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It appears that Untitled switch over to a non-CO2 tank, cutting back on lights and nutrients and letting the tank balance itself that way.

Very nicely said. See that wasn't hard. Want to hear something really weird, I just looked at my regulator and it appears I'm out of co2. I don't remember when I got my refill, but it definitely went much faster the second time which makes sense.

My Scapes

No, no, I'm afraid there has been some misunderstanding.

The "soft blackout" as you call it was due to me being away and having no way/no one to dose my tank while I was away. When I came back I switched the CO2 back on and returned the lights to normal. This is really when the tank took off.

Some more details:
The tank volume is 200L (50G). It's medium planted, about the same plant mass as yours, Tetra. Plants are a combination of fast to medium growing plants. Lights have are the same as before. Fertilising is the same as before (a little bit of macros and micros every day). All other parameters (KH=2, GH = 3) are as before. Can't say I test too often but NO3 is around 10ppm, PO4 is 0.5 - 1ppm. And I did mean 4 - 5 bubles per second (again, something which is hard to really count).

The tank has been running with the high CO2 for about 4 months and was rubbish. It has been with low CO2 for the past 2 weeks. I know 2 weeks is not a very long time but I think that when adding CO2 2 weeks are enough to get a feeling of whether things are okay or not.

The reason I shared this with you is not because I belive that non-CO2 or low-CO2 tanks are better. I don't believe anything, I'm not into theorising anything and I'm definitely not trying to preach anything.

I did share this because I thought it would give you something to think and discuss about which I think has some relation to what you're already discussing (CO2 levels, that is). That's all.

I come in peace!

I did share this because I thought it would give you something to think and discuss about

And it sure did

I for one would like to hear about different approaches and success stories while doing so. The more options are given that lead to equal results the better it is, IMHO.

As tetratech said, there are loads of parameters that determine the outcome of a successfully planted tank, and with Untitled's medium planted tank, water conditions, ferts, and what not, he may have found the settings that suit him well.

I, on the other hand, am still searching for the right conditions. I can report that more and more of the BBA is turning reddish, but I also have to say that my thread algae is advancing again (slowly increasing since about 2 weeks now, becoming noticably more recently).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Why ?

Run with high light Co2 = things go bad, cut back light, stop Co2 return but back on Co2 and lights = things go well.

What does that tell you ?

Running with good light and Co2 the nutrients have to be there, constantly, even a temporary shortage will cause issues or stunting. Seems like something was missing or too low. Switch off for a while and everything slows down, less nutrients are required and waste builds up naturally. So when you come back and switch everything back on you are a little better off nutrient wise and everything goes better.

The sudden lack of light and Co2 tells the algae to stop reproducing. Adult algae has a very very limited life span compared to plants. A life span of a few weeks compared to a life span of many many years for plants.

That would be my take on it.

Nothing wrong with going against the Co2 grain, we've become a bit obsessed with it. A lot of people see it has a cure all when in fact it can cause a lot more issues then it solves if the nutrients aren't right.

The interactions between the nutrients are often forgotten. Nothing wrong with , say high P or K but these will both drive up N consumption. If the extra N is not supplied there will be more then likely issues, especially in tanks where there's a lot of fast growing stems. These will always be the first to be hit. There's a reason why Anubias/Ferns/Mosses are so easy to grow.

It's a lifestyle choice

Fast growth lots of work against the steady patient waiting game.

There's a lot of pondering about Amano's Co2 habits. Some say he runs a bit lower and only has the co2 on during his mid day burst of MH lighting. I guess nobody knows for sure. But his stem plants are never the fullest looking so maybe he does run low, but steady. His choice of stem plants are usually fairly simple.

I do believe the stability is just as important as the level.

Certainly my own experience is that the high level 20-30ppm does work better but it has to be stable and the nutrients absolutely must be right.

Having said that, I've said before that lower light and NO Co2 is the best bang for your buck in the long term. Yes the plant choice is limited and it's painfully slow but there are very rarely issues and it's a lot less work.

I had a low light no co2 set up for quite a while. Never had to dose ferts and I was very very happy with it. Looked good too, won the aquascaping contest here. When I changed to more light and co2, yes I could grow more plants, they were fuller and lusher but I also had a lot more headaches.

Lower light and lower Co2 seems to be less problematic too.

As I've said before it's the norm here in Asia to run with a lot less light and lower Co2. But the plant choices are different. Not so many stem plants used here, and usually it's fairly simple ones. Lots of Ferns, Mosses and Anubias,Crypts,Swords and Grasses. Hardscape is of equal importance to the plants so high growth rates are not necessarily desirable.The slower plant types put less demand on nutrients.

As I said it's a lifestyle choice.

It's also balance, and as is often forgotten plant choice is part of that balance as well as the nutrients, light and Co2.

As far as Ingo's issues - well I wouldn't worry about the Excel stopping pearling, that's just due to the de-oxygenating properites of the chems , doesn't mean the plants are doing less better.

If the plants aren't pearling now it's not a light issue. You had heavy pearling before with the same lights, so that can be ruled out.

It may be low Co2 or nutrients.

It may simply be you now have more fish consuming more oxygen therfore saturation of the water which will lead to pearling is more difficult.

If the gas and nutrients are good I wouldn't worry about the lack of pearling at all.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Yeah

Bensaf - nice balanced entry stating the advantages of low and high tech approaches, and even offering a middle path (which I believe is what Untitled has found)

I never had strong pearling, ever . I have no idea why that was the case, I guess some parameter is always off, no matter what I do. Or, pearling depends on other factors as well, like fish load, but I didn't even have it when there were only 15 fish in the tank (but then maybe other things were wrong).

What can I say - I am just not a pearler

Tankwise, the whole thing is starting to become upsetting. I don't even have a chance to truely scape this sucker, I am afraid that any removal of plants (fast growers) would instantly cause another algae bloom and as such I leave things mostly as is, besides the trimmings. This is for sure not how I would like the tank to look like in the end. Yeah - it may not be ugly, and yeah - algae may be limited, but just not what I want.

Soooo much to learn,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What can I say - I am just not a pearler

LF, I'm pretty sure I remember some of your beautiful pics that showed pearling. By the way before I got the ceramic diffusor my plants never pearled but their growth was excellent, so as Bensaf pointed out it's really not an indication of plant health.

Bensaf is right when he says it's a "lifestyle choice". I notice the difference between my 12g and 72g. The 12g does o,k, but nothing grows fast not even the wisteria and I'm dosing excel everyday with EI. There isn't alot of algae under the 27 watts of light so there is very little to do maintenance wise, which is a good thing because of the 72g.

Here's a couple of points:

1.
Maybe your lifestyle doesn't blend with a high-tech planted tank. I know you do weekly water changes, but maybe not seeing your tank enough doesn't allow you to "see" certain things before they become a bigger problem. I'm also starting to think constant trimming is a really good thing (if you have time to do it, which you might be, because of algae-infected leaves), because it drives uptake and makes the plants grow fuller creating even more mass.

2.
If you step back from your tank (go ahead do it)and really think about it, why should you have these algae problems. As discussed many times, your doing what the "Master" and I "his humble apprentice" are doing. Light my Dear Jersey Friend, LIGHT. Now I'm not implying that your light is bad, because it's not. But just like in the bigger ecosystem called Earth, light (the sun) is the driver of life and decides what happen in your little ecosystem.

