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tetratech,

I am not sure what kind of algae is affected by the Excel.

BBA for sure, as I see it die ].

BGA – I haven’t tried it on BGA as the only time I had that in my big tank I treated it with Maracyn, and that was weeks before the first Excel attempt. Maracyn works very well.

The second round of Excel treatment wasn’t a full blown attack (maybe 2 to 3 weeks back) but more of a half-hearted attempt to achieve something. Well, that didn’t work what-so-ever.

The first round was performed when I in particular had a significant amount of BBA and that worked very well (dosing 50ml then 50%water change, 50ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml).

This time around I have very few BBA and it is already dying, but the thread doesn’t seem to care (but no growth either, which could also stem from normalized Phosphate values and/or switching to TMG, aka less Iron addition). So far, I dosed 50ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml, 20ml, and I plan to dose 2 more days at 20ml each.

Ingo

EDIT: I replaced the Brush term with BBA as I think that is what I have/had, if there is any difference.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 29-Dec-2005 08:04

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Maracyn
The regular mardel product, regular dosing?

Brush term with BBA
There's many different types of brush algae, but yes brush and bba is one in the same as far as these dicussions.



My Scapes

The regular Mardel product, yes.

I forgot what the regular dosage was, but I think I even stayed on the light side of it.

I added 4 tablets, spread throughout the tank, each day for 5 days. Bensaf didn’t like that, he never made a comment about it after I used it, but when I mentioned I will give this a try he voted against it.

I also used it on my 20G (which was the first tank I used it on) and it worked also very well. I actually assume I introduced BGA to the big tank by adding plants (the Rotala) from the 20G that were already infested.

In addition, on both tanks, I changed the water flow as there were some very low current areas. In the 20 I repositioned the HOB to the middle of the tank, in the 125 I added temporarily a powerhead to blow some current across the front of the tank (things have changed since then again, as you know).

Ingo

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Interesting,

I didn't have bga in my 12 until I changed the light from 1.1wpg to 2.3wpg. My 12 actually has very good water movement from the HOB and it you could see the java moss swaying in the current. The tank has very little mass (just java moss and some wisteria). The filter is a small whisper HOB from the AGA 5gallon I had. I had a sheet of coarse filter media and I just threw it in.

I believe this comes down to waste and light again. My guess is the tank has too much light and not enough biofilter to control the BGA. BGA is a bacteria after all. I've now added some eheim efisubstrate to the filter and put some eco complete from the 72g into the back of the tank. This is my educated guess. If this doesn't work I will either do the marcyan or emycin.

My Scapes

Tetratech,

I think BGA can manifest itself in many ways. So far I have heard about:

a) Foreign introduction (plants, gravel from other tank etc)
b) Low Nitrates with other nutrients being available (can fix its own Nitrate)
c) Lack of current

I would rule out light as a direct source. Sure, it will speed up the process of growth, but it seems to appear in low light tanks as well as high light tanks.

What an interesting little bugger this is .

Ingo

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Ok,

Because I am bored, here is another part from the Espei Education Department

I hope I don’t bore you all too much

Location division within the tank

The oldest juveniles (maybe 9 weeks and up) and the adults occupy the top levels of the water. They preferably hang out on the left side of the tank.

Younger juveniles (between 4 and 9 weeks) are scattered throughout the tank, on low levels close to the substrate.

Even younger ones (2 to 4 weeks) team up on the lower right hand side of the tank, in the back.

And the tiny fry (less than 2 weeks) is hiding most of the time within the plants close to the substrate.

Here is a shot of the left side with the old guys

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Here, I made an effort to count them, I think I circled 44 in this picture

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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And here, already circled, are the 2 to 4 week old ones on the left of the Macandra group

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Interesting about the fish locations by size. I definitely see why you go by the name of Little_Fish.

So in the tank you have a few otos, 2 gourmais, and a few hundred espei?

My Scapes

Yeah, being a fish-newbie was only one reason why I selected the name LITTLE_FISH. The others were that I like little fish (not that hard to guess) and I made it upper case to put some emphasis behind it . Like a little fish with really big teeth .

Acutally, the tank currently has 6 Otos (as of last Saturday when I was lucky enough to see them all) and 5 million Espei (acutally, I guess there are still less than 100, maybe 80).

The Pearls are still in the QT as I don't want to introduce them while I am still messing with the tank like a madman .

Ingo

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So there's no enemy for the espei other than the adults themselves and the filter intake?

My Scapes

That's right

They got their own version of Garden Eden, and the filter intake is the the snake that lures them into biting into the apple (eh - didn't come up with something better) .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

That works for me.

As for being bored how about sending me some Glosso? = ) Take your time. I might actually place an order for some a long with some other plants. I need to do some checking around first.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingsdlc,

Let me know if you ordered some Glosso.

Otherwise, I will have to find a good way to ship it to you. Any suggestions, like UPS, USPS, overnight, or what?

I would probably have to cut it in the evening and have it float over night, then pack it in the morning and have the wife bring it to the sender (Post Office or UPS drop off) in the morning.

Ingo

PS: I have never shipped any plants anywhere

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Going to PM you.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ok,

I measured my tank parameters again yesterday evening, at least N and P.

N is back up to almost 20ppm, even if it was completely depleted a week earlier and I only added 3 x 1/2tsp of KNO3 during the week.
P stands as about 2ppm, which is a little less than last weekend, and I didn’t add any.
The only other elements I added to the tank where 3 x 20ml of TMG, 3 x 1/8tsp of Potassium Sulfate, and a daily shot of Excel (as described a few posts earlier).

