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Setup 1

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Configuration No1, 44 x 16 x 15

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Setup 2

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Configuration No2, 43 x 17 x 18.5

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Setup 3

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Configuration No3, 42 x 16 x 16

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Setup 4

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Configuration No4, 44 x 17 x 16

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Setup 5

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Configuration No5, 37 x 16 x 16.5

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Last, Setup 6

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Configuration No6, 45 x 17 x 16.5

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Well,

I am soaking it now in the tub and as expected it doesn't sink. We will see how long it takes until it stays under by itself. The big piece is still too big to be submersed completely and I let the skinny branches stick out.

Ingo

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Wood on a Dive

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Maybe you have this going on but I would put the biggest parts of the drift wood in the back of the tank and have the branches sticking out as much as posible to the front of the tank. It is just kind of hard to picture everything through pictures. (if that made any sence)



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

And so it begins...

I'm partial to either 5 or 6.

I had a feeling it wouldn't sink on its own, to keep it down you may need to work creatively with some rocks. Since a lot of the wood will be covered in plants you can probably get away with keeping a rock sitting on top of the base of each piece. It'll also help if you bury each one an inch or so down in the substrate. The brancy parts of it will make the effect, not so much the bases, so it's OK to have a big rock sitting on each one. Heck, you can even work those rocks into the new 'scape. The important thing right now is to clean that sucker with some bleach solution.

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Back in the saddle!

Right one with #5 I didn't see it that way before but if you turn them so the branches are coming at you that would be cool. At least that's how I see it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Can't say I really like any of the configurations

Not keen on the way they meet like a bridge. I prefer wood to be poking at at angles.

You can use rocks to hold it down or even as support for the wood to lean on to create different angles for the branches.

You really won't get a feel for it until you try playing around with it in the tank. The planting will radically alter the shape of the wood.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks guys for trying ,

I can only imagine how hard it must be to judge the layout from pictures only; I don't even know how to position it when I hold it in my hands. Here are some more thoughts, randomly I may add:

- Wings, I can't have the braches coming forward, the wood is too long for this
- Yeah, I can see that I will have to use the rocks to hold it down, another design issue to consider (nice large rocks)
- the smaller element is probably too insignificant to make an impact by itself, that's why I tried to include it in the main group (rather than having it placed in the tank by itself with a gap to the big branch)
- One worry is that any layout which has the branches point straight up will disappear in the vegetation. I think that branch width and direction might be too similar to my plants and the whole thing wouldn't make a statement anymore
- Bensaf is right on with the statement that I will see how it looks once it is in the tank. And exactly that was the reason why I predicted that this will be the biggest overhaul ever, even bigger than the initial setup. I cannot have most plants still rooted and try to adjust the wood so it looks good with them, I think it should be the other way around, the plants should support the wood. As such most of the plants will have to be uprooted before placement can begin

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

lovely pieces of wood.

i'd go for setup 5 it looks more like a root system and will look very natural once all the plants are growing around it - look great with 100 little fish swimming around the branches.

i've never seen a piece like that before the closest i came was the one i've got which i more like a stump towards yours.


are you intending to remove most of your plants and then start again after the wood has gone in?

good luck with reaquascapping?

what is it with us hobbists - we design a tank set it up think thats great - few months later we want to change it my girlfriend could never understand that?

where did you get the wood from - i looked through post - just to many pages now.

shekoi

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

shekoi,

Thanks for the input and the compliments on the wood (from hell).

I got it of eBay, I challenged NowherMan6 to find me a nice piece (as they always teased me with my lack of hardscape) and 10 minutes later he linked me up with this one. What can I say, 5 days later and after paying a fortune, I owned that sucker .

Yes, I am afraid I will have to uproot most of my plants when adding the wood. I guess I will have to take a day off from work to do it, my wife will not give me another 12 hour break on a weekend any time soon.

Ingo

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Yes, I am afraid I will have to uproot most of my plants when adding the wood

Is there a doctor in the house?

My Scapes

A doctor ? Why would I need a doctor ?

I am not planning on pulling a muscle when uprooting the plants.

Come to think of it though, I might bang my head against the wall a couple of times in frustration .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Come to think of it though, I might bang my head against the wall a couple of times in frustration

I can't help but feel at least partially responsible for the madness that's about to take place...

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,



Well, don't be surprised if I call you up in case of an emergency during the "change", given that you don't live too far away. And we might even be able to lure tetratech from his island for this operation (if he dares to enter Joisey land) .

No seriously, you did a great job pointing me to this nice piece. Even if all goes wrong, don't feel guilty at all, I am the one who want to put it in.

Ingo

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Oh my...
Those are lovely pieces of wood, and I actually think that layout 2 or 5 would allow you to keep the most jungle-look in the tank.
You are clearly already aware of the HUGE ordeal it's going to be to add the wood and arrange the plants around it, but I thought I would add a few ideas and considerations.

When I tried adding a big piece of wood that wouldn't sink, I really hated the idea of using rocks to keep it down. Now, I was starting from scratch, so I had an easier time of it, but I found that a good unobtrusive way of keeping floating wood down was to tie a long bit of fishing line to a heavy-duty suction cup, and stick the suction cup to the bottom of the tank, then tie the long ends of the fishing line around the wood in the position that I wanted it to be in. Now, since you already have your substrate down, I don't know if this is a feasable solution, but it worked really well for me.