We all know that when you have high light every changes, you need more co2, more ferts. In the same vein you provide more opportunity for life, which of course includes more algae spores joining the fun. Look what happens when a tank is near a window in sunlight. The most intense light of all. Your light even though your only doing a midday burst is very strong. As I said it would be like Bensaf and I running 4 to 5wpg. With that light on my tank I might be posting right now in a thread titled "Chaos Maximus II"

So after all this time, IMHO you need to take a step back and take a larger approach. You must reduce your lighting or do a combination of more water changes, less fish, less food and add more biofilter mass. I would also push the co2 as far as it can go and don't go light on the ferts. Remember it's a &*^% estimative index - Tetratech out.

My Scapes

Deep thoughts tetratech,

Yes, you did mention all these points before, and I guess a reminder once a week is a good thing

The pearling pictures of my tank were mostly post-water-change shots from a time when I didn't know about the corelation between pearling and new water .

About the light: although I hear you, and although I am close to try not turning my second row of lights on at all (as may be indicated by last weeks change of cutting down on the overall lighting period from 11 to 10 hours), I am not so sure that your evaluation of my light is proper. Remember that I have to light 2 more feet of tank than you do, that's 50%. Albeit the amount of wattage over the tank is larger, it is streched rather thin when looking at inches of lenght (and depth). Your light is focussed on a much smaller area.

I am with you on the fishload, one reason why I can't wait to have the 40G set up and thin out the crowd a little. Food has already been greatly reduced. CO2 is way up. Cleaning my filter more often may also be a good thing, I have cleaned it maybe 3 times in the last 40 weeks (not good I guess).

Ingo out

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have cleaned it maybe 3 times in the last 40 weeks (not good I guess).

In some tanks that might be fine, but not in yours.

I am not so sure that your evaluation of my light is proper

I certainly respect your opinion about the light, but please remember your light is twice as strong as mine and your tank is the same depth. I don't want to turn this into a technical breakdown of lighting, but that's a lot of light. Again the light isn't a problem in itself, but it needs a lot of support.




My Scapes

Yeah, maybe the problems are filter cleaning related as well, I will have to work on that

About the light, after re-evaluating your light (1/2 of mine) compared to tank size, I guess you are right, I have more than you do. What is your current light schedule?

Another option would also be that I still have some shortage on something, most likely Iron. I only use TMG for micros and never add a product like Flourish Iron on top of it. Do you guys think that would be a god idea? I have an Iron measuring kit, but identifying such small quantities by means of a sliding colored comparison chart is anything but accurate.

Thanks tetratech ,

Ingo (PS: my 4000'th post)

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I wouldn't worry about FE. The only reason I'm using Flourish Iron was to bring out some more red, but I never used a dedicated FE fert prior to that, only what little I got from dosing regular Flourish.

You do know when I started my tank I purposely bought a 36" light even though my tank is 48" because I didn't want 3.6wpg. My current lighting is 96 watts from 9:30 to 12:30, 192 watts from 12:30 to 6:30 and 96 watts from 6:30 to 8:30. So I only have 1.3 wpg for 5 hrs a day and 2.7 wpg for 6 hrs.

I really thing you should stop worrying about all the micro and macro levels. Just make sure they are in there your dumping them out once a week anyway. That's fine-tuning maybe you'll see slightly fuller grow or reddier plants, but I don't think they are the cause of your algae. Reduce light a little more, less food and try to maybe do 2 water changes a week for a while and see if there's any improvement. I bet there will be.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech for all the tips

Well, just to finish that light chapter, your light is on at 2.7wpg for 6 hours, mine is at high gear for only 3, or I better say it was as I changed it (more later).

I doubt that I will find the time to throw in another water change during mid-week, at least not in the next two months as work is a little crazy.

Anyway,

Weekly Tank Update - Week 35

Most of this week was back to my favrite (or most hated) topic, algae and its roots and control . The Excel treatment that I started last week began to show effects after a few days, but progress of these effects is sloooow. During this water change I trimmed quite a bit on the left side, the Pearl Grass reached a height that made it not so pretty anymore. Also, I shortened the left side stem plants as they were starting to redirect the flow of the CO2 bubbles.

All this talk (or writing) here finally got to me , and I am willing to try things:

- Filter cleaning will be on a 3 week schedule. I cleaned it this weekend and boy, it was dirty. May explain where all my N and P come from.
- I shortened the bright light period to 1 hour, with 10 hours lights-on overall.

Let's see what that does to the algae and to the light hungry plants

As I don't have too many pictures of the tank from this week, let's start with a short review of the tank ever since the driftwood was added, in week 19. Here is the tank at that stage, a rather small plant load has survived the major overhaul at that time.

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 19

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By week 24, things showed signs that this was all not working too well. The one plant that did really great was the Pearl Grass, I guess I could have planted the whole tank with it.

The other plants started to have major thread algae attachments, and all my tall "grassy" plants (helferi, sags, and retrospiralis) had a hard time to re-settle after being moved.

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 24

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Week 29 was pretty much the beginning of going back to square one and stuffing the tank with fast growers, or at least the back of the tank.

Nevertheless, algae still made its mark and could not be eliminated. The reasons for this are probably a combination of all the things tetratech ever mentioned to me .

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 29

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Here is the tank now from last week, as a comparison to the next shot. Many areas in the tank became fuller (compared to the previous shot from week 29), in particular the foreground needed more plant because the bare gravel was/is an algae magnet, mostly for threads.

That week (34) the tank had just received a major trimming.

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 34

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Here is the tank now this weekend. I think one can clearly see that growth in the tank is at least great, if not exceptional . Star Grass and Hygro have gained quite a few inches and probably will need some trimming next week again if this continues at that pace (or two the longest).

You can also see the trimmed left side with the little mound of green plants in the foreground:

Attached Image:

Tank This Week - Week 35

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Now some shots that mostly focus on the fishies, all tanken at low tide during the water change. This are the times when the best schooling in the Espei group happens.

Here are "some" of them in the middle section of the tank. Also, I trimmed the Pearl Grass in that area and cut off some algae infested leaves of the Wendtii behind it.

Attached Image:

Espei in the Middle

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May I say "Paludarium"

Sometimes I think I should convert the tank into a half-filled paludarium as emersed branches are always appealing to me. On the other hand, I guess I need a little more water for the 100 fishies

Attached Image:

Paludarium

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a (nice) shot of the tank Autobahn during water change. I don't know why, after so many weeks of doing this water change, the Espei always seem to worry that all the water will be gone. As such, they peruse the tank from left to right and back again, over and over.

This picture also shows you an overexposed look at the Wisteria foreground mound on the left of the tank with the trimmed Pearl Grass to its left. The Wendtii begind it also had its leaves trimmed (algae).

Attached Image:

Autobahn

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Here is a close look at the Espei group, hovering around the Wisteria mound.

Never ever did I see a situation in which all Espei swim into the same direction, at least one of the gang always appears to have a different opinion on where to go and what to do next. Wait a minute, isn't that how we work here as well ?

Attached Image:

Espei Closer

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Here are now a few pictures of some fishies other than Espei. Here is the male Apisto viejita II telling the surrounding fish to stay away from him. The rainbow looks like he is wondering why the Apisto doesn't want to play with him.

Oh, rainbows - I think I will add the 3 that are in the QT since 3 weeks a little later today. I hope the existing 5 (3m and 2f) will welcome them into their school, but new hierarchy "games" can be expected.