I guess for the next week I will keep this schedule, I would assume that P will fall a little below 2ppm and N might get a little over 20ppm.

Problems that I currently have still include the thread algae that, although not rampant, is doing just fine in the tank (high lights are down to 3 hours per day since weeks). Also, some of my Dwarf Sags and/or Pygmy Chain Swords have melting leaves, I will have to read up on that as it has happened on and off during the entire time the tank is set up.

A weekly water change will follow later today,

Ingo

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I can't imagine with all those plants that your n is so high. Did you ever do the PPS calibration? When I did that I was surprised. My levels were lower than I thought by simply looking at those ridiculous color charts.

What would add to N all that espei poop and those melting leaves? Oh I forgot, Jersey water



My Scapes

No tetratech,

to my shame I have to say that I did not do the PPS calibration yet. And it might very well be that it has something to do with the Jersey water .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update – Week 14

Well, this one could also be labeled annual tank update, although it would be only the first one of its kind (in the hope that another will follow in one year; I wonder what that would look like). The tank is now up and running for 14 weeks, many many posts account for all the things that have been going on in that time. The ones that stick mostly in my memory are:

- Planting of the initial setup seemed to be a lot of plants, but in retrospect was only a rather small mass.
- I would guess that half of the plant species from the initial setup are no longer in the tank. All but one did not seem to fit the design of the tank any longer, and the one (Egeria Densa) fell victim to a rigorous Excel treatment.
- Various types of algae have befallen the tank during this time, from the rather harmless Brown Slime to the not so pleasant Blue Green Algae. None was so bad that the tank had to be stripped down but there were annoying anyways. The currently active one is Thread algae that do not seem to be very impressed by an Excel cure.
- Most importantly was (is) the breeding of my Espei that, within all this mess mentioned above, managed to grow their population by at least 500% to anywhere from 70 to 100 fish.

As for changes during the last week, not much has changed. This water change saw some pruning of the Ludwigia and the cutting of some runners of the Chain Swords as they always try to invade the Glosso. I sure don’t have a low maintenance tank, but that was not the intention anyway.

Well, I initially thought about posting all the weekly tank pictures, but I think that 15 are a little too much and get boring. So I will show every other week to shorten the pain.

Here is the tank at setup, soooooo many plants

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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2 weeks later the tank was at full bloom, lots of fast growers were making sure that the tank establishes itself as fast as possible.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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In week 4 the first steps at some scaping were taken, most of the really bushy fast growers had been removed by then as they were outgrowing any other plant in the tank.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 6 saw more scaping, still in the beginning though. The Dwarf Sags and Pygmy Chain Swords are still small and sparse.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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In and around week 8 major replanting occurred where entire groups of plants have been moved from one location to another, or even left the tank all together to make space for new plant types.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 10 marked the end of this replanting frenzy and only smaller changes like pruning etc start to take preference.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 12 sees the plants growing, in particular the new Apons are starting to show their size.

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This weekend, week 14. As you can see, small plants have grown to medium size, medium one to really tall, except for the ones that just have been pruned. Somehow, the Uruguaensis in front of the Power Reactor is still not reaching any visible size, one has to look for it (in the tank, not the picture). The same counts for 3 Crypt Lucens that pretty much haven’t done anything since planted. Making the assumption that they are medium high plants I placed them half way to the back (in front of the Apons) and now no one can see them.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Some tank details: I like the way the tank looks when half the water is removed during the water change. It is so green and the long leaves of various plants create a nice floating carpet on the surface. Sometimes I wonder if I should keep it like that permanently.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Here is a close-up of some Glosso towards the left side of the tank. Wherever Glosso is beginning to create a carpet but doesn’t yet have a very dense appearance this kind of algae grows in between. I cannot remove it either as it is attached to the rocks that hold the Glosso roots in place.

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The Rotala group just keeps on growing; I should have trimmed these two long stems this weekend but didn’t feel like it. Next weekend for sure.

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[font color="#C00000"]See previous page for weekly tank update pictures and more detail shots[/font]

And yes, we have another blossom on the Anubias. I just love the simplicity of their appearance.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Another good thing during the water changes is that I can most of the time find all my Otos, here are 3 of them torpedoing below the Espei.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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I like the waving appearance of the Crypt Retrospiralis, although the leaves are really long by now. How long do they get anyway? I think this plant needs to go to a tank side, or – if I ever find some good driftwood – behind that.

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Last but not least a shot of the Rock Valley. It looks very green these days, all around. The Cyperus Helferi has not grown in height at all since planted, but it seems to get a little fuller. Is this it’s final height already? That would not be good.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Very nice LF. Nice way to start the New Year.

-I really like that pick as well showing the tank 1/2 full.
-I forgot are you cutting the tops on the Rotala or once trimmed replanting the tops.
-As Bensaf and I have both commented, your tank is really is dire need of DW and/or visible rock to make it look naturally handsome.
-Small note I removed the Anubias from my tank it simply doesn't work well with my setup.
-I'm wondering if your deep glosso foreground with that matrix of leaves and algae is harboring no3 and po4 by trapping waste and food and then leaching it into the water column. Maybe Bensaf has a thought.

Happy New Year and Happy Driftwood Hunting!


