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If you call a trade culling then so be it, but otherwise

Please take no offense, it was a poor word choice, just meant thinning out the populations.

Those are good enough reasons, I was just trying to think of some other ways that didn't invlove thinning them out...

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Back in the saddle!

No problem NowherMan6,

I just feel very guilty when I cull fish, taking its life although the fish is perfectly healthy and what not (not so if it is sick, I have no sorrow in that case).

Trading fish in is very hard for me as well, I never know where they will end up, but I can be almost certain that it will be at best equal to what I have to offer. So, in most cases, they will end up less fortunate than before

That are the times when I try really hard to remove myself from the emotional attachment to the fishies and try my best to see them as goods, but more often then not I am aware that I fool myself, they are my babies

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

- My main reason not to get a second filter is the current. I find my tank to have more than enough current for my fish, actually they mostly like to hang out in the area below the spraybar current, I assume because it is the least strong there.

Current also means food movement. Thus why I caught so many small mouth bass last night....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

That are the times when I try really hard to remove myself from the emotional attachment to the fishies and try my best to see them as goods, but more often then not I am aware that I fool myself, they are my babies

Spend some time in a LFS and you'll lose your emotional attachment very quickly. No offense LFS workers, but with the volume of fish there are so many casualties, etc. in any given day even in the best stores.

Your "too much flow" ponders another point. Eheims are marketed as a superior biological filter because of the size and contact that the water has with the biomedia. If you compare othe brands to the Ehiems their flow rates are much higher for the same tank size, because eheim claims the slower flow brings more contact with the biomedia thus filtering the water better. So if you took two filters and slowed the flow on both of them. You would have double the biomedia compared to the one filter but slower flow thru each. Wouldn't this solve your current problem and also increase filtration.

My Scapes

The 2nd crypt is definately a Willisii, not sure if it's Willisii "Lucens" but could be.

I believe the first one to be Lutea.They get quite big about 8ins.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf for the Plant ID, the Lutea took forever to reach its current height of 4 to 5 inches, so I assume I would have to wait quite a while longer for it to get to 8.

I guess I will have to see when I am willing to shell out another $200 for a second filter for the tank. I promise I will think about it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm unwilling to beleive that the tank has too much flow, sorry LF. If anything your fish are just being lazy couch potatoes, they can definitely handle more flow, and will probably be more fit as well(yes, there's such thing as a "fat" fish, SW tanks are notorious for too little flow, thus creating lazy fish) At the same time, I would think that it would be able to keep up with the bioload, it is a bit overrated for your tank, but I'm not experienced with eheims. I find fluvals expensive.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

just being lazy couch potatoes

Well, you may be right, but the only fish that hang right in the current are the contenders for the "Espei of the Day" award, aka upcoming younger males that use the current as a fitness studio.

Plus - I have a small Rio 50 power head in there to help shooting the CO2 bullets all the way to the other end of the tank.

And about Fluval being , I am surprised you haven't shown us you DIY canister filter yet, Matty. Rigged from an old blender engine, an old coke bottle, and bycicle tires as the hoses

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm unwilling to beleive that the tank has too much flow, sorry LF.

I would have to agree with this.
Plants and hardscape also break up flow so the fish would have plenty of room to move out of the flow, etc.

Actually the 2028 has about 40% more gph than my ecco 2236 and your tank is about 40% bigger, so I think we are in the same ballpark, although your tank is only about 30% bigger from left to right. In my tank I could see the wisteria all the way on the right (opposite side of spraybar) swaying gently in the current.

My Scapes

Rigged from an old blender engine, an old coke bottle, and bycicle tires as the hoses

I've thought about rigging up a cannister, but once you add it all up it's probably pretty similar in price, and less functional.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I've thought about rigging up a cannister

I am not surprised, if there is anyone I know who could do that then it is you, Matty

Tetratech - I can't let go of the second filter topic just yet. If you say that proportionally we are in the same ballpark with our filters, and if I count our fishies (in which case I actually now have less than you), then shouldn't my current one filter setup be sufficient?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tetratech - I can't let go of the second filter topic just yet. If you say that proportionally we are in the same ballpark with our filters, and if I count our fishies (in which case I actually now have less than you), then shouldn't my current one filter setup be sufficient?

LF,
I don't propose to be a scientist, I try to use my gut and keep things simple. If your algae issues are ending then this is a moot point, but yes I believe our filtering capacity to be similiar, but that's where the similiaries end.

For starters you are running more light. I'm not sure exactly what your midday burst is but you have alot of light. IMO it is very difficult to maintain an algae free tank by traditional means with that light, fish load/feeding. Feeding and hight light is one of the most understated problems in planted aquaria. Because not only are you leaving behind uneaten food on the substrate, but you are causing the fish to poop more. It's a double-edged sword that combined with high-light is lethal combination.

If you continue to have algae problems and your plants are growing than something is out of balance and it's not your ferts.


My Scapes

Good points, and it makes a lot of sense, tetratech. Thanks a lot

My midday burst is only 1 hour (3 to 4 PM), my total light duration is 10 hours (11 AM to 9 PM - and keep in mind that the tank is in the basement, ergo has very little natural light coming in beforehand).

Feeding has been reduced, based on your advice, and includes at least one non-feeding day per week.

I am slowly changing the tank around little by little, trying to make it nicer and to create more of a scape. This process may increase the chance of algae temporarily, but we will see how this evolves in the long term.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Slooow moves, baby, slooow moves .

My Scapes

Tetra provided a nice summary of the extra filter idea. Just to add my own two cents: it seems to come down to whether you want sufficient filtration, or extra filtration, and rule of thumb is when it comes to filters, go with too much rather than too little.

