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Glosso carpet 14 days ago

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Glosso carpet now, growing in

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Tank really looks nice after the cleanup, but if the algae remains I think your really need to "shock" (blackout) it to finally be rid of it. Your tank conditions now are probably much better to deal with it, but the "seeds" for this were planted at startup. Everyone's hindsight is 20/20, but let's recap:

LF's Tank: High Light, Immature Plant Mass, No biofilter
RESULT: Many flavors of algae

TT'S Tank: Medium Light, Immature Plant Mass, Some biofilter/eco complete contains (Heterotrophic Bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants)
RESULT: Green Water

Bensaf's Tank: Medium Light, Mature Plant Mass, Heavy biofilter
RESULT: No Algae

Notice I didn't even mention ferts. Bottom line is algae with grow especially in strong light with very little waste. There is small levels of waste in tap water, enough to feed the algae if the light is strong enough. I'm still on the fence if the nutrients fueled their growth after the algae started to grow, but they don't need alot to get started, nothing detectable by you any way. The biofilter is hugh at the begining to eat the waste. Most highly respected aquarist use carbon and don't fert in the beginning. I don't believe cuttings are using the ferts from the getgo, they are using internal reserves.

Last edited by tetratech at 31-Oct-2005 07:19

Last edited by tetratech at 31-Oct-2005 07:28

My Scapes

LF,

Read this:
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel_faq.html

My Scapes

tetratech,

I assume you are referring to the first Q/A section where they talk about Excel being able to kill algae.

Sounds interesting, in particular when you add the statement of a later Q/A that you can use both CO2 and Excel together with added benefits (although they don’t say what that would be).

Maybe I should go ahead and dose Excel, glad I have a 2 liter bottle of it at home.

Thanks ,

Ingo

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Yes, the first Q/A.
I sent this to you because the response comes from Seachem itself, not just some board (although the board might be less bias, but at least seachem is going on record that this is an added benenfit of the product. The only thing is I've read that you need to overdose the product for it to really have an affect on algae, so you might even went to call the 800 number at Seachem and ask them. Also I don't know if overdosing will affect your espei fry more than a full grown fish.

My Scapes

Grrr, isn’t there one option that doesn’t make me worried about my fry ?

See, I even think that a 5 day dark period is dangerous to the fry as you don’t feed during this time. Espei are supposedly excellent hunters and if their bellies get empty, well that’s when they remember that they made all these lovely little babies.

I am tired, I guess I will just see how the tank looks tonight.

BTW, I lost another Oto. I mentioned earlier that I had one with a booboo from the get-go and it could have been him. I am not sure though as it didn’t look all that “fresh” anymore when I found him. And I only can count 5, although there should be 6.

Ingo

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I'm not saying it's a problem, I would call seachem. You could probably even discuss your algae problem with them. Although they'll probably try to convert you to seachem products for your ferts

One thing I have realized is you really have to be educated and have self control what fauna anf flora you put in your tank, becuase when if you adjust for one thing, it might affect something else. It's tough to maximize conditions for all things. I know this sounds mean, but you can't worry about all those fry. In nature you know how many of those fry grow up to be adult espeis?







My Scapes

Hi Guys,
This has been an interesting series of reading for that I
thank you. However... You guys are "ate up" with the
"impatience bug." You seem to want to have beautiful
tanks (which you do) but algae free (which you won't) and
immediately (which will never happen).

I seem to be on a "Patience" kick lately. Responding to
many posts. Chat with Ben. Back when he first started
here he posted with an algae problem and I gave him some
suggestions. They worked, but... took a while. Since then
he has had some stunningly beautiful tanks and all with
very very little algae.

You have to give yourself and your tanks time for something
to work. Cutting off the light (blacking out a tank) will
kill off the algae (you have to do a massive water change
immediately after opening up the tank again) but unless you
resolve the imbalance, be it nutrient(s) or CO2, or light,
or simply not enough of a type of plant, the algae will
return, sometimes with a vengance.

Too much of "A" nutrient, too little, too many slow growing
plants and too few fast growing stem plants, etc. all
effects the tank as a whole.

I suggest you two might slow down, review what you have
done and think about what you might want to do, and then
do one thing and watch for results over a 1 to a 3 month
period.

Then, just when you have things balanced out and working
great... the bulbs have aged, and are radiating at a
different frequency (temperature K) and algae starts again.

It's fun, and a wonderful learning experiance but you gotta
go slowly.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Cutting off the light (blacking out a tank) will kill the algae...but unless you resolve the imbalance, be it nutrient(s) or CO2, or light,or simply not enough of a type of plant, the algae will
return, sometimes with a vengance.
You make some valid points. I agree with the above statement, but I believe the tank is better equipped now to deal with algae than it was from the startup. The tank has a much more mature plant mass and biofilter. Plus the lighting has been reduced.

My Scapes

Hi, i havent read all the posts on this so im not sure what has been said, but to fix the algae problem This is what i would do

For two weeks;

Cut down on the lighting (not a shortened period, pull out a bulb or 2)

Reduce or turn off the Co2

Stop adding artificial nutrients

Get a bristlenose or two

Make sure water is flowing evenly around tank

Then after the two weeks gradually increase the lights and Co2, find a good balance, once established you dont need alot of Co2 and the light period could probably only be 8-10hrs. Also dont run the Co2 at night only have it going with the lights.

Frank,

Thank you so much for your wise comments. I guess it show that I am &#8220;in the business&#8221; for only such a short time . I haven&#8217;t had a chance to log on since I last posted so I haven&#8217;t seen your entry until this morning, but guess what I did last night? I took a seat on the couch which is about 2 yards away from the tank. From there the tank looks quite nice. I in particular enjoyed watching the older fry swim up to the surface to grab some food. There must be about 10 of them that will join the school of adults rather sooner than later.