I can't imagine that you do much gravel vacuming with all that plant mass in there, but I noticed that a whole lot of fish waste and uneaten food would collect right under the wood in the crevaces where wood meets gravel, and I think this contributed to some water quality issues with my cories that used that wood to hide under. Just something to bear in mind...

Your plants look so great. I hope you feel it's worth all the work you've been putting into this tank.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

illustrae,

What a nice entry , thank you so much.

As you already stated, it is probably not a good idea to add a suction cup to this tank. I would have to dig through an average substrate height of about 6 inches, and in the process disturb all the Laterite down there. My tank has currently quite a large group of rocks (which one cannot see anymore) and maybe I can use them gracefully to hold the wood down. Right now it is still soaking in the tub and I will keep it in there as long as I can (means until the wife threatens with divorce ).

Good point with the waste that might collect where wood and gravel meet. I will have to keep that in mind. The problem here is that, at least at the current stage of the tank, I wouldn't even be able to see that area as it is planted so tightly.

And I do feel it is worth putting in all this work. Actually, although it is work, I see it as an exciting part of the hobby. I think I like the road to success as least as much as the success itself. And if all goes wrong, what is the worst that can happen? I start all over again and that would be exciting as well.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Actually, although it is work, I see it as an exciting part of the hobby. I think I like the road to success as least as much as the success itself. And if all goes wrong, what is the worst that can happen? I start all over again and that would be exciting as well.

That's the one thing all these logs have in common: We never get to the point where we say, OK, looks good, I'll leave it as it is. There's always a new plant to try, another rock or piece of DW to add, another species of fish to look into. It makes it fun and it's very much part of the hobby. And as you correctly pointed out, what's the worst that can happen if things go wrong? You start all over again relive the fun of setting up.


Well, that and divorce, for the married set...

(Hooray for being 23!)

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Back in the saddle!

Should be on a T-Shirt


"The hubby/wife said he'd/she'd leave me if I set-up one more fish tank in the house...
Boy am I gonna miss him/her!
Yippee more room for more tanks!"

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Good point with the waste that might collect where wood and gravel meet.

Peronally I've never had a problem and I have alot of dw and rock in my tank but then again LF you don't have a grounds crew. "One reaction leads to another"

My Scapes

good luck with the operation - i understand the wife problems - i've already had to get rid of two tanks but least she let me have my new 72gallon shes always moaning when i spend hours on water changes and aquascapping - they just don't understand. you never know she might even help out

what about the fish? are you going to leave them in?

i always worry about my ottos when i reaquascape you never know where they all are.

can't wait see the pictures of you operation!

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

you never know she might even help out

Yeah, I don't think so .

I will have to keep the fish in the tank, I don't have another container or whatever that could hold 100 fishies for hours (and keep them warm). Plus, it would take me about an hour just to catch them all .

The wood is, oh surprise, not sinking yet. The water in the tub was a light brown so quite a few tannis are leaking out. I gave it a scrub last night and refilled the tub with fresh water. I also observed some of the white fluffy stuff that grows on wood when freshly submersed.

The "Operation" will not start for a while, probably at least not until the weekend following the coming weekend. I am too busy at work right now.

In addition, I am considering of trading about 30 Espei at the LFS. I think I have too many now. They don't really school all that much anymore as no matter where they go some others will be there already . Maybe one of you would like to have them, I sell them for cheap (compared to the $4 they cost at my LFS), but no shipping, pickup only.

Ingo

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just writing a nice little reply and the computer crashes

can't remember what i was writing now.

What you going to exchange you fish for? or do you get credit of some sorts - at my LFS i get half the sale price of the fish - so in your case get about $60 not bad

i'm getting used to my camara now - hopfully i can train my fish to stand still long enough to get a good photo like yours.
i've posted some on my log
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/12949.4.htm?83#

Have any idea what the snail is? i've had him for years must have come in on a plants.

do you have any problems with snails in the 125G? i try and check all the plants no - but it is hard to do.

just remebered what i was writing not even that informative - when i was soaking my roots i noticed that there were slight little cracks and holes which were filled with air - so by moving the pieces around releasing the air - helpped it sink quicker.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

When you are rinsing and such are you using hot water? This will help the wood open up and trap in water.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Getting it to stay completely down with no help could take weeks, even months. A rock is the best bet at this point, and can be worked into the aquascape as well. Win-win situation.

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks guys,

Yeah, I am refilling the tub with rather hot water in the hope that it will open the pores (just like people's skin).

NowherMan6 - it takes quite a big rock to keep the main piece from floating. Currently I use 2 to hold it down in the tub.

Shekoi - Yeah, I have snails in my 125G, none of which has been added intentionally. There are ramshorn, trumpet, and pond snails. When I do my weekly water change I pick them up when I get the chance, otherwise I leave them alone. I don't think there are too many yet. I think I would like to exchange the 30 Espei for some more Rainbows . It is nice that you get half the selling price, my main LFS is a little cheaper, they sell them for $4 and indicated (and not even that is for sure) that they would give me $1 for each. I might have to inquire at other LFSs and see what they would give me.

Ingo

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Ingo, at least you're getting something for your fish. None of the three LFS that I frequently visit give me anything for fish that I bring them. Last week I had to do a lot of fast talking for them to accept the three angels that I brought them. Getting 1$ a piece is pretty nice IMO.