If you look around on other plant websites like APC and plantedtank.net, look a the set-ups for larger tanks, especially long ones. There's just about ALWAYS two filters on those things. As tetra said, the idea isn't necessarily strength of flow, but the amount of bio-media available for bacteria to colonize, which in turns allows the removal of the things that cause algae in high light tanks. You could always turn down the flow rates to stop water of swishing around so much and bending the plants, but this would still allow for more fitler colonization. Just an idea... and it is a lot of money to put in for something that may not be necessary.

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Back in the saddle!

Nice follow-up, Nowher, glad someone is one the same page as me.

Just an idea... and it is a lot of money to put in for something that may not be necessary.

To be a true protist buster, I believe in attacking from both ends, so ideally you would want to go with a bigger or another filter and you reduce lighting, fish load/feeding, but any of these would help. The filter isn't necessary, but hey if LF wants stock which most people do than you need the filter.

I'll give too extreme examples with and without much "visible" algae.

Outdoor fish pond:
Closed system with a high waste load and all that light (sun) causes most of these systems to always have unslightly algae problems. Plant mass usually isn't all that great.

Natural Coral Reef:
Ever snokel or scuba thru these. Crystal clear water teeming with life. Same sun, but an endless biofilter from the reef,live rock, etc.

So in order to come closer to nature, one must increase the capacity of the filter so the system is larger. Isn't this the whole idea in saltwater, with hugh sumps, etc.

My Scapes

What if you just add an extra bio area to the filter. PVC in line with your can. filled with bio balls?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

All are very good ideas, thank you very much guys.

I will consider each option carefully (meaning - it will take some time for me to change something).

Now a days I am enjoying the increased swimming activities of my Espei, finally they have some space to move around

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Outdoor fish pond:
Closed system with a high waste load and all that light (sun) causes most of these systems to always have unslightly algae problems. Plant mass usually isn't all that great.

This hits home. Tons of people come in every day asking why they have algae in their ponds. My answer: Light and waste. Then I get this look: . I ask what filter they are using, and they tell me what kind of pump they have for their waterfall. "That's not a filter." Then I get this look: . I show them our setups which are 5Gal. buckets ghetto rigged with bioballs and filter floss. They either walk out with a tetra brand or a good idea in their head. I also ask how many plants they have floating on the surface(light) or something else to block the light. "Oh, I got a couple of these, and a couple of these." I tell them that having 1/2 to 3/4 of the pond covered will help reduce the amount of light that hits the pond, and the extra plant load will help pull out waste. I get this look: . The ones that follow my suggestions then give me this look a few weeks later .

What if you just add an extra bio area to the filter. PVC in line with your can. filled with bio balls?

DIY - I like it

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah,

Me and DIY .

I would spend so much time on research and development that, if I calculate the hours times the money I should be paid for this time, it will run way more expensive then if I simply go out and buy an off the shelf unit.

But maybe I can contract Matty to rigg me one

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

WOW

I just came back from the Big Al's website and to my surprise I cannot find Tropica Master Grow there anymore?

What is going on, am I just not able to find it?

If it isn't sold anymore (and I need a BIG bottle) what is a feasible replacment? They have 2 liter bottles of Seachem Flourish, would that be the equivalent, or i Flourish Trace missing in that equation?

Any help would be appreciated,

Ingo

EDIT: They also have 2 liter and 4 liter bottles of Flourish Trace, should I go for both together (Flourish and Flourish Trace)?

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I just came back from the Big Al's website and to my surprise I cannot find Tropica Master Grow there anymore?

LF,
You have to call them. They are overhauling their website and it's all screwed up. I have all these VIP points and it's not showing up

My Scapes

Aih

I have thousands of points as well, and would like to add more. I guess if I call them then I would not get the points for this order, right (I am also buying a AC 50 filter for my neighbor, I can't stand his catridge throw-out filter for his 10G)?

Thanks so far tetratech,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have thousands of points as well, and would like to add more. I guess if I call them then I would not get the points for this order, right (I am also buying a AC 50 filter for my neighbor, I can't stand his catridge throw-out filter for his 10G)?

They might accomdate you on the points if you call.

BTW - I stopped buying set catridges for my filters. I have an AC 20 on my 12g and I have some efisubstrate in a bag and the sponge that comes with the filter, so I never have to replace anything.


My Scapes

And I use only sponges (2 on top of each other) in my AC50 and AC70.

But, to get back on topic, let us assume they don't have TMG anymore, is Flourish AND Flourish Trace its replacement that I should use? And if so, in what proportions (50/50 or 25/75 or what)?

Thanks,

I will wait for the answer before I call,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

But, to get back on topic, let us assume they don't have TMG anymore, is Flourish AND Flourish Trace its replacement that I should use? And if so, in what proportions (50/50 or 25/75 or what)?

I could only speak from my own experience, but I don't use trace anymore, I just use Flourish 3 times weekly. I haven't used Flourish potassium, trace as long as I could remember and I'm not really using Flourish Iron anymore either.

My Scapes

Boah,

there is actually a thread on APC with regards to Tropica and the TMG. Supposedly they have a marketing change and do all kinds of stuff.

Just type Tropica Master Grow in the search at APC and then select the ""Tropica Plant Nutrition+ Liquid" - new Tropica products availability?" thread.

Guess I am out of luck

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yup,

So I called Big Al and guess what:

They do not have TMG per se anymore, instead they are getting this week the whole new line of Tropica plant care products.

I had a very nice and knowledged gentleman on the phone, he informed me that instead of one mix there are now 15 or so components that one would have to buy (I guess he included the macros) .

It is not on the website yet as not all products have been shipped from Tropica just yet, but keep your eyes open - it should be there within this week.

I bought TMG for its simplicity, what are they thinking!!!!

