noticed a little something in the background of one of your pics that wasn't too blurryshall we play a guessing game here? I think it's only fair

While you sit and think or wander back and look i promise i won't take 15 pages to reveal my answer

I've got a new tank as welli actually won the raffle at the last HAS fish auction. nothing fancy but a nice little cubish 24 gallon Odyssea/Jebo set up with some pretty decent lightingthough i've been told it isn't quite the right lights i need anyways would ya'll tell me if this is what i think ya'll have referred to as "pearling"? there is not filtration on the tank right now, no CO2, just the lighting (2-65 watt 50/50 bulbs)

So is this pearling? thanks, heidi




houston attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

I swear I have no other idea why there would be those bubbles on the plants unless it is "pearling" and that the plants are happy

no to reveal what I happen to have noticed

back in the pick that showed the xmas moss on the rocks, i saw this

I know I know I get excited and happy over too little of things sometimesi apologize, heck something has to keep my spirits up Now the thread is returned

heidi



houston attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

looks like pearling to me heidi.

NowherMan6 &#8211;

Thank you so much for your detailed explanation on camera lenses, I for sure will start my research today. There are 2 events coming up (Bday and Xmas) and I might be able to squeeze out a lense present.
The algae is getting worse so I started the Excel treatment (as recommended by you and tetratech) last night. An interesting fact is that the instructions on the 250ml bottle are the same than on the 2L bottle, meaning one cap for 10G (it also says 5ml) but the cap of the 2L bottle is multiple times the size of the small one . Glad I have both so I didn&#8217;t dose like a madman.
Thanks for both suggestions (Excel and lens).

Heidi &#8211;

Haven&#8217;t seen you in my thread for a while . Yes, definitely your fern ( ? ) is pearling. Did you take the picture shortly after you made a water change? Sometimes the CO2 in the tab water is enough to cause pearling; for sure in my tank it is more intense at the time of a water change.
And yes, you found another fry in the picture . But I have to be honest with you &#8211; these days it is hard to take a picture of my tank (that is not a super zoom) without getting any fry in the frame. They are all over the tank. The older ones form now lose groups towards the surface and yesterday I counted over 20 of just that age group. The younger ones are mostly close to the bottom or near plants and usually by themselves. That makes it harder to count them. Oh bliss of reproduction .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a lesson in &#8220;Fools Ordering Online&#8221;

When considering the amount of food to purchase, try not to envision a Hamburger when comparing weight (6.8 oz / 193g). This will last for what, like a year .

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

How many fry are in my tank you ask? Well, in just this small area I counted 12.

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And just for the fun of it, the whole tank. Tomorrow is water change day, I guess I will have to do quite some pruning (for size and algae reasons).

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:


Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 04-Nov-2005 18:58[/font]

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

HOLY COW your tank is beginning to look like a jungle How awesome I guess you win, now you definately have pictures of the fry

As for the water in the tank, nope that was like 3 days I believe into the setup, so I don't think it was the water change, and as of this morning 6 days after setup there is still just as much "pearling" as on the day I took the picture And it is Java Fern you see the pearling on though there is some Anubias (sp?) in the background

Now for the reason of not being by latelyit's been hectic and insane at work:#(seems absolutely nonstop, and I really haven't spent a lot of time on the forums like I would rather be doing, but work does come before funAt least the weekend is hereand the holidays are fast approaching, not that I really care one way or another, but heck I'll be able to be online a lot more I hope

heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

i popped in to see if there was anything newbut i suppose the jungle of a tank has swallowed ingo oh well, i'll wait till laters

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Week 6 Update (sorry I let the audience wait last night )

I spend another 5 hours yesterday &#8220;cleaning up&#8221; the tank and performing a major trimming. I hope I didn&#8217;t cut out too much.

Algae has manifested itself on the Glosso and I will have to try to defeat it without cutting it off the plants as this seems to be almost impossible. I saw for the first time some cupper red algae on the Xmas Moss, I think to remember that someone said this is the stage before it dies. Or maybe it is just a new type of algae in my collection .

I treat the tank since 2 days with 50ml Flourish Excel daily and I will keep on doing this for at least another week to see if it has any positive effect. The only reason I would stop is if I see a fish belly up. BTW fish, even when making a careful estimate I can say that there are at least 50 fry of all ages (well, maybe up to 5.5 weeks) of Espei in the tank. Soon it will be pretty crowded .