Your wood will take a long time before it'll sink. Warm water won't make much of a difference I'm afraid, wood pores don't really work that way, they're fixed structures. The best way to do it fast would be to boil the wood. By boiling you make the air expand so much that it will force itself out of the wood, allowing water to enter and occupy those pockets. However, with a piece the size of what you're having there it may be rather difficult to find a big enough pan

Thanks Dr. for the input,

Yeah, I sure would need some big kettle to boil that sucker .

But seriously, I actually heard that boiling wood is not a good idea. Supposedly it destroys the cell structure of the wood and the consequence would be a much faster disintegration in the tank.

Ingo

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I suppose boiling wood can do a little bit of damage, but it won't be terribly much. We're talking about dead lignified cells that basically just consist of cell wall material, which is mostly cellulose and lignin. These polymers are very resistant to heat. I've always boiled pieces of bogwood that I've had in my tanks. Some of those I inherited from my grandfather, who had them in his tank for many years, and he had boiled them as well. I've never had a piece fall apart on me or rot. If it indeed does increase the speed of breakdown, then we're still talking about decades I think, longer than any setup of a tank will ever exist.

LF,

If worse comes to worse I have something we can boil it in. You just have to take a trip to MI to do it. By the time you get back home it will be full of air again for sure!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

Sounds like a plan

Let's try to make this the most expensive piece of driftwood (in $ per pound) ever to be added to a tank. Purchase cost plus a vacation in MI .

I haven't had too much time to check on the wood for 2 days now and when I looked at it last night I saw the the discoloration of the water is rather minimal. That gives me some hope that it has been in the water for a while in its past.

Ingo

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LF,

Umm yeah... just let me know and I will get the giant pot ready with some fire wood!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well, without many words,

I did it, for better or worse.

It took 7 hours , quite a few water changes, lots of fiddling with plants, and what not.

QUESTION: I have Narrow leaf Ludwigia, lots of dwarf sags / chain swords, more crypt retrospiralis, Xmas moss, red rubin sword, and a red melon sword still in the water buckets. SHOULD I ADD ANY OF THESE, AND WHERE? I will dispose of the around 10AM tomorrow morning, my time (US East).

Here are 8 pictures, not many words though, I will write more tomorrow. No1, tank before change:

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Before

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No2, Quite a few plants have been removed, the water quality is going downhill:

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First Round of Plant Removal

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No3, A lot of plants gone by now, I am worried how the fish will handle this soup:

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More Plants Gone

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No4, Only the Apons and Cyperus are left, a few vacuuming sessions later.

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Little Left

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No5, The wood has been added, took quite a while and many curses until it was in place:

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Introducing the Wood

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No6, Partial water change to up the water quality, filter was also rinsed (not too much though, bacteria - I know). The Apon had to go to, didn't like it anymore:

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Water Change

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No7, Tank is refilled, more rocks are added. Do you see all the Espei :

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Hardware in Place

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No8, and last for now. The tank is fully planted, except if you have some info and then I could add it tomorrow. I am intending to try my luck with hair grass in the front again, but I will have to get it first. I will go to sleep now, let me know what you think (even if you don't like it )

Ingo

Attached Image:

All Done

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Wow, I love the new drift wood and rock formations. Keep us posted on the tank.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

Hey, looks awesome. Hope your fish enjoy the new scenery.

Chaos

__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

The driftwoods look great, Ingo. I prefer the new look, much cleaner. I think you need more red plants though - the macaranda look too prominent as the only red plants. Maybe put the ludwidgia (I assume those were the reddish plants in the middle in the "before" pic) on the back right side (behind the driftwood & anubias).

I can't remember what your red swords look like, but I would try putting one on the far left corner, in front of the lone rock (instead of the few grassy plants - cyperus?). Maybe plant the dwarf sags on the front right corner, in front of the rock?

Anyways, looking good!

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-P

Hey Ingo, it sure is a lovely piece of wood, and I think you've found the best orientation for is as well. I love the way the roots are sticking upwards at odd angles, but why did you put it so right in the middle? It looks good, but in my opinion it would have looked even better if you had put it slightly off-center to the left. Now it forces your eyes to the center of the tank, and leaves the sides a little as an after thought. If you move it a bit to the left it will create a focal point on that side and leaves the right side of the tank open for other interesting stuff. Nice work in any case, in a couple of weeks it should be possible to remove that big rock, or alter its orientation a little

Thanks everybody for the input

Paulus - Thanks for the drawings and your ideas. Here are the problems I have with the options you gave me:

- The red rubin is currently 3/4 of the tank height and takes up quite some ground real estate as well. I think it would be too big in the left front (twice as big as you were drawing it). The plants in front of that rock are sags.
- The Ludwigia could look nice there, but a) the tank is not deep enough for a group of plants behind the Anubias in the right back, b) the plants would get shaded by the Retrospiralis and slowly die off, and c) I thought I try an all green (besides a few wendtiis that one cannot see in the total shot) with one shockingly red area (silly me).
- The sags in my tank tend to grow rather big and would quickly make the rock (on the right) behind them meaningless and hidden.

I will take a closer look this morning and see what can be done.