I guess I will go with a smaller bottle of Flourish for the time being until we know more about this Tropica Attack.

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I bought TMG for its simplicity, what are they thinking!!!!

Then I think you'll be fine with the Flourish (It's got FE in it) I havent seen any difficienies and my Rotala has nice red hues to it.

I'd like to say a small pray, for all of us living thru this heatwave that we don't lose power. My unheated swimming pool is reading 90F.



My Scapes

Can someone clarify for me: what exactly was Tropica master grow? Was is a combination of macros and micros? Just Micros and traces? Did it contain Ca and Mg?

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Back in the saddle!

By Flourish you mean the Seachem Flourish right? It's funny that this came up as I was asking a similar question in my 25 log.

As for the heat... well not much sympathy here! After spending my whole life in Sunny Central Florida and now Houston that is pretty much the norm in the summer time. It is kind of funny that you all are pretty much hotter than us right now though.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick - Sure, tell us what softies we are, but for notherners like us this is pretty hot, plus about 5000% humidity ().

I used TMG for my micros, and I think this is what it was mostly composed of. I don't even know the exact content, I believed Bensaf and Untitled that it was good as they introduced me to fertilizers by telling me I always have to carry a bottle of it around, no matter where I go.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

TMG is a micro fert. The best for me. It seems to give plants a sheen that others are lacking. Flourish is good too. No need for the Trace if using the regular Flourish.

The change in the Tropica products is a bit confusing but no means does it mean you need a lot of bottles to replace TMG.

A bit of background - Tropica was bought out about a year or so back. There is a new CEO. This new range is his idea it would seem.

While I would agree with the idea of the new products - which are basically a response to the hobby becoming more sophiscated and high tech, the insistance on producing products that "contain no nitrate or phosphate" is now old hat - the name change is a marketing disaster IMO.

Basically TMG will still be the same product but with a new name Aqua something or other.Still a micro fert. The other products are a macro fert with N+P, a potassium fert, a root tab and I think an Iron only fert. Pretty much like the Seachem range. If you are using the dry chems you'd still only need the micro fert. The other are a replacement for the dry chems which can be pretty hard to get in some parts (especially Europe), after all KNO3 can be used in bomb making, it was certainly an old favorite of the IRA before Cemtex was so easy to get hold of.

Check the Tropica website for more info.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks for the info Bensaf

I am mostly with you on the marketing blunder of this move. I also assume that I will have to read up more on these new products, all I can say so far is that the guy on the phone from Big Al's said that there is not ONE product that will replace TMG, but multiple that need to be used in combination. I easily imagined that the new series will include a "most micros in one shot" product, but also that Iron would be excluded from this product and has to be bought seperately. Besides that there may be other micros (mostly calcium and magnesium) that I could see in individual products.

Guess we will find out soon enough.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Sorry to hear that your Micro Fert is on its way out. Change really sucks sometimes! It seems that people are always out there trying to make a buck and that makes our lives a pain in the butt.

I have been using Flourish in my tank with Flourish Iron. Flourish has low % of your Macros and all the micros including iron. The only reason I am using Iron on top of reg. Flourish is an expermental thing. I am finding that my crypts are much more red in color with it. Other than that I don't see any real change.

Hoped that helped!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Sure did help Wings,

The more people confirm tetratech's usage the more reliable the information becomes (at least if the right people confirm it).

All we will have to do now is to find a Guinea Pig to test out the new Tropica stuff

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The more people confirm tetratech's usage the more reliable the information becomes (at least if the right people confirm it).

What me and my exciting "still life" tank isn't proof enough.

Remember you also have alot of goodies in your eco. Well 3 out 4 ain't bad. I think that's a song, or no that's 2 out of 3

My Scapes

Come on Tetratech,

Don't get too angry at us for talking about your Still Life.

Without a doubt is your tank in much better shape than my 125, in any aspect (well, I may have closed in on the proper fish count with the latest trade though). We bring this up because there is nothing else to bicker about

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All we will have to do now is to find a Guinea Pig to test out the new Tropica stuff

NOT IT!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Flourish is good too. No need for the Trace if using the regular Flourish.

For traces, I've been using Flourish Trace - but should I be using regular Flourish instead?

Cheers
TW

Trace
Flourish

I think that Flourish has everything that Trace has and more. I haven't look really super close at it though. Personaly I would do Regular Flourish for your micros. For no other reason than the iron. Though I think we get quite a bit of micros from our WC's. Thats just me though and my two cents.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

All we will have to do now is to find a Guinea Pig to test out the new Tropica stuff

If I can get hold of it I will definately be trying it. I have a lot of faith in Tropica. Anybody who's tried their plants will tell you that. The quality is miles ahead of anything else. My Anubias and Crypt Spiralis came from Tropica - stunning quality.

Micros are very hard to get hold of here. I'm on my last dose of TMG (which I had to pick up in S'pore). There's is nobody selling TMG here anymore and only 1 place I know selling Flourish but it's in the middle of Chinatown and a bugger to get to. All I have at the moment is some unknown S'pore brand.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

So I guess there is no way that you would get this stuff right away, except if you would take a "short" trip to Singapore over the weekend .

I have a while to go (maybe two months at least) before I will be in crisis mode again, at least when it concerns micros, otherwise I am in crisis mode all the time anyway .

I ordered 2 liters of flourish and will see how it works out. I would assume that regular dosage volumes, based on Seachem instructions, is sufficient, right?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I would assume that regular dosage volumes, based on Seachem instructions, is sufficient, right

That's pretty much what I do, 3 times weekly.

My Scapes

So that is what I will do then as well, as soon as my TMG is totally empty (I may have about 2 to 3 weeks of stuff left).