I also got your hint that a tank is a work in progress which is never completed. I agree, and I guess that&#8217;s what makes it so attractive. I think I once mentioned that I enjoy the road to success at least as much as the success itself. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.


jakieblak,

Thank you for your suggestions as well, sounds overall like a good plan. The problem here is that it would contradict the approach of the setup of this tank in particular and that various steps that you mention have been already considered/done. In detail:

- Cut down on the lighting --- The tank has 4 96W bulbs (details in profile) of which 2 are currently on for only 3 hours. So I guess this point has been implemented.
- Reduce or turn off the Co2 --- Is contradictive to other advice given here and to information received from the internet. Also interferes with the setup approach.
- Stop adding artificial nutrients --- This is the main problem. I follow a principal called Estimative Index established by our dear member Tom Barr. Here, overdosing is the key to success. If I would cut out the ferts and combine this with turning off the CO2 I would be back to a low tech tank. I know that this approach would most likely work, I have done that with my smaller tanks, but I decided upon a new challenge.
- Get a bristlenose or two --- Too much digging . I am eagerly waiting until my LFS gets some real Siamese Algae Eaters and then I will add one of these.
- Make sure water is flowing evenly around tank --- Is done already (but hasn&#8217;t been the case initially).

I have no doubt that your approach works, it just happens to be a different style of &#8220;tanking&#8221; than the one I have in mind. But maybe my lack of experience shows here as well as I might miss the point when enough tinkering is enough.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

oh gosh...my head spinned after reading this long log....but its a joy to see the progress (the effort given despite tons of problems)


Last edited by tankie at 01-Nov-2005 14:28

Gang,

Guess what I got today?



Here are some hints:

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And another hint:

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Duckweed?

ETA: Sorry, didn't see the second pic. Rasbora Hengeli?

ETA2: OK now that I see the last pic, you're making this a rasbora-only tank, aren't you?

Last edited by upikabu at 01-Nov-2005 20:15

Last edited by upikabu at 01-Nov-2005 20:16

-P

And a last hint:

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upikabu

Noooo, way off you silly man

Ingo


EDIT: Even after your ETA2 you are way off

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 01-Nov-2005 20:18

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OK last guess: more Espei or growth hormone for your Espei fry?

Excuse: I can't think on an empty stomach...it's lunchtime!


-P

Good guess, but no

One more hint then: The Espei are only a tool, could have been anything else in the tank as well.

BTW, the fry in the second pic is about 7mm long.

Answer will follow tomorrow

Ingo

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O.K. Little_Fish now our freaking me out. :%)

Obviously your showing pregant espei, so you got more fry and there are eggs everywhere.

My Scapes

Before I post the solution what my excitement was all about:

tankie &#8211; thank you so much for reading all the entries in this post, I hope I will not have to pay for your medical bill for the eye surgery that you need now .

It makes me happy that someone is still willing to read all of that stuff.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Now to the "quiz" of what I got,

Ok, I am not willing to give it away yet (and maybe it is a much bigger deal for me than for you guys), but here is another clue:

And tetratech, I am surprised that it took you so long to freaked out by me .

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Top = 5 days ago, bottom = last night

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 02-Nov-2005 08:00[/font]

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Congrats! Your a grandfather /:'

My Scapes

Ok Ok,

Here is the solution:

No, I am not a grandfather yet (at least not with my Espei) and I am also not converting the tank to an Espei only paradise.

I guess I am the only one who thinks that the newer shot is much better than the older one, as they are the best I got (so far) of my Espei fry. And the reason why it is better: Well, I got a new camera .

I got all excited and nobody noticed the quality difference

Seriously, I hope that I will be able to take better pics of the tank, once I worked my way through the manual. It is a Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT.

Now, besides all the advice that you guys have given me so far on the tank I will need additional advice on how to take pictures .

Sorry to disappoint you if you may have thought there is more to it,

Ingo

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LF you tricked us, everyone was focused on things in front of the camera, but it was the camera itself.

That's a good camera, SLR isn't it. You should be able to get some awesome shots with it. I have a Canon S2 IS. I bought it mainly for the 12x optical zoom and image stablizer.

My Scapes

Ach so...die Kamera!
I don't feel so bad now.

That third pic *is* really nice. I still remember the first (blurry) pic you posted of your 29g(?) way back when - definitely a big improvement.
Now you'll be able to actually show us real pics of all the algae you've been complaining about (if they really do exist).

Have fun with the new toy!


Last edited by upikabu at 02-Nov-2005 18:08

-P

This Log is really nuts. You guys are a blast.... I think I might have to turn my planted 40 gallon into a log. Although I can't spend a bunch of cash on the thing like I would like to. Lets just say I did some math and the numbers are not all that great.......poor college kid with fish problems = issues.....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech &#8211; No I didn&#8217;t trick you, I said that the fish are only a tool and that it could have been anything in the tank. SLR &#8211; right.

upikabu &#8211; Good German there, not even a spelling error. Yeah, I also remember my very first picture posted here of my 29G. It was a scan of a &#8220;real&#8221; picture. The good old days.

Wingsdlc &#8211; I hope you mean nuts as in great . Thanks man, I appreciate it, make sure you see tetratech&#8217;s log as well as it is as least a entertaining as this one (same players involved) . And certainly should you create a log, but you better have a digital camera, scanning prints is no fun (and not good quality either).

And to upikabu&#8217;s stab () regarding my imaginary algae, here are some pics (still have to work on the camera settings though):

The lovely Xmas Moss

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Dwarf Sag

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Anubias with healthy bubbling algae attached

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Hey LF, congrats on the camera

Im a KM man myself, but an SLR is def the way to go. Take some time away from throwing all that cash at your tanks.... and start throwing it at a lens for your camera! Try an single focal length macro lens, like a 50mm/ 2.8 or a 90mm/2.8. As nice as the camera is, take a few shots with a lens like that and it'll blow you away

I guess I'm a little late to talk about the algae issue, but all I can say is, it'll go away soon enough. Frank is absolutely right. I had an identical algae issue to what it looks like you have right now and it took me probably 2 months or so to get it to go away for good. (I actually used the Flourish Excel method it's the planted tank equivilant of a magic potion, but I'm not going to argue with results) Bottom line is, patience is key.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

It is never too late to talk about my algae issues .