My Scapes

tetratech,

Thanks for the comments; they are appreciated just as much as they were last year

I do both with the Rotala, I started off with 3 stems, if I remember that right. I cut off tops and replant them, and most of the time I leave the bottoms in as well. Only if they look really yucky so I dispose them.

Yeah, I know – the driftwood/rock height impression. I actually was at the LFS today and almost bought some wood, but in the end decided that it just doesn’t have enough height. Mediocre sized pieces tend to simply disappear in my plant jungle, as can be seen already with the many rocks in the tank.

I think one Anubias is very hard to fit into any scheme, a group would be much easier to add.

Usually the area above the Glosso is the only part that I vacuum a little. But I am doing a bad job with it as I place a filter over the hose (wife’s old panty hose leg ) to avoid sucking up fry. As such I don’t get a lot of suction. Maybe you are on to something as the area between the Glosso plants sure looks messy.

Happy New Year to you as well,

Ingo

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BTW, Like my new Avatar?

That is one of my female Gold Twin Bar (Comet) Platies in the 20G.

I thought why not have a new Avatar in the New Year.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I like the way the tank looks when half the water is removed during the water change.

I do the same thing. It helps too that the fish tend to school tightly at the front of the glass during this period too. I always take a cigarette break during this part of the water change so I can look for a few minutes. Makes you want to try a real long but very shallow tank.

The Uruquay and Cyperus will take some time to get height. I've had a Uruquaysenis a bit longer then you and I find the new leaves get gradually longer and longer. But even after having mine for a few months the current leaves max out at about 12". They're getting wider too. I reckon it'll probably take >6 months to get to full height.
The Cyperus is probably the same.

Don't know about the algae and the glosso. I noticed on my own that I have specks of green spot algae on the glass up to the height of the Glosso but not anywhere else.Nothing on the plants or substrate. Don't why that is, maybe because of the Glosso I don't clean that part of the glass and it gradually builds up. It's just hard to get to that part of the glass without disturbing the glosso. Old credit card job.

Definately I'd check the test kit. I had a Tetra NO3 kit that used to constantly read 20ppm of NO3 even though there was nothing there. It even used to read tap water at the about the same. Caused me problems. It was this more then anything put me off kits for life.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Thanks for the info on the Sword and Cyperus. Also, I agree that trying to clean the glass all the way down where the Glosso grows is almost impossible as I would most certainly cause it to be uprooted. I will soon though go ahead and trim the Glosso off the glass section and use that chance for a nice cleaning.

I hear your (and tetratech’s) warning about the test kit accuracy loud and clear. But I also would like to remind you that my “fertilizer tests” during the last 2 weeks showed me that the kit basically works. I could see values going from high (greater than 20ppm) all the way down to nothing when I stopped adding KNO3. I don’t know if the level reading is accurate, but tendencies are clearly identifiable. If I just wouldn’t be so lazy I would go ahead and do tetratech’s PPS test. I vaguely remember reading up on this and I seem to have found some issues with it as well. Guess I will have to read it again .

Also, Dan brought up a good point in his log that people rarely show the surroundings of their tanks so I posted a picture in his log of mine (he asked for it). Here it is again (you didn’t ask, but anyway).

Ingo

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I don’t know if the level reading is accurate, but tendencies are clearly identifiable
For the most part I agree, but I my no3 kit it's almost impossible to tell the difference between 10ppm to 20ppm and 40ppm to 80ppm without a benchmark.

The full room shot is nice. I like that window right behind your tank, you could drain the tank right into the yard. Is that a couch in front of the tank? I would be hanking out there 24/7.

My Scapes

I know, I know tetratech, I am just a lazy bum

And yes, this is a couch , big enough to sleep on (which happened one night after an exhausting tank overhaul).

Here is another shot. The couch is visible in the front left. Then there is the coffee table to rest the feet on, and a chair to the right. The visible counter area is where I prepare the food and fertilizer, on the left of it, just off the picture, is a small TV hooked up to digital cable so I can watch 200 channels and listen to music while working on the tanks. Two of the counter cabinets are filled with tank related items like spare rocks, spare lights, Excel, Prime, and the like.

Ingo

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And here is our old cat resting on the above mentioned chair (and towels).

He would also be the reason why an open tank in our household is not a good idea .

Ingo

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Not much new to report,

Except maybe that I am switching to daily fert addition.

I add 1/4tsp KNO3, 1/16tsp Potassium Sulfate, and 10ml of TMG every day since Saturday after the water change.

I am wondering if it makes a difference if ferts are added in the morning or the evening.

Ingo

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I am wondering if it makes a difference if ferts are added in the morning or the evening
Are you experimenting just for the hell of it or are you trying to correct a problem (hair algae).

I still think you have less room for error because of your light. Not that it's ridiculously high, but it is very high given the tank size. Doesn't Amano only use like 1.5 to 2 wpg on his big tanks. As I said before you have double the light I have for the same depth. I do think you plants grow faster than mine, probably because of the higher light, but with that comes less wiggle room for things like fish waste, etc.

Interesting though that you get thread algae, nowher and I get GW and Bensaf get's nothing. If you could figure that out :%)

BTW - Nice kitty, looks like he/she is guarding the tank or waiting for the fish to get bigger.