Dr. - Grrr, you are right, the wood is in the middle. I didn't intend to make the branch group the center point of the layout, the group to its right is supposed to be the center. Ohlala, what to do? It is impossible for me to move it now, except if I am going to uproot quite a few plants again. Maybe I can wait until the wood stays down by itself and then take action, getting it in place was almost an act of violence .

The idea was that the pearl grass on the right of the wood would create a lower valley towards the Cyperus in the back. I guess by adding the Macandra to the left I managed to make this group almost meaningless, although I put a lot of detail in it (will show closeups later today - have to make the pictures first).

Maybe I go for tetratech's random chaos layout (not that he has that, but he mentioned Amano has something like that).

It never ends

Ingo

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good job -hope you had fun

doesn't your tank make that bogwood look small? in the tub it looked huge now can hardly see it.

how long did it take you in total?

i'd let the plants you have in recover and spread out again before deciding what else to end - but do need something in the forground.

did you catch any of the espei to sell on?

are your ottos ok didn't throw any out by accident?

Karl.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

The wood looks good. It is a little centered but if it's major work to move it I wouldn't bother.

The Cyperus is a beautiful plant I'd probably prefer it behind the rocks but again if it's a headache to move It loks good where it is.

The Macrandra does look out of place mainly because it's out on it own. If it had more green behind and beside it, that wouldn't be so noticeable. It may work better in the spot where the pearlgrass is , but then you'd have to keep it a bit lower so it doesn't block the view of the Cyperus.

Keep the Rubin. I'd but it at the far right beside between the Cyperus and the Retro and behind the big Anubias there. Alternately it you move the the R.Macrandra put the Rubin where that is now. It'll balance out the reds a bit.

You are going to need a big bold species of stem plant that will make a statement and anchor the scope. Ideally that will go at either the location where the MAcrandra is or the location where the cyperus is. Depend which way you want to go. I've mentioned a few species before - Aromatica, Ammania, Stellata Broadleaf, Ludwigia Cuba. Something nig and brassy that you can build around.

The front left needs Crypts preferably something like Red Wendtii. The color and leaf shape will balance out the grassy sags etc.

Did you chuck all the moss ? The wood could do with some aging.

That part where the big rock is hold ing down the wood - fill it and cover up the structure with Narrow Leaf Fern or Wendelov. Again the darker more horizontal look will offset the vertical grassy types. Alternately a big dark Anubias Coffeefolia.

It's on the way. A few small details needed. Need to make the forground more interesting . I'm sure I'll think of more later.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Thanks boss

- yup, moving the wood is a PITA. The wife had to close the door to the basement so the kids don't hear me cursing
- The Cyperus, after all this time that it is in the tank already, has just gotten established (takes a long time to do so, as you mentioned way back when I got it). So it has to stay
- Macandra in front of the Cyperus sounds like a plan, I will give it a go in 30 min (lights on for fishies)
- Red Rubin in the spot where the Macandra is now sounds good too, I will add some more green grasses (Retro, I guess) besides (behind) it as it is not big enough to fill the whole spot
- Bold Stems: I still have 3 of the crippled Althernanthera that I couldn't identify. They are currently in front of the Macandra and invisible as they blend right in. Maybe I can make them grow better, now that they actually get propper light
- The front left has a crypt wendtii, red . It just doesn't show in the picture as it is too small (maybe 10 leaves) because it had been covered by dwarf sags / chain swords in the past (and Glosso).
- Yup, chucked all the moss. I think the wood looks great without it and I have enough of putting it on rocks. Major pain on pruning because all hardscape cannot easily removed for that purpose (big mess each time). I found moss in all plants from pruning cuttings
- There is not much space left in front of that giant rock to keep the wood in place. I might have to wait to finalize that aread until this rock can be replaced by a smaller rock.
- Foreground more intersting: Given that I place the Macandra in the spot where the Pearl Grass is now I will use that to plant a "lawn" of it in the front . Might not work too well, but I think it is worth a try. If not, I thought about hair grass.

Thanks again Bensaf,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Shekoi,

Sorry, only now saw your entry, thanks

It took SEVEN hours, from 10 AM to 5PM. I know this would have been the perfect opportunity to catch the Espei, but there was no time and I also have to check with the LFS first to see if and when they would like them. I thought about it, but I had to focus on one task at a time .

About the Otos: yeah, I got very worried as I found only 5 out of 6. I thought one might be in a plant bucket, but eventually found him/her munching on a Cyperus leaf (the only plant not removed from the tank during the process. So, all are accounted for .

I agree on no major moves at this time (except the ones mentioned above), besides the fact that I got to hear it from the wife anyway as I neglected my parential duties for yet another day.

And I agree on the foreground as well

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

So this is what you were going all day yesterday Remind me how you got your wife to allow another Saturday of tank work...


My comments aren't as rich and plentiful as the others, but my two points:

1.) Just to echo the need for different stem plant groupings - it seems there's so much grassiness going on there, some different leaf shapes in prominent spots I think would help out

2.) IMO the wood is fine where it is. On the one hand, I can see what others are saying - it feels like if you pulled it to the left 5 inches it would be so much better. But after looking at it the hardscape structure itself - the wood plus rocks - is off center, so it doesn't look awkward. My eye tends to see it the latter way now, so it looks good in my book

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Back in the saddle!

K,

Updated as discussed above. No more replanting today, the wife calls on my childcare duties .