Attached Image:

Apisto

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Here are two of the 5 Rainbows in the tank, a male and a female. I think it is this female that sometimes worries me a little. She occasionally (so far 2 times within the last 3 weeks) seems to be on the onset of Dropsy, with her scales slightly sticking out.

I don't know if it is something in the water, or maybe she is egg-filled at these times. But the last time it went away within a few days by itself. Any guesses?

Attached Image:

Male and Female Rainbow

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Last shot:

An exceptionally rare good photo of my Pearl Gouramies. Tetratech - aren't they cute? Maybe you should think about getting these as your center fishies.

Oh, and if you wonder about my current Avatar, look at my entries in This Thread

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Lady and Sir Pearl

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Well,

With regards to setting up the new tank and the shovelling of fish between tanks, nothing is going to well

I still don't have wood and there is none in sight, but that is not the reason for this entry.

As announced in one of the texts above (I guess the one with the rainbows), I was plannning on adding the 3 from the QT to the main tank. And what do I see when I get ready to fish them out? ICH

All 6 fish in the QT have ich. I immediately did a 60% and then another 60% water change, but I haven't added any med yet. I am not sure what to do, treat and risk plant and fish health or let them try to fight it off? I will think about it until the afternoon.

I assume it came in with either the Rams (from animal super store ) two weeks ago or with the Rainbows (from fish auction) 3 weeks ago, but I did not see it until today.

This messes up the moving plans for at least 4 weeks for this tank as there is no way any fish would go somewhere else before that

Here you can see the tail of the Platy. The white dots are Ich, in case you didn't know.

Grrrrr, Ingo

EDIT: This was entry 2222 in this log, maybe this is a lucky day after all.

Attached Image:

Platy Ich

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Hi Ingo

Sorry to hear about the ich. What a pain. I'm far from an expert as you know, but I'll share my white spot experience. It always happens with new fish. I brought home a sailfin mollie & a plain white mollie & had them in QT. I noticed the sailfin acting strangely, funny shimmering movements & finally just laying on the bottom. I examined him as best I could and found the white spot. Shops were all shut on this Friday night & my LFS did not reopen until 10.30am next day. When I returned with the meds, the sailfin mollie was already dead, but clearly the remaining mollie was also sick. It was showing the spots & just laying on the bottom. Thought it was dead more than once. I followed advice given to me via this thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/27831.1.htm?15#& also advice in a pm Keith sent me. Basically this meant immediate 30% water change & treating with whatever white spot meds were available in LFS. Re dosing every three days, preceded by another 30% water change. The advice was to keep treatment up for minimum of 2 weeks (to make sure the disease was completely eradicated). During this time, the lights were to remain off, only minimal feeding, raise the tank's temperature & increase aeration. The recovery was so great, that this mollie gave birth while in the green murky water & has since gone on to have another lot of fry.

Depending upon what you use, be aware that some of the meds for white spot stain the silicone sealant in the tank, but plants usually cover that & it's in the QT tank anyway.

So that's what worked for me. I've heard others say they use a salt treatment, but I don't know the details. If you're interested, I can dig up Keith's pm & send it to you (it's on my work PC). if Keith reads this, I'm sure he send it to you himself.

Good luck with curing the ich.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Thanks for the input. I do have ich med at home, one of the best from what I heard in the past (I used to have ich twice in my 29G when that was my only tank), called QuickCure from Aquarium Products. This means that I pretty much know how I would have to treat, the question is only "should I treat?" None of the 6 fish (3 platies and 3 rainbows) shows any signs of distress or slowing down. I will think about it over lunch.

I guess to be on the safe side I will add it. My "therapy" is a 1/4 of the dosage, half because of sensitive fish (yeah - they are not tetras, but better save than sorry) and half again for plants, every other day for two weeks. In between 50% water changes. I guess I have my work cut out for me.

Also, I was thinking about redoing the QT this weekend (bored and not much else to do with the 40G just not getting set up). You know, other substrate and what not. But all has to be scratched as I assumed the only fish I had to take care off during the change would have been the 3 healthy platies .

Thanks Robyn ,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I've always used coppersafe at 1/2 dose with great success, but I would use what has been working. Could be another reason why a UV is a good investment.

Nice pic of the pearls. Ya know what, my rainbows have calmed down since putting them in and I'm starting to really enjoy them in the tank. The fence off once in a while, but otherwise swim together nicely. Maybe because there are now females they aren't going crazy.

Like the the Baby Duck. I usually get a couple landing in pool this time of year.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech

Yeah, I started treatment after we came back from the pool. This means the QT is off limits for any new fish for about 4 weeks (2 weeks treament plus 2 just to make sure).

Yeah, the pearls are nice, but so are your rainbows. Except - pearls do well as a pair while rainbows need a gang . So - go get more

Have fun,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey Ingo, I forgot to say how good the pictures were. Thinking more about your sick fishies, although it seems like you've caught it early if no-one is showing any signs of slowing down or distress, unlike mine who by the time I realised what was happening, it was too late for one of them. I agree with tetratech that you should use what worked before. I dosed at half strength, as there were rasboras in the tank too. Maybe that's why the fry survived the treatment (though I didn't even know they were there until I removed the meds after treatment - couldn't see a thing in there for 2 weeks).

Anyway, as usual the tank looks beautiful - your pics are always great.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Didn't even notice that you didn't say anything about the photos/main tank . I was too busy thinking about the Ich myself.

Yeah, I am glad that I caught it in time, actually I am even more glad that I caught it BEFORE adding the Rainbows to the main tank.

Lesson No.329: when transferring fish from tank to tank at home, first check the fish for an illness.

Yeah, I am confident that the fish in the QT will be fine (keeping fingers crossed though). What bugs me is all the extra work (bi-daily water changes) and the fact that I felt like really changing the tank today .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Lesson No.329: when transferring fish from tank to tank at home, first check the fish for an illness.

Yep - for sure. Here's the next lesson:-

Lesson No. 330: when transferring previously sick fish, delay transfer for at least 2 weeks after recovery from treatment, in case of relapse.

As you know, I just learnt that one myself over the weekend. But I know from your earlier post, that you already knew this.

Anyway, good luck.

Cheers
TW

There has not been much new to report about this tank in the last few days. I seem to identify a slight decrease in thread algae on the upper levels of the branches though. I cannot tell if this would be already the effect of the changes light period, or the cleaned filter, or the Excel that I sprinkled on them

The one thing that worries me a little is the fact that one of the female rainbows shows signs of dropsy. I mentioned this earlier as something that seems to come and go, but the last 2 days have been "blown up". She is still eating well, and also has the power to swim through the current of the spray bar, but she hangs more often by herself in less turbulent waters than she used to.

Otherwise, check my 40G Tank Thread for setup issues.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo, sorry to hear about the rainbow. I think I lost 2 guppies to bloat. I removed them to QT (as I'd heard it is contagious - don't know if that's true though). I lost them both, as I didn't really know how to treat them. Tried a few treatments, but nothing worked.

If yours do end up having bloat, I'd be interested to hear your treatment.

Good luck with them.

Cheers
TW

The one thing that worries me a little is the fact that one of the female rainbows shows signs of dropsy. I mentioned this earlier as something that seems to come and go,

Could be just constipation. Can look a lot like bloat but will disappear in a couple of days.