Instead of showing a summary over multiple weeks I will restrict the full tank pictures to before and after water change / trimming.

I also show a picture of an Espei, just for the fun of it. I posted the same picture in my new [link=Photo Booth thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Photo%20Booth/65976.html?200511052346" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] as well. There I will show pictures of fish from all my tanks. Go there, it is worthwhile .

So, here is the tank before cleaning

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here it is after

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Espei

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A close-up of the Rock Group, after a good cleaning the Xmas Moss always looks very nice, but just 2 days later it is a mess again ]:|

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

Also, see the 2 Espei fry above the rocks

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 06-Nov-2005 06:41[/font]

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

50ml Flourish Excel daily
That's 5 times the recommended dose, so I'd be careful going straight to that. After the initial dose of after a major WC the 50ml is good, but after that the normal dose for your size tank is 10-12ml for normal use, but your using it as an algacide, so maybe go 2 times normal and move up gradually from there.

BTW the tank looks really nice. Is that rotala growing between the rocks. IMO you need to get that bigger an taller.

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Nov-2005 07:13

My Scapes

tetratech,

You are right, maybe I should reduce the subsequent dosings. So far I don't think I have done any damage as the first dose was the initial one and the second followed after a 50% water change.

So I will reduce to 20ml.

Thanks again,

Ingo

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see your edit
Yes, that is Rotala Macrandra at the back of the rocks. I am not sure yet if I like it there, I think it takes away from the depth vision of the group.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 06-Nov-2005 07:17

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey LF nice pics with the new camera....that shot of the espei is . Lots of new growth, which is great. It's only a matter of time before you see the last bit of algae get trimmed away. Good job!

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty,

I think I noticed quite a difference when the lights went on in the tank today.

The whole tank seems to be much clearer. The algae in the moss has become bright red, I am almost certain that it is dying. The same phenomenon has started now in other areas of the tank as well.

The Moss

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tank again, I don&#8217;t know if you can see a difference (all small spots are actually fry and not dirt)

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF, wow it looks much better, think it's the Excel. From a scaping point of view it looks better now that you removed the tall plants that were right next to rock valley.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech,

I know that I still have miles to go until one can really speak about Aquascape, now it is more of a coincidal positive arrangement .

I also believe it is the Excel that causes this, I wonder what will happen once I stop it.

THIS IS THE 400th POST IN THIS THREAD

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

2. Many people have had success using Flourish Excel for many algae types. You could double dose this and see what happens.

Just remember who recommended excel, even if it's a tease of what you tank will be like without algae
No only kidding, keep the excel going and you can also slowly minimize dosage until you reach a critical level.
If the algae really does go away, you tank might be better equipped to handle it now than when the algae first got hold. I have removed all willow branches and floating cuttings from my tank and it seem very stable right now.


400 Posts. I guess your more popular than me
What's the record?

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Nov-2005 13:56

My Scapes

tetratech,

I remember very well who was the first to recommend the Excel method

And I remember who was the first one to recommend cutting out the ferts

And no, I am not more popular, you just do the math wrong:

402 posts at 125G = 3.216 Posts per Gallon
297 posts at 72G = 4.125 Posts per Gallon

So per gallon I cannot reach your popularity by a long shot .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

402 posts at 125G = 3.216 Posts per Gallon


When you say "cut" do you mean, reduce. Well it would be in your thread somewhere. I really have been dosing my tank on a very minimal level without a problem. I've come to realize that the algae is feeding off things so small you can't measure it with any test kit and the plants aren't that far above them. The rest is just luxury that sets in the water column. If the light is there the algae will grow just from the tap waste.

My Scapes

Well Ingo the tank is looking great thanks for letting us know the spots are not dirt, rather fryand to think i was fixing to start cleaning the computer screen}

So I have a question for youmaybe i've read it and forgotten it, my brain is getting older and wearier these days, but what is this, in the background on the glass? I don't remember you adding a pleco of sortsor did i miss that



houston attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

looks like an otocinclus to me heidi. One with a very full tummy.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 06-Nov-2005 16:29

it's from the picture belowbut really turned out fairly well after being blown up 300%

Otherwise it is looking really nice the tank

I seriously need to start a log of my 24 gallonI know it won't be nearly as much fun or interest as this one has been, but it would be nice to get ya'll's feed back, though I absolutely refuse right now to do CO2 on that tanknot yet anyways...I'll just keep the lighting that i have

heidi

houston attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Heidi,

I also vote Oto and I feel your pain about wanting to start a log but feeling like you can't hang with these big dowgs!