Here is the tank,is it better now? Detail shots much later in the day (evening). Can you see some fishies ?

Ingo

Attached Image:

Latest Update

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Hey Little_Fish,

My fish reaction is WOW, what a difference. Now you have a good base to work with and you could fine-tune from here.
Yeah the DW grouping could have been alittle more off center, but I also believe you could work with it where it is. Yes more red would be nice, with just one red grouping it might pull your eye to that spot and conflict with the wood.

I have to give you alot of credit. It must have been difficult to tear the tank down, but it definitely paid off.

My Scapes

Sorry last one was quick. Wife was screaming dinner ready !

- Bold Stems: I still have 3 of the crippled Althernanthera that I couldn't identify. They are currently in front of the Macandra and invisible as they blend right in. Maybe I can make them grow better, now that they actually get propper light

Reineckii is a nice plant, but I find it too bold and dark to be used in big quantities. Looks best behind bright greenery poking ouy the top in a tight bunch -dramtic. But needs to be tall.
Yep 2 reds together never works.

- The front left has a crypt wendtii, red . It just doesn't show in the picture as it is too small (maybe 10 leaves) because it had been covered by dwarf sags / chain swords in the past (and Glosso).

It'll grow taller with more light. Get more to fill out that far left front area. Maybe mix in some green types or different shapes like Willissi or Becketti. A big grove.

- There is not much space left in front of that giant rock to keep the wood in place. I might have to wait to finalize that aread until this rock can be replaced by a smaller rock.

That's why I was suggesting a fern. No need to worry about space.Plonk it on the wood or between the wood and rock. It will hide the fact that the rock is holding the wood down, so you can forget about it. The narrow leaf will give a nice horzontal shape to counter all the vertical grasses. Ferns are great for giving a sense of structure and depth. Having a couple of specimens of about the same size but at different heights gives a wonderful look.You can have one bunch where the rock is holding down the wood and then another bunch higher up -just wedge it in the v where a branch splits for example.

- Foreground more intersting: Given that I place the Macandra in the spot where the Pearl Grass is now I will use that to plant a "lawn" of it in the front . Might not work too well, but I think it is worth a try. If not, I thought about hair grass.

Foregrounds are very hard to too (probably why so many resort to the simple carpet).
What I mean is a few smaller structures to counter the larger main wood and rocks. Adds depth and interest.
What you've got at the moment is plant-small gap-rock-small gap-plant-small gap etc. Bigger but fewer gaps would work better.Tighten things up at the fron, don't be afraid of a few big open areas.
Example:you've got a few anubias scattered around. I'd be tempted to bring them all together in one area near the front and build a mound of them (you can use small rocks to support)maybe a few small river rocks scttered in front or to the side of this planting. Intersting little features like this with open ground between them will give added interest, a sense of order and depth.

Take a while look at the tank and try to visualize little areas of interest you can create.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Just saw the new pic. Much better The macrandra works better with the green behind it and the rubin balance the color. Looks much more co-hesive now.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I LOVE the tank's new look. It is not so much a jungle anymore. I like bensaf's advice on the anubias, it seems to have much more impact when grouped together rather than scattered. As things grow out again, more areas of interest will appear as well I think. Looks good! If it's alright with you I'd like to send before and after pics to my cousin, she wants a fish tank with live plants after she moves and is collecting ideas. I've sent her the link to this site and shown her your thread as well. All she had to say was WOW!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Weekly Tank Update - Week 19

Well, the title is rather wrong as I am not going to post past and current full tank shots, the events of this weekend overshadow any normal weekly update by far. The changes performed are dramatic and their outcome makes me feel like I want to introduce you to more details of the new layout. I think that a total shot (you can see it on the previous page of this log) does not reveal the details that this design offers.

But one thing about the general change: Plants that have been removed from the design are - Ludwigia Repens, Xmas Moss, Apons, and the Red Melon Sword, good by .

Now to the entries between my last one and this:

tetratech - Thanks my friend, an almost unconditional compliment from one of my scaping buddies is a rare event, I will have a beer in your honor. Yes, it was mentally very difficult for me to tear down the tank, I honestly can say that I was scared and very worried that I will create nothing but a big mess.

NowherMan6 - Yeah, that was what I did all day yesterday . How did I manage that my wife gives me the time for that - Well, I am sure I will have to pay her back for it one way or another. The start were my child duties today, but I am certain that many more chores will follow.

Bensaf - As you suggested, I will take my time to evaluate additional options. Right now I am just glad the tank is still running.

luvmykrib - Thanks for the compliments. Sure you can send the pictures to your cousin, with a few conditions of course: a) no additional publishing and b) she will have to sign a contract that she is going to read the whole thread which will be followed by a multiple choice quiz about it (just kidding, at least for point b). About the Anubias mountain (and this counts for Bensaf as well): I think you overestimate the size of the tank. Each one of my Anubias takes up quite some significant real estate. If I would put these 5 together I would think that I need at least a quarter of the entire tank just for them. Even if it is a good idea, it would have to wait as I am tired of major changes (for this week).

Anyway, hold your breath as the next 20 entries will be tank pictures. I hope I will not bore you to death.

Thanks for all the support, I could have done it without you folks.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The first picture was taken during the replant. It shows the enormous and entangled root system of the Crypt Retrospiralis. It took me a good 20 minutes just to separate individual plants from this block.