Try feeding them a couple of thawed frozen peas, but remove the skin. Rainbows love these and will devour them , they also help keep the fish "regular".

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Try feeding them a couple of thawed frozen peas, but remove the skin

I think what I should try is to get the resulting frenzy on camera. No doubt all my fish in the 125G would go crazy over peas and I would probably have to spend 1 hour to remove the skin of enough peas so that the "sick" rainbow for sure would get her share.

I don't really want to separate her (additional stress) but it may be the best option in the long run. In particular because I currently treat the QT for Ich, she should probably better stay where she is.

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Being I have been gone for some time. Whats the word on the Rams? I have kind of looked a few pages back but didn't see anything....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

- didn't make it, died within 3 days. Probably left me some ich as a reminder, treating the QT right now.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

just wondering are the apistos showing signs of breeding yet? their such a great looking fish u should get them to breed...

bratyboy2,

No visual signs of breeding yet. I think I mentioned it on my last weekly update, both male and female are out and about way too often to maintain any potential brood somewhere hidden in the tank. With this many fish (about 100) in the tank there is no way the fry would survive too long while the parents are gone. Maybe a few would, but as much as I know these fish grow very slow and as such would serve as "food" for a long time.

Thank you on the compliment on these fish, I really like them as well. I mentioned way back that the female with her yellow base color and black markings is just a stunningly beautiful fishie

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Sorry about the rams.... We just got a batch of them in yesterday that look really nice. Might have to bring some home and try out my luck with them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

Just be careful. I would almost assume that your tanks will have to go through some settleing phase after the big move. Maybe you should wait until all has been identified as stable.

Question regarding my tank to all:

I just came back from the welding supply store and, needing a new CO2 bottle for the other tank anyway, I bought a 10lbs one. It will be hooked to this tank and the previous 5lbs will go on the 40G. The next choice I have to make is regarging the regulator. The new one I bought is supposedly better and more accurate (great needle valve) that the current one. Initially I thought about using this one on this tank, but I believe that a more accurate and stable setting is more important on the 40G, as mistakes would lead quicker to disaster.

Do you guys and gals agree?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,

Lucky me. Good that I decided to buy a bottle for the other tank, or this tank, as shortly after lights on in the basement I discovered that the current bottle was going on empty. The main pressure meter was already all the way down, although the bubble rate was still ok. The welding store did not have any 5lbs bottles anyway, so my only choice would have been the 10.

Anyway, here is the bigger bottle in place. Fits nicely. Oh, and btw, the color of the bottle is gray because the welding store distinguishes gases by the color of the bottle - CO2 = gray

Attached Image:

New 10 Pounder

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Another thing that happened even before the water change was an attempt to feed the female rainbows (yes, both of them) some peas. By now both show signs of dropsy, and the one with less severe signs is actually behaving more "sick", being close or at the survace at all times. So - how do I feed 2 rainbows with 100 hungry fish in the tank? I decided to capture them and place them in a plastic container and feed them there. All worked out except they didn't eat. Here they are:

Attached Image:

2 Female Rainbows in Container

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As you can see, in particular the left one has some major pine-coning going on. I thought about what to do and decided to add them to the QT. In the worst case, I would lose 8 fish, these two, 3 males rainbows, and the 3 resident platies. This decision was made even more difficult as the QT is currently undergoing Ich treatment. By evening, they looked and behaved the same, but they were eating flake food just as eagerly as usual.

Could it be that the problem is egg-load related?

Here is a close-up of the worse one:

Attached Image:

Dropsy

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OK, let's move on

Weekly Tank Update - Week 36

Not much has happened during this week, plants have been growing and algae seems to have been stable. This was a full week with the new light schedule, 10h total with 1h high light. I only trimmed one stem of the Hygro angustifolia, all other plants are planned to be pruned next weekend so I can add them to the new tank (keep an eye open for a new log then).

For comparison, here are a series of shots spanning the last 2 weeks since the last major trimming.

Here is the tank in week 34:

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago - After Major Trimming

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One week after the previous shot, growth had been good, but nothing special though. I guess during the first week after a major trim the plants need to re-settle first before they can focus on growth.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Tank One Week Ago

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Now here is the tank as of last evening. As you can see, growth has been strong. The Star Grass reaches the top in quite a few spots, and the Hygro is threatening to shade the whole right area even after I removed a major stem (is for now in the 29G). I also cut off a runner from the Wisteria, it was growing into the Blyxa, and placed it next to the Nana Petite. I might take the Petites out as well and add them to the 40G, will see.

Attached Image:

This Weekend, After Water Change

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Now here are a few closer shots of plants and fish.

To start off, this is the worst spot in the tank, with regards to gravel algae coverage. This happens although I weekly vacuum the front of the tank. I cannot remove the algae threads as they are attached to the gravel and I basically would have to remove the entire top layer in order to make sure that it is gone.

Attached Image:

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Here is a close-up of the Star Grass on, and close to, the surface. This picture was taken a while after the water change, so the bubbles can be attributed to the change and not "natural" pearling in my tank. I hope the plants will be able to grow for one more week without killing each other.

Attached Image:

Star Grass

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Here is a picture of the Narrow Leaf Java Fern. This plant has been doing nicely, maintaining a constant growth rate, albeit rather slow. This weekend, I separated one of the young plants onone of the leaves and planted it to the left of its mother at the spot where the main ranch of driftwood is splitting.

Also, you can see the nice green carpet of threads on the driftwood and the rock behind it. If it would be static only on these entities then I wouldn't mind at all, it would be the shortest foreground plant one could wish for.

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern

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Here is a close-up of the Hygro angustifolia forest on the right side of the tank. These plants are growing very nicely, in just a few weeks I creates enough material for this section and another 4 or 5 stems that are currently in the 29G.

In this picture you can also see a few of my other plants, from anubias over crypts and pearl grass to the Alternantheras.

Attached Image:

Hygro Field

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Make sure to look at the pictures on bottom of previous page

Now here is a shot of the area just to the left of the Hygro. The gravel is the same area as the close-up shot a few pictures back. The Alternanthera in this picture is also growing strong, and so is the Star Grass and the Wisteria. For some reason, ever since I did the major change when adding the wood - the Narrow Leaf Sags, Dwarf Sags, and Pygmy Chain Swords have been sub-par, to the point where they are dying off. Only a few seem to be able to maintain their size and keep on growing new leaves.

Attached Image:

Alternanthera in Green

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Here is a shot showing the entire middle section of the tank. In itself, this part would make a nice tank, maybe I should close off the sections to the left and right of it and only use this part.

Without even trying, I am sure that there are at least 10 different plant species in this picture. Some day I will have to start scaping that mess.

Attached Image:

Mid Section Of Tank

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Ok, now to a few fish pictures.

The first one is actually from the QT, this is the boss rainbow over there. I am curious how these two groups of 3 males each (3 in main, 3 in QT) will work out the hierarchy once I move the QT group.

This is the current boss rainbow fish in the QT.

Attached Image:

Male Rainbow

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As you can see from the last picture, no sign of Ich. All visual spots on the rainbows were gone within 3 days, the Platies needed a day or two longer. Nevertheless, treatment will go on for one more week, and then I will maintain them for another 2 weeks in the QT before considering to move them to the big tank. I have to be patient although I imagine a group of 6 males as a very nice formation.

Here is the Boss Male again.