Thanks tetratech,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think the bottle says 1 or 2 times per week, so I'm going alittle over. Following Master Hodge Podge

BTW - I just ran out of my first container of Stump Remover (NO3) since I started the tank. It was a 16oz (454grams) container of powdered (no3)

My Scapes

tetra, are you going to switch to greg watson KNO3? I like the fact that it's much more powdery than Green Light (which I have), seems to dissolve better right in the WC.

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Back in the saddle!

tetra, are you going to switch to greg watson KNO3? I like the fact that it's much more powdery than Green Light (which I have), seems to dissolve better right in the WC.

I actually bought two containers when I first purchased at Lowes. So I have a full 16oz to go. Your right it's a larger grain size then the more powdery stuff. I basically take a plastic cup scoop some tank water into it. Pour in the no3 and po4, stir and pour it into the tank.

My Scapes

So I don't know if it is true around your neck of the woods but Lowes doesn't have Green Light Stump Remover any more. I have checked both stores in my area and nothing. They have another stump remover but it doesn't say what it is inside! GRR! I think I will be making a greg W. order sometime in the next couple of months. I am down to about 1/2 my contaner for Green Light.

In terms of Flourish I am doing 1 capful of Reg. Flourish (2L cap) and 1 cap of the Iron (small cap). This I do 3 times a week.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks,

I will try to get by without adding additional Iron, as I didn't purchase any

Then we have to manage to get Bensaf some of the new Tropica products so he can try them out for us.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 45

Not too much to say at all this week, the tank is growing and the ferts are flowing

Overall, not too much has happened, most concerned the end of the TMG era as Tropica is now selling new products that are not yet available. So I will try Flourish for a while, I will let you know when the TMG stock I have is depleted.

Strangely, I still see maybe 5 to 10 hyro leaves floating every week. This started after the power outagae over two weeks ago and had never happened before. Any ideas?

Here is the tank last weekend (comparison):

Attached Image:

Last Week

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the tank now this weekend after the water change. I have to remember to turn off the light in the 40G as its reflection always creates a line in this tank when taking a picture, sorry about that.

The Star Grass is just becoming visible again, I find the growth rather slow these days. It may also be related to the fact that I had to cut them so short after the power outage.

Attached Image:

Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is a shot of the top part at low tide, during water change.

I like how the wood, anubias, and Alternanthera peek out of the water. Maybe I should reduce the water level permanently to this height and make it a palladium. But I guess that means that I have to get rid of even more fishies.

And this is it for this week, nothing more to show.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Top Part

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/detected.php?page=&pass=
Ok the link only goes to the main page. Go to the gallory, planted tanks and it is #18.

This is probably one of my favorite tanks.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

For me #15 is an abosolute masterpiece. A great layout for a big tank. It's a tank that anybody with the vision could grow. Fairly low maintenance which is important for big tanks. It's very similar to a tank by Luis Navarro which is just slightly better.
I get the sense this was a look Ingo was originally aiming for but it got off track.

#26 is also a nice layout for a big tank but a lot more work.

While we're at it take a look a pics #6 thru 8. This is what I envisioned the 40gal breeder to look like. Very simple but clever design.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

So for LF to get the effect of 5-8 he would have to use Nana and nana pittea or whatever it is.

I think he was really on the right track but then his plants drowned the hard scape.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks guys, I will have to take a closer look at the suggested numbers, but I am pretty sure that I had seen the one for the 40 before, and yes - I tried something like that.

But I assume that is what seperates me from Jeff Senske.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

But I assume that is what seperates me from Jeff Senske.

Ingo don't sell yourself short. Nothing against Jeff S he is very talented at what he does. But he does this for a living and I'm sure has a large inventory of wood, plants, rocks etc to choose from to make the layout look just right. It's becuase of this reason in my opinion why it's very hard to judge aquascaping contests, etc on an equal playing field. I know they have budget scaping contests as well, but it's still difficult.

My Scapes

I'm sure has a large inventory of wood, plants, rocks etc to choose from to make the layout look just right.

This is true to a large extent. A lot of us start with a vision in our head - then out out to get the wood, rocks and plants and then can't find what we're looking for and end up "comprimising".Having high quality materials readily at hand is a huge bonus.

The opposite can be true also, some just pick up a pile of stuff and then try to make a 'scape out of whatever is at hand. That rarely works.

But desipte all that I do believe certain people just have a "gift" for this thing - an eye. If you or I had access to the same materials that some of these guys have are you still confident you could do as good a job? I'm not

Some seem to have the ability to see how the tank is going to look 6 months down the line and allow for that (but that's probably mostly experience and observation of plants). Self control (of which I'm sorely lacking) is a necessity. An eye for detail and balance.

Look at the rocks in the pic I mentioned as a masterpiece, there's a lot of them, yet I can't find one in the'scape that's in the wrong place or the wrong size. They all look perfect and natural as if they've always been there. The fact that the guy may have had to choose those rocks from hundreds he had on hand, to me, makes the achievment in the 'scape more admirable rather then less !

Remember the old story? If you leave enough monkeys alone in a room with a typewriter in time maybe one of them will do a Shakespeare. Maybe if you left us in a room with a tank and a pile of ADA kit, rocks, wood and plants , maybe one of us would pull of a tank to rival Senske or Amano.
Maybe. To my mind a big maybe. Fair dues to these guys, they have a genuine sense of creativity. They're arists we're merely artisans.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I certainly couldn't guarantee how my creations would fair, but I could tell you that I'd rather have a closet of DW, rocks and plants to choose from than none at all. Look how good Imelda Marcus looked with all those shoes to match her outfits.

