FishProfiles.com Message Forums

And here is our old cat resting on the above mentioned chair (and towels).

He would also be the reason why an open tank in our household is not a good idea .

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Not much new to report,

Except maybe that I am switching to daily fert addition.

I add 1/4tsp KNO3, 1/16tsp Potassium Sulfate, and 10ml of TMG every day since Saturday after the water change.

I am wondering if it makes a difference if ferts are added in the morning or the evening.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am wondering if it makes a difference if ferts are added in the morning or the evening
Are you experimenting just for the hell of it or are you trying to correct a problem (hair algae).

I still think you have less room for error because of your light. Not that it's ridiculously high, but it is very high given the tank size. Doesn't Amano only use like 1.5 to 2 wpg on his big tanks. As I said before you have double the light I have for the same depth. I do think you plants grow faster than mine, probably because of the higher light, but with that comes less wiggle room for things like fish waste, etc.

Interesting though that you get thread algae, nowher and I get GW and Bensaf get's nothing. If you could figure that out :%)

BTW - Nice kitty, looks like he/she is guarding the tank or waiting for the fish to get bigger.

Last edited by tetratech at 03-Jan-2006 08:49

My Scapes

Interesting though that you get thread algae, nowher and I get GW and Bensaf get's nothing. If you could figure that out

Interesting indeed. Sometimes I get the feeling that it all comes down to the fact that when he started his tank he stuffed it full of plants right off the bat, while we all waited for ours to grow in. We all dose pretty much the same way in a method that's shown to keep algae down, but I think maybe it was those first few critical days/ weeks where the tanks were settling in that made the difference. That's why I'm anxious to start a small tank (5-7gals... once Christmas gifts are paid off ) because it's easier to stuff a small tank than a large tank. If it turns out relatively algae free then maybe that'll provide a bit more insight into keeping tanks relatively algae free no matter what the size.

---

Back in the saddle!

Oh, and I also forgot to add... I hate to beat a dead horse but...




NowherMan6 attached this image:


Last edited by NowherMan6 at 03-Jan-2006 08:58[/font]

---

Back in the saddle!

Nowher,
Yes I agree with the plant mass at the start, not only does it add in fert suck up more importantly nh3 as well. Basically Bensaf started off with a much bigger biofilter than anyone else.

As far as the Driftwood I think LF gets the "Drift". For the time being if it was me I would just put the coffee table into the tank.

My Scapes

LF,

I have some 2x4's laying around you can have..........

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

You guys are too much

Yes, I get the drift, and I am even willing to pay a commission to anybody who finds me the right pieces of qualified driftwood.

The “new” ideas about the fertilizing routine are more of theoretical nature, although I wouldn’t mind if the remaining thread algae would disappear in the process. My thoughts are:

- Fertilizing daily creates a more balanced environment for nutrient availability. I just have not done that before because the Plantex was so hard to dissolve (as I probably added way too much anyways).
- What happens with nutrients at nighttime? Most likely nothing, I doubt that any organism (or filter media) would use them up while the lights are out. But if so then dosing in the morning would be an advantage.

The cat is an old man, he is about 14 years old and way too lazy to jump on the big tank. But a Nano, well that is another story .

Amano has on tanks of my size about 3wpg running for about 10 to 12 hours, only really big tanks have maybe 2 to 2.5 (at least that was what I calculated). Also, he never mentions any short bright light time which makes me believe his full lights are on for the full duration.

I guess this coming weekend I will create a major open space in the middle of the tank and sink the coffee table .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just for the fun of it,

Here is a picture of the 2 Anubias Barteri that I have on the left side of my tank.

Count them, there are EIGHT flowers, some coming, some in full bloom, and some going

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And as a reminder,

Soon it is going to be time for this guy (and his girl) to come home to the big tank

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

nowher and I get GW and Bensaf get's nothing.

Hmmm....I wouldn't quite say that. I get some, everyone does, just very very little so it's almost invisible.

Oh, dear I can hear the illusions shattering from here

The Ottos must be eating something, I don't feed 'em. I've got a Hillstream Loach for over a year that I've never even see swim much less eat. I get the occassional green spot on the glass if I let PO4 drop. I had a bad dose of Brown Algae when I changed over the tank recently. Silica Sand , to be expected.I just let it burn itself out.

With regard to the lighting. Amano is quite clear that he only runs the full lights for a few hours a day. The rest of the time all his tanks are basically low light.The exception being his very small tanks which he runs about 6 wpg.

Getting in on the horse flogging - try florida driftwood. I still think you should get a pile of so-so pieces and just build them up.

Also plants consume nutrients 24/7.They still work at night. Actually they do MOST of their growing at night - check your tank first thing in the morning and you'll see the spurts. It doesn't matter when you add the ferts as long as they are there, whenever is convenient.

Last edited by bensaf at 03-Jan-2006 21:19

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf for the input,

Yeah yeah, it is always nice to have 3 guys on your back telling you to get some driftwood

Believe me, I am on that website at least once a week.

And Bensaf and algae – I think he only says that to make us feel better

Bensaf – where does Amano state that he runs his tanks with full light only part of the time? I haven’t seen this reference yet. All he says in his books is the wattage and duration, no mention of staging (although I might be wrong as I read them maybe 2 months ago and I am an old man and might have forgotten what I read ).