Attached Image:

Boss Male

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Next, and second to last, is a close-up of the male Apisto in the greens of the tank. With the green background and the effects of the 6,700k lighting, it seems like his base color would be yellow, but it is actually more white.

He is a beauty and I am glad I got the pair, even if there would be no breeding ever. I have seem no aggression from this fish to any other in the tank, although the younger Espei tend to stay further away from the male, just to be sure they would not end up as a snak.

Attached Image:

Male Apisto

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Here is the last shot, of the male Apisto again. This time he is swimming in front of a background that shows his natural coloration a little better.

I find his fins to be very graceful, and so is the entire behavior of this fish. There is never a situation where he darts around, he always swims slowly and is on the lookout for foor (either on the substrate or from me). All other fish in the tank take flight when I come close (they may return later though), but not the Apistos. I always pet the glass in front of them and they seem to respond by coming even closer (I know - I lost it ).

That's it for now,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Male Apisto Again

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Beautiful shots as usual Ingo. Always like to check them out. Glad the ich treatment is going well, but sorry to hear of the rainbows with suspected dropsy. I'll be interested to hear how you treat them. I lost 2 guppies to dropsy (I think - no pine coning though. They looked heavily pregnant, but being males, that wasn't the case). I tried a broad spectrum treatment and later tried sulfa, both to no avail. I hope you have better luck and that I can learn from your treatment.

Cheers
TW

Good that I decided to buy a bottle for the other tank, or this tank, as shortly after lights on in the basement I discovered that the current bottle was going on empty

I don't know if you noticed, but I mentioned I think about 10 days ago that I had to refill my cansister on my 72g again. I also think I messed something up, because my low pressure gauge which usually reads around 10 to 20 psi is now all the way to the right at like 120

The 10lb is a good idea considering now with increased co2 I'm going thru 5lb bottles, what every 4 months or so.

Anyway, you probably don't have to take the fish out to feed them. Here's a pic of what I do to feed my rams who never get any food with the 40 or so tetras swimming around, plus two rainbows:

I simply put some food ( I usually do this with frozen bloodworms) right in the net and they swim into it. They seem to be more trusting than the cardinals



Attached Image:


My Scapes

This is an awesome shot tetratech

Your rams swim right into the net for feeding, I love it. See, in my tank the male rainbows and Apistos would probably be in the net, while the females would not get a chance.

every 4 months or so

In my tank, the first 5lbs botte lasted about 23 weeks, this was when I was injecting less CO2. The last 5lbs bottle lasted only 13 weeks to reach the "almost empty" stage.

Robyn - I am not an avid fish treater. Dropsy can be cause by so many things that identifying the right medicine is a question of luck rather than symptoms. If the females will not improve within a few days, or if they get worse, then they will have to go to fish heaven

Ingo

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Thanks LF!

You could see the male is completely inside the net and if you look closely you could see the bloodworms thru the netting.

Getting back to your tank, I like the shot on top page 91 and of course the male apisto.

Not to sound like a pitchman for UV, but your spending alot on your tanks why not add a UV. Not necessarily for GW, but to rid the tanks of pathogens that might be adding to the stress of new fish. Look what happened with my cardinals when I added the UV. I have a survival rate of like 95% as opposed to 50%. I'm pretty sure many fish carry these internal bacterial infections, etc but you would'nt know it until the fish is stressed. I haven't had any ich or other visible illnesses since adding the UV. My plants are obviously not hurting over it. I once posted a forum/poll about UV usage at APC and one Greg Watson replied that he uses one 24/7.





My Scapes

and one Greg Watson replied that he uses one 24/7

- One Greg Watson

I will have to think about that. Basically I understand the profits, but so far the only fish to get ill in the tank are all 3 female rainbows (one a few months back that is euthanized by now). That seems to specific to be a coincidence. I wonder why that would be? Is there maybe some issue with female Dwarf Neon Rainbows?

Oh, when you get a chance, PM me your APC screen name as I forgot it a long time ago. Bensaf's and mine are not that hard to figure out.

Ingo

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Well, the fist female rainbow has been put down. After lights on this morning I noticed that she still was close to the surface at all times and rather often than not went up for air. Also, there were two noticable spots on each side that seemed odd, lighter in color with little to no texture, about 1/2 inch in diameter.

She didn't put up a fight when I captured her, she must have been really weak already.

The other one seems to be doing a little better, she is interacting with the male rainbows once in a while. Interestingly, she is the one with the more distinct cones.

Ingo

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If the females will not improve within a few days, or if they get worse, then they will have to go to fish heaven

Sadly, that's where mine went. Sorry about your Rainbow.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn,

I guess that kind of stuff happens, and we can only go so far when trying to "save" one or the other of them. Maybe the other one will pull through, she certainly is way more active now and eats well (although she did not like the peas that I tried to give her today again, one bite and she had enough of it, just like my son).

Ingo

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Ingo,

I don't blame it with the peas. Yuck . Sorry to hear the other one didn't make it. Hopefully this will be the end of your fish troubles for a while. You have enough to worry about with setting up the new tank.

They tank pictures look great as usual. I still can't get over how cool that apisto is.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Thanks Rick for the input,

Yeah, the Apistos are very nice, but I think your 10G would be too small for them (in case you wondered), for two reasons:

- The 8 fish you added this week
- The territory that a male Apisto requires to claim his own

All you have to do now is show these pictures to your wife very often until she likes them as much as you do. Once hooked it is easy to convince her that you would "have to have" a larger tank for them

Ingo

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I've shown her pictures of a lot of tanks. The problem is she wants new furniture in the living room. So she is effectivly holding any large tanks hostage until she has a whole living room set.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Yeah, I know how that goes. I had to promise to move out of my office in order to "squeeze" in the new tank for the basement.

You give some and you get some, in fish tanks and everything else in life.

Ingo

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Weekly Tank Update - Week 37

Gang,

I don't have too much to report on the tank this weekend as I was very busy yesterday setting up the 40G Breeder. That tank has now It's Own Log, in case you haven't seen it yet.

The biggest thing besides trimming was a dicovery that happened in connection with the other tank. When setting up that tank I thought that the light looks so much whiter than the one on this tank. I thought they may have given me the wrong bulb for the 40, but it is a 6,700K. So I assumed my light in the big tank may be buring out or something. I looked at the lights and what do I find: I have the 5,000K lights on as the main lights for 10 hours a day but added the 6,700K only for one hour midday. Could that be the reason for my algae problems? I think 5,000K is not bad, but could it be that it favors growth of algae more by not being optimum for plants? Let me know what you think.

On to the trimming: The tank was in serioud need of a trimming as I did let it grow so I have clippings for the 40. Unfortunately I don't have a before picture, but I will show the shots of the last 3 weeks and you can estimate on how tall the Star Grass and the Hygro angustifolia must have become.

Here is the tank 3 weeks ago, after its last trimming:

Attached Image:

3 Weeks Ago

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Just a week later, growth had already picked up again. I sure cannot complain about the speed with which my fast growers shoot up.

If it should be the case that they grow even faster with 6,700K all day then I will have to trim soon every other week.

Here is the tank 2 weeks ago.

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago

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Last weekend was the time when the tank should have had a trim, but I decided to wait until this weekend. This is always risky as, in particular with the star grass, very little to no light reaches the bottom anymore and the lower parts of the plants start to rot. This, of course, is not good for the water condition.

Here is the tank last weekend, the Star Grass is already on the surface in various spots.