Last edited by tetratech at 03-Jan-2006 08:49

My Scapes

Interesting though that you get thread algae, nowher and I get GW and Bensaf get's nothing. If you could figure that out

Interesting indeed. Sometimes I get the feeling that it all comes down to the fact that when he started his tank he stuffed it full of plants right off the bat, while we all waited for ours to grow in. We all dose pretty much the same way in a method that's shown to keep algae down, but I think maybe it was those first few critical days/ weeks where the tanks were settling in that made the difference. That's why I'm anxious to start a small tank (5-7gals... once Christmas gifts are paid off ) because it's easier to stuff a small tank than a large tank. If it turns out relatively algae free then maybe that'll provide a bit more insight into keeping tanks relatively algae free no matter what the size.

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Back in the saddle!

Oh, and I also forgot to add... I hate to beat a dead horse but...




NowherMan6 attached this image:


Last edited by NowherMan6 at 03-Jan-2006 08:58[/font]

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Back in the saddle!

Nowher,
Yes I agree with the plant mass at the start, not only does it add in fert suck up more importantly nh3 as well. Basically Bensaf started off with a much bigger biofilter than anyone else.

As far as the Driftwood I think LF gets the "Drift". For the time being if it was me I would just put the coffee table into the tank.

My Scapes

LF,

I have some 2x4's laying around you can have..........

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

You guys are too much

Yes, I get the drift, and I am even willing to pay a commission to anybody who finds me the right pieces of qualified driftwood.

The “new” ideas about the fertilizing routine are more of theoretical nature, although I wouldn’t mind if the remaining thread algae would disappear in the process. My thoughts are:

- Fertilizing daily creates a more balanced environment for nutrient availability. I just have not done that before because the Plantex was so hard to dissolve (as I probably added way too much anyways).
- What happens with nutrients at nighttime? Most likely nothing, I doubt that any organism (or filter media) would use them up while the lights are out. But if so then dosing in the morning would be an advantage.

The cat is an old man, he is about 14 years old and way too lazy to jump on the big tank. But a Nano, well that is another story .

Amano has on tanks of my size about 3wpg running for about 10 to 12 hours, only really big tanks have maybe 2 to 2.5 (at least that was what I calculated). Also, he never mentions any short bright light time which makes me believe his full lights are on for the full duration.

I guess this coming weekend I will create a major open space in the middle of the tank and sink the coffee table .

Ingo

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Just for the fun of it,

Here is a picture of the 2 Anubias Barteri that I have on the left side of my tank.

Count them, there are EIGHT flowers, some coming, some in full bloom, and some going

Ingo

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And as a reminder,

Soon it is going to be time for this guy (and his girl) to come home to the big tank

Ingo

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nowher and I get GW and Bensaf get's nothing.

Hmmm....I wouldn't quite say that. I get some, everyone does, just very very little so it's almost invisible.

Oh, dear I can hear the illusions shattering from here

The Ottos must be eating something, I don't feed 'em. I've got a Hillstream Loach for over a year that I've never even see swim much less eat. I get the occassional green spot on the glass if I let PO4 drop. I had a bad dose of Brown Algae when I changed over the tank recently. Silica Sand , to be expected.I just let it burn itself out.

With regard to the lighting. Amano is quite clear that he only runs the full lights for a few hours a day. The rest of the time all his tanks are basically low light.The exception being his very small tanks which he runs about 6 wpg.

Getting in on the horse flogging - try florida driftwood. I still think you should get a pile of so-so pieces and just build them up.

Also plants consume nutrients 24/7.They still work at night. Actually they do MOST of their growing at night - check your tank first thing in the morning and you'll see the spurts. It doesn't matter when you add the ferts as long as they are there, whenever is convenient.

Last edited by bensaf at 03-Jan-2006 21:19

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf for the input,

Yeah yeah, it is always nice to have 3 guys on your back telling you to get some driftwood

Believe me, I am on that website at least once a week.

And Bensaf and algae – I think he only says that to make us feel better

Bensaf – where does Amano state that he runs his tanks with full light only part of the time? I haven’t seen this reference yet. All he says in his books is the wattage and duration, no mention of staging (although I might be wrong as I read them maybe 2 months ago and I am an old man and might have forgotten what I read ).

Thanks again,

Ingo

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I get some, everyone does, just very very little so it's almost invisible
ah ha! I knew it That's why I never saw more pictures of your Bensaf does Amano Paradise Utopia Eden Aquatic Forest Setup :%)

Actually they do MOST of their growing at night - check your tank first thing in the morning and you'll see the spurts.
That is so true and I was going to post this question, when I wake up I swear my Stargrass looks like it grew 3 or 4 inches.

My Scapes

Actually they do MOST of their growing at night - check your tank first thing in the morning and you'll see the spurts.

Yeah, so true. I swear my green water looks so much more lush and juicy in the morning, it's incredible.


But seriously, considering how easy it is for algae to use nutrients of course there's going to be SOME, but I think we were referring to the problems, the outbreaks, the explosions - THAT'S what Bensaf never gets, the bad stuff! I still personally think it's because he started out right.

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Back in the saddle!

My problem is that I rarely see my tank in the mornings. When I leave the house it is dark in the basement and I don't want to turn on any lights so the fish get their well needed rest (with all that breeding going on).

I will have to check the night-growth out on the coming weekend .

Ingo

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That's why I never saw more pictures of your Bensaf does Amano Paradise Utopia Eden Aquatic Forest Setup

Ohhhh...sounds like a challenge


Guess I'll have to post a pic tomorrow

I've resisted meddling with this one, letting everything grow in. Still not there yet, maybe 85%. Then again my 85% is probably way better then somes 100% ........