I've tried to make the most out of crappy DW, a few stem plant species and a whole lot of weeds (Wisteria).
Yes some of us have an eye for this others do not. I think it's easier to make a rock front look natural when you have more to choose from (statisically there is a greater likelihood that you'll fine ones that achieve harmony) In addtion to inventory Jeff S also has the advantage of multiple canvases to practice what works and what doesn't. When you do somthing hundreds of times you do tend to work out the kinks. Most people do get better when you get more touches.

I'll end as I began, I'm not taking anything away from Jeff S he obviously has alot of talent, but I would still rather be able to work with all his toys, both in and out of the tank as opposed to my sorry little collection of sticks and stones.

My Scapes

No doubt does availablitlity of high quality and quantity of scaping material and plants (and fancy ADA soil, one may add) have something to do with the outcome of a planted tank design.

And also, no doubt does talent and experience play a major role in the scaping process.

Given that I have None-Of-The-Above, my tank is what it is. Pretty good for an average dude, but nothing more.

On the other hand, exactly this is what gives me the option to constantly fiddle with it. To be honest, an perfect tank frightens me as I would not know what to do with it. In some stages of tetratech's tanks (both) I am looking at the pictures and think to myself "and what now".

I, for one thing, fell in love with the ability to change things around all the time, called a tank redo "Ingo Style". The most pleasing of all tanks to change is the 20G, as a whole redo takes me as long as a regular water change and trimming on the 125G.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi there all,

10 days with no entries in my log, neither by me nor anybody else.

Anyway, I have been ultra busy at work, at the same time I had friends over from Germany for a few days, and then I went on vacation and replaced the view into my tanks (which, btw, are going down the drain, the 125 is now BBA paradise, but more maybe tomorrow or Sunday about that).

I just came back from the trip and thought to let you know that I am still around. Gotta go and unpack now, till later,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Last Week's Highlight

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Glad to see you're back. Sorry about the tanks - you didn't go crazy and start dumping SW fish into your FW tanks now did you?

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Back in the saddle!

No, I did not add salt to the freshwater tanks, although it wouldn't make much difference in the 125 anyway these days, inconsistent fertilization and a lack of attention have done quite some damage.

But glad to see that you haven't lost your humor, makes me feel good.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo, Midnight Madness is coming up at ABS. It's going to be my first time as a customer. Just wondering if you planned on attending. I'd like to catch up!

Mike,

I guess Midnight Madness is in a week, right? I will have to think about it, there is really nothing at the moment that I would need, except maybe a huge load of plants for this tank, which I am sure they don't have.

Can you think of something that would make it worthwhile standing in line forever?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

...you mean aside from keeping me company?

Ummm, I really don't know. I don't really want anything either. I'm going to pick up a bag of Eco Complete and see if I can win some free stuff. If I have to wait in line I'll be pissed!

Welcome back LF, hope your visitors & holiday gave you some great chill out time.

Anyway, what's the story with the clown You can't just put a pic up without telling us what it all means. Is there soon to be darkside log for LF. BTW, it's a nice clown.

Cheers
TW

was wondering why you hadnt posted ingo, hope you had fun on holidays







one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen , thats all you need.

OH TOLEEDY!

w00! a 125 SW reef tank. Nice jorb LF!/:'

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Mike - If I go then I may not get there before 1 AM, that's usually when the line gets shorter. How much do you think the Eco will go for?

Robyn and Matty - Yeah right, I got a 125G reef tank . Actually, I am currently in the middle of editing about 30 pictures of fishies from an aquarium that I visited, the best shots out of 200 that I made. I will post most of them in the marine section and some in the general freshwater, once editing is completed. I personally am so not ready for any salt tank, no way such an entity will enter the Little_Fish houseold any time soon.

Dan - Glad to see that you are peaking in once in a while

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I didn't really think you'd started a reef tank, just wanted to know the meaning of the clown pic.

I agree too, that I am soo not ready for a reef tank either, but that's what hubby has started up & my birthday present to him was one year's maintenance on his tank - I just didn't know it was going to be a reef

Cheers
TW

my birthday present to him was one year's maintenance on his tank

- Even if it would have been a planted freshwater tank, that is a very generous present that you gave there.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Welcome back Ingo. Looking forward to seeing the new pictures. This place sure does slow down though when the LF isn't posting.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

So where did you go LF!?!?!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Rick - btw, haven't seen any new shots or stories about your tanks lately either

Wings - I was just at the end of Long Island, still in the state of New York.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 46 AND 47

The last two weeks were marked by a busy work schedule and vacation, and on top of it a declining tank. At least part of that decline can be directly attributed by the lack of frequent fertilization over that time period.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend - Week 46

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

When I came home from the trip I found that the BBA has greatly increased, something that tetratech usually attributes to a lack of CO2. In my case, that was the only stable thing this tank received (besides light).

So this week's maintenance focussed on removing dead or heavily infested plant tissue, and it also sees the start of another round of Excel treatment to control the BBA. The isoetes lacustris had been so badly infested that I had to remove it completely.

When one looks at the tank now with regards to scaping, it is a mess. There is no scape, just plants. I am the least happy with this tank ever since I set it up 47 weeks ago. I simply cannot invision how this should continue, except with another major overhaul, and we all know what that means

Here is the tank this week:

Attached Image:

This Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All I can show now are a few BBA shots, they sprout on hardware, wood, and plants (mostly on leaves that are not growing fast, like anubias and isoetes, as well as dying leaves).

First one from the top of the tank, the highest branch near the light:

Attached Image:

BBA I

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is another one on some driftwood, but much further down in the tank and in a much darker section. Oh, btw, I believe I do not have a short high light period, as plants low to the bottom of the tank wither away, like most of my tenellus.

Attached Image:

BBA II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And this is how the BBA looks when anchored on an Anubias leaf, I can clearly see why it contains the word beard in its name as it collects itself on the edges of the leaves.