Attached Image:

Last Weekend

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Here is the tank now after this weekends trimming. The process was a bit unusual as I first went in and cut off some nice looking tops from the Star Grass, Hygro angustifolia, and Wisteria to add them to the new 40G. After that tank was set up I uprooted all star grass, weeded out the bad stems, and replanted the shortened stems.

I did not trim anything else as the day was winding down, when all was said and done I had spent 12 hours on the two tanks. As such, the tank doesn't look its best. I already switched which lights are on for the full day, to the 6,700K.

Here is the tank last night:

Attached Image:

This Weekend

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I also only have 2 detail shots.

The first one is of the Espei. Because I was messing around all day in the room (setting up the other tank), they must have been "a little worried". I have never seen them school so nicely for such an extended period of time and not only during a water change or when someone bangs at the tank. Let me tell you, 70 fish in formation is a beautiful sight that cannot be captured in a picture.

Here are some of the Espei in a colorful aquascape.

Attached Image:

Espei in Scape

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Last picture already:

This is the upper middle section after the trim. The Star Grass is not even really visible anymore, the bright green comes from a huge Wisteria stem that eventually will need trimming itself.

I took this picture because I like the color contrast between plants and wood.

Attached Image:

Colors

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Hi,
Beautiful pictures LF.
When I started using timers and advocating timers on the
aquarium, my goal was to mimic the tropical noon day sun.

Our plants have been grouped into low, medium, and high
demand categories.

Generally the low demand plants are
plants that grow under a heavy canopy of overhead trees
that block out most of the light, and we figure these to
flourish with around 1-1.5 watts per gallon.

Medium demand plants generally receive some direct sunlight
during only a part of the day and spend the remainder
shaded. These flourish with 2 watts per gallon.

High demand plants grow out in the open and receive direct
sunlight all or most of the daylight hours. These plants
do best with 3+ watts per gallon.

In my 30G tank, I have two 65 watt, 6700K compact
fluorescent bulbs. Each has its own timer as I'm rarely
around to turn the things on/off with any regularity.
My canopy has two switches, one for each light and one
that turns on the fan/light combination. The light/fan
combination is connected to a timer that gives me 10 hours
of light at a 2.5 watt/gallon rate. The second light is
set for four hours in the middle of the 10 hours, to
simulate the directly overhead sunlight and gives me
4.3 watts/gallon, or, noonday sunlight on my tank.

In experimenting with fast growing stem plants, and slow
growing plants such as ferns and crypts, I have found that
allowing the stem plants to hit the surface and spread out
across it, provides a "canopy" that shades the low light
plants. It looks really natural, and at the same time
encourages the lower light demand plants to grow faster
and with larger leaves. I tried experimenting with the
thickness of the "mat" that the stem plants created, and
found that one or two layers were, for me, more ideal
than 3 or 4 layers. The larger number of layers made the
center of the tank a bit too dark, for me. It was just
too subdued.
I found that if I neglected to thin out the mat, and
then later "drastically" cut it back to expose
direct light on the plants, that some of my plants
would flower and then the flowers would close up over
a week or so as the stem plants were again allowed
to spread across the surface.

The Tetras that I have in the tank, seem to be more
comfortable with a one or two layer of plants across the
surface swimming throughout the tank, whereas they some
times avoided the open center "swimming area" when there
was just open space above.

Just some thoughts/observations.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank,

Do you store these statements on your PC so you can pull them out whenever a related question arises or do you have to write these "books" over and over again

I assume your entry was in reference to my light question. I would like to thank you for this truely elaborate answer .

Ingo

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Hi Ingo,
No, they are not stored. Yup, I wrote it in response to
your lighting comments. I guess it is the ex-teacher in
me that causes me to write tomes, instead of one liners.
The one burning question I have always had, and drove my
parents and teachers nutz with was a simple word...WHY.

I have never been one to accept something just because it
was told to me. Burnt fingers (something was hot that
should not have been), and painted fingers (is it really
wet) were sort of my "trademark."
Honestly, I hope it helped you, or at least gave
you something to think about, and I hope it helps
your readers.

Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank,

That is a wonderful analysis of how one's canopy affects the other plants in the tank. I hope aquarists will take advantage of that very nicely crafted response.

Makes me think about my tank alot as my main center area reaches the top every few weeks. I actually love the way it looks sometimes with the plants growing across the surface, but if I keep it going to long my Blyxa and riccia are out of luck, but as you point out when the canopy is trimmed I could see the Blyxa and Riccia smiling again.

Well done

My Scapes

Frank - - I can imagine how you used to simply talk a student silly when he/she questioned why he/she got a particular grade on a test.

Thanks again for writing so much on the topic on lighting, and shading, but I nevertheless have to dig into my original question again:

Could it be that the fact that the 5,000K were on for 10 to 11 hours, and the 6,700K only for 1 to 3 hours, has caused my algae issue to be as bad as it is?

On the general statement of shading and plants growing along the top, I couldn't agree more with you. Every time I do a water change the plants hanging over the rest of the tank look just stunning. But, be carful what you shade out. I once lost almost all my Ludwigia because I decided that my Crypt Retrospirals floating over it looks very nice. Almost too late did I discover the fact that half the Ludwigia were already dead.

Ingo

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Hi Ingo,
Back to the original question... Answer - I'm not sure.

Ben seems to think that algae is caused, not necessarily
by the light, but by the nutrients or lack of within any
given tank.

I suspect, in your case, that the problem lies with what
you have in the tank as plants. You are trying to
house over a dozen different species, all with different
demands, in the same tank.

The difference in lighting, I don't believe, is helping
your situation at all and frankly, I'd switch to two lights
of the same K rating. As you probably can guess, I'd use
the 6700K rating for my choice. The 5000K rating is more at
the red end than the 6700K. While I mention that, keep
an eye on the age of the bulbs. As they age, they shift
in output. Not necessarily so drastically that we
humans notice it, but they do shift in Kelvin rating
as the bulb ages. I have seen, and read about, algae
retreating when aged bulbs are replaced. To combat that
in my tank, when it comes time to replace my Compact
Fluorescent bulbs, I throw away the bulb that is the
10hr/day bulb, and move the 4 hr/day into its place.
Then I place the new bulb into the 4 hr slot and so on
each year.

With light as the engine, and the nutrients as the fuel,
the plants grow. As we know, they take up nutrients at
different rates, depending upon the species. Also some
species are more adept at taking nutrients from the water
column, and others from the substrate depending upon the
chemical form of the nutrient. Perhaps you have added
some form of nutrient that is tipping the scales as it
is not usable in its current form by some/many of the
plants.

Have you removed the bulk of the "fast growing" plants
and, over time, replaced them with too few slow growing
plants, or vice versa?

I realize I'm casting a rather large net here, but I don't
honestly know THE problem with your tank. I suspect that
the tank has aged as a whole, and all of the changes that
have occurred, along with the plant mix, and the nutrient
"soup" has lead to the algae problem. It took my 55 a
little over a year, with growing Oscars in it, to mature
and settle down. All these variables... the scale has
tilted to favor algae.

Lots to think about, but nothing definitive to act on.
Perhaps Ben might have some thoughts...

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

To be honest having tried all sorts of bulbs (At the moment I have a strange mixture of 10,000K, 12,000k and 4,700k) I've never seen anything to suggest that plants prefer one spectrum over the other and certainly nothing to suggest one spectrum promotes algae more then another.