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I get some, everyone does, just very very little so it's almost invisible
ah ha! I knew it That's why I never saw more pictures of your Bensaf does Amano Paradise Utopia Eden Aquatic Forest Setup :%)

Actually they do MOST of their growing at night - check your tank first thing in the morning and you'll see the spurts.
That is so true and I was going to post this question, when I wake up I swear my Stargrass looks like it grew 3 or 4 inches.

My Scapes

Actually they do MOST of their growing at night - check your tank first thing in the morning and you'll see the spurts.

Yeah, so true. I swear my green water looks so much more lush and juicy in the morning, it's incredible.


But seriously, considering how easy it is for algae to use nutrients of course there's going to be SOME, but I think we were referring to the problems, the outbreaks, the explosions - THAT'S what Bensaf never gets, the bad stuff! I still personally think it's because he started out right.

---

Back in the saddle!

My problem is that I rarely see my tank in the mornings. When I leave the house it is dark in the basement and I don't want to turn on any lights so the fish get their well needed rest (with all that breeding going on).

I will have to check the night-growth out on the coming weekend .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That's why I never saw more pictures of your Bensaf does Amano Paradise Utopia Eden Aquatic Forest Setup

Ohhhh...sounds like a challenge


Guess I'll have to post a pic tomorrow

I've resisted meddling with this one, letting everything grow in. Still not there yet, maybe 85%. Then again my 85% is probably way better then somes 100% ........

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

I am always happy when you post a picture, not only when you are challenged to do so .

We need to see way more of your tanks so we can learn from the visual experience as well as your writing.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ohhhh...sounds like a challenge
Whatever it takes

My Scapes

Guess I'll have to post a pic tomorrow

Well, today is tomorrow, isn't it?

no pic here

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok you asked for it and here it be....

The right side needs more time. The Uruquaysenis and Narrow Leaf Fern need to fill out more to balance thins.

The left side is a bit off as the Macrandra was over trimmed and needs a bit more height to fill the hole it left

bensaf attached this image:

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Another

bensaf attached this image:

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

This is actually my first time to try Glosso. It's working ok. One thing I like - if it hits an obstacle in it's path, it just climbs over it and continues on it's merry way. I've decided to let run rampant and see where it goes.

Here's some climbing over an Erect Moss obstacle.

bensaf attached this image:

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Well Bensaf,

No disappointment, as usual .

That is what I would call a heavily planted tank, left to right and top to bottom, I love it.

About letting the Glosso run rampant: It will take over your lower plants and kill them off. I find my Glosso to be very intrusive, it climbs all over my rocks and into the moss, if I let it. Also, it managed to grow really dense at the center of a Crypt Wendtii that is now neglecting to put any new leaves out (and grows very slow).
I had my Glosso and Hair Grass fight for space at Rock Valley and guess who won (but maybe I had a bad hair – grass- day )?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Finally we get something from the great Bensaf.

Very lush and beautiful. Nice textures, etc.
I see what you mean about the fullness of the left to the right. I might also have to send you shopping with LF for more substantial dw or you simply need to prune more or I just can't see it in the pic.

Did you remove the Mayacca? One thing I'm not sure about is whether I like the contrast of the sand more than I do the green ground cover.

My Scapes

The “Driftwood War” is getting into full swing

I wouldn’t mind going shopping with Bensaf at all, maybe we could meet somewhere in the middle, like Ireland .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I dunno Bensaf, that glosso looks a little leggy to me, maybe you need some pointers on how to really get your plants growing well...


LF, I'm telling you, ebay! ebay! ebay! Morwe driftwood than you'll know what to do with.

---

Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Ah yeah?

I challenge you to find one piece that I would not turn down for one reason or another .

Try me

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Alright then...


http://cgi.ebay.com/UNIQUE-HUGE-DRIFTWOOD-ROCKS-IMBED-Aquarium_W0QQitemZ7735756182QQcategoryZ66790QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A huge piece, very branchy - I'd cut it up into one large one and several smaller ones. Give it a bleach bath, a scrubbbing, then let it soak in water with Prime... it should be fine.

---

Back in the saddle!

That is a really nice piece and your right about breaking it up.


My Scapes

Well NowherMan6,

That took you a long time to find anything, didn't it ?

I have to say that it looks very good, thank you so much (feeling like a looser now because all I always find are silly blocks of wood).

The asking price is also not all that high, I might just place a bid on it. In the worst case it is a learning experience and a small dollar loss.

Thanks again, let me know if you find other jewels like that,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You're very welcome

There was actually a big piece I saw last week that was just as nice, if not nicer, a nice tall stump/ branchy type thing but it's gone now.

I always cruise ebay for driftwood and the like because I have Mental MTS, which is different that regular MTS. Mental MTS is when you make detailed plans and aquascape layouts in your head for various tanks but never do them, MTS is when you actually do it.

I'm still dreaming of a big 100+ gallon driftwood filled tank featuring a boatload of rams, or a few firemouths or angels and a big ol' school of tetras... a real biotope type thing... but I digress. So yeah, keep an eye out on ebay, lots of good stuff.

---

Back in the saddle!

The advantage of Mental MTS is that it is much cheaper

I just saw that somebody put a bid in for this sucker, I hope it is none of you folks ]:|

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Would I do that?