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

BBA III

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am really sorry your tank is filling up with BBA again. I would try to combat it with two things.

1. Excel to the extreme
2. Lighting break

In my tank for the past month or so I have been doing the lighting break to control the GSA. It seems to be working thus far with no signs of plant problems.

What I am doing is run the light for 5-6 hours then take a 2 hour break then back with another 5-6 hours of light. Now don't get my wrong I do have some algae but it has really really slowed down. Aglae needs long periods of light to photosynthesize while the plants can turn it on and off quickly. My plants do not pearl as much as they used to but they are still growing well. Pearling is not really a sign of growth as we have talked about before.

That's just my $0.02



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings,

I knew about the light midday break ever since I started in this hobby, and I actually used it immediately on my first tank (the 29). I kept it like that for a few months before I switched to a non-break cycle and I had seen no difference from before and after.

The reasons could be related to the fact that it was a medium light / low tech tank, but there is also a chance that it doesn't work as simple as that. I know way too little about algae to understand if a break after 4 to 5 hours of lights-on would actually harm them, or hinder their growth. Could it be that you see less algae because your overall light period has been shortened as well?

I will have to read up on that topic again, I guess. Right now I cannot recall any statement from the famous planters that suggests such a method.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The book it got the idea from is:

Encyclopedia of Aquarium plants by Peter Hiscock.

Basicly what it says is what I have already said. Aglae can not photosynthesize without long lighting periods but the plants can. It might be worth trying just to see in your high tech tank. Seems to be working for me.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

thanks for the info, I think I have this book

If I am not mistaken then this is the same book that suggests the use of an UGF, right?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

When one looks at the tank now with regards to scaping, it is a mess. There is no scape, just plants. I am the least happy with this tank ever since I set it up 47 weeks ago. I simply cannot invision how this should continue, except with another major overhaul, and we all know what that means

Hey LF, I'm sorry you feel this way. I know exactly how you feel though, because that's how I felt about my 46 before I tore it down. You just feel like you have no vision, that it's so out of whack you don't know where to take it.

And keep in mind, I like the way your tank looks, at least from afar. Plants are healthy as are the fish. My old 46 looked that way too, but the blemishes are there when you look at it up close.

It's a real personal thing, these tanks. I don't want to tell you do this or do that. The thing that helped me was tearing down the tank and making plans to start over, and taking it reeeal slow and planning.

And keep in mind, even Amano says that sometimes a tank's lifespan is only a year, that sometimes the vitality of the stems runs out and the look becomes so muddled you have to start over. It wouldn't be a failure, it's just a learning experience. The thing that would make it difficult with this tank is that the plants in there already are infected with algae, so would have to be discarded. It's a big financial commitment to start over. It's also an opportunity to do things from the get go that you wish you'd done earlier.

Sorry, I hate being the pessimist You've got to do what you think is best, but if you're going to do it over, go all out and start anew.

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6,

I knew you would understand

The biggest problem with starting anew would be that I cannot really take it slow then either. I have about 50 fish to house right away

If I didn't have any fish, or only so many that I could move them to the other tanks for the time being, I would rip that sucker apart in minutes

Ingo

EDIT: This was my 5000th post

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Congrats LF on the 5000th post! Rock on!

I have not found anything about UGF in this book. You might be thinking of the Encyclopedia of Aquarium Fish book.

Nowher has some good points but it is very hard being you have so many fish. Plus it is hard to let go of what you have and start over on something new.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

Albeit it is hard to let go of things, but when it comes to plants, decoration, and substrate though I have no hesitation to do. Why else would there be the term "Tank Redo - Little_Fish Style", or something like that, here on FP .

If it wasn't for the upsetting of the balance inside the tank, I probably would do these things once every other month. This way, I could make 24 different tanks out of the 4 that I have within the course of a year

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah I understand what you are saying. Right now I try to keep my planted tank stable. I pulled up my hygro moster last night to try to get the loaches out (plus it needed a bottem trimming). What a mess! I couldn't comprehend doing a LF change.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I though I share with you what Excel can do for the algae.

This is a comparison shot after 3 days of Excelt treatment of 50ml per day. As you can see, the algae turned reddish, a sign that it is dying.

Unfortunately, not all BBA bastions in the tank look like this yet, others range from a brownish to spotted red color to not changed at all. But I will get them eventually.

Attached Image:

Top Is Before --- Bottom After 3 Days

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And, while I was taking the pictures, my fishies of course thought that I will feed them, so they collect in the top left corner of the tank for the feast. In particular the Apistos, Rainbows, and Pearls.

After I didn't feed for a few minutes, although I was in front of the tank, the male Apisto got a little ticked off and let me know that he is expecting something.



Attached Image:

Give Me Food

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi LF

Interested to see the excel BBA shots. As you know, I started the treatment in the 23.7G log last night. Hope it works for us both

I love your male, he's very pretty. If only I had more tanks, I want a pair just like yours or tretratech's.

Cheers
TW

If only I had more tanks

Oh oh, this is usually the first step towards a new tank

Tetratech's Apsitos are nice, I agree. But mine are rarer , or do you know someone else here with viejita IIs

Anyway, its all just fun and games

Yeah, keep us posted how that Excel treatment is working out. I remember that the first time I did it the results showed rather quickly. The next time it had almost no effect, I don't know why.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh oh, this is usually the first step towards a new tank

No chance. At this stage, I'm banned from going ahead with my 4ft - it's empty in the garage & I had to shut down my little hospital tank

Apistos can be hard to find here. There are a few LFS that stock them though. Lots of africans, bolivians & ram's, they're pretty common. I can find Cac's, tetratech's (too lazy to find name), as well as some others, but my Bitaeniata was a rarer find & I haven't seen any viejita IIs. To get a viejita IIs, I'd probably need to pre order & wait ages (like I did for the dehane - & you know I gave up there). For some reason, I don't think there's enough demand for them. But maybe if they were in more LFS, that would create more demand

Cheers
TW

LF,

Are you dosing Excel to the whole take or trying to hit different infected spots?