But tell me more about your Excel method. Did you have fry in the tank at that time? If not, any idea if it might be harmful?

And with regards to the camera, man I feel like a beginner yet again. I guess that&#8217;s the story of our lives, once you think you know something you move on to something else and start as a beginner yet again. I have a lens that I think goes from 50 to 108 (or something), is that not the same as the 50 macro lens? I know it&#8217;s a little off topic, but future readers will appreciate the better pictures. I quickly reviewed some macro lenses online, they run anywhere from $300 to $2,000.

Ingo

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It is never too late to talk about my algae issues

That's a good thing, because there's nothin' I love talking about more than algae...

But first, the camera lenses. When it comes to good lenses, you need not buy them new. There's a website www.keh.com that sells lots of used equipment for all brands of cameras. The lens you have is fine, but as with all zoom lenses, it uses a lot of glass and different elements to create, and the more glass, usually the less sharp the resulting image. Manufacturers get around this by using different coatings etc. on certain lens elements and using superior glass in different lenses, but as you can guess, this results in a much higher price (into the $1000s). The point is, with zooms, you get what you pay for.

With fixed focal length lenses there's less glass and so generally less distortion which results in sharper images. Fixed focal length lenses are also easier and less expensive to make with wider apertures, which means they can let in more light, meaning you can use faster shutter speeds and use flash less often. Images will also appear brighter in the viewfinder, making it easier to focus manually. If you're ambitious look into a used 50mm macro lens or a 90 or 100mm macro lens. Either one should cost more than $300. As a matter of fact, Tamron makes a great 90mm macro that grades out very very well. If you don't think you're up for that yet, I would check out a 50mm/1.8 lens. very basic and very cheap, probably 70-80 bucks... but it provides much more bang for the buck IMO than a kit zoom lens.

As you can tell, I'm a huge fan I've shot thousands of film pics with nothing but a 24mm lens, a 50mm lens and later on a 90mm macro.

Woah, sorry for the tangent. Re: the algae. There really wasn't too much to it. I just dosed the Excel according to the bottle - every day or every other day, whatever it says - and do water changes as scheduled. As you go along remove as much as you can manually - remove whatever leaves it's on, pick it out of the gravel etc. (yes, in my outbreak it was growing out of the gravel... absolutely horrible) Sadly that'll mean removing a lot of your leaves , even the anubias, but the idea is to get them to grow back healthy and algae free. I think it took 2 weeks or so for it to start to disappear, gone within 3 weeks, if I remember correctly.

As for the fry, I didn't have any in the tank at the time, but I don't know why it'd be harmful to them. If you're nervous, dose every other day as opposed to every day. The way I saw it at the time, and the way I still see it is that it can't hurt to try.

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Back in the saddle!

OK Ingo if were living closer to you i'd make a point of coming over and beating on you, or at least harassing youall that guessing work to figure out what you got that was new, and it was a camera? Drive what is left of my brain out of it's senses:%)

Anyways I noticed a little something in the background of one of your pics that wasn't too blurryshall we play a guessing game here? I think it's only fair

While you sit and think or wander back and look i promise i won't take 15 pages to reveal my answer

I've got a new tank as welli actually won the raffle at the last HAS fish auction. nothing fancy but a nice little cubish 24 gallon Odyssea/Jebo set up with some pretty decent lightingthough i've been told it isn't quite the right lights i need anyways would ya'll tell me if this is what i think ya'll have referred to as "pearling"? there is not filtration on the tank right now, no CO2, just the lighting (2-65 watt 50/50 bulbs)

So is this pearling? thanks, heidi




houston attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

I swear I have no other idea why there would be those bubbles on the plants unless it is "pearling" and that the plants are happy

no to reveal what I happen to have noticed

back in the pick that showed the xmas moss on the rocks, i saw this

I know I know I get excited and happy over too little of things sometimesi apologize, heck something has to keep my spirits up Now the thread is returned

heidi



houston attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

looks like pearling to me heidi.

NowherMan6 &#8211;

Thank you so much for your detailed explanation on camera lenses, I for sure will start my research today. There are 2 events coming up (Bday and Xmas) and I might be able to squeeze out a lense present.
The algae is getting worse so I started the Excel treatment (as recommended by you and tetratech) last night. An interesting fact is that the instructions on the 250ml bottle are the same than on the 2L bottle, meaning one cap for 10G (it also says 5ml) but the cap of the 2L bottle is multiple times the size of the small one . Glad I have both so I didn&#8217;t dose like a madman.
Thanks for both suggestions (Excel and lens).

Heidi &#8211;

Haven&#8217;t seen you in my thread for a while . Yes, definitely your fern ( ? ) is pearling. Did you take the picture shortly after you made a water change? Sometimes the CO2 in the tab water is enough to cause pearling; for sure in my tank it is more intense at the time of a water change.
And yes, you found another fry in the picture . But I have to be honest with you &#8211; these days it is hard to take a picture of my tank (that is not a super zoom) without getting any fry in the frame. They are all over the tank. The older ones form now lose groups towards the surface and yesterday I counted over 20 of just that age group. The younger ones are mostly close to the bottom or near plants and usually by themselves. That makes it harder to count them. Oh bliss of reproduction .

Ingo

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Here is a lesson in &#8220;Fools Ordering Online&#8221;

When considering the amount of food to purchase, try not to envision a Hamburger when comparing weight (6.8 oz / 193g). This will last for what, like a year .

Ingo

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How many fry are in my tank you ask? Well, in just this small area I counted 12.