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

I am always happy when you post a picture, not only when you are challenged to do so .

We need to see way more of your tanks so we can learn from the visual experience as well as your writing.

Ingo

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Ohhhh...sounds like a challenge
Whatever it takes

My Scapes

Guess I'll have to post a pic tomorrow

Well, today is tomorrow, isn't it?

no pic here

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok you asked for it and here it be....

The right side needs more time. The Uruquaysenis and Narrow Leaf Fern need to fill out more to balance thins.

The left side is a bit off as the Macrandra was over trimmed and needs a bit more height to fill the hole it left

bensaf attached this image:

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Another

bensaf attached this image:

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

This is actually my first time to try Glosso. It's working ok. One thing I like - if it hits an obstacle in it's path, it just climbs over it and continues on it's merry way. I've decided to let run rampant and see where it goes.

Here's some climbing over an Erect Moss obstacle.

bensaf attached this image:

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Well Bensaf,

No disappointment, as usual .

That is what I would call a heavily planted tank, left to right and top to bottom, I love it.

About letting the Glosso run rampant: It will take over your lower plants and kill them off. I find my Glosso to be very intrusive, it climbs all over my rocks and into the moss, if I let it. Also, it managed to grow really dense at the center of a Crypt Wendtii that is now neglecting to put any new leaves out (and grows very slow).
I had my Glosso and Hair Grass fight for space at Rock Valley and guess who won (but maybe I had a bad hair – grass- day )?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Finally we get something from the great Bensaf.

Very lush and beautiful. Nice textures, etc.
I see what you mean about the fullness of the left to the right. I might also have to send you shopping with LF for more substantial dw or you simply need to prune more or I just can't see it in the pic.

Did you remove the Mayacca? One thing I'm not sure about is whether I like the contrast of the sand more than I do the green ground cover.

My Scapes

The “Driftwood War” is getting into full swing

I wouldn’t mind going shopping with Bensaf at all, maybe we could meet somewhere in the middle, like Ireland .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I dunno Bensaf, that glosso looks a little leggy to me, maybe you need some pointers on how to really get your plants growing well...


LF, I'm telling you, ebay! ebay! ebay! Morwe driftwood than you'll know what to do with.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Ah yeah?

I challenge you to find one piece that I would not turn down for one reason or another .

Try me

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Alright then...


http://cgi.ebay.com/UNIQUE-HUGE-DRIFTWOOD-ROCKS-IMBED-Aquarium_W0QQitemZ7735756182QQcategoryZ66790QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A huge piece, very branchy - I'd cut it up into one large one and several smaller ones. Give it a bleach bath, a scrubbbing, then let it soak in water with Prime... it should be fine.

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Back in the saddle!

That is a really nice piece and your right about breaking it up.


My Scapes

Well NowherMan6,

That took you a long time to find anything, didn't it ?

I have to say that it looks very good, thank you so much (feeling like a looser now because all I always find are silly blocks of wood).

The asking price is also not all that high, I might just place a bid on it. In the worst case it is a learning experience and a small dollar loss.

Thanks again, let me know if you find other jewels like that,

Ingo

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You're very welcome

There was actually a big piece I saw last week that was just as nice, if not nicer, a nice tall stump/ branchy type thing but it's gone now.

I always cruise ebay for driftwood and the like because I have Mental MTS, which is different that regular MTS. Mental MTS is when you make detailed plans and aquascape layouts in your head for various tanks but never do them, MTS is when you actually do it.

I'm still dreaming of a big 100+ gallon driftwood filled tank featuring a boatload of rams, or a few firemouths or angels and a big ol' school of tetras... a real biotope type thing... but I digress. So yeah, keep an eye out on ebay, lots of good stuff.

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Back in the saddle!

The advantage of Mental MTS is that it is much cheaper

I just saw that somebody put a bid in for this sucker, I hope it is none of you folks ]:|

Ingo

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Would I do that?

My Scapes

I don’t know, would you?

There is another old saying that goes like:

One cannot trust the upside down – head in tank – goggles on – aquascaper



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Dang I thought it was the other way around......... oh NO!!!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I dunno Bensaf, that glosso looks a little leggy to me, maybe you need some pointers on how to really get your plants growing well...

Cheeky young pup ....


I didn't do anything special. You guys were nagging me so I just grabbed the camera. Unfortunately the Wisteria and Ammania were starting to close up for the night.The photos dark.

Current problems I see-
The Augustifolia and Macrandra need to fill out more to fill that far left side. Another couple of weeks should do that.
The Fern and Uruquay needs a couple more months.
The Wisteria needs to come down and forward a few inches, layered more. Actually I'd like to replace this with Stargrass but still can't find it here for some reason.
The Ammania needs to be sculpted. It's a bit shapeless looking.

I agree with tetra completely. The Glosso was more of a curiosity as I've never tried it before. I think I prefer the open sand look. It had more depth, the Glosso make it look a bit flat.But it can be removed easily enough if I decide to do so.

BTW the Mayacca is still there, between the Wisteria and Ammania but is a lot greener then the last time I posted a pic

The driftwood has been swamped and has lost it's impact. I'm meeting up with Paulus (Upikabu) tomorrow, so I'm sure we'll be hitting a few places with "driftwood mountains", I'll be looking out for a couple of thin branchy bits. I can fit them in nicely without disturbing anything.