Where the more reddish spectrums do have a problem is penetrating the water, the vast majority of the light is dissapated before it gets down to the bottom. This may cause issues where the lower tiers of plants are not getting enough light and don't grow as well as they could.

This may cause issues but it's an indirect impact rather then a direct "5000k is no good for plants" or "5000k promotes algae" thing.

I'd certainly change it around and have the 6700k on most of the time. If nothing else the tank will look better to the eye.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I'd certainly change it around and have the 6700k on most of the time

That is what I did this weekend. Actually, I literally had to switch the bulbs in the unit as one row is connected to the fan (the one that comes on midday when all lights are on) and simply switching powercords in sockets would have meant that the fan would have been on all day. That, in turn, is noisy, a waste of energy, and burns out the fans faster.

I hear you Bensaf on the K not directly causing the algae, but I also read the indirect effects it can have. This makes sense to me and I can assume that the earlier constellation of my lights caused more bottom plant rotting and as such more algae. I guess the switch should help then.

On a different topic: I had to put down the other female rainbow in the QT last night, she was not eating anymore and constantly on the surface . That means that the only fish I lost so far in the big tank (don't count initial loss of Otos) are all 3 female rainbows. Coincidence?

Ingo

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Hi,
Interesting...
Actually, I would recommend that you run the fan all the
time a bulb is burning. In other words, the exact opposite
of the way you have yours set up. Compact Flourscent
bulbs burn hot. The heat in combination with the humidity
can cause the electrical insulation to become brittle and
crack. Additionally, the heat can affect the clear plastic
pannel that slides between the bulb and the tank (splash
guard).
In my fish room, I run three computers and two transmitters
all with fans, 24/7/365, so I don't even notice the
fan noises.

I suggest that you might want to reverse your thinking on
the light/fan.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank,

Good thinking, but no .

The fixture is designed to have the fans on only when all 4 lights (96w each) are turned on. Heat emission is not an issue with 2 lights only (remember, they form a line and are not paralell to each other) and the smaller units (any single strip PC from Coralife) don't even come with fans.

In addition, the unit is elevated on legs so enough air circulation is present around the lights. And on top of it all, the tank is in the basement that is rather cool, even during hot summer months.

I a room where the Eheim filters hum so quietly that I have to get real close to check if they still work, the sound of two fans is really obvious. Right now, I can hear the bubbles emitting from the diffuser, that is pleasant, in particular if just one floor up the monsters (aka kids) are on the lose.

Silence and tranquility, nothing goes better with fish

Ingo

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I suggest that you might want to reverse your thinking on the light/fan

Interesting, I do currently have my fan on all day, only because it's linked to the front bulb of my fixture and I want the bowfront to get the most light possible. I also have a coralife dual cf and it only comes with one fan. I used to have a Current USA fixture that was also dual cf and it actually came with 2 separate fans on their own powercords and it was a real pain to plug in 4 separate fixtures. The coralife fixtures do run surprisingly cool and even with my fixture sitting only an inch or so above the glass top there are no issues. The Current USA fixtures used to run extremely hot even with the two noisy fans running. I have a very low opinion of their products and they can't hold a candle to Coralife.

My Scapes

Oh, speaking of brands and the quality of their products:

Nice story, I ordered 3 200W Stealth heaters a little while ago, one for the 40, and one each for the 125 and 29. Before that, I already purchased 2 of them. Overall, I opened 4 packages so far (the fifth is still in the box) and 2 of them had pieces missing (suction cups and holders for them).

So, on Sunday I e-mailed the maker of the heaters stating that issue and on Monday morning I had a reply asking me for my address and that they are going to send out these pieces asap.

Very nice,

Ingo

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Nice story, I ordered 3 200W Stealth heaters a little while ago, one for the 40, and one each for the 125 and 29. Before that, I already purchased 2 of them. Overall, I opened 4 packages so far (the fifth is still in the box) and 2 of them had pieces missing (suction cups and holders for them).

That's Marineland right? That could also be a distributor issue also? If the boxes don't have a wrapping on them those little parts end up falling out alot.

My Scapes

No tetratech, that's Aquarium Systems. And the heaters are sealed in a plastic container too strong to be opened with the teeth.

I also told them that, in particular because of the solid packaging that had not been tempered with, I decided not to e-mail the distributer (reseller) but them directly.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh O.K. I thought it was one of those unwrapped boxes with the stuff just thrown inside.

Anyway talk about quality control. I bought a pair of Nike Shox. Actually my wife did because I tore a ligament in my knee and she thought the extra cushion would help. So I'm walking around, just walking and "boom" I go down, one of the shox fell off. So here I am wearing these sneakers to help me and they hurt me. I returned them for another pair and a week later "boom" a shox falls off the second pair. Serious manufacturer defect, so I go back again and the retail store wouldn't take them back because I didn't have my receipt this time.

I don't tink so Let's just say the store was unable to ring up any more merchandise until they reconsidered and gave me credit.

My Scapes

So taking care of the customers: At my store the bosses wont carry a product if the the owners of that product wont back the store on issues with it. If the store doesn't get backed then it is hard to help the customers.

Lighting: On my tank I have a mix of fast and slow growers. Much more fast than slow growers. I don't really know what I want to do with the tank yet but I am thinking of putting all the slow growers tucked up clow the fast growers. Hoping that this will kill off any of the spot algea I have been gettng on them.

Rainbows: Are these guys touchy with Ph swings? I have been losing them in my tank really slowly with no signs. In my tank right now the Ph is about 7.2 in the AM before the lights/CO2 come on, about 6.8 at night right before the lights/CO2 go off. Normal Ph for here is about 8.2 or 8.4. Might this be the cause for loss?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech - I can only imagine how you were holding the store hostage

wings - I don't think a ph swing of 0.4 would cause too many fish to die. I recently was at my most trusted LFS and mentioned the loss of all of my females. The guy in charge of ordering said that he loses quite a few of them during shipment. Maybe they are not all that hardy, but he has no explanation on why I may have lost only females. Also, if I remember that right, then females also have a deeper body when they mature. Mine never did and they were rather streamlined. Just maybe I didn't even have female rainbows.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

tetratech - I can only imagine how you were holding the store hostage
Yeah I guess I was kinda holding the store hostage or more like "a fly in the ointment" I was really pissed.

Anyway should I be worried about my Bosemani. How long did you guys have them before seeing problems?

My Scapes

I have my rainbows since at least 3 to 4 months, I can check for you.

I don't think you should be worried though as all males are doing just great.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Anyway should I be worried about my Bosemani.

I have had two male bosemani's in another tank for about 3 years now with no problems what so ever. Its the dwarf blue neon rainbows that are dropping dead on me. Don't seem to be having too many problems with that at work though. Don't see them coming in dead or anything like that or dropping like flys once we get them. That's probaby why ours are 2.99 a pop and yours are... well a lot more.

How much swing are your tanks running?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Currently, juvenile Dwarf Neons are $20 at my LFS.

My swing is probably from 7 just before lights on down to 6.5 before lights out. All normal, as in nature swings occur as well, but actually I believe they occur the other way around.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think I paid $12.99 a piece for my Bosemani, 2 for $25.

BTW - My ph is around 6.0 at nite with a kh of 2 or 3. I'll have to test tomorrow morning to find swing.