If you go by a medical store you can pick up syringes. Not the kind with the needles but with the bigger openings. The ones we have at my store an air line hose fits great. With this you can give the algae a direct hit. Works swell!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I am treating the entire tank as I have BBA all over the place and not only in one spot.

Btw, I did some focussed Excel treatment on my Xmas moss in the 29, with the consequence that some of the moss died within a week (see log)

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
What is your current co2 level? When did you stablize the co2 (tubing issue)? I would push the co2 as far as you can? I have an advantage because I'm around my tank more than you and I could monitor better. I notice if the fish look alittle funky toward the evening, I just nudge my spraybar above the waterline to get some agitation.

BBA definitely got worse when the co2 was erratic. Excel is just not a good long-term solution and it obviously has negative effects on some plants.


My Scapes

tetratech,

Thanks for the advice, although I never had CO2 tubing issues in this tank (I know it gets confusing on which tank has what issue), that was the 40G.

I have no idea what the CO2 level in this tank is, but I assume it is pretty good as a constant bubbling, hacked into small pieces by a powerhead, is pushed through the tank all day long. I can go and measure though, just in case.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh, yeah. Me bad , but same difference. In the same way excel seems to destroy some algae, high co2 has a similar effect on it's inability to grow. I could usually tell by my hardscape if I'm going to have bba issues. The main rock gets covered if the co2 is too low, but the main rock now has been clear for about a month with constant high co2.

My Scapes

Tetra,
How high do you think your CO2 is? The last time I checked mine I was well over 30ppm and I am not having any major algae issues.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,
So hard to tell by the numbers, but my ph is off the scale low (under 6 by afternoon and my kh is steady at 2.



My Scapes

The last time I checked mine I was at around 6.8 at night and 7.2 in the morning with a KH of 16. That gives me a range of aboutg 78ppm at night to 30ppm in the morning. Probably a little high but I have never seen a fish gasping that the top for air.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Weekly Tank Update - Week 48

This week was the first in three weeks that saw a frequent use of fertilizers again, plus a daily shot of Flourish Excel to combat the BBA. Both seem to have helped in improving the tanks overall health.

Here is the tank shot from last week, for comparison:

Attached Image:

Last Week

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the tank now this weekend after some changes.

A purchase of some Bolbitis for the 40G meant that the Barteri from that tank had to go. Too nice to be thrown out, and too big for any of my other tanks, I added it to this one. I removed the Red Wendtii from the left side, and also disposed of the Ludwigia that was there. The whole space was then taken up by the Barteri.

The Alternanthera in that group had been moved to the back left corner, it got too tall for the spot where it was. Also, two Hygro stems sitting in front of the Star Grass had been removed.

Attached Image:

Tank Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As you may have noticed the Star Grass and the Hygro on the right had been growing nicely during the last week.

Here is a close-up of the Anubias group on the left side of the tank. The whole section that rised on the left side is only the one Barteri Mother Plant from the 40G.

Attached Image:

Anubias Group

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the Narrow Laaf Java Fern, a plant that I soon will have to do something about. It is getting too big for its current position and may need either trimming or placement somewhere else in the tank. I have some thoughts, but maybe you folks should give me your ideas on what to do with it first.

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Might try it back between the two large anubias. I don't know if there is room back there and if it will fit, but it might look nice there. Otherwise you could cut it up a bit and stick it on either side of the star grass. It just looks too similar to the hygro on the right to put it anywhere over there.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

My two cents:

1.Take the center push some rocks in their and make it more mound like.
2.Add anubias in and around mound.
3.Sweep stargrass around to interact with some of the other plants
4.Split the fern and divide on either said of mound and try to position some wood between it and the hygro.



My Scapes

Thanks for the suggestions on what to do with the tank next. I also think that I probably will have to do something with the center group, and I fear it means that I would have to take out the wood and either chop it up or at least reposition it.

I will have to think about it for a while.

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK,

Here are some news with regards to this tank. I finally caved in and ordered a second filter for the tank, an Eheim 2026. This is the one I have on the 40G, and there I have it run on a slow mode. I am sure it will be more than sufficient for this tank, given that I already have a 2028 on it.

I assume it will arrive sometime next week, so I will do some changes the following weekend.

Let me see if I remember that right: place them on opposite ends of the tank, spray across the top towards the middle, maybe reduce flow on both to avoid hurricane conditions in the tank.

Ingo

Edit: oh, I just now realized that I am a contributer as well, nice

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Congratulations on now being a contributer /:'

Cheers
TW

I finally caved in and ordered a second filter for the tank, an Eheim 2026. This is the one I have on the 40G, and there I have it run on a slow mode. I am sure it will be more than sufficient for this tank, given that I already have a 2028 on it.

I think that's a really good move. Yeah you could have the spray bars on the left and right side glass and have the co2 meet in the middle, swoooooosh

BTW - Congrats! on being a contributor. First TFH and now FishProfile, what's next? BTW - What did you contribute?


My Scapes

I agree, good call on the filter. You may not see immediate results but in the long run it's definetely a good move...

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Back in the saddle!

Let's go back to basics. The end-product of the nitrogen cycle is no3, right?

My Scapes

What did you contribute?

Quite a few profile changes here and there, mostly on the Espei and Viejita, plus loads of pictures from fishies.