Attached Image:

Retrospiralis Mess

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Another shot from the replant. Can you say Espei ?

Attached Image:

Loads of Espei

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Here is another photo from yesterday, showing the Espei Autobahn (German highway, in case you don't know what that is - no speed limit ).

Attached Image:

Autobahn

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Now a 3 picture series of the tank, just to show some more details and their relationship to the tank. Here is the left side. I bet you that you cannot distinguish between Retrospirals and Narrow leaf Sags, they are mixed with each other. Also, the new position of the Red Rubin Sword is shown.

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Left Side

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Here is the middle, with Sword, Star Grass, and Cyperus in the back.

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Middle Shot

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Here is the right, with its new focus plant – Rotala Macandra.

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Right Shot

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An even closer look at the center, with the wood and the Jersey Star Grass (right tetratech? )

Attached Image:

Center

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And a close-up of the Red Rubin Sword, in front of it you can see the 3 saved Althernanthera stems, I just cannot let go of them.

Attached Image:

Red Rubin

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All the way in front of the Sword is this lineup, some Pearl Grass, 2 Crypt Wendtiis, and a sag.

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Front Part

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Here you see more of the right front corner. I gave the Isoetes Lacustris more of a visible position. More Pearl Grass and 2 Green Wendtiis complete that section.

Attached Image:

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Here is the Crypt Wendtii in the left corner, actually - I guess it is a green one. Maybe it will color up now that it gets some light.

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Front Left

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A close-up of the Rotala Macandra group.

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Macandra

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A close-up of the 3 saved Althernanthera stems.

Attached Image:

Althernanthera

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The Anubias Barteri on the left, you can see that it is getting another flower (again). See the bubbles? I observed that all flowers of the Anubias do that before they open. I find it interesting as such a behavior is usually associated with an injured part of a plant.

Attached Image:

Anubias Barteri

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A close-up of the Isoetes Lacustris.

Attached Image:

Isoetes

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For all Oto fans, a nice shot of an Oto inspecting the new driftwood.

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Oto 1

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And here again, I guess there must be food on it already.

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Oto 2

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And for the Harlequin fans, here are two colored up males fighting for dominance (in front of the Jersey Star Grass).

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Who's the Man?

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And here is the winner. Compare his color to the female on the left.

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I am the Boss

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Last but not least, yes, babies survived the mess as well .

Attached Image:

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Each one of my Anubias takes up quite some significant real estate. If I would put these 5 together I would think that I need at least a quarter of the entire tank just for them.

So ?

If you don't mind half the real estate been taken up by tall grassy plants why worry about 1/4 been taken up by broad darker plants to counteract ?

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

If you don't mind half the real estate been taken up by tall grassy plants

Yeah, but not in one spot

I will think about it, maybe sometime I am ready for this

Thanks Bensaf,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow! I go home for the weekend and this is what happens! LF! I really like the DW. Personaly I don't find a problem with the placement. Are you going to re grow everything back into a jungle again?

One more thing! I can easly see the rock on the back left side being eaten by your plants once again. Maybe a taller rock there?

P.S.
Dang you have a ton of fish in there!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

LF,

Just wanted to say great shots! Were they taken by the Tamron? Whatever you used, the texture of the DW is beautiful in that first oto shot.





Oh, and the oto itself is nice too

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Back in the saddle!

Wings -

Thanks . No, I don't think I will regrow a jungle, at least not on purpose. Hopefully I catch better times when pruning is needed. Good idea about a larger rock on the left, I will see what I can do (without taking up too much ground cover). Yup, loads of fishies .

NowherMan6 -

Were the shots taken by the Tamron? No, they were taken by me . Yes, I think all really close close-ups were taken with the Tamron. I also love the texture of the wood in that Oto shot, this was the main reason this picture made it onto the site. Thanks for the compliment.

Ingo

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I think the new wood looks great, even if it is a bit centered. I think that the really great rock placement counters that a bit. All those rasboras look so cool! I'm disappointed that you got rid of the apons, but I'm well aware how much space they take up, so I understand why you took them out. I cant wait to see the pearlgrass fill in a bit, and that stargrass looks amazing! The rotala macandra really draws the eye, but as pretty much the only red plant in view, it looks a little out of place. I hope your alteranthera bounces back to add a little more pink to the aquascape.
Beautiful re-scaping!

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

illustrae,

Thanks for the compliments. Sorry to dissapoint you on the Apon front, I just didn't really like it anymore. The yellowish/greenish leaves in bunches didn't make an impression on me. It had a nice flower once in a while though .

Thanks again,

Ingo

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LF,
The wood really looks nice, I especially like the shot that you reference the Jersey Stargrass. I just really like the way the stargrass looks with the wood.

One thing I did notice if I may .
I noticed one pick that shows a large size vertical rock on the left side that looks like it's very close to the front glass. Is that there as part of the design or simply to hold down the DW temporarily, becuase it appears to be too big for that position so close to the glass. Just curious.

My Scapes

Wow. I just read the whole tread. It only took about a month.
Its a nice looking tank and i cant wait for it to fill in after the replant. Im surprised you removed the Xmas Moss because you seamed so concerned about its battle with algae.
One thing i did notice is that there is no movement on the bottom. Maybe a few cories?
Keep up the good work.
Now to tetratech's log...see you in about a month.