My Scapes

Tetra,
You are about the same as me for the Bosemani but I should probably start shipping dwarf blues to LF. It would probably be cheaper even with shipping.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

It probably would, Wings, I will have to think about that.

Do you folks have females in the store? If so, how do they look different from the males? I would need about 9 females

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

I have to talk ferts again, sorry about that

While suggesting to someone else here to read up on EI and stuff, I saw that he has an EI "light" for the less techical aspects of the Estimative index article on his site. Curious as I am (), I looked into it and found some estimates for dosing a tank of my size. I then compared it to what I am dosing and find that I am rather way off in certain areas (my values in brackets):

100 - 125 Gallon Aquarium
+/- 1 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week (yup - right on)
+/- 1/2 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (1/8 - way off)
+/- 1/2 tsp K2S04 3x a week (not at all - way off)
+/- 1/2 tsp (30ml) Trace 3x a week (60ml TMG - double)
50% weekly water change (yup)

What do you think?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have to talk ferts again, sorry about that

You should be!

To what end. To make your algae go bye-bye or to make the plants grow better? If the plants are growing well which I think they are, why do you keep turning to the ferts as the problem. I've changed so many differenct dosing schemes in my tank. Added fe, double my micro dosing, moved up my no3, moved down my no3 not for algae but to see if I could get more red, etc and it didn't affect algae one bit.




My Scapes

You should be!

- Ok, I am

I don't know for what specific purpose I brought that up, it was just a general observation on how far off I am from the "default" EI values. For example the fact that I dose 1/4 of the P that is set here.

In general, this makes me wonder if what I am doing dosing wise with my tank can actually still be considered "following EI". Or, is EI layed out so broadly that it's only commonality is to have ferts (of all kinds) available to the tank at any point, and as such they are overfed to avoid a short-coming?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

40-60 Gallon Aquariums (figured this was better than the 20-40 gallon)
+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week (yup)
+/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (yup)
+/- 1/8 tsp K2S04 3x a week (1/2 tsp, ouch)
+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week (umm I have been giving them two 2L caps of flourish, whatever that is.
50% weekly water change (Yup)

Plants grow (yup)
Algea (just a little green spot but I think thats cuz my low light plants are not shaded enough)

Edit: I vote for the lader.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Or, is EI layed out so broadly that it's only commonality is to have ferts (of all kinds) available to the tank at any point, and as such they are overfed to avoid a short-coming?

Yeah, kinda of? LF every plant needs it's ferts, light, carbon, but every tank is somwhat different and how it will react to the available light, shade, fish load, plant mass, types of plants. There are too many variables. You need to find the thing that works for your tank. If the plants are growing well forget the ferts that's for fine-tuning. You must look at light,waste,load to balance tank my young grasshopper.

And after Germany wins in the 90th minute!




My Scapes

And after Germany wins in the 90th minute!

At least we win

Yeah, but there is a difference between fine tuning and using 4 times the amount of KH2P04 and 1/2tsp of K2S04 or none at all .

How do I know how well my growth could be if I had other fert dosages?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Best thing to do is to set it and don't mess with it for months. If you want to change something do it little by little and then run that for a while.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Do you folks have females in the store? If so, how do they look different from the males? I would need about 9 females

Females? Less color on body and fins, and a little fater than the more colorful males? Yeah we have a handful of them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

and a little fater than the more colorful males

Fatter? How about depth? Is the female's body as deep as the male's? I perused the web for female Dwarf Neon Rainbows and while most pictures seem to show males, the few that I found that are titled female seem to show the shape of a male with a different fin coloration.

Now, here is once again a shot of 2 of my rainbows, one male and the other supposedly female. Wings, is that how your females look like?

Ingo

EDIT: While the males over the last few months went from the pictured shape to the deeper bodied adult form, the females never changed their shape.

Attached Image:

Female and Male???

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Yup you have it right. Female on the left, male on the right. Females tend to be a little thicker from left to right or right to left also. Biggest differences are fin color and body height.

I am not sure on a complete count from work but we have a good handful of them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

From the pictures on page 91(we going to hit 100 soon?) the tank seems to still be doing nicely. I agree with the statement on EI, that it mostly doesn't matter as long as things are balanced and the plants are getting plenty of ferts. I used up all of my hour( community internet ) just reading the last couple pages in this thread, so the response is short, .

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks for the input Wings and Matty

Matty - While the tank is still doing nicely, it is not doing great. I would like to see some changes soon as by now there is very little design left and lots of sucking up ferts going on.

Which brings me to:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 38

Very little to nothing has happened with this tank during this week. It seems that I see a slow come-back of the BBA now that I stopped the Excel treatment for 2 weeks, I believe.

When I look at this tank these days I am getting very restless. I am aware that I have too many fish in there and also that the scape is nowhere near of what I thought the tank should look like. All is pointing towards a major overhaul yet again, but we all know what that did the last time around. Definately the large wood will have to change, in particular the big stomp part of it has to go and most likely the overall position had to be moved further off center.

Otherwise, growth is just fine, this weekend I had to thin out the Hygro group quite a bit as it got too tall and shaded the right tank side way too much. While trimming I also removed some other plants by accident and had to replant them as well.

Here is the tank last weekend, for comparison purposes:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend, Week 37

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And here it is now. Also, two stems of the Alternanthera had to be trimmed (bottoms disposed) as they reached the surface. While it doesn't look bad now, it doesn't look good either

Attached Image:

Week 38, This Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am also wondering which plants from this tank will go into the new 40G. There is for sure the Blixa and most likely the 5 Anubias Nana Petites that I have, and also maybe the Java Fern (Narrow Leaf) that is pictured here. I hope this plant will not break when I will try to remove it from its lodged position between the wood and the rock behind it. One thing is for sure, it has grown nicely from these 5 little leaves that it originally was.

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On to a few fish pictures. First off - a rainbow. Although it is not that obvious when you look at these fish in the tank directly, the pictures alway make it clear that they truely have puppy eyes that always seem to focus on the camera (counts for tetratech's rainbows as well).

Attached Image:

Male Rainbow

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I spent about half an hour after this weekends water change searching for my female Apisto. I am always worried that the small fish I have somehow get lost or that I cut them in half when I trim the plants. Fortunately, I eventually found her. She has one of these "mostly hiding" phases that may be breeding related.

Anyway, here is a nice sequence on how male and female communicate these days. This shot shows the moment after the female reaches the back of the male during an encounter. I immediately spreads his fins and shows off all his beauty, but given that the black bar under his eye is not showing I assume it is meant to be a friendly encounter.

Attached Image:

Apistos I

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Can you see how his eye seems to be fixed on her?

Next, as he lets his finnage down a little, the female starts to show off, here is is just about to spread them.

Attached Image:

Apistos II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And lastly, he follows her signs and spreads his fins again. Then, he dissapears into the plants, but she is not following him. Instead, she has her own area, somewhere in the Anubias realm, where she seems to hang out.

What does that mean? - I have no idea,

Attached Image:

Apistos III

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least,

In case you wonder (), as I mentioned before, I always have an Anubias (Nana and/or Barteri) in bloom, but most of the time the flowers are not standing out before a dark background and as such don't make for a nice picture. This weekend, I trimmed of 3 flower stems that were pretty much done, I have another one on its way out, one that is coming in, and this one here.

Have fun, as usual input is appreciated,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Anubias Flower

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Everything looking beautiful as usual. But don't those apisto fins look especially fine when spread. Very nice

Cheers
TW