My Scapes

I don’t know, would you?

There is another old saying that goes like:

One cannot trust the upside down – head in tank – goggles on – aquascaper



Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Dang I thought it was the other way around......... oh NO!!!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I dunno Bensaf, that glosso looks a little leggy to me, maybe you need some pointers on how to really get your plants growing well...

Cheeky young pup ....


I didn't do anything special. You guys were nagging me so I just grabbed the camera. Unfortunately the Wisteria and Ammania were starting to close up for the night.The photos dark.

Current problems I see-
The Augustifolia and Macrandra need to fill out more to fill that far left side. Another couple of weeks should do that.
The Fern and Uruquay needs a couple more months.
The Wisteria needs to come down and forward a few inches, layered more. Actually I'd like to replace this with Stargrass but still can't find it here for some reason.
The Ammania needs to be sculpted. It's a bit shapeless looking.

I agree with tetra completely. The Glosso was more of a curiosity as I've never tried it before. I think I prefer the open sand look. It had more depth, the Glosso make it look a bit flat.But it can be removed easily enough if I decide to do so.

BTW the Mayacca is still there, between the Wisteria and Ammania but is a lot greener then the last time I posted a pic

The driftwood has been swamped and has lost it's impact. I'm meeting up with Paulus (Upikabu) tomorrow, so I'm sure we'll be hitting a few places with "driftwood mountains", I'll be looking out for a couple of thin branchy bits. I can fit them in nicely without disturbing anything.

I'll be posting some close ups in a seperate thread. I've got some nice hard to find/not so common plants in there, including one so rare in the US most don't even believe it exists. I'm going to post photos and growing parameters/my own experience on each of them.

I can also un-hijack Ingo's thread !

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Don’t worry about high jacking my thread, we asked for it .

The driftwood has been swamped and has lost it's impact

That is exactly one of my points on finding just the right driftwood. It is rather easy to find one when the scape is designed to not fill out the tank (tetratech), but loads of plants that cover the tank make it hard to have anything (may it be rock or wood, or even a castle) stick out. I see that even in Amano’s tanks that are heavily planted (as in full, not just substrate and some height areas) the wood disappears over time.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

NowherMan6,

What are you getting me into with this driftwood selection?

It is by now already over $50 plus $16 shipping, and over 3 days left on the auction.

See, this is a price range where the wood is should be of good quality, and not only of good size and shape. And quality is one thing you cannot test from looking at a picture. It might have bugs, and fungus, and what not, it might even begin to rot already.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm sorry I ever mentioned it

Hey, I was only trying to help. Considering a piece that size 50 bucks isn't that much, but you're dead on about the quality - from the look of it it looks fine, but I guess you never know. I was always under the assumption that a good bleach scrub would get rid of any critters, but again, you never know.

What can I say, some of us just like to live on the wild side with ebay

---

Back in the saddle!

I am a major chicken when it comes to these things

And don’t worry about the additional stress you cause me, if you find more wood then keep on informing me. I will see how high it is a few hours before the auction closes.

With these bidding things on E-Bay: sometimes the price is valid but other times a bidding war starts where one is willing to bid more than someone else simply because that person assumes that the previous bidder must know that the product is good (which is not the case), and so forth.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Will do boss

I always stay out of bidding wars. usually I jump on "Buy it now" items if I like them, because then you stay away from all that other nonsense. Keep your eyes open, deals are out there to be had.

---

Back in the saddle!

My old boss and his friend used to start their own biddig wars on their items. Just a little bit on the dishonest side. He was the kind of guy to do just about anything for a buck.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yeah Wingsdlc,

I was worried about that too, there might be a group of people out there who artificially drive prices up and cause the "if others want it it must be good" assumption.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am definitely not brave enough to buy anything off ebay. My friend has been having problems with not getting purchases after paying for them. Scary!

Ingo don't let these guys pressure you into getting driftwood just for the sake of having it. When you find the right piece you'll know it and then you'll have it. Just keep your eyes peeled and you'll find it eventually. Personally I think they're jealous of the all green look, you have so much growth it makes their eyes cross with envy and they must nitpick. Myself I'm also jealous but I think I handle it ok.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thanks for the support luvmykrib

I am rather sure that the gang actually wants to help me and I appreciate their efforts very much. If we wouldn’t nitpick on each other we would not be able to bring our tanks to the next level. And don’t you worry, I am doing the same to them . And thank you for the compliment; it is always nice to have some feedback.

On a different note:

Just to show you how easy it is to lose stuff in your tank

Besides the hardscape that is visible in the first picture, there have been another 3 massive rocks added to the tank until that second picture was taken.

And all seem to be non-existent

Even the rocks of “Rock Valley” seem to be smaller now. Are they shrinking ?

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And don’t you worry, I am doing the same to them
Now I'm in for it.

LF,
That's a great pic of the tank with just the harscape and now. It really is very serene and the grass-like plants were really a good move.

As you probably know I am not a big fan of making the corners of a tank tall. Obviously most people do it to hide equipment, but in doing so it makes the tank look contrived. Sometimes the corners look good full if it works with your setup or if your doing a slope down effect from one corner. If you add some driftwood touches here touches there and group your rotala m. thicker and add more to the left I think you tank will really be . You could always finetune the foreground with more rock, etc.