Ingo

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And just for the fun of it, the whole tank. Tomorrow is water change day, I guess I will have to do quite some pruning (for size and algae reasons).

Ingo

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Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 04-Nov-2005 18:58[/font]

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HOLY COW your tank is beginning to look like a jungle How awesome I guess you win, now you definately have pictures of the fry

As for the water in the tank, nope that was like 3 days I believe into the setup, so I don't think it was the water change, and as of this morning 6 days after setup there is still just as much "pearling" as on the day I took the picture And it is Java Fern you see the pearling on though there is some Anubias (sp?) in the background

Now for the reason of not being by latelyit's been hectic and insane at work:#(seems absolutely nonstop, and I really haven't spent a lot of time on the forums like I would rather be doing, but work does come before funAt least the weekend is hereand the holidays are fast approaching, not that I really care one way or another, but heck I'll be able to be online a lot more I hope

heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

i popped in to see if there was anything newbut i suppose the jungle of a tank has swallowed ingo oh well, i'll wait till laters

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Week 6 Update (sorry I let the audience wait last night )

I spend another 5 hours yesterday &#8220;cleaning up&#8221; the tank and performing a major trimming. I hope I didn&#8217;t cut out too much.

Algae has manifested itself on the Glosso and I will have to try to defeat it without cutting it off the plants as this seems to be almost impossible. I saw for the first time some cupper red algae on the Xmas Moss, I think to remember that someone said this is the stage before it dies. Or maybe it is just a new type of algae in my collection .

I treat the tank since 2 days with 50ml Flourish Excel daily and I will keep on doing this for at least another week to see if it has any positive effect. The only reason I would stop is if I see a fish belly up. BTW fish, even when making a careful estimate I can say that there are at least 50 fry of all ages (well, maybe up to 5.5 weeks) of Espei in the tank. Soon it will be pretty crowded .

Instead of showing a summary over multiple weeks I will restrict the full tank pictures to before and after water change / trimming.

I also show a picture of an Espei, just for the fun of it. I posted the same picture in my new [link=Photo Booth thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Photo%20Booth/65976.html?200511052346" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] as well. There I will show pictures of fish from all my tanks. Go there, it is worthwhile .

So, here is the tank before cleaning

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Here it is after

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The Espei

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A close-up of the Rock Group, after a good cleaning the Xmas Moss always looks very nice, but just 2 days later it is a mess again ]:|

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Also, see the 2 Espei fry above the rocks

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 06-Nov-2005 06:41[/font]

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50ml Flourish Excel daily
That's 5 times the recommended dose, so I'd be careful going straight to that. After the initial dose of after a major WC the 50ml is good, but after that the normal dose for your size tank is 10-12ml for normal use, but your using it as an algacide, so maybe go 2 times normal and move up gradually from there.

BTW the tank looks really nice. Is that rotala growing between the rocks. IMO you need to get that bigger an taller.

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Nov-2005 07:13

My Scapes

tetratech,

You are right, maybe I should reduce the subsequent dosings. So far I don't think I have done any damage as the first dose was the initial one and the second followed after a 50% water change.

So I will reduce to 20ml.

Thanks again,

Ingo

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see your edit
Yes, that is Rotala Macrandra at the back of the rocks. I am not sure yet if I like it there, I think it takes away from the depth vision of the group.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 06-Nov-2005 07:17

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Hey LF nice pics with the new camera....that shot of the espei is . Lots of new growth, which is great. It's only a matter of time before you see the last bit of algae get trimmed away. Good job!

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty,

I think I noticed quite a difference when the lights went on in the tank today.

The whole tank seems to be much clearer. The algae in the moss has become bright red, I am almost certain that it is dying. The same phenomenon has started now in other areas of the tank as well.

The Moss

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The tank again, I don&#8217;t know if you can see a difference (all small spots are actually fry and not dirt)

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LF, wow it looks much better, think it's the Excel. From a scaping point of view it looks better now that you removed the tall plants that were right next to rock valley.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech,

I know that I still have miles to go until one can really speak about Aquascape, now it is more of a coincidal positive arrangement .

I also believe it is the Excel that causes this, I wonder what will happen once I stop it.

THIS IS THE 400th POST IN THIS THREAD

Ingo

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2. Many people have had success using Flourish Excel for many algae types. You could double dose this and see what happens.

Just remember who recommended excel, even if it's a tease of what you tank will be like without algae
No only kidding, keep the excel going and you can also slowly minimize dosage until you reach a critical level.
If the algae really does go away, you tank might be better equipped to handle it now than when the algae first got hold. I have removed all willow branches and floating cuttings from my tank and it seem very stable right now.


400 Posts. I guess your more popular than me
What's the record?

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Nov-2005 13:56

My Scapes

tetratech,

I remember very well who was the first to recommend the Excel method

And I remember who was the first one to recommend cutting out the ferts

And no, I am not more popular, you just do the math wrong:

402 posts at 125G = 3.216 Posts per Gallon
297 posts at 72G = 4.125 Posts per Gallon

So per gallon I cannot reach your popularity by a long shot .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

402 posts at 125G = 3.216 Posts per Gallon


When you say "cut" do you mean, reduce. Well it would be in your thread somewhere. I really have been dosing my tank on a very minimal level without a problem. I've come to realize that the algae is feeding off things so small you can't measure it with any test kit and the plants aren't that far above them. The rest is just luxury that sets in the water column. If the light is there the algae will grow just from the tap waste.

My Scapes

Well Ingo the tank is looking great thanks for letting us know the spots are not dirt, rather fryand to think i was fixing to start cleaning the computer screen}

So I have a question for youmaybe i've read it and forgotten it, my brain is getting older and wearier these days, but what is this, in the background on the glass? I don't remember you adding a pleco of sortsor did i miss that



houston attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

looks like an otocinclus to me heidi. One with a very full tummy.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 06-Nov-2005 16:29

it's from the picture belowbut really turned out fairly well after being blown up 300%

Otherwise it is looking really nice the tank

I seriously need to start a log of my 24 gallonI know it won't be nearly as much fun or interest as this one has been, but it would be nice to get ya'll's feed back, though I absolutely refuse right now to do CO2 on that tanknot yet anyways...I'll just keep the lighting that i have

heidi

houston attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Heidi,

I also vote Oto and I feel your pain about wanting to start a log but feeling like you can't hang with these big dowgs!