Also, I am glad the Excel did it for you. I used to use the stuff all the time until I went broke.........

It happens when you decide to get married......not married yet but I will be in may. Lets just say that marrage and college should be very carefuly mixed with a fish problem.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Heck I might just start one to irritate the "Little_Fish" and any reason is a good reason to post about a tank right Well, definately gotta take more pics of the tank if I decide to start a log of the tankand there is no time like the presenthml

EDIT: You are definately right, marriage, college, and fish keeping should be carefully mixed otherwise you have no funding for anything Thus, no college, no spouse, only fishkeeping, and i'm still with no fundingit all goes to the fish and the job:%)

Last edited by houston at 06-Nov-2005 16:48

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Yup, Megil is right, it is an Oto

And Heidi, there is no requirement at FP that you would have to have CO2 to write a log . Just go to the aquascaping forum and look at my 20G and 29G log (although it is not listed in the last 14 days option).

And tetratech, proudly I say that I have not budged and followed the EI from beginning to today .

Wingsdlc &#8211; does your fianc&#233;e like fish? And don&#8217;t worry about logs and big dowgs, I have no idea what I am doing .

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

Also, the fact that I list my fish in my profile makes it easier to guess what fish might be in a picture.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 06-Nov-2005 16:55[/font]

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LIttle_Fish,

She likes fish. Not quite like I like fish but she seems to like them. Normaly the bigger the better the fish is for her. I guess that means I can build my super tank and breed some big new worlds someday.

This weekend she actualy suprized me with some fish information. I guess she really does love me.

For our wedding reception I though out a random idea of putting fish on all the tables. Something like bettas in small vases. She actual thought it would be neat. Now the trick is to see if we can get them for super cheap somewhere and figure out what to do with them after wards because I don't want 30 some bettas!

P.S. Think I could pull off a log for my planted 40 gallon? Should I make this a log?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingsdlc,

I don&#8217;t know about this Betta idea, sounds like you either have to take all of them or trust your guests to create a proper environment for them if they should keep them. Scary.

Can you pull of a log? Sure you can, everybody can. A log does not have to begin at a setup of a completely new tank. I think I would not use your existing thread as a log as it has already a life on its own, if you know what I mean. I would say you should find a point in time where there is more to do then just moving things from left to right. How about a major rescape .

And I would suggest that you either link your pictures directly into the thread (so people don&#8217;t have to click on a link to see some shots) or, even better , you become a premie and attach your images to your posts. I see various older logs that originally had embedded images from some photo collection sites, but once you remove the image from there you have a dead link here.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Little_Fish,

That was the major problem with the Betta's was what kind of home they might be going to.

As for the log.....I will probably wait until I get some sweet cash flow and time play with stuff. I need to steel my friends camera again and take some more picters. I have moved stuff around a bit, put up a background, and started putting moss on the DW. I really want to get some low growing plants but I haven't found what I wanted yet. Plus I am poor...

Thanks for your help!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Tonight it clearly feels as if a new season in my tank&#8217;s development is starting.



Almost all the algae is retreating and the Espei fry is starting to swim in formation. But as usual, all good things have a bad side &#8211; what are the Otos and the fry going to eat when all the algae is gone? We will see&#8230;

Within 3 days of adding Flourish Excel the tank becomes a delight. based on tetratech&#8217;s advice I reduced subsequent dosing to 20ppm.

Here is a not so good shot of the Espei fry in school formation right below the surface (I think there are 11 in this pic)

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And, just in time for a nice clean tank, a new blossom on one of my Anubias Barteri

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sounds like a good time to kick back grab a beer and really enjoy your tank. Then you can get to the scaping phase, but I would enjoy watching the algae shrivel up and die a horrible death.

BTW - Where in the word is Bensaf ]:|

My Scapes

DIE ALGAE, DIE

Yeah, that sounds good &#8211; sitting back and enjoying the view. But I think I am a worrier by nature. It keeps my brain busy to think about all the awful things that can happen now.

As I said earlier, I wonder what the fry and the Otos will eat. On the other hand, I certainly have enough fry that is large enough to eat my small flakes and maybe it is only right that the population growth in the tank is stopped.