In terms of equipment you could really hide alot of it behind the apons or eventually eliminate the reactor and heater (visually anyway)


Last edited by tetratech at 06-Jan-2006 12:49

My Scapes

I love keeping up with this tank! What size and overall shape of driftwood are you looking for. We employees get first crack at these things, you know! I usually buy awesome pieces, even if I have no intention of using it in the immediate future.

tetratech - Thanks, I am working on it

Tainted Glory - Haven't seen you in a while . I am looking for branchy wood that I could arrange in a group. The ones I get to see in your store (after you guys pick up all the good pieces ) are not suitable. Here is why:

The section of wood that is in the Gravel and Rock isle (Malaysian, I think) has sometimes pieces with the right shape, but too small to make an impact in my tank.

The other pieces that you have in the parts section (usually inside the empty "for sale" tanks) are not suitable as they are too chunky.

Thanks,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A piece like THIS ONE would be great:

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update – Week 15

I don’t like weekly maintenance and water changes and finally I figured out why: they make you look really close at your tank and any flaw seems major, even if it is not visible from just a yard away. Similar to these cosmetic mirrors that blow up the size of your face and every pore seems giant .

This week’s close-up observation was that my sags and chain swords are still showing some “melting” (see picture after the weekly full tank shots. It also seems that the Apon leaves are getting thinner and more yellowish. Hell, even the Glosso seems to be getting yellow. I believe it must have something to do with my recent mingling with fertilizers. I guess I ran the system to lean, now the question is which one is missing or maybe even what combination is missing. To counteract the melting I added a 3/4 tsp of KNO3 right away, also upped the TMG to a 20ml dosage. The plan for follow-up fertilization will change as follows:

KNO3: from 1/4tsp to 1/2tsp daily
Potassium Sulfate: stays at 1/8 daily
P: from nothing to 1/8 on day 3 and 5
TMG: from 10ml to 15ml daily

Otherwise, the tank is just growing fuller, two stems of the Macandra were trimmed as they reached the surface. Fish seem to be doing great and now that the fry are getting to be adults soon it worries me that I might have too many (not sure though). I might add the Pearls any times soon, although the male is very very territorial in the 20G and at least once in a while chases even the Platies away from the “center stage”. The female seems to be very fond of him as she rather often comes right back to him and offers him her throat and sides which he nips on gently, just to chase her away again afterwards. I figure he is just a teenager and doesn’t know how to treat a lady yet .

Weekly tank photos will be limited to 4, in 5 week increments. Then I have a few close-ups to show.

Ingo

Tank at setup:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 5, pretty full but just the beginning of “having fun”

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 10, one of my favorite stages of the tank development, all looks very nice and balanced. Also look at that tiny plant in the front right corner, which is a small piece of Star Grass that I added from the 20G.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 15, this weekend. Look at that front right section again, the Star Grass has grown quite nicely . Rock Valley on the other hand has completely lost the status of “focus point”. The group on the left with the Crypt Retro and Apons has taken all the attention.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the Star Grass, I like it and I wouldn’t mind using it in other spots of the tank as a mid ground group.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Can you see the bad shape that some of my sags/chain swords are in? Hopefully I can correct that.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And how can we forget the main attraction in this tank, about 100 of these :

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Has anyone here ever seen plant photos from Robert Mapplethorpe? Anubias flowers really remind me of his art (not that I want to imply my photos are as good as his).

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now here comes a segment of “Oto Mania”. The good thing about water changes is that I once in a while can count my Otos and check if all 6 are still alive. Now, for the first time, the guys were so nice to pose for a picture together:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then they ran off again but at least 5 stayed together for an additional shot:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then they changes direction and gave me one more good look before they decided that the party was over :

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Very nice pics LF, I particilarly like the anubias and the oto pics, yes during water changes I have counted all 9 of mine. I guess your having success with stargrass as well. I think the addition of my no3 will make the stargrass leaves even fuller and larger. Here's a pic of your's and mine.



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Yeah, the good old New Jersey Star Grass

I think one of the reasons yours looks fuller might be that:

a) Mine grows in the “low light” area of the tank, far away from the bulbs
b) Mine would look fuller if I had more light on them while taking the picture
c) A combination of a) and b)

But just like you I am scared to mess with the plant. No doubt it does way better when ferts are added and more light is available. The difference of the one in my 20G to this one is amazing, here it looks about 500% better (if such a subjective observation is measurable in the first place). I have a Red Rubin Sword to the right of the Macandra and I don’t think it does too much in my tank. I just might take it out and plant the Star Grass in the right back corner, with shorter elements slightly growing diagonally in front of the Macandra. If I ever dare to mess with the Star Grass, that is .

Another topic: I just fished the 2 Pearls out of the 20G QT (easier than I thought with all the plants in there) and have them in a bag floating in the 125G. I have my fingers crossed that they don’t drive my Espei insane. I guess this will also mean the end of major breeding, but I sure cannot complain about not having enough Espei as it is .

Wish me luck,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Congrats on the big day for the Pearls. I was wondering when you were going to turn them loose. I bet you'll still see fry every now and then, they cant get all of them...

---

Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6,

I have the Pearls in now but I am a little worried as they, naturally, stay in hiding close to the substrate. I am not sure how well (or long) Gouramies can "breath" water alone before they need to go to the surface .

We will see in a few hours.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,

So far so good

It seems like the Pearls are through the worst.
I never felt so emotional when adding a fish to a tank, probably because I had sufficient time to feel attached to these two buggers .

I documented the addition in photos and the whole process up to the last picture took over 4 hours (a mini labor ).

To start off, here they are bagged up and adjusting to the new tank’s water parameters.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One hour later I added them, they immediately swam to the Macandra and shortly after this picture was taken they disappeared behind it. I got very worried that they might forget to breath.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Another 2 hours later they came out for the first time, checking out the open space from the security of the Anubias leaves, just to disappear again.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And another hour later they got a little more daring and started to go on a sightseeing tour. I guess they like Rock Valley .

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Another, and last one for now, shot of the two. It is not hard to identify who is the boss. She is following him wherever he goes. We will see how long it takes until he is ready to take over the tank as a whole. That should guarantee some tight schooling from the Espei .

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Boy your really pushing the post count. At this rate you'll be to 1,000 by 3pm

Very nice pics, I particularly like the one with rock valley© in the back.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech,

Yeah, I realize that we are getting close to the 1000th entry. I wonder if the entire site will blow up once this happens .

The Pearls actually still spend quite some time in the “bushes”, but I feel more confident that they will make it.

The big question now is what fish to add next? I am thinking about 2 to 3 True Siamese Algae Eaters. Anyone with any tips on them?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Lookin' good LF! I especially liked the few posts with the ottos. I might have to go get me a few of those, now that I actually have some algae for them to eat.

I'm glad your new guests enjoyed the tour of your tank. My pearl can las quite a while before going up to breathe air. So I wouldn't worry about that.

I remember talking to you about the amount of iron in our micros. I found a new type to use from our store. Only .033% iron in it(as opposed to the .6% or so in Kent's). It's julian Sprung's flora plan. This way I can dose that all the time, and use the Kent's when I need to add some iron.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I am thinking about 2 to 3 True Siamese Algae Eaters. Anyone with any tips on them

Really cool fish, seem great for large tanks. Ive heard them described as 6 inch torpedos when full grown, should be in little shoals too, 4-6. Read up on how to spot the real ones, you dont want any rowdy flying foxes spoiling that peaceful tranquil espei/gourami/oto party

---

Back in the saddle!

Love the oto mania shots! The rest of the tank seems to be doing well as well. Glad the pearls seem to be taking to their new home nicely.

True siamese algae eaters are great fish. Warning, they love java moss. They will prune it alot and neglect the algae. If this isn't a problem then they would make a great addition to the tank. Be sure that you don't get the flying foxes as they do get rowdy and aggressive and really don't eat a lot of algae when they become adult.
There is a way to tell them apart, the number of sets of barbels and also the long stripe is slightly different, or at least mine were. Foxes have flat bellies and SAE's tend to get rounder like the otos.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Yeah, I realize that we are getting close to the 1000th entry
What does 1,000 poster get?

My Scapes

Matty – Thanks for the comments on the Oto shots, this was really the first time ever that I had them all in one spot and was able to take a group picture. They also seem to get really fat, all this food (aka algae) is doing them good. I am using TMG now as my sole source of Iron. So far I have not seen a deficiency that I would think is based on a lack of Iron, my red Macandra is as red as ever, so are the leaves of the invisible (at least in photos) Red Rubin Sword.

NowherMan6 – Thanks for the info, I read up on SAEs already about 3 months ago as I always liked them. My LFS has then rarely (so far I have not come across them there) as they make sure they sell them as the real deal. The have false ones, and I made sure to study them as well.

luvmykrib – thanks for the comments on the Oto shots and the info regarding the SAE. I didn’t know the part with the rounder belly, that might come in handy. Although they are usually underfed in stores (if anything like Otos applies) and as such their bellies will be thin.

tetratech – A Hug

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As always great photos of an awesome tank and wonderful fish. Just out of curiousity, how much time to you spend weekly on maintaint this tank at this point?

Jim

---

Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

OldTimer,

Thank you so much for the input and the compliments.

These days, as I am not doing any major changes anymore (like replanting the whole tank as I did a few times so far), I would say I spend during the course of a week:

- daily 0.5 hours observing and wondering what can be changed = 3.5 hours per week
- Water change 1 hour to drain 60G and 20 min to refill, plus 10 min addition of stuff for the water (baking soda, equilibrium, and ferts) = 1.5 hours
- Before water change, maybe 1 hour pruning, if required, and glass cleaning = 1 hour
- Cleaning up the mess I made before and during water change = 1 hour
- Daily fert addition (additional 5 times a week) of 5 to 10 min = lets say 0.5 hours

So, without feeding and just maintenance, that gets me to 7.5 hours per week. That is actually not all that much when considering that there were days when I messed for 12 hours straight with the tank.

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Pearls won't bother the Espei at all. Mine doesn't even look crooked at the Hengali's. I doubt they'll even do much for the fry. They are not the fastest fish in the world. But they're always picking through plants looking for hydra etc so any eggs may not last long.

They'll settle in quickly enough. If they are stressed at all they immediately go to the darkest corner they can find. Once they settle in they are quite socialable.