20 Gallon Long:
Aquaclear 300
2 Bolivian Rams, Mikrogeophagus altispinosus: Gumby and Pokey

tetratech:

One thing I did notice if I may

- I knew that the unconditional compliment phase would be short lived

I assume you mean the rock at the left of the driftwood trunk. Hm, it is there to hide the cut of the branch. This was the only position the wood really fit in nicely and it left the cut wide in the open and close to the glass. The rock hides that "unnatural" looking aspect of the driftwood. Remember when I had all my rocks further back? Within weeks you couldn't even see them anymore and I think that once things will grow a little this one will be less visible, although not completely hidden (I want to show my rocks).

weird22person - How brave of you
Now all you have to do is to keep up with the thread (and tetratechs, and NowherMan6s, and Dr. Bonkes, and all the others ). Cories are nice, but I think in the long run there will not be too much open space on the substrate. I will have to think about it. Thanks for the suggestion.

Ingo

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I want to show my rocks

If you must

My Scapes

If you must

Come on tetra, keep it PG-13 in here. There are children about...

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Back in the saddle!

uh, nowher I'm referring to LF's big rock near the front of the glass

My Scapes

of course! Whoops, my bad... that's 4 years of all boys hgihschool talking there...

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Back in the saddle!

AAAnyway,

Do you guys have a better idea on how I could make the cut section of the driftwood not be visible, I am open for suggestions.

I think you can see the area about 2 pages back on pictures of the tank during the redo.

Thanks,

Ingo

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doesn't a rock cover the cut end?

in the last picture page 51 i think - you can't see the cut

could you bury it more in the substrate.

i have the same problem with my bogwood, but i'm going to plant loads small plants right close to the cut end, hopefully hiding it.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

How about a small mound of anubias? Attached to smaller rocks and the piece of driftwood itself. I'm seeing the smaller form of nana and petite, or another nice plant I use for concealing things is java fern windelov, or both in a small mound. Then you could appease bensaf and conceal the cut end at the same time!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Appeasing bensaf is always a good idea

Below is a picture of the area in question.

There is no way it could be buried, that would have to be a huge mountain of gravel.

Doing the mount thing soooooo close to the front will create similar problems than the rock does right now. A mountain of plants really really close to the front glass.

Ingo

Attached Image:

What to do?

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I'm confused, isn't that part of the DW already blocked by a rock?

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Back in the saddle!

I suppose there's no way of moving it back slightly, just enough that then you could conceal it with a smaller rock with some petite attached? I'm not thinking a HUGE mountain of anubias, rather a small tumble of anubias.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I'm confused, isn't that part of the DW already blocked by a rock?

I think LF is trying to find alternatives to the rock. I mentioned it was too close and too big to the front glass.


My Scapes

O.K. This is my first reaction and it will keep all the nice work you've done intact.

Cut that thick base that's sticking up in the air (I mean water) on an angle and then take the same rock you had that was standing up, but now lay it down on the cut angle and plant around it. If it's laying down toward the back of the tank it will be easier to soften with ground cover etc. and will look more natural.



My Scapes

First attempt at this painting on pictures thing so bear with me, here's sort of what I'm saying.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/DriftwoodDilemma.jpg
This gives a bit of an idea of what I am seeing, I'm no artist, and this would also require a bit of space to do.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Oh, I see. I actually like the big rock close to the grass. It's unusual and certainly presents some opportunites for aquascaping with small plants. If I may repost one of LF's pics (below) I would surround the base with HC, and also have the HC creeping up the side between the rock and wood, blending them together. I've seen it used vertically like this before, plus as discussed in Chaos' thread, HC is a slow grower, not like glosso. Just my opinion, of course



Attached Image:

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Back in the saddle!

You folks are cracking me up.

Well, let's see:

- tetratech: no way I remove the wood right now to saw off part of it, although the thought has crossed my mind. It took me 30 min to put it in place, and that was without any plants in the tank.
- NowherMan6: planting around the rock might be an option, I will have to see.
- luvmykrib: Sounds good, but this would be really Nana Petite then. How about a small Java Fern instead, maybe even attached to the cut directly (if I can figure out how to tie it on under water )? Some crypts might look nice as well, anything that doesn't grow too tall and would not cover the plants behind it from the viewer.

Thanks for trying ,

Ingo

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I think that was one of my suggestions, to attach a plant right to the cut end.
I use a slipknot for hard to tie things, it may be tricky but I think doable. Or if you can't tie the plant on, then a smaller rock with the plant on and that should also do the trick.
Yes I meant petite, I also am very fond of java fern (I've had to be) and both are prunable as well, so you can keep them smaller.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

no way I remove the wood right now to saw off part of it, although the thought has crossed my mind. It took me 30 min to put it in place, and that was without any plants

I guess looking at a pic, it's hard to appreciate how hard it would be to take the one piece of wood out.

My Scapes

It's also hard to tell just how close to the glass the branches are. Pictures tend to have no depth perspective to them on the flat computer screen.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Yeah, a small rock with the plant on it sounds good too.

tetratech,

I agree, it looks so easy to remove the wood and put it pack in. But its depth is as deep as the tank, its height almost as high as the tank, parts have plants woven into it (Star Grass and Pearl Grass), and other plants (like Anubias) are planted really close to it. No doubt I would have to replant at least some of them.