Also, I am glad the Excel did it for you. I used to use the stuff all the time until I went broke.........

It happens when you decide to get married......not married yet but I will be in may. Lets just say that marrage and college should be very carefuly mixed with a fish problem.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Heck I might just start one to irritate the "Little_Fish" and any reason is a good reason to post about a tank right Well, definately gotta take more pics of the tank if I decide to start a log of the tankand there is no time like the presenthml

EDIT: You are definately right, marriage, college, and fish keeping should be carefully mixed otherwise you have no funding for anything Thus, no college, no spouse, only fishkeeping, and i'm still with no fundingit all goes to the fish and the job:%)

Last edited by houston at 06-Nov-2005 16:48

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Yup, Megil is right, it is an Oto

And Heidi, there is no requirement at FP that you would have to have CO2 to write a log . Just go to the aquascaping forum and look at my 20G and 29G log (although it is not listed in the last 14 days option).

And tetratech, proudly I say that I have not budged and followed the EI from beginning to today .

Wingsdlc &#8211; does your fianc&#233;e like fish? And don&#8217;t worry about logs and big dowgs, I have no idea what I am doing .

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

Also, the fact that I list my fish in my profile makes it easier to guess what fish might be in a picture.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 06-Nov-2005 16:55[/font]

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LIttle_Fish,

She likes fish. Not quite like I like fish but she seems to like them. Normaly the bigger the better the fish is for her. I guess that means I can build my super tank and breed some big new worlds someday.

This weekend she actualy suprized me with some fish information. I guess she really does love me.

For our wedding reception I though out a random idea of putting fish on all the tables. Something like bettas in small vases. She actual thought it would be neat. Now the trick is to see if we can get them for super cheap somewhere and figure out what to do with them after wards because I don't want 30 some bettas!

P.S. Think I could pull off a log for my planted 40 gallon? Should I make this a log?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingsdlc,

I don&#8217;t know about this Betta idea, sounds like you either have to take all of them or trust your guests to create a proper environment for them if they should keep them. Scary.

Can you pull of a log? Sure you can, everybody can. A log does not have to begin at a setup of a completely new tank. I think I would not use your existing thread as a log as it has already a life on its own, if you know what I mean. I would say you should find a point in time where there is more to do then just moving things from left to right. How about a major rescape .

And I would suggest that you either link your pictures directly into the thread (so people don&#8217;t have to click on a link to see some shots) or, even better , you become a premie and attach your images to your posts. I see various older logs that originally had embedded images from some photo collection sites, but once you remove the image from there you have a dead link here.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Little_Fish,

That was the major problem with the Betta's was what kind of home they might be going to.

As for the log.....I will probably wait until I get some sweet cash flow and time play with stuff. I need to steel my friends camera again and take some more picters. I have moved stuff around a bit, put up a background, and started putting moss on the DW. I really want to get some low growing plants but I haven't found what I wanted yet. Plus I am poor...

Thanks for your help!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Tonight it clearly feels as if a new season in my tank&#8217;s development is starting.



Almost all the algae is retreating and the Espei fry is starting to swim in formation. But as usual, all good things have a bad side &#8211; what are the Otos and the fry going to eat when all the algae is gone? We will see&#8230;

Within 3 days of adding Flourish Excel the tank becomes a delight. based on tetratech&#8217;s advice I reduced subsequent dosing to 20ppm.

Here is a not so good shot of the Espei fry in school formation right below the surface (I think there are 11 in this pic)

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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And, just in time for a nice clean tank, a new blossom on one of my Anubias Barteri

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Sounds like a good time to kick back grab a beer and really enjoy your tank. Then you can get to the scaping phase, but I would enjoy watching the algae shrivel up and die a horrible death.

BTW - Where in the word is Bensaf ]:|

My Scapes

DIE ALGAE, DIE

Yeah, that sounds good &#8211; sitting back and enjoying the view. But I think I am a worrier by nature. It keeps my brain busy to think about all the awful things that can happen now.

As I said earlier, I wonder what the fry and the Otos will eat. On the other hand, I certainly have enough fry that is large enough to eat my small flakes and maybe it is only right that the population growth in the tank is stopped.

The good thing about having fry is that they grow slowly and as such increase the tanks bio load gradually and beneficial bacteria are getting enough time to increase in numbers. I think I will wait a little before adding new fish to the tank, but the one I am keen on would be the Pearl Gouramy. I am not sure if its ph requirements are compatible with my tank, but as tetratech said in his thread &#8220;I will have to do more research before I go out and buy&#8221;.

Ingo

PS: I certainly hope Bensaf is only on a long vacation, we shall call the Jakarta police if he doesn&#8217;t show up soon.

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I wouldn't worry about the otos. If the algae disappears they will eat the algae wafers. When I drop when in they are all over it.

The fry can probably eat flake food. Just grind some it between your fingers. Even with excel doing it's magic, there will be plenty in their for them to eat.

I'm not big on gourmais, I thing Bensaf has quite a few.
I guess will give him another week, before we contact the authorities.


My Scapes

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I remember bensaf saying somewhere that since the end of ramadan was coming up, a lot more bars would be open the week after it ended, therefore he'd be spending more time...well... out enjoying the pub life

Like I said, that may have been a while ago, and I may also be nuts, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned somethign along those lines...

Also glad to see the excel method is working for you too

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Back in the saddle!

Yeah,

Bensaf mentioned the bars. I hope he didn&#8217;t get shanghaied while being drunk and is now sitting on some pirate ship setting the sails .

Why no Gouramies, tetratech? I think the pearl look similar to Keyhole Cichlids (to some degree).

Yeah NowherMan6, I saw the effects of the Excel within 2 days only, just amazing.

Ingo

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I guess gourmais are just not my thing. I think with the long fins in the front they are somewhat too "how should I put it" delicate looking.



My Scapes

Actually I did kinda like this gourmai



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

That's a Sphaerichthys osphromenoides, aka Chocolate Gourami, as listed in our profiles (although almost all the pictures seem to be wrong).

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 08-Nov-2005 13:03

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BTW - Where in the word is Bensaf

The beginning of last week was Idul Fitri, which is the biggest Muslim holiday (marks the end of Ramadhan) and starts the longest holiday period in Indonesia. Basically the whole country shuts down for 2 weeks and everyone either goes home to their family or goes on holiday. Sort of like Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays combined. My guess is Bensaf either went abroad or visited his wife's family in Kalimantan (Borneo). Hardly any bar would be open during this period as there would be no customer. I bet he'll be back next week.

Last edited by upikabu at 08-Nov-2005 18:19

-P

Yes, Ingo can countat least to 11that or I can't count eitherand that could be a possibility

Anyways would the Flourish (i think that is what you're using to get rid of algae) kill off the black algae that is starting up in my 2.5 tank at school? It's irritating the snot out of me, and with it being allergy season that is saying a lot

love the fry, but why not add a betta to the tank

*goes to hide* hml

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Houston you have a problem?

That Black stuff looks like BGA which really isn't an algae but a bacteria. You can do a blackout or use Erethromycin(EM)tablets. I bet that tank is near a window or something. BGA is caused by too much light and not enough nitrate.



My Scapes

Upikabu &#8211; Thanks for this update, I guess we will give him one more week, but that&#8217;s it

Heidi &#8211; I hope you have a hankie ready . As tetratech says, if it is BGA (Blue-Green Algae) then the best treatment would be some form of Erethromycin, I personally used the Maracin I tablets in my tanks. If it is BBA (Black-Beard-Algae) then the Excel should help.

Ingo

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Oh,

I forgot to mention an observation I made during the last couple of days, maybe the Excel recommenders would be able to comment.

Ever since I started to add the Excel the bubbling of my plants has been reduced to almost nothing. The bubble count is the same for at least the last 2 weeks.

Do you have a similar experience?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Same for me. I started using it about the same time as you and what I took for "pearling" has stopped. I am just assuming that what I had was algae "boiling and bubbling." I have less algae now after several cleanings and the Excell but it hasn't totally stopped growing on the leaf edges and such.

Great log BTW.

jan

Ok the tank isn't by a window, it has a black out from Friday at 5 pm to about 8 am on Monday every week...
The lights are only on from about 8 am to 5 pm each day...does that help anything? I'm also doing a 100% water change on the tank and cleaning everything every week
So what's the problem with this tank? Grrrrrr, i'm understanding what you were going through and still going through with that algae Ingo:%)

OK tomorrow I'll take pictures of the "yuck" and post in my own thread

Thanks for the help...now back to Little_Fish's thread

What do you mean we have no new pictures tonight? I was hoping for more pictures, ok i'm out of herenight night, Houston

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Thanks puddle cat and Heidi for the input,

I was busy last night taking a few shots of my [link=29G Setup]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/61406_3.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link].

I only have a few updates on this tank. One thing that I saw last night was that my Egeria Najas is completely melting away . I have no idea why, maybe the Excel, or the fact that I trimmed all of it last weekend and it doesn&#8217;t like that (although it didn&#8217;t melt other times), or it finally had enough from sitting in the water stream of the spraybar (far away, but within its current).

On page 13, I asked a question about one of my plants as I can&#8217;t identify it. I assumed it is an Alternanthera reineckii "roseafolia" and Bensaf verified that finding. But yesterday my Amano books arrived and in one of them he has a picture of a tank with all green plants and one red, called Althernanthera sessilis. It looks to me as if that is that plant. Anyone can clarify this? I didn&#8217;t order it, but quite a few plants in my order had been substituted.

Ingo

Here is the plant in question:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Ingo,

I know for a fact that Elodea/Anacharis (Egeria densa), which is in the same family as Egeria najas, is extremely sensitive to Excel (mentioned in my recent thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Photo%20Booth/66106.html?08507044#[/link]). I've experienced this firsthand in all 3 of my tanks. Everytime I added Excel (even less than recommended amount and not as often), the Elodea immediately melted away, while the other plants are unaffected. It baffled me initially, especially since it's been growing so well in my 42g for over 3 months (I only added Excel to it once, to try to get rid of BBA). It wasn't until I saw [link=this plantedtank.net profile that I realized Excel was the culprit. Once I stopped applying Excel, the remaining plant eventually did grow back.

My guess is Excel has a similar effect to Egeria najas.

Last edited by upikabu at 10-Nov-2005 05:41

-P

As I mentioned you can't be all things to all fish and plants. Eventually you have to see what works well with your conditions and go with that set. That is really the key. Otherwise you're constantly setting conditions that will have a counter effect on something else. LF - So your reading up on the master
- Tetratech

My Scapes

upikabu,

Thank you for this update, I guess that means we found the culprit
It is not too much of a problem though as I think all the people who said that I have too many stems anyway are right (first one was Bensaf). This means that I can go out and find dome nice replacements .

tetratech,

Yeah, I am learning from the master himself.
I have to say that my initial reaction was being disappointed. As soon as the package arrived I opened it and started with book 1 (I got all 3, plus the Tropica Catalogue) and I couldn&#8217;t find any mentioning of what plants are used in the tanks. Next day I took the book 3 on the bus commute and in there (and in book 2) are the names of the plants. Book 3 because it is large tanks

Ingo

PS: anyone any idea about this plant above?