I'll be posting some close ups in a seperate thread. I've got some nice hard to find/not so common plants in there, including one so rare in the US most don't even believe it exists. I'm going to post photos and growing parameters/my own experience on each of them.

I can also un-hijack Ingo's thread !

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Don’t worry about high jacking my thread, we asked for it .

The driftwood has been swamped and has lost it's impact

That is exactly one of my points on finding just the right driftwood. It is rather easy to find one when the scape is designed to not fill out the tank (tetratech), but loads of plants that cover the tank make it hard to have anything (may it be rock or wood, or even a castle) stick out. I see that even in Amano’s tanks that are heavily planted (as in full, not just substrate and some height areas) the wood disappears over time.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

NowherMan6,

What are you getting me into with this driftwood selection?

It is by now already over $50 plus $16 shipping, and over 3 days left on the auction.

See, this is a price range where the wood is should be of good quality, and not only of good size and shape. And quality is one thing you cannot test from looking at a picture. It might have bugs, and fungus, and what not, it might even begin to rot already.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm sorry I ever mentioned it

Hey, I was only trying to help. Considering a piece that size 50 bucks isn't that much, but you're dead on about the quality - from the look of it it looks fine, but I guess you never know. I was always under the assumption that a good bleach scrub would get rid of any critters, but again, you never know.

What can I say, some of us just like to live on the wild side with ebay

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Back in the saddle!

I am a major chicken when it comes to these things

And don’t worry about the additional stress you cause me, if you find more wood then keep on informing me. I will see how high it is a few hours before the auction closes.

With these bidding things on E-Bay: sometimes the price is valid but other times a bidding war starts where one is willing to bid more than someone else simply because that person assumes that the previous bidder must know that the product is good (which is not the case), and so forth.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Will do boss

I always stay out of bidding wars. usually I jump on "Buy it now" items if I like them, because then you stay away from all that other nonsense. Keep your eyes open, deals are out there to be had.

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Back in the saddle!

My old boss and his friend used to start their own biddig wars on their items. Just a little bit on the dishonest side. He was the kind of guy to do just about anything for a buck.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yeah Wingsdlc,

I was worried about that too, there might be a group of people out there who artificially drive prices up and cause the "if others want it it must be good" assumption.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am definitely not brave enough to buy anything off ebay. My friend has been having problems with not getting purchases after paying for them. Scary!

Ingo don't let these guys pressure you into getting driftwood just for the sake of having it. When you find the right piece you'll know it and then you'll have it. Just keep your eyes peeled and you'll find it eventually. Personally I think they're jealous of the all green look, you have so much growth it makes their eyes cross with envy and they must nitpick. Myself I'm also jealous but I think I handle it ok.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thanks for the support luvmykrib

I am rather sure that the gang actually wants to help me and I appreciate their efforts very much. If we wouldn’t nitpick on each other we would not be able to bring our tanks to the next level. And don’t you worry, I am doing the same to them . And thank you for the compliment; it is always nice to have some feedback.

On a different note:

Just to show you how easy it is to lose stuff in your tank

Besides the hardscape that is visible in the first picture, there have been another 3 massive rocks added to the tank until that second picture was taken.

And all seem to be non-existent

Even the rocks of “Rock Valley” seem to be smaller now. Are they shrinking ?

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And don’t you worry, I am doing the same to them
Now I'm in for it.

LF,
That's a great pic of the tank with just the harscape and now. It really is very serene and the grass-like plants were really a good move.

As you probably know I am not a big fan of making the corners of a tank tall. Obviously most people do it to hide equipment, but in doing so it makes the tank look contrived. Sometimes the corners look good full if it works with your setup or if your doing a slope down effect from one corner. If you add some driftwood touches here touches there and group your rotala m. thicker and add more to the left I think you tank will really be . You could always finetune the foreground with more rock, etc.

In terms of equipment you could really hide alot of it behind the apons or eventually eliminate the reactor and heater (visually anyway)


Last edited by tetratech at 06-Jan-2006 12:49

My Scapes

I love keeping up with this tank! What size and overall shape of driftwood are you looking for. We employees get first crack at these things, you know! I usually buy awesome pieces, even if I have no intention of using it in the immediate future.

tetratech - Thanks, I am working on it

Tainted Glory - Haven't seen you in a while . I am looking for branchy wood that I could arrange in a group. The ones I get to see in your store (after you guys pick up all the good pieces ) are not suitable. Here is why:

The section of wood that is in the Gravel and Rock isle (Malaysian, I think) has sometimes pieces with the right shape, but too small to make an impact in my tank.

The other pieces that you have in the parts section (usually inside the empty "for sale" tanks) are not suitable as they are too chunky.

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A piece like THIS ONE would be great:

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Weekly Tank Update – Week 15

I don’t like weekly maintenance and water changes and finally I figured out why: they make you look really close at your tank and any flaw seems major, even if it is not visible from just a yard away. Similar to these cosmetic mirrors that blow up the size of your face and every pore seems giant .

This week’s close-up observation was that my sags and chain swords are still showing some “melting” (see picture after the weekly full tank shots. It also seems that the Apon leaves are getting thinner and more yellowish. Hell, even the Glosso seems to be getting yellow. I believe it must have something to do with my recent mingling with fertilizers. I guess I ran the system to lean, now the question is which one is missing or maybe even what combination is missing. To counteract the melting I added a 3/4 tsp of KNO3 right away, also upped the TMG to a 20ml dosage. The plan for follow-up fertilization will change as follows:

KNO3: from 1/4tsp to 1/2tsp daily
Potassium Sulfate: stays at 1/8 daily
P: from nothing to 1/8 on day 3 and 5
TMG: from 10ml to 15ml daily

Otherwise, the tank is just growing fuller, two stems of the Macandra were trimmed as they reached the surface. Fish seem to be doing great and now that the fry are getting to be adults soon it worries me that I might have too many (not sure though). I might add the Pearls any times soon, although the male is very very territorial in the 20G and at least once in a while chases even the Platies away from the “center stage”. The female seems to be very fond of him as she rather often comes right back to him and offers him her throat and sides which he nips on gently, just to chase her away again afterwards. I figure he is just a teenager and doesn’t know how to treat a lady yet .

Weekly tank photos will be limited to 4, in 5 week increments. Then I have a few close-ups to show.

Ingo

Tank at setup:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 5, pretty full but just the beginning of “having fun”

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 10, one of my favorite stages of the tank development, all looks very nice and balanced. Also look at that tiny plant in the front right corner, which is a small piece of Star Grass that I added from the 20G.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Week 15, this weekend. Look at that front right section again, the Star Grass has grown quite nicely . Rock Valley on the other hand has completely lost the status of “focus point”. The group on the left with the Crypt Retro and Apons has taken all the attention.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Here is a close-up of the Star Grass, I like it and I wouldn’t mind using it in other spots of the tank as a mid ground group.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Can you see the bad shape that some of my sags/chain swords are in? Hopefully I can correct that.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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And how can we forget the main attraction in this tank, about 100 of these :

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Has anyone here ever seen plant photos from Robert Mapplethorpe? Anubias flowers really remind me of his art (not that I want to imply my photos are as good as his).

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Now here comes a segment of “Oto Mania”. The good thing about water changes is that I once in a while can count my Otos and check if all 6 are still alive. Now, for the first time, the guys were so nice to pose for a picture together:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Then they ran off again but at least 5 stayed together for an additional shot:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Then they changes direction and gave me one more good look before they decided that the party was over :

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Very nice pics LF, I particilarly like the anubias and the oto pics, yes during water changes I have counted all 9 of mine. I guess your having success with stargrass as well. I think the addition of my no3 will make the stargrass leaves even fuller and larger. Here's a pic of your's and mine.



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Yeah, the good old New Jersey Star Grass

I think one of the reasons yours looks fuller might be that:

a) Mine grows in the “low light” area of the tank, far away from the bulbs
b) Mine would look fuller if I had more light on them while taking the picture
c) A combination of a) and b)

But just like you I am scared to mess with the plant. No doubt it does way better when ferts are added and more light is available. The difference of the one in my 20G to this one is amazing, here it looks about 500% better (if such a subjective observation is measurable in the first place). I have a Red Rubin Sword to the right of the Macandra and I don’t think it does too much in my tank. I just might take it out and plant the Star Grass in the right back corner, with shorter elements slightly growing diagonally in front of the Macandra. If I ever dare to mess with the Star Grass, that is .

Another topic: I just fished the 2 Pearls out of the 20G QT (easier than I thought with all the plants in there) and have them in a bag floating in the 125G. I have my fingers crossed that they don’t drive my Espei insane. I guess this will also mean the end of major breeding, but I sure cannot complain about not having enough Espei as it is .

Wish me luck,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Congrats on the big day for the Pearls. I was wondering when you were going to turn them loose. I bet you'll still see fry every now and then, they cant get all of them...

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6,

I have the Pearls in now but I am a little worried as they, naturally, stay in hiding close to the substrate. I am not sure how well (or long) Gouramies can "breath" water alone before they need to go to the surface .

We will see in a few hours.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,

So far so good

It seems like the Pearls are through the worst.
I never felt so emotional when adding a fish to a tank, probably because I had sufficient time to feel attached to these two buggers .

I documented the addition in photos and the whole process up to the last picture took over 4 hours (a mini labor ).

To start off, here they are bagged up and adjusting to the new tank’s water parameters.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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One hour later I added them, they immediately swam to the Macandra and shortly after this picture was taken they disappeared behind it. I got very worried that they might forget to breath.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Another 2 hours later they came out for the first time, checking out the open space from the security of the Anubias leaves, just to disappear again.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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And another hour later they got a little more daring and started to go on a sightseeing tour. I guess they like Rock Valley .

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Another, and last one for now, shot of the two. It is not hard to identify who is the boss. She is following him wherever he goes. We will see how long it takes until he is ready to take over the tank as a whole. That should guarantee some tight schooling from the Espei .

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Boy your really pushing the post count. At this rate you'll be to 1,000 by 3pm

Very nice pics, I particularly like the one with rock valley© in the back.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech,

Yeah, I realize that we are getting close to the 1000th entry. I wonder if the entire site will blow up once this happens .

The Pearls actually still spend quite some time in the “bushes”, but I feel more confident that they will make it.

The big question now is what fish to add next? I am thinking about 2 to 3 True Siamese Algae Eaters. Anyone with any tips on them?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Lookin' good LF! I especially liked the few posts with the ottos. I might have to go get me a few of those, now that I actually have some algae for them to eat.