The good thing about having fry is that they grow slowly and as such increase the tanks bio load gradually and beneficial bacteria are getting enough time to increase in numbers. I think I will wait a little before adding new fish to the tank, but the one I am keen on would be the Pearl Gouramy. I am not sure if its ph requirements are compatible with my tank, but as tetratech said in his thread &#8220;I will have to do more research before I go out and buy&#8221;.

Ingo

PS: I certainly hope Bensaf is only on a long vacation, we shall call the Jakarta police if he doesn&#8217;t show up soon.

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I wouldn't worry about the otos. If the algae disappears they will eat the algae wafers. When I drop when in they are all over it.

The fry can probably eat flake food. Just grind some it between your fingers. Even with excel doing it's magic, there will be plenty in their for them to eat.

I'm not big on gourmais, I thing Bensaf has quite a few.
I guess will give him another week, before we contact the authorities.


My Scapes

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I remember bensaf saying somewhere that since the end of ramadan was coming up, a lot more bars would be open the week after it ended, therefore he'd be spending more time...well... out enjoying the pub life

Like I said, that may have been a while ago, and I may also be nuts, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned somethign along those lines...

Also glad to see the excel method is working for you too

---

Back in the saddle!

Yeah,

Bensaf mentioned the bars. I hope he didn&#8217;t get shanghaied while being drunk and is now sitting on some pirate ship setting the sails .

Why no Gouramies, tetratech? I think the pearl look similar to Keyhole Cichlids (to some degree).

Yeah NowherMan6, I saw the effects of the Excel within 2 days only, just amazing.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I guess gourmais are just not my thing. I think with the long fins in the front they are somewhat too "how should I put it" delicate looking.



My Scapes

Actually I did kinda like this gourmai



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

That's a Sphaerichthys osphromenoides, aka Chocolate Gourami, as listed in our profiles (although almost all the pictures seem to be wrong).

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 08-Nov-2005 13:03

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BTW - Where in the word is Bensaf

The beginning of last week was Idul Fitri, which is the biggest Muslim holiday (marks the end of Ramadhan) and starts the longest holiday period in Indonesia. Basically the whole country shuts down for 2 weeks and everyone either goes home to their family or goes on holiday. Sort of like Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays combined. My guess is Bensaf either went abroad or visited his wife's family in Kalimantan (Borneo). Hardly any bar would be open during this period as there would be no customer. I bet he'll be back next week.

Last edited by upikabu at 08-Nov-2005 18:19

-P

Yes, Ingo can countat least to 11that or I can't count eitherand that could be a possibility

Anyways would the Flourish (i think that is what you're using to get rid of algae) kill off the black algae that is starting up in my 2.5 tank at school? It's irritating the snot out of me, and with it being allergy season that is saying a lot

love the fry, but why not add a betta to the tank

*goes to hide* hml

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Houston you have a problem?

That Black stuff looks like BGA which really isn't an algae but a bacteria. You can do a blackout or use Erethromycin(EM)tablets. I bet that tank is near a window or something. BGA is caused by too much light and not enough nitrate.



My Scapes

Upikabu &#8211; Thanks for this update, I guess we will give him one more week, but that&#8217;s it

Heidi &#8211; I hope you have a hankie ready . As tetratech says, if it is BGA (Blue-Green Algae) then the best treatment would be some form of Erethromycin, I personally used the Maracin I tablets in my tanks. If it is BBA (Black-Beard-Algae) then the Excel should help.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh,

I forgot to mention an observation I made during the last couple of days, maybe the Excel recommenders would be able to comment.

Ever since I started to add the Excel the bubbling of my plants has been reduced to almost nothing. The bubble count is the same for at least the last 2 weeks.

Do you have a similar experience?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Same for me. I started using it about the same time as you and what I took for "pearling" has stopped. I am just assuming that what I had was algae "boiling and bubbling." I have less algae now after several cleanings and the Excell but it hasn't totally stopped growing on the leaf edges and such.

Great log BTW.

jan

Ok the tank isn't by a window, it has a black out from Friday at 5 pm to about 8 am on Monday every week...
The lights are only on from about 8 am to 5 pm each day...does that help anything? I'm also doing a 100% water change on the tank and cleaning everything every week
So what's the problem with this tank? Grrrrrr, i'm understanding what you were going through and still going through with that algae Ingo:%)

OK tomorrow I'll take pictures of the "yuck" and post in my own thread

Thanks for the help...now back to Little_Fish's thread

What do you mean we have no new pictures tonight? I was hoping for more pictures, ok i'm out of herenight night, Houston

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle