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LF,
Please don't let the photo compliments change you. I still consider you an aquarist first and a photo buff second. Pictures and planted tanks what a perfect combination.

My Scapes

Please don't let the photo compliments change you

Don’t worry about that, I am too old to change

I always like to take nice pictures and a nice looking plant/fish in the tank is just the right object for it . So logically, no nice tank and no nice fish = no nice picture. Ergo, I have to be a scaper / fish keeper foremost.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I always like to take nice pictures and a nice looking plant/fish in the tank is just the right object for it .

A blonde supermodel draped across the hood in a bikini wouldn't hurt either

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Whenever I try to convince a super model to pose for me they run away screaming for help. They just don’t want to dive in my tank, I don’t know why.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Back on topic here.........

The female dwarf blue rainbow look very much like the male except their fins are more of a light orange where the males are red.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wingsdlc,

Basically I knew that, but the probably best [link=Rainbow Fish Website]http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Praecox.htm" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] lists the following:

“Heiko Bleher reported in Aqua Geõgraphia that "... males have red-edged fins while the fins of females are pure yellow". However, my original females had red fins and succeeding generations are still producing red-finned females, although at times they can appear faintly orange coloured. There are however, aquarium stocks that have yellow-finned females.”

That should make the sexing a little harder.

Ingo

PS: The link above is directly to the Dwarf Rainbow Page, [link=Here]http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/index.htm" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] is the site itself.

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Before you jump to the pictures,

[font color="#C00000"]I need your advice[/font]

I had a busy day, but not tank related. I managed to steal myself away for an hour and went to the LFS to look for Melanotaenia praecox, the Dwarf Neon Rainbow.

Once there I perused the isles and found them. All adults (12), all male, about half showing signs of finrot on their tailfins, and $20 a piece. Wow, I checked them out for a while and decided I will have to try my luck somewhere else some other time (at least 2 weeks from now).

Well, on my way out I perused the tanks some more, and what do I find, juveniles. In all there were 6 in the tank, $12 a piece. I like juveniles better as I love to see my fish grow up. Here is where your advice would be appreciated: They had 3 females and 3 males (in a tank with emperor tetras and mollies), I decided to buy all the girls and one boy, so 4 in total. One of the males, although the same length than the others (maybe 1.3 inches) already started to show the trades of the adult, beginning to have a raised back (figured he must be older and neglected him). Another male was rather bossy so I turned him down as well. Should I go back tomorrow and add one of them? Or will my group of 3f and 1m be ok? What is I add juveniles once these are a little older, am I asking for trouble?

Anyway, shortly after adding them to the 20G QT they are doing great, the males is already after the females and one of them seems to currently hold the boss position (she is a little larger), even towards the boy. And call me crazy, but I seem to observe that they are interacting with the adult platies, there is clearly the head to tail fin spreading thing going on, but more in a mating way than in a threatening way. And they hang together as well (not all the time though.

So, here they are in the bag:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One of the females in the tank:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The male :

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And lastly a male and female, a little out of focus:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Pretty nice looking fish. I must be in a good area for Dwarf rainbows because my store sells them for far less than that or your store has wild or F1 fish. As for your numbers.... I think you will be just fine. As far as I know I don't think rainbows are as bad as Livebeerer with the M/F ratio so it might not hurt to add another male.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingsdlc,

Thanks for the input. Help me out, what is F1? First generation bred in captivity?

My concern with the numbers is less the issue that exists with livebearers (meaning one male to few females to divert the chasing of a single female for breeding purposes) than the aggression with males fighting for dominance in a 20G tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

In my 55G I have two male Boesemani Rainbows with 3 Giant Danios. I have never seen any thing at all of a problem with them beating on each other. If any thing they flare their fins and throw their breeding colors. They also swim with the danios and flare their fins with them too just to show how pretty they are. Silly Rainbows..... I wouldn't worry about agression issues between the males and when you get them in the big tank there are tons of hiding spots if anything does come up.

F1 is first generation breed in captivity

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

LF,
Very nice. Are those the same species as the one in the pick I sent you? Good luck with them.

My Scapes

Thanks Wingsdlc,

I will think about it during the morning, then maybe I go to the LFS and get them.

Yes tetratech, that’s them . They look different a) because they are juveniles and b) the picture you posted are all males.
Thanks for the good luck wishes.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Get more. There's no aggression between the males. A lot of displaying and racing, they do this pretty much side by side so it's not one fish chasing another. There's a lot of dancing and playfulness between the males but never any damage seems to be quite a social activity. They'll figure out an alpha male soon enough and he'll develop bigger humps sooner.

It's not something to worry about rather it's a sign of healthy happy fish, they seem to enjoy each others company , both male and female.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

Thanks, as usual

What you say makes perfect sense, as I wrote before - one of the males, although the same size, has the hump already. He must have been the alpha. I hope they are still there then (last 2, but lots of shoppers in the store buying one or two fish of tetras, cories, etc).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

bensaf,

Well said! That was the point I was trying to get at but probably was a little far off.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

congrats on the rainbows - they look very nice, making me want to go out and add to my shoal - haven't even started tank up yet.

decorating will be done by next weekend so will begin my setup and continue my log a week today.

are you adding anymore to your rainbow collection, i'd suggest 2 more females and 1 male.

good luck with them
shekoi.

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

Fish look pretty good, all considered! With some time and a good diet, they'll color up in no time.

BTW, I've got a friend that builds custom tanks and deals in driftwood looking for appropriate size and shape pieces for you! He's supposed to get me pics of each individual piece in the next few days. I'll keep you updated.

Mike and shekoi, thanks for the input . More info will follow below:


Weekly Tank Update – Week 16

I had very little time this week to care for my tank, I did nothing but feeding the fish and the daily fertilizer routine.

The pearls are doing better now, not that they did badly before, but finally they show themselves more often in the open. That started to happen about two days ago.

A thing that begins to seriously worry is the Glosso. When looked at closely it is pretty bad. The low level seems to have died off and I don’t know how much longer I can maintain this plant. Maybe it is time to think about another ground covering plant for the front of the tank. All other plants seem to do ok, except for the Apons that turn a little yellowish now and the Dwarf Sags / Chain Swords that still show signs of melting. Oh, and so does the Uruguaensis Sword that might not get enough light in the back there (but I don’t have a better spot for it).

Otherwise, 4 Rainbows have been purchased yesterday and 2 more today , but more to this after the tank pictures. I will keep it short and only show last week and this week in comparison, plus a few detail shots.

Here is the tank last weekend:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here it is today. Not many changes, just some additional growth:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A close-up of the Glosso in front of Rock Valley to illustrate my troubles with it:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The male Pearl saying Hi to the Oto:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the Pearl couple together; it seems the male starts to develop the orange throat:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Three shots of the Espei at low tide :

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Shot 2:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And the last one, is it getting crowded yet?

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now on to the Rainbows. I went to the store today and both males were still available. Well, now they are in the QT. Here is a picture of them still bagged:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

About 2 minutes after adding the bag the male that is already in the tank came to show off:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

He didn’t leave the side of the bag during the whole acclimatization process:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of a male after the release:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All three males together, showing off and trying to figure out who will run the show. All the while the Platy is looking on and wonders if he has a chance to become the boss. BTW, I swear I see one almost adult male platy trying to mate with the Rainbows, and that with both genders.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here are 2 males and 2 females discussing what to do next:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

More male show of pride . The one in the foreground is actually the one with the biggest hump, but the new slender one is by far the most aggressive. I bet he will have a hump in no time (or kill all others):

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And again all 3 males in deep discussion:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, a female following a male. I guess she likes him :

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On the glosso,
It looks like you just waited to long to thin it out.

Espei,
Looks like they're deciding what to do about their new tankmates.

Rainbows,
Espei population control.




My Scapes

Awesome pics LF..I really like those red plants in your forest green tank and I can tell from the last week pics that they have grown..Really nice pics

Well, if you look through my log you will find out about how I always thin out my foreground every couple months. I take out the biggest chain swords, replant the small ones, then take the large ones to the lfs for $$. You could probably thin out the glosso, and take quite a bit back for 20 bucks, maybe more(well at my store you would end up getting about that much). You will probably see better, faster growth after you thin out the group. I noticed some of the leaves on the bottom had maybe a little algae on them? That's what tends to happen to my chain swords if I let them bunch up too much.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaay back on page 30. No one ever wants to listen to me. Now it's too late to take a bunch of it back to your lfs. Time to throw it out(at least most of it).

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 15-Jan-2006 19:52

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Once it reaches critical mass, the Glosso really needs to be pulled up and replanted. There's really no other way to trim it. The plants at the bottom of the pile will begin to die off due to a lack of light.

This may not be too bad in a 30 gal, but in a 125 it's alot of work. It'll take a few hours with a scissors and tweezers. This will have to be done every couple of months.

The problems will be the same with any foreground plant. HC will require the same but because it's slower growing it will be much less frequent, makes it a better option for a big tank.

Maybe it's time to consider a clear sand foreground
The open sand foregrounds look nice IMO , But you do need a border of wood and rock to really make it look good and stop the sand from mixing in to your plant substrate.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

and maybe I don't want the stuff any more......and I will have to go looking for a new plant.....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well,

Thanks everybody for the input.

The fact that my Glosso is messed up and the options to correct it comes at a bad time as I have another really busy work week ahead (might even include the whole weekend).

Matty – the grand master of predictions - I guess I should have tried to interpret your statement waaaaaaay back a little more to the situation I have at my hand now. Then I applied it mostly to the Chain Swords (and mine do not need thinning and don’t have algae in them) and the algae you saw was only in areas that have just been reached by the Glosso. Next time I will be more careful when reading your entries, I promise .

I remember that I frequently threw the question in the mix on how to trim the Glosso in the first place (although my memory is not so sharp that I would remember page numbers like Matty does ) and I somehow either neglected all warning messages or there were none. Or maybe I was just too lazy .

Wingsdlc – That’s the reason I didn’t contact you about the Glosso anymore as I would like to find out what to do with it before getting you in the same situation.

I guess I will have to try to find the time to remove little pieces at a time .

Bensaf – how would you go about retrofitting a tank with a sand foreground?


On the Rainbow frontier: I did notice that one of the males (with the hump) has some of his dorsal fin missing. I blamed the new boss – and man, he is bossy and chases all others (males and females) around like mad until they all huddle in one corner – for it, but then I looked back at the pictures of the fish in the bag and the problem already existed there.

Bitten off by other fish in the LFS or ill, that is the question? I see no sign of infection or such and it seems to be gone all the way down to the back of the fish.

Ingo

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What about something like this moss?

Monosolenium tenerum (“Pellia&#8221

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

From the Tropica website:

"Monosolenium tenerum is an attractive liverwort, which looks most like a giant Riccia that simply stays at the bottom, where it forms cushions. It is a brittle plant, and pieces break off easily, so it is best to place it in the aquarium attached to stones with fishing line or in small clumps among other plants such as Eleocharis. Once M. tenerum has established itself, it is very undemanding. This plant is mistakenly known as Pellia."

In my experience it differes from Riccia in that it is a sinker (and will not float to the top once detached or trimmed) and larger, and much darker green. It can be very nice but is the same pain in the neck when it comes to overgrowing and pruning.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is there an easy forground plant??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Bensaf – how would you go about retrofitting a tank with a sand foreground?

You'd need to push back or remove the substrate at the front. This would be the easy bit. The tricky bit is having something to keep the 2 substrates seperated. Some use thick strips of plastic or wood/rocks.

Unfortunately just putting sand on top of the existing gravel won't work as the sand will sink into the gravel over a short period of time.

To make the look work though I feel you need a clear line of wood and rock where the sand starts. A river bank appearance. The trick is to make it look like the entire tank is sand not just the foreground. Just looks silly and gimmicky otherwise IMO. This is the real tricky part and it's not easy to pull off, requires a lot of planning at the set up stage. You don't have the hardscape for this at the moment.

Wings,
All ground cover plants require some work. You need to be prepared and ready for this. It's the price we pay. Some are more work then others, but the work is always there.

Pellia is a nice plant but it's not really good for ground cover. I think it works best on wood at various heights and for creating strong diagonal lines.

Riccia is not too bad if handled right. If well secured on rocks maintenance is not too bad - lift the rocks out and give them a haircut once in a while then put them back.
It can be mixed in with moss. It doesn't need to be trimmed as it grows bits will float away but enough will always remain tangled up in the moss to keep going.
Amano used to mix Riccia with Glosso. It gets caught up in the Glosso runners, like with the Moss method when it gets to big it'll float away but enough will remain tangled to keep going. A 1 inch piece of Riccia will turn into a big think ball in a few weeks, it's a very fast easy grower.
Some I thought I got rid of grew back from God knows what. I just shoved pieces in with the moss and let it do it's thing. I may try mixing some in with the glosso for fun.

Open forgrounds are nice, especially if you have fish like Cories. It can look just as good too if done properly. The trick is use wood rocks and stones to create borders from the plants to the foreground. This hides the plant bottoms which nobody really wants to see. Otherwise it's just plants stop and substrate begins, it's not a foreground , just an empty space

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi Ingo & the planted gang,

Just wanted to quickly drop by and say "Happy New Year" to all. I just got back from vacation late last week and still recovering from it. Went to visit fish markets in 4 countries (including a nice meetup with good ol' Bensaf ) and acquired one suitcase full of aquarium stuff in the process. Will post some pics when I get around to it.

BTW, your tank is looking nice and "jungly". Congrats on the praecox rainbowfishes. I've been keeping them for 4 years now and have a soft spot for them. If you ever want to speed up their growth, feed them live worms over a few days. They will practically grow in front of your eyes. Also, watch for signs of dropsy on the females. I lost 2 females from it a few months apart (after having them for a year). Fortunately it doesn't seem to affect the males or other fishes.

Cheers!

-P

Paulus,

Glad you got back safely.

How did your tanks look on return ?!

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi Bernard,

Surprisingly well on the whole.
Didn't lose any fish in the 42g and 23g tanks, but missing 4 cory hastatus, 2 Endlers & a dwarf pencilfish in the 15g (probably from the heat - tank temp was up to 32C when I got back). Got quite a nice plant growth and no algae in the 15g & 42g, and a nice coating of green spot and brown algae (and extra fat otos) on the glass of the 23g. Also the SAE in the 23g has turned into a big, fat, ugly monster. ]:|

Took me a while to clean and rearrange the two smaller tanks (including upgrading the lights) last weekend, but didn't have time to install the CO2 yet.

BTW, did you tell Ingo about the driftwood pile we saw in Sumenep?

Cheers!

-P

Thanks all,

Bensaf – yeah, I guess doing a sand foreground, which actually was something I considered in the beginning, seems to be a lot of work and an even bigger mess when performed in a tank that is already set up. On the other hand, it seems that you are not too wild about an open gravel front and I share that opinion, at least for a tank that has my type of setup (and gravel style).