I'd avoid SAE's unless you feel you have a "need" for them. They are ok when young but it doesn't take long for them to become more trouble then they're worth IMO. They will feast on your moss. When they figure out that some strange hand puts food in the tank, they get lazy and become fat, pooping, damaging nuisances.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Thanks for the input

The entries here are the first time that I heard that the SAE are not all good. I guess I should think more about them. As you probably know they were my solution for the remaining Thread Algae. I don’t have a lot of it, but certainly too much to be controlled by hand. How about some shrimp then?

All,

The earlier mentioned driftwood auction ends in about 10 hours and the piece currently stands at $81, plus $16 for shipping. That is quite a hefty price for a piece where one is only able to judge its quality from a picture. Any suggestions within the next few hours would be appreciated.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Most people don't associate SAEs as being preadatory, but they are, in fact, quite omnivorous, and feed on invertabrate life as well as decaying vegetation in the wild. Thus, the espei fry may not be safe from the SAE; just a speculation.

I'd avoid SAE's unless you feel you have a "need" for them. They are ok when young but it doesn't take long for them to become more trouble then they're worth IMO. They will feast on your moss. When they figure out that some strange hand puts food in the tank, they get lazy and become fat, pooping, damaging nuisances.
I think what Bensaf is saying here is bascially is that an SAE is not an Oto that will compliment that plants both in look(size) and function. The SAEs don't balance that way and are less gentile with plants, etc they are also fairly large waste producers.

My Scapes

Thats an awful lot for an unknown, LF, you're right. And if it's more than you're willing to deal with, your best bet is to let it go.

For what it's worth, at Absolutely Fish there's a big hunk of driftwood sitting in one of the big tanks in the back, takes up the entire length of a 55 gallon. Not as branchy as the one on ebay, but it is pretty nice.

---

Back in the saddle!

Thanks Cup_of_Lifenoodles and tetratech for the additional info and opinions on the SAE. I think I heard enough to hold off with any purchase on that fish until I really have no other options to control algae (and I think I have many before that happens ).

NowherMan6 – Thanks for the update on Ab. Fish. Are you sure you saw that this was one piece? I have been there last week and all I saw were a few rather chunky pieces. Sometimes they arrange them in a way that you either have to look really close or even have to pick up the piece to see that it is multiple. If it was one piece then I would be interested if you saw the price tag. Even smaller pieces in the show tanks go for $50 plus (up to $100 for a piece that was way too chunky and rather small).

The current price for the one on e-bay would be ok if one would know for sure that it is quality driftwood, but the seller doesn’t even list what type of wood it is. I guess I will make a last minute decision .

Thanks to all 3 of you again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well Ingo we were thinking of you at the weekend.

I met up with Paulus on Sat. We hit the market. We are both 6 ft tall, actually Paulus was taller then me which makes him a giant by Indonesian standards, neither of us could have reached the top of the driftwood pile if we tried.We mentioned you might be a bit green with envy if you could have seen it. Picked up a couple of nice pieces.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

]:|]:|]:|

Yeah yeah, are you having fun over there ?

I hope you picked up a bunch of red ants as well .

Well, at least you were thinking of me

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

[font color="#C00000"]ONE THOUSAND[/font]



Thanks to all that have participated and helped me so far to get this tank as to where it is now.

I really appreciate all the input.

I hope you will do the same for the next 1000,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF, you could always email the seller and ask him/ her, or ask him/ where the piece was found etc. if you have lingering doubts...



EDIT: Just saw the 1000th post... congrats LF! Though I can't imagine being able to go back through this log to bring up any old info, I'm glad it's all there. It's been great fun participating, even though i came in pretty late. Anyway, nice job in making sure YOURS was the 1000th post, and not some comment about ebay

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 09-Jan-2006 08:48

---

Back in the saddle!

Man, I am sooo busy at work that I cannot even celebrate the 1000th post. Thanks NowherMan6, I am glad I had I hit the button for the 1000th before you did .

BTW, the price of the wood at 2.6 hours before closing is now $91, that’s a total of $107. I don’t know


Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

No guts no glory!


Just messing around. I would way rather go pick a peice out in person than risk a cheap peice or not so cheap peice that all I saw was a picture. I am actually going to be on a DW hunt my self here when I get some cash.......some time soon I hope.......

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wingsdlc

I have to talk about the Pearls again and would like your input. They have been with me now I guess for over a month (at least). As of last night, so almost 2 days after adding them to this tank, the still react like they have never seen a human before when I approach the tank. They pretty much jump out of the water and then take a dive so fast that they hit the gravel and then they hide. They haven’t done that in the 20G. The female came out for feeding but the male stayed hidden (I saw him a while later, but he dive bombed again when I added the ferts).

Am I too worried? Could the transport from one tank in the room to the other have stressed them out more than the one from the LFS to my house?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Am I too worried

Um, yes.

You're such a good caretaker with these fish, I understand each and every one of them is like a little member of the LF clan, but give the pearls some time They've got a huge new environment to explore, in a week or so all will be well. Maybe moving them to them was like hitting their reset button. It'll all come down to when they recognize you as the bringer of food again

---

Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6,

I like the notion of the LF Clan, although I certainly am not able anymore to identify each and every fish I have .