And what's next - retirement

The end-product of the nitrogen cycle is no3, right? - Right

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The end-product of the nitrogen cycle is no3, right? - Right

O.K. So the bacteria are releasing no3 into the water column?

My Scapes

Among other things, like CO2(use O2 as fuel, like us) and possibly other waste products, I'm not sure.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

So the bacteria are releasing no3 into the water column?

Yes - sounds about right

Where are we going with this? Should I add less KNO3?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Where are we going with this? Should I add less KNO3?

O.K. we are still on track, after Matty's "rude" interuption .

So if the bacteria are consistently releasing NO3 in the water then would there be more NO3 as you increase biological filtration?


My Scapes

then would there be more NO3 as you increase biological filtration?

Hm, that is a trick question

Answer:

a) Yes: In general, more bio filter = more NO3
b) No: As the tank should have enough bacteria to convert all NO2 to NO3 already, with or without the second filter.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Almost there. Does the respiration of the bacteria depend on how much nh3,no2 there is in the water. In other words does a smaller bacteria colony produce more no3 in a tank with more waste then a bigger bacterial colony in a tank with less waste?

My Scapes

does a smaller bacteria colony produce more no3 in a tank with more waste then a bigger bacterial colony in a tank with less waste?

The question is not possible, as the size of the bacteria colony directly depends on the amount of waste.

Less waste = less bacteria

As such, there can never be less bacteria and more waste, except during a brief period where the colony needs to grow while more waste is produced.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The question is not possible, as the size of the bacteria colony directly depends on the amount of waste.

Well if that was the case, wouldn't there always be enough biological filtration to deal with any amount of waste. It would simply increase on the substrate, media, glass, rocks, etc.... and would make the point of adding more capacity mute.

My Scapes

Well,

Then I would rather see the original question rephrased to something like this:

"If the bacteria colony that is available in a tank is not large enough for the waste produced, will there be more NO3 than if the colony would be large enough?"

In this case, the answer would be no, as less bacteria produce less NO3.

In any case, I would like to raise an additional question:

"If plants prefer Ammonia over NO3, wouldn't plants suck of the Ammonia before the bacteria colony can convert it to NO2 and then to NO3?"

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

In this case, the answer would be no, as less bacteria produces less NO3

O.K. So if that's true as you add bio capacity the more NO3 you have being produced in the tank to convert nh3. So if that's the case how would adding NO3 cause Algae?

My Scapes

So if that's the case how would adding NO3 cause Algae?

Well, the only way I could think of why this would happen is if other macros or elements of the micros are out of sink, aka limiting factors.

But - and only if another thing we once concluded is true - why would I not have enough biofilter inside the tank as it is given that 2 days of power outage did not seem to cause any issues in the tank?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

There is another dimension to the problem you guys aren't thinking about. Your filter can only bring so much ammonia per unit of TIME to your biofilter. It's very possible that your bacteria population is quite large enough to reduce all the ammonia that is brought to it into nitrate. However, your filter might not be bringing all the ammonia to your bacteria. That's the reason for another filter, not that there isn't enough substrate for bacteria, but that the filter isn't quite doing the job. You are increasint the turnover RATE.

"If plants prefer Ammonia over NO3, wouldn't plants suck of the Ammonia before the bacteria colony can convert it to NO2 and then to NO3?"

No, because plants will use a VERY small amount of ammonia. Actual ammonia is probably like a treat that is few and far between, even in your tank, just trace amounts are causing the problem. They will still get the majority of their N from nitrate.

But - and only if another thing we once concluded is true - why would I not have enough biofilter inside the tank as it is given that 2 days of power outage did not seem to cause any issues in the tank?

I thought there was an increased amount of algae since then even though the plants picked up reasonable quick? I would say that you weren't feeding and the fish probably weren't producing as much waste as normal, and the bacteria in the tank was enough to handle the situation.....for the most part. Still there were probably trace amounts of ammonia left over from the problem that your filter is having a hard time catching up with, and that's what caused the algae.

Does the respiration of the bacteria depend on how much nh3,no2 there is in the water.

Yes, when you are talking about the entire colony, not the individual. Meaning there is less respiration when there is less ammonia and nitrite because there is a smaller population of bacteria, not because each bacteria is doing less.

In other words does a smaller bacteria colony produce more no3 in a tank with more waste then a bigger bacterial colony in a tank with less waste?

My answer to this: is if Ingo does have trace amounts of NH3/4 in his tank then adding another filter will increase the amount nitrate in the tank. Not so much because of a much greater number of bacteria, but because of an increased RATE at which ammonia is being rbought to the bacteria. With another filter, trace ammonia and nitrite get to the filters faster so they can break it down faster.

That's my hypothesis anyways. Or rude interruption as others might call it

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Well I could check, but I thought the general census was that two days really isn't enough time to see any significant changes. The reason I started the thread was to see reaction to no3 levels caused by bacteria. If no3 causes algae then their is a difference between the no3 we ad and the organic no3 produced.

My Scapes

Tetratech, I think you are trying to undercut the entire organic chemistry field. Some people might not like that.

But really the only difference is the source. To us, to plants, to fish, and of course the algae, NO3 is NO3(which KNO3 is once it's in solution).

EDIT: I think this is the part where bensaf comes in and smacks us around a bit and tells us what really causes algae.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

Didn't see your thread when I posted. Anyway that's more like it. I was just kinda building up to something before and you didn't follow suit. It's that DIY in you.

Anyway I agree with much of what you said, but in a big tank isn't he majority of the biofilter in the tank itself and not for example in the canister. I don't know the biofilter capacity of gravel, plants vs the for example eheim efhisubstrate. By the way eco is lava rock and supposely had a pretty good bio capacity in it's own right?

My Scapes