I guess for the time being I will start to thin out the Glosso and maybe save some pieces (the new growth on left and right) and let them grow in again.

Paulus – can’t wait to see all the goodies that you bought in action . And I am glad to hear that your tanks survived with only minor issues. Thanks also for the warning on the female rainbows, I wonder why they would get dropsy. Could it be that they don’t take live worms too well? And yes, Bensaf told me about the 200 meter high driftwood pile ]:|



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo,

In my case the dropsy had nothing to do with the live worm feeding as the symptoms only occurred 6 months afterwards. It just came suddenly and without warning. I had to resort to euthanasia both times. Here's hoping your fish will never have it!

Cheers,
-Paulus

-P

i once had tank with sand at the front and gravel with plants at the rear it did look really good - when i moved house i set the tank up to be fully planted and i do perfer it. have to make sure gravel is well held back in mine the sand and gravel started mixing covering up the sand.

how are the rainbows doing? i never had dropsey with mine but one of my males became very thin was still eating just wasting away, before dying about 4 months ago:#(

LF - what do you dose your tank with and how often?
is there anything i can add to my tank for co2 instead of an expendsive co2 machine? thinking about trying diy just wondering if there are any tablets, chemicals etc.

cheers shekoi

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

upikabu and shekoi,

let’s keep our fingers crossed that the Rainbows will have a long and happy life, with all the Espei fry that they can eat in the near future .

So far, and that is news from last night, all 6 are still alive and kicking. I guess it is too early to be sure of anything.

shekoi – thanks on the sand update .

There is a liquid CO2 provider that we use for some of our tanks, it is called Flourish Excel. It basically is liquid carbonates that you add to the tank. Supposedly they last for only a day or two before becoming useless to the plants though, so frequent usage is recommended. The problem with it is that:

a) some plants don’t like it, like Egeria Densa and Najas melt away.
b) high light and plant rich tanks need quite a large dosage and in the long run this product will cost you more than a CO2 injection system.

The other option is to build a DIY CO2 system that basically consists of a soda bottle, water, yeast, and sugar. I am no expert in this, but from what I have heard:

a) it is not very consistent in its CO2 output over time
b) it is not suitable for tanks over (I guess here) 50G
c) it can malfunction, as it did in NowherMan6’s case (if I remember that right)

Hope this helps,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 17-Jan-2006 11:34

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

it can malfunction, as it did in NowherMan6’s case (if I remember that right)
I don't know about nowher, but remember my atomic bomb in my 46?

My Scapes

thanks alot - i'll have to look around best store brought option then.

i'll first see how plants do without - any suggestions of how to help plants in tank with no co2 - i mean like surface movement or not? less / more water changes etc.

shekoi

Last edited by shekoi at 17-Jan-2006 12:16

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

On the other hand, it seems that you are not too wild about an open gravel front and I share that opinion
Well excusssssssssssssse me!

My Scapes

tetratech

you forgot to quote the second part of it:

at least for a tank that has my type of setup (and gravel style)

Here you have it, that was targeted specifically to you

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Just having alittle fun. I think it's all good!!!

My Scapes

tetratech,

That is what I am trying to have as well , fun.

But for the third week in a row I am sitting here at work for 11 hours each day, fun is sparse to come by

Glad I have you guys to keep me entertained, thanks for that.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sounds like the busy season for you. Well at least you know your needed.

I do alot of work from home with the wife giving me dirty looks when I'm on FP. At least if your at work the wife can't do that.

Tonites fun activity: Riccia and hairnets. (I hope my fish don't get caught in this stuff.)

My Scapes

Cool,

And maybe you can post some piccies of it in your thread

I don't need a hairnet though

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On the other hand, it seems that you are not too wild about an open gravel front and I share that opinion, at least for a tank that has my type of setup (and gravel style).

I like open foregrounds a lot ....as long as they're done right.

But, yeah without any wood it will be difficult to pull off in your tank . It'll just like like places you forgot to plant rather then part of the 'scape.

tetra,
Good luck with the hairnets look forward to seeing how you use them. Make sure the wife's not around, they look at you funny when they see you play with these things. A kind of " imagine, I used to think he was , now look at him !" look.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

mercy, a guy goes away for 4 days and two whole pages get filled up here

it can malfunction, as it did in NowherMan6’s case

as tetra pointed out, that as his tank that basically turned into the budweiser brewery. i'm sure it smelled pretty nice though


anyway, good luck with the hairnets tetra, I'll soon be doing the same with a bird net and moss

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Back in the saddle!

Well,

You have to forgive an old man for not remembering who had the explosion in his tank, at least I remembered that it happened

Yeah, we will see how the scape will turn out when I remove / reduce the Glosso (I have so little time these days).

Now on to something completely different:

I added my ferts last night and was about to leave the tank for the night when I took a last good look at my tank. And what did I see – a new baby

Well, it is not a fish, it is a new blossom (btw, the apons have also 2 more flowers). This time my Narrow Leaf Ludwigia developed on one stem 2 flower stems, one still being a tiny bud the other already open. I took a picture of it as I don’t know if it will still be there when I get home tonight.

Here it is:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Beautiful flower LF, you're water must really be nice for so many plants to blossom like that.

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Back in the saddle!

LF,

Very cool. At work we had a crypt flower. I was gone for a few days and the light died on the tank and the thing flowered. It was kind of crazy but really neat. It also seems that I am the only guy in the store that will take care of the plants. Oh well.... its my cup of tea.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks guys for the comments on the flower, I am already wondering how it will look tonight. Maybe it is all done by then or maybe it isn’t, I will keep you posted.

Wings – If you are the guy that takes care of the plants then you found a niche for yourself in that store. The guy I respect most in my LFS is the plant guy, he is pretty good, not arrogant about it, and always willing to learn more (and so am I).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I would be the plant guy for sure. Something I am trying to get going is our plants because they really aren't much right now. The boss has given me some free range to do what I want so it is kind of fun. Although on a down note about this. I killed off all the Val in our Discus tank. It was either (1) they didn't like the Excel or (2) they didn't like me moving the better light away from them to get to get the swords regrowing. Anyways they really didn't look go today.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingsdlc,

You live and you learn

That's what I do every day with this tank, although sometimes it seem I resist the lerning

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo,

Are you sure that flower belongs to the Ludwigia ?

The reason I ask is it's almost unheard of for stem plants to flower submersed. They, typically, will only flower if they break the surface. Also they usually have flowers at the internodes very close to the leaf. I see some sag leaves poking out there. Now a plant like Sag would be much more likely to flower underwater and will produce a flower at the end of a long stalk.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Next time I will be more careful when reading your entries, I promise

I'm just messin' with ya. Really I hear you on the lack of time thing...I think that's the major algae problem in my tank. No time for me to help the situation out. Your tank looks algae free btw. very nice. Mine is still a small problem, one that could probably be fixed easily if I took time to monitor my dosing and do water changes on schedule. At least my foreground plants are still algae free.

I agree with Bensaf on the flower. Very cool lookin' flower though.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Ingo you have all the luck, I wouldn't care about which plant produced a flower, I'd just be so excited I got a flower! Although it seems so much more likely that your tanks get flowers than mine. Are you a terrestrial gardener as well? If not maybe you should give it a try! You are so good at making things grow, the plants, the espeis!

Keep it up! They really seem to love it, the plants and the fish.

Did you dose the pearl at all after you noticed it was wounded? I had a danio lose most of it's tail fin once and it eventually grew back, I did use melafix in the tank but man is it messy for awhile! But no infection or fungus got it while it was regrowing the fin.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Bensaf – No doubt it is the Ludwigia. And your description of where the flower stem evolves is absolutely correct. Right above a leaf node I have 2 flower stems coming out. They are maybe 4 inches long. Unfortunately, the one I pictured must have opened yesterday and by the time I came home it was beyond prime. The pedals were opened in a90 degree angle but they were melting. In the middle of the flower is a yellowish / greenish half ball shaped structure. I am a little in a rush and I deleted all the additional pictures of the flower from my laptop (as the quality was not that great), but I will try tonight to download them from the camera again and see if there is one that shows the whole stem part as well (I think there is). The second bud (in the earlier picture on the right hand side) hasn’t opened yet, maybe I will get a chance for a picture on this one.

Matty – keep on messing with me, that is ok .

luvmykrib – Thanks for the compliments, I guess I can be lucky sometimes as well . I have nothing to do with regular gardening, my wife actually banned me from doing so as I have a tendency to organize my yard plantings so they look more like a military formation . And I am not kidding.
The pearls are fine, the missing fin part is a rainbow. And I didn't treat as I see no wound.

Thanks,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 19-Jan-2006 04:24

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

You live and you learn

Oh yeah thats what I was doing when I spent all that time on my homework and not my fish tanks right??

Neather of the bosses have said anthing to me yet about it but I am sure when I start ripping out all the vals they might ask some questions being they tank is right next to their office. I really don't like vals any ways I its good that I know a couple of diffferent possibilities to kill them.



Killing a few vals at a time,
Wingsdlc

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

LF,
Congrats on the flowering Ludwiga.

Bensaf,
The reason I ask is it's almost unheard of for stem plants to flower submersed.
You don't understand Jersey water. It causes all kinds of mutations

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech

Yeah, our water, a reason for people from other areas of the tri-state part of the US to have fun at our expense .

I guess it must contain some stimulative ingridient for the reproduction system of any living organizm. Maybe that is why I have twins .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I guess it must contain some stimulative ingridient for the reproduction system of any living organizm.
So that explains why the espei are breeding like guppies.

BTW - That's wonderful about your twins. Your blessed!

My Scapes

talking about water how much do you change in your tank and how often?

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

I guess it must contain some stimulative ingridient for the reproduction system of any living organizm.

And how do you explain my harlies' refusal to breed, hmm? Bunk, I say! ]:|




But seriously, Jersey City water is the best water I've ever tasted. At least to me it is... a German exchange student that came to stay with me for a few weeks a few years ago wouldnt drink it because it tasted like chlorine...

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Back in the saddle!

talking about water how much do you change in your tank and how often?
I could only speak for myself, but most of us here in planted aquaria change 50% of the water once a week. It helps reset the tank in terms of ferts and other essentials it's also a good amount if you are dosing with the EI method. You could change less or more depending upon your fert dosage and plant mass.

My Scapes

shekoi,

tetratech is right on, I change at least 50% (I tend to go maybe to 55 to 60%) every week.

NowherMan6,

Yeah, I know how that German guy felt, as I had to accustom myself to water here as well (and here is not only New Jersey ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
In the current issue of Aquarium Fish Magazine there is a six page article on rainbow fish. It talks about 7 new species of rainbows as well. Thought you might be interested.



My Scapes

Thanks tetratech,

I am a subscriber to Aquarium Fish Magazine and TFH


So I have seen the article a few weeks ago.

Thanks for thinking about me when you saw it,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,

Couldn’t it be at least once that the all-mighty Bensaf is wrong? ]:|

I did a really close observation of the Lugwigia flower stem, and what can I say – behind the Ludwigia stem is a small stem coming up carrying the 3 (now it’s 3) flower stems. And where does that stem start – at the Narrow Leaf Sagittaria.

So, have you seen my beautiful Sagittaria flower on the previous page?

Bensaf – you are the man!

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All hail Bensaf and his educated guesses!... I mean, mighty Plant Prowess!

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Back in the saddle!

I still think the Jersey water has something to do with it.
:%)

My Scapes

Bow down before my might you lesser mortals.

It was just an educated guess. Stems rarely if ever flower submersed and the flowers are always close to node, not on stalks. Sags and rossette plants on the other hand...... combined with the pic it was well, elementary my dear Ingo !

Sometimes having an I.Q. of 142 comes in handy

Yep I really am that smart, but you'd never know it from the way I behave and some of the dumb crap I've done in my life.:%)

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

bensaf,

Yeah that's most of us.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ah,

An IQ of 142 – I have a similar one, it’s the same numbers but written like 14.2

Anyway, let’s forget this embarrassing episode of me being able to flower stem plants in the tank .

Here are some new pictures:

First – tetratech, my Star Grass has reached the surface as well, even in the darkened corner of my tank. Please trim yours now so I can see what I should do .

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here are two of my pond snails making out on the rock. See the thread algae as well!

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last, a shot of the Rotala Macandra closing up for the night. The bubbles are not from a water change (which was last Sunday) but from respiration. And the plant is on the opposite side of the tank than the Reactor.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice pictures once again. Do you have quite a few pond snail in your tank? I had a good handful until I brought home the Skunk Loaches. Now I have only seen a couple of babys at nigth time. I was just wondering how bad they could get.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech, my Star Grass has reached the surface as well, even in the darkened corner of my tank
As I said, you Jersey people are so competitive. It's not enough that you took our Giants and Jets, now this. Well since your brought it up Stargrass Wars II
On the left is Jersey stargrass on the right is New York's variety. Maybe it's me, but I see more stars twinkling on the right.



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

I have to side with tetratech on this one and his photo skills.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Star Grass Wars 2 ???? The Algae Strikes Back?

Am I getting fuzzy are or did we do this already. About 567 posts back ?

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Yeah Yeah Yeah



Just make yourself happy

This photo was taken under half light and on top of it the plant is in the corner where only limited light is available. Just watch out if I ever should decide (a lot will depend on tetratech’s success after pruning) to give it a more appropriate spot in the jungle .

And tetratech, if my Star Grass should never be as pretty as yours is (and yes Man, yours is prettier) then I will put all my effort into getting the Yankees and the Mets to come to NJ as well .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Star Grass Wars 2
Uh, that's what the "2" is for.

Next up Star Grass Wars 3 - Revenge of Littlefish

This photo was taken under half light and on top of it the plant is in the corner where only limited light is available
As I take out my violin.

Last edited by tetratech at 20-Jan-2006 08:38

My Scapes

As I take out my violin.

That sounds like a challange. LF, you must move your stargrass to a more fitting location in your tank so it gets better light.

Remember, use the Forceps LF...

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Back in the saddle!

You just wait and see

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sounds like we got a Mexican standoff.

Neither will pull out the trimming scissors 'til the other makes the first move

Gunfight at the F.P. Coral. I can just see the two facing off in the middle of a dusty street, hands poised over their holsters containing their pruning scissors.A smoking Marlboro hanging from Ingo's lips, with that black hat you'd never know he was bald

Want to watch that tetra guy though, I hear he keeps a hidden forceps strapped to his ankle

By the time this is finished their Stargrass will have grown out of the tank and taken up residence on the couch

Now who's gonna blink first............?????????

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,
I'm glad you putting your 142 IQ to good use

I ain't cutting mine until it flowers like Ingo's Ludwigia Maybe if I raise mine out of the water with the BBQ stick for support it will.

It's truly amazing how perceptive you are through this medium. Your midi-chlorians must be off the scale

My Scapes

Are you using treated tap water or RO/DI water?

I'm glad you putting your 142 IQ to good use

Just reducing myself to level of those around, when in Rome ......

It's truly amazing how perceptive you are through this medium.

Maybe.It doesn't make much to figure you for a bit of a movie buff. Quotes from Jurassic Park, midi-chlorians which I assume to be a reference to Star Wars. Only the folks that have a real love of movies remember this stuff.
I studied psychology for a while. The human mind and it's workings fascinates me. And I'm assuming your not being sarcastic. Hard to tell, you hold your cards closer to your chest then most.

Your midi-chlorians must be off the scale

Darn right And I've got a cute butt too !

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

"Darn right And I've got a cute butt too !"

Now he's George Michaels. It's gettin' gay now.

Well, although tetratech might have a hidden forceps at his ankle, what he does know is that I am wearing a pinch-safe vest made out of small TMG bottles.

Man, I leave you guys alone for one evening and you turned this into a duel.

Tainted Glory – I am using tab water, treated with Prime, why?

DragonFish – I don’t get it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And I'm assuming your not being sarcastic
Well for the midi-chlorians statement, maybe

Darn right And I've got a cute butt too
I must admit, I'm trying to get a visual, but my IQ isn't as high as yours.

Tainted Glory,
Are you referring to Stargrass Wars and the water we use.

Dragonfish,
Your scaring me!




My Scapes

I was referring to water. The reason is, I'm new to planted tanks and am going to go full blown in the next few days and want to iron out the details before that happens.

Mike,

If the tab water is not poisenous, and matches the general requirements of the tank as well, then I personally don't see a reason why I would want to use RO water. Imagine all the goodies you get in the water for free that you would have to add to RO water.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

THanks Ingo. I'm definetly going to be asking you a lot of redundant questions, so bare with me! I hate to clutter your thread-this is the last silly post-promise. What substrate do you recommend? I was thinking of using flourite or the like and creating a gravel area front and center. I'm going for something along the lines of an Amano tank in TFH a while back. Maybe you recall? It was the article about driftwood in the nature aquarium I believe?

Mike,

You know, I am actually not qualified to recommend any substrate as I have only used one kind in my 3 tanks, Laterite in the bottom layer of gravel. It for sure would be worthwhile if you create a new thread and ask a broader audience about their expertise.

This question is actually pretty applicable to this tank though. I am occasionally wondering if I should have used another substrate or if I should try to change mine bit by bit. The one thing I don’t like is that is it is too light, but at the same time not bright enough to make an impression. The gravel was initially (in the bag and when placed in the tank) a deep river stone color, but now it is mostly just a drab brown. But will all my plants my gravel only plays a minor role, most of it is not visible anyway. The other thing that I don’t like too much about it is that it is not fine enough. It is just pea size gravel, but I think I would like it better if it would be smaller.

The one thing that doesn’t make a difference for me is the substrate’s ability to serve as a fertilizer. I am pretty happy with my plant growth and don’t see an advantage that I would gain by switching to Flourite or Eco-Complete.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The one thing that doesn’t make a difference for me is the substrate’s ability to serve as a fertilizer
I would tend to agree with that. Carib-Sea the provider of Eco Complete has this statement on their website.

"Eco contains all the mineral nutrients needed for luxuriant aquatic plant growth without nuisance algae! Iron rich Eco-Complete™ eliminates the need for laterite.
Natural black substrate encourages the most vibrant coloration in fishes and reduces fish stress."


I find that statement to be quite a stretch.

My Scapes

Weekly Update – Week 17

Well, very little time has been spent with the tank during the last week, given that I worked 11 hours each day and 13 on Saturday. This also means that the water change, which usually is on a Saturday, was today (Sunday).

Besides replacing water, this weekend’s maintenance stood under the motto “Remove the Glosso”. Because I intend to do this in weekly steps, to avoid too much dirt in the water column at once, I started with the area in front of, and in between, Rock Valley.

It sure was a mess and loads of gunk needed to be vacuumed out from the cleared section. This was the first time I used my regular vacuum without a filter (pantyhose) over it as it would have clogged up in no time. I didn’t use the python though, instead I vacuumed the gunk into a bucked (2 x 5G), just in case I suck out one of my fish .

Next week an additional section will be cleared of the Glosso. I actually leave very small plants in there, in case I decide that growing a new carpet is worth the effort. Let me know if you think the tank looks better with or without the Glosso.

Here are some weekly shots to show you recent changes. Also, look at the Rotala Macandra on the left and right, and the Star Grass at the right, to see some nice progress.

The Tank 2 weeks ago:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last Weekend:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Today, after the water change:

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of Rock Valley with the clean area in front and in-between. You may notice the Uruguaensis Sword in front of the valley. I had to save it from the back of the tank where it didn’t get any light and didn’t show any growth in about 6 weeks (at least). Behind it one can see some green just at the valley entrance. This is some Hair Grass that managed to survive the Glosso onslaught; I guess this plant is tougher than I thought.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Once again the Sword Uruguaensis, here you can see that it is in real bad shape. I know it cannot stay at this spot forever, but I couldn’t throw it out either.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the border between the cleaned area and the remaining thick Glosso carpet. One can clearly see the layers upon layers of Glosso that suffocate each other.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is one of the few pieces I left in the tank. It looked pretty healthy and maybe it will be the start of a new carpet.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, a close-up of a new Narrow Leaf Ludwigia – Eh – Sagittaria blossom. It has an air bubble trapped in its center.

LITTLE_FISH attached this image:

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I like the open area, haven't seen your gravel in a very long time!
The glosso really did grow into a (shag) carpet but it probably made cleaning a b**ch, eh?
That sword doesn't look too bad where it is but it will most likely outgrow that spot in no time.
What are your plans for the newly uncovered gravel?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Ingo

As always a nice looking tank. My only hopes is that my meager efforts will look half as nice on the new tank we've been discussing.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

First things first! The picture of the flower/air bubble is pretty darn sweet! I like it a lot.

The plant in the right front corner (Stargrass?). Is that a temp. home because it seems really out of place taking way from the flow of the tank. Its just way to tall.

Your plants are growing really really really well but there really really really needs to be something to break up the plants. Right now it seems like a jungle of plants and no true spot to focus on.

If you are going to leave the front open gravel I would say either do something with rock work like tetratech beach front or DW (sorry for bringing up the DW thing again). If you could find some darker plants like a wendtii crypt would help break things up a bit too.

Sorry to hear about all the hours you have been working. I hope it all pays off and you don't kill yourself in the process.


Post # 700 for me!!

Last edited by Wingsdlc at 22-Jan-2006 21:37

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I agree with Wings about some bare rocks or driftwood. I know finding large attractive pieces is hard but for the edge of the bare area you wouldn't need really large pieces, just a few medium sized pieces carefully placed to look like the naturally drifted there. A few strategicly placed darker crypts would also draw attention to them and break up all the green. Hope it makes sense, I wish I could get what's in my head out in type, but it just doesn't work. I just think the green is great but there's not enough contrast.
The stargrass is too tall for where it is. It may look better closer to the left side f the tank where there are taller plants. Not sure there though.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

We seem to be doing the same things.

I too removed my Glosso at the weekend.

I had only put it in out of curiosity as I'd never tried. Now I know I can grow it. Mission accomplished.

Like yours it had overgrown itself multiple times and needed to be cleaned up. I had removed with the itention of trimming and replanting but once out I realised that the the Erect moss had filled in real nice, some hairgrass that had come in with the Glosso had managed to get nicely established and the sand looked nice, so all in all it looked much better without it.

Just goes to show, Glosso is one of those plants that gets lots of ooh's and ah's and a lot of people aspire too, but in the end can be a bigger PITA then it's worth.

Like you I did keep some way off to one side. Just want to keep some going in case I decide to use in another tank. I really like it, but it's just not suitable for the current layout on this tank.

About the Uruquayensis, it will grow up nicely but slowly. I have one that I bought about the same size as yours , it took 4 or 5 months to start putting out leaves of a decent size (about 12". Once it starts the new leaves will continue to increase in size. You did right to move it. I mentioned to you before it's always going to be more of a mid ground plant rather then a background one.

Last edited by bensaf at 22-Jan-2006 21:21

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks everybody for the comments .

Yeah, the Star Grass was a small plantling that I added to the tank when I redid my 20G QT. I was curious as to what it may become (now I know) and later on served as a pawn in the Starr Grass Wars II . It is all the way to the top now and soon I will have to do something about it, just don’t know what yet.

Open gravel or not, I don’t know yet. I think I (we) will get a better idea once all the Glosso is removed, so in maybe 1 to 2 weeks.

The Uruguaensis did already put out quite a few new leaves and even gained a little height, but it became way too shaded in the jungle. There is still a Red Melon Sword in the left back (was a freebee) and it is hanging in. I don’t know if I want that one in the first place, but the cheap guy I am I couldn’t simply neglect the free plant . So overall I have 3 kinds of Swords (besides the grassy ones) in the tank that I am not sure of, as there is also the Red Rubin on the right. The problem I have with all of them is that they will take up quite some real estate on the gravel bed, meaning no other plant can be located very close to it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I too removed my Glosso at the weekend.
Yeah, but I'm the only one with a BLACK Sand Hawaiian, beach front.

I was curious as to what it may become (now I know) and later on served as a pawn in the Starr Grass Wars II
That poor plant, used as a pawn in your dirtly little war. Putting a plant out of place to compete. Isn't that against the AGA code of ethics.




Last edited by tetratech at 23-Jan-2006 04:41

My Scapes

Your tank pics are awesome

I'm trying Marsilea Quadrafolia (poor man's glosso). Fitting ! LOL..

Re: Your E. Ura. sword. My E bleheris died in a darker area of the tank, meanwhile my Ozelot Red in a better lit area is doing great so I hear you on plant positioning.

Regards,
DaMossMan

The Amazon Nut...