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow, you went for the whole collection. Your going to be an Amano apprentice for sure. I just have the first cheapo book "Aquarium Plant Paradise" that came out before the 3 big volumes. Amano's books I think are more visual than detailed analysis.

I don't know the plant you have in question. Where in the world is Bensaf when you need him.





My Scapes

Wow, you went for the whole collection.

What can I say, once I have an obsession I follow through with it .

Remember that I am &#8220;in the business&#8221; for only 9 months now and I already have 3 tanks, one of which it this high tech beauty. I am old, I have no time to waste .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Whatever floats your boat. Speaking of boats, I think we are in the same one. I'll be 43 in May

My Scapes

No f*ing way

You, Bensaf, and I, we are all in the same boat, Bensaf being the senior and you the junior, but still within a 7 month time span.

I can see all of us in a small rowboat paddling on the great lake of life, already able to see the other shore.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes f'ing way

Although I thing Bensaf is already in a rowboat with Plantbrain and Amano in some remote south american location looking for new species of flora. I understand the excurison will last years.

I can't wait to see what they've discovered

My Scapes

Pardon my interruption of this conversation regarding your advanced ages (), but LF, I have a question, if you don't mind:

I've been looking over all the pics of your espei fry. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't espei closely related to harlequin rasboras? If so, how did you get them to breed so easily? I've read some sources that say harlies are fairly easy to breed, but most say it's very diffcult... yet yours seem to be breeding like jackrabbits, or like multis (the jackrabbits of the aquarium)

What's your secret, do you do anything special? I assume your water is soft with a low pH because of the CO2... anything else?

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Back in the saddle!

Pardon my interruption of this conversation regarding your advanced ages
Nowher I'm afraid to ask how old you are?

**BENSAF UPDATE**
All I can say is that he is alive. Anything further would be an invasion of his privacy.




Last edited by tetratech at 10-Nov-2005 16:54

My Scapes

I actually turn 23 on Saturday... and I already feel old

Good to hear Bensaf is alive and well, cheers for the update

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Well my son , you mentioned something that I had observed myself. On one hand I wanted to keep it a secret (at least until the fry is big) on the other I couldn&#8217;t wait to scream it out. I am very well aware of the fact that most references to Espei say that they are extremely difficult to breed, with requirements like a ph of 5 to 6 (which I never had). Just look at the FP profile for this fish (soon I will suggest a bunch of updates).

I am a little embarassed, but I am (was) considering to submit an article to TFH, or at least a detailed question reading the rareness of my breeding success. Also, I was thinking of writing an article here for FP called something like &#8220;Beginner&#8217;s Luck&#8221;.

But I decided to do more research if this fry explosion is really that rare. I already found one website where a Scandinavian reports of easy breeding success. As disappointing as it is to find others with the same success, as helpful it is to avoid making false statements.

I just think my Espei love the messed-up environment, with loads of different algae types to feed on. Nevertheless, now that there is much less algae I still have a large number of very young fry (few days old).

It also could be that nowadays the Espei come from a farm and have become much easier to breed, but that is a pure guess on my side.

Good observation NowherMan6,

Ingo

PS: A toast to Bensaf, wherever he may be right now.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 10-Nov-2005 17:58

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

*Raises glass of uh tea? to Bensaf* Take us with you

Anyways, I wish my harlies would get in the mood, but then again I might just lose all my mind if they went after itMy metaes are enough to drive me crazy

So Ingo, could the "little red plant" be acting like a crypt and melting away, but will regnerate (so I've been told) after a bit? Don't worry, by the looks of the tank I don't suspect you will lose it all

heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Heidi,

You misunderstood. The little red plant seems to be just fine, it is a green stem plant on the right of the rock valley (in the back) that is melting (Egeria Najas) .

I easily have now 50 Espei fry of all ages in the tank, I think I would be able to keep maybe 30 (plus the 12 adults) and I will have to see what to do with the rest. Maybe it is soon time to get some Pearl Gouramies, I think they might like "a snack" .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

ok what can I say yesterday, was a bad bad bad day, and this week yeah that explains itor rather

same thing, maybe it will regrow? heck if i know...and if you're just going to feed the fry to a gourami ship them southi might be able to find room for them

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Well,

What can I say, I am a fool. I just spent 6 hours messing with the tank (including water change), hoping to make it look better by moving plants around. Honestly, I think it is just as &#8220;unorganized&#8221; as it was before .

Without further comment, here are a bunch of pictures from the process:

Before the Reorganization

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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With Plant Group on the right removed

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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With Corkscrew Vals removed

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Back of Rock Valley planted with Corkscrew Vals

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Rest of Tank replanted

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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A close-up of the Corkscrew laid out for replanting

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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The school of Espei fry in the open space during replant

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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A closeup of Rock Valley, the only part I kinda like

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

With all of that, the Egeria Najas, Rotala Rotundifolia, and the last (sorry tetratech) Wisteria are gone.

I also repositioned to spray bar so it is horizontal just below the surface on the left tank side. I think the current created by this arrangement is strong enough, so I also removed the last power head that I had in the tank.

In addition, I stopped adding Excel, let&#8217;s see how quickly the algae can return.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 12-Nov-2005 16:50

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Wow you've been busy. I hope the wife took you out for a nice dinner after that.

I definitely like the Corkscrews behind rock valley. I think you need to decide if your going to keep that focal point or do something more random with groupings and pieces of hardscape. I'm sure you'll get some good ideas from all those Amano pics. Right now your tank looks like two tanks:



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

I hope the wife took you out for a nice dinner after that

Right, sure .

How excited do you think she was after I disappeared for 6 hours into the basement ?

Very very good observation tetratech, it surely looks like two tanks. My vision went only so far as I knew what to put behind the Rock Valley. The rest was more like &#8220;where do I put all the plants now?&#8221; Honestly, I like the Rock Valley much better. I guess I will look around for loads of tall grassy plants.