I'm glad your new guests enjoyed the tour of your tank. My pearl can las quite a while before going up to breathe air. So I wouldn't worry about that.

I remember talking to you about the amount of iron in our micros. I found a new type to use from our store. Only .033% iron in it(as opposed to the .6% or so in Kent's). It's julian Sprung's flora plan. This way I can dose that all the time, and use the Kent's when I need to add some iron.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I am thinking about 2 to 3 True Siamese Algae Eaters. Anyone with any tips on them

Really cool fish, seem great for large tanks. Ive heard them described as 6 inch torpedos when full grown, should be in little shoals too, 4-6. Read up on how to spot the real ones, you dont want any rowdy flying foxes spoiling that peaceful tranquil espei/gourami/oto party

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Back in the saddle!

Love the oto mania shots! The rest of the tank seems to be doing well as well. Glad the pearls seem to be taking to their new home nicely.

True siamese algae eaters are great fish. Warning, they love java moss. They will prune it alot and neglect the algae. If this isn't a problem then they would make a great addition to the tank. Be sure that you don't get the flying foxes as they do get rowdy and aggressive and really don't eat a lot of algae when they become adult.
There is a way to tell them apart, the number of sets of barbels and also the long stripe is slightly different, or at least mine were. Foxes have flat bellies and SAE's tend to get rounder like the otos.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Yeah, I realize that we are getting close to the 1000th entry
What does 1,000 poster get?

My Scapes

Matty – Thanks for the comments on the Oto shots, this was really the first time ever that I had them all in one spot and was able to take a group picture. They also seem to get really fat, all this food (aka algae) is doing them good. I am using TMG now as my sole source of Iron. So far I have not seen a deficiency that I would think is based on a lack of Iron, my red Macandra is as red as ever, so are the leaves of the invisible (at least in photos) Red Rubin Sword.

NowherMan6 – Thanks for the info, I read up on SAEs already about 3 months ago as I always liked them. My LFS has then rarely (so far I have not come across them there) as they make sure they sell them as the real deal. The have false ones, and I made sure to study them as well.

luvmykrib – thanks for the comments on the Oto shots and the info regarding the SAE. I didn’t know the part with the rounder belly, that might come in handy. Although they are usually underfed in stores (if anything like Otos applies) and as such their bellies will be thin.

tetratech – A Hug

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As always great photos of an awesome tank and wonderful fish. Just out of curiousity, how much time to you spend weekly on maintaint this tank at this point?

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

OldTimer,

Thank you so much for the input and the compliments.

These days, as I am not doing any major changes anymore (like replanting the whole tank as I did a few times so far), I would say I spend during the course of a week:

- daily 0.5 hours observing and wondering what can be changed = 3.5 hours per week
- Water change 1 hour to drain 60G and 20 min to refill, plus 10 min addition of stuff for the water (baking soda, equilibrium, and ferts) = 1.5 hours
- Before water change, maybe 1 hour pruning, if required, and glass cleaning = 1 hour
- Cleaning up the mess I made before and during water change = 1 hour
- Daily fert addition (additional 5 times a week) of 5 to 10 min = lets say 0.5 hours

So, without feeding and just maintenance, that gets me to 7.5 hours per week. That is actually not all that much when considering that there were days when I messed for 12 hours straight with the tank.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Pearls won't bother the Espei at all. Mine doesn't even look crooked at the Hengali's. I doubt they'll even do much for the fry. They are not the fastest fish in the world. But they're always picking through plants looking for hydra etc so any eggs may not last long.

They'll settle in quickly enough. If they are stressed at all they immediately go to the darkest corner they can find. Once they settle in they are quite socialable.

I'd avoid SAE's unless you feel you have a "need" for them. They are ok when young but it doesn't take long for them to become more trouble then they're worth IMO. They will feast on your moss. When they figure out that some strange hand puts food in the tank, they get lazy and become fat, pooping, damaging nuisances.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Thanks for the input

The entries here are the first time that I heard that the SAE are not all good. I guess I should think more about them. As you probably know they were my solution for the remaining Thread Algae. I don’t have a lot of it, but certainly too much to be controlled by hand. How about some shrimp then?

All,

The earlier mentioned driftwood auction ends in about 10 hours and the piece currently stands at $81, plus $16 for shipping. That is quite a hefty price for a piece where one is only able to judge its quality from a picture. Any suggestions within the next few hours would be appreciated.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Most people don't associate SAEs as being preadatory, but they are, in fact, quite omnivorous, and feed on invertabrate life as well as decaying vegetation in the wild. Thus, the espei fry may not be safe from the SAE; just a speculation.

I'd avoid SAE's unless you feel you have a "need" for them. They are ok when young but it doesn't take long for them to become more trouble then they're worth IMO. They will feast on your moss. When they figure out that some strange hand puts food in the tank, they get lazy and become fat, pooping, damaging nuisances.
I think what Bensaf is saying here is bascially is that an SAE is not an Oto that will compliment that plants both in look(size) and function. The SAEs don't balance that way and are less gentile with plants, etc they are also fairly large waste producers.

My Scapes

Thats an awful lot for an unknown, LF, you're right. And if it's more than you're willing to deal with, your best bet is to let it go.

For what it's worth, at Absolutely Fish there's a big hunk of driftwood sitting in one of the big tanks in the back, takes up the entire length of a 55 gallon. Not as branchy as the one on ebay, but it is pretty nice.

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Back in the saddle!