I will try to take a picture that shows it from a different perspective, but it will have to wait until tomorrow night as it will be too late today when I get home and too early tomorrow when I leave the house again.

Really, thanks for all the effort in helping making the tank (even) better.

Ingo

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Then you could appease bensaf and conceal the cut end at the same time!

Hmmmm...... that's because I'm usually right ?

Ram some Java Fern - wendelov or Narrow Leaf in the gap between the wood and the gravel. Job done, no worries about shading etc.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

There's always a simpler solution than we can see, probably because we're so close to our own problem and need some perspective. As the other plants begin to fill in it won't be as obvious, but sticking anything in front of it will help to hide it for now.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

If you ever do deside to move it you could trim the edges to look more natural. Go at the thing with a saw and some heavy sandpaper.
And i see what you mean about keeping up with the thread. Dont you people have better things to do?

20 Gallon Long:
Aquaclear 300
2 Bolivian Rams, Mikrogeophagus altispinosus: Gumby and Pokey

Well I should do my homework but I am not so sure that would be better....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

As promised (although a little late), here is a picture of the rock to hide the stomp from a different angle. Just so you get a feeling of how close it is to the glass. The Crypt Wendtii leaf tip is touching the glass.

Attached Image:

Close Encounter

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And because tetratech and I had a discussion about "how to plant Anubias", here is a close-up showing how I root my Nana in the substrate.

Attached Image:

Nana in Substrate

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And, so we don't forget these guys, the Pearls are doing great in the tank

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Pearls Together

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And another one where you can see that the males' throat is turning orange. He is becoming a man , I can't wait for the first bubble nest.

Attached Image:

Pearls Again

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great photos again LF

did you say your bogwood was off ebay?

i'm after one that looks like roots for mangrove look, in my 40g, thinking of not having africansi just don't know!

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

Ingo, the rock IS very close to the glass. It will be tricky trying to figure out how to disguise the cut end without getting too close to the glass.

The gourami's look gorgeous as well, you take great pictures!



"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

LF found you some more wood just incase you decide need more

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MALLEE-ROOT-WOOD-BOGWOOD-2-TONS-ALL-SHAPES-AND-SIZES_W0QQitemZ8257177855QQcategoryZ3126QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting



www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

We all should take a trip there and pick out what we want. That is really sweet! Think he would ship to the US?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

All,

Thanks again for the comments on the pictures. Although I sometimes think that I make good pictures there are other time when I feel more like the opposite is true. I have not yet been able to even once capture a larger group of the Espei in one photo. Either it is out of focus, or over-exposed, or under-exposed, or the fish don't show because there is too much green around them .

SheKoi - That is some pile of wood, 2 tons, wow. But they all look very chunky. Yes, I got mine of eBay, with the help of NowherMan6 who pointed my to this particular item (thank again).

Ingo

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Sorry to sound like a broken record, and please let me know if you want me to stop with the photography stuff, but there are a few ways of getting around the situation you describe regarding capturing the espei school. First set camera to ISO 1600. Next, and most importantly, when taking a shot of a large school you need depth of field. Camera blur is one thing, but with many lenses you don't realize how shallow DOF is at the max aperture (2.8 in the case of the Tamron) I can tell with many of your close-up pictures that either you or the camera is using the max aperture - part of the subject is in focus, but another part less than an inch away is blurred, this is the tell-tale sign. Schools don't line up one right behind the other, they are all different distances from the camera so you need to use a smaller aperture to capture all of them in reasonable focus. Set aperture to 5.6 minimum, see if you can get away with that, otherwise try f/8 or even f/11 (may be too slow shutter speed, try anyway) That should at least help keep them all in focus and the high ISO should help you stop the motion. As for exposure issues, you can try spot metering, or use center-weighted. Using too wide an area will throw you off.


Regarding the wood, it's interesting that they say it's for show only, something to that effect, not specifying aquarium use. I wonder if it's not aquarium safe?

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Back in the saddle!

I guess I have to add an SLR camera to my list. My fastest ISO setting is 400 on my Canon S2 IS. I guess I can get good pics but I would have to put an incredible amount of light over the tank. Like 100wpg.

My Scapes

please let me know if you want me to stop with the photography stuff

PLEASE DON'T STOP

If it wouldn't be for your "photography stuff" then I wouldn't make the pictures that I do. I think you are right on with your evaluation of how I take pictures. I know I have 1/1600 and probably the 2.8 as well. I will try to somehow change to the settings you suggest. As I said in some other content, I am by definition actually a lazy guy and as such haven't even managed yet to take the Tamron instructions out of the package .

Maybe I have some time this weekend to actually focus on getting a school in focus () .

Thanks,

Ingo

EDIT: tetratech - Can't find the smiley with the sunglasses anymore, otherwise I would have posted 5 in a row right here (only see one that indicates cool, but that is not the case with 100wpg )

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Thanks I'll bring up the photo stuff sparingly, how about that?

Maybe I have some time this weekend to actually focus on getting a school in focus

Well, you'll be stuck indoors for a few hours on Saturday through Sunday with the snow storm that's coming our way, so you'll have time to play around... as long as it doesn't take you another 12 hours


p.s. - tetra, you've done a great job taking photos with the camera you have, you need not move up unless you really want to

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