Ingo

Just now I looked at the tank and on the right hand side is an Espei fry meeting. Unfortunately the pictures didn&#8217;t come out well (I will show one of only 5), but there were at least 30 &#8220;older&#8221; fry hanging out in formation, COOL.

Here are the 5:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good Heavens I haven't been here in ages, but am just in time for the new pictures!

Wow LF everything looks to be growing really well, I get what Tetratech said about two tanks, hmmmm. I never really understood why you didn't put rock valley in the middle but I guess that would look a little staged and too garden like rather then river like.

am very sleepy but just wanted to say it looks brillant

GFG
xx

ps where is bensaf? I want to start my 5 gallon and need to pick his brains.


Last edited by goldfishgeek at 12-Nov-2005 19:09

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

I like the rock and grass and really enjoy the third pic you posted it's truly my favorite Now at least you know where the fry are hidingmaybe that lends a clue as to where the adults are going This is exactly why I refuse to try and aquascape, I can't organize a room, much less plants in a tank

And I don't suppose your wife was happy for you to disappear for 6 hrsso did you take her out for dinner to make up for it? That might help heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

GFG,

Thanks for the encouragement.

In general, using the middle of a tank as a focal point is not a good idea. The old Chinese (I think) found out that harmony for the human eye is created by a &#8220;golden rule&#8221; of division which takes any length, divides it by 2.6 (roughly) and then puts the focus on the 1 mark either from the left or right. So, as an example, a tank of 72 inches length, divided by 2.6 gives you about 27.7 inches. You should put the focus about 27.7 inches either from the left or right.

Heidi,

No, I didn&#8217;t take her out to dinner. Instead she spent the afternoon and evening with her friend and I took care of the kids. That is worth 10 dinners . And the fry is always hiding all over the tank, too many for one spot only.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Log Update &#8211; Week 7

A few things have happened since last week, in particular the algae has been defeated and a replant concluded in two distinct layouts, let&#8217;s call them Left Tank and Right Tank (thanks to tetratech who identified the split).

I treated the tank for one week with Flourish Excel, 2 x 50ml and 5x 20ml, with the result that pretty much all algae has gone. The only noticeable negative side effect was that the Egeria Najas didn&#8217;t like the Excel and melted away. A small price to pay .

The replant didn&#8217;t conclude in an optimal tank, but I think it gives me a better idea of where to go from here. Maybe I will leave it like this for a while so the plants can settle, but on the other hand I am already itching to move on. Darn addiction.

Since about 3 weeks I have the following fertilizer and water change routine:

Sat &#8211; 50% water change
Sat &#8211; 2tsp Baking Soda
Sat &#8211; 0.5tsp Seachem Equilibrium
Sat, Mon, Wed &#8211; 1tsp KNO3 and 0.25tsp K2SO4
Mon, Wed &#8211; 0.125tsp KH2PO4
Sun, Tue, Thu &#8211; 0.5tsp Plantex (+ Iron)

I would say that I inject about 4 to 5 bps of CO2.

Here is a series of tank development pictures.

Week 1 (one week after setup), plants starting to grow in

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 3, tank is becoming a jungle, in particular the right hand side (Water Sprite)

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 5, most of the weeds (Water Sprite and Wisteria) have been removed, first smaller replant took place

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 7, today, after major replant

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Ingo it is definately looking nice and 2 tanks in 1? heck who can beat that

Glad you gave the wife a night off to go and spend with her buddies without the twins and you're right that is worth 10 dinners at least so is quite fair

Again the tank is looking good...

houston

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

most of the weeds (Water Sprite and Wisteria) have been removed
]:|]:|]:|

Please refrain from calling Wisteria a weed. Mine is very smart and I've trained it to crawl. It's taking up a consirable amount of real estate in my tank and I'm proud to display it in my avatar

Last edited by tetratech at 14-Nov-2005 07:05

My Scapes

Funny, they only become weeds when you get tired of pruning them...

It's not their fault they like your tank so much!

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Back in the saddle!

Heidi,

Thanks for letting me know that you like the tank. It is not really want I want in the long run, but at least it gives me more ideas of what might look good. Maybe I should get another 125G and make one like the left of this tank and the other like the right *hides from the wife*.

tetratech,

I knew I could pull your strings when I wrote this. But you know that it served only in a temporary role in my tank, namely helping me to get established. BTW, I wonder how established I am after replanting anything larger than 3 inches.

NowherMan6,



All,

Last night I did a rough headcount on the number of fry. Just counting the larger ones, I guess they are between 3 and 7 weeks old, I came up with over 50. I guess I am stocked .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I knew I could pull your strings when I wrote this.
I guess you have my number on that one.

BTW, I wonder how established I am after replanting anything larger than 3 inches.
Sorry missed that one, what do you mean?

My Scapes

tetratech,

With established I meant the plant mass. I know the water and the filter should be established now, but loads of plants have to reestablish the root system.

On another note, I went to the LFS to look for plants that could be used in my &#8220;left&#8221; tank. Nothing, nada&#8230;
All they had were tiny sprouts that would take months to grow to a feasible size. I will have to keep on looking as I also couldn&#8217;t find anything reasonable online.
While I was there I &#8220;inspected&#8221; the pearl gouramies. It was just a get-to-know kind of thing, trying to sex them, seeing how aggressive they are to each other, etc.

Here are some new pictures, beginning with another plant identification question. I posted this plant before but it was rather shaded at that time. Now it is in the open (the tall one way in the corner). I got it as a 3 inch long stem mixed into the large plant order I received when setting up the tank 7 weeks ago.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:


Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 15-Nov-2005 04:39[/font]

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A Ramshorn munching on algae (I hope) on the Glosso

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

An Oto resting on my dwarf sag, BTW I was able to count all 6 that I should still have, I haven&#8217;t been able to do that in quite some time

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club