Yeah, for most of the time in the 20G feeding was all I did to the tank, except for the weekly water change. Here they are exposed to daily fert addition disturbances as well. Maybe the 20G Long also wasn’t high enough for their crash dives .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All things considered they don't seem like they're doing too bad. Certainly not the shyest fish I've ever owned - at least they let you take pictures of them, when I first got my brevis pair I couldnt get a clean pic for 2 weeks.

It's been a little while since we saw a full tank shot - any rescaping plans on the horizon?

---

Back in the saddle!

The latest full tank shot is on page 39, you might have skipped that page because it was filled up too quickly

The pics there are from this weekend, so that is as new as it can be.

Any rescaping? - yes, I guess so

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

this thread has moved on a bit, taken ages catch up with it, i've been away for 10 days, fun reading beats my revision which i should be doing

very nice tank photos, glad the gourami move went ok.

i've had to delay my setup for few weeks, we decided to decorate the living room before filling up the tank, easier then moving it all once setup.

really hope i can get mine to look half as good as yours.

shekoi

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

shekoi,

Thanks for the comments

Yeah, I guess redoing the room is better done before a tank is set up, wise decision.

And don't worry, you tank will look better than "1/2 as good as mine" as I think mine isn't all that great.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gang,

I just remembered some of the other fish I initially intended to add to the tank. Besides various groups of tetras there was a type of Rainbow that I would be interested in:

Melanotaenia praecox – Dwarf Neon Rainbow

I have seen them at the LFS and somehow can’t believe that the max length suggested in our profile of less than 2 inches is correct. The ones in the store already seemed bigger.

I like them because of the blue appearance and the red frame created by the fins.

Another one I like is Pseudomugil furcatus - Forktail Blue-Eye Rainbow.

Any input on these two, as well as any other suggestion for similar shaped and colored Rainbows is greatly appreciated. Size should not exceed 4 inches though (as I am LITTLE_FISH ).

Thanks in advance,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The dwarf blue rainbows would probably get up to 3 inches or so. I really like them too. As soon as some nice ones come into work I plan on snaching a few up for my planted tank.

Some other rainbows....

Threadfin
Celebes

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

That picture really doesn't do the threadfins justice. They are a much prettier fish than that. I like all 4 of those rainbows. That would be a tough chooice to make. I personally like the furcatas myself they are pretty neat little buggers.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I know what you mean about the Threadfins. We had a couple of tanks of them at work in some crappy lighting. When I scooped them out for some people they looking really nice.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I'd definately go for the Praecox. I've had a few for while. They are a nice fish. I'd say 2 inches is the max. They look bigger when they get older as they take on the typical rainbow compressed look.

They are a peaceful shoaling fish, tough and very very playful. Slow growing. They take a while to mature but are worth the wait. They color up well when older. As I say a big group is very playful always dancing and displaying to one another. They even organise race meets

I think these would be ideal for your tank. Nice color, the size means you can keep a biggish group. Most other likes Boesmanii get a fair bit bigger.

Threadfins would probably get lost in your tank. Furcatas are a bit fussy. These ones are not really my cup of tea, looks wise, too frilly all those fancy fins.

The Praecox have a simple subtle beauty and is like having a group of puppies in the tank without being hyper like Danios or nippy like Barbs.

Here's a pic of one of mine, about a year and a half old, the colors are quite striking.




bensaf attached this image:


Last edited by bensaf at 10-Jan-2006 22:47[/font]

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

go with the dwarfs!! i've got four females at the moment. the picture above is of a male - red fins females have yellow.

mine shoal with the H.rasbora it makes a great looking shoal - i've had mine for over a year now and they are 2-2.5inches max.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

All,

Thanks so much for the input, and Bensaf – what a great picture!

My LFS had Threadfins and they are in good shape. I have considered them at some point but then decided against them as their fragile appearance somehow conflicts with the rest of my fish , the gentle fish role is already taken by the Pearls.

Celebes are similar to Threadfins (with regards to fragile appearance) and require in general a higher ph range than the other options.

If Bensaf is right about the Furcatas being fuzzy, then Dwarfs it is.

Now, how many though? I was thinking 6, 2 males and 4 females. I know about the fin color distinction, but I don’t know if this is visible in juveniles already.

Thanks again,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 11-Jan-2006 04:10

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

i started with 2male and 4 females - my males didn't survive the move from my parents house earlier last year for unknown reason. when i brought mine they were less then 1in and the fins were the different colours so i was able to choose the ratio i wanted - they bred with in a couple of months but the eggs were eaten by the rasbora and angel and the rainbows themselfs had feast before i could do anything.

in a tank your size i would go for 3 males and 5/6 females that would make a lovely shoal.

shekoi

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

shekoi,

Thanks for the info on the ability to sex juveniles.

When suggesting numbers though keep in mind that I have about 100 Espei . So just the rainbows would add another 9. When will I be overstocked (a few other pairing fish should still follow this round of stocking)?

Also, I will have to house them in the 20G QT first and I don't want to add too many there at once. Should I stack them in 2 stages, first 1m and 2f or something like that?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

i've wanted the neon dwarf rainbows for ages never seem to fine them near me - i might look online to get some.

LF very nice tank well done

LF

100 what a shoal that must be!

is the Q tank cycled or do you set it up each time you get new fish?

go with 4 females first then get others after week or so, this should also help females settle better as wont be stressed by males wanting to get busy!

i think in 125g you would be ok with 9 dwarfs, because of all the plants you have etc, but it's up to you if don't want to risk overstocking go with 2M and 4F - probably soon have fry anyway.

shekoi

Newfishboy - try TriMar they sometimes stock dwarfs and they have good rep for delivering heathly fish.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

newfishboy – Thanks for the compliment on the tank

shekoi – If you ever get bored, and I mean really bored, then skim through the previous 40 pages of this log . Here you will find information on how this group of 100 Espei (by approximation) came to be, accompanied by various pictures of them as individuals and in groups.
The QT (that would be [link=This Tank]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/63901_3.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] here) is permanently cycled and planted as well. It houses 5 Platies (actually 6 by now as one fry of the latest batch survived) as permanent residents. Your suggestion of getting the 4 females first sounds good. But, how will 2 males only behave in the QT, with no other fish of the same species to bother?

And more fry? – gee, what am I gonna do with them ?

Thanks,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I dream of a shoal like yours - nice photos got them trained to hold still, i've never been able to get good photo of my rasbora.

the males should be ok on their own - they are young and if only for week or so then that should be fine.

now you've give me an idea - i need a Q tank setup full time, with plants and fish - really an excuse to have another tank she would kill me] i usually setup the Q tank week or so before fish i'm buying with water and filter from my 40g always worked for me - might setup 10g again and use it as Q tank - LF you got me thinking now i'll never get any work done.

shekoi.

ps i'm bored most days - hard life being student.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

ps i'm bored most days - hard life being student.

shekoi,

I used to understand what you are talking about but I really messed things up this semmester. 7 classes, 17 credit hours, 25-30 hours of work a week doesn't leave too much time for fish. Which I have to say bites!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

shekoi,

Glad I could help you getting that brain going

I have to say that I am not a fan of a 1 week QT treatment. If I use the QT then I want to do it right, at least 3 weeks, better even more (4+). While one week will most likely be enough to detect Ich and similar illnesses, slow moving parasitic invasions can take a bit longer (can be used as an excellent argument when explaining your significant other why you “need” another tank).

Yeah, I make about 50 shots to get one good one of the Espei, very elusive little critters that always tend to take a quick dart forward right when you push that button. The easiest way to capture them is during the water change, when only 50% of water is left and there is nowhere to go for them .

Thanks for the indirect compliments on the QT,

Ingo

Wings – hang in there

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Not much to say these days as I am too busy at work.

Maybe this weekend I will get a chance to go to the LFS and look at some Rainbows, any last minute suggestion on particular illnesses (like the Pearl's potential for internal parasites) you would like to share?

Or how about any external signs of weakness that are specific to Rainbows?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Bensaf this pic from ADG has nothing on yours. That is a dazzling pic of your rainbow.







tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

wow tetratech,

That is a great shot, although Bensaf's is clearer. What a nice schooling formation. I am sold on them

Thanks for this last piece of evidence I needed to convince myself that this is the right fish

Except is someone tells me they are e to (insert any bad stuff here) .

Ingo

EDIT: Let me see if I get that right: They are all boys, right?

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 13-Jan-2006 07:13

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I fiqured you would like the pic since your considering the fish.

My Scapes

LF,

Right on brother! All males!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Never had problems with Rainbows. I've had mine almost from the get go, oldest fish I have. They are quite hardy and haven't been overbred like a lot of other tropicals.

If they have young uns in the store they'll be a lot more slender, they get the typical rainbow humps much later, and quite grey. Don't let this put you off they color up as they mature, especially the fins.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi

I have been quietly following this tank log from the start and I just wanted to say, not only is your tank looking amazing, but you are clearly a gifted photographer! There are some spectacular shots in here, and I especially like the ones of the ottos on page 39!

Keep up the good work!

Thanks all for the additional comments:

- Bensaf on the Rainbow status. Yes, I have seen them many times in the LFS and your description of them being gray and slender is what I observed as well. For some reason this never turned me off as I have seen pictures (albeit none as pretty as the 2 presented in this log) showing them in “better light”.

- Wings for letting me know that I can sex them, although it would be nice to see how a female looks in comparison.

- foj1428 for the compliments on the tank and my pictures. The tank, well I have to give some credit to all the people here that helped to get it there. The pictures, the credit here goes more then partially to the camera itself and for the close-ups to NowherMan6 who suggested just the right lens for that purpose. I appreciate that you read through this sometimes messy (as in funny, at least for some of us) thread, thanks.

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Please don't let the photo compliments change you. I still consider you an aquarist first and a photo buff second. Pictures and planted tanks what a perfect combination.

My Scapes

Please don't let the photo compliments change you

Don’t worry about that, I am too old to change

I always like to take nice pictures and a nice looking plant/fish in the tank is just the right object for it . So logically, no nice tank and no nice fish = no nice picture. Ergo, I have to be a scaper / fish keeper foremost.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I always like to take nice pictures and a nice looking plant/fish in the tank is just the right object for it .

A blonde supermodel draped across the hood in a bikini wouldn't hurt either

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Whenever I try to convince a super model to pose for me they run away screaming for help. They just don’t want to dive in my tank, I don’